Forum Post: Dumbing Us Down - It all starts Here
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 22, 2011, 2:20 p.m. EST by lifesprizes
(298)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
What does the school do with the children?
It makes the children confused. It presents an incoherent ensemble of information that the child needs to memorize to stay in school. Apart from the tests and trials that programming is similar to the television, it fills almost all the "free" time of children. One sees and hears something, only to forget it again.
It teaches them to accept their class affiliation.
It makes them indifferent.
It makes them emotionally dependent.
It makes them intellectually dependent.
It teaches them a kind of self-confidence that requires constant confirmation by experts (provisional self-esteem).
It makes it clear to them that they cannot hide, because they are always supervised.
Granted, the public ed system is breaking down.
I'm wary of all libertarian schemes though, with good reason.
Maybe we could have OWS Schools. A corner of each occupation would be roped off and parents would bring their kids in, to be schooled with the finest Occupation pedagogy.
First Period: History of the Gold Standard
Second Period: Bubbles, Manias and Crashes
Recess
Third Period: The Federal Reserve and European Central Banking
Juice, Cookies (vegan) and Nap
Fourth Period: Nonviolent Direct Action and Decentered Organizations
Fifth Period: Labor History
sounds libertarian to me
That sounds like information relative to the times. Your on it.
The most important points aren't listed: false history that omits uncomfortable truths in order to indoctrinate citizens into the system; further indoctrination into servitude through a corporate job; a westernized worldview that that demeans other perspectives and that is based upon class, gender, and racial superiority.
Hear, hear! Totally agree on this point.
Thank you George Carlin.
Amen brother or sister! http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/pages/pdf_downloads.html
Haha how did I know that somebody was going to post that. The irony is that this protest is something that Charlotte Iserbyt would point to as evidence of her conspiracy theory. All of these collectivist kids preaching tolerance are what she would refer to as "brainwashed" by the secret Bolshevik conspiracy that she fears is working behind the scenes to indoctrinate American children into communism.
They are not preaching tolerance but mob rule. Tolerance is not advocating a system that reduces freedom and hinders real compassion. Tolerance is not a push toward a particular business model but allowing the market, we the people, to choose. Fascism. Corporatism, Socialism, Communism are all the same school of thought with slight variants.
I was just quoting Iserbyt's hilarious conspiracy theory about the vast, left-wing conspiracy:
Iserbyt would definitely look at Occupy Wall Street as proof that she was right about how American schools are intentionally brainwashing kids into collectivism. That's a big part of why I called them the Isebyrt Awards.
Have you even read the book?
Of course! Iserbyt sets the gold standard in fringe, crackpot ideology, and I'm a big aficionado.
She considers critical-thinking education and computer skill training to both be "indoctrination" conducted by the communist conspiracy that went underground as a secret fifth-column within the US federal government after the fall of the Soviet Union. Her book is more entertaining than any fiction could ever be. And her web site is great too, it's full of awesome conspiracy-theory gems written after the book, like the one about the "North American Soviet Union".
The Occupy Wall Street movement, with its collectivist-oriented kids with computers, are exactly what she was talking about when she warned about how American kids are being taught to reject "absolute morality" in favor of moral relativism. She is very worried that American kids are being to re-evaluate their values in the way that the Occupy Wall Street protesters are doing now.
I think the larger issue that needs to be discussed is the framework through which we are taught. Granted I have not taken the time to read her book in its entirety and while some of her conclusions may be wrong, education has by definition shifted from nurturing an individuals "innate" skills to various means of indoctrination through conditioning.
My contention with collectivism is the issue of mob rule. On the other hand I dont see a dichotomy between Objective - Subjective morality but more of a gradient. Objective is defiantly a move toward intrinsicsisty or absolutistivity however, we can always be more precise.
My issues are not her conclusions. But the potential truth she has uncovered. if you look up test from the 1800s thy are far more complex than our own.
I really do recommend reading Iserbyt's book if you're going to go around citing it as a reference. You're associating yourself with a very hard-core variety of far-right conspiracy-theory extremism. I can't comment on a "move toward intrinsicsisty or absolutistivity", because those are made-up words. You really should look in more detail into "the potential truth she has uncovered" to find out what the truth is, exactly. Apparently you're in for a surprise.
This is the third time in less than two months that somebody has tried to cite Charlotte Iserbyt's book in defense of their world view to me, without reading the book first. I find that to be simply fascinating. Her book is like a Rorschach test. Everybody sees what they want to see in it, because nobody bothers to read it. People go around citing it as a reference without reading it first. Even though the book only includes about 31 pages of prose written by Iserbyt.
Ive read enough of it to see that it has potential. Im not concerned whether or not she is a rar right left or moderate conspiracy theorist or not. Im not into hype, or right vs left, im into honesty and a fidelity to the truth.
Things are objective - subjective depending on there relationship to the point or frame of reference. All truth is by definition absolute.
The entire book is a collection of references provided as evidence of her far-right conspiracy theory. If you're going to go around citing her book as a reference then you really do need to understand that. Charlotte Iserbyt would definitely agree with you about moral absolutes. And if you had read her book, you would know that it's not necessarily a good thing that she agrees with you about that.
You're the third person in less than two months to cite her book as a reference to back a view that Iserbyt herself definitely does not support. My personal theory about why people keep doing that is that nobody reads books any more. So people who claim to read books can go around saying whatever they want to say, citing books as references to back whatever they're saying, even if the books don't actually back their views. Nobody knows any different, because nobody reads the books anyway. People who are inclined to agree do so, and they point to the book references as evidence of the credibility of the person's views, and nobody ever notices that the references DON'T back the person's views, because nobody reads books any more.
The more we TRY to teach, it seems the worse off our education becomes. People are not meant to listen to long lectures and regurgitate information on a standardized test. Just like any other species, we learn by observation and performing tasks. You can learn vocabulary be reading something rather than copying down words and definitions. You can learn math much better by applying it to something useful rather than listening to someone talk about theory. Our education system is systematically dumbing down our children because people who know nothing about education are making our education regulations. This is bull shit. If something isn't done, the children in this country will not have a chance. They will be to ignorant to fight back.
Education reform; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_reform http://www1.worldbank.org/education/globaleducationreform/ http://www.education-reform.net/ http://dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Education/Education_Reform/
Curiousity driven Learning http://www.csl.sony.fr/~py/developmentalRobotics.htm http://www.idsia.ch/~juergen/interest.html http://www.childtrauma.org/ctamaterials/Curiosity.asp http://www.csun.edu/~vcpsy00h/students/explore.htm
Types of Intelligence; http://www.macalester.edu/psychology/whathap/ubnrp/intelligence05/Mtypes.html http://www.ldpride.net/learningstyles.MI.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_intelligences
Learning Styles; http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/Learning_Styles.html http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/ILSpage.html http://www.chaminade.org/inspire/learnstl.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_styles http://www.funderstanding.com/learning_styles.cfm
Student Teacher Ratio: http://www.edspresso.com/?OVRAW=education%20reform%20student%20teacher%20ratio&OVKEY=education%20reform&OVMTC=advanced http://www.edreform.com/index.cfm?fuseAction=section&pSectionID=15&cSectionID=97 http://www.dreamagic.com/jesse/isedurat.html
Anti Intellectualism; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism http://chronicle.com/free/v47/i15/15b00701.htm http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellectualism-American-Life-Richard-Hofstadter/dp/0394703170 http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0121/p17s02-lehl.html http://mtprof.msun.edu/Spr1997/TROUT-ST.html http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/07/26/anti-intellectualism/ https://urresearch.rochester.edu/retrieve/6552/Anti-Intellectualism.pdf http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2007/02/04/reorganization_plan_calls_for_higher_student_teacher_ratios/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+Maine+news
REFORM General Curiousity drives learning if it is allowed to do so and not shut down. Curiousity is shut down via the current system, creating the ADD disorder sudden appearance on the charts. One half of ADD is a person who can’t pay attention. The other half is a boring culture, delivery of information modus operandi. Curiousity driven learning involves more brain area participation. If a person doesn’t really like their experience, the subconscious mind edits it and doesn’t learn from it.Using curiousity driven learning potentially accelerates the learning curve such that it would not be unreasonable for the society of the future to expect the equivalent of a multiple PhD education from High School. The largest obstscle to curiousity driven learning is the current student to teacher ratio. Curiousity driven learning requires a personal curriculum to be developed per child, an enormous labor process for most teachers. The cure is to use peer tutoring, and older child tutoring in conjunction with professional testers. Teachers are being asked do two different jobs, Teaching and Testing. Testing is incredibly underutilized. How can you know what a child is ready to learn if you have not learned from them who they are and what they know already? The second largest obstacle is a lazy educatonal system which must be corrected and re-educated itself. The educational paradigm being taught for use is not the one which is being taught in reform education psychology and sociology classes. The first battery of tests should be; IQ tests, aptitude tests, Sanity tests, Type of intelligence per intelligence tests, learning style tests, performance tests, peer skills tests, comprehensive topical subject tests, and in general, any test which can be used to effectively appraise an individual child for the purposes
of creating for that child a personalized curriculum. The topics of psychology, sociology, conversational logic, and ethics should be added to the current curriculum for all Middle School (ages 12 to 14 or grades 6 thru 8) and High Schools Personality differences including learning styles and Types of intelligence Can mean that people learn in very different ways. Groups of students should be organized without regard so much to age as to learning style. A class full of visual Leanrners from 3 age groups is better than a class full of kinesthetic learners and visual learners who find each other distracting and each others interactions with the teacher bizarre. Throw in some introverts and some extroverts and a speedreader or two, and a teachers modus operandi cannot hope to reach well the different types of Students that s/he is teaching.
Our society is composed of a population which is by about 50 percent Anti-intellectual. (As part of a deep and long term attempt at denial of science facts) The sheeple will crucify the nerds, that’s the end result of pack psychology and anti-intellectualist mob events. Both alleged “Sides” in the great orchestrated argument between left and right are delusional dogmatist simple minded over simplified versions of reality, oversimplified problem solving process, and thus oversimplified and therefore Usually counterproductive pseudo solutions. Polarity does not contain sanity, both sides are polarized via each other, but the line that connects those two dots at no point in time Ever gets around to the big picture or the whole truth.
Evolution and mother nature will on the other hand favor the nerds.
azizanasna at least have some balls. If you think the Jews are in control of everything and are to blame for everything, than just say it. Don't use code. Don't be a pussy. Stand behind your beliefs and say proudly " the jews are to blame, the jews are to blame", its ok, i think we can handle it. You don't have to hide. Be a man, not a boy. Again, your funny. I needed a pick me up for monday morning.
NWNO!
Alfie Kohn is also good on this issue. He promotes progressive education reforms.
We need to end grades, testing, homework, merit pay, charter schools, standards--all that shit is educational suicide.
Its time to evolve wouldn't you agree?
Great post.
Education reform; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_reform http://www1.worldbank.org/education/globaleducationreform/ http://www.education-reform.net/ http://dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Education/Education_Reform/
Curiousity driven Learning http://www.csl.sony.fr/~py/developmentalRobotics.htm http://www.idsia.ch/~juergen/interest.html http://www.childtrauma.org/ctamaterials/Curiosity.asp http://www.csun.edu/~vcpsy00h/students/explore.htm
Types of Intelligence; http://www.macalester.edu/psychology/whathap/ubnrp/intelligence05/Mtypes.html http://www.ldpride.net/learningstyles.MI.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_intelligences
Learning Styles; http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/Learning_Styles.html http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/ILSpage.html http://www.chaminade.org/inspire/learnstl.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_styles http://www.funderstanding.com/learning_styles.cfm
Student Teacher Ratio: http://www.edspresso.com/?OVRAW=education%20reform%20student%20teacher%20ratio&OVKEY=education%20reform&OVMTC=advanced http://www.edreform.com/index.cfm?fuseAction=section&pSectionID=15&cSectionID=97 http://www.dreamagic.com/jesse/isedurat.html
Anti Intellectualism; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism http://chronicle.com/free/v47/i15/15b00701.htm http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellectualism-American-Life-Richard-Hofstadter/dp/0394703170 http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0121/p17s02-lehl.html http://mtprof.msun.edu/Spr1997/TROUT-ST.html http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/07/26/anti-intellectualism/ https://urresearch.rochester.edu/retrieve/6552/Anti-Intellectualism.pdf http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2007/02/04/reorganization_plan_calls_for_higher_student_teacher_ratios/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+Maine+news
REFORM General Curiousity drives learning if it is allowed to do so and not shut down. Curiousity is shut down via the current system, creating the ADD disorder sudden appearance on the charts. One half of ADD is a person who can’t pay attention. The other half is a boring culture, delivery of information modus operandi. Curiousity driven learning involves more brain area participation. If a person doesn’t really like their experience, the subconscious mind edits it and doesn’t learn from it.Using curiousity driven learning potentially accelerates the learning curve such that it would not be unreasonable for the society of the future to expect the equivalent of a multiple PhD education from High School. The largest obstscle to curiousity driven learning is the current student to teacher ratio. Curiousity driven learning requires a personal curriculum to be developed per child, an enormous labor process for most teachers. The cure is to use peer tutoring, and older child tutoring in conjunction with professional testers. Teachers are being asked do two different jobs, Teaching and Testing. Testing is incredibly underutilized. How can you know what a child is ready to learn if you have not learned from them who they are and what they know already? The second largest obstacle is a lazy educatonal system which must be corrected and re-educated itself. The educational paradigm being taught for use is not the one which is being taught in reform education psychology and sociology classes. The first battery of tests should be; IQ tests, aptitude tests, Sanity tests, Type of intelligence per intelligence tests, learning style tests, performance tests, peer skills tests, comprehensive topical subject tests, and in general, any test which can be used to effectively appraise an individual child for the purposes
of creating for that child a personalized curriculum. The topics of psychology, sociology, conversational logic, and ethics should be added to the current curriculum for all Middle School (ages 12 to 14 or grades 6 thru 8) and High Schools Personality differences including learning styles and Types of intelligence Can mean that people learn in very different ways. Groups of students should be organized without regard so much to age as to learning style. A class full of visual Leanrners from 3 age groups is better than a class full of kinesthetic learners and visual learners who find each other distracting and each others interactions with the teacher bizarre. Throw in some introverts and some extroverts and a speedreader or two, and a teachers modus operandi cannot hope to reach well the different types of Students that s/he is teaching.
Our society is composed of a population which is by about 50 percent Anti-intellectual. (As part of a deep and long term attempt at denial of science facts) The sheeple will crucify the nerds, that’s the end result of pack psychology and anti-intellectualist mob events. Both alleged “Sides” in the great orchestrated argument between left and right are delusional dogmatist simple minded over simplified versions of reality, oversimplified problem solving process, and thus oversimplified and therefore Usually counterproductive pseudo solutions. Polarity does not contain sanity, both sides are polarized via each other, but the line that connects those two dots at no point in time Ever gets around to the big picture or the whole truth.
Evolution and mother nature will on the other hand favor the nerds.
You have much depth in your words
I have to disagree on a couple of points. Humans do need human interface and recognition. Schools don't teach that, it is inherent. Observe a child who saying "mommy, mommy, mommy,mommy..." until he/she gets attention and feedback. The human brain functions by categorizing and we have to learn to broaden our thought, and break down the categories. Schools don't teach class affiliation, interactions between students do, because the students form groups naturally. Our culture dictates the groups, so it is up to all of us to redefine them.
weirdos
An interesting essay written by a teacher at OWS about this very issue: http://theassailedteacher.com/2011/10/12/why-do-so-many-members-of-the-99-oppose-the-99-movement-teacher%E2%80%99s-edition/
John Taylor Gatto has some very good points but, at the end, is a little bit of a loon.
how so? dumbing us down was on the money
He has been part of the system and seen it from the inside. I guess a loon could be a good thing or bad depending on what side your on.
Yeah, sometimes a loon is a visionary and sometimes they see things in fresh ways that the rest of us are too normal to see. Gatto is the latter type I think. But, in the end, he gives us things to think about and that aint half bad.
Anyway, thanks for sharing. It really is something worth discussing.
I agree its something that can be talked about. Issues can be solved, we can work together. We all have a common interest in seeing our kids educated properly and taught true core values. Such as integrity, compassion and other teachings that hold the human spirit high.
I am a history teacher and I can say that we are trained to teach kids to be passive consumers, to find validation with their peers (This is where I disagree with Gatto) and to consume. What is worst is that the modern world is taught like it is just a natural outgrowth of progress instead of built on the hijacking of our politics and culture by the corporate.
There are some teachers that rise above their training. But with the teacher's unions being broken down, most of our teacher now are young and stupid and not dedicated to the profession. They accept the way things are just as the kids do, even more so.
It is an exercise in the banality of evil and inoculating our children against having a moral conscience. Good teachers everywhere must Occupy the Classroom and allow our kids to be critical thinkers about the foundations of the world.
Well said. Glad there are other teachers who believe this.
I'm with you on this. I believe all we have to do is take on a couple of these issues within ourselves and mull them over. We don't have to get stormy we can get creative. We are gifted with imagination and the power to create. This is our power as human beings. I believe we can create the best of the best as it is within our hearts.
Charter Schools supported by Walmart and Microsofts Gates to undermine public education and make a profit off it. Scum
This does not have to be tolerated any longer. We are the ones choosing to play this game. We can walk away and create another system that taps the true creative potential of our spirits. The is our mission that is our purpose to create, live and love.
civilization would not exist if humans did not imitate each other and work together
Civilization is what every we want it to be.
the city streets were not built by one man
That city street started in one mans mind and with the help of his brothers and sisters became the street it is today.
more likely
humans walked the same path of other humans
and the ground was pounded flat
the community found those trodden paths easier to walk along
and moved to maintain such paths by paving them
And many took this path and many others chose another.
oh i forgot ...we had to take God from the schools ...it was in our way. THX
the powers that be must have total control over us and our children..''for a better tomorrow''...they know whats right for us... to lead the masses down the corrupted road of ungodly righteousness..its needed for a better but not brighter tomorrow.....NWO is coming and ready us.
Stupid people are easier to control with lies. Stupid people will do what you tell them is good for them, and assume with a reasonable amount of certainty that they won't analyze it deeply enough to realize you're full of shit. Stupid people buy into slogans that have no depth. "Hope and Change", and "We are the 99%". I'm not bashing the movement, I agree that we should be protesting this bullshit that we're going through, but all I hear is the slogan mixed in with catchy signs, yet no one has a real clue as to why they're there.
Movements have demands. Desegregate, let women vote etc. This movement has so far been targeting people who haven't broken the law. They're shady, corrupt, and have most likely destroyed our currency, but it's all legal because Congress makes the laws that gives their corruption the power to work. Don't picket some Billionaires front gate... That's pointless and you look like class warfare soldiers. It's stupid. Picket the people you "vote" in to "represent" you. Honestly the slogan should be "We are the 47% that didn't vote in the bullshit for the last 30 years" Everyone who votes is responsible for this mess we're in.
I think the consequence of your logic is that everyone who doesn't vote is responsible for the mess we are in.
No the consequence to my logic is the realization that if you believed in "Hope and Change" and aren't seeing anything improving that you helped make the mess we are in. I'm not blaming this whole thing on Obama. Bush/Vader, Rummy, Pelosi, Reid, Boehner and the whole fucking lot of them are the reason we're in this mess, AND YET PEOPLE VOTE THEM IN, OR BACK IN TO POWER. so yes... if you voted, you're the problem too. Stop believing in the nonsense without applying 5 seconds of critical thinking. Start questioning why the people running the country have been saying the same thing for the last 40 years and everything is still the same. THEY KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. And they sell it brilliantly.
And you buy it, day in and day out.
No, I believe our system of governance is broken. It is abundantly clear that the office of the Presidency is not all powerful, it can be checked, without balance you might say. And voting in and of itself is insufficient as it doesn't get you the Representation promised in the Constitution. If OWS can sustain a growing body of support from citizens concerned, but unable to directly physically participate then the movement can provide an effective lobby for change. I have no rosy feeling that it is inevitable however.
Frankly I think the best successful model for such a sustained and effective lobby is the NRA. And surely the "petitioning for the redress of grievances" deserves at least as much credence as their particular issue.
Ideas and inspiration, Imagination and creativity are like unborn seeds, soon they grow into a tree and then they grow into a forest.
That is why my girls are home schooled. My oldest is on the presidents list at college studying accounting. Not too bad, IMO.
Once again, Steve Jobs called it. Unions have screwed up America's schools.