Forum Post: Do you understand what would happen if you collapsed the banks?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 15, 2011, 11:25 p.m. EST by OccupyTheCapitol
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Most of you would not even survive at the result. A collapse of the banks would cause a complete economic collapse. Let me ask you this:
1) Could you support yourself when there is no more food on grocery store shelves?
2) Would you be able to defend yourself from riots and masses of hungry people and the lawlessness that will result from a complete economic collapse?
People these days do not know how to grow their own food, live without technology/electricity, after all, we are the entitlement generation. The resulting chaos would cause blood to spilled all over the streets. Is that what you want?
The southern states once said that you couldn't abolish slavery without collapsing the U.S. economy. Yet slavery was abolished, and it was the right thing to do, even if it made people uncomfortable for a few years. We need to end the banking system, the lending institutions, and the entire industry built on money that isn't really there.
I Well let’s be honest, the economy was massively destroyed for the south. They still feel the effects today in some regards. After all, it's not like the highest concentration of America's poor/uneducated moved there; they were raised there.
Most of the South has consistently under-invested in public universities. The long term poverty is a result of their social policy (or absence thereof).
I say most because Texas, which has a robust economy, has invested in high quality public Universities and reaped the benefits.
Sounds like you have never heard of southern collegiate football. Plenty of colleges there in the south.
College football doesn't improve overall economic health, quality education does. When the south realizes that their business, engineering and medical programs matter more than football you'll see an increase in their economic health.
Not so much. Name one top football program oriented school that doesn’t also have a good academic focus. They really do go hand in hand.
We need banks, letting them fail would have been disastrous.
The truth of the matter is that ordinary people are suffering because of poor choices that they had nothing to do with.
We just want to ensure that something is in place to prevent this from ever happening again!!
12-21-12 from this date on there will be peace and harmony
You can't suck me into the complexity argument... if we must suffer to get out of our mess, so be it... we must suffer to learn our lessons. I don't have to 'know' the outcome for me to say reset!
Throw out the dirty bastards who produce nothing themselves but find something of others to sell via playing-on fear or greed.
Why do you think they are only two options? Status quo or total destruction.
Oh, I'm sure there would an altered way of life if the banks collapsed. China would buy them up (which by the way have the largest banks in the world that we already borrow from towards our government spending).
Still, a collapse would have sifted out the corruption that feeds of greed.
Banks are collapsing themselves. Here is NC and SC, with all the fees, people are going to Credit Unions. I don't see how a fundamental shift in banking practice by the public causes the shelves to become bare. You are believing more lies by the establishment.
I agree that the supply chain for food and such would have some bad fits, but banks don't produce or ship food.
I don't believe every bank would collapse in an instant. Especially all of the ones that aren't in TBTF 11 or so.
And if they died and took everyone's deposits with them, FDIC insurance would kick in, probably producing a pretty scary inflationary event, but I presume we'd have money in our pockets.
I'm not going to pretend to know the precise outcome of a collapse, but I will suggest that we don't have a dichotomous choice between supporting a corrupt and unfair banking system or facing immediate starvation and riots.
If those were the only two option we'd really be helplessly screwed.
But does that mean we need a kind of higher order Gangsterism offering us protection from local thugs? Would slaves been better off enslaved, where they at least had some land on which they could reside rather than fend for themselves in the community at large? Those are some tough questions.
we'd have to make transactions in cash
only if you had the cash in hand and people we wiling to accept it. you have enough cash in hand?
no
can I can an encrypted voucher from a public open source on the internet ?
who sent you here to post Occupythecapitol?
You couldn't collapse the banks if you wanted to. We're not on the gold standard anymore.Our banking system is propped up by a government which prints the world's reserve currency.
http://pragcap.com/resources/understanding-modern-monetary-system
Dear
We do understand the results. I was on the collapse of the banks sistem of Argentina 2001. Actually there was a few weeks of collapse on food, fuel, but afterwords the calm and sun rise again. People before crisis had a surplous for 2 or more weeks of food, on crisis people use to make bert to handle situation, up to then it was fixed.
If USA needs a real Capitalism system banks must collapse if they dont do they job correctly, You for sure had seen many industris collapse, like textil industries in new york.
The food 1 day after or one later, will be the same. It will be just a short period of time that the system should adapt on how to comerce with new banks or new economic system.
If not, anyways with 15% of unemployment and rising up, chaos will be on your door.... if you do nothing...... so you should start thinking about how to solve it now.
1) banks have collapsed before without this scenario youre outlining
2) the course is unsustainable anyway, you propose we keep bailing them out over and over? it would take years and years to get glass-steagal reimplimented...by that time they could very well have collapsed anyway, if you study the trends
3) accepting a boot on your neck in the interest of safety is not a life worth living
We didn't collapse the banks they did it all on their own.
This broke yesterday....They are going to crash anyway.
BREAKING financial news to bailout the banks out once more
This story from Bloomberg just hit the wires this morning. Bank of America is shifting derivatives in its Merrill investment banking unit to its depository arm, which has access to the Fed discount window and is protected by the FDIC.
This means that the investment bank's European derivatives exposure is now backstopped by U.S. taxpayers. Bank of America didn't get regulatory approval to do this, they just did it at the request of frightened counterparties. Now the Fed and the FDIC are fighting as to whether this was sound. The Fed wants to "give relief" to the bank holding company, which is under heavy pressure.
This is a direct transfer of risk to the taxpayer done by the bank without approval by regulators and without public input. You will also read below that JP Morgan is apparently doing the same thing with $79 trillion of notional derivatives guaranteed by the FDIC and Federal Reserve.
What this means for you is that when Europe finally implodes and banks fail, U.S. taxpayers will hold the bag for trillions in CDS insurance contracts sold by Bank of America and JP Morgan. Even worse, the total exposure is unknown because Wall Street successfully lobbied during Dodd-Frank passage so that no central exchange would exist keeping track of net derivative exposure.
This is a recipe for Armageddon. Bernanke is absolutely insane. No wonder Geithner has been hopping all over Europe begging and cajoling leaders to put together a massive bailout of troubled banks. His worst nightmare is Eurozone bank defaults leading to the collapse of the large U.S. banks who have been happily selling default insurance on European banks since the crisis began.
http://dailybail.com/home/holy-bailout-federal-reserve-now-backstopping-75-trillion-of.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/five-banks-account-96-250-trillion-outstanding-derivative-exposure-morgan-stanley-sitting-fx-de
Could you support yourself when there is no more food on grocery store shelves?
Yes, if you live in Olancho.
www.republicofolancho.com
Could you support yourself when there is no more food on grocery store shelves?
Yes, if you live in Olancho.
www.republicofolancho.com
I believe we would all then begin to forget the pickles and therefore collapsing the banks is a very bad thing.
Discuss?
Well there is always commune living.
i recommend everybody read "the Creature from Jekyll Island"
The banks should be nationalized and run like a public utility in my opinion. If we arent going to do that they should be broken up and regulated sharply.
systems and game theory would tend to show that in fact this is very unlikely, however, if we fail to collapse the banks now, within 4 years the economic stresses would likely lead to that scenario. So, actually, your doom and gloom scenario is WHY we MUST collapse the banks NOW instead of allow them to flush all of civilization down the toilet with them.
I agree with you that most people at OWS have no idea that this will be the eventual outcome (and likely much sooner than many think).
However - the people won't be the ones who collapse the banks.
The banks will collapse under their own weight from the fiat currency/debt based ponzi scheme that we have created in all of the western nations.
And ultimately - yes, we will be much better off without the banks. We need alternative currencies to the one we have now - which only serves the 1% and the millionaire banksters who sit on the Federal Reserve Board and up in Congress.
It's only a matter of time. Do we give the big fat drunk guy teetering on the cliff's edge a push, or do we just wait until he falls off himself? Same result. I say, pull your own money out now and save yourself. All of your savings will be totally wiped out anyhow.
Why is the first thing to spew from protesters mouths is "You are a coward for believing what you believe"?
I've already pointed this out today, but the economy of Argentina collapsed in 1999 and the capitalists and bosses who could, fled the country. There was no Lord of the Flies situation. 1/3 of the entire country started participating in local democratic councils, while plenty of workers occupied their factories and places of work, ran them democratically, and continued to do their jobs. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_economic_crisis_(1999%E2%80%932002)#Worker-owned_cooperatives_and_self-management)
Was it easy? Was it all roses? Of course not! But the people came together and helped hold one another up when everything fell apart.
You exaggerate.
The banks have collapsed before, we didn't have massive food riots. Depression isn't the same as total social collapse. In terms of financial infrastructure we're in a better position than we were moving into the great depression, as we have both a central bank and deposit insurance.
Your deposit insurance is worthless.
For one thing, we know we cannot have any institution be too big to fail. We need them broken up and regulated.
Here are the answers to the questions you ask since you and I both know that this is the reason the banks and corporate America have made the masses dependent upon them by taking over the very things you ask about.
1) How does one feed, not support, themselves when they have no finance to purchase food or when food banks are bare anyway? Hence farms, and self contained gardens are necessary., but Corporate America doesn't want "individuals" to have those choices. But, there is plenty of land and many are doing so....despite Corporate America's interference. The Stores are gonna close anyhow, because the trucks are not going to be bringing food in. The true oil crisis has yet to peak. 2) Anarchy has nothing to do with Banks. Anarchy results from the systematic break down of society along with the defeat of the police, military, etc., not the banks. This country will not let that happen....that is why the Corporate America of the United States has the right to maintain such a force in its rules and regulations. Blood has been and will continue to be spilled in the streets across the globe until "Corporate" man understands that in this new era of time there are no boundaries to what people are willing to march for, fight for, and die for.
This movement is beyond Corporate control and the only way they can stop it is by annihilating the world population or creating another enemy for the populous to be afraid...like the unknown or UFO'S...
True
True, or Muslims and Mexicans - we've seen the enemy.
I know how to grow my own food. My husband and I built a hoophouse to grow winter greens and herbs. Most of the people on my street have gardens too. At least 5 people have their own chickens. I live in a suburb, not out in the country even. And this knowledge is growing in the culture. Learn the skills you need to survive and to build community before the system collapses. Because it is going to collapse. There is no way to know how long it can prop up the zombie. We all know this. This economy isn't based on anything. Just numbers on a screen and plastic crap from China that no one really needs, and that is killing our ecosystem. Learn to grow greens. Learn to keep chickens. Learn to make your own clothes. Learn to start a fire. Be unafraid, moving into the new world. This old one is falling away, and it's grand.
Amen! Me too - own chickens and have been growing my garden. Have to get greenhouse now that autumn is here. I've been talking to neighbors but unfortunately most of them are clueless.
I think most people will be very blindsided by the collapse of this system.
The person who posted this thread though - is stating it like the people are capable of collapsing the banks. You can't kick a dead, rotting horse.
The problem with this theory is that if you have a mortgage, you won't have the house in which to live or the land on which to grow. Hunting and fishing are much wiser choices, and uhh, perhaps buy a tent.
Your best insurance, truly, is ole reliable - like the Winchester 94 or maybe an AR15 with a bump stock.
doom
People should be able to remove their money out of ANY bank whenever they want to. Just like Lehman Brothers when it collapse into itself, the world kept turning. No one has to worry about a bank collapsing. That is what should happen to several "Too Big to Fail" banks right now. We need to teach the banks a valuable lesson that without us, they are nothing.
So yes, please do exactly like I did, remove YOUR money and close down all your bank accounts. I moved my money to a Credit Union and I get great service. And what I mean with that is this,,,,, I am doing everything that I used to do with Chase at my Credit Union without skipping a beat. And I also know for a fact that my money IS safer!
Once more, after Lehman Brothers came down crashing and burning, the world kept moving forward. The idiot that created the post we are all answering is most likely a scared capitalist or bankster trying their best to fearmonger people.
"Too Big to Fail" banks must be brought down and eliminated so that they all know who truly owns them. We the 99%, not the 1%.
REAd my post above. I totally agree
I know what would happen if the banks collapsed! Politicians would have less money for their campaigns, from the lobbyists and wouldnt have jobs waiting for them when they retire from "(de)regulating" them!
The banks are doing a good enough job of collapsing in own right without any help from OWS. What keeps the TBTF zombies propped up at the moment is an inexhaustible supply of free money. Once Berneke runs out of ink, or the European banking system goes into meltdown, then yes the zombies will implode and off course it will be the 99% that suffer the consequences most intensely..
ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............................
We understand why you are frighted. Change is unnerving. This must be very difficult for you. You and the others who are posting negative comments on this forum are feeling threatened and uncertain. We understand. These are anxious times.
Try to consider this from the perspective of those on "the other side" -- THERE IS NO "other side": there is one country, under God.
We have tried to show how, by being cooperative, by sharing food, water and space, we can all get through this. Indeed, this is the only way we will, since if the stores go down, all bets are off. There will be incidents. People will be stressed and make bad decisions. Some will become ill. Some will just be assholes.
We understand the risks, but "we and all others who believe in freedom as deeply as we do, would rather die on our feet than live on our knees." Franklin D. Roosevelt.
951 cities would not have joined if this movement were not real...
Join us.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/steps-to-success/
The banks have simply gotten too big and too powerful. They need to be broken up and the orginal new deal regulations need to be restored. They have shown that they cannot be trusted; even now they are looking for ways to get around the new laws that have been put in place. They are parasites, the taxpayer's bail them out and they spit in our face. It's interesting that while we somehow have no money for the needs of the people we seem to have plenty to bail out these money grubbing behemoth's.
I do find it very interesting that so much of this crisis is being chalked up to the size of the banks. There's a very interesting IMF Working Paper by Ratnovski and Huang on the relative resilience of the Canadian banking industry during the recession and in Canada the 6 largest banks account for 88.5% of total bank assets and in the U.S. the 6 largest banks account for 50.8% of total bank assets. This research paper and another one for NBER by Barth, Caprio, & Levine did not find empirical evidence that bank size contributes to instability or the ability of a bank to weather a financial crisis. However, the IMF working paper found mildly significant positive correlation between bank resilience and capital ratios and balance sheet liquidity but the strongest positive correlation with bank resilience stemmed from funding structure. Banks that obtain their funding through retail deposits as opposed to wholesale funding (which can freeze up at even the slightest rumor) were the most resilient. I do understand how you could see a correlation between size and incidence of bailouts but I'd have to look into it to see if there has been any empirical research done on this.
Also, it is important to note that the bailouts (which do seem unfair to any consumer straddled with debt) did mitigate the severity of the economic downturn. Now, you could argue that in the absence of the bailouts the economic downturn would have been more severe but there may have been a more expedient redistribution of capital that would have curtailed the length of the recession. However, I'm more inclined to believe that the length of the recession had more to do with the disentanglement of the excessive debt load. Also, loan forgiveness for consumers would create moral hazard, a serious implication. I think it was probably best to stick with the moral hazard you know (already existing) than to create new moral hazard. I do understand how you could see this as unfair though.
Oh yes, now we know where you are really coming from. The IMF? The same group of criminals that have singlehandedly implemented Milton Friedman's " free trade" theory of economics. Look around the world for Christ sake. This is WHY people are all flipping out. Privatization of EVERYTHING to the detriment of everyone exept for the top 1% . I am sorry, but I now consider your arguments nothing but brainwashed dangerous garbage. Anyone reading this please watch Naomi Klein's discussion of free trade, trickle down economics on Youtube. You can also read" Shock Doctrine" which addresses all of acuity's arguments. Ignore this person
America will be unlivable in the next 20 years or so. It's already NOT worth purchasing a house in the US, thanks to the corrupt banks and corrupt politicians. I keep hearing about how Americans are purchasing houses and land in other countries where the land and house is totally theirs not like in the US. They are also retiring and living like kings with their Social Security checks in another country. Gives me ideas of other countries to live peacefully and without any financial worries like so many retirees have here in the US.
I'm not sure why you would bring free trade or privatization into this. I was merely pointing out the fact that there is empirical evidence, (and you may hate the IMF which is fine, I can definitely hear where you are coming from on that one, although that doesn't invalidate this research) that points out that funding structure plays a more significant role in banking resilience than the size of banks.
I feel that I was very reasonable in my comment and I do not feel that the dismissive and disrespectful nature of your reply was necessary. Also, I don't think it is wise to ignore empirical studies, however if you can find empirical research papers that contradict this one or even find flaws in the regression analysis of this paper I would definitely have to revise my opinions on the matter. I will look into Ms. Klein's work and hopefully it proves as enlightening as you suggest.
I am not trying to be disrespectful of you, just your views. You can cite all the empirical studies you like. All one needs to look at are countries where this economic theory was forced on people( south american countries like Chile, Ecuador to name a few, South Africa, now Brittain with it's "austerity" programs) and you can see the evidence laid bare before you. I hope you read the book as it is based completely on historical evidence and plenty of citation. This madness is coming to an end, and I am glad to be a part of it.
The Canadian government has some very strict banking laws on the books. Regulations governing mortgages, for instance, prevented the housing collapse that occurred here. It is not the size of bank's per Se, but the wild west strain of capitalism brought about by deregulating those banks. Most disturbing is of course the outrageous compensation, even after being bailed out. Banking executives in Canada do not see this kind of compensation. More importantly though, is the unrelenting greed. There is no sense of country or patriotism, no desire to invest in the future. The banks and wall street once fed the country through massive investments in infrastructure, transportation, new technologies and education. Now they feed off the country with their insatiable need for more and more money. I believe in Canada, although they have a poor environmental record, they still have a pride of place, a love of country, a belief in the people. It no longer exists here.
DEAR INDIVIDUAL READING THIS, What must we as people do to fight this grave injustice inflicted upon us, by the ones who lust for power? How can we end the reign of the wicked and immoral and mete JUSTICE upon the oppressors as we have suffered from their hands-their blood stained hands... An idea of REVOLUTION-no, the act of revolution enacted by the proletarians! Must we as individuals ,as is always done, remain pawns to these people, these monoliths that we alone as individuals cannot surmounted...I surmise that we are not ignorant to the woes inflicted upon us by their enormities? We must UNIFY! Unity will be the way in which we assert ourselves!...While I realize all are not are not without income or funds and many cannot unify with this growing movement do to reasons of possible opposition and they being the people I'm question who we oppose (Wall Street), and many have responsibility they must tend to that take precedence. We must rise and vanquish this behemothto restore the equilibrium, for when disturbed it causes much chaos and strife in the hearts of man( man being neutral to represent all genders) in his mind and when mans mind and soul are in chaos as many are they rise to vanquish the pestiferous wealthy. However we should not just target these individuals, each of us individually must confront the corruption in our hearts, how can we judge the corrupt and deem them so when we cannot be amenable for ourselves we will surely be deemed hypocrites as we will be.....I am not meaning to say that this protest is in any way unjust, for far too long have we suffered, I mean that we are expected to expiate our sins -assume our parts in the problems we face and how we may have caused it. Yes, the Bankers on Wall Street are corrupt in ways we don't have evidence of without an investigation. But as we suffer soshall they, for we will make it so. But what of our government I say, my fellow citizens do not neglect to Confront the complicit in this affair for the roots of corruption are deeply seated, we have silent enemies amongst us-be warned that although succession in our goals will happen we may face a greater threat to our rights granted unto us from birth be prudent and circumspect. Another issue I wish to address is the idea of mans continual corruption as all things will be permeated with this darkness Inside our hearts.......when a system is created it always deviates from the righteous path, for nations we have learnt of in our education are littered with tales of nations that became corrupt and faded Into the ruin of collapse, we know that a society without corruption is utterly inconceivable, impossible in ways each and everyone of us know...for as long as men exist so shall our inner evil....but I digress from my original Intent of this passage and I ask forgiveness as we must forgive all in all eventual....the rising potentiality of this movement is quite an astonishment, I thought we were not capable of such things and thus I admit I had less faith in my fellow man. I see that we have all come to the realization of the need to bring the greedy to justice, although the reasons for your protesting may be unique to you, you share many goal, I had prognostications, inklings seems more appropriate of a term, that one day man would wake to realize the greater truth outside of his/her reality, and break the cycles of obsession with superficial base needs and trite motives, a dull and predictable lot we were but we've surpassed that I hope....for if not we will founder and fall Into the patterns we had grown so accustomed to, living such prosaic pedestrian lives stultified by the elite and of our own ignorance we always have the means to educate ourselves in this age, we have no limits to what we may learn based on our status in society, the powerful can no longer succeed in keeping us stupefied we have freewill to reason and learn and form our own ideas, ideas that would otherwise have died by the hands of the bigots! Our endeavours shall be crowned with fruition of our goals for our will allows it, we have broken free from the will of the oppressors.... part...now it is your turn...as Desmond Tutu stated "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." YOURS TRULY- Aaron Thomas Bridge
Yes, it is what some of them want. This whole deal was orchestrated by anarchist groups. What else would you expect? lol
The only ones who don't know are the "useful idiots" who haven't bothered to take the time to look behind the scenes of this "movement."
you are sad. I am not an anarchist but a progressive liberal who believes in true socialism and capitalism. Stop being so silly and pay attention. Look beyond the drumming.
Sounds like you're the one who needs to pay more attention to what you're involved in. Look beyond the window dressing of this "movement."
Thanks, but I am well versed on movements and false flag operations. This is NOT one of them
Apparently not. All anybody has to do is to go look at who and what got all of this started. Not like it's hidden, just not well reported. You had them fooled for a while but people are starting to catch on now to what this is all about. And the anarchists types (as are obvious in this thread) will make it even more apparent. They can't help themselves. lol
Hey wow, I couldn't have said it better. So how about you making the first step and look here?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/maybe-this-will-get-the-support-of-mainstream-medi/
Remember, these threads aren't a representation of who OWS are on the ground. Go visit the occupation and you'll see the true faces of the movement. The internet has its own culture, but it's just a bunch of computers wired together, in the end. A method of communication, nothing more.
Yea, ok. well then you have nothing to worry about since you have it ALL figured out. Lucky YOU arent involved with the rest of us who are suffering from free trade economics and a bought out govt. You should probably go congregate with the "others" who share your special wisdom and "sight"
Maybe you should take the time to look behind the scenes of our economy?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/maybe-this-will-get-the-support-of-mainstream-medi/
How paranoid you are, assimilated into a system that has made you believe you are so important. You don't realize that once you've outlived your usefulness as a work drone, they'll cast you in the streets to rot. There are many in government who say they want to help the middle class, but talk is cheap. Action is what counts.
Not paranoid at all. I work for myself and feed and power myself. I don't have a need for much beyond that.
Your true colors are showing now and more who initially supported you will back away. That's always the failure of radicals on the left -- you have no patience and you believe that everyone will come to your side once they "understand." lol
You work for a system that places money above all other values, a system that is slave to the policies and values dictated by so-called higher powers. You feed yourself with the help of food companies who distribute the food to you. You power yourself with the help of energy and electrical companies who feed electricity into your home. I thought it was pretty obvious that no one does anything themselves anymore. And OWS is endangering that existence because a lot of people see the glaring flaws of not being able to control anything anymore. I can see why you'd be paranoid. The problem is not the existence of companies in and of themselves- I'm the son of a business owner, I have a bit more inside perspective on the matter- the problem is striving for monopoly in a world where power = money. Is it ok to live in a world where your own worth can be packaged, price-tagged and made worthless? I don't think so. Neither does OWS. Remember: this movement is about starting real, important conversations among the people- candid discourse about how the system can be improved, and if it must, how it can be changed. To me, your unwillingness to acknowledge the flaws of the current way of doing things is a refusal to put in the effort to actually improve it. And don't give me shit about "survival of the fittest" unless you're willing to admit that we're just the same as animals.
They think they have all the answers; IOW, they don't know jack shit.
Scary, isn't it, to think of a world without money? I know, you aren't used to thinking like that, but rest assured, the anxiety will dissipate with time. You'll understand that money only has as much power as we ascribe to it, and that we are all independent, free and responsible for ourselves. The government and the financial system may be imposing their game on me, but I can choose to stop playing the game any time and walk free. It's more convenient at this time to play the game against them, though, thus my choice to remain. Realize that the only future outcome possible for humanity as we know it at this point is annihilation. We will self-destruct, leaving only scattered remnants of our worldwide dominance while nature recovers from the rampage of its greatest creation and mistake.
People in this movement do not undestand the modern capital markets. I believe this movement will force them to do some critical thinking and they will start to see that the banks are not the enemy.
We know Banks itselfs are not enemies . But we dont like to give our TAX, to some banks that mess it up, and only gamble with the money.
Most banks aren't the enemy. The bailout banks are the problem. The local bank system did just fine during the collapse, because they weren't doing the risky loan/trade back door games.
::Shrugs:: At least my local bank didn't. And I doubt it's the only one...
There is a local bank near me that has worked very hard to keep people in their homes rather than foreclose, and they are now gaining market share as a result. They are proud of what they've done, and they deserve to be.
My daughter just joined a credit union in her state. Yeah!!
when there's no more food on the shelves we can eat the banksters Start by eating their livers with some fava beans and a nice chianti......
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United We Stand ! Let's Build it Together ! Yes we are Us . . .
Victory?
Glass steagall
1) I've been growing my own food and have my own supply 2) I'm prepared for this scenario as well, I'll leave it at that.
Do you see the writing on the wall?
You folks are absolutely crazy if you think that the simpler solution would have been to start handing people money. Try studying what happened after the Deepwater Horizon Incident. Then study what really happened during the housing bubble on a micro level and at the governmental level, not just the banks. All three were at fault. The (some banks) bank bailout, however unpalatable, was the best solution. Provide a real alternative & it would have been considered. Fraud & abuse would have been more rampant had they tried to reimburse individuals - again, ref. DH, among many other examples including Social Security. This is in the news this week: http://philadelphiacriminallawnews.com/2011/10/three-charged-w-philadelphia-kidnapping-and-abuse.html. I could go on & on. It was much easier for the government to monitor & require repayment from those banks than it was to deal with millions of individuals.
The depositors assets are insured through FDIC. The Fed will cover banks' money market funds. The bank's operation can go on, however, shareholders must take the loss.
Of course this will never happen. The US of A's government will pretend to think the banks are solvent and change the reporting rules.
The Fed will pretend that inflation is contained.
I see a reset as the best thing that can happen now.
I agree with the OP. I'm hoping the nihilism on some threads is just anger and hyperbole. We need a working system, and we have a magnificent one in place - it's just been co-opted beyond all reason.
Gee, seems to me this happened once before - oh yeah, wasn't it in the Thirties? Don't seem to recall "blood spilled all over the streets" though. Didn't the weak banks fail and the sound ones survive? And didn't that let everyone know that the surviving banks were on solid footing, unlike now, when we keep waiting for the next shoe to fall because no one knows who owns what lousy mortgage papers?
Probably one or a couple nuts mentioned closing the banks and someone writes and entire post about it...You don't really need to, you know. 99% of the 99% know that closing the banks is a non-starter. The 1% of the 99% that doesn't understand this will probably respond to this with some ridiculous hateful crap just because I pointed the obvious out...lol.
I don't want the banks to collapse i want them to be nationalized. (oh no, here come the anti-government comments.)
Not all banks will collapse. Even when the major ones do, nothing will happen. They will go bankrupt, be taken over and recapitalized. Business will go on. That scare tactic is what caused the bailouts. Fortunately, Europe seems to be unwilling to do the same bailouts we did. In spite of Timmy lecturing them. They almost told him to take a hike.
that is exactly where it is going anyway the collapse is going to happen. food is control dont you get it. prepare to be evacuated to the walmart fema camps
Where did you get the notion we want shut down the banks?
Don't you understand we need as much of corporations that we are protesting right now to be intact in order for the protests to do good?
If your business model is based on a concept that says "if we have to return to our customers what is rightfully theirs then we will go out of business" Then guess what It's time to go out of business. So don't come on here telling people they don't have the right to go get their own money from a bunch of thieves.
We do NOT want to collapse the banks. We want the banks to be run as responsible businesses, for the benefit of the community and ALL their shareholders. The banks' CEOs and top execs are gambling with shareholders and depositors money, in a heads-I-win, tails-you-lose game - that is NOT responsible capitalism. And it is not only the banks - does anyone honestly believe that the banks have a monopoly on greedy, stupid management?? It is rife across Corporate America. For all the people out there that claim that this is an assault on capitalism, please explain to me how it is good for you as a shareholder to have out-of-control executives playing fast and loose with YOUR money?? When they screw up, the millions of a golden parachute that they are given is YOUR money. And when their actions cause the company to be fined, the fine is paid for with YOUR money, not theirs. If they want to gamble, great - but I'll be damned if I am going to pay for it.
Are you saying banks should be to immuned from failing? Why are Republicans deliberately stalling the implementation of new bank regulations? Why are Republicans fighting the creation of the new Consumer Protection Agency?
Don't let them collapse, nationalize them. If a bank is run so well that it fails, fire the managers and take it over, reorganize it, then sell it off. Give the proceeds to us, the taxpayers. Too big to fail is too big to exist!
The monetary system of capitalism is antiquated and obsolete. We need a new system. Our government is broken and antiquated as well. These systems have been in place to oppress and exploit humanity and our planet. A major overhaul is needed. If you want a real civilized system look elsewhere. We are not even civilized. We don't even rate on the planetary scale. Stop thinking in the band aid fixes they want or will accept as a demand. This isn't about band aid fixes. This is about fixing everything that is wrong. I don't just care about what went wrong. There are no simple fixes for any of our problems. Government, food, water, education, medicine, the gross negligence of pharmaceutical corporations, environmental issues- the insanity of ethonal, trying to tax everyone for producing CO2, these are all part of the monetary system and government in place. The energy commission staring at the requests of research into new energy resources. THE SYSTEM IS ANTIQUATED AND BROKEN. A NEW SYSTEM HAS TO BE PUT INTO PLACE. IT IS POSSIBLE, PEOPLE WILL WORK TO LIVE. THIS WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE EASY. CHANGE IS HARD. But results can last for centuries for everyone.
You people are so uneducated and have no clue what it takes to make a country work. Go home, take a shower and start looking for a job that can help you pay your bills. Rich people help the economy by spending money to build jobs. Get a clue and stop looking for hand outs.
Well, we know the rich have gotten richer. Where are the jobs?
Do you realize that most of these people have jobs? Sometimes multiple jobs, 3 or 4 or 5, and they still can't make ends meet? Some of these people have been looking for jobs for over a year or more. The simple fact of the matter is, the real job creators, small businesses, are being shot in the foot while large corporations which are full on employees already aren't investing any money in America any more. Tax havens, outsourcing, large corporations using huge amounts of money to lobby and influence politicians directly... see what we're getting at here?
Our system is designed to collapse.
Fiat currency: our interest rates will become so high that we will not be able to keep up.
Peak Oil: if we publicly acknowledge reaching this point, then the price of gas begins skyrocketing. This will cause a chain reaction on all infrastructure that relies on oil. (including most of our food supply)
Ecological destruction: our economy is based on cyclical consumption/ infinite growth and has already destroyed many ecosystems. Clear-cutting forests, strip mining mountains, fracking, unsafe offshore oil rigs, unsustainable use of freshwater sources, global warming, etc.
Too big to not fail: Globalization. With so many U.S. corporations reliant on other countries for cheap labor, our country must do whatever it takes to 'encourage' beneficial economic relations in foreign regions. (100s of military bases around the globe)
Derivative bubble: 100s of trillions of dollars worth of fraudulent trading can't last forever.
There are more, but you get the point
ATTENTION people who think that this will not happen. Just watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6yooedJPME
If people act like that over cheap Chinese crap on black friday, imagine how they will act when there is no food or water
Can anyone here answer my question? http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/
This is the annual list of the 400 "Wealthiest People in America"-the LITERAL 1%. Can someone tell me WHY there are no "wall street bankers" in the top 10? OR the top 20? Just exactly how many Bankers and CEO's are on the list at all?
Why is it that the OWS movement chose to focus like a laser on Wall Street? What and who was it about the actual richest people in America did they NOT want you to be looking at?
Any idiot can read the list and realize that Wall Street is NOT where the money is in this country. So WHY do "they" want you focused on Wall Street at all?
Maybe read up on the American financial system a bit, and the 2008 recession, and get back to us on that.
Have you read up on it?
Have you examined the laws and legislation that was enacted since the 1970's that mysteriously neglected to regulate that industry in the manner that was repeatedly suggested that could have prevented it?
Have you read up on the fact that "Freddie Mac" is just a shortened nickname for The Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation-a government sponsored organization? (And guess who Fannie Mae is???)
Have you read up on the people whose personal wealth GREW by leaps and bounds during the recession? What percentage of those people were bankers?
You read up on those things and get back to me.
Looks like you're more on our side than you pretend to be.
If you were on my side you'd be protesting at the capital building in WASHINGTON D.C.
The problem is the power is no longer there. Your Congress is bought. Powerful corporations and financial systems have all but highjacked Washington, D.C.. This is why the protests are around Wall Street. They may not have been documented as most rich, but they certainly hold all the power in this country.
Oh I totally agree. But let me share an analogy that another poster presented to me. (Seems to be a theme today)
He likened Wall Street to pimps, and the government to johns. In his mind, getting rid of the pimps was the solution.
I pointed out to him that even without the existence of pimps, there would still be johns and hookers because there always has been and always will be, people who want to screw other people and people available to be screwed. BUT if there were no johns at all-there would be no hookers or pimps. Of course there might still be, but they'd be very bored and very poor.
SO-as long as you have johns, you will always by default have hookers and pimps. That you want to blame the pimps for causing this whole mess works great for you because you can take the moral high ground and say you didn't create them. Admitting that it's really the Johns fault makes you guilty of being oblivious at the very least. Reality is probably more like turning a blind eye to the fact that our reps like to visit the whorehouse. At worse, some of us were actually happy that the pimps approached them because we got something we wanted out of their relationship too.
The fault is both on Wall Street for their arrogant control of the politicians and the politicians themselves who collude with them, at our expense. This hasn't been about the pimps or the johns, when it comes down to it: it's about us, our frustration to a system that has failed us, and real, honest analysis on how this problem can be solved. In fact, I'd be more willing to say that the protester has got it wrong. The politicians had the power, and they've willingly given it to Wall Street and destructive, bloated corporations (not all corporations are such). Wall Street has simply taken this lever and pushed it to the max, because Washington said "Do what you want, I'm tired of running the joint for the people". Attack Wall Street, and the true enemy reveals itself, as the politicians rise to defend their benefactors.
Just because you have lived in this kind of world for so long that you can't imagine living in any other world, doesn't mean humanity will collapse if we take out the greedy banks. A long time ago, people didn't imagine they could live in the land on the other side of the mountains, but they traveled there and they found they could. Humans will adapt.
You really need to see the good people are capable of my friend.
No, they don't understand. This movement is full of armchair economists who don't know anything about economics.
Yes. This is what we want. Out with the old..in with the new.
I assume you are referring to the failure of KreditAnstalt, the bank in Austria that failed in 1931 and to the failure of US Bank (in Brooklyn,-- no relation to the US Government), that set off a "chain reaction and compounded Great Depression I.
It would be informative if people read John Hussman on the issue of bank failures. First: there is more than enough equity and bondholder capital to recapitalize any and all of the large US Banks (Cit, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Chase etc.) The FDIC has been successfully handling large bank failures for 70+ years. The process is not complicated: the equity holders (stock holders) are wiped out. The bond holders take a partial, not total default, and are issued equity (stock). This is a called a "debt-for-equity swap.". The the depositors are held safe, even the bank's counter parties are made whole, The subtext of the fear that is in the air is that, so far, bond holders have not been made to suffer any impairment of their capital. It is not just nor in the spirit of capitalism that bond holders should not suffer losses. The so called "socialists" in Europe understand this and have ripped a page from the American playbook: the German Finance Minister Wolfgang Scheuble has announced that the holders of Greek bonds will have to take an appreciable loss.
Yeah, it's called the free market. They collapsed themselves, idiot, and we propped them up.
Collapse of the USD is happening any way. Look around people. You think all the other OWS events are because they are sympathetic to our cause here? No they are sick of USD oppressing the whole world. China recently openly admitted it was stock piling gold to crush the USD. Putin just proclaimed the USD as one of the biggest evils in the world at a major speech in Europe. 6-7 of the other major North American countries have banded together to ween the USD. Many countries nationalizing and buying gold in house for 3-4xs spot. USD backs all these places not our fabled gold. The USD is about to crash, band aids will make it worse now.
People don't need banking institutions to have an economy. Banks should be nationalized and private banks should be allowed to fall.
Nobody advocates collapsing the banks. If they banks choose to collapse, or use the fear of collapse to keep like you brainwashed, in order to avoid responsibility, that is not within our control. We only want to reinstate the rules that were in place up until 1999 in the form of Glass-Steagall, overturn corporate personhood, and get money out of politics. If you equate that with collapsing the banks, you obviously are pro-corruption.
We really need a new grass roots party.We need change in Washington.The two parties we presently have are corrupt and no matter which party is in power,nothing good comes of it. We need to bring the numbers to the election booths in November.Get rid of the present system as well as we can and start anew,.
You misunderstand the movement which calls for placement protests for change. We are petitioning our government with a list of grievances which is our right under the 1st Amendment:
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Who said the goal is to "collapse the banks"? Of course we need banks. I think a logical and efficient solution is to nationalize the banks, that is if you want to do what is best for the people. ANd NOT hand them back over to private internets of course. Profits from these banks could then be paid out to the people.
I am supportive of the movement at large. These forums are instructive but quite unorganized. Could all participants start to cluster under a given platform with an agreed agenda and start from there?
then we need to figure out how to live without any currency - problem will be solved and banks no longer needed. Midleman (banks) convinced us they are necessarily to keep system going. We need change system and redesign society to work efficiently without this element in chain.
Thank you for addressing this issue succinctly. People seem to have no idea what such a collapse would entail.
Yes. If the banks collapsed, banks that operate in good faith and fair dealing without the benefit of bailouts and moral hazard will replace them.
Do not collapse the banks. However, do not let them have free rein to rape and pillage either.
Rubbish. We survived before banking, and we will survive after. Plenty of nations have had events like this and remained fed. Somewhere in your government are a select few prudent agencies that understand the need to store food in case of disaster. The banks fail, the troops feed you. Worst case, you start getting aid delivered from friendly nations like mine.
They need to fail.
What? Before banking? Do you not understand you are talking about thousands of years ago? Banks of some sort have existed since at least 2000 BC. i am sure you have a meaningful contribution to make to the discussion, but this certainly is not that.
"And how will we feed ourselves and who will take care of us?"
asked one slave off the other
when freedom was at hand
That will not happen. Some banks collapsing doesnt mean liquidity will dry up. Banks will go under, others will take them over, the government lends to the new management and business goes on. We could have done that in 2008.
The core issue that we need to promote lending, and the major banks are not doing that. If people are moving their money to Credit Unions, I don't see the problem. Major banks will simply become not-for-profit, which I think is a good idea.
You also have to admit that the leverage system only works if the economy keeps getting bigger and bigger - but the earth has only so much resources. I'd say that the age of leveraging is over . . . unless we colonize Mars, I guess.
So what do you propose @OccupyTheCapitol ?
Here s what might help. http://www.bleedingindebt.com/
if big irresponsible banks failed, all banks would have more incentive to act responsibly. we would get a more conservative banking industry. not all banks would fail either, there are plenty that did act responsibility.
Blood is spilled all over the streets every single day in Nigeria, in Ghana, in Sudan, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Yemen, in South Africa, in Columbia, in Los Angeles - primarily due to your precious system of capitalism and the commodification of all life on this planet. More human beings are starving to death now than at any time in recorded history - 35,000 children every single day. It would be better to see this thing go NOW than to wait until 5 billion MORE people are starving to death.
Regardless, what are you saying? We should just allow the thieves to do whatever they want to us and keep propping up their zombie dead financial firms? Forever? Because we're scared to grow our own food? Fuck that.
You are kidding yourself if you think after an economic collapse that everyone would be peaceful and rally around a community and there would be a collective utopia where everyone helps each other out and grows food and takes care of one another.
It would be chaos to the level that you have never seen before. People would not hesitate to slit your throat for a can of food to feed themselves or their children. This isn't the 1920s. Our population can't handle being self-reliant.
want to make a bet? I am a liberal yet I know how to start fire, grow vegetables and raise animals. I also have survival books and store months of food. I am planning on getting a license for firearms. We are more similar than different. Get a hold of yourself
What about being reliant on their communities? There are hundreds of communities around the country already participating in the Transition movement. Why do you believe the only people we can rely on are megalith corporations and bribed politicians? You think people won't create communities? I'm not saying that you're totally wrong - I'm sure people who are trapped in cities would have huge problems if this system goes down - because they are living in a completely unsustainable manner. But there is plenty of territory in this country for people to live off the land without going insane over cans of food. I think the elite convince us that we can't live without them, and it's a lie. I also wonder if you realize that one day this system IS GOING TO COLLAPSE. We need to bring it down now with intention, rather than waiting for it to fall on top of all of us and create the absolute nightmare you're describing.
you seriously live in lala land
You don't think this society is eventually going to collapse? You believe in exponential growth forever?
you want society to collapse, for people to lose their life savings, for massive social unrest and innocent people dying, just so you can see your ideology come to fruition. now that's even more selfish than the banker that's bitching about his small bonus.
Again, do you believe this society will NOT collapse? Do you understand that the economic system of this nation has already essentially collapsed? It survives on life support from the government. It is unsustainable. My argument is that BECAUSE it is doomed to collapse, it is a far better choice to intentionally back away from it - to begin now to create alternative ways to live, alternative communities that ARE able to sustain themselves without the state. I have no desire for people to die or suffer. What I suggest is that IF we do not scale down this system NOW - we are DOOMED to cause mass death and suffering on a far greater scale.
If you have some reason to believe that your system is not broken and that it can grow exponentially forever (which IS required in the current system or it collapses), I'd love to hear it.
As I said, your government propped up the financial system, which was going to collapse. Ever heard of "too big to fail?" I said the system is GOING to collapse one day - probably in the relatively near future - when your government cannot continue propping it up. I have seen no evidence to indicate this is an incorrect assumption, and you have not provided any here. What will your economy be based on in the future that will allow it to continue to function? How will you deal with ecosystems on the verge of catastrophe? Water wars - already breaking out in Africa and South America? Did you see the drought in Texas this year? Where do you realistically (not in some snarky way cause you're pissed at me - but REALISTICALLY) see this society going?
System has collapsed? Last I check 91% of people still have a job and close to 70% own a home.
Maybe your viewpoint is a little bit too narrow. Because the economy is global you should take the global number into account.
And now even great America and Europe say that their debts are too high and they should be lowered. But the system says you can't lower the global debt because you need future money to pay present interest rates. So we need higher debts if the system shall not collapse.
How long do you think, by an exponential rise, it would take in our times, where you can't outsorce your debt's anymore, will it take for even America to go down? And NO, war is NOT an option to restart the growing process from the beginning.
And if you don't believe what I say get informed about debitism.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/maybe-this-will-get-the-support-of-mainstream-medi/
Wait, why are you scared to grow your own food?
I'm not - I'm referencing the OP claiming that people can't grow their own food. I call bullshit. I say people can learn to grow their own food pretty goddamn quick, on liberated collective land to boot. The charge here is that we should keep propping up banks because if we don't - if we allow them to disintegrate into the nothing GARBAGE they are - we'll all riot, kill each other, and starve to death. And I call bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Human beings became what we are, and we can become something else. I'm sick of this fucking system, and I don't CARE if it collapses.
Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I do think some areas will be better off (like rural farming territory), although there are some places where I'm fairly certain people would starve and succumb to violence (inner city will be the first to become a death camp, I suspect, with high numbers of poor and unskilled, and people who have no idea how to grow or hunt, except other people). I think that one is highly circumstantial. I do think most people would agree we don't want anyone starving in this. :> I also think it's ridiculous to say, "Let's keep this faulty entity afloat, because it provides some comfort for us." I think the answer is somewhere in between totally ransacking the system (including the good parts), collapsing our own infrastructure, and the opposite of total complacent resignation and allowing a faulty and increasingly corrupt system to continue.
I wholeheartedly believe that what we absolutely must do NOW is intentionally downsize everything about modern life. If we can't - if the ruling elite insist on maintaining a system that is economically, ecologically, and socially unsustainable in every way - we WILL see total collapse relatively soon (if not in our lifetime, in our children's) - and in that situation - in an involuntary collapse, we would see suffering on a scale probably never imagined. We could use our remaining fossil fuel resources to shift to a different way of life, collectively choose to reduce population in the regions that are unsustainably populated, start dismantling the state. Of course, I am nowhere near foolish or idealistic enough to believe this is likely to happen. The ruling elite are sociopathic enough to insist on continuing on this doomed course. I'm honestly not sure what we can do about it...
I agree that an involuntary collapse would likely be far more devastating than a voluntary one (key word is voluntary). I do not agree that the ruling class in total is sociopathic, though some may be in even the clinical sense. All walks of life, all causes, all races, all nations, have their portion of evil. Additionally, I don't think being rich guarantees that you're also a leader, or someone who by nature takes control and guides the course of events (a real leader helps the people he leads, is a servant in the truest sense, while a dictator or power broker simply controls them; the outcome may even be the same in some circumstances, but those are two very different types of people. We haven't had many leaders lately).
One thing I think a lot of people don't see is that some of the worst atrocities, and many, many minor grievances, have been committed with good intentions. Bearing that in mind is why I keep looking for veracity in this movement.