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Forum Post: Don't Drink the Water

Posted 8 years ago on Jan. 10, 2014, 11:13 a.m. EST by shoozTroll (17632)
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[-] 4 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

The evil people of W. Virginia are now suing that patriotic company Freedom just because they dumped a few thousand gallons of nasty into their drinking water, and them liberal people are too girly to suck it up. They must all be commies down there. Poor Freedom had to declare bankrupt just to defend themselves from this socialist onslaught. Can Obama and our government, please come in a bailout Freedom so they can save jobs and corporate profits. Obama, you saved the banks; Now Freedom needs your help !

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

It's been pretty much dying since they let corporations take it over, starting with HTML 4.0.

[-] 4 points by elf3 (4203) 8 years ago

Shooz this is different it means they can block any website they choose...they can censor the content it means an information blackout ...please research net neutrality! Dc court ruled Wednesday it's a matter of time now!

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

anyone can build an internet net hub

[-] 2 points by elf3 (4203) 8 years ago

I doubt this but if you can u can't use the RF Spectrum without paying up ....

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

the communication spectrum is much greater than analog radio frequency

[-] 2 points by elf3 (4203) 8 years ago

Great glad u have it all figured out...ease my mind tell me what can be done?

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

Sep 17, 2013 - The President of Brazil, Dilma Rousseff announces publicly the creation of a world internet system INDEPENDENT from US and Britain

I can't find the latest gee wiz

but any computer can function as a server

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

This is what libe(R)topians do.

Do you think they'll be blocking the lies of FLAKESnews?

Who lobbied for this?

[-] 2 points by elf3 (4203) 8 years ago

It's corporations and the rest of us Congress and the courts and the regulatory boards represent Wallstreet are you fighting that or are you fighting for the idealized version of a party that left us long ago? Fuck them all!

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

and that will do exactly what?

This has so little to do with W. Virginia's polluted water supply, I don't know what else to say.

[-] 3 points by elf3 (4203) 8 years ago

It means in a matter of time weeks maybe months stories like this chemical spill will never even be known Wallstreet owns the lines of communications now the court has decided they can censor them what do you think is going to happen when this website is blocked ? When you can only get the news when you are wealthy? There will be no mass movements there will be no Occupy!

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

What can I say, that I haven't already said?

Welcome to libe(R)topia.

They didn't spend billions over the past few decades, buying up court systems and infecting entire States, for nothing.

Take heart though, as this will likely be appealed.

Just hope it makes it's way to court that's not already in AT&T's back pocket.


[-] 3 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

Have you heard about the tanks leaking radiation next to the Columbia River at the Hansford Nuclear waste facility in Washington State?

I understand the U.S. government is spending something like over billion bucks a year trying to contain it.

Don't drink the water out there either.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

It was already talked about here on the forum.

This just happened.

Try and keep up.

BTW, Did you hear about Fukushima?

[-] 4 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

Didn't mean to detract from the latest event; ' apologize if I did. Just meant to emphasize there is all this other crap on going too; that the industrial-government complex is out of control.

Notice the water utility involved is a private enterprise; for profit I bet. I hear there are some law suits already filed.

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

Yeh, don't drink the water around Fukushima either.

Did you hear of the Navy Sailors on the Air Craft carrier that sailed through the waters near Fukushima who came down with radiation poisoning and are now suing the Japan power company for damages?

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Did you hear about them hiring the homeless to clean up the neighborhood?

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

Yeh, the corps are out of hand.

I wonder how many people are going to be homeless for how many years in West Virginia cause a whole region just got their entire water supply contaminated by some greedy people being negligent.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

It has been one long week since the devastating chemical spill on the Elk River poisoned the drinking water for over 300,000 people in West Virginia. Some residents have been told they can start flushing out their water systems while others are still using bottled water for drinking, cooking and bathing. Even where the water is back on, it's undrinkable, forcing residents to continue their reliance on bottled and shipped in water.

It is no secret that Governor Earl Ray Tomblin, the WV legislature, and the WV Department of Environmental Protection have worked to undercut protections for people's health and the environment in favor of the coal and chemical industry. Unfortunately, this chemical spill is not an isolated incident. There is a silent water crisis in West Virginia, where communities living near coal mining face similar dangers each day.

If West Virginia leadership won't protect communities living downstream from coal mining, then President Obama must step up and protect communities from this toxic industry. Sign the petition, and tell President Obama that West Virginia leaders cannot be trusted to regulate the coal industry.

This spill only underscores the coal industry's widespread use of dangerous chemicals and the cost to Appalachian communities and mountains. If the WV Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) continues to turn a blind eye to Big Coal, President Obama should direct federal agencies to do the job the WV DEP will not do.

Tell President Obama to allow the federal Office of Surface Mining Reclamation and Enforcement to step in and stand up for the health of West Virginia communities.

Thanks for all you do,

Mary Anne Hitt Beyond Coal Campaign Director Sierra Club

P.S. Six letters are better than one. Will you share this email with five of your friends and family, too?

Share this page on Facebook

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Sierra Club | 85 2nd St San Francisco, CA 94105

I added:

To the Public - make your officials drink the water.

[-] 4 points by Nevada1 (5843) 8 years ago

Hey DKA, Signed. Just watched Gasland 2------Ouch.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Beyond the W Virginia poisoning of defenseless population/innocents - ALL in the name of FOSSIL FUEL:

Standing eye to eye with Chevron CEO John Watson, Servio Curipoma fought back tears and bravely declared, "My mother died from your cancer. You killed my mother." [1]

Servio, a cacao farmer from the small oil-ravaged town of San Carlos, Ecuador, traveled thousands of miles to face down the CEO of one of the world's most powerful companies. His goal: Hold Chevron accountable for polluting his once-pristine homeland with toxic oil waste and killing his parents and his sister. [2]

For three decades, Texaco, now part of Chevron, dumped 18 billion gallons of toxic oil waste into the beautiful Ecuadorian Amazon. [3] Servio's family and thousands like it were left suffering a plague of deadly cancers and devastating birth defects. [4]

Now, despite losing a 20-year legal battle, Chevron continues to deny responsibility for the world's largest oil disaster. [5,6]

The U.S. Senate has the power to investigate and help stop Chevron's outrageous attacks on those who stand up to corporate greed. But it is up to us to make sure they use that power.

Tell the U.S. Senate's top corporate watchdogs to investigate Chevron's attacks against the very people it poisoned. Let's flood their inboxes with 50,000 comments before Wednesday's big press conference!

In an unprecedented move, the oil giant is using a U.S. law intended to rein in mobsters to sue Servio's neighbors and fellow activists and supporters -- branding them as criminals just for speaking out. [7]

The Sierra Club and thirty other organizations have joined forces to call out Chevron for their dirty tactics -- but we need to keep the drumbeat going. [8] These 10 powerful senators have a proven track record of taking on big corporations and winning. [9] If they stand with us, then Chevron's evil tactics can be stopped.

In 1994, when Texaco was done pillaging Ecuador, it left behind a toxic wasteland. More than 900 open and unlined waste pits dot the landscape, overflowing toxic chemicals into the waterways that Servio's family and their neighbors rely on for cooking and bathing. [10] But Chevron calls the people of Ecuador criminals?

Send your message and let's show Chevron it can't put profits over people!

Servio isn't alone. Emergildo Criollo lost his two sons and nursed a wife through uterine cancer. His family drank, bathed, and fished in water he now knows was poisoned with oil. [11] "I lost two children to Texaco's pollution and the company now calls me a criminal for daring to demand justice." [12]

Despite Chevron's attacks, the brave people of Ecuador and their supporters aren't giving up the fight -- but they can't do it alone. Will you stand with them?

In it together,

Ashley Allison SierraRise Senior Campaigner

P.S. Five signatures are even more powerful than one -- after you take action, be sure to forward this alert to your friends, family, and colleagues!

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  1. Bennett, Caroline (2013 October 30). "Servio Curipoma: Holding Chevron Accountable." Amazon Watch: Eye on the Amazon.

  2. Anderson, Mitch (2011 May 18). "Servio Curipoma Arrives in New York to Tell His Story." Amazon Watch: Eye on the Amazon.

  3. CNN Wire Staff (2012 January 4). "Ecuador court upholds $8.6 billion ruling against Chevron." CNN.

  4. Business Wire staff (2010 October 14). "Amazon Defense Coalition: Chevron's Ecuador Cancer Problem: 10,000 People at Risk of Contracting Disease in Coming Decades, Says Expert." Business Wire.

  5. Anderson, Mitch (2011 February 16). "Chevron Found Guilty In Amazon Pollution Case." SFGate.

  6. Zelman, Joanna (2011 January 24). "Chevron Accused Of 'World's Worst Oil-Related Disaster' In Ecuador: Alleged Evidence Submitted In Lawsuit." Huffington Post.

  7. Baker, David R. (2011 February 2). "Chevron files RICO suit in Ecuador case." SFGate.

  8. Amazon Watch et. al. (2013 December 18). "Institutions, Organizations and Individuals Advocating for Corporate Accountability Condemn Chevron's Retaliatory Attacks on Human Rights and Corporate Accountability Advocates and See it as a Serious Threat to Open Society and Due Process of Law." Amazon Watch.

  9. The Corporate Accountability Coalition Staff. "2012 Congressional Report Card." The Corporate Accountability Coalition.

  10. Anderson, Mitch (2011 February 16). "Chevron Found Guilty In Amazon Pollution Case." SFGate.

  11. Shan, Han. (2010 March 3). "Ecuadorean Indigenous Leader Asks CA Lawmakers for Support in Campaign to Demand Chevron Clean Up its Pollution in Amazon." ChevronToxico.

  12. Paz y Miño, Paul (2013 October 14). "Chevron Retaliation Trial Opens Against Victims of Pollution in Ecuador." Common Dreams.

Photo: Caroline Bennett, Amazon Watch

Sierra Club | 85 2nd St San Francisco, CA 94105 | sierrarise.members@sierraclub.org

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (5843) 8 years ago

Signed. Thank you DKA, for your effort here. This, and all that is displayed in Gasland 2---------Crushing.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Don't miss - http://occupywallst.org/article/west-virginia-demand-something-new/

And OH HOW I WOULD LIKE TO DO SOME CRUSHING - it would be very individual and very personal and would leave the rest of society properly avenged - would only involve the criminals not their families.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Crushing - YES that is a FACT - what is being done to this world and "ALL" of the defenseless - ABSOLUTELY - CRUSHING- So - when do those "FEW" - those Horrendous "FEW" criminals that propagate the poisoning the killing of millions - WHEN - do they get squashed???

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

It is pure GREED/INSANITY that this is allowed to be done to our world.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Freedom Industries!!

As time goes by, we get to discover just how tangled a web was woven.


If you are making enough money to purchase a government, you are making entirely too much money.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Freedom Industries!!

The prevaricating twisted FUCKS

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Did you notice?

All through this thread, based on a corporate attack on community, that not a single one of the posters that have attacked you and I, either openly or covertly, had a thing to say?

I did.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Let the shills/sellouts remain silent - they won't be missed.


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Signed, of course.........:)

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Of Course - felt good too - I bet. {:-])


[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago


Even better than batting concern trolls around.



[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Well - actually - ya got to slap them at the same time - just by signing the petition. Good Deal - Hey?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Ya gotta love a twofer!!



[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

That kind of a twofer - fur-sure!



[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Don't Drink the Water

Correct - instead - collect the water that you are being told is safe to drink - and - have those who are telling you it is safe - Drink It as you present it to them from your household taps - have them drink it as it is presented - in public on TV - daily - ALL DAY LONG - for a minimum of 1 year - this activity would of course include their families as well as the executives and their families of the company that spilled the chemicals. No Worries - It's Safe - Right???

Not to forget all officialdom - include high ranking leadership of the EPA and FDA and CDC as well.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Along with the wonders of fracking fluid enhanced, water supplements.


[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Absolutely - put it in their coffee juice etc etc etc - let them prove with their own health and their families health that there is no danger in contact or ingestion - have em bathe in it - have em breath the vapors Continuously/constantly 24/7/365.

It is safe - so - no worries.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Oh.......and don't forget the timing of the GOP's pulling of the last tooth the EPA had.

Regulation, is for the little people.


[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

How can anyone look at their actions and continue to give them support? Death Wishes?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Libe(R)topian dreams and corporate schemes.

But wait? what??

You think this move is going to be seriously reported on???


Not a chance.

I'm surprised they reported that pregnant women, should still avoid drinking that shit.


[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

What is still ASTOUNDING - IS - that what little does reach the public - though a trickle ( not a joke or pun ) - IS consistent = BAD for the Public - and the assholes remain in office.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Most people never heard of it.

If not for the internet - I would not have either.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

The GOP gutted any chance of a clean-up there too.

Where's all that talk about libe(R)topian "responsibility" now?

It becomes the tax payers responsibility.

A corporation in libe(R)topia, is NEVER reasonable.

Honest Mom, the"MARKET" did it.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

There are absolute poster-children for evil in office - individuals that no-one should have a problem with holding-up to view for public vilification - them and their actions - as well as other seemingly innocent others that sign-on to the bullshit that they ( evil poster-children ) author/promote. But some would have this all discounted/ignored as they would rather concentrate on non-issues - distractions - for ( Obviously ) No Good Purpose.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Did you notice how careful the MSM has been to assure the public that the poisons being removed from Syria for destruction are "actually" gonna be destroyed? as in not dumped into the ocean?

Or how the MSM are saying that areas downstream of the W Virginia spill are not closing down their water intake - as the water by that time has been "heavily" diluted and so is safe? Are they serious? Has no-one any understanding that parts per billion is still deadly? Especially with constant intake/exposure. What a bunch of shitheads - sign them up for the mandatory drinking of public water supply in these areas along with their public safety officials and politicians and their families.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

You do remember what I said about the "plan" for public water supply a long time ago?

It goes hand in hand with the belief of Nestle's CEO, that access to potable water is not a human right.

Make the public loose faith, so they will buy the much more profitable bottled stuff.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

so they will buy the much more profitable bottled stuff.

Which is not necessarily any safer? :

Is your bottled water safe? - CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S ... www.cnn.com › Hot Topics › Cheating Death

Jul 13, 2009 · Although you may think that bottled water is a safer option than tap, two new reports show that the store-bought stuff is actually less regulated than the ...

HELL - even Fux Spews:

More than 24,500 chemicals found in bottled water | Fox News More than 24,500 chemicals found in bottled water www.foxnews.com/.../more-than-24500-chemicals-found-in-bottled-water

Jan 13, 2014 · Bottled water has become a bit of a trend – specific brands with unique shapes that tell the world a little something about you. While your bottle …

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

and now a grand jury investigation has been started on the Elk river spill.


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

A big public experiment in the pollution for profit "industry".

with ties to the Koch's.

No surprise that.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Make em drink the water and cook with it and bathe in it and breathe the fumes - I am thinking that they might come to a swifter conclusion on possible health effects.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

I mean it! Don't drink the water.

It turns out what was in it, breaks down into formaldehyde.


Gosh, the things we learn about the stuff libe(R)tarians dump into our food supply

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

A typical day, in This Modern World.



[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Proud to drink the coal miners water?

I double dog dare you.


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

They've been doing it for years.


Pointing such things out, is another reason they like to bust unions.

[-] -1 points by stenchylepew (0) 8 years ago

Oh look...a plane crashed last week. By liberal logic that means.. Nobody should fly anymore.

Fucking idiots. Collect another barrel of rainwater asshole. Al Gore needs to refill the fountains at his mansion

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Good idea!

You could call it liquid liqourice, water enhancement.

Get at least $5 a bottle..............................:)

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago
[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago


:As more than 300,000 West Virginians still live without piped water after last week's massive chemical spill dumped toxic 4-methylcyclohexane methanol into the Elk River, activists and regulators are concerned that despite continuous environmental disasters hitting the U.S. in recent years, a lack of legal fixes means more people will suffer similar outrages in the future.

“The situation and leak shows that much more oversight and regulation needs to take place and without constant observance, this can happen again,” West Virginia Rivers Coalition Executive Director Angela Rosser told Occupy.com. Rosser believes this disaster must serve as an educational moment for government and private industry to look deep at states' regulatory agencies and their efficiency in ensuring the safety of the population.:

And then just dump the rest of the complaints on "Obamacare", and thereby, the tax payers.


Ain't libe(R)topia grand?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Erin Brockovitch, speaks out on the spill.


I don't think she'd get along to well with the CEO of Nestle's.


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

I know, I know!

Let's store all our toxic chemicals by the river!!!!

Unless there's BIG leak, no one will notice.

EDIT: Kind of like this.


It's the kind of thing you won't find on FLAKESnews, nor the Heritage web site.


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

At least for a while, they won't be bitching about FEMA in W. Virginia.


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Did you notice?

No private entity offered to help at all.

Considering their success at evading taxes, you'd think they would be true libe(R)tarians and offer to clean up the whole mess.

Isn't that what they're always saying?

That it would be the neighborly thing to do.



[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

It only killed half the rats.

Let's keep it in a tank by the river......:)



[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

It'll be on it's way out to sea.

The ultimate hiding place for corporate indiscretion.

Just ask BP.

Of course, others are not so sure how long it'll stick around.


There's still dioxin on the banks of the Tittabawassee, from a Dow spill of many years ago.


[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Some personal stories.


Every time I see all those cases of Nestle's water all over the place, I remember the words of it's CEO.

"Clean water isn't a human right."


[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

What kind of pollution do we want to allow into our rivers next?

Why is that even an option?


[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Freedom Ind.LLC, skips out.

"Exactly one month and a day after 10,000 gallons of chemicals spilled into West Virginia’s water, members of the U.S. House Transportation and Infrastructure committee on Monday traveled to the state’s capital city, ostensibly to ask state leaders the still-unanswered questions surrounding the leak. There are many.

Perhaps the most important party that could provide answers would have been Freedom Industries, the company whose chemical storage tanks leaked a coal-cleaning chemical called crude MCHM into the water. Company president Gary Southern had been invited to testify, but in the end, did not show up.

“I find that extremely telling,” said Rep. Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV). “Freedom Industries’ decision not to testify today compounds its gross misconduct, and is an absolute affront to every person impacted by its spill.”


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

what about its right to privacy ?

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

The NSA knows anyway.............................:)

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

let's bring those records forward

time to turn meta data over the meta melt down

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

That's what I say.

Bring it all forward and declare data encryption illegal.

Information yearns to be free.

so let's free it up.


[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

N. Carolina ALERT!

Coal ash fouls public water supply!!



[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Ayn Paul, speaks up on the spill........

And calls for more deregulation!!!


I wonder what he says about global warming?

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Isn't it nice to know, that they don't know or care what's in those tanks down by the river?

I wonder if they had to give Freedom Industries a tax break, just to be gifted with their presence in the State of W. Virginia?


[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Oooops, they let school children drink it.


They shouldn't have done that.

Who will be paying for all the "imported" water?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

shouldn't we be more interested in

where the water is coming from

and how to get it to the population

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

It's coming out of the poisoned river.

I thought you knew.

Why would you want to sell it anyone?


[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Imported? Nah nestles will likely set-up shop to bottle what is already there - polluted water - and sell that to the public.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago


They're pumping it out of the Mid-Michigan aquifer.

Then they sell it whoever's river got poisoned by their fellow libe(R)tarians.

It's a win win.


[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

But then they would have to transport it. When they could probably pick-up Freedom Industries for a bankruptcy song and have liquorice smelling bottled "what"er at no extra cost.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Connect the dots, eh?

I did that earlier today, on a different subject.


[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

I saw that - commodities trading - FUCKING OVER THE WORLD in their own way.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Funny ( well not really funny ) - I made a comment on aluminum the other day - how if liquid metal batteries to upgrade the national power grid went into full production - that aluminum cost would skyrocket.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

We have the Clean Water Act on the federal level. The federal government should provide clean water to these people till their water source is safe, keep track of the money spent, chase after Freedom Industries in bankruptcy court for compensation, and sue for violations of the Clean Water Act when it emerges from bankruptcy.

It may take years to stick the costs justly to Freedom Industries so people need to have a long memory and not to vote in meanwhile any politician who will not push to stick the costs, fines, penalties, interests, legal fees, medical bills, loss of housing, etc. to Freedom Industries. Previous records of industrial accidents' aftermath showed the government and the courts had persistently favored the industries. People need to take back control of the government and the courts and haunt them if need be.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Let's also liquidate the assets of GUY who actually made the decision To store that stuff there, while lying about blending those chemicals on the site, and then let it leak in to the river.

I'm sick of these psychos getting away with this shit.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

I am sure that when we trace it back, we see that Freedom Industries knew that the tank was in danger of leaking. They probably dragged their feet in complying with regulators or dangled the carrot of joining the industry when the federal or state regulatory stints are over.

It is fair to try to chase the culprit to an individual and confiscate their assets. That depends on the ownership form of Freedom Industries. If it is publicly held, the ownership may well change in milliseconds and be dispersed but the real point is to get at the money for compensating the victims and make an example of Freedom Industries. I like the Chinese way of killing the chicken to scare the monkeys. It is time to pluck the neck feathers off of Freedom Industries.

I am fairly sure (as it is a chemical company) that West Virginia's politicians and regulators allowed those actions (aside from the leak) to be taken but deregulation was probably the result of the Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! mentality of the electorate there.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Please, you must stop pretending corporations are people.

They aren't. I don't care what SCUTUS says.

There are ALWAYS human individuals behind EVERY action EVERY corporation has ever taken.

Freedom Industries, couldn't know a thing. It's not actually alive.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

There is a logistical problem with chasing back responsibilities to human individuals behind corporations. One example is California teachers whose union pension fund invested in the firearms industry that provided the technical means for the horrific mass murders and suicide at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Are you going to arrest the California teachers and throw them into prison? CALPERS divested from the firearms industry so that is laudable. Often seeking higher returns sacrificed moral principles unknowingly and sometimes knowingly.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

WTF, does that have to do with a guy that made the decision to dump that stuff in the river by his own willful negligence?

You really must be drinking that W.Virginia water.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

That stuff costs money so its loss ate into the corporate profits so it is most likely unintentional. The blended chemical mixture leaked seems to be a PRODUCT of Freedom Industries ready to be sold to the coal power plant operators to clean coal in a flotation process. Yes, there is likely negligence involved but malice is less likely. 10000 gallons of that stuff is worth a lot of money! Corporations are in general rather responsible about retaining the maximal profits possible.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago


I get you now..

Profits first.

Community last.

They weren't supposed to be blending ANYTHING on that site.

But then I guess they know they have you to help make excuses for their bad behavior.

How about malicious negligence?

Oh and put his new corporation last in line for the left over profits.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

To win any war, one has to get inside the minds of the opponents. I let you see the reasoning involved. It is not an endorsement or discredit. It is just the way things ARE in our current system.

I'll go for malicious negligence but the people who do not rise up to rectify the injustice shoulder responsibility, too. They put deregulation indirectly into their communities.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

"They put deregulation indirectly into their communities."

Um.......ALEC and the SPN did most of that, through a concerted, well funded effort.

So don't blame it on the folks that have to drink the water.

They are still quite busy.

Did you also blame Michigan voters for the (R)epelican't DeVos/ALEC push to enact "right to work" for less legislation?

This kind of thing doesn't happen in a vacuum.


[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Okay, let me say it loud and clear - corporations are NOT people. They are legal artifacts which came from our deals with the people with capital.

You know very well that capital does not grow from a little bit of dampness in a stinky pair of sneakers left in a school locker for too long. Capital presumably came from something like karma points. Corporations were given rights to free up the capital to do its magic in return for limited liability to its owner(s). It allowed responsibilities to be carried out beyond a person's lifetime and limited geographical locations and profits and risks to be shared by multiple owners who take the RISKS. Corporations served the purpose well but it was subject to abuse by depraved human beings (there is at least a bit of depravity in all of us, really) and often neglect by smaller investors. If you belong to a union, the union pension plan most likely made you a small investor. A union IS a corporation, too, just to remind you since you seem so pro-union. I have absolutely no problem with union health plans, for example - their taking RISKS to help their members.

Corporations allowed the capitalistic world to achieve far higher standards of living than elsewhere so they should be a cornerstone of our economic system until we find something better. Some of them have gone astray so we need to punish them to the fullest extent of the law and BEYOND. We have moral laws, social laws, tribal laws, etiquette, and decency standards (not to mention Shar'ia and Hammurabi's principle) before secular (state) laws came to be. We must discipline corporations by any and all means available. There was a deal made in the creation of the corporation and we intend to adhere to the terms but the artifact was created to further human welfare, NOT to create human sufferings. When corporations violate the ultimate purpose, the people must exercise their right, and indeed their duty, to rescind, amend, replace, and add any and all terms in the deal, enforced by any and all legal and extra-legal means.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Karma points are not investable capital.

Ask yourself this.

since corporations are now people.

What's that make humans?

why did you take another dig at unions?

Bad form. Very bad form.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Humans are still sovereigns. We may be "units" of corporations or any other artifact but we can unplug ourselves from them, too. I ask you, "Are you afraid of Zeus's thunderbolt zapping your computer to oblivion because you mortal did not offer him oxen in burnt sacrifice?"

The first step to take to be free is to understand why we are in bondage. It is a nightmare alright but once we realize that nightmares are nothing more than bad dreams, we can free ourselves by dreaming a better dream sequence. We dream our world resisting, sabotaging, and tormenting us but enlightenment comes when we realize that this world is OUR world. We can knead it, cut it, weld it, and burn it as we like, or make it into paradise or heaven on earth, for we are all there is and all there will be. We are beings of dreams.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Have you been drinking water from W. Virginia?

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Figuratively speaking, you are correct. I can feel the distress of these people because I went on a long hike once, got weird-tasting water to drink from a mountain stream, only to discover later to my horror up the mountain that a blonde was taking a shower in the stream that I took water from! That was of course not much suffering compared to what these people have gone through but I did learn my lesson.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

That would be literal.

at any rate, all your doing is distracting from the issue at hand.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Okay, literal. I plead guilty as charged for distraction but how would you solve the problems of PPH and 4-methylcyclohexanemethanol in the water supply of West Virginia? Both of these chemicals are not very volatile due to their high molecular masses and polar groups so they can stay around for a long time because evaporation does not clean them up fast. PPH also known as DOWANOL(tm) PPh Glycol Ether is very hydrophobic meaning that it is very oil-like so water cannot clean it away well.

Come to think of it, perhaps an emulsifier can help - get a chemist to find something that works. Once one is found, the water works will need to take a thorough shower like that blonde up the mountain but watch out, people, don't drink that bath water no matter how sexy that blonde looks!

[-] 3 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

The senses of smell and taste are very physical and sensitive. Actual molecules need to interact with sensory receptors before the sensation occurs. It is important that the water be palatable in smell and taste even after passing lab tests because these senses can be better than lab tests in some cases. Since dogs have more acute sense of smell than human beings, how do the dogs react to smelling the water?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Another sign of deadly water: Mysterious epidemic devastates starfish population off the Pacific Coast

My thought - Is - that it is a toxic event/result.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Back to W Virginia.

They're quietly distributing bottled water again.


Because......welp,,, what they did, may not have worked.


Keep it quiet?

They don't want anyone to know just how big a failure the libe(R)topian agenda really is.



[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

MCHM (4-MethylCycloHexaneMethanol) is an alcohol. Note the -ol suffix in its name and in the word 'alcohOL'. Alcohols undergoing partial oxidation can turn into aldehydes so it is plausible that formaldehyde can come from the partial oxidation of MCHM (its methanOL group). To do that though requires breaking and forming chemical bonds so that usually occurs at high temperatures although powerful oxidants can do the same at room temperatures.

Formaldehyde is toxic (it is why wood alcohol or methanol can blind alcoholics and also kill them) and its effects can show up years later, as cancers or birth defects (it messes with our DNA processes) for example but we do so many things that are stupid anyway (such as why toilet papers should be bleached white) that most people will probably never care anyway. Water is consumed in large quantities so it is definitely a concern but formaldehyde may also be generated by other bleaching processes working on methanol.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Whatever, it's in the river, thanks to those wonderful libe(R)tarians, and the years of deregulation, they've heaped upon the tax payers..



[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

You are still under the curse of Capitalism. If we so desire, we can all make karma points into investible capital, too - jart can help as long as we all agree to the compact recognizing the trading of karma points for goods and services. The Federal Reserve Notes are nothing more than fancy paper representation of the eelites' karma points. The eelites engage in creating theirs and we engage in creating ours. I do see your point though if you think that we do not have a centralized authority like the Federal Reserve but our karma point system is democratic printing "money" for all, very egalitarian.

Corporations are NOT people. Why do I need to belabor this point with you? If they are endowed with people's rights, that is the doing of the people's system. If they should not get those rights, the people should correct that. The Founding Fathers with their distrust of centralized power provided the mechanism for doing that.

Unions, corporations, tribes, religious sects, and even societies are all artifacts of human beings. I mentioned unions because they seemed to be dear to the base of your brain so you may relate to the statement (unions are corporations) more emotionally. I think that all of these artifacts are not inherently good or evil in themselves. I quote Jesus that we should judge them by their "fruits."

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

So use unions a tool to get under some else's skin?

will you saying that you're not anti-union soon?

Federal reserve notes under any other name are still fiat currency.

Gold buggery is foolishness,

Lord only knows why you've brought either to the forefront on a thread about corporations shirking their responsibility to the public after a toxic spill.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Control your emotions and you advance one step towards enlightenment. Yes, I am in fact rather pro-union as I reckon but I want no one to think that unions can solve our problems. They cannot although they are certainly one powerful existing tool that can help greatly.

Every currency is fiat currency. Even gold in my mind is currency by fiat of the yellow emission line but gold has natural restraints on its quantities available while other fiat currencies only have human restraints which we saw failed again and again worldwide.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Excuse me?

What makes you think I'm not?

Why don't you control yours and give a comment about why you think corporate charters should remain just the way they are?

It was your "emotional" outburst that drove us away from that important cure in the first place.

You're just distracting from Freedom Industries abusive CEO's ability to use that charter to dump HIS RESPONSIBILITY back on the tax payers. both State and Federal.

Meanwhile that water is still dangerous!


[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

If you say changing the corporate charters, I ask, "To what and how?" There are existing mechanisms to impose environmental and health constraints on all U.S. corporations so let us use them. Perhaps we can tie CEO's pay to number of lawsuits, fines and penalties incurred by the corporations. The government may not be able to do that (it could not or would not limit bonuses even when it was the MAJORITY shareholder of the too-big-to-fail banks and AIG) but shareholders can do just about anything to their corporations through their board directors. The board is where the high-powered heat rays should zap.

I am absolutely sure that Freedom Industries' corporate charter does not state their right to dump into the water. They are NOT stupid.

As for bankruptcy laws' chapter 11, the bankruptcy laws were amended to that under the noses of the people's "representatives."


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

I would change the charters to something that better serves the community.

Those existing mechanism, have been rendered impotent by decades of budget cuts and lobbying to limit what they can still do.

Literally decades of cuts.

We would be much better served by fining them everything they own and perhaps tossing them in the hoosegow.

Shareholders can come after the community served.

Pushing everything to it's limits for sake of profit, is why those tanks leaked. You do recall that due to other State government budget restraints, they hadn't been inspected for a very long time.

Since it costs money and takes responsibility, the owner didn't bother to check the tanks at all, or if he did, he didn't bother to fix them. That's willful negligence.

Bush fucked up bankruptcy laws all over the Nation..

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 8 years ago

Pushing everything to its limits and beyond is why everything fails. There is the world of finance divorced from the world of reality. The owner(s) can see the expenditures for maintaining the tanks but not the consequences of not maintaining them. Psychopathic managers are rewarded and rise to the top so we get money grubbing psychopaths in charge in many places, industries and governments alike.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Wallstreet's charters can be changed too.

We just need to stop making excuses, for why they shouldn't be.

You missed this one too.





[+] -4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

First 'official" report, unclear enough to keep me from drinking that stuff.

They have no idea, what the long terms effects, might be and let's face it, you can't ask a white rat if it has a headache.....the light it shined, was pretty dim.