Forum Post: Does the public really think that there is no problem with greed driving this country into the mud?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 16, 2012, 3:06 p.m. EST by DKAtoday
(33802)
from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Does the public really think that there is no problem with greed driving this country into the mud? Or is that just more BS propaganda from the "greedy" wealthy - trying to keep anyone from uniting to say - enough is enough?
Treason? I think that fits. I mean what else is the hoarding/hiding of over thirty trillion dollars in off shore accounts? Sucking the economy dry. Is that not economic sabotage? Is that not an attempt to sink the USA's economic structure? What other reason to hide that kind of money off shore - out of the economy - to what "other" purpose/intent???????
Fortunately not all of the wealthy are Blind greedy and insane. http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/11/patriotic-millionaires-fiscal-cliff-taxes … Please share/circulate.
Corporations are destroying the planet. Corporations are a mechanism for the worst people to get control.
Good morning Nevada. Yep - taking a look at the world today - the actions of major corpoRATions - and that is the conclusion one must come to.
Good morning DKA. Nice to see therising back.
Yes - it is - very good to see.
From conversations that I've had with conservatives and liberals, I believe that Americans have been so deeply conditioned to fear equality or anything that resembles it. How will everyone measure themselves against others? Just the other day a man said that he fears everyone becoming equal. I asked him why and he had to actually stop and think about it. It was obvious that he was a bright and intelligent man who had failed to question what he had been taught. I asked him what would happen if everyone roughly earned the same amount? If everyone could mostly afford the same things and if everyone had the same opportunities and he finally realized that he, like so many folks, had an egoistic fear of appearing average, of being average, and not having anything to compete for. Is it any wonder that competitive sports is so popular? It's just part of the overall psychological conditioning that keeps the machine running. Competition is an addiction like gambling and too many Americans are made to believe that if they do not aggressively compete they will appear as losers, Americans are also made to believe that the more money you have, the more you are to be respected as it's a sign of hard work, good ethics and high intelligence. But, those of us are wiser know that grit, hard work and intelligence have little to do with what makes a millionaire these days. Actually luck, greed, personal and professional relationships and sex appeal are the desired credentials.
Nevertheless, we get up and go to work and keep doing the same things every day under the illusion that somehow what we are doing is going to make us appear successful and happy when in reality, we are just doing these things for those at the top who throw us a crumb in return for our efforts. We are owned and completely controlled by industry and government and both can destroy us overnight. Nothing you have is yours, not a penny you earn is really yours, not the shirt on your back, not the home or the land you purchased. We are just stewards of others' property until the day they decide we don't deserve it or can't have it anymore.
Good and thoughtful comment - thx. More people are coming out of their day to day stupor and are beginning to question the way things are in the world around them. Is the awakening happening quickly enough?
Just think about how much good all of that money could do if the Rich paid the 1960 tax rate again (91% for $400k income which would be $3M income in today's dollars). I'll bet you could probably get close to a trillion that is desperately needed to help those at the bottom of the scale who are just barely scraping by. But NOOOOOOO!!! Ebenezer Scrooge said "let them all hurry up and die, and reduce the surplus population."
Over twice the national debt - and it is all hoarded off shore.
There is the money to start new business - new clean green business - that could supply materials and finished goods - parts - to make a green switchover to power production and fuel supply and transportation changeover - to fuel the economy and get people to work doing healthy things for our country and for the rest of the world.
House the homeless
Upgrade the educational system
Stop environmental poisoning/destruction
Process bad water into good safe drinking water
So much
So Much
But the greedy are blind to the healthy prospects for all.
how about no taxes, we could help ourselves for a change instead of having our income stolen from us by a government that does nothing to help us, (only hurt us), and brainwashed into thinking its the governments job to take care of us. Man did we buy into a dead end.
The welfare queens unmasked!
http://front.moveon.org/who-are-the-real-american-welfare-queens/?rc=daily.share
U R funny - Humanity has not matured enough to act independently and act well in doing so. Society needs a structure - and the people need to be involved in that structure - till the day true maturity is reached.
you know after reading this post a 2nd time, I now tend to agree with what you are saying. I having had so many people control me, I am sick physcially and mentally from the overabundance of control and feel that I am no longer sensitive to a balanced society. I do not believe it will ever happen however. Im approaching the point that I wish I could be noah, and all mankind were drowned again.
people are mature when they say they are, not when a self appointed king (a.k.a. government) says they are.
Besides its not even one mans place to judge another free man, who made such a man God. Are you God?
Who is judging "a" man? Look at the world - and if you tell me that all of the people are mature - I will call you a liar - and "that" will be a fair judgment.
if you stop to look to see what others are doing, then you are already unworthy, you didn't create this world, and you certainly have no say over what I do, nor my children, nor my children's children. I shall teach them just fine without your permission.
Where is your rock of solitude located? Not on a flood-plain I hope.
Thank you supporters of the greedy - your downvotes on this post just lend strength to the good comments made by those opposing greed.
Food 4 Thought - Tweeted
I think the public is more greedy now than at any time in our history.
What are you a troll?
Nope - R U a supporter of Greed?
BTW - where is "writer guy" being held prisoner(?) - do you have a petition to sign for his release? Have you contacted Amnesty International? Do you have a protest scheduled?
DKAtoday, Greed is our Enemy.
Greed has caused the overwhelming Debt, greed has caused millions of home forclosures, and greed has colapsed the economy.
How do we end greed, when so many feel greed is a liberty ..it is a freedom.
Those who believe that greed is good - need to wake-up - as they obviously do not know/understand the definition of the word. They need to take a look at the world around them and see where greed is ruining not just this society - but also the whole world. Greed is a sickness that needs medical treatment.
The words they need to look for is prosperous another is Healthy another for ALL. Look to be positive people.
They need to see that successful business's that have been around a very long time that started small and grew to be large are now dying - because those that are now at the top are taking as much as they can out of the business's as fast as possible and letting the business's die. Hiding/Hoarding all of that money - off shore - over twice the national debt - has been hoarded off shore.
Perhaps it is we who need to wake-up, and realize that our enemy, Greed, will never see the destruction in it's wake, only the lust in it's heart ..burning like a raging fire, devouring all in it's path. It is us who must stop greed, for greed will continue until all is consumed, all is destroyed.
Greed will not wake up. Greed is a fever burning hot and wild ..out of control .
That is why I am here - to reach out to the public over the internet - to provide good information "food for thought" - to point out the failures/sicknesses of society and their cause.
Occupy is making a difference on the streets and over the internet. This effort must continue.
The People need to be awoken. And motivated to get involved and stay involved.
Fundamental change for the better will only come through the involvement of the people.
Finish this sentence:
If I was Greedy and Rich...
[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1919) 1 minute ago
Finish this sentence:
If I was Greedy and Rich... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink
... my reason for being here would be to disrupt the forum to prevent people from being given good information as to why they need to unite and get involved.
..If OWS sincerely wants change, they need to organize and Lobby Congress. It's the only path to a peaceful solution.
By organize, I mean create a membership and approach Congress with signatures and petitions.Have clear discussions on all issues, and keep everything transparent.
This will take a concerted effort, and I believe many would support OWs even in a small monetary way. Let's be realistic, Those who would do the actual Lobbying deserve excellent accomodations.. along with full membership support. Get in there , " Get it DONE ! "
Supporters of Occupy are already doing a lot of good lobbying - Lobbying of the public/people - the ones who need to get involved.
What is the hold back, why won't the organizers of OWS take the initiative ? Lobbying the people !!??! We the people , are sheep. We are waiting for leadership to step up to the plate for us . Waiting for "We the People", is like waiting for the greedy to give all their money away. ((a long wait..)
Things are already changing in the public - the public is waking-up and starting to get involved. The enemies of occupy would love some sort of leader to materialize - so that they would have a target to attack.
Right , right .. the public is waking up .. yawn .. soon the will want .. breakfast .. ;-)
They woke up in Iceland, Let's understand their success and emulate.
http://www.nationofchange.org/iceland-did-it-rightand-everyone-else-doing-it-wrong-1354283363
I wouldn't say that greed doesn't come to play.
I think of climate change quite a bit, I think to myself that the "cost" of doing something climbs and climbs, those with lots of wealth at stake want to keep telling us that we can "ride it out" with time that lie will become more obvious to more people, when exactly will we forgo the niceties of observing ownership as our most precious belief and shift to survival and will it be in time
I don't want to have to wait to find out. I want to see changes made now - changes that support society. I don't want to see people struggling to survive anymore. I want to see people living a good life.
Then change the mindset.
Working on it.
To me, that sounds like you want DK to drop his expectations.
Is that right?
if we tell the truth all things are possible, but we must release control and lose the ego
Here is a starter for all: Free your mind - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLTAf6SDIqQ
Thanks Builder. {:-])
freedom can mean many things,,,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXV_QjenbDw
but money is not freedom
(money is our capital and if we don't start putting it to better use, we're all f**k'd)
I'm a realist.
I'll leave it to DKA to respond.
Thanks Builder. {:-]) a starter for all: Free your mind - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLTAf6SDIqQ
Thanks Builder. {:-]) a starter for all: Free your mind - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLTAf6SDIqQ
The lryics/meaning are great. Anti prejudice.
Much needed for a maturing society that MUST come together and shake off the fear of one ism after another.
Thx
We all have more in common - then not. The differences are superficial. Only haters push the differences.
Words of wisdom. We are all of the same human race.
Our common 'enemy' are other humans who do not care ("you're on your own" ideology) about their fellow human beings who are of the "we're in this together" mindset.
I know you care.
Down with ayn and that sick mindset. Should be a #1 reason to remove office holders.
Certainly an excellent measure of an office holders support for the 99%.
If they want to be on their own/alone - we should help them - way to many people around when they are in a public office - so set them free to go wander in the wilderness.
Agreed. I think if this movement continues it's excellent work, and growth, it will be natural for office holders to transform, & address the issues of the 99%. Or to the wilderness for them.
Fundamental change for the better will come from the involvement of the people.
Well, they are running scared because of Obama and his threats to take more taxes from them.
With the present attitude about the "evil rich and wealthy" that Obama has projected and his lambs are following the "evil rich and wealthy" are bailing out - don't expect the economy to improve anytime soon because of this. Give it another 4 years and then lets see what happens.
What do you mean -- "take more taxes from them"? They're only paying 15% on capital gains now!!! They are traitors who have offshored their wealth to avoid taxes. They think they are too good to pay ("only the little people pay taxes"). They have an attitude of priviledge and high-and-mightyness that demonstrates their arrogance and lack of concern for the common person.
Read this if you want the truth.
What about the taxes they paid in the income of that money before it became "capital for investment purposes"? If you haven't realized, when you make a profit you pay a tax on that profit. When you invest that money into stocks or any other investment you pay taxes on the increase in revenues from that investment.
That argument is so weak. So what you are saying is that when I take my wages and buy ingredients for Tamales, not only do I not have to pay taxes on the ingredients for the Tamales, but I don't have to pay taxes on any of the profits I make from selling the Tamales? I mean why should I? I paid taxes on my wages so all the things I do with that money after the fact is tax free.
This is such a silly argument. It is economic activity that is taxed. If you are profiting in the United States of America, you pay a tax. It is just greedy and simple minded to believe that money should only be taxed once and the economic activity that that money engenders should be free from taxes after that first transaction. If your money is working for you then there is a tax on that money.
I never understood that capital gains argument. It is tantamount to saying because I am rich and am able to invest in the stock market, I should not have to pay the same taxes as the peasants do.
You never understood it because you have a brain, and you recognize a bullshit story when you hear it.
I agree. Tax the wealthy! End the free ride! end corp welfare!
The people I'm talking about haven't produced regular income in years, decades, or perhaps ever. I'm not talking about the "average" wealthy. And where is the logic in what they might have paid in taxes in the past? The past is done.
Well then - who are these people - I don't know of any and I know a lot of business people - name some names -
Now if you are refering to "old money" there isn't any anymore - it's been spent.
Tell me what age group do you think the people are who work on "wall street" and how much do you think they had when the started working there? Do you know?
And as far as businesses go - how does a business get started? Does someone walk in with millions and say - hey, lets start a business.
Give me some real facts on your statements then maybe I'll agree with what you say.
You can start here, and you know who I'm talking about. These people have been known for years. The most despicable of them are the Kochsuckers, Adelson, and that whole bunch. They are trying to buy the country by buying the government. Romney was their pawn. But the people won...this time. But the people will lose eventually if they are not smart enough to keep up with what these assholes are trying to do. With shit like Citizens United and unlimited campaign contributions. Yeah...real humanitarians alright. Brotherly love everywhere.
Sorry dog, but if you believe Obama started the rage against the affluent class then you've been living in a right wing bubble your whole life. If any one started this feud, it'd have to be Lewis Powell and his memo to the entitled whiners of America.
Outstanding point. Lewis created a monster. Buckley helped.
His monster, I believe, is a good example of a self fulfilling prophecy.
The "evil" wealthy bailed out on society some 30 odd trillion dollars ( hidden off shore ) ago.
These people know that they are paying the lowest tax rates in history. What could they possibly be scared of? They're millionaires. They know that even if they're taxed at 39%, on over $400k, they'll still be millionaires.
Is it possible, just possible, that they believe that increasing government revenue through higher taxation might help to bring down the debt? Gee I don't know. Kinda like the same thing that was done 80 years ago. When the top tax rate was increased to 90% when the debt was at a similar 100% of GDP level. And guess what?! That debt was paid down to a manageable 30% of GDP within 30 years.
Of course it's not gonna happen in 4 years. Jeesh. Don't be ridiculous. It took us 30 years to get into this mess. It's gonna take more than 4 or 8 to get out.
What you and a lot of others don't realize is this - there are going to be people who will do whatever it takes to become millionaires and there will be people who will envy them.
So, which side of the fence are you on - a person who wants to become succesful and knows you can be, or a person who wants to complain about someone else being successful knowing full well they haven't a clue as to what is required to be successful.
Now I must point out I didn't say "billionaire or millionair" I said successful.
The opportunities are still out there for anyone to to it - but I guess it's too hard for most people to grasp and want the easy way out by allowing the government to use their powers to reign in the "evil rich and wealthy" because they know of no other way to succede. .
That's why you have a lot of people on this site who advocate Socialism. Fuck Capitalism!!! It is the most sinister and exploitive system ever devised. It is destroying the planet and it is psychopathic!!! You better be glad that I'm not god. because if I were I would snap my fingers and do away with both the rich and the poor and create one comfortable middle-class and that's it. The rich can go straight to hell as far as I'm concerned. What are they doing to help those who are dying in the streets? Not a goddamn thing. Even if some of them are, they are doing it to get a charitible tax deduction. They NEVER do it out of any sense of true altruism...at least most of them don't. Don't give me any of your shit. I have been watching how these assholes operate all of my life. And they never change. Even if they come from nothing most of them become intoxicated by their wealth. They begin to run together in their clans and engage in wealthy groupthink. It is self-perpetuating. There may be a few of them here and there who retain some sanity, but most are revolting, as in Revolt of the Rich.
[Removed]
Maybe these millionaires are all talk? It seems that they have trouble finding their check books when the time comes to put their money where their mouth is:
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/17/video-patriotic-millionaires-insist-on-draft-rather-than-enlistment-or-something/
Kind of a step in the right direction except: "...when the federal government spent one out of every five dollars rather than one out of every four in the American economy..."
This quote indicated the writer has never analized the Outlays of the Federal Government. If you benchmark back to Bill Clinton, you would say DOD has increased 165.69% from $256 B to $680 B in 2011.
hm...War ends in Iraq, but no decrease in Military Budget. I can go along with that in that war equipment needs to be fixed, but what we see is not a contraction in US DOD world presence. We are now a sustaining world empire. We maintain a world Empire at over $600 Billion Dollars a year.
So why then do we not demand tribute from the countries we are protecting?
Which countries are you referring to?
You can't think of any?
How about:
Canada The EU (NATO) Israel Japan ROC South Korea
Where is all the free oil that we were promised from Iraq? Afghanistan is oozing with natural resources. Why don't they kick in?
Apart from Israel and S Korea, I guess the other nations are protected by implication. Australia and New Zealand signed a type of agreement with the US, a long time ago, but it seems to cost us a lot to stick by the US in all of these coalition against "evil" missions we join in on.
Not protected by implication, protected by US $ and blood.
The US has saved those nation $ trillions in defense expenditure, plus many would not exist as free nations if not for the US.
I beg to differ.
It costs Australia dearly to cowtow to US directives. New Zealand isn't quite so zealous when it comes to towing the US line, but they're still part of the ANZUS agreement.
Can you indicate which nation might have saved themselves "trillions"? of dollars by being a patsy to US "blood"???
Face it, if not for the US all of Europe (and probably North Africa, Russia, and the Middle east ) would all be speaking German today.
New Zealand? Australia? Nice places to go surfing and to make Hollywood movies; not of much consequence otherwise.
Pardon my chuckles, but I've heard this bullshit before.
Without bases in Australia and New Zealand, the US naval fleet would be sailing blind in the southern hemisphere.
We all scratch eachothers' backs. Don't forget it.
You might like to familiarise yourself with the competence of our submariners in a one-on-one mission with the US fleet. http://youtu.be/nqFVOL7mLd4
1aquaticcritter always so positive ain'tcha.
I calls em as I sees em.
It's hard to get people to part with their cash, no matter how much they have.
Does this help you understand what are up against?
http://truth-out.org/news/item/13000-nine-ceos-trying-to-shred-the-safety-net-while-pigging-out-on-corporate-welfare