Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: Does any one really believe that the oil Business is not corrupt?

Posted 2 years ago on March 5, 2012, 9:54 p.m. EST by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Bush and Saudi Prince. Celebrating the future wet dreams of pure profit fossil fuel speculation. Picture taken during Bush administration which saw the launch of unprecedented profits for oil speculators leading to bleeding the economy white just prior to the toxic meltdown on WallStreet.


Sen. Sanders Leads Effort to Clamp Down on Oil Speculators

Rampant speculation has artificially pushed up gasoline prices to nearly $4 a gallon. Sen. Bernie Sanders “is fighting back,” ABC News reported. A letter signed by 70 members of Congress – 23 senators and 47 members of the House – told federal regulators to enforce provisions of the Wall Street reform law and curb speculation in crude oil markets.

They stressed that gasoline prices are up despite high supplies and low demand. According to the Energy Information Administration, the supply of oil and gasoline is greater today than it was three years ago, when the national average price for a gallon of gasoline was just $1.90. Today, the national average is more than $3.70 a gallon at a time when the demand for oil in the U.S. is at its lowest level since April of 1997.

Citing a recent report from Goldman Sachs, a major oil speculator, Forbes magazine said excessive oil speculation adds $.56 to the price of a gallon of gas. Exxon Mobil, the Saudi Arabian government, the American Trucking Association, Delta Airlines, the Petroleum Marketers Association of America and the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis agree excessive oil speculation significantly increases oil and gasoline prices.

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100084830.557414.184&gen=1&mailing_linkid=44565

139 Comments

139 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

There arent too many industries more corrupted than this one

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

They are totally corrupt!!!

I so tired of seeing their propaganda commercials on TV as well. Who in the hell in they kidding? They act as if their out on the forefront of researching and developing alternative fuels. What a sham!!!

I could puke my guts out every time I see one of those deceptive commercials which is only about all the damn time. They have all over the place. It's either

The Puzzler

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

If we could use their media lies against them - publicly pull down their pants - it would be so good for our cause.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Absolutely it would. It so obscene how much money they have. It's hard to fight against the BIG OIL. Soft-minded folks buy this crap, hook, line, and sinker!!! It's disgusting!!!

The Puzzler

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

For now all we can do is share out this information as best we can using the internet social media and word of mouth. Because the public is not going to see it any-other way right now. WE must educate and spread the word, awareness must come from groups like this for now.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Totally agree DK. This is a hotbed issue that has many repercussions if not dealt with soon. We do need to educate others. We need to raise awareness. I'm very active signing petitions and writing to politicians. I write to newspaper with editorials. We have to use every tool we have available to expose their selfish greedy ways.

Thanks for your unwavering support. I'm glad your here to bring these things up it's very important.

The Puzzler

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thank you Puzzlin it is a team effort and we all bring something to the game and when we collaborate good things happen.

We are beginning to make the difference.

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Absolutely. And I appreciate your kind words. We are making a difference and we will continue doing. Many people once they get involved, stay involved. It's infectious. The evident truth is the reward in itself for all our trouble. It's a beautiful thing once we realize it.

The Puzzler

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep - It is just taking that 1st step and then you realize HEY this is really great. I love how it makes me feel when good things happen. Then you ask - Why have I never done this before? Yep it can be quite a nice addiction. Healthy too.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

That's a good way to put it. Positive feedback always helps and the most beautiful thing is when you stand with truth eventually it does triumph!!!

The Puzzler

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I understand oil is up due to speculation

that Iran might close the strait of Hormuz

in retaliation for western economic sanctions

.

Iran haven't

oil has rising due to speculation

[-] 1 points by pewestlake (947) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Iran will never, repeat never, close the Straight of Hormuz, for three reasons: 1) they need the money; 2) China and Russia need the oil; 3) they don't have the firepower to sustain a blockade of the entire waterway. The speculators aren't very smart about the geopolitics of the world. They just know a sucker in the making. And that's where the gyrations come from.

[-] 2 points by doitagain (234) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

thanks. the truth is always hitnhttp://occupywallst.org/forum/who-still-disbelieve-in-availability-irans-nuclear/

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

thanks

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It's always been mostly speculation that have driven the prices. Unregulated speculation.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

2 ?????????????

3 profit

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Are you asking to who's profit?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

it's a south park joke

South Park Underpants Gnomes Profit plan

the oil companies are making profit by raising oil prices on speculation

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Doh! That is funny. Thanks for the education.

Yeah that is pretty much how it is done.

[-] 1 points by Marlow (1141) 2 years ago

Oil is going Back Down.. since Open on Monday.

and with the new pipeline info.. we should see oil go as low as 92 a Barrel again. a t least in 2 weeks...

So Speculation is ALL Rumor and Conjecture..which is ruled by the HenchFunds and Banks... So yes.. the OIL Prices are all traded on bogus Hype!

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Always have been. They just needed someone to call them on it and make it stick. Thank God someone did. They were running this country straight into the ground. It will be very interesting to see what transpires from here.

[-] 2 points by Marlow (1141) 2 years ago

Ty DK.. ( hitting the 'Like But' for ya!)

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You sweetheart. Thank you.

[-] 0 points by shamefuldays (-42) 2 years ago

Yes, prices only go up because of "speculation", never down. LOL. Are you really this stupid?

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Bernie....Bernie....Benie..my former Congressman, now Senator...it will be a sad day when he leaves office!

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

He is pretty much one of a kind.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Yes, he is a real people person, and the people of Vermont are very lucky to have him. The democrats dare not run anyone against him as that would ensure a republican win.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

One can hope that Mr. Sanders will be around for awhile.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I hope I am wrong, but I do think I heard that he was retiring.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

In that case let us pray he finds someone worthy to support taking over from him.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I have wondered about that, and whether he has groomed a like-minded person to relace him, not too many people would have the fire in their belly for the people like him though. You're a late bird too, eh?

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Huh? >>> [ You're a late bird too, eh? ]

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 2 years ago

Yeah it is like 3 AM here.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Yes...I have gotten to be more so since I have gotten invloved with you radicals. :-)

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 2 years ago

Is humanity corrupt? Destroying its air for comfort? Yep, the human evolutionary program is corrupted and there is no way free speech can have the required meaning to share the knowledge that humanity needs to change and prevent extinction.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Its not all of Humanity. It is those who are in power who are fucking us over. It is why people are starting to wake-up and sound off. We are not dead yet. We are beginning to unite in common cause - the health and prosperity for all. We are beginning to make a difference now as we start to confront corruption miss-management, greed, crime, non-accountability, no-responsibility. The People are beginning to awaken. Government is starting to respond. Now we just need to continue what we are doing to apply pressure and spread awareness and education. Once we are fully involved we can not ever walk away again. We must own our process's and not trust them to be maintained properly without us.

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 2 years ago

As long as media is given credibility, we are corrupt. Corrupted by insignificant, petty social fears learned from previous generations that are now dominating society when it needs to share its purposes widely.

DKAtoday wrote We are beginning to unite in common cause -

The most common cause is Article V, and I see no unity whatsoever. I see mass confusion, a form of corruption, people allowing themselves to be mislead just to feel social comfort.

Only Article V has the needed authority to make changes and see demands met. The movement leadership is corrupt and refuses to discuss their strategy.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Article V at this time I believe would be a mistake as the process could so easily be manipulated against us at this point in time.

We are beginning to make progress and we need to be patient and build our momentum. When we have a significant portion of the population at large taking part - then that will be the time to consider an Article V convention. Right now it would be too easy too be shot in the head.

We make progress, every day more people are becoming aware. Let us continue with steady progress education and inspiration. Change is beginning to happen.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You see? Thank you GF.

http://www.alec.org/publications/article-v-handbook/

This is so subtly evil. They ( ALEC ) want us to call for this while they prime the pumps to flush us down the toilet.

We are already making advances to regaining control and redirecting the government back to the service of the people. If ALEC can push this issue into happening now we are totally screwed. We need to engender so much more public awareness.

[-] -1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 2 years ago

Flock of sheep with momentum headed for cliff.

http://i41.tinypic.com/21lpddz.gif

We cannot get an Article V convention without a "significant portion of the population at large taking part".

Most importantly that "significant portion of the population at large taking part" needs to know HOW to prevent a convention from being "manipulated against us" before it considers an Article V BECAUSE* without that measure being known, the "significant portion of the population at large taking part" will not know how an Article V can be absolutely safe, peaceful, lawful revolution completely for our interests**.

There was a time that I thought as you did about Article V, but there are some people really thinking about our constitution and how to defend it. Since then, I've realized that these proposals are by far the most constitutional of all that can be found because they acknowledge how f'ddddd up America is, wherein hijacking a convention is possible, wherein the proposal is to fix the critical aspects first at convention THEN continue with general amendments. All in the interests of seeing amendments have constitutional intent, just like Article V requires. It's awesome.

http://articlevconvention.org/showthread.php?33-Amendment-By-Layers-Of-Priority-Amendment-Package-Making-CONST.-Intent

http://articlevconvention.org/showthread.php?15-What-initial-amendments-will-improve-and-empower-the-conditions-of-a-convention

Seriously check out the other amendment .org's like movetoamend.org, bordc.org, or even other Article V forums like, https://www.conventionusa.org/news.php or other movements, http://www.restoringfreedom.org/ then this one, http://www.the99declaration.org

All great intentions, but ZERO legal process with their strategy. I mean ZERO.

I suggest education into useful and valid strategy.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

Ultimately I don't think it matters whether they are corrupt or not. What matters, IMHO, is that corporations, no corporations no matter what enterprise they happen to be organizing, serve the interest of the vast majority. By the way they are organized corporations serve only the interests and needs of their investors. A just social movement would seize all corporate resources and reorganize them democratically in the interest of the vast majority. Clearly OWS is far too tiny to do that yet, but personally I do believe that should be our goal.

[-] 1 points by center93 (12) 2 years ago

Define the connotation of "corrupt" as used in the headline.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4650) 2 years ago

Oil Business is a Stink Bomb.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

The good news is.

We can reduce it's hold on us immediately.

If everyone takes part.

We move forward - Together.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4650) 2 years ago

Yes.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks for the shout-out.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4650) 2 years ago

You are welcome.

[-] 1 points by GreedKills (1119) 2 years ago

The Bubblemakers must make a profit in this economy of Bubbles!!! Enron is a perfect example of the greed gone wild.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep they fucked-up a lot of people.

Time to change the game.

[-] 1 points by GreedKills (1119) 2 years ago

You are so right, this has gone on for far too long!!!

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That's why we are here. This is a very visible manifestation of the peoples having had enough. This forum is a small taste of public outrage.

So - Stand-up Speak-up Stand-up for your rights. - B. Marley.

It is happening.

[-] 1 points by GreedKills (1119) 2 years ago

Won't you help to sing These songs of freedom? 'Cause all I ever have Redemption songs Redemption songs Redemption songs Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery None but ourselves can free our mind Woh, have no fear for atomic energy 'Cause none of them-a can-a stop-a the time How long shall they kill our prophets While we stand aside and look? Yes, some say it's just a part of it We've got to fullfill the book Won't you help to sing These songs of freedom?

[-] 1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

If it was corrupt as you say, why hasn't the Obama Administration taken the oil companies or for that matter the speculators to task and charge them because of the increase in gasoline prices here in the US.

Why aren't gasoline prices high in countries that produce oil?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

We are the #1 producer in the world.

So why are they so high?

US market speculation.

I think that's what the thread is about.

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

We are not the #1 producer of oil in the world. Here is a list of countries that produce way more oil then we do and the prices they pay for a gallon of gasoline.

  1. Venezuela — $0.18 per gallon

  2. Saudi Arabia- $0.48 per gallon

  3. Libya — $0.54 per gallon

  4. Turkmenistan — $0.72 per gallon

  5. Bahrain- $0.78 per gallon

  6. Kuwait — $0.84 per gallon

  7. Qatar — $0.90 per gallon

  8. Egypt — $1.14 per gallon

  9. Oman — $1.20 per gallon

  10. Algeria — $1.20 per gallon

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

That's a list of exporters.

But still. Why give these speculators a free lunch?

[-] -3 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

No reason to if we were producing more oil in this country. Things would change drastically if we did that.

Then we could move on to building nuclera plants to get ready for all those electric cars that are going to be built in the next 10 or so years.

If we don't do something about our electrical supply we will be having brown outs in 10 years.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You never answered the original question.

You never addressed the facts.

I posted at length on our electric grid some time ago.

I won't do it again. Though I will ask you why you think "we" need to address it?

[-] -1 points by aflockofdoofi2 (-66) 2 years ago

Precisely outline how specilators cause oil prices to rise?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

WallStreet made the bet, controlled the field and won.

Somebody has to pay off the bet. Guess who?

http://money.howstuffworks.com/oil-speculation-raise-gas-price.htm

It's an on going bet, and WallStreet is still upping it.

That's how rackets work, silly.

[-] -1 points by aflockofdoofi2 (-66) 2 years ago

So who trades in these highly speculative bets? You? Me? Or is this a game being pkayed by experts?

Every trade in futures has a buyer and seller and they are both experts.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Just read the damn thing and stop asking silly questions.

Whoever wins or loses the bet....we lose!

It's a racket! That's how they work.

WallStreet works like the mafia, in so many ways.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You bet, unregulated futures speculation. The real cost of oil and gas to the consumer has nothing to do with cost of getting it or the cost of processing. It has to do with the cost of trading millions and billions of barrels of oil through several hands or more each day and the oil never moves an inch.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Money for nothing and their lunch for free. Including drinks and a tip.

Fill 'er up?

No Wait!! That's even do it yourself now.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep. The full service days. Can you believe they stopped that practice because it was too expensive? Lot of people were looking for new jobs when that went down. ( not that it was a good way to make a living - I'm just sayin it was deemed to expensive).

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Time is money.

Our time = Their money.

As I recall, prices didn't drop when they went to self serve.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Hell they would have been making up for all of that expensive labor.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Pump jockey was at the minimum wage of $4.00hr.

As I now recall some stations did go through a transition, and self serve pumps were slightly lower, until the transition was complete.

Then the prices were raised again.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That is the cycle. Raise the price with a jump let it linger for awhile than drop it back down (some not all the way) then have another jump, linger, drop ....... and repeat always getting a little higher than the last low. This action has gone nuts since just before 2000. And here we are today in a severely stifled economy hanging on by our fingernails. ( BTW that was very good money back then ).

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I remember it being tough making the house payment at $4.00hr.

I was very happy to find a job at $4.50 w health insurance and 6mo performance review.......:)

[-] -2 points by DKAtroll (7) 2 years ago

See, you should love America! A place where people like you should pay to clean my toilets, yet, is populated with fools that still gave you money to have to suffer you!

We both know you were never worth $4.50 a year, much less an hour.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Dream on, oh deluded one.

I left that job for $24hr, and worked for every penny.

You should try that sometime.

It pays a lot more than ineffectual troll.

[+] -4 points by DKAtroll (7) 2 years ago

Ha ha! That's such a riot that you'd never understand why even if it were explained to you at the third grade level.

It's not so much how much you make (and for most that's for somebody else) it's what you do with it.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I'm happily retired.

Have you even started yet?

You're just a lame repetitive joke, so don't try standup comedy.

You'll fail.

[-] -1 points by DKAtroll (7) 2 years ago

W O R K ING plantations you don't own is for sheeples that rightfully lack faith in their own abilities.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

There you are -1 points by DKAtroll (0) 10 minutes ago

W O R K ING plantations you don't own is for sheeples that rightfully lack faith in their own abilities. ↥like ↧dislike permalink

I have been looking all over for you. I am disappointed in you, I thought at 1st that it was flattering to have a personalized troll. But really. I mean. Is this really all the better you can do? This is not very entertaining stuff. Work on it your embarrassing me.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

There's my little troll. Are you being a good boy, are you? Are you providing plenty of shits and giggles for our viewing audience. OH what a good trolly you are.

Here boy here ... that's a good trolly wolly.

Now sit...sit..........Good good little troll...

Now open your mouth I've got a treat for you - yes I do - oh yes I dooo.

Hold still now and stop wiggling your but so much.........yes I know your excited....... hold still now...that's it... open wide... who knew that you could take a shit and feed your troll.

Huh.

They really seem to like it too.

Makes their coat all shiny.

My my ............ my own personalized little troll ...I still just can't get over how proud I am.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Oh........you have a fan? It's been busy.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

1 points by GirlFriday (3473) 4 minutes ago

Reported? ↥like ↧dislike permalink


No. It's pathetic and it's obvious, and good for a chuckle or two so far.

Besides you have one. Now we have so much more we can talk about.

When we take a break from real issues that matter.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

That's a good way to look at it.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I'm so proud.

My very own personalized trolly.

I think it was sent by someone from an LL Bean gift catalog.

It really is a very thoughtful gift.

It's a good thing my time is flexible. They are a little slow on the uptake.

It will probably take me for ever to train.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Reported?

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks, I try to be a silver-lining type of guy.


-] 1 points by GirlFriday (3473) 3 minutes ago

That's a good way to look at it. ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well situations vary. I mean gas was still near $0.25 a gallon. Minimum wage for many jobs was under $1.00. I remember my 1st part time job - paid .35 an hour +tips.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Troll-boy. You have been around here for awhile - don't play dumb. Getting government to work is what we are all about here. Getting it to work and fighting corruption all corruption. Then here comes an indicator of change.

Huh. as to your 2nd question maybe they don't need to rape their people. Perhaps they are happy with having the rest of the world over a barrel.

You'd better call your best bud Rushing Limpballs and offer your condolences over the death of his career. There there that's a good troll run along and play now.

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

You still didn't answer the question - if you say it is corrupt - why isn't anything being done about it?

So tell me oh wise one, just what is being done to fight the corruption you speak of?

I sure as hell don't see any lawsuits being filed on your behalf or on the behalf of anyone else who claims they are corrupt.

You may talk the talk but you have yet to prove what you say.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Apparently SFB you have not read the article and considered what it means.

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

Are you kidding me - do you really think that piece of paper means anyting? Like I said, if there is corruption going on someone would be on trial.

After several investigations by our present Obimination Administration - no one has yet to be charged. What does that tell you.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This has been going on from before you were born. This has been established procedure for decades. There was a time around 40 years ago when there was a cap placed on oil profits/prices that was back in the days of the 1st government subsidies ( which they are still getting). Since then there has never been enough public outrage or outcry to force the issue.

Guess what?

There is now.

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

Correct me if I am wrong but what you are referring to happened during the depression.

It is my understanding that was changed back in either the late 40's or 50's. So as it stands now, there are no regulations on oil speculation today for if there was you and I along with the rest of the country would definitely be made aware of it.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That is why we have been getting fucked up the ass for decades on inflated prices. There has been no regulation. This is what is being addressed by those 70 elected officials now. Will there be charges brought (?) not damn likely. But there could be a real adjustment for the price charged being related to actual production cost.

[-] -1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

Look, if we in this country are allowed to drill for all the oil we need it would without a doubt bring not only gasoline prices down but anything else used in the production of oil.

But in order to do that we need to make it clear to our present administration that he isn't doing what's good for this country.

You can't expect electrical cars to dominate the automotive industry - the technology isn't there yet.

It's going to take time and during that time we need some kind of temporary relief until that happens - probably within the next 20 years or so.

Do we want this country to remain hostage to oil producing countries that hate us when we could produce our own oil and in return drive the market prices so low that their turbins will spin.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

drive smaller cars

[-] 1 points by pewestlake (947) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Oil production in the US has increased dramatically since Obama came to office.

http://205.254.135.7/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=US&trk=m#pet

Some of that is increased shale production (not Obama) and some of it is more access to deep water sites (Obama 2 months after Deepwater Horizon). Last year, the U.S. became a net oil exporter for the first time in decades.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203441704577068670488306242.html

It still hasn't brought the price down because speculation overrides supply/demand. And electric and hybrid tech is moving along just fine. If everyone had to pay the real price of gas -- $8 to $10 per gallon -- electric cars would be cheap by comparison. If you don't like paying people for things you don't use or could use more efficiently, you should be in favor of ending oil subsidies and rampant oil speculation.

Simplistic solutions don't fit complex systems.

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

So, who can afford to pay $8 - $10 a gallon? Yah, if the price was at that level, then the playing field would be even between solar panels, electrical cars and the like.

Who has the money to go out and pay $25,000 for a new vehicle with the way the economy is. $25,000 will get you a long way down the road on gasoline. $25,000 won't get you that far before your battery runs out and it takes 13 hours to charge. it.

[-] 1 points by pewestlake (947) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

In 2010 there were 246 million cars on the roads in America. Roughly 10 million cars are sold every year. If half the cars sold in America were electric or hybrid, we'd turn the entire fleet over in 50 years. You suppose we can nail the technology down in five decades? Maybe?

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This is the future available to start immediately - Today.

http://www.hopewellproject.org/ People send this link viral!

I'll give ya a bump and raise you an E CAT and an LFTR.

http://ecat.com/

Sorry, I have miss quoted this as LFNR. the T stands for thorium. It's a "clean fission" option.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/ff_new_nukes/all/1 - This was in reference to clean fusion generators. Thanks again shooz.

Or scale-up the process that was used to power the Hydrogen House. I'm not even sure of the process that was used to fill the cars fuel cell. These are the kinds of things to explore in pushing this technology forward. If they can build an effectively Hydrogen powered house ( a stand alone system ) I don't see why that same technology process could not be applied elsewhere in other applications.

[-] 1 points by FreeDiscussion5 (12) 2 years ago

If Obama wanted YOU to have lower gas prices,, he would do it. If YOUR government wanted you to have lower gas prices,,, it would. What's you problem? Remember,,,, he has ALLLLL the power.

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

The even bigger and arguably better question is: Does anyone really believe that our entire government and everyone that works for it is not corrupt?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

Demand is going up a lot fast than the supply. China and India increase their oil consumption by about 6% each per year. That is a huge increase in world demand when you consider they combined make up about a third of the world's population.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Did you even look at the report?

[-] 0 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

I did and I realize they say that oil supply went up by more than demand for that single quarter that they quote. But the price of oil is influenced by future trends, not last quarter, and the long term trends are clearly demand outpacing supply.

That is unless other sources of energy, preferably clean ones, can make some major advances. Those advances will come along quicker the higher the price of oil goes, which I guess is one of the few positives that can be taken away from the rising cost of oil.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That is the "story". Do you honestly buy into that pile of garbage?

The oil demand is down because of green energy implementation.

The demand is down our import load is down our supplies are up and so are the prices. It is a crime of artificiality. And it looks like they may finally be getting called on it.

[-] 0 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

Oil demand may be slightly down in the US, but that is in my opinion due to the economy. If 1/3 of the world is growing it's oil consumption by 6% year over year, it isn't difficult to see how world demand is not also going up.

And green energy is not that widespread yet. I mean how many of the cars out there right now are not traditional gas powered? Not many. We have an SUV, I really don't want to but with a few kids and a couple dogs it almost becomes a necessity. We have very cheap gas compared to most other western countries and until that changes any reduction in demand here will not even come close to offsetting the surge in demand being seen in emerging markets.

And I buy into that story because it is common sense. Sure, speculation brings it up a little too, but it also has brought it down at times. Put a few bucks in something like XLE or other energy fund though and you won't mind it as much.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

oil companies drill a lot in this country tax free

that also keeps prices down

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

Very true.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What it all comes down to. Is that the price of a gallon of gas has very little to do with the cost of the raw material or it's processing. It is due to manipulation in the futures speculative market. Millions of barrels of oil trade hands and never moves an inch. It is all paper and or electronic transfer of bids. The Oil profits are staggering and have no basis on demand or supply. That is a fiction. Plain and simple FICTION.

[-] 0 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

Oil profits may be staggering but any American can take part in those profits. You can have made a lot more money on a few oil stocks than the increase in money needed to put gas in you tank over the last few years. Because even though we will have to agree to disagree on the causes, we both agree that oil prices will continue to rise. Making energy a part of one's portfolio is a nice cushion against rising gas prices.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Give it a rest. The price of oil and gas has nothing to do with the cost of purchasing the crude nor in the processing of it. Approximately 80 to 90 % of what we pay comes out of futures trading. Period.

It has been unregulated for decades, and now it looks like it may finally be regulated once more. The rape of America for power may be coming to an end. Period.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

Do you have a source for that 80-90% figure? I have a hard time believing that with no futures trading, my gas would only cost 35 cents per gallon.

A lot of what you say simply makes no sense. I agree with you that speculation can cause an increase in price, and it should be regulated, it is simply not to the magnitude you think. It won't have huge, drastic effects on prices. China AND India are projected to double their oil consumption in under 12 years. You really cannot see how that also has an impact on prices?

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

80-90 maybe a small stretch - but very small. Here this from another participant look at it and you figure it out:

1 points by SteveKJR (488) 8 hours ago

We are not the #1 producer of oil in the world. Here is a list of countries that produce way more oil then we do and the prices they pay for a gallon of gasoline.

Venezuela — $0.18 per gallon

Saudi Arabia- $0.48 per gallon

Libya — $0.54 per gallon

Turkmenistan — $0.72 per gallon

Bahrain- $0.78 per gallon

Kuwait — $0.84 per gallon

Qatar — $0.90 per gallon

Egypt — $1.14 per gallon

Oman — $1.20 per gallon

Algeria — $1.20 per gallon

↥like ↧dislike reply permalink

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

Well that link you provided above in that original post pegs the speculative premium at 56 cents per gallon, which with current prices is more like 15%, not 80-90% - that is a big stretch. So even if speculation was completely ended, it would result in only about a 15% reduction at the pump.

So yes, speculation can increase the cost of oil, but so does an improving economy, increasing global demand, uncertainty over supply routes, and exploration in more difficult environments (ie deep sea).

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Junk fossil fuel before it junks us. We have the technology.

[-] 0 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

I agree, but we are years away from it. Higher oil prices are the best way to speed up the conversion to cleaner energy.

The incentive just isn't there right now to make the switch. You can get something like an Acura TL or a Lexus or a BMW for the price of a Chevy Volt. I mean, who on Earth would take the Volt out of that group? Not many because anyone who has $40K to spend on a car probably isn't that sensitive to gas prices at their current levels anyways.

It is really a catch-22. What is good for the economy (lower oil prices) is bad for the environment and vice versa. The solution is for the clean technology to become much much cheaper, and that will come with time just like any other technology. For now though, we are going to have to keep using fossil fuels.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It is here it is now it just needs to be done.

This is the future available to start immediately - Today.

http://www.hopewellproject.org/ People send this link viral!

I'll give ya a bump and raise you an E CAT and an LFTR.

http://ecat.com/

Sorry, I have miss quoted this as LFNR. the T stands for thorium. It's a "clean fission" option.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/ff_new_nukes/all/1 - This was in reference to clean fusion generators. Thanks again shooz.

Or scale-up the process that was used to power the Hydrogen House. I'm not even sure of the process that was used to fill the cars fuel cell. These are the kinds of things to explore in pushing this technology forward. If they can build an effectively Hydrogen powered house ( a stand alone system ) I don't see why that same technology process could not be applied elsewhere in other applications.

[-] -1 points by FreeDiscussion5 (12) 2 years ago

Who cares? Obama can fix it with one stroke of his pen. Whats your point?

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Points been made. Use that little wheel on your mouse. Feel free explore. See if there is something you can learn.

Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-] -1 points by Chugwunka (89) from Willows, CA 2 years ago

I fail to see the point of this.....

[-] -3 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

what about the solar, and wind industries? they are doing so well robbing the tax payers with nothing to show. at least the oil companies give us a real product.

[-] 1 points by Anti385 (58) 2 years ago

Oh yea, the oil companies sure have something to show. In price gouging and pollution. Yeah!!!!!!

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What-Ever.

You think our oil demand has gone down because - Why?

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

because the price of oil has gone up and we have more efficient cars. What-Ever is the Loser signature response. How are those Solyndra solar cells doing?

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Get a grip. Oil is going down - check the news - yep even MSM is leaking the story. Imagine that.

It really is to bad about Solyndra, I understand they had a really efficient solar cell. Just think with continuous improvements to the solar cell with improvements to wind tech. the addition of cold fusion power plants the development of Hydrogen power tech.

WOW. Breathable air and plummeting oil prices. Who woulda thought.

Thanks for stopping by to celebrate the good news.

Please come again.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3015) 2 years ago

Solyndra's product looks dorky - only people who can see the efficiency can love it and there are very few of those people around. Cold fusion power plants and hydrogen power technology may just be pies-in-the-sky schemes.

Oil will reign for decades in mobile transports no matter what happens but the transition away from oil must happen meanwhile or we will have very dire conditions at the end of the period. Efficiency in transport engines, reducing transport mass, and user planning and ingenuity will provide the most significant equivalent "finds" of oil reserves.

To reduce the effect of speculation in oil, increase the margin requirement and work on stabilizing the geopolitical situations around oil-producing countries. Some speculation is always necessary to provide adjustments to the oil markets to re-balance supply with demand at new price points but the excessive amount of speculative capitals available due to low margin requirements can cause undesirable gyrations in prices. These gyrations benefit the fast gunslingers in the oil futures market and must be dampened. Iran's nuclear ambition and the threats ensuing play right into the hands of the fast gunslingers (who may very well surprise Islamic Iran by being Jewish and can use that money politically for animating a U.S. attack on Iran which would benefit them even MORE).

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

i'm for electric cars and nuclear power plants, but to say that oil companies are corrupt and overlook the cronyism going on in the 'green' energy industry , is not very occupy like.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I know your depressed, what will you do for work when you run out of troll material.

OH well I'm sure you'll be fine.

I mean there is always work for a troll.

Hey?

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 2 years ago

OK. Adios, loser.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That's OK.

You just hold on to your dreams.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Sierra Club update:

Dear Dan, Stand Up To Big Oil! BP oil disaster 3 Send Your Letter

It has been two years to the day since the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded in the Gulf of Mexico, nineteen months since the oil stopped gushing into the Gulf, and six months since BP announced their cleanup phase "finished."1

Now BP and Big Oil are back to business as usual in the Gulf and their sights are set on even riskier drilling projects. Big Oil wants to drill on every coast they can to maintain their record profits. Meanwhile, Gulf communities and coastlines are still suffering from their negligence.

It's time for local communities to take charge.

Tell President Obama: We, the people, should be in control of our coasts, not Big Oil.

http://action.sierraclub.org/site/R?i=V-b-HB3WeC_A_McalzU_xQ

After the tragedy began, we learned that BP's disaster response plan which had been approved by regulatory agencies was an error-filled copy-and-paste job riddled with "leftovers" from other plans, including a strategy to protect the Gulf's (non-existent) walrus population.2

The Gulf Coast has now paid the price for a broken system that allows Big Oil to make its own rules. We need to stand up for the Gulf Coast and communities all across the country that are at risk from Big Oil's dangerous and reckless approach to offshore drilling.

Ask President Obama put power back in the people's hands. We need Regional Citizens' Advisory Councils to give locals a powerful say in communities where drilling occurs and we should start with the Gulf Coast.

http://action.sierraclub.org/site/R?i=Gr52bAcRWQBHnAfsBXKhTA

Community members who live and work along the Gulf Coast understand best the long-lasting impacts of BP's oil and are fighting to hold BP accountable. They should be the ones our "experts" listen to -- people like:

Marylee Orr, a native Louisianan and founder of Louisiana Environmental Action Network, who has been working with communities across the Gulf Coast suffering from the effects of oil exposure; Phuong Ngyen, a Vietnamese fisherman from Buras, Louisiana, who has been going out for weeks, returning with a catch that will hardly feed his family; or Rip Kirby, a Florida geologist who is using UV lights to find toxic tar material that is concentrating along Gulf beaches.

Give citizens like Marylee, Phuong, and Rip a voice in protecting their communities and holding BP and Big Oil accountable.

Tell President Obama to create a Regional Citizens' Advisory Council for the Gulf Coast and wherever offshore drilling is happening or proposed.

http://action.sierraclub.org/site/R?i=oDFEsdVrpTTzqjlsBDsToQ

Thanks for all you do to protect the environment,

Jill Mastrototaro Gulf Coast Campaign Director Sierra Club

P.S. After you take action, be sure to forward this alert to your friends and colleagues!

http://action.sierraclub.org/site/R?i=vOpqFSVdZsqBOxKTYwkOxA


I added these two lines when I signed the petition:

They are catching mutated shrimp and crabs down in the Gulf now. BP's last spill repercussions are continuing.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Gulf update from Daily Kos:

Dan, please sign the picture of a mutant Gulf Coast crustacean we are sending to Speaker John Boehner. We are sending the picture along with a message telling him to pass legislation mandating that court-ordered fines paid by BP go toward the clean up and restoration of the Gulf Coast.

Please, click here to sign the mutant shrimp picture.

http://kos.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=U562en6Uz42pXbyNM7piz5tCFHNIAyXI

Two years after the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, local fisherman are finding huge numbers of mutant fish and crustaceans with deformities unlike anything they have ever seen. One local fisherman reported:

"Disturbingly, not only do the shrimp lack eyes, they even lack eye sockets." […]

"We are also finding eyeless crabs, crabs with their shells soft instead of hard, full grown crabs that are one-fifth their normal size, clawless crabs, and crabs with shells that don't have their usual spikes … they look like they've been burned off by chemicals."

This devastation to local fisheries is just one of the many ways Gulf Coast communities are struggling to recover from the gigantic BP oil spill. To help out, last month the U.S. Senate passed legislation mandating that 80 percent of all court-ordered fines paid by BP go toward local clean up and restoration. The legislation, known as the RESTORE Act, passed with the support of all Democrats and a majority of Republicans, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).

The RESTORE Act has stalled in the House because Speaker John Boehner has not held a vote on it. However, it will become increasingly difficult for him to continue procrastinating as these pictures of mutant seafood spread around the web. With nearly 100,000 shares on Facebook already, if House Republicans don't act soon it will become politically embarrassing.

Help pile on the embarrassment and pass the RESTORE Act by signing the picture of the mutant Gulf Coast shrimp we are sending to John Boehner.

Keep fighting, Chris Bowers, Daily Kos

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Big Oil shouldn't get to melt the Rockies for profit.

Dear Dan, Big Oil shouldn't get to melt the Rockies for profit. Take action! We need 20,000 comments by April 30th to stop the devastation.

Tell the federal government: No oil shale and no tar sands mining in the Rocky Mountains! Take action now!

Have you ever taken your family to the Rocky Mountains, or gone hiking there with friends?

We all know how awe-inspiring these national treasures can be -- but Big Oil wants to literally melt some of them for private profit.

This sounds crazy, but it's true. Oil companies are pushing to open vast sections of the Rockies for dirty tar sands and oil shale mining, and it's up to us to stop them. Oil shale mining requires dangerous experimental technology that heats rocks to nearly 1000 degrees to squeeze out tiny amounts of oil -- destroying habitats and cooking the climate along the way.

Sierra Club supporters like you have mobilized to shut down destructive oil projects before -- and it's critical we stop this one dead in its tracks. Tell the federal government: Don't let Big Oil melt public land for private profit.

http://action.sierraclub.org/site/R?i=v9fZfsGvqbb8dmVaCavpCA

Under President Bush, the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) opened over two million acres of public land to tar sands and oil shale mining. President Obama's administration is now considering dramatically reducing the amount of land available for these destructive projects. We have until April 30th to submit 20,000 public comments in support of this plan, showing that there is broad public backing for the climate, wildlife, and scarce Western water resources.

This comment period will determine the fate of the West for decades to come. Write the BLM by April 30th and let them know you strongly oppose tar sands and oil shale.

http://action.sierraclub.org/site/R?i=sisJaY0Dt2Rs018mcDbLhw

Along with the oil shale development that melts rocks, Big Oil also wants public land for tar sands mining -- the dirty oil behind the Keystone XL pipeline, and one of the dirtiest fossil fuels in the world. If allowed, these tar sands mines would be the first of their kind in the United States, destroying entire landscapes and poisoning vital water supplies. We can't give away our land to these corporations only to see them further cook the climate and destroy Utah the way they're already destroying the Boreal Forest.

Can you imagine the mountains of Colorado, Wyoming, or Utah stripped, their majestic rivers and wildlife lost forever? These lands are part of America's national heritage -- we must preserve them for future generations.

Without a significant public outcry, Big Oil will immorally destroy public land for private profit. The Rocky Mountains need you to be their voice -- take action now to make sure we reach 20,000 comments before the deadline.

http://action.sierraclub.org/site/R?i=TT9WbvPDPn0k5n51bWE9JQ

Michael Marx Sierra Club, Beyond Oil Director

P.S. After you take action, be sure to forward this alert to your friends and colleagues!

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 2 years ago

Yes, you are correct. These are important words. I have to think why I am so aloof from our great natural parks. Of course, we have to have some gas money and transporation in such a large country (capitolism).

Yes, I'm thinking. I beleive I have some emotional distance from the treasures of the USA. Not only am I a rebel, but emotionally withdrawn.

The glass is half empty for me. I have to believe in proper positive thoughts. I have to think Positive Action.

Do you remember "Strip Mining"? We have mountains in the Rockies that were denuded and it is sad. I guess some mountains are set aside for mining.

I should visit a park this week sometime...

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

"Big oil....melt the rockies for profit." No, instead they should just melt f...ing Wall St, The Federal Reserve, and a good part of Washington as well. It should be easy too as they are sewers.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Plenty of fat too.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Dear Dan,

http://support.edf.org/site/R?i=nXmOzbLT097_WrDS0sGjxw

Last month's record heat stunned meteorologists. It was the hottest March in U.S. history with an alarming 15,272 daily high temperature records set. Some records were shattered by 20 and even 30 degrees.

EPA Comment Counter Dan. Add your voice. Tell EPA you support limits on carbon pollution from new power plants. EPA One Click Action EPA Comments Message Tom Karl, Director of NOAA's National Climatic Data Center, described it as a "climate on steroids."

This is what climate change looks like.

It's time for our government to act -- and with one click you can deliver that message loud and clear by supporting EPA's proposed rule to limit industrial climate pollution from America's power plants.

We need to generate 100,000 comments before the comment deadline closes 60 days from today.

You can effect change and one click is all it takes today.

The EPA's proposed rule will set the first-ever climate pollution standards for our power sector and will help end dirty energy as we know it.

That's why the Dirty Air Lobby and their allies in Congress are fighting back even before the rule is finalized.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce came out against this rule and suggested it would be defeated in the courts.

And Senator James "Global Warming Is a Hoax" Inhofe (R-OK), the Senate's leading climate denier, has already pledged to fight it through Congressional action.

With your voice and support, we will stand as a united front in support of strong clean air and climate standards.

Please take action today to help us reach our 100,000 comment goal.

heather_shelby_signatureThank you for your activism and support, HeatherShelbySignature Heather Shelby Action Network Coordinator

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Bush and Saudi Prince. Celebrating the future wet dreams of pure profit fossil fuel speculation. Picture taken during Bush administration which saw the launch of unprecedented profits for oil speculators leading to bleeding the economy white just prior to the toxic meltdown on WallStreet.

See photo in the post above ^

Regulation still not done.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

3/06/2012 PROTECT Shell Oil Is Suing Us? Shell Oil Is Suing Us?

Shell Oil is suing the Sierra Club and other environmental organizations over its plans to drill in the Chukchi and Beaufort Seas -- the Polar Bear Seas -- of America's Arctic this summer.

The Polar Bear Seas are home to 20 percent of the earth's polar bears. Even worse, an oil spill there would be a disaster: it's dark two months out of the year, and the closest Coast Guard station is a thousand miles away, making cleanup a nightmare.

Stand up to Shell and sign our petition today. http://action.sierraclub.org/site/R?i=IKupUhqx2KjjGutszOpQHw

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (28124) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well the troll boys are still about.