Forum Post: don' throw the baby out with the bathwater!
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 9, 2011, 10:35 a.m. EST by amen88
(173)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
there has been much discussion on changing or revamping our entire system. the structure of our government is actually one of the best, if not the best ever came up with. what is needed is a thorough cleaning house. when we direct the accountability of our elected officials from corporate interests and big banks back to the people, the original structure should serve us just fine. of course there are things that immediately need attention to once the $ has been taken out of government. this list includes, but is not limited to:
limit federal government powers and give them back to the states, in other words... STATES RIGHTS
reinstate all bank regulations such as glass-steagle
get back on the written ballot voting system
tax reformation
end the senseless wars
etc., but FIRST...
money out of our government!
"the structure of our government is actually one of the best, if not the best ever came up with"
I wonder what that statement is based on. Lowest criminal rate? Lowest poverty rate? Least amount of corruption? Highest standard of living? In a lot of those area's there are a lot of countries that do better then the US. So which data proves that the current system is better then anything else?
the point that i am making is that it is not the framework or structure of our governmental system that is fatly, it is what the fat-cats have done with it, not to mention many social problems within this country. to some degree we all have to take a bit of responsibility for the condition of this country.
People see through the "states rights" bullshit. Just so you know.
i don't think states rights are bullshit at all. originally all rights not expressly given to the federal government in the constitution belonged to the states. the federal government has been consistently usurping these rights ever since. this is a major contributing factor to the mess we have ended up with, ... just so you know.
Whatever. People know what it means.
Right on
General meetings, Community Level,State level,National Level..Let the People decide whats good for their communities, state,then national..Govenment officials are so busy irresponsibly, printing money they dont have and bailing out their buddies,around the world..Transnational Traitors You Are Fired..
yes, they all need to be fired i agree. every last one of them.
Nov 12 6PM 60 Wall Street Amendment Meeting
There are a huge number of great, well thought out, COMPLICATED ideas that will require a huge amount of "selling" and explanation" and will garner GREAT OPPOSITION.
We need to be realistic & pick an issue that is simple - that is popular -
that 83% of Americans already agree on -
that 56% of TP already agree on -
that will bring together the people in OWS with the people outside of OWS.
Everybody wins!
Our only goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decisions Citizens United (2010) & Buckley v. Valeo (1976), that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
“Corporations and organizations are not a persons & have no personhood rights”
and
“money is not free speech”.
We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.
THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)
If they could tie the left and right into a success -
if Ohio won. If Arizona won. If Maine won. If Mississippi won - WHY CAN'T WE??????????
I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people” and “money is not free speech”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
1
83% of Americans have already opposed CU in the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
IS THEIR POSITION ALREADY.
2
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
3
Simple is almost always better.
4
This simple Amendment is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process.
5
OWS and these pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country.
All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition.
None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans !
Pursuing this goal – without additional specifics is exactly what Americans want.
What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state! Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for any of them?
83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. And 76% of the Rs did too.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions.
Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one MAJORITY task.
while i agree with you about going after and overturning citizens united and buckley vs. vale, it is important that we reinstate important regulations on banking that were removed. most important, the glass-steagle act. hand that little piece of legislation not been removed, the major banking institutions would not have been allowed to gamble with everyones money.
i do agree, first things first, big money out of politics.
Keep the drapes, the furniture and the art on the walls? Just drag the criminals to the Constitution and use it. Is that what you mean?
yes, the framework of this great nation is pretty much still intact, it is just that a bunch of self serving common criminals hijacked the government.
The very removal of those traitors was foreseen by the founders and the means of removal instilled directly into the Constitution. We as America need to use it. The world will follow.
i believe all options need to be exhausted before even considering a violent uprising. if OWS became united around the single demand, get money out of politics and pushed for real solutions to this, such as supporting an amendment already introduced to the senate that would overturn the ruling of citizens united vs. federal elections commission, then congress would have to act. this would be a huge blow to the powers that have usurped control of our government.
it is my belief that once the accountability is shifted from big business and banking interests, back to the people, all other grievances can be addressed.
If getting money out of politics could be done with politics, I would be enthusiastic, but those with power, that they feel they have purchased it fairly, will not relinquish that power without resistance. If OWS or any organization intends to "unfuck" corruption they will need an incredibly effective tool. Yes again, once the people regain control of the government from traitors, they will certainly be able to solve an enormous amount of social ailments, simply because their loyalty is not elsewhere.
Some members of Congress have already proposed such an amendment. And because these members of Congress happen to be Democrats, the right wing is doing everything in its power to stop them from doing it. Including hijacking OWS. People are smart, though. We will vote in such a way that the right wing will not be able to sabotage.
If politicians feared the voter these things would never happen to begin with, Party lines aside.
Oh, they definitely fear the voter. Hence the every-attempt-under-the-sun to manipulate the election process.
Good point, but they nevertheless do manipulate the election process, to their own ends. Those ends and the ends of the voter are not the same. Basically, they are able to overcome their fear of the voter just long enough to screw him/her over.
an expected reaction by the corporate controlled right. i believe you are right, the OWS will show itself to have tremendous power in changing the tides.
OWS or not, the tide will change. It is the nature of tides.
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i am familiar with the movie or documentary. while my overall take on it is good, i don't agree with all of their spiritual assumptions. way too new age for me, hedonistic, and very self centered.
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The baby mutated into a spawn from hell. Are you sure you want to keep it?
the baby and the dishwater bit is a figure of speech, but if you are asking if the foundation upon which this country is built on is sound or not, my answer is most assuredly yes.
Then leave. Move to another country.
Nope...I would rather stay here and annoy you.
I'm not annoyed. I enjoy trying to understand poor logic.
I'll try harder..but its tough dealing with the brain dead
You're telling me.
Yes I am telling you that you are brain dead...wow you got that right....
Have fun here. I need to get back to trading stocks.