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Forum Post: Drop the 99% Charade

Posted 3 years ago on Nov. 14, 2011, 5:55 p.m. EST by nichole (525)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Not a single Occupier I've met is willing to drop their narrow agenda in favor of gaining 99% support.

146 Comments

146 Comments


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[-] 4 points by CafPop (45) from Rochester, NY 3 years ago

I am. I only have one thing that I want to see happen, and I think it'd be pretty easy to get everyone to agree with me. In fact, I'd be shocked if you couldn't see the necessity of my position, here's the video: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57323527/congress-trading-stock-on-inside-information/?tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel

Stop this phenomenon (Congress members passing public policy directly based on their investments in the stock market) It's the perfect way to get start getting money out of politics, it's something that you can apply political pressure with, it's something that's hard to disagree with, it's something that has precedent (federal judges can only invest in blind trusts where they are legally obligated to not know the exact contents of their portfolio), and it's a straightforward fight to see it through...occupy your minds...

[-] 4 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

I like the 99% slogan because it helps dispense with bogey-man Left v. Right divides. The idea is simple enough... we need a society that addresses the interests of everyone, not a celebrity/ personality obsessed society where the super-rich wield power.

But let's face it... "99%" of people are Not engaged in this protest. They are shopping, driving, working, consuming, and taking care of their families like always. OWS needs to engage them, and can without compromising ideals & principles.

[-] 3 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

I too was hopeful because "Left" and "Right" both agree that things must change, even through this fabricated divide. All of the divisions within the "Left" that have destroyed the possibility for any potential advances are now aggravated (early-twentieth century America and Spanish Civil War come to mind) and OWS is about to be co-opted by the most violent radicals -- getting the sense that peace is not a desirable objective for many. The massive "nonviolent" shutdown of NYC on Thanksgiving Day may get ugly (signs for the event are loaded with violent imagery) and I believe it may destroy this Movement's rightful legitimacy.

[-] 2 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

I'm not losing hope yet though the challenges from all angles are huge. I weep when I think of what King and Gandhi accomplished, but realize not all of our fellow primates are up to that and we don't currently have any such example to follow. Still... the Spirit of the movement is peaceful, so let's keep dreaming!

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

Images of Civil Rights protestors are awe-inspiring because they document a dignity of character and discipline that I have not witnessed among OWS protestors. We should be using their example. The general public greatly sympathized with their plight after TV broadcasts aired footage of police turning dogs and water hoses on peaceful protestors. I have read too much coming from OWS detractors and it sickens me because I know that they encourage violence against OWS, or the "flea party" as we have been named.

[-] 2 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

yeah... OWS needs to really keep Civil Rights in mind and remember what people endured. It doesn't make what police are doing right, but a little perspective would go a long way. Also, I keep repeating... Dr. King understood that a WILLINGNESS to go to jail was a key aspect of Civil Disobedience. If we are serious, we must soldier up (non-violently) and face the music. Soldier up and lawyer up! and NO VIOLENCE.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

The images you are referring to are awe-inspiring because the people evolved were fighting against a true injustice not a perceived one.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

We do agree that things must change. We disagree on what needs to change and how to change them.

[-] 1 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Oh God ...

Here is an article I just found on the other side of the coin:

As Zuccotti Park Is Cleared, Congress Moves to Gut Financial Reform

www.huffingtonpost.com/mary-bottari/zuccotti-park-financial-reform-gop_b_1095212.html?ref=politics&ir=Politics

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

You have got to be kidding me!

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

? how so?

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

OWS is not for any of the things you just said. If they were they should occupy the White House not Wall Street.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

i think OWS (in general) thinks that the problem is a lot bigger than the White House. it's full of people who put their "hope" in Obama and then realized that he's just a guy... a pawn in the game (or maybe even a Rook or a Bishop...but he ain't no king!).

OWS also says "occupy everywhere". but of course symbolic and/ or strategic locations are chosen. In Paris (where I am) it's "La Grande Arche de la Defense". which is hardly IN Paris at all, and is very much on the outskirts. but symbolically as well as for other reasons. it's a good choice for the OWS thing here.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

Ok I can accept that but if they are disappointed in the people they choose to lead them they need to vote them out not go live in a park.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

but look at our choices... I don't want to vote for Obama (again) and I'm not going to. But I sure as hell am not voting for any of the clowns and puppets (or cynics, or misguided ideologues) on the Right (sorry). Here's a solution-- just add "None of the above!" to every ballot. And make them start over when "No of the above" wins the election.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

Why does this always have to come down to left or right? Why can't it be about who's ideas are best aligned with your's? If for example you think bigger government is not the answer why not vote for someone who stands for that regardless of their party affiliation. It's not about Democrats or Republicans, it's about who they are.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

i completely agree... I think. I voted for Ralph Nader 3 times, including his "spoiling" of Gore's chances.

to me it seems like the 2 parties maintain control together, and Other candidates with Other ideas never have a prayer. they don't get the media, they don't get invited onto the debates... in fact the are excluded, as was the case with Nader, who was far behind in the polls to Gore and Bush, but WAY ahead of any 4th candidate, so you can't use the excuse that debates would be too crowded. btw, guess i have to give Credit to the Republicans for having such a wide open field. but still... what a crummy bunch of dunces, cynics and ideologues!

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

Wish we could get an independent elected!

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 3 years ago

I would have taken Gore or Bush over Nader. I agree their needs to be more candidates beyond Republicans and Democrats, just not guys like Nader.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

why? guys like Nader = ?

I was quite impressed with him. Especially when he came to Seattle and scolded "us" (lefty progressive types that do more complaining than fighting/ working/ getting involved).

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 3 years ago

He is just too far to the left for my liking. I don't think he is crazy like others do. Just too far to the left for me. I am more of a moderate.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

well that really doesn't tell me anything. i don't know what too far left is. i don't think I even know what moderate is. the labels don't help much.

i know he (Nader) has a lot of criticism for globalization, and I also know there are arguments in favor of globalization. since globalization is triumphing (at least in terms of profits for multinationals) I think we would do well to have a strong "moderating" opposing voice in the White House.

though the question is moot since he is far too old now.

I wonder if you think seat-belts and laws requiring them are "too far left" for you. since that's what he fought for when he was young.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 3 years ago

Obviously seat belt laws are fine.

I was referring to things like support for a single payer health care system, wanting not-for-profit healthcare, wanting to repeal Taft-Hartley, abolishing the death penalty, anti-nuclear power, wanting the US to be the "world’s humanitarian superpower," supporting price restraints on prescription drugs, considering someone making $250K rich, etc.

I also agree with him on some things though, namely the need for campaign finance reform and tax reform.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

ok. I definitely support single-payer and I really don't understand how making profits off of illness is a good way to go. I would say the same thing about "for-profit" education as well as for-profit armies! Some things government can do better.

I also do not think it is either civilized, or effective to execute people. And given recent reports of DNA exonerating people and the general potential to "get it wrong"... it just seems so... well, un-Christian. (not that I'm a believer).

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[-] 1 points by 53percenter (125) 3 years ago

The slogan "99%" suggests that I support this movement, which I don't. OWS does NOT speak for 99% of US citizens.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

does that mean you are satisfied with the way our elected officials are addressing issues, or at least satisfied with 1 of the 2 political parties that maintain power and/ or that you don't mind the influence that banks, corporations and other private interests groups seem to have over "our" government?

Are you pleased the banks were bailed out, that troops are fighting in the Middle-East, that corporations are "legal persons". I could go on listing the problems as I see them, but I guess what I'm asking is if YOU see any big, structural, institutional, societal problems that "we" do need to solve and that are not being solved but only being made worse.

Do you?

[-] 1 points by NotYour99 (226) 3 years ago

I see all sorts of problems. I also see I don't like the solutions posted here by the OWS backers.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

solutions are tough and admittedly complicated. but i think OWS is at a very basic level, an attempt for a better understanding of the problems as well as a revitalizing the idea of finding solutions in a collective way. the politicians (Democrats & Republicans) do NOT REPRESENT US. they represent their "friends".

pick a problem and let's you & I at least talk about some solutions?!

just for shits and gigles!? : )

[-] 1 points by NotYour99 (226) 3 years ago

Let's start with this. The focus had been placed on the banks. Too much of what they do is wrong but not illegal. I feel the root focus of OWS shouldn't be wall at but should be our legislators big reform is needed there. Not only in restricting their longterm influence, but in getting corporate money away from them. I have my own list of solutions and I've seen others. What is yours

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

i think that is my #1 solution. our elected officials should not be allowed to be bribed. campaigns and elections must be separated from private donations, especially huge sums of money that exert inordinate influence.

this is not that difficult to accomplish. but we have been going in the wrong direction for several decades.

[-] 1 points by NotYour99 (226) 3 years ago

Ahhh but there's so much else thats needed. Term limits, no retirement for congress, making it a conflict of interest to play the market or invest in anything that there are regulations imposed by congress, etc etc.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

yes!... exactly and I agree!... see there now, it's not rocket science. maybe it's above the pay-grade of the "kids" camping out. but god bless them! and let's all get to fucking work on this shit.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 3 years ago

p.s. it's above my expertise too, to a certain extent. but that's not to say that my vote should not count! and people let's face it... they are not counting Our votes.

[-] 1 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 3 years ago

I am just nobody, but I like reading them.. I would also like to hear your solutions.

[-] -1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 3 years ago

No, what we need is a society of people that addresses the needs of themselves without handouts.

Grow up people, be adults.

[-] 0 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

Fair compensation for honest work is not a handout. Don't make me resort to crime.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

What would be "fair compensation for honest work"? I thought the market was suppose to determine what that was not the government.

[-] 1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 3 years ago

If you resort to crime, you go to jail. It's up to you.

[-] 0 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

I am working poor, not receiving any handouts ... barely surviving on my after-tax wages while providing much needed labor for a multi-billion dollar corporation.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

If you are truely the working poor you don't even pay taxes. Unless I am mistaken, you get a refund every year. In most cases the refund is higher than most payed in.

[-] -1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 3 years ago

So you have no debt, and no kids? Sounds like a bad situation that's out of your control. Damn the man for keeping you down.

On the other hand... if you have debt and children, then you got yourself into the mess you're in. It's good you're not taking handouts, but I don't pity people who make their bed then complain when they have to lie in it.

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

college debt no kids.

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 3 years ago

So how are you not able to pay your bills? Talk to your student loan holders and they'll lower your payments, or even defer your payments.

That's what I did.

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

Income contingent plans are not a terrible. I just received my MA and my loans are still on deferment. I know that if I don't get a better job before repayment is scheduled I will experience severe difficulties. Only jobs around are temp paying $10-12 an hour, in a relatively expensive area.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

Welcome to the real world! Do you think you are the only one who has ever had to overcome adversity?

[-] -2 points by youarebottom1percent (1) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

75% of the 99% think you are a bunch of idiots, and rightfully so. Most of the remainder don't know you exist and don't care. Have your little hissy fit while you can, it's gonna get real cold outside. BTW, I'll bet your parents are glad to finally get you out of their basements. I'll bet the locks will be change when you run back home. LOL

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

The kids should care because they are set to inherit an impossible nightmare unless something changes.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Please stop showing your ignorance. The 75% is still living in la la land and have not woke up yet. Go to such websites as: theeconomiccollapseblog.com to educate yourself as to why we are trying to fight for the American people. WAKE UP! Yes, the 75% are to busy with their toys, TV and stuff.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

Sorry to tell you but your cause does not represent the ideals that made our country great. Most of us in "la la land" understand that. That is why your cause will fail. America was built by independent tough people who were determined to make it on their own. Not by a bunch of whiney entitlists that wanted the government to take care of them. In case you didn't know it, we are capitalists in this country. No one is required to participate if they don't want to. All you have to do is find the socialist country of your choice and relocate. Isn't freedom grand!

[-] 4 points by nucleus (3291) 3 years ago

Actually, it is the 99.8%. But we rounded it down to be fair.

[-] 2 points by OccupyCapitolHill (197) 3 years ago

LOL what agenda...if they HAD a narrow agenda, we might be able to shut these guys up and give them their pacifier to suck on. But because Occupy NEVER had a specific list of goals/demands, it has always been and always will be a mob of anarchists/communists/socialists/etc. all wading around in a motley sea of incoherent, inconsistent babble.

[-] 2 points by Patriot1775 (3) from Queens, NY 3 years ago

Blah blah blah... Quit crying and cut it out already. You claim to be standing up against big corporation and greed in defense of the "99%" .... Well your dumb movement is costing the "99%" in tax money to pay for all the civil servants who make our lives livable everyday! So I'm going to say... Thanks morons for adding to my struggle! We're still paying taxes and the government will not go anywhere so cut your games and get a job. YOU HAVE NO SUPPORT from the public. To all you silver spoon fed college kids and you dirty unemployed hippies who have nothing better to do than take action against a world you think is controlling you... GO HOME. We live in the best country in the world and if you dont like it here then get the hell out!

[-] 2 points by Gunnerdad65 (5) 3 years ago

What a bunch of crap this all is. You are more like the .99 to .10 at best. Most of you are in the 46% that already don't pay any Federal taxes so you don't care how much I, one of the 53% pay. The Government robs you and then points at the rich guy and you all run after them. Those that are backing you are all in it for someway to use you as useful idiots. You swoon when Micheal Moore worth 50M comes calling, as you do for the rest of the 1% who you think are really cool people, who also would bitch about your bodies ruining the view from their penthouse. You all surely thought the Tea Party was a bunch of wierd white guys who just want us to go back to the Constitution and away from big Government which you all drool over. But we have a plan. It was written 200 years ago. THEY are the problem but you joust with the windmills they place in front of you. You think they or the unions give a crap if you all die today? They'd just hold a press conference over your bodies and blame Fox and the Tea Party for your deaths. And then get back in their Limo and head out for a round of golf. You speak in fifty different directions while you beg for money to live on. You want to go to Harvard but you want me to pay for it. The Government is always the problem. Listen to a speech given by Ronald Regan back in 1964 call "A time for Choosing. He talks about a run away Government 47 years ago that has only gotten more bloated than a dead swimmer. They are spending your childrens future away like a drunk sailor. Sorry Sailors, I thank you for your service. Even war makes for jobs here at home. Not everyone who works for a living is rich. Unless you work for the Government. They need to be downsized to where they only do what our forefathers wanted. Which for the most part is protect the Country. We care not that are borders are being over run. If you can't stop illegals or drug dealers you can't stop a terrorist with a suitcase Nuke that may go off right next to your tent. Oh well the Government will take care of it....hey give me back my wallet. Sucks to be a 53%er. But don't worry I'll clean up the crap you've thrown all over your room. Or at least I'll pay for it. You just keep chanting, it'll all be better any minute.

[-] 1 points by michael4ows (224) from Mountain View, CA 3 years ago

nice rant!

[-] 1 points by Wired (16) 3 years ago

I like your conviction. You are being honest and actually are sharing your thoughts with readers who need a wakeup call. Your words are being read by many. Not all are deaf. It's time to get serious. Time to abandon the empire, and demand our states liberty.

I'm afraid we have more enemies on the inside than the straw man our government wants us to fear in rest of the world.

We must see through the nebulas of our current leaders and turn our country around.

Where do we start?

[-] 2 points by Gunnerdad65 (5) 3 years ago

Thanks Wired but here's where it really gets difficult. It's like the Movie Terminator except the computer (Skynet) is the Government that has become self aware and everything it does is to protect itself even at the cost of killing those that created it. If the OWS movement had went after Washington with a preconceived plan such as the Tea Party had, to return to the Constitution for starters, it would have been accepted by many more Americans. But instead you attack the Business side and leave the problem in place. The Government made the Banks do questionable loans to people they knew couldn't afford them. To let someone buy a 700K house with no proof of income and then give them a 2nd on top of it is rediculas, but it was done thousands of times. I think the Banks were usful idiots as well because they thought they'd get the homes back in a booming housing market and make a killing on them. They got caught in their own trap. But I digress. WE can't be like the Middle East and just kick everyone out with no plan on where we want to go. That's why the OWS will flounder because the have no message except a bunch of what's in it for me. I have children and grandchildren and that's who I worry and bleed for. You can not sell anyone anything doing as I first said while holding your 4G and your Apple laptop, kissing Michael Moore's butt while smoking a joint and screaming redistribution of wealth. If someone in private business such as Steve Jobs can make a gazillian bucks, who are we to take it all from him? But if you are a member of Congress and the people are paying for you it seems immoral that you can spend millions on getting elected for a 175K job and come out of it years later worth tens of millions because of the abuse of power. That's where we must start. At the grass roots level. And let it be known we are not going to be fooled any more. I wish it could happen but everyone is looking for a free lunch. Greed is the common denominator. I grew up poor and abused myself and felt the world owed me something. Then I went to Viet Nam and saw how the kids over there were being raised and I realized I was blessed. There is no where else better than America. If you think there is than I suggest you go there and leave us alone. It's like the illegals mostly from MX. The Demogods protect them cause they'll always vote for more Government cause after all they got nothing for nothing at home. So they are used for votes and cheap labor. But do you know that if you use the "poorist" Mexican as the baseline there are over 500 million people in the world that are worse off then them? So we can't save them all as much as I wish we could. The best we can hope for is a strong and robust America.
So quit trying to get a free college education or go to a cheaper school. I got Viet Nam for a degree. But it helped me see the light. The OWS movement needs to see the light and realize that we first must take our Country back from the monster that lives in every house of our Government. We must insist that the media report the news without polluting it. Look before you believe. Insist on integridy. Restore our National Pride. Have pride in yourself and the land that gives you so much. Say the Pledge, sing our National Anthem. Don't blame the Doctor because you are sick. Organize and do as our Founders did. Those people risked certain death to create the Country we have let sail without a rudder for so long. Fight for Freedom not just somewhere that you can pitch a tent. They risked hanging if caught, the OWS risk getting their electronics wet when they take their tent away. But remember you haven't inheritated this Country from Generations before but you have borrowed it from Future Generations. If you get it wrong it will be wrong for a long time. Someone will not come back from the future to save America, we must do it ourselves.

[-] 2 points by Wired (16) 3 years ago

Thanks again for those words. I believe people like you are the hope of this country. The OWS is just another symptom of the problem America faces. The real solution is sober individuals with words of experience that can inspire us into action.

The Tea Party is reigniting for this upcoming election.

Remember, Liberty is too big to fail.

[-] 2 points by EricBlair (447) 3 years ago

Narrow agenda?

I thought we lacked focus and needed to issue a more specific set of demands?

You guys need to get your smears straight.

oh well...

[-] 1 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Why does the demand thing keep coming up? It is simple stop the corruption, greed and stop screwing the American people! Geesh

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

I agree with you on what we need to do, conflicting strains and narrow agendas within OWS are preventing us from issuing a focused set of demands. That's this Occupier's smear.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 3 years ago

What narrow agenda are you referring to?

[-] 3 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

Well, we've got communists, anarchists, socialists, disgruntled establishment types, etc ... reformists, revolutionaries, progressives. Only thing agreed upon is that things must change. Unified vision? Not even close. Attempts to appeal to the broader population? None.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

Look at the people you are associating yourself with. Another reason why the movement has no chance of success.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 3 years ago

I think she may have meant ideas that would only appeal to very, very few people. The board is littered with them.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 3 years ago

Hopefully she'll give us a clearer answer. Is she referring to people on here or people at Zuccotti Park I wonder?

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

People from my own Occupy Movement combined and Internet conversations. The poster advertising the Thanksgiving escalation is definitely going for something other than what even close to 99% of Americans would endorse. I'd say that the sentiment behind the red/black, Soviet, Red China aesthetic may appeal to 10% at the most. This move is going to alienate loads of potential sympathizers.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6885) from St Louis, MO 3 years ago

Thank you for the answer. I think a lot are going to agree about that poster. We realize it was an homage to Tienammin Square, but it might be backfiring. I agree with that dude from Canada that was suggesting some positive imagery for OWS from now on, at least on their posters.

[-] 1 points by protest (43) 3 years ago

Nichole, I agree with you. I am reposting my reply to another poster:

[-] struggleforfreedom80

Message to participants in the Occupy movement: In my new article ”The Transition Phase: The Road To Freedom” posted on my blog I share my thoughts on what to expect and what we should watch out for in the transition to freedom. Police brutallity is something we have to expect and I explain how we should deal with it.I also share my ideas as to what to do In general in order to achieve freedom and democracy. Please check it out. Thanks SFF

[-] protest

I think the majority of the people who support OWS do not support the goal of worker takeovers. If that is the real ultimate goal of this movement, why not express this in the "About" section? Make it clear. Perhaps the originators of this movement have one goal in mind, while the vast majority of the participants just want corruption of government addressed. A correction, not a tear down. They have joined simply because they want the influence of corporate money removed from our government. They want accountability. They want a restoration of the regulations that have been dismantled. It bothers me when people hide their real intentions. The about section only states: "OWS is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations." This is something many Americans would support. However they would not support anarcho-syndicalism.

[-] struggleforfreedom80

Its just my personal opinion, I dont speak on behalf of anyone. I think my arguments for a.syndicalism is good, so I hope more people will eventually agree with me. Thanks for thought and criticism

[-] protest

I understand. Everyone has a right to their opinions and views. Is it my misunderstanding that the originators of this movement have anarcho-syndicalism as the ultimate goal? (Red/Black/Fist/Direct Action) I just wonder if perhaps there should be separate protests where the goal is more along the lines of reversal of Citizen's United, campaign finance reform, accountability, regulation ect and those who have anarcho-syndicalism in mind. What do you think? Because the ultimate goal is not the same. I'm just trying to make a point that the goal should be clear so people really know what they are protesting for instead of hidden in symbolism.

[-] struggleforfreedom

"Is it my misunderstanding that the originators of this movement have anarcho-syndicalism as the ultimate goal?" I have not seen any polls or research on where most people involved in the Occupy movement stand political so I can´t answer that. I guess there are many different opinions, but It seems to me that many tend to lean towards libertarian left. "What do you think?" Its up to the people involved to decide where to go from here. "I'm just trying to make a point that the goal should be clear so people" I partially agree with this. I also talk about this in my article. " ..really know what they are protesting for instead of hidden in symbolism" I dont think theres anything hidden. The movement is still young. We must be patient and let the movement find out what the next steps should be. In my article I discribed my personal opinion as to what those should be

[-] 2 points by EricBlair (447) 3 years ago

you've gotten your grey/black propaganda all twisted

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_propaganda

You're contradicting yourself now...

Try harder, you'll need to be more convincing.

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 3 years ago

If you are not the 99% then why are you here wasting our time with your snide remarks? This forum should be devoted to people that are legitimately sincere in wanting a change in our system.

Its obvious that you can't have a "Freedom of Speech" forum when there are so many that are still brainwashed by our society where they ignorant and prefer to live in a bubble of existence.

We need a forum that keeps out all negativity that is against making America a fair justice system. Face it, freedom of speech is meant when everyone is brainwashed to agree with everyone else and if you don't agree, you are outcasted. This is reality!

[-] 1 points by SocialDemocratic (29) from St John, NB 3 years ago

Well people aren't gonna tell you a skeptic of occupy what there agenda is

[-] 1 points by flip (7633) 3 years ago

and where have you met them

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 3 years ago

The Federal Government is hiring! A lot! Got to USA Jobs. Google it. Also, Homeland Security is always hiring. If you go into the militart, when you get out , you will be trained for a Government job in Civil Service. That is what I did. But you must work hard.

[-] 1 points by Spankysmojo (849) 3 years ago

I understood that the most people complain that the agenda is too vivid. In other words, there is a general agenda that can be broken down into many smaller agendas. The gist is that 99% is fed up with the current state of affairs that is dictated by 1% of the population.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

Completey untrue though. Your cause assumes that it represents the way 99% of the country thinks.

[-] -1 points by Spankysmojo (849) 3 years ago

Moot.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

How is what I said moot? You said that 99% of the population was fed up with the current state of affairs that's is dictated by the 1%. I have never heard a more rediculous statement. Where exactly did you gather this data?

[-] 1 points by MsStacy (1035) 3 years ago

Are they though? Are they fed up? People do love to complain, but in spite of the talk about being part of the 99%, I don't see 99% of the population actually doing much more then living their every day life. The support from them doesn't seem to be more that a mild empathy. The objectives of OWS are often stated but they remain vague and the path to achieve them is more fuzzy still.

[-] -1 points by Spankysmojo (849) 3 years ago

I agree. I've said, countless times, that OWS needs pure leadership. I am proud of the movement and proud of every young interviewee on CNN and NBC. You are outspoken and anonymous. They cannot and therefore, will not win over the masses. OWS is a seed that is planted by the conscience of America. I pray it grows and flourishes, not only in the minds and hearts of Americans but in the deeds that they do and the unstoppable message it sends.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

the people in this movement need to spend more time trying to succeed and less time complaining about what they don't have. Freedom means free to succeed and free to fail not guaranteed to succeed.

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[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 3 years ago

Narrow agenda... ? Democracy for ALL people is a narrow agenda?

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

They already have that!

[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 3 years ago

No, they don't. Their government is bought. The people have no voice at all unless they have money. That is not democracy for all...

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

Then I suppose you should just throw up your hands, give up, and just sit there and wait to see what your fate is!

[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 3 years ago

Wha? No, I'm doing a lot. I'm part of a coalition trying to ban fracking in my town and others around me. I'm participating in local, community meetings and I'm growing my own food. Yours was a terrible idea =)

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

Good for you. Most people don't have the motivation to do anything but sit around and complain. I think most problems can be solved on a local level if people like yourself do those kind of things.

[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 3 years ago

I got voted down for doing those things =)

Strange what's happening to this forum.

[-] 2 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

You can't worry about what the people on here think. You just have to continue to do what you think is right.

[-] 1 points by Democracydriven (658) 3 years ago

What do you call their narrow agenda?

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

"Their" referring to those who are speaking the loudest, tacitly promoting violence, primarily those who are raising red and black flags above us all.

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[-] 0 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 3 years ago

Funny, most people are saying there is no agenda and it is driving them crazy. Most people are trying to pin this down. You, on the other hand, see something different. A narrow agenda. What is the narrow agenda, if you don't mind me asking?

[-] 0 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 3 years ago

It was never meant to mean that the occupiers represented the 99%. Why do you trolls persist with believing that nonsense? It ONLY means that like it or NOT were all part of that 99% and the 1% ( the Plutocracy) doesn't give a flying f*ck about us anymore. That 30% of u are 1% ass kissers is a given. Its obvious since your all in here shilling for the them 24/7.

[-] 0 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

30% is even a modest estimate of the 1%'s ass kissers. oh no, certainly not one of them, these are the most difficult people to convince. I know because I've tried. I think a lot of it has to do with identity and working-class shame.

[-] 0 points by Beezelbub (6) 3 years ago

members of your 99% have raped, robbed and put graffiti on a 9/11 memorial (nothing like pissing on dead fellow americans). you do not represent me.

[-] 0 points by Gbus (80) 3 years ago

Agenda?

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[-] 0 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 3 years ago

Either they have a hidden agenda and do not care, or cannot grasp what they are doing wrong.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

since when is expressing oneself in an open forum dangerous?

[-] -2 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 3 years ago

I am not talking about what is taking place on this forum.

[-] -1 points by queenann (-220) from New Rochelle, NY 3 years ago

Bingo Nichole ! (I love this song) I squinted my eyes and I stood up slow Turn, turn, turn again With no other choice except for me to go Turn, turn, to the wind and the rain

I walked down the hall And I heard his door slam Turn, turn, turn again I walked down the stairs But I did not understand Turn, turn, to the wind and the rain

And I played my guitar Through the night and through the day Turn, turn, turn again But the only tune That my guitar would play was oh how cruel The Wind and the rain

[-] -1 points by stopbanningme (7) 3 years ago

wow excellent post!

[-] -2 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Well, since you are on this page have you bothered to read the "About" section here? Have you educated yourself with such websites as: theeconomiccollapseblog.com? to see why we are fighting and 'trying' to stand up for the people?

[-] 4 points by Gbus (80) 3 years ago

"The People" are more then fucking capable to stand up for themselves! Who the Fuck made OWS in charge of what Americans want?!

[-] 1 points by pitmaster (16) 3 years ago

I agree; and as I've previously stated, OWS is good, fun entertainment. Beats watching Arab's blow each other up every night

[-] 1 points by MissBirdy (-78) from Thornwood, NY 3 years ago

good point. Think they are lot of weird exhibitionists.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

don't people have a better way of sticking up for themselves when they form groups, which form coalitions?

[-] 1 points by DudleyE (94) 3 years ago

Right on right on right on! I'm as pissed off at greed and corruption as the next guy. But these degenerates I see on the tube don't speak for ms at all, they are disgusting and I'm glad their getting cleaned out.

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 3 years ago

how are they in charge? they've given you a message board, say what it is that YOU want

[-] 0 points by mandodod (144) 3 years ago

I think you young folks should work hard and strive to get a WRX STI sports car. If you set a goal, you will get what you want. But you must work hard. Thats what I did. Rember, a cool car is everything!

[-] 0 points by mandodod (144) 3 years ago

All my friends are "the people". We are happy with our BBQ life. Look for the sales on Black Friday!

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 3 years ago

some body is in charge of knowing what america wants? please tell me who so I can tell him the good news. I got ninety nine problems but lack of love ant one. If you got social anxiety, I feel bad for you son.

If the poor would respect the middle, they would want to help. If the rich were not loosing their standard of living, they would not eat the middle's lunch. if the taxes were progressively fair, then the poor would have money to buy the middle lunch, and the rich would not be tempted to reduce the value of the currency. Social engineering is not rocket science it is respect. good day

[-] -1 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

OWS is the people including me a 64 year old woman!

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

OWS is only a small percentage of the people.

[-] 1 points by Beezelbub (6) 3 years ago

you support rape? you support damaging a 9/11 memorial? your'e a real class act.

[-] -2 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Of course not, I have been raped six times in my life and rape happens every day. I look at the 9/11 memorial as an insult to the people and the people that died. Why were we attacked? Any idea? Do you support the millions of innocent people America has killed overseas for oil and power? I support what the "about" page states on this website and more.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

Your math is way off. Millions? OMG!

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 3 years ago

So since rape happens every day and happened to you it's okay? I'm beginning to think you are one of those guys who plays female characters in WoW.

[-] 0 points by Beezelbub (6) 3 years ago

we were attacked because we double deal. constantly. who did we support during the aghan-soviet war? do you know how much money our government gave bin laden? ive got no problem with the ows protests it's a way to let our elected officials see the discontent. the real problem is how we vote. a real protest would be for every registered voter to for anyone without a d or an r by their name. thats a real protest.

[-] -1 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

The bottom line is because the American Empire keeps trying to take over the whole world, steal their resources and push their ideals on everyone and it is us the little people that pay. It's called the war business! So yes, you kind of have a grasp of what is going on. Your other point has merit too. Peace

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 3 years ago

Roflmfao,take over the world. Sounds like an episode of Pinky and The Brain. What country have we taken over?

[-] 0 points by Beezelbub (6) 3 years ago

i 'kind of' have a grasp? it's not only america doing this to other countries its england, france, etc etc. wake up we're not the only elitists on the planet. you can march until you turn blue real change comes from your vote.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Do you believe our voting matters and if so then why the situation we are in? I guess you have more of a grasp then I do. I am not familiar with other countries. So everybody plays this game huh? Geesh, why can't we just live and let live?

[-] 1 points by Beezelbub (6) 3 years ago

i can't believe you asked that question. we're in this situation because people like you keep voting for the same parties and people (democrats and republicans) over and over even given their pathetic performance. you want change then quit being a sheep. do you really think this protest is having an impact? it won't because in november you'll go to the polls and vote for the same idiots you voted for 2, 4, or 6 years ago!

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

No, I was being sarcastic when I asked that question. (-: Honestly, I have been disgusted with the political system for many years and I have to confess I have only voted twice in my life. Once to get Bush out which did not work and the second time I was duped into believing Obama. No, in my good conscious, going to the polls would be condoning what is and I will not do that.

[-] 1 points by Beezelbub (6) 3 years ago

lol the printed word can have be interpreted incorrectly. my apologies. that's my point; bush obama etc are all bought and paid for. real change only comes from changing our leadership. our politicians and wall st are so intertwined you can't tell where one ends and the other begins. can you imagine the shock our politicians and wall st would get from a nationwide vote out of our two major parties? we need new blood that's not on wall streets payroll.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Do you think the "new blood" will ever happen. Just read this news item: As Zuccotti Park Is Cleared, Congress Moves to Gut Financial Reform

www.huffingtonpost.com/mary-bottari/zuccotti-park-financial-reform-gop_b_1095212.html?ref=politics&ir=Politics

[-] 1 points by Beezelbub (6) 3 years ago

thank for the link karen. not surprised about the eviction or the move to roll back legislation keeping big business in line. to be honest, no, i don't think new blood will ever happen. the partisanship in our country is so overwhelming and voter knowledge so underwhelming the status quo will remain. our sad reality is it's not democrats vs. republicans (both are deep in corporate pockets) anymore it's us vs. them. but when you think about it every nation on this planet has the same hierarchy: the wealthy and the rest. for myself i do the only thing i can do, i don't vote democrat or republican and i won't be having any children.

[-] 1 points by Beezelbub (6) 3 years ago

there wasn't a "reply" option for your last post. thanks karen and take care of yourself - it was a pleasure.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

I was a lot happier young and ignorant ... Going to bed ... )-:

[-] 1 points by Gbus (80) 3 years ago

I disagree with my family all the time......

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

? I do not understand.

[-] -1 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Really??? Then why is America in the situation it is in?

Watch your mouth and go educate yourself please! theeconomiccollapseblog.com

[-] 0 points by Gbus (80) 3 years ago

Why the fuck (i'm swearing because you are insulting my intelligence and it's pissing me off!) do you assume I'm not aware of the corruption, lies, deceit, and thievery happening in the system today, THAT's where you are going wrong..... Educate myself?...please you say?....you snarky little knowitall smart ass, to answer your question instead of swearing at you for a minute, America is in the position it's in today because America as a country is the victim of a few families who's interests is to control the planet and get filthy rich while doing it, so instead of trying to figure out who exactly the crooks are and holding them accountable (which btw is public information) you insult the majority of Americans with this bullshit about being retarded slave sheep Zombies!..which may be true.....but it's anyones free choice to learn or NOT learn what they so choose to! you should be starting a corporation of your own and create some jobs! "Occupy Wall Street" INCORPORATED, you can move your moonshine money through your corporate personhood and employ like 10,000 people to walk around with cardboard signs and enlighten Americans !.....people will change when their ready!......

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Okay. Thanks for taking the time to post me back. So I see you are educated ... good! One statement you made that I agree with and disagree with: "you insult the majority of Americans with this bullshit about being retarded slave sheep Zombies!..which may be true.....but it's anyones free choice to learn or NOT learn what they so choose to! " Yes, it is true regarding Zombies except most people are just to busy trying to survive, playing with their toys and materialism. There is so much distraction out there that people do not have time to think for themselves not to mention that the American people have given control in many areas of their lives to others ... hell, we cannot even feed ourselves. What would happen if the grocery store shelves were bare? I have to disagree with it is anyone's free choice to learn or not with the state our country is in. We need to take action or lose our country. Thanks for the conversation ... no, I do not want to appear as a smart ass. I just care about the average joe .. the people so I apologize.

[-] 1 points by notentitled (125) 3 years ago

Once again you are generalizing about how most people live. I doubt you have taken the time to go out and see if what you are saying is true. Even if it was possible, it would still not satisfiy you because it would not be how YOU think they should live. When are you people going to get a clue and realize that this country is the land of the free. That means free to succeed and free to fail not guaranteed to suceed. That is why so many people came here from other places where they had no opportunity. All they wanted was a chance to make it on their own without someone else telling them what to do. Get with the program and participate in the system or move to another system you like better!

[-] 2 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

uh, yes, well aware, and I would like it if more of the Occupiers were discussing these issues and developing actual strategies rather than clinging to camping spaces and putting their lives seriously at risk.

[-] 1 points by MyHeartSpits (448) 3 years ago

They are discussing those things every day... and it's their choice to put their lives at risk.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

I see I did not really answer your question ... except that it takes time. Do you have any suggestions on how to enlighten the rest of the 99%? I am fairly certain that the American economy will fall and I would like that not to be what gets them on board.

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

Patience, encourage patience among the most passionate. Don't go all or nothing because then we are only guaranteed nothing. Incremental demands, attempt to reclaim our voice in Washington first. If that doesn't work....? Recognize the legitimacy of of our demands (I get the sense that the more radical elements believe what we are doing is bad, against the law). Education. Anti-corporate consumer-capitalist campaign this holiday season, for example. Articulate our grievances, see Cornel West and Chris hedges mock trial -- brilliant!!! We are fighting corporatism/fascism. Recognize that communism and anarchism only fanned the flames of fascism in the past -- very lousy track record as it applies to our current situation.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Thanks! I love your statement (I get the sense ... bad, against the law), but they think nothing over criminality going on in both systems, our economy and the terrible war. Is there something wrong with this picture? I don't get it except maybe they only listen to main stream media. I suggested (before I realized what the occupy people were doing) that instead of "camping out" they should use their donations to rent halls, advertise to the 99% with informative information and facts and invite them to a hall assemblies. I suggested everyone should go home to their jobs and support their economies. I like the holiday season idea too as well as Black Friday. This is a way to voice our voice. It will have to take some sacrifice for sure to achieve the end result. See, we need people like you in their assemblies! I am not familiar with Cornel West ... I will goggle it. I do not understand your first sentence regarding patience as a way of attracting the 99%?

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 3 years ago

Not necessarily to attract, but as a means to maintain our own composure when the going gets difficult. Don't expect any forms of instant gratification -- this alone will take a reversal of our current cultural conditioning. Definitely check out the mock trial -- and circulate!!!

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

lol I love your mind! I will check it out ... Peace

[-] 1 points by OLLAG (84) 3 years ago

I don't think the economy will fail. The US has been in this position before and pulled through. Its not like when the US economy does eventually fail that all anarchy will break loss. Many nations have dropped and come back up without much problems.

[-] 1 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Oh, I sure hope you are right, but I do not think so. This is a world financial crisis. I sure hope they do not succeed in the elimination of the middle class in America too. Right now there are not enough jobs for everyone and at best I do see a lot of changes taking place in America that many Americans will not like. Again I pray you are right.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 3 years ago

Look the occupation is only two months old. Please give these young people some credit for "standing up". Maybe camping is not the answer and I somewhat agree except I think I have finally figured out why they are doing it. I think it is a symbol for the people taking back their land and country. I am sure they are discussing the issues, but I think first on the agenda is enlightening the 99% as to what is really going on and getting them on board. They (1%) have divided the American people in the past to control everyone and we/you can accomplish nothing if you the people are divided. Together we have to demand the end of corruption in our financial system and governmental system, fire or arrest who is responsible and take our country back. Do you really think what has been building for the last 50 years can be solved in two months? I am a 64 year old woman and I am standing behind what OWS is about because I know they have been enlightened to the truth.

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