Forum Post: Drug Testing Welfare Recipients Officially Proven to Be a Failed Concept
Posted 12 years ago on Feb. 3, 2012, 2:34 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic
(5827)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Daily Show's Aasif Mandvi asks Florida Governor "Will you piss in this cup?"
None of the representatives that supported this piece of legislation are willing to take a drug test. Only 2% of the Florida population on welfare failed the test. Saving the tax payers nothing, this new program actually cost the state an additional $200,000 tax payer dollars... Proving the idea is a failure and that people on welfare are not more likely to do drugs. After all, drugs cost a lot of money, something the poor don't really have.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/03/rick-scott-drug-testing_n_1252628.html
Interesting.
This guy in California came up with a treatment for addictions that showed huge promise, even had a Ph.D director of the mental health department providing a defacto approval by agreeing to carry his request to the state. No way, the county there intervened and stopped the process, or something like that. I gues he couldn't really find out.
So he filed a federal lawsuit, one that apparently had no defense. What happens? The US district made a secret revision of the court rules that makes it so any pro se civil rights plaintiff they don't want to get justice, gets a garbage judge.
http://algoxy.com/law
F'nnnn unbelievable.
then check this he makes a video showing how America addicted to oil can end their dependence, and utube blocks it from being used as a video response.
http://algoxy.com/oxygen/youtube.error.try.again.html
its a failed program to drug test anyone.. its a social control mechanism.. its backed by insurance companies that will give employers a break in price if they drug test employees..and the pharmicuticul companies that make millions on producing the test. its only effective in detecting marijuana as all other drugs clear the system with in 3 days.. how is that effective?
Now the republicans will just say "We have to test them every 3 days!!"
In Florida, it was all about the crooked governors wife's corporation getting the testing contract.
Hooray.....................Cronyism!!!!!!!!
At least on the "conservative" side of things.
Can you share a link to back that claim? I'm not doubting it, I would just like to read about it first. It sounds like pretty standard corruption.
A quick search while I prepare dinner.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/money/gov-rick-scotts-drug-testing-policy-stirs-suspicion-1350922.html
The man's more of a crook than Nixon.
Awesome link. Thanks.
Rather than a drug test how about a weight test. Before you can purchase groceries you must step on scales. If you are overweight by height you cant purchase the groceries. My tax dollars are making people fat and unhealthy.
I think drug testing for Welfare Recipients is a great idea,the long term savings would make it worth it.
The Revoking of Voting Rights for anybody taking Government Welfare or any other Govt. aid or subsistence money will be the defining blow to the Dumocrap voter block.
People should not be eligible to vote while at the same time receiving Govt. assistance.
and that does include welfare corporations of course.. and everyone that works for them. btw.. do you hate your job? and why do you think it would save any money? it says that only 2 % of people on welfare tested positive.. so they spent 200k to test everyone.. and they saved 20k for the tax payer.. do you have a learning disability? or just not good at math
Since when did Libs start worrying about spending money?
not the spending money.. just make sure that it includes everyone from grant recipients to farmers to welfare corporations , to artist, to scientist, etc. dont just target one gov. assistance program or better yet.. just out law drug testing for anyone for any reason as it violates the constitutional right to protection from illegal searches. or do you advocate for tyranny
I think it should be extended to those in Congress, as well as anyone dealing with the taxpayers money...like the Feds, Bankers, Brokers, Mortgage Lenders as well as those people who deliver food, Frackers, the water department, public utilities, and especially sheep and cattle farmers!! Hell, the whole damn country needs to be tested.....and I hope you will be the first to volunteer!!
Besides being facetious,you didn't tell me what you thought about:
The Revoking of Voting Rights for anybody taking Government Welfare or any other Govt. aid or subsistence money will be the defining blow to the Dumocrap voter block. People should not be eligible to vote while at the same time receiving Govt. assistance.
I'd be curious of your take.
That cuts both ways. so that means all the share holders of GE would no longer be able to vote.
I doubt GE shareholder are on Welfare or Food stamps.
well, let's just say I'm not stupid enough to get stuck on semantics. last I heard anytime a government gives to another, whether it is a tax credit, subsidy or any other euphemism they use for a government hand out, it is could welfare. But considering gov't is the only institution that creates money, I never worked in a factory that created money, I'd say that all money programs from the gov't are needed to keep the economy going.
@headlesscross, That's the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard. And I've watched a few Sarah Palin interviews.
If you call the police to stop a burglar from robbing you're home, you're receiving government aid and would then lose you the right to vote.
I believe that was already done in American history... Do you need examples...and mind you...those same individuals owned their own homes, had businesses, organized churches and were model citizens. So...where does the buck stop and where does it start? It is the same old bath water being reused under a different guise and rehashed form of bigotry!
WTF?
Exactly!!
I'll tell you what I think about your ridiculous proposal.
BS.
First one must define govt assistance. Rent control? Subsidized housing? Social Security? What about tax credits? Just to name a few.
A proposal of this type does not support a democratic republic, but it does support an eventual form of dictatorship.
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Ninety percent of Americans who apply for a job are required to take a drug test. If they pass the test they can began to receive an income. If they fail the test, no income. Those on welfare are not required to take a drug test, but still receive an income paid by the taxpayers who have to take a drug test for their income.
Do we treat all US citizens "equally" or don't we? You seem to be upset that they are attempting to treat welfare recipients THE SAME WAY that everyone else gets treated.
Weird.
No BetsyRoss, there is no such thing as equality in this land. All are not on the same footing..Unfortunately, it will take too much hardship and wrath (which is out of our hands) on the part of the haves for all to understand that..
Point the fickle finger of fate at welfare recipients if you must, but if you were truly dealing with reality you would find that the majority had the same notions of "Freedom in America" as you before 2008!
Besides people who were laid off, which despite being a large # of people was not a huge %, most people are not much different than in 2008. Definitely not a majority.
Well then riddle me this....
Where did OW get its creativity?
Huh?
How is someone, who did not loose their job, going to be significantly worse off today than in 2008?
Job loss is not the only problem that has caused the welfare rolls to accelerate! There is a whole section of individuals who are still working, yet cannot pay their mortgage, gas, or even put food on the table. What you are looking at as job losses does not encompass the crux of the fall of this economy. You have farmers, who cannot afford to grow food because of costs, bank loans being called, etc. The Bernie Madoff's of this country are still out there and so are their victims...who do you think is taking care of those individuals..Social Security?? Do you believe Social Security is actually creating a wholesome lifestyle for the elderly as well? Wake up!! There is a hidden aspect to this whole ripple effect and the majority of individuals who live in the "Good Ole Past" mythology of this country are so terribly headed towards a rude awakening.
Someone who cannot afford to put food on the table has no BUSINESS having a mortgage!
So...when did humanity make you god?
Tread lightly dear...you never know when that fickle finger of fate might want to take away your pot of gold!
Obviously, you have some fear, otherwise you wouldn't be so adamant about putting your foot on the neck of others.
Please show me where any "god" has provided a mortgaged roof for any human being, or demanded that humans should provide them for each other? Can you show me when "humanity" made that a rule or law?
You may want to consider not using the term "fickle finger of fate" repeatedly, as well as speaking as if "fate" has the power to provide, or remove, a pot of gold from anyone. Especially when mocking the supposed "mythology" of others.
What causes you to be so adamant about using word imagery like "putting your foot on the neck of others"? Paranoia? Stupidity? Or just a deep secret delight that comes from the use of propaganda/rhetoric?
you are the one spouting propaganda! during the 'drug war' drug dealing has bloomed into a billion dollar business.. but you think persecuting people that smoke some weed once in a while is worthwhile? they would have loved you back in prohibition days!
Why do you care?
Yeah when someone loses their job or goes through rough times, have their work hours cut, or a contributing family member passes, or medical bills come up, or a laundry list of other rough times, they should just have their house taken immediately because they have no business having a mortgage. -sarcasm in case you missed it.
You have no idea what you're talking about, Betsy. If you are among the 50% of workers making less than 26,000 dollars a year, YOU ARE ONE MEDICAL CRISIS AWAY FROM BEING FUCKED
lol i see.. so if you owned a house for 10 years and then your company shuts down , hiring stops and you suddenly cant afford food.. what? you didnt deserve to live the life you were living before that? your suddenly a blight on society? who do you think has been signing up for welfare int he last 3 years?
Inflation, rising oil prices, and the rising costs of food.
All of which can be directly linked to fraud, corruption, and war mongering.
No government ever established, to my knowledge, is designed to, or capable of, putting all people on the exact same "footing" in regard to things, money, status, or outcome.
Equality of outcome is impossible because not all people possess equal intellect, physical strength, skills, abilities. Equality of outcome was never the focus of the Constitution, our Government, or this country.
Oh My!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftQLgODoLFE
Sorry, I don't watch youtube videos, nor do I accept them in lieu of actual, documented evidence.
It's just a Jimmy Dean movie....put there to take the edge off this nonconstructive topic, because it doesn't make sense....
There is no sense to this argument against welfare recipients and that is surely documented evidence in this world!!
Besides, welfare was created after the stock market crash in 1929, at least this country is ahead of the game...like the cart before the horse so to speak!
wouldnt it make more sense to end the farce of drug testing at all. it serves no purpose at all exept to make money for the drug companies producing the test.. the insurance companies controlling the employers. why do you think its ok to intrude into everyones personal life? btw.. do you think those child molesting teachers were drug tested? that really helped didnt it.
Explain your statistic. It sounds completely made up.
"1996 AMA Survey on Workplace Drug Testing and Drug Abuse Policies." American Management Association. N.Y., New York. 1996.
"More than 81 percent of businesses surveyed in 1996 were conducting some form of applicant or employee drug testing."
"The Wall Street Journal reported that about 90% of Fortune 200 companies have employee rug testing programs."
"Today, individuals subject to employee drug testing laws include government employees, military personnel, those involved in the transportation industry, student athletes, and countless other employees who consent to employee drug testing as a condition of employment and continued employment. Drug testing laws may also require other individuals to submit to drug testing, such as welfare and other public assistance recipients and anyone arrested under Federal law. Employee drug testing is routinely required as a condition of parole under current drug testing laws." http://www.detoxforless.com/drug-testing-information/employment.html
Pick any number you want at this point. This is a pointless discussion.
if everyone were treated equally, one could not discriminate a humans worth based on a drug test
The worth of the human is not being discriminated against based on a drug test. The worth of that human's WORK/ABILITY/RELIABILITY is being discriminated against based on a drug test.
that must be why congress is in this shape obviouly.. they are not drug tested..!
work, ability, and reliability
are easier and more accurately measured by
work, ability, and reliability
BOOM! Head shot!
Now I'm curious as to how you feel that human worth is measured.
Funny how one's work, ability, and reliability can ALSO cause one to be unemployed.
Let's say you have 2 people doing a job.
Both of equal capacity for the work load.
One person does the job as needed and in good time and is very pleasant with customers.
The second person takes a bunch of 15 minute breaks in between work loads, cruising facebook on their phone and is rude to customers.
See how easy it is to judge ability and reliability aka "human worth" ?
No drug test needed.
Also the interview process is a great way to select good employees. As are internships and apprenticeships.
They NEVER test the guys on WallStreet.
They NEVER test Congress.
I wonder why "conservatives" never ask?
They are as afraid of the truth as usual.
Here's a bill proposed by a REPUBLICAN Congressman-Gerald B. H. Solomon (NY)- H.R. 89-that proposed drug testing for Federal Employees. No one would co-sponsor it.
September 15th, 1986, President Ronald Regan issued executive order 12564-which is what caused the "drug free workplace" rules to go into place.
Oh I am ALL for drug testing on BOTH Wall Street AND Congress. Let's get that legislation going!
Here's a petition you can sign! http://www.petitiononline.com/DTC/petition.html
The war on drugs is a proven failure. Drug tests generally just detect weed because most drugs leave the system within a few days.
No more wasted tax dollars on prohibition. It failed for alcohol, which is a DRUG you might drink like a majority of Americans do, and is the leading cause of DRUG related deaths.
I don't drink alcohol at all, but I'm not a fucking prick trying to force tyranny against people's freedoms. The only people who approve of the war on drugs are oppressive pricks that love BIG government invading people's personal lives.
As long as they get the full spectrum, including alcohol, I'm in.
Ditto. Make it happen.
So tell me....why aren't Liberals DEMANDING it?
Because the war on drugs is a failure. And we're not dumb enough to want to keep repeating something over and over again expecting different results. BECAUSE THAT IS CALLED INSANITY.
Because, I'm not sure I really give a fuck, however, if you whining screaming "righties" want tests?
Test everybody!!!!!!!!
Limbaugh and Beck, and the entire FLAKESnews staff, included.
Just tax those lazy ass 1%ers to pay for it!!!!
My brother literally works right on Wall Street and he pees into a cup once a month.
Is he on probation? What kind of job, specifically for a "Wall Street" job, drug tests once a month?
No he has never been arrested. He works for one of the bigger banks doing consulting for the 401Ks that they manage. I am not sure of his official title.
So you don't support drug testing for welfare recipients? That speaks volumes!
I don't see the point in it. The numbers are so low and it defeats the entire purpose of trying to save tax dollars. It's just another way for big brother to keep tabs on people.
I also think the war on drugs is a waste of time and my tax dollars.
If you want to stop the 2% of people on welfare from buying drugs, then try and come up with a system similar to food stamps. Like rent and gasoline vouchers or something that companies can redeem for cash or that are as good as cash. Similar to food stamps.
98% of people in Florida on welfare are good people just down on their luck. I think this ordeal puts this situation republicans make such a fuss about into perspective and that it's not a REAL problem.
san diego has managed to not pass out the food stamps the federal government has provided
they claim they are fighting fraud not hunger
I know a lot of people who are on welfare and do a lot of drugs. It seems like an epidemic where I live. This is the best immediate solution anyone can think of. Good.
I know a lot of white collar professionals, persons of high positions, as well as those who deal with stocks, bonds, and corporate America who were, and still are on drugs. I see that problem on a daily basis. Do you know who supports the heroin and cocaine industry in America? Track down the poppy fields in the middle east and find out... Why were arms supplied to Central America...believe the fake hype if you want to!! You are living in a plastic bubble if you believe the poor are the majority of druggies,. When have you last visited Follywood??
Nonsense. In my 5 years in the financial industry, I have not met a single addict.
Good for you!!
Perhaps they keep it hidden like they do their S&M and other "not approved by mainstream society" addictions.
Quit dreaming!!! There is no way in hell you can condone what capitalistic America is doing and has done to Society...Puh Leeeeze!!!
S&M?
Capitalistic America has given it's people a good measure of prosperity and among the best living standards of the world. It has given the rest of the world most of it's inventions and intellectual capital.
Quit complaining or emigrate to a country you think is better for you.
Sorry buddy, but my family, and my family's family, and their family, and their families family, and then their family's family's family's family.......were already here...so why would I leave the land that was "ours" to begin with? Don't let me break it down to ya, cause you don't want the truth blocking up your rose "colored" glasses..now do you homey?
Capitalistic America has given nothing but grief, myths and illusions....I do believe people are beginning to understand that you all are just afraid to lose that "dream" for your personal selves....that's all..since throughout the history of civilizations, the greedy always become the needy!!
I only suggested that because you seem to find nothing good here. This isnt North Korea, you are free to move out
Why should I? You don't know me and you don't know what I possess or have or what I am for that matter. Besides, it is up to you to find the good here, beyond Capitalistic America...if that fails...then what are you left with? This land has sustained and will continue to sustain life...FOREVER!!. What has Capitalistic society done for humanity...look around....no one on this earth is happy....not even you... I'm happy to see all this shyt come to pass!!! So who is complaining now?
I can only speak for myself and I am happy. Very much.
Well, if that is true, then stop trying telling me what to do!!! Then I shall find it in my heart to do the same for you!!
Debates about the future of this country are futile. It was already decided when the treaties were formed a few thousand years ago!!
Next!
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All good things came about because people did something about it and not because they sat on their ass all day complaining and whining.
True...because people did something about it!!!!
OW is sitting on their asses, I presume, while Wall Street crashes and burns other people's lives???
Where are all those investments going. pray tell and how did this so-called Wall Street even get its start in the beginning of this country as an 100% illusionary money maker?
Let me put it this way....once you tell us how America truly got so rich...then you will come to understand why a lot of people don't give a damn if Wall Street falters...Let the illusion fade and vanish and let humanity come back into its own fold of reality and self reliance once again! I for one have no reason to believe that the individuals who started the OW movement are under any type of "godspell" trickery of such as was when this US of A, was first "incorporated" as a nation!
money is a drug.
rhetoric is crap
yeah, but those people have jobs. The people I know sit around all day doing nothing but drugs. There is a difference between those who are productive and do drugs and those who do drugs and get free hand outs. You protest so much that maybe YOU are on drugs without a job getting free handouts.
there is a difference? how is there a difference? are you saying that doing drugs is ok and should be legal? but only for the ones making over 100k of course cause you do know they drug test you for a fast food jjob but they do not drug test you for job as a stock broker.
Sitting around getting free handouts and doing drugs so that these people are incapable of having ambition and learning is a REAL problem. This is best idea I have heard to stop this epidemic. If cost more now doesn't matter because if it works our country we gain something much more.
but the majority of drug users are employed.. targeting one segment will not fix anything.. this drug testing theory has been going on scince the 80,s and the drug business has grown to a billion dollar industry.. thats proof that drug testing encourages and expands drug use not hinders it. the study says only 2% tested positive.. this means that 98% tested clean. doesnt that give you a clue that most drug users are not on welfare? because drug dealing is a billion dollar industry.. do you actually think a single mom on 300 a month welfare is the ones funding a billion dollar industry?? you cant be that narrow minded.
good points..
Well, that's odd...how can you tell they are sitting around all day doing nothing, unless perhaps you are amongst them doing the same damn thing!
Stop with the hypocritical, biased bigotry. This country has been drug infested since its inception....what do you think little ole ladies were sniffing up their noses back in the 1800's and always carried handkerchiefs? What do you think was the original ingredient in Coca Cola...Coke?? Stop living in a black and white world....it doesn't exist anymore...everyone is under the gun and no one is exempt....I'm not protesting...I'm just slapping you hard with reality!!
You are a grandeur of delusion. If you slapped me you would know it. You do not have a monopoly on truth and reality. Truth is a moving target relative to perspective and other variables. I only submit one angle which may or may not negate your angle but if both are true it is a paradox. Please, get a hold of yourself. Your mood swings remind me of the many drug addicts I know.
Well, thank you for the reality check ....guess since you know all about the drug business, I'll leave you to your intellectual musings!
Good luck on that welfare drug testing...I see they just signed on more recipients!! LOL!!
@Quark, The facts are in. If you know a bunch of drug addicts, that means nothing about statistics. They're probably part of the 2% that do drugs and are on welfare and you just happen to know them. The facts are in.
I know a lot of people that smoke cigarettes and are also lactose intolerant. That must mean a majority of people who smoke cigarettes are lactose intolerant, right? Wait that's not how it works and you are just being foolish and oppressive. Did you miss the part where this process actually costs people MORE tax dollars completely defeating the purpose of the testing?
I repeat this because it applies: Sitting around getting free handouts and doing drugs so that these people are incapable of having ambition and learning is a REAL problem. This is best idea I have heard to stop this epidemic. If cost more now doesn't matter because if it works our country we gain something much more.
What epidemic? It's tiny percent and trying to "solve" the problem via drug tests solves nothing especially considering that most drugs leave the system within a couple days. A better idea would be to make the program more like food stamps so the money can only be used for Rent, Mortgage Payments, Gasoline, and other types of necessities. Your solution solves nothing and costs the tax payers extra money. Therefore you are trying to take a losing battle.
The war on drugs and prohibition are losing battles that have solved NOTHING and have created massive problems like prison over population, which cost us even more tax dollars, and increased black market revenues and the drugs can't be regulated for safety either.
That is a better idea. Thank you.
The most mind blowing part is that Florida did this before and it was a failure. It wasn't cost effective. So, it is a complete and total waste of tax dollars. I think the ACLU did a study and it predicted the exact same outcome. I want to say that either Michigan tried it in the past or also did a study (or it was the same study---need more coffee) with the same results.
So, the only reason to do this is ..........because people are stupid. I cannot find any other justification to waste that kind of money. I don't care if someone had a "this one time at band camp" experience. I don't care if they "knows" someone. It is completely insane.
I wonder though if they look at only the amount of failed tests and not the amount of people who just did not take the test, and thus not get any welfare, for fear of failing the drug test.