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Forum Post: Do the American people want a Fuhrer? Notes on the Leadership Cult

Posted 11 years ago on Sept. 10, 2012, 11:39 a.m. EST by ogoj11 (263)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Sometimes I think the real political divide is not between left and right, but between those who worship the leader (dems and repubs) and Occupy (leaderless).

Just scan the newspapers and the commentaries and observe the competition for the title "Strong Leader." The media seems to unquestioningly accept that 'strong' leadership is good. Note especially that even liberals accept this malarkey, going back to the days of Captain Kirk.

I hope no one needs reminding of how leader (German: Fuhrer) cults are invariably connected to racism and sexism. Also, people need to be reminded that Hitler's movement had a left wing branch during its gestation.

Notice how both conventions were, if you ignore the political content (I wonder if you can) formally the same. A crowd whipped into hysterical emotional raptures by the Man in a Suit, a few buzzwords designed to push buttons not stimulate thought.

I'm starting this thread inviting comments and observations on leadership.

This topic, more than the 99% vs. the 1%, could be what defines Occupy.



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[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23789) 11 years ago

A leader should lead for the absolute benefit of the people he/she is leading. If not, he/she is no longer a leader, but a tyrant.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (4203) 11 years ago

I would say public servants are meant to serve not lead that is why it's named that - I think that has become clouded

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23789) 11 years ago

Very good point. I would agree.

[-] 1 points by niphtrique (323) from Sneek, FR 11 years ago

The situation is worse than in 1932, but few people see it. The crisis will be about survival:


It is easy to goad the gullible public into more wars. There are parallels between the US now and Germany before World War II.

[-] 1 points by ogoj11 (263) 11 years ago

The US is a danger to the world, IMO. Militarism across the political spectrum and without a history like Japan and Germany to make us fear our military. The Chinese rulers are too unpopular to get aggressive. The European ruling class is too remote and disorganized, politics too local. When you factor in declining American economic power, it seems logical to predict that the US will use its military edge while it can. It will be up to us to stop them and save the world.

[-] -1 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 11 years ago

It will be up to us to stop them and save the world.

Are you saying it's up to the people on this forum to save the world? My God! We are in a whole lot of trouble.

But, seriously, Americans always find an excuse to put on the hero suit and say that it's up to them to save the world. Honestly, if America uses its military to wreak havoc around the world, the saviors will not be American.

[-] 1 points by ogoj11 (263) 11 years ago

Yeah, I was too melodramatic above.

Recently, I was in western Venezuela (Lara) where people fear the nearby American build up just across the border in Columbia. Add it up, huge oil reserves, a ruler demonized in the US media, 1 US sponsored coup attempt already, plenty of excuses (drugs, FARC) for US adventurism. The level of US anti-war resistance is a huge factor because the local right in Venezuela is too isolated, too weak, too white.

[-] -1 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 11 years ago

There's definitely a fear of American troops in many countries.

[-] 1 points by ogoj11 (263) 11 years ago

I guess what I'm driving at is that even though we're weak (and pathetic, as you point out), we have a responsibility to the world, a responsibility to make the coming war drive too costly, too difficult, too destructive of social peace at home.

How can we accomplish this? Stop honoring the military, the boys and their toys. Start now to discredit American leaders and their legitimacy, their election, for instance, which is nothing but a beauty contest for old men in suits instead of swimwear.

[-] -1 points by CarlAndrews (-113) 11 years ago

Take out the percentage of taxes the government uses for the military next time you pay your taxes. Leave a note saying you refuse to pay for the military. When you go to trial for tax evasion, make sure OWS backs you up. Create protests. Make noise. Go to jail. Write a book in jail. When you come out, you'll be a hero like Mandela!

Or, you can protest and try to stop the US military machine while paying for it each year.

[-] 1 points by ogoj11 (263) 11 years ago

And Amy Goodman will interview me! "Talk about your tax return."

[-] -2 points by Orwellwuzright (-84) from Lockeford, CA 11 years ago

Stop honoring the military? So if we see a soldier in uniform we should spit on him? Is that what you want?

[-] 1 points by ogoj11 (263) 11 years ago

Well, I'm not much for spitting, and TB is making a comeback, but if that's your style... I think our contempt should be mostly directed at the officers.

[-] 0 points by Orwellwuzright (-84) from Lockeford, CA 11 years ago

You are filth. Take your hate somewhere else.

[-] 1 points by Lucky1 (-125) from Wray, CO 11 years ago

Yes, that is just what too many Americans want. Remember when Obama was first elected that teacher in California teaching her class a song in his praise. And that documentary Jesus Camp with the Christian fundamentalists praising a cardboard cutout of George Bush.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 11 years ago

Leaders are someone weak people look to, to solve their problems,. it is abdication, nothing more. As long as the people seek 'leaders' they will be ruled, not free and not moving forward.

A self-organizing network of free communities of engaged free people, voluntarily working together for the common good, not just of human people, but for all life is the only future,. anything less will fail and fade. We have one chance to get it right, one change in an infinitude of opportunity. It all hinges on what we truly believe and how we choose to act based on that belief.

If you are willing to settle for more rule by a 'great' leader, you are retarding the one chance to advance all life.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

no one is a strong leader currently

those are only claims

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

NOPE - but this country may well see a furor greater then it has ever seen before. If the government does not pull it's head out of it's ass and get to work on the behalf of the people the environment - society - country - world. If the government continues on its insane course - there will be furor like never before as this society comes crashing down.

[-] 1 points by yobstreet (-575) 11 years ago

I'm not sure I understand the question.

1) We will never achieve the homogeneity necessary to move the country forward; people of great difference will continue to exasperate the conflict and grow the divide.

2) Congressional leadership serves the party; it does not represent their constituents.

3) Presidents are groomed for office, created as tools of the money mongers - they do not to serve their country but only those financial interests that create them.

The answer is:


(Hopefully one of a benevolent nature but at this point I think it wise to take whatever we can get).

Don't you agree?

[-] 2 points by ogoj11 (263) 11 years ago

Bravely spoken. I guess I was pointing to a psychological divide. We might acknowledge, as you do, that a powerful leader is helpful, a practical support for our goals, but that's not the same as being enthralled by the authoritarian personality. If, that is, you believe there is such a thing. Is there?

[-] 2 points by yobstreet (-575) 11 years ago

Well, there have been rare times in history, in some isolated communities, largely homogeneous, where a beloved burgerneister ruled in a benevolent fashion, but it's rather unusual.

America needs one of those.

[-] 1 points by ogoj11 (263) 11 years ago

I'm headed over to the gym with my Ipod. Lately one of my favorite songs has been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xna68Iyf9A . Maybe the song has got me thinking about this stuff. You know how you listen to certain songs over and over and keep hearing something new? This one is like that.

[-] 1 points by yobstreet (-575) 11 years ago

I hear ya... and I agree, she's a banger, definitely. But I'm gonna tell ya something, something you will likely never ever believe - Americans have been very self consciously examining themselves for almost 400 years now... we take it to extremes, and honestly, I like us just the way we are. I like real people... what y'all need is a little self confidence:


You got a choice - this is it - be brave dick:


And just in case you haven't heard this is directly from the German/ Canadians (Sasha AKA the brave dick otherwise known as "Dick Brave"):


[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 11 years ago

Humans are animals. Bipedal, opposible thumbed, lingual, animals with all the desires and emotions of animals.

Primal Outrage: Can Homo Sapiens Use Our Inherent "Inequity Aversion" to Topple the 1 Percent?

Sunday, 09 September 2012 07:25 By Kelpie Wilson, Truthout | Op-Ed


[-] 1 points by Wallgeist (8) from East Orange, NJ 11 years ago

Ideally a dog should qualify to take a public office.

[-] 0 points by podman73 (-652) 11 years ago

No shortage of stupidity in the OP