Forum Post: Don't let the propaganda eat your brain. This government did not begin when you woke up.
Posted 12 years ago on June 25, 2012, 11:05 a.m. EST by HempTwister
(667)
from Little Rock, AR
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I finally figured out a large part of the problem with Occupy is that so many are so damned young. You guys have just discovered politics and government and think, OMG!, look at the terrible government that Obama created. And look how imperfect he is. He does not do everything the way I think it should be done. Well, let me clue you in. It has been this way my whole life. This is the best President we have had in my lifetime. By a long shot. You might make an argument for Eisenhower but that was boyhood for me. The main complaint against Eisenhower was that he did not do anything. But then these were the glory days of the middle class.
So you are going to pout because Obama signed the NDAA. Or used banking experts to watch the banks. Or accepted money from Wall Street. And did not pitch a fit and pout for single payer health care. Or ... whatever. Pick one.
And stay home or vote third party. That will show him! Next time... Oh, wait. There will be no next time. No, you will get Romney. And he will apply what he learned at Bain to our economy. Eight years later, because he will get credit for the economic growth that is already taking place, you will be in your thirties and wondering what the hell has happened to your country. Man, that Obama guy is gonna be looking really good at the end of another eight years of Fascist rule.
Reality sucks. Sorry. https://www.facebook.com/WarOnWages/posts/310401679041612?ref=notif¬if_t=feed_comment
Man I tell you, I'm REALLY glad to hear someone speak up like this. I am not the biggest fan of Obama. He has done quite a few things I don't agree with. But I do believe that you are right about him being a very good President who at least APPEARS to have the best interest of We The People in mind. He is trying to govern during extraordinarily difficult times, and much of those troubles he inherited from W. But people have short memories and tend to forget those things ("what have you done for me lately?").
If Obama is not re-elected, I do believe that presidential historians will eventually look on him favorably (if he doesn't screw-up big time like Nixon or something). No, I don't look at him through rose-colored glasses, and I find some of his Executive Orders more than a little disturbing. But unless one is inclined to favor conspiracy theories and other nutty stuff like that, I have to have faith that he is trying to act in the best interest of the country. We are not privy to the inner workings of Presidential administrations while Presidents are in office. After they leave office the basis for decisions that are made are sometimes made public and sometimes not.
But let us never forget that Congress is the real problem. They make the laws and they have the power to make changes or do nothing. The Prez only affirms or denies those actions through signing into law or vetoing. Most of the problems in this country over the course of the last several decades have been Congress' fault, not Presidents. But it is easier for the American Public to focus on the Prez than Congress because there are hundreds of them and only one Prez. He makes the ideal scapegoat to blame for everything.
Best I can figure about half of our Occupy was Obama haters. Some from TP, but most were RP guys. They tried and almost turned us into a Ron Paul thing. But AMEN on the Congress. The President just does not have the power to do much other than the SCOTUS nominations. Which is HUGE. You gotta work this thing from the bottom up. Gotta take it back city, county, state and Congress. The TP guys made one hell of a mess. Tentacles everywhere. And the folks they elected are... Well, you know. Look at poor Wisconsin. And Michigan, eek. And Florida.
Thankfully they did not bring all that ALEC legislation to Arkansas, yet. ;p
Re. "Propaganda", I append for your consideration :
"Television is the most powerful weapon of psychological warfare in history and yet it is a member of the family in most households. The programming that we are constantly assaulted with conditions us to a particular worldview. This fake reality changes our behavior making us less active and more compliant with society's shortcomings.
Since television is controlled by a small handful of powerful corporations, viewers will never witness informing, truthful news and entertainment. As political and corporate power unite at an ever increasing rate, being informed is more important than ever.
People need to seek out independent and alternative unbiased sources on the internet for their information or we will continue to be manipulated by the corporate controlled media."
fiat lux et ipsa scientia potestas est ...
AMEN. And we have the best propagandists in history working it. And loads of them. Luntz is very good.
Therefor no one should feel bad about being a victim. Unless you fail to question what you think you know. Just found out the mandate is pretty much bogus. $100 fine but you don't have to pay it. I thought I was keeping up with that stuff.
It is not about "showing him" (Obama),. it is about coming to the realization that supporting a president who lies, and does not keep his simplest of promises, (closing gitmo on day one, etc.),. and continues and expands the military/police state, and wars on many things, drone murders, and expanded secret military/CIA operations, that do nothing good at all, and are counter to basic human rights and democracy,. is not a good thing.
Real change is possible. The lesser evil,. is STILL EVIL! Do not wast your effort working for the broken 1% system,. instead, start building new alternatives today. (if you have time, and can hold your nose well,. sure vote for for the lesser evil,. just don't believe for a second, that is the end of it, or will bring much change.) If we side step the system and build something new, we can just let the old wither and die, while we create and grow a new human community, with real participatory democracy,. no more 'representative' government,. history shows this not to work.
Everything is a "lesser evil!" Claiming otherwise is delusional and/or misleading.
Cons are a Citizens United dark money shit load worse than Dems. What many disenchanted or newbies are bemoaning is a government/political system that we have neglected. It's been picked up by the 1% (PTB) via their RepubliCon followers. All we have to do is turnout the vote [like they do] and we can clobber them with democracy; the weapon our forefathers left us for this very tyranny! Ignoring this for "alternatives" is sabotage, espionage, or just fucking stupid!
Wake up! This is Class War!
http://articles.boston.com/2012-06-24/metro/32379941_1_delegates-and-alternate-delegates-republican-caucuses-state-caucuses
Dear Top Percent, I want time above all things - can you offer me a way to still live my life, more than enough just to scrape by and not struggle, and enough time left for myself in each day so I can enjoy the planet and life I was born into? Your offer is ok for the life that's been pre-determined and way corporations think we should live, but it's not a good enough solution. While you offer the opportunity not to starve, you don't offer the opportunity to get ahead, sleep soundly, enjoy time before life is over, or to provide enough not to worry about bills slipping behind or taking care of our families. How is this not indentured servitude? When there is nothing extra, and no extra time, only enough to allow me to continue to serve you all my days and not starve? You offer no opportunity for savings - your pay does not meet the demands of the set cost of living that the monopolies are determining. All you offer is a slow death. That is not living. This reminds me of peasants and "Noblemen" taking away our ability to sustain ourselves and then "allowing" us to work for them so we don't starve. But nothing we make belongs to us, nothing we earn is ours, it is only to sustain YOU.. in truth your offer is an offer for us to give up our lives and sustain you...while gaining nothing tangible in return. IF you hadn't first contributed to the death of our ability to sustain ourselves then perhaps you could be seen as a sort of provider, but that ability was stolen by your kind and Wall Street and now you're only offering to sell back what was taken against our will.
Dear government officials, why do you sell out your people?
You have it backwards! We the People forsake our government officials!
Big Biz & $ turnout a guaranteed Billion%! We are lucky to squeeze out 40%. Have you ever heard the phrase, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease."? Start squeaking and turnout the Vote!!
"Dear government officials, why do you sell out your people?" They don't have much choice. They have to spend half their time raising money for the next campaign. Most of them hate that.
I want them spending that time on our business. It is what they want, too.
Better than slavery. You have to provide slaves with room and board and healthcare. Current wages are cheaper.
https://www.facebook.com/WarOnWages Trying to find their policies that do not put downward pressure on wages.
If Obama is the "best president ever" why was he so quick to bail out rich bankers who continue to pay themselves millions in bonuses, (as if they somehow have earned it) at our future peril? That is the worst decision any president could have made, if he had a inkling of wisdom, he should have let the banks fail, and buy back america from the banks and give it to the people, I am speaking of the land and homes on it, for every time we try to buy a home, we first have to buy one for the bank before we ever can own one. (in case you cant see it) This is all evident in the unfair pay the majority of interest to the bank first for 30 years even if we only live in the house for 5. The problem is the banks also take an unfair advantage by leveraging out their money 900%. They are the hogs that are eating up america! and obama couldnt see it.
Bushs signature (not Obama) is on the Bank bailout. Your premise is incorrect. Sorry! Anything else.?
Obama's signature, not Bush's, is on NDAA 2012, HR347, HR658, HR3606, and the death-by-drone warrants of thousands of innocent civilians in countries with which we are not "at war". Sorry! Anything else?
Pres Obama really cannot veto the military budget that passed with veto proof majorities. That is what the 1% wants. They can then perpetrate the "weak on defense" label they have attached to dems to win elections. Pres Obama did change the right wing ndaa auth to be squarely in the White House, so that he could rescind its use with an executive signing statement, which he did, and hasn't invoked this right wing violation of constitutional rights!. Pres Obama put up no fight when this law was brought to court by the great aclu and journalists. The law has been struck down by the court and the Pres has not challenged it. Done. Last month the dems offered an amendment to repeal this right wing violation of our constitutinal rights and the repubs defeated the dem repeal. You dont comlain about that because I guess you are just a partisan anti dem, pro repub plant. You ain't kiddin anyone but yourself!
This is an outright LIE:
"Pres Obama put up no fight when this law was brought to court by the great aclu and journalists."
This remains to be seen:
"The law has been struck down by the court and the Pres has not challenged it."
This was all political theater...
"Last month the dems offered an amendment to repeal this right wing violation of our constitutinal rights and the repubs defeated the dem repeal."
...to cover up the bipartisan crimes of NDAA 2013:
http://open.salon.com/blog/watchingfrogsboil/2012/05/31/ndaa_12_indefinite_detention_ndaa_13_domestic_propaganda
And this is more LIES:
"You dont comlain about that because I guess you are just a partisan anti dem, pro repub plant. You ain't kiddin anyone but yourself!"
Fact- Pres Obama offered no witnesses against the ndaa case that he lost.
fact- Pres Obama has said they will not challenge, and they have not challenged. What are you waitin to see?
Fact- It wasn't political theater. No one knows about it. No dem talks about it. It was a real effort to repeal your right wing anti constitutional violation. And dems have done it many time before, on many other right wing repub anti constitutional rights policies. Your pretense that it isn't happening shows your partisanship.
Fact- More progressives will correct the right wing policy mistakes our govt has made. It is the only way. Vote out right wing pols (dem and repub!)
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FO vvv! Cognizance is not a prerequisite for SABOTAGE!
You are either a RW hack or newbie or both.
Yeah, UR a RW Hack!! or ignoramus newbie! Either way Fuck Off!!
I am not saying that Obama is that great. Just saying that the others were worse. Sad, but true.
First is was not Obama who bailed out the banks. That happened before he took office. But it was necessary because it was OUR money at stake. This was a very major, world class economic panic. He did nail some CEO bonus stuff. As long as they still owed us bailout money. They hated that! Gave them great incentive to pay us back quickly. There are some really good books on this. And the Bernanke lectures at GWU are very good and are online. Even captions. The first two are history. The Fed learned some hard lessons last time the shit hit the fan. The third one is about the recent crisis. Then boys was doing some serious hopping try to keep everything afloat. ;p
it was obama and goldman sach's executives who met BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, and two weeks after threating our country with Martial Law, look how quickly congress reversed its decision and started handing out checks to the rich bankers, who continue to take the lions share of our income with unfair upfront interest charges!
Rest assured, the banks didn't pay back the money, we the people did , as we have to pay 80% of our mortgages to banks just in interest payments for the first few years when we buy a house! that combined with their unfair leveraging of 900% of their deposits, is unfair business practice!
Hell give me 900% leverage of my money and I bet I can pay off my home and keep all the money I earn!
i think it would have been funny to let them fail, just like any other business, then a peoples bank would have formed to replace them, ones more friendly to business, ones who actually loan money to business, cause they never loaned me more than 10k, when i get contracts awarded for up to 100k. there is no way for me to finance them. their measly 10k didnt do shit to help my small business. I can do without them! besides if the homes were lower cost or paid for, we wouldnt have to struggle as much to have extra money on the table for our families, $%^# the big banks, it would have been better to let them fail!
To ignore the reality that the bank bailout was a Bush plan for his right wing friends right before the election as a last "gift" to them is dishonest. You MUST know better. The repubs were also trying to affect the election (look at the timing, right after the conventions). Anyway, Pres Obama should have/would have done more if the repubs hadn't watered down dem fin reforms and continue to obstruct and delay implementation of fin reform. Some dems usually betray their progressive princiles and cave in to vote for right wing policies. But WE have to be smart enough to realize that it IS right wing policies at the center of our problems.
Bullshit, VQkag2. Obama is OWNED by Wall Street, just like Romney and the rest of them:
http://open.salon.com/blog/watchingfrogsboil/2012/03/22/federal_reserve_bank_of_dallas_advises_we_must_end_too_big
What did that say?
The wall st money this cycle is going to Romney and your repub friends. Not the dems. Wall st criminals hate the watered down (because of your repubs) fin reform that dems passed despite repub obstruction and are struggling to implement in the face of repub delay tactics. You ignore these facts because you are clearly a republican plant.
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Bull Shit, vvv0627, the "both parties are the same" ploy, is RW hackery!!
vvv = Rustybuttbruce.
Of course he is gonna attack that is what he (sold his soul) gets paid for.
Oh, so you know he is a paid RW hack (Troll) and he is espousing the same "both/same" rhetoric that many "apolitical" posters post. Doesn't it make you think and wonder?
"Hell give me 900% leverage of my money" You forgot the almost 0% interest part. Hell, they were borrowing that and buying treasuries. Free money! When we can borrow millions from the fed at 0.25% interest then the game will be a little more fair. ;p
Listen up Newbies, the POTUS ~ especially a Dem who is not a complete stooge for the PTB in 1% ~ does not control "things." The PTB does! Cons work for them, so when they do what they're told, they seem in control. Dems could do what FDR did, but that takes public support. In 2010 we proved to Obama to be as reliable as a puppy mill poodle. So we get compromises! You want more/better? Start turning out Votes like Big Biz & $ do!! Or STFU!! Enjoy the Class War!!
frankly you have a choice of the choiceless. yoi have to pick up between 2 evils.
That is life. A series of choices of the lesser of two evils. I can't ever remember getting to pick between two perfect choices.
Obama the best president in a long time? On international affairs, he is a clone of George Bush. What has he done differently?
I don't see any change to believe in. Just the same shuffle between the same two parties every 4 to 8 years.
If anybody wants to see some real change, vote for anyone except the same two parties. If we send the same message of cowardice, we will pay dearly. Get off your four legs and stand up like a human being and vote with courage for once!
You won't change the mind of a Lemming but you can try. Blind faith = Lemmings - A doomed conformist: a member of a large group of people who blindly follow one another on a course of action that will lead to destruction for all of them.
Vote against the two corporate parties
If no one speaks to the lemmings, their destruction is guaranteed, and us with them!
I know u r right. I suppose it's my frustration oozing. - .......experience hath shewn mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. DOI
DOI?
Declaration Of Independence
“and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.”
Interpretation:
And, in fact, history shows that people are more likely to put up with unbearable evil–they even get used to it!, than they are to correct the problem. In other words: Put a frog in hot water and he’ll jump out. But put him in cool water and gradually turn up the heat, and he’ll boil to death.
http://thebsreport.wordpress.com/2009/07/04/the-declaration-of-independence-what-does-it-mean/
DOI. Some of the greatest words ever written!
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
We came across a modern-language version of the Declaration of Independence, anonymously posted on a Web site. We made a few changes, and are publishing this simplified version in the hopes it will help a new generation grasp the meaning of what we celebrate today.
Actual phrases of the Declaration of Independence are enclosed in quotes, with the modern translation in a normal font.
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another …”
Whenever a group of people needs to separate themselves from their government …
“… and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them …”
… and assert their universal and God-given independence and equality…
“… a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
It’s important to clearly state the reasons why.
“…We hold these truths to be self-evident…”
We think it’s obvious…
“… that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights …”
…that God created every person equal, and He gave each person specific unchanging rights that should never be trampled upon…
“… that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness …”
these include the right of the people to live life in freedom without undue harm, and pursue their dreams and goals.
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed …”
The very reason we have man-made governments is to protect these rights, not to interfere with them. Furthermore, whatever power and authority governments have are given by the people’s permission and limited to their protection.
“…That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it …”
When any government starts to undermine the very purpose of protecting the life, freedoms, and happiness of the people, then they have the right to change the government or even to pull the plug on the government if things get too bad.
“…and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
The people have the right to set up a new and better government based and organized upon tried and true principles that protect, rather than threaten, their safety and happiness.
“Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;”
It’s not wise to change a long-standing government for some trivial or fleeting reason or for the latest political fad;
“and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.”
And, in fact, history shows that people are more likely to put up with unbearable evil–they even get used to it!, than they are to correct the problem. In other words: Put a frog in hot water and he’ll jump out. But put him in cool water and gradually turn up the heat, and he’ll boil to death.
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
But when a government becomes tyrannical and abusive with consistent, repeated violations of the people’s rights, with the intent to make them slaves of the state, then the people have the right — in fact, the duty — to revolt and put new safeguards in place to protect their future rights.
http://thebsreport.wordpress.com/2009/07/04/the-declaration-of-independence-what-does-it-mean/
This is one of the better translations I've read. The old English is still much more poetic.
obama doesnt agree with you
It's mutual.
you're not alone.
Seems like a cult to me. Everyone else is lying to you. Believe only me.
"On international affairs, he is a clone of George Bush" The first thing Bush did was piss off three countries by calling them the axis of evil. The first thing Obama did was a speech in Egypt telling people that they could have democracy, too. Apparently they believed him. Clinton had cut a deal with North Korea not to build nukes. Bush nixed it and they built nukes. Then Bush took out the guy that was keeping Iran busy. Now Iran is free to be a much bigger pain in the ass. Jeez, I wish you had not reminded me of this Bush was a total disaster. He ignored several warnings of 9/11 then made ObL a super villain. Playing right into ObL's hands. You know I could go on and on and on. Too depressing.
Obama exited Iraq on the timetable set by Bush. Obama, the "nobel peace prize winner" is still fighting a war in Afghanistan. Guantanamo is not closed. Signs NDAA. I could go on and on.
When a person views the same actions by two men as different, one just and the other unjust, because one is a Rep and one is a Dem, there is something wrong with that person's vision.
Sigh, I wish those who keep bringing up Guantanamo would first get their facts straight.
Within 48 hours of being sworn in as President, Obama signed the documents for closing Guntanamo, Congress has since refused the funding to do so.
President Obama can NOT order the funds to be made available, that is a Congressional position.
Thank you. We must agitate for the congress to act!
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I seem to recall a search for a place to put them that came up empty. Seemed crazy to me.
You are correct, it was and is an issue.
You would think Gitmo was full of Hannibal Lecter's. I think that was fiction. ;p
Does moving the prisoners to another facility require congressional approval? That is all that is required to effectively close it.
Every alternative location refused the prisoners, the option of holding them within the borders of the US was rejected. No other country was willing to hold them yet none of those countries was willing to agree for them to go free.
The biggest problem was and is the financial issue. Moving them was not the issue, money was/is.
We can afford the money. They won't move the prisoners to U.S. soil because of the legal protection the prisoners will receive. Guantanamo is out of sight, out of mind.
Money isn't the issue, the simple fact is the money has to be allocated by Congress.
If they can not, for whatever reason, be 'housed' in the continental states and from what I've managed to find, no one else wants them excepting their country of origin, and it's not an option to send them home...there are no other options left.
What do they call that when you attack the person rather than the argument. We used to use that in grade school when we ran out of stuff.
Ad hominem. Against the man. My attack is against the standards the man uses. One for a Dem and one for a Rep.
I don't care what they call themselves. They can call themselves for dinner if they vote my pocketbook. Come to think of it my Tea Party representative came out for our amendment. Karl Rove Buddy. Stabbed his buddy in the back to get the U.S. Attorney job. Sound familiar? He is a Major Frank Burns clone. He actually has a chance of doing good things when he does his own thinking.
"vote for anyone except the same two parties" I tried that once. I got Bush and his Texas Ranger macho foreign policy of preemptive war. Which actually had been in the NeoCon playbook just waiting for a chance to unveil the Patriot Act. I got 9/11. Two unfunded wars off budget. At least three tax payer funded windfalls for his buddy's drug company. BTW, I don't see a third party candidate worth my vote.
And Obama continues the Bush legacy. The only way to defeat the two party stranglehold on our country is to not vote for it. I admire your courage to vote for someone not of the two major parties in 2000.
Did you fail back then? NO! The people who feel as you do now failed. It will take the courage of the majority to defeat the corruption that infests both parties. Continuing to vote for the false safety of the major party is what sheep always do.
Stand up on two legs and vote for someone who is honest and who will also stand against the corruption of the two parties. That person is out there. You can't hear his voice over the loud and powerful voices bought by the wealthy few. You will need to listen carefully for the quiet voice of reason.
I can't go back to the NeoCons. I don't want another war. My daughter is Army reserve. Can't go back to Voodoo economics. It took thirty years for the bubble to pop. Flat wages the whole damned time.
Can't have another Roberts on the SCOTUS. More Citizen's Untied crap for another twenty years? Sorry, just can't do it. Sounds really cool, though.
Tunnel vision: Seeing only two possibilities when there are really many.
Cause: Decades of brainwashing by the two major parties.
Ron Paul?
Many possibilities, not just 3.
Your vote does not count, anyway. You are in California. Now these Florida people. We can blame them if Romney gets in. ;p
Yes. It's already pretty much decided before our primary in June. But blame the people of Florida? I blame all of the people for allowing primaries to exist.
The primaries themselves are another corruption of our so called Democracy. What gives the right for private political parties to use public money to decide who to select as their candidate? And then give the authority of that choice to the early primary states.
It's hard to believe that most people don't see the complete absence of democratic principles in regard to the primary process. When we grow up in corruption, it's normalcy makes it hard to imagine what justice should be.
People are stupid. The will believe what they want to believe - Wizard's First Rule
Or they believe what they are taught to believe. The major fantasy being that we are a Democracy/Republic when in fact we are a Plutocracy/Oligarchy.
Ummm, maybe (except many of us will be older than our 30's in 8 years) :)
Yes we will! But I am in good shape whatever they do. But I have some precious grand babies. If their country sucks I want them to know that Grandpa went kicking and screaming. ;p
I'm not quite a grandpa yet .... but I'm not in my 20's either (but when I go to occupy meetings, there's people from all age groups, from 20 somethings [maybe even a few in their late teens] to 80 somethings). If I had to guess, I'd say 30 or 40 somethings are just as well represented as college age (early) 20 somethings.
It's a little different than the 60's, because even though some issues are the same, the core grievances concern economic issues. No one (that I'm aware of) was complaining about things like banking regulation back then (of course we had good banking regulation back then, so :)).
Carter didn't upset me but I was child then
Smart guy. He got hijacked. He was right about the oil.
who knew Iran would be so upset about the US installed Shaw?
Really! They are still pissed about that. Get over it, people. Democracy is only for folks who want to sell their oil in dollars. Wish we could make friends. The girls are soo hot. My rich friend has one working for him. He calls her is Persian Playmate. Not sure if he does that in front of her. She says, "Just get out of the oily sands! And they will go back to not bothering anybody." Smart, too.
Obama is the choosen one by the banking cartel, he's a lock for a second term.
He is much better at convincing populations that everything is OK than Romney is.
Just because you have seen more than most of us doesn not mean you have a clue. In fact, given your age, it is YOUR generation that has caused/allowed this mess to happen.
And we are going to be stuck with the bill.
Oh, sure. Blame it on the boomers. ;p Well we did get them riled up. They really hated that protesting stuff. The plan was to keep us so busy trying to make a living that we did not have the energy to protest. It worked. They got us pregnant. Kept our wages down.
But now the kids are grown and that double Social Security we have been paying is in the bank. We are Baaaack! The bills? We already paid ours. Paid for the Interstate system. Paid for a man on the moon. Paid for the war. If you want to know whose bills you are paying count back thirty years and ten years. That is the term on long term treasuries. Oh, and look at the interest rates you are paying. Then look at what you can get money for now. There has never been a better time to borrow and invest. If you can't get a good return on money under two percent you have no right to call yourselves capitalists. Remember when Cheney bought a few million Euros? Right before the Reagan bills were coming due and they were going to devalue the dollar so they could pay those bills with cheaper dollars. I am still pissed that Cheney did not send me an email on that. Asshat!
I can assure you there are no 32 yo in congress passing this nonsense lol.
I agree, if people can get past the fear mongering, there is a lot of money to made right now. Theres always opportunity, regardless of economies I guess.
Im not sure if there a special spot with the SS money in it. Im pretty sure if they can just print more and screw the next generation, they arent saving mine in a special little place, reserved for Jeremy Griffin.
Nope. SS is not a retirement plan. It is insurance. For you. If you break your neck. It is in Treasuries. 2.7 Trillion dollars worth. At a special rate. That is why Wall Street is busting a gut to get their hands on it. Can't blame them. I would handle that account for a really tiny commission. ;p
But what happens when all your dollars you put in are not adjusted for inflation apprrpriately? Like when Bush and Obama decreases the inflationary increase to the point of insult?
I would rather keep it and invest it myself.
You are supposed to put aside ten percent of every paycheck for retirement. How is that going
Fine, plus I work for myself, so I always have that going for me, doing pretty good.
The worst of the storm seems to be over, which is good. Time to go see how much flooding happened in the rest of town.
It blew over all my sunflowers :( But I guess if that is the worst of the damage, I did Ok.
"Just because you have seen more than most of us doesn not mean you have a clue."
The years have a funny way of forcing a little wisdom on you whether you like it or not. Kicking and screaming.
"And he will apply what he learned at Bain to our economy. Eight years later, because he will get credit for the economic growth that is already taking place, "
wouldn't applying Bain principles thwart the economic growth? how can doing the worst possible thing possiby result in economic growth to take credit for?
Borrow money from China to buy America. Bill America for the loan. Hammer workers for lower benefits and wages. Fire off all you can. Raid those juicy retirement funds. Sell all the good stuff that is easy to hock. Then if it is making a profit, sell it. Otherwise bankrupt and keep the swag.
That is the Bain way.
And if all that was done, how on earth would anyone have something good to take credit for 8 years later?
You don't see the inherent contradiction in your thought here? Really?
YES, I did a bit of stretching there. ;p But the economy has some momentum right now. I know business owners who are trying to put off hiring until after the election. And I doubt the Democrats would be as obstructionist as the Republicans are now. The economy will pick up after the election either way.
Then they would start turning the screws again. Screw the poor. Screw the middle class. Tax cuts for the rich. And they always figure out a way to run up the debt. They do that to make sure the Democrats don't have any money to spend on the people. The Democrats just pander to the people and buy votes by giving people things they like if you leave them any money or credit. This is called the Two Santa Claus strategy.
I disagree there is momentum in the economy. Didn't you see the last Q GDP growth? The most recent, dismal, jobs report. There may have been some, but this year there isn't any. I am certain dems would e obstructionists, but I don't this the GOP is now. The senate hasn't doe shit for 2-3 years. They can't even pass a budget. Yes, hiring should ncresse after the election or, possibly, spike a bit if Obamacare is deemed unconstitutional ("buy this product from that private company OR ELSE!!" can hardly be constitutional. Seems open and shut).
Your second paragraph is msnbc taking points. Both parties suck and both play games and have led us to this shitpile. One side thinks we can still afford to spend like we have and one side is passing bills in the house reflecting the reality that we can't, only to be ignored by the senate. Again, I think both suck, but right now the dems are not facing reality. The GOP is, at least, pretending to.
Talking points is it? OK, if you are not just jerking my chain I will address some of this. Shall I?
I can hardly wait.
"I am certain dems would e obstructionists, but I don't this the GOP is now."
If you are talking about abortion, women's healthcare, birth control, voter suppression, suppression of worker's rights, tax cuts for the rich, more corporate welfare, allowing more pollution then you are right.
Jobs or anything that protects or helps the underclass(99%) then you are wrong. Just check the votes in Congress.
This budget? http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=81§iontree=5,81
Or this one. http://paulryan.house.gov/Issues/Issue/?IssueID=56750
"If you are talking about..."
I'm not talking about any of those in particular, but of budgets and reform of entitlement. you know, the issues that actually matter and aren't threatened or invented.
Besides, where does "obstructionism" fit in with most of them? What laws proposed to better those situations are being obstructed?
"reform of entitlement" What does this mean?
"issues that actually matter" Matter to whom? How will they help you? Let me ask you something. I want to buy a new TV. Should I wait until the federal deficit is down? To what point?
I notice economic stimulus and job creation is not on your list. I guess that means you have a job. Or independent income.
Let me get this straight. You want less government services for your tax dollar? That is what spending cuts means. Less for your money.
How American is that?
I want the services to be commensurate with the cost. Currently, they are not. I want govt doing less, in line with the constitution, not more. The last thing these maniacs need is more money to spend so poorly on shit we don't need and can't afford.
Classic. I don't think we are supposed to agree on the role of government. ;p
Romney will grow the government and run up the debt which will stimulate the economy. Well, not Romney but his handlers will. How? The only way the Cons base will stand for it. War. They have been settting up Iran for years.
So despite everything he's said and done, and all the predictions of gloom and doom found in 1000s and 1000s of ows forum postings and the media in general, you think Romney is going to run up even larger debts, but it will make the economy thrive and so the GOP base will be furious with an economic boom so he will placate them by going to war with Iran because they like killing more than they dislike public debt?
You really have to think this shit through a little more. This is beyond absurd.
Nope, you got a step or two out of order. Crap, just Google the Two Santa Claus strategy and check a little history. See if you can find the last time the Republicans did not run up the debt. Deficits only matter when Democrats are in office. Check it out. ;p
So you can't put them in order and you want me to google something I've read about and history I am well aware of?
Well, it's not like you can defend that in any order you put it in, so...no surprise.
Do you deny that the Two Santa Claus strategy is at work?
don't expect me to answer a question when you've just ignored the one I asked first.
again:
Despite everything he's said and done, and all the predictions of gloom and doom found in 1000s and 1000s of ows forum postings and the media in general, you think Romney is going to run up even larger debts, but it will make the economy thrive and so the GOP base will be furious with an economic boom so he will placate them by going to war with Iran because they like killing more than they dislike public debt?
if you can't answer that without me accepting some strategy is at work, then you can't answer that.
"you think Romney is going to run up even larger debts" YES
"but it will make the economy thrive" It will be stimulative. It always is.
"and so the GOP base will be furious" NO! Not until Democrats get back in power.
"and so the GOP base will be furious with an economic boom" Or is it this? Hard to parse this. NO! But later they will say they never liked it.
"so he will placate them by going to war with Iran" NO! It has nothing to do with placating people. They won't need placating. They will be happy. It is the war with Iran that will allow him to run up the debt without complaint. He will roll out the fear and they will be afraid and so happy that he protected them from the evil doers. Sound familiar?
because they like killing more than they dislike public debt? Not because anything except they will accept the debt. But they do like killing. And they don't mind debt until their neighbor gets something that they don't.
There, I just jumped through all your hoops and you still have made no effort to understand what I am saying. Two Santa Claus?
http://hemptwister.blogspot.com/2010/03/two-santa-clauses-or-how-republican.html
But I would not recommend you reading that. You might not be able to handle the truth.
"And they don't mind debt until their neighbor gets something that they don't."
when did ows become the GOP base?
"There, I just jumped through all your hoops..."
hate to break it to you, but you didn't make anything any clearer. instead of what you did, you should have just listed these incredible events in the order you think they will happen in. right now, I have even less of an idea of what you are babbling about.
Run up the debt when you are in power.
Whine about the debt when you are not.
Run up the debt when you are in power.
Whine about the debt when you are not.
Run up the debt when you are in power.
Whine about the debt when you are not.
Run up the debt when you are in power.
Whine about the debt when you are not.
Ok, that's 2 in order. What about the rest?
WTF! I've been saying this for decades!
I've been attacked for saying it here.
Welcome OWS, glad you could make it, Unite and win!
Now try to tell these rose-colored bubbleheads that we are in the middle of a class war, and we are losing! And that Voting is the only way to stay alive! Because we have decades of democracy negligence to recover from!
Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!
We decided to do something. http://www.regnatpopulus2012.com/
Good deal - move to amend is also working a state by state campaign to end corpoRAT personhood. You should see if the two could dovetail in support.
We got one city so far. Working on Little Rock. On Personhood resolutions.
This - THIS - is how we reclaim our government - our country - our lives. Issues and grassroots support - taking advantage of our rights.
We have had some success on three local issues. city hall knows us. ;p No longer camping but very busy.
Camping was OK as far as it goes - It was a grand announcement - but what needs to happen is what you are doing - you are getting organized and applying the democratic pressure/power of the people.
Educate - pick a goal - push to achieve.
That's excellent!
But be careful, putting things on "ballots" suggests "Voting," and advocating Voting to achieve real change and progress (over, say, drum circles and anarchy) has made me quite a target. Watch your back, there is no fury like petulance, impotence and naivete scorned!
Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!
Unsolicited advice was not working. Decided to try some show and tell. ;p
You don't have to vote to make some changes.We have had some success on three local issues. Lost on keeping our site permit. Show up, ask to speak, make sense. Build coalitions.
We tried pouting and whining without much luck. ;p
Not above a little gloating, though. Our Sgt. Mac Miller in the white beard. If you want something done finding a sergeant is a good first step.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4qx-dlLNAU&feature=relmfu
Ultimately, we are eunuchs without our Votes.
What's the ";p"? What did you think of Winter's Bone?
When our enemies in this class war, Big Biz & $, guarantees a Billion% turnout on every election and We can barely break 40%, I suspect and defy any Voting discouragement whatsoever!
We need to Occupy the Election!
;p is a cheap smiley.
Trying to get people to stop talkin and start chalkin. Thought the "not vote" thing might get their attention. So many against doing anything which involves "the system"(something that might work).
I've been saying, cognizance is not a prerequisite for an effective saboteur.
The only way any of this amounts to a hill of beans is a massive influx of Votes.
Was WB true to AR?
Have not seen the movie. Looks like I need to look it up.
Great acting, lots of AR hill country.
There is a definition for the word "Insanity" and it is as follows:
Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Well, I must say if you think the Obimanation is the best president we have had especially in your lifetime.
Well, if that's the case then why is gasoline over $3.00 a gallon - why has he spent over 5 trillion dollars to shore up the economy and we are still over 8% and finally, why hasn't he stopped the war which by the way is a big issue.
Lets not forget the 7 trillion that the Feds spent seceretly. Yah, he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
The only thing he hasn't changed in doing is blaming Bush for the economy. Other then that, he has no accomplishments to brag about.
The elimination of Osama Benlauden was started under Bushes directives and it was intelligence and Navy Seals who killed him - not Obama.
The Healthcare plan that was passed when the dems had control of the house and senate is a joke and is going to be turned down by the Supreme Court Decision.
And where are the jobs - I guess it's Bushes fault that College Grads can't get a job that they feel they are entiteled to.
So, I guess you are right these young whiners have no right to whine for they are experiencing the best of times with the best president ever when it comes to how things are going in this country with regard to jobs and economy. .
And Romney will be an improvement how?
Well, if you like seeing the same thing over and over again with no results then vote for Obama.
Obama made big promises when he came into office and didn't deliver. If he was so smart and all so knowledgeable then why is he continually blaming others for the state of the economy.
If he was vote in on his ability to make change, he sure and hell bluffed a lot of the x and y generation into thinking he was the man.
Well time has proven how wrong he was and how ignorant to the fact he was that what he promised didn't come true.
But yet he still stands on the stump blaming big business and continues to promote "class warfare" against business and there are those who believe in what he says because they have never had business experience and are too stupid to realize what he is doing.
If you believe tax cuts for the rich and benefit cuts for everyone else is the way to stimulate an economy then you definitely need to be voting Cheap-Labor Conservatives.
What I believe is everyone has the opportunity to become successful - it may be a little more difficult now but it still can happen.
However I must say that having a debt of $25,000 before a person had their first real job, doesn't make any sense. It already puts a person at a disadvantage before they even start.
"There is a definition for the word "Insanity" and it is as follows: Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results."
Unless you are Max Planck.