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Forum Post: Egypt controlled by the Muslim brotherhood? We have nothing to fear except ->

Posted 3 years ago on July 1, 2012, 6:19 p.m. EST by ericweiss (575)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Radical Islamist rebels in northern Mali smashed four more tombs of ancient Muslim saints in Timbuktu on Sunday as the International Criminal Court warned their campaign of destruction was a war crime.
The hardline Islamists who seized control of Timbuktu along with the rest of northern Mali three months ago, consider the shrines to be idolatrous and have wrecked seven tombs in two days. Mali's government and the international community have expressed horror and outrage at the destruction of cultural treasures in the fabled city, an ancient desert crossroads and centre of learning known as the "City of 333 Saints".
"My message to those involved in these criminal acts is clear: stop the destruction of the religious buildings now," ICC Chief Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda told AFP in an interview in Dakar.
"This is a war crime which my office has authority to fully investigate." She said that Mali was signatory to the Rome Statute which established the ICC, which states in Article 8 that deliberate attacks against undefended civilian buildings which are not military objectives are a war crime.
"This includes Islamic attacks against historical monuments as well as destruction of buildings dedicated to religion," said Bensouda.
On Saturday the Islamists destroyed the tombs of Sidi Mahmoud, Sidi Moctar and Alpha Moya, and on Sunday attacked Cheikh el-Kebir's mausoleum as residents stood by helplessly.
Crying "Allahu Akbar" (God is Great), the men carrying chisels and hoes smashed the tombs.
"There are many of us watching the radical Islamists destroy the mausoleum. It hurts but we can't do anything. These madmen are armed, we can't do anything but they will be cursed that is for sure," a journalist said on condition of anonymity.
He said the destruction at the Djingareyber cemetery ended in the late afternoon, with four tombs in total destroyed. The Islamists also destroyed earthenware jars and other artifacts around the tombs.
The cemetery is situated in the south of Timbuktu in the suburb of the eponymous Djingareyber mosque built from mud in 1327.
Another resident of Timbuktu, a former tour operator, said the Islamists had also threatened to destroy the ancient mosques. "This morning (Sunday) the Islamists told us that if there are saints inside the mosques, they will also destroy these mosques."
Several saints are buried inside the city's three historic mosques. Timbuktu is also home to 16 cemeteries and mausoleums, according to the UNESCO website.
The Islamist fighters from Ansar Dine (Defenders of Faith) are among the Al-Qaeda-linked armed groups which occupied the north of Mali in the chaos that emerged after a March coup in Bamako.
Their presence in Timbuktu and continued violence in the region prompted UNESCO on Thursday to list the city as an endangered site.
"It is Islam which is good," Ansar Dine spokesman Sanda Ould Boumama said when asked about the outpouring of anger and emotion over the destruction of the mausolea. "God is unique. All of this is haram (forbidden in Islam). We are all Muslims. UNESCO is what?" Boumama said on Saturday. He said the group was acting in the name of God and would "destroy every mausoleum in the city. All of them, without exception".
Mali's Culture and Tourism Minister Fadima Diallo on Sunday urged the United Nations to take action to preserve her country's heritage.
"Mali exhorts the UN to take concrete steps to stop these crimes against the cultural heritage of my people," she told UNESCO's annual meeting in the Russian city of Saint Petersburg.
"I am pleading for the international community's solidarity," she said, ending her emotional address by saying: "God help Mali". The attacks were reminiscent of the Taliban blowing up the giant Buddhas of the Bamiyan valley in Afghanistan -- an ancient Buddhist shrine on the Silk Road and a world heritage site -- in 2001 after branding them un-Islamic.
UNESCO session chairwoman Yeleonor Mitrofanova told a meeting in Saint Petersburg that the destruction was tragic news.
"I appeal to all those engaged in the conflict in Timbuktu to exercise their responsibility -- for the sake of future generations, spare the legacy of their past," she said.
In a matter of months Mali has gone from one of west Africa's stable democracies to a nation gripped by deadly Islamic chaos.
The March 22 coup eased the way for Tuareg separatist rebels -- descendants of those who founded Timbuktu in the fifth century -- to carry out the armed takeover of an area larger than France they consider their homeland.
However the previously unknown Ansar Dine group fighting on their flanks seized the upper hand, openly allied with Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, and have since pushed the Tuareg from all positions of power.
The international community fears the vast desert area will become a new haven for terrorist activity and the Islamists have threatened any country that joins a possible military intervention force in Mali.



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[-] 1 points by ericweiss (575) 3 years ago

I asked a question about Egypt.
If you don't know the answer, do you have the brains to admit it? The Muslim Brotherhood won this election. If you think all Egyptians are happy about it - ask the Coptic Christians

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

ofcourse not

I'm not pleased that the military be in power

[-] 1 points by grapes (3652) 3 years ago

In countries submitting to "majority rule" there will always be minorities which are not happy about it. It is important to have bills of rights for all parties to observe and respect. The U.S. was different in being able to erect its Bill of Rights without much bloodshed because its states had existed as sovereign entities before forming the union so the Bill of Rights had a relatively easy time getting into the ratified Constitution. Other countries might have to achieve the same through other means. The United Kingdom achieved similar things with relatively little bloodshed and was very special (it may seem a little antiquated but it was more civilized) in the modern major powers. The scourge of religious fanaticism has always been a curse on mankind, Christianity included. In the old days, Islam was more tolerant of cultural heritage (after all, it was Islamic culture that had preserved the western classical cultural heritage of ancient Greece and Rome) than Christianity but apparently some parts of Islam turned violent more recently. As long as the Muslim Brotherhood concentrates on its charitable missions rather than "remaking" Egypt, there should not be much problem. It should condemn all attacks on minorities such as the Coptic Christians.

[-] 1 points by ericweiss (575) 2 years ago

I HOPE you are right but I fear you are not.
Over 11,000,000 Arabs have been killed by Arab on Arab violence in the last 60 years.
You should read about taqqiya -
I am not optimistic.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3652) 2 years ago

How do you balance sovereignty and freedom with other countries' DIFFERENT ideas of those, if they are irreconcilable? One way is to take the Clinton-esque compromise of "Don't ask! Don't tell!" There is NOT a thing that we could do about Egypt and that is probably the BEST thing that we can do to Egypt, keeping our hands off but Egypt needs to learn to live in the limelight after its people have awakened just as the U.S. had to live with all of its dirty laundries hung out for the whole world to see. Having hope and being optimistic are best for long-term mental health. We will deal with the consequences when they show up.

[-] 1 points by ericweiss (575) 2 years ago

I thank ypu for your thoughtful perspective but I hope an Egyptian gives is an insider's perspective

[-] 1 points by grapes (3652) 2 years ago

Please do not consider me an insider but as a U.S. citizen, I stand fully behind what I wrote even it may just be an operational manure truck.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

I'm getting the general impression that you are, in fact, an operational manure truck.

If you have a specific purpose here, then state it fully.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3652) 2 years ago

I have the mission from up on high -- to fertilize the world for the rains that will come so we will have a bountiful harvest for all.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

Okay. I have it from "up on high" that you're a bot.

Welcome aboard. And keep doing that rain dance.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3652) 2 years ago

Think. Think. Think. ... Am I a bot? ? ? What is a bot? ? ? What is the difference between a human being and a bot? ? ? Ah, dancing for rain will give me the title of the RAIN MAKER, a most revered title in some realms.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

It's all about pretense. You have "the mission from up on high" Quote

I, on the other hand, have no mission, other than the dissemination of information, which I will do, without compunction.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3652) 2 years ago

Really? The selective dissemination of information is a good indication of a secret agenda which is NOT so secret to the ones accustomed to the tactics of propaganda. Iran is worth saving so let us get it done, okay? You know how it works here in the U.S. As long as there is no marching or firing order, prevention of conflicts is possible and much desired for all.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

Iran is the birthplace of humanity, and you, from one of the youngest nations on the face of the earth, are deigning to "save it".

I'll just sit back and watch your work, okay?

[-] 1 points by grapes (3652) 2 years ago

I cannot save Iran -- ONLY Iran can save Iran. When and if the Commander-in-Chief calls bluff on the "birthplace of humanity," we can all see how much humanity will remain after that, regardless of whether all of that is coming from a youngest nation or not. There are other ancient countries that touted their past glories but they did not help with the invasions of the colonial Europeans, did they? You can get on with the program to help save the "birthplace of humanity" and let us keep humanity going, will you? Please ...?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

You're making assumptions on behalf of whom, grapes?

Iran has been doing fine since recorded time began.

Keep those crappy invasive fingers out of there, remembering that all of the people in Iran still remember what it was like to live under a western despotic evil regime, and all will be good.


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 3 years ago

all wars are criminal

[-] 1 points by Mowat (164) 3 years ago

This post is designed to stir hatred towards Egypt.

Al-Qaeda is a nomenclature for jihadists. They represent less than 1% of the Muslim world. This is the same percentage of the wealthy in the US.

War advocate, oh, go away. No more wars for Israel!

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 3 years ago

This is why we needed to stop bombing the middle east years ago. Pretty back all the way to the 50's

We should have taken the Canadian approach.

[-] 0 points by conservatroll (187) 3 years ago

Oh, let America take care of us? Don't think that would have worked for us,

[-]0 points by TrevorMnemonic (3465) 8 hours ago

This is why we needed to stop bombing the middle east years ago. Pretty back all the way to the 50's

We should have taken the Canadian approach.