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Forum Post: Do Americans know Fascism when they see it?

Posted 2 years ago on June 9, 2012, 11:18 a.m. EST by JackHall (401)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

WWII was 70 years ago. Franklin Roosevelt was selected to solve the problems of The Great Depression with the New Deal 80 years ago. The existence of American Fascists during this time period has been overlooked in this discusion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRw-OQYDe2M&list=PLAABD0339940FC76A&feature=view_all

Flip -

"Fascists particularly loathed the social theories of the French Revolution and its slogan: "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity."

*** Liberty from oppressive government intervention in the daily lives of its citizens, from illicit searches and seizures, from enforced religious values, from intimidation and arrest for dissenters; and liberty to cast a vote in a system in which the majority ruled but the minority retained certain inalienable rights.

*** Equality in the sense of civic equality, egalitarianism, the notion that while people differ, they all should stand equal in the eyes of the law.

*** Fraternity in the sense of the brotherhood of mankind. That all women and men, the old and the young, the infirm and the healthy, the rich and the poor, share a spark of humanity that must be cherished on a level above that of the law, and that binds us all together in a manner that continuously re-affirms and celebrates life.

This is what fascism as an ideology was reacting against_and its support came primarily from desperate people anxious and angry over their perception that their social and economic position was sinking and frustrated with the constant risk of chaos, uncertainty and inefficiency implicit in a modern democracy based on these principles. Fascism is the antithesis of democracy. We fought a war against it [over] half a century ago; millions perished as victims of fascism and champions of liberty." ......sound familiar?"

121 Comments

121 Comments


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[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Fascism Anyone ? - Fascism’s principles are wafting in the air today, surreptitiously masquerading as something else, challenging everything we stand for." by Laurence W. Britt :

"The cliché that people and nations learn from history is not only overused, but also overestimated; often we fail to learn from history, or draw the wrong conclusions. Sadly, historical amnesia is the norm."

spero meliora ...

[+] -6 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

This whole posting is based on a lame logical fallacy; a lame conspiracy theory.

[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Consider that while we were not watching, "conspiracy theory" has undergone An Orwellian Redefinition. A “conspiracy theory” no longer means an event possibly explained by a 'conspiracy'. Instead, it now means any explanation, or even a fact - that is out of step with the government’s standard explanations and that of its Main Stream Media pimps, whores and 'Johns' !!!

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 4 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Perfectly stated!

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

For a historical perspective :

"America's Hidden History : 'The Plot To Overthrow FDR"

"The Plot To Overthrow FDR reveals how, inspired by political trends in Germany and Italy, a group conceived of a plan to either overthrow the newly-elected president or force him to take orders from them. They envisioned a paramilitary organization of disgruntled WWI veterans as the force to intimidate the government. The man they chose to inspire and lead this veteran's army was retired Marine General Smedley D. Butler. When Franklin Delano Roosevelt won the Presidency in 1932, many Americans looked to his bold New Deal plans as the way out of the dark days of the Depression. But a powerful group of financiers and industrialists saw his economic policies as a threat."

fiat lux et ipsa scientia potestas est ...

[-] 3 points by Hanssen (36) 2 years ago

Exactly!

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4529) 2 years ago

Good post shadz. Says so much.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Well said Shadz !!

[+] -6 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

There's something sick and pernicious about comparing the US government to the Nazis, not so much because it drastically exaggerates the evil of Obama and friends, but because it does great injustice to the victims of the Nazis by trivializing the unique savagery of those German beasts.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

'Trashy-Worm-Tongue' : Consider that in truth, "There's something sick and pernicious about" YOU !!!

No one has mentioned The Racist and Supremacist Nazis or their evil ideology other than you and you seem to think that your subjective opinion is somehow the paragon of objective reason. Fascism is the subject at hand & you ought to refer to Mussolini's definition IF you are still in The Dark on this matter !!

Obomber is a puppet headpiece of a 'Corporate Imperial American Enterprise' as far as the global drone warfare victims of silent death from the sky are concerned and they are not interested in your querulous, linguistic quibbles. Further your utterly disingenuous attempts at linking to 'The Shoah', reek of specious desperation as you tendentiously scramble for some sort of tenuous point to your own "trivializing" B.S.!

'Worm-Tongue, Scum-Bot', 'bbbbboy' or any other of your ~50 other monikers ; your essential nature remains undiminished as do your tedious, quasi-autistic and 'mala fides' obsessions and fixations ...

et temet nosce.

[+] -5 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

Read this conspiracy theory again (it is well known). The poster doesn't mention the Nazis directly, but refers to WWII and a fascism. If you can't figure what he is referring to, then what can I say? He doesn't talk about Nazis directly to try to avoid a reductio ad hitlerum.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Whatever dude but leave 'Hitlery Clinton' out of it ! She's a paragon of loving compassion - just like you're a paragon of progressive reason !! LOLOL !!!

  • Forum Profile : 'Thrasymaque ' ; "We are all born sophists, and our only cure is Socrates. But, Socrates never faced Socrates, his sophistry was therefore never expunged. Sophists, like my former self and your current self, only appear as sophists because Socrates shines his light on us, but, as this light is being shun so is our sophistry diminished, until, finally, the day we are fully cleansed. I am no longer the Thrasymaque you once knew. I have died, been washed, and am now reborn. I am the Socrates who has faced Socrates. My mission is the betterment of manmind." <great big giggle>

Gnothi Seauton ...

[-] 5 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

You're on a roll shadz ... that was a great comment, or maybe more like a sad but tru(ism) :)

[+] -5 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

Hey, thanks for reprinting my material!

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Your self-referential narcissism is incorrigible !!! Bet that's got you all in a tizz !! Off you go to 'the room below the stairs' in a dark corner of your damaged mind now, for your 'special happy time' & d'you think Socrates ever went to Delphi to commune with The Oracles and what would they have told him ?! ...

Gnothi Seauton ...~~*

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20534) 2 years ago

Hey, you never got back to me with the answers to all those tough questions. And, "treasure" seems to have disappeared. What happened?

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

National treasures would mean our technology and good paying jobs in general. Too many jobs were exported and outsourced off shore at the peril of our economy. Laissez-faire capitalism, privatization and corporate protection permitted this to happen. American labor built the wealth of this country. The computers, many electronic devices and machines that were invented here are manufactured in the cheapest labor markets.This has destroyed our middle class.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20534) 2 years ago

I was talking to Thrasymaque, but okay, got the gist.

[-] -2 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

That posting got shadow banned, so I switched users to confuse the mods a tad. I'll reply to you today, right here.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20534) 2 years ago

Okay.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks you are a narcissist. Time to face realty?

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Germany wasn't the only fascist country during WWII.

[-] -3 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

It wasn't, but when someone talks about fascism during WWII without specifying a country it pretty much implies Nazis, that and the fact that this conspiracy theory is sometimes clearly referred to as the Nazification of America.

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

America has had more than an academic interest in fascism. Many industrialists admired the 'efficiency' of fascism and Nazism in particular. Henry Ford was the poster child for this, but far from the only industrialist.

"July 30 1938

In his Dearborn, Michigan office Henry Ford proudly accepts a Nazi medal on his 75th birthday. The Grand Cross of the Order of the German Eagle is the highest award the Reich can bestow on foreigners. The medal arrives with a note of personal greetings from Adolf Hitler. A rabid anti-semite, Ford paid for copies of the racist hoax Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion to be deposited in major U.S. libraries.

[-] -3 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

America has had more than an academic interest in fascism.

I think you mean certain people in America like Henry Ford. There are Nazi admirer's in Sweden too. It doesn't mean Sweden should be compared to Nazi Germany.

Your case is resting on a tower of logical fallacies.

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[-] 3 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

First of all the post is to have a discussion about the existence of American fascists. Would you like to explain how the US government is different from the Nazis?

Plum Island

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC1gV_6aSIA&list=PL26D49F2B7D61D440&feature=view_all [right click]

[-] 3 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

According to professor Antony Sutton, of Stanford Research institute, Wall Street supported the rise of Hitler:

Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/

Lots of financial data here for the "scientifically" inclined.

Prior to Hitler being foisted upon them, the Germans were known for being scientists, poets and philosophers.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Prof. Sutton portrays the atmosphere prior to WWII as congenial collaboration between industrial interests connected by international banking and shared technology. The stigma Nazis have today came after WWII atrocities.

"German General Electric was a prominent financier of Hitler and the Nazi Party, and A.E.G. also financed Hitler both directly and indirectly through Osram. International General Electric in New York was a major participant in the ownership and direction of both A.E.G. and Osram. Gerard Swope, Owen Young, and A. Baldwin of General Electric in the United States were directors of A.E.G. However, the story does not stop at General Electric and financing of Hitler in 1933."

Sutton describes a close affinity between Roosevelt and Germany, but Roosevelt had distinctly different approach to the responsibility of government and the capacity of private enterprise. Sutton suggests Roosevelt wanted to advance corporate socialism. How does the creation of government owned power generation in competition with private utilities accomplish that?

This is the same time period the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) was created. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed the Tennessee Valley Authority Act (ch. 32, 48 Stat. 58, codified as amended at 16 U.S.C. § 831, et seq.), creating the TVA.

In corporate socialism one would imagine that General Electric would have been given a non-bid contract to build and operate TVA. This did not happen, but Sutton's work discloses financial connections between Wall St., Nazis and Bolsheviks.

Roosevelt won 4 elections against Republican candidates for President. This was possible because the people wanted him to stay in office.

Fascist Coupe vs Franklin Roosevelt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC6U5T01mLs [right click]

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

I disagree with Sutton's thoughts on FDR as well.

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Germany was the pinicle of western civiliazation at that point and in a decade they decended into the depths of barbarism.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

The same can happen in the US, if we allow it to.

[-] 2 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

I think we may almost be there or prehaps that is wishful thinking and we already are.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

I agree that in many ways, we are almost there. Perhaps one difference is that the elite now see their power eroding with the collapse of their financial institutions.

If we don't allow them to take us down with them, there is hope. The way for us to prevent them from taking us down is through Glass Steagall, by which we would declare them bankrupt. Otherwise, they will declare us bankrupt.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

We already are. As soon as the cold war ended I knew this would happen.

[-] -3 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

During the many years that Hitler was rising to power, Wall Street did have financial investments in Germany. This is normal. They wanted to make money. That's their job. They didn't know Hitler was going to gas people at that time.

Germans are still known today as being good scientists, poets, and philosophers. They don't take thinking lightly like Americans do.

[-] 5 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

According to professor Sutton:

Investment in Nazi Germany (along with similar investments in the Soviet Union) was a reflection of higher policies, with much more than immediate profit at stake, even though profits could not be repatriated. To trace these "higher policies" one has to penetrate the financial control of multinational corporations, because those who control the flow of finance ultimately control the day-to-day policies.

[-] -2 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

They were investing BEFORE the Nazis started killing people. This is what you fail to understand. No one could predict what horrible things the Nazis were going to do. Before being elected to power and having Hitler as their big boss, they were just another socialist party. I don't see anything special in people investing their money with German businesses of that time.

Read Peter Kropotkin's post above he pretty much nails it. People invested at a time with Germany was doing good, not when the Nazis were gassing people.

[-] 3 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Sutton suggests that investment in Nazi Germany was a reflection of higher policies, beyond just profit motive.

[-] -2 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

Perhaps, but those higher policies had NOTHING to do with gassing people. What you DON'T understand is that all this was done BEFORE the Nazis were killing people. How hare is it to understand that? You're being fooled by the bad research of conspiracy theorists. You should start reading good material instead of wasting your time reading LaRouche garbage.

And, this has nothing to do with the current government of US. NOTHING. Just like the current government of Germany has nothing to do with Hitler. This was almost 100 years ago.

You need to start worrying about the problems we face today, instead of twisting history to come up with conspiracy theories. You have completely lost touch with reality. Your mind is melted like a piece of cheese forgotten on a radiator.

[-] 3 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Perhaps their plans had nothing to do with gassing people. It would obviously be a waste of my time to tell you what I think their plans did have to do with.

Your suggestions have as much credibility with me as with practically everybody else here, that is negative. If you suggest it, I should do just the opposite.

[-] 1 points by Hanssen (36) 2 years ago

Good Job!

[-] -3 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

Exactly, do the opposite of whatever I suggest and remain a conspiracy theorist dabbling in dubious "realities" for the rest of your life.

[-] 3 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

Ok, that's fair enough, you have your opinion, I have mine, they are quite different. There is no need for either one of us to get nasty about it. Let's just discuss the issues without emotional reactions.

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[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

So we are to equate Nazis, with Fascists and both terms can only refer to Germany? Is that where you are going?

[-] -3 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

When someone talks about Fascism during WWII without specifying a country, yes, I assume he is talking about Germany. In a similar way, if you talk about females with beautiful hard nipples, I'll assume you are talking about human females and not dogs.

In situations which can be confusing, it's the writer's job, not the reader's job, to clarify it in the text.

[-] 2 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

No doubt. Look at government today as a franchise. Money is paid to take over a political party. The political party is like a black box. The party label stays on but leaves no clue about how it works on the inside. You can only guess by the output produced.

If the output doesn't resemble a democratic result from a free society of Americans then what does the output look like?

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

I see no evidence supporting this claim. I mean, simply articulating the state of our society does not imply causation (and an allegation of a conspiracy theory is a claim regarding causation). I think it's perfectly possible that the best intentions can go wrong, and a system can breakdown inadvertently (its built in protections circumvented, power accumulates, special interests align, people become tempted by greed, and it could be more like a conspiracy of circumstances rather than some sort of overt, deliberate conspiracy to usher in fascism). Humans do have a tendency to look for patterns, and when unaided by rigorous statistical analysis, we're often wrong ... but as far as I'm concerned, conjecture regarding causation is less important than rolling up our sleeves and solving our problems (particularly when discerning causation is so elusive).

[+] -4 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

This posting is not about a society breaking down inadvertently, it's about accusing the US government of acting like the Nazis did. It's a known conspiracy theory based on all kinds of lies. For example, arturo goes on and on about how US was investing in Nazi companies back in the day. However, he fails to mention this happened before the Nazis were killing people. He brings this up in an attempt to show that the US government had close ties with Nazis and thus shares there goals and intentions. It's a lame logical fallacy, and even if the government of US back in 1940 shared a love for Nazis (it didn't, this is just an example), it says nothing about the government of today.

This conspiracy theory not only exaggerates the evilness of the American government, but it also downplays the evilness of the Nazis. There's a big difference in a state that is becoming more military and which has questionable authoritarian practices, to one that is consciously planning a Nazification of its powers.

The idea that the government is creating FEMA camps (concentration camps) is part of this Nazification conspiracy theory. Arturo and many others believe the government is about to round us up. He compounds on this by comparing the US government Internet censoring to that of China in another posting. It's absolutely ridiculous. Anyone who has been to China realizes how ludicrous this is. In China you would be arrested for posting the types of anti-government rants we post on this site.

These conspiracy theories are dangerous because they make us lose touch with reality. How can we solve the current problems in the world if we are so delusional that we can't even point to the real problems since we are busy pointing to grandiose conspiracy schemes without providing a shred of evidence?

[-] 4 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

"The idea that the government is creating FEMA camps is part of this Nazification conspiracy theory."

Wrong yet again, Trashy. The government IS building FEMA camps. That's not a fucking conspiracy theory! The purpose is what's the topic of debate.

Let me ask you, how much research have you done as to the purpose of these camps? Ever Googled it and read any sites? How about your exhaustive research behind 9/11, or any other subject you consider a CT? How much objective research have you done on any of these subjects? It's a valid question.

Really, man, you need to stop talking as if you know what it's actually like here in the US because you obviously have no clue. You prove it every time you make blanket statements about us, like everyone who doubts the official version of 9/11 must also be a Jerry Springer fan that just loves his Big Macs.

[-] 3 points by Hanssen (36) 2 years ago

Bravo!

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Thanks.

[-] 3 points by Hanssen (36) 2 years ago

You're most welcome! ;-)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I've thought of a purpose or two for FEMA camps.

Temporary relocation in time of natural disaster.

Worse.

Housing for the growing number of homeless. Your full service aid stations.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

I'm sure they're meant to be multi-purpose, so they're not a bad thing, in and of themselves.

Interesting tidbit: the minimum square footage for inhabitants of these camps is 63 square feet, less than the Federal requirement for housing those incarcerated in prison, which is approximately 72 square feet.

So, if we ever find ourselves in the unfortunate situation of being relocated to one of these camps, be it a natural disaster or martial law, we'll have less room than a prison cell.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

JOY

I thought of another - better purpose - lock up the economic criminals - wouldn't want them mixing in with the normal prison population - no telling what kind of abuse they would do to regular prisoners.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Great one! Finally, a FEMA camp purpose we can all agree on.

However, for them, that square footage is far too generous.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

They can share with the corporate abusers of America and of foreign country's. Environmental criminals and such.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

We may have to build more camps. ;-)

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

3 or 4 to a cell before there would be a problem - don't you think? Lesson in togetherness and consideration of others. I'm sure something could be done overtime - with some sort of government aid garnered from taxing the non-criminal wealthy. We could house them with corrupted politicians and they could practice their lobbying.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

I think we're on to something here, DK. Not really, but we can dream, can't we?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Keep-on Keeping-on.


[-] 2 points by gnomunny (3414) 1 minute ago

Good points, as usual. Keep up the good work, DK. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Aim for the stars - you may only hit the moon but it is a start.

People need to have hopes and dreams.

When these things die in the human spirit we have much of what we see today on the streets of America and around the world - growing chaos.

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6637) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Good points, as usual. Keep up the good work, DK.

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[-] 0 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Right, I agree, that sort of conspiracy theory is not supported by any evidence, but in fairness, the OP doesn't use the term Nazi at all (it just references fascism).

[-] 3 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Fascism is like a forest fire. You can see the fire at a distance. You may not notice airborne embers flying in your direction carried by a strong wind. Guess what? You discover that you now are surrounded by smoke, burning trees, and fleeing animals.

More features of Fascism are

d) Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

e) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

f) Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

At this point the media is also under Fascist control. You can't rely on information from the usual sources.

Wildfires

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkVrc0MSIRw&list=PL7A8250184C89C209&feature=plpp_play_all[right click]

[-] 1 points by Hanssen (36) 2 years ago

(scratch head) for some reason this sounds really familiar. I just can't put my finger on it.

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

I largely agree with you ... I just don't think a conspiracy theory (that spans decades) can be supported by the evidence. It's the sort of thing where we look for patterns, make certain assumptions, etc., but if we don't have evidence, it reduces to conjecture. I'd rather just try and address all the problems you mention (and the overall authoritarian structure of society) without all the speculation (I just don't think it's necessary or productive).

[-] 3 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Rome wasn't built in a day. It took about 500 years to evolve from Republic to Empire. The current generation of Republicans is not going to wait that long. Look a little deeper into the actions of our government from Jimmy Carter to present.

George Carlin - Why you are in debt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PkWf9M3rUw&feature=related

[right click]

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[-] -3 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

It references fascism during WWII. Without more specifications, I think we can infer that it relates to the Nazis. On top of that, this is exactly in line with the Nazification of America conspiracy theories and FEMA camp conspiracy theories we hear so much about as of late.

If I started to talk about a large protest beginning near the middle of 2011 without providing specifications, you could infer that I'm talking about the start of OWS. It's the writer's job in such a case to provide specifications to remove all confusion, it's not the reader's job. If the author is talking about fascism during WWII, but not Nazi fascism, then he must make that crystal clear and tell us what fascist regime he is referring.

Read the OP's post again. Near the end, he say's we fought against this fascism in WWII (most likely meaning the fight against Hitler) then goes on to say... "sound familiar?" What he implies is that what is going on today is comparable to Hitler during WWII. It's absolutely 100% in line with the Nazification conspiracy theory.

[-] 3 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

In the 1930s there was a plot by several industrial interests to overthrow the US government and install a military dictatorship comparable to the ones in Italy and Germany. The plot failed. President Roosevelt did not put the conspirators on trial for treason. He allowed them to keep their property and wealth as long as they did not interfere with his New Deal policies.

Wall St Dark Secret

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BZCfbrXKs4&list=PLAABD0339940FC76A&feature=plpp_play_all [right click]

Profiteers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slmr024JYaA&list=PL0CC9ABB9EB182016&feature=plpp_play_all [right click]

[+] -6 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

I'm not saying real conspiracies don't exist. I'm saying conspiracy theorist are insane and that they don't have proper research methods. People who figure out real conspiracies are investigative journalists or simply lucky because one of the conspirators gave in.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

LOLOLOLOL !!! OhMG & dropped my joint !! Best 'fkn' laugh for ages ! pax et lux ... lol .. x .

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I don't think he realizes that he just called himself insane.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

realization was the point

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (28455) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Ah - self discovery?

Still - kinda arrogant to include everyone else as suffering his personal discovery.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

This is what it must sound like when the devil whispers in your ear. "Psst ! Lacking investigative skills makes you insane." <Insert your own devilish laughter here>

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Are you suggestng Fascist would have supported any of the revolutions: American, French, Russian, or others? How does one prove Fascism is the antithesis of Democracy?

Among the nations of the earth democracy had always been a very small minority until WWII. Today we have the illusion that most of the governments around the world are democratic. This probably comes from the mouths of our own leaders and echoed in the press, and broadcast media.

Democracy is an egalitarian form of government in which all the citizens of a nation together determine public policy, the laws and the actions of their state. Does that really happen? Fear of terror has been used to allow the US Constitution to be eviscerated by statute while our national treasures are privatized, loaded on to ships and planes to be carried away to far places in the name of globalization.

In the 1920s democracy flourished, but the Great Depression brought disenchantment, and most of the countries of Europe, Latin America, and Asia turned to strong-man rule or dictatorships. Fascism and dictatorships flourished in Nazi Germany, Italy, Spain and Portugal, as well as nondemocratic regimes in the Baltics, the Balkans, Brazil, Cuba, China, and Japan, among others. Is this current long recession and slow economic recovery manufactured to recreate disenchantment in the United States giving a cause or an excuse for Fascism to be established here?

Economists since Milton Friedman have strongly criticized the efficiency of democracy. They base this on their premise of the irrational voter. Their argument is that voters are highly uninformed about many political issues, especially relating to economics, and have a strong bias about the few issues on which they are fairly knowledgeable.

Fairly knowledgeable? United States spends more on education than any other country, yet our students rank 25th among a 100 countries that spend a lot less. How have our public education systems been undermined since WWII? School segregation, school desegregation, school integration, profiteering, funding cuts, curriculum changes, charter schools, standardized testing, more funding cuts, teacher shortages, unqualified teachers, unqualified administrators, incompetent school boards, poor parent-teacher relations. Exhibit A – Evolution courses.

Our free press has been captured. The public at large is more likely to receive misinformation, propaganda, disinformation than useful information. Exhibit B – Fox News. With our vast media streams polluted to benefit special interests Milton Friedman’s fears become prophetic.

Democracy has existed for over 2500 years. That Democracy needs efficiency is the logical fallacy. Exhibit C – 2000 Election Fraud and the Voting Machines. The lifeblood of a democracy is the vote. The most sacred ritual in the democratic ceremony is counting the votes. The 2000 Election Fraud debacle in Florida demonstrates that efficiency is not a component of Democracy.

Efficiency is overrated. How much waste and inefficiency is built into everything that capitalism is involved with? Exhibit D is the concept of compounding interest that inflates the cost of almost everything by a factor of 2 or more over everything it touches.

Fascism simplifies the decision process. This does not mean the correct decision is made. The fact is that the more decision makers there are the better the decision will be. This a problem for the 1% that have controlled the decision process so that it benefits them, the 1% rather than at least 51% of everyone.

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Some interesting points, a few with which I agree. There can be little doubt our country has been steered toward fascism since the Great Depression, and now the United States has almost completed the transition to corporatism, which Benito Mussolini envisioned.

On this site: http://www.constitution.org/tyr/mussolini.htm you can read Benito's "Doctrine of Fascism." Literally, every point you make, Benito considered steps toward a successful fascist state including the basic inequality of man. Sort of sounds like a modern Tea Party reading.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Re. your "How does one prove Fascism is the antithesis of Democracy?" - Are you suggesting that Fascism is remotely compatible with 'Democracy' ?!!! Further - re. "Fascism simplifies the decision process" ... WTF ?!! Let me 'simplify' ; are you a Fascist and/or do you self-identify with Fascism ?!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

No. I am not a Fascist. When students on my campus were complaining about the war and the Fascist influence behind it I thought they were high on drugs. I've learned more about Fascism since. The government might decide to build a factory on an abandoned farm for different reasons. One reason could be because the land is cheapest. Another reason could be the area needs jobs. The county is the poorest. What would the Fascist do? Believe it or not, a Democrat was instrumental in repealing Glass Steagall in 1999.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Cool and you don't "believe" that I imagine that there is any real or substantive difference between The Wholly MIC/Corporate Owned, faux-choice of 'Democrap or Republicunt' do you ?!!!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

The people can make the difference. Republicans have been backing big business and the rich for over a century. Democrats have been backing the working class people not quite as long. Without FDR most of us would not be here. The working class people have to tell the Democrats what to do.

The New Deal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRw-OQYDe2M&feature=related [right click]

Most important issues http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJankwuvf9M&feature=relmfu [right click]

Consensus occupy@wallstreet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsGXLd5dm1s [right click]

Occupy Fox News http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJgWdfZqDj0&feature=related [right click]

Bernie Sanders Occupy@Wallstreet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVXEYoo46ZY&feature=endscreen&NR=1 [right click]

[-] 2 points by LeoYo (5854) 2 years ago

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -Goethe

http://occupywallst.org/forum/none-are-more-hopelessly-enslaved-than-those-who-f/

When you say "The fact is that the more decision makers there are the better the decision will be." what circumstances are you applying that to?

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Consensus allows all members of the group to participate in decision-making. The idea that every voice should be heard is not a new one. A new way of governing through continuing feedback from the “informed” public should provide better government.

The New Deal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRw-OQYDe2M&feature=related [right click]

Most important issues http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJankwuvf9M&feature=relmfu [right click]

Consensus occupy@wallstreet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsGXLd5dm1s [right click]

Occupy Fox News http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJgWdfZqDj0&feature=related [right click]

Bernie Sanders Occupy@Wallstreet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVXEYoo46ZY&feature=endscreen&NR=1 [right click]

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5854) 2 years ago

So, you either see or know of a study that supports a consensus of soldiers producing better decisions on the battlefield as opposed to a rigid chain of command. Correct?

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Consensus on the battlefield might lead to better outcomes including not starting a war in the first place. The soldiers would probably like to know why the war was or was not started.

There is a study on battlefield decision-making. Military officers and soldiers in combat are faced with complex, time-critical decision problems. The battlefield, or combat, environment involves decisive operations under unpredictable and rapidly changing conditions. Decisions in battlefields take place under uncertain, time constrained conditions and in a tactical environment. A battlefield decision maker encounters a dynamic information environment. During combat, individuals gather and consider information from a variety of sources to determine what information is reliable and useful, and what information is not. There is a clear correlation between the decision making process and the value of information feeding that process. This guides the decision about when and where to engage.

The quality of information that led to the War in Iraq was questionable from the start. The veterans against the war have organized.

Profiteers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slmr024JYaA&list=PL0CC9ABB9EB182016&feature=plpp_play_all [right click]

Iraq War Debate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1eYkHEfdw&list=PL37174363310DE0D0&feature=plpp_play_all [right click]

The chain of command goes all the way back to the White House. Bad decision making at the beginning has bankrupt the country.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5854) 2 years ago

So then, from the lack of any cite for a study on battlefield concensus and your use of the word 'might' in your reply, I can only conclude that currently, you don't know of anything that supports a consensus of soldiers producing better decisions on the battlefield as opposed to a rigid chain of command.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Let’s understand that consensus permits dissent. Under circumstances in the military service if the dissent is overwhelmingly against the commander, it will lead to mutiny. There are studies of mutinies. Most mutinies must end in failure, but not all.

http://www.executedtoday.com/2009/01/27/1781-new-jersey-pennsylvania-line-mutiny/ [right click]

Should the commander change his mind and join the dissent? Would the details of such an event be published knowing the value of secrecy and maintenance of the military’s public image? ...The military is a top-down hierarchy that will stifle creativity and free thinking by design...You cannot have a cohesive military command structure if everyone is following their own idea of what a standard operating procedure should be. Will this chafe the cones of some highly talented people who if left to their own devices would do some awesome things? Of course it does, tough shite. At some point the highly talented maverick becomes a drag on the over all effectiveness. So, true leadership requires the independent exercise of thought, not the mindless, middling bureaucratic attitude that's far more common in the military and corporate worlds.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/01/can-military-tolerate-dissent [right click]

There have been countless cases throughout human history where commissioned military officers and enlisted personnel—as individuals or small groups—have chosen to question and disobey the orders of their superior officers or the supreme leader of the state.

http://tvnewslies.org/html/military_dissent.html [right click]

Do you know of any studies supporting a position on this? I think there are some. For instance take Custer's Last Stand. If there were any dissenters under his command at the Battle of the Little Bighorn, they were probably right, but being thousands of miles away from civilization that would be of little comfort.

On June 25, Custer stumbled on one of the largest Indian camps the Plains had ever seen--around 7,000 strong, made up of Sioux, Cheyenne, and Arapaho bands. Brimming with confidence and afraid the Indians would escape, he split his troops into three columns to encircle them. Custer led roughly 200 men toward the camp, counting on his two other columns to encircle the Indian warriors. Instead, he found himself surrounded by well-armed Indians atop what is today called Custer Hill. Most historians agree the battle was quick--no longer than two hours. Custer was found two days later, stripped naked and shot in the left temple and chest. Every one of his 210 men was killed.

The other columns probably reached a consensus. What do you think?

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5854) 2 years ago

So then, when you say "The fact is that the more decision makers there are the better the decision will be." it's not something simply known to be a fact but rather something that is true for certain conditions.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

The military is not the best place for better or best solutions. For one thing dissent is discouraged. The military is a top-down hierarchy that will stifle creativity and free thinking by design. I don't think you are going to find many to agree that the fewer decision makers there are the better the decision will be.

President Bush as The Decider http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irMeHmlxE9s [right click]

A military organization is not a democracy. Democracy is where a citizen gets an equal vote to contribute to decision making. In a democracy, the will of the people serves as the basis for collective decisions. It's also called self-governance. Each member of the population expresses his or her opinion on each issue through voting. Since all votes are equal, the opinion held by the most members is considered the will of the majority. That's what becomes law.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW2jSLuHlz4&feature=related

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5854) 2 years ago

The military is just one example. A grade school classroom is another. A family of at least three 5-17 aged children is also another. Better decisions being the product of more decision makers is not a fact. It is a truth contingent upon the situation.

[-] 2 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

If a grade school classroom or a family of at least 3 5-17 aged were democracies the more decision makers would make better decisions assumes a population of rational voters.

myth of the rational voter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKANfuq_92U [right click]

The larger the sample size the better the statistic. The more data points the closer the fit to the curve.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5854) 2 years ago

Then the situation that the truth of more decision makers make better decisions is contingent upon is the situation in which the decision makers are recognized as being rational thinkers.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Well, in theory, but fraud exists. Americans do not handle fraud very well.

vote fraud

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrBLxAt63Ks&list=PLD585BEBBD16F3394&feature=view_all [right click]

American Soldiers are Waking Up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWUQ_N_vHc0&feature=related [right click]

[-] -3 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

Are you suggestng Fascist would have supported any of the revolutions: American, French, Russian, or others? How does one prove Fascism is the antithesis of Democracy?

Where did you get these ideas? I simply said your posting is based on a lame conspiracy theory.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Well, I didn't know which lame conspiracy theory you meant.

[-] 4 points by Renneye (3732) 2 years ago

You could not have hit the nail more squarely on the head.

History has repeated itself over and over again. So, uneqivocally and emphatically.....NO, the vast portion of the general population does not recognize fascism when they see it.

What is happening now, globally, has eerie similarities to uprisings and tyrannical governments of the past, which aren't being recognized, mainly because most people don't know their history.

This is a great thread with a topic that should be prominent in this forum. Fascism should be THE topic of discussion here every day.

[-] 2 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

It is the month of June 2012. I spoke to a retired New Yorker who firmly believes that Iraq and Afghanistan Wars are perfectly justified as retaliation for terrorist attacks on 9/11. After over 10 years he still believes this myth. There was nothing I could do because he was mesmerized by a big screen TV showing FoxNews blaming Democrats for our economy in the restaurant we were in.

ManyAmericans thought the United States was bullet proof. Protected by the largest arsenals of nuclear, conventional, biological, chemical and psychological weapons America had all the resources it could use to live in peace forever.

We were vulnerable to attacks from the inside. We capitulated without seeing evidence, without thoroughly understanding the facts,without questions being answered.

How ridiculous it is that the leader of the free world would have the tallest buildings in its biggest city toppled by hijacked airplanes by terrorists with box cutters and all of the top echelon of national leadership fail to undertand that the controlled demolition and the jet collisions are separate coordinated events requiring many hours of planning and access to secured areas closed to al Qaeda.

I was surprised the RNC held their 2004 convention in New York City. They beat the Democrats again with the help of New York City. By 2008 the country was desparate enough to elect Barack Obama. His critics say his administrations behaves like the third term for Bush and Cheney. But Americans are still desparate: 99%, Truth.org, and veterans are up to their necks in failed government sludge.

Profiteers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slmr024JYaA&list=PL0CC9ABB9EB182016&feature=plpp_play_all [right click]

[-] 1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 2 years ago

"frustrated with the constant risk of chaos, uncertainty and inefficiency implicit in a modern democracy based on these principles."

Democracy is messy and that is fine with me because I'd rather endure and deal with the mess than try to solve the mess by giving up my freedoms and rights.

Many of the posts here seem to reflect an underlying ideology of a society that has no chaos, no uncertainty, no inefficiency. A mentality that WANTS a government that "intervenes in the daily lives of it's citizens" to the extent that none of those messy things occur any more.

The problem with the word FASCISM is that there really is no commonly known, widely accepted definition of that word. Even as early as 1944, George Orwell said:

"...the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else ... Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathisers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come."

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 2 years ago

wow, and the increase in both government related jobs and government payrolls has to be a concern.

http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/7190-private-jobs-down-46-million-from-january-2008-federal-jobs-up-114

Of course everyone is worried about the rise of PMIC, Prison Military Industrial Complex. Privatization seems to lead to lack of accountability. Government Contractors often are so focused on getting the money from the government...that they don't pay taxes, lobby heavily, commit control accounting fraud, fraud, lower wages for the industry, higher people of lower education or lower skills or lower training, cut training that prevents injury, cut training that ensures civil rights, cuts safety measures, cuts corners in general, etc.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Privatization was allowed to close factories in the United States and move them out of the country.There has been a leak of jobs out of the United States for several decades. The swamp has been drained.

The government contracting and PMIC is a Republcan invention. What the country needs is a massive reindustrialization. Clearing the underbrush in forested areas around the country to prevent monster wildfires could put millions of people to work this year. Make the Federal Reserve pay their salaries, lodging and transportation.

Wildfires

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkVrc0MSIRw&list=PL7A8250184C89C209&feature=view_all [right click]

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 2 years ago

Your right about the underbrush being a problem that causes the fires. But watch if the Federal Govt acts they will give the contract to UNICOR or Federal Prision Industries - so someone else gets rich.

We can reindustrialize and there are many opportunities in high tech or new tech. Germany has gotten into Solar Panels since Fukushima and though they might have made some few people rich... The country might now be positioned for the future as a provider of solar technology.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

nothing looks sharper than a good cut

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 2 years ago

A Real US Economic BOOM.

Yes. What looks good is not always simple. We don't want Austerity since the economy will slow down if money stops flowing.

But if JOBS can shift away from military, prisions, toll roads, privatization, government subsidies, Tax Abatements, we might really have a US Economic BOOM.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4529) 2 years ago

Hi Jack, Thank you for post. Best Regards

[-] 1 points by macphisto (13) 2 years ago

Europe is Fucked... We have a bunch of criminal technocrats leading the EU. Another 100 billion euro's thrown down the drain to "save" spanish Banks. The situation here is fucking out of control. They have to be stopped.

[-] 1 points by markpaddles (143) from Denver, CO 2 years ago

Seasoned political philosophers have resisted calling what the US has become as fascism. It's a new form of totalitarianism, for sure. For ex: Professor Sheldon Wolin has labeled it as "Inverted-totalitarianism" when he wrote his brilliant analysis, "Democracy Incorporated: Managed Democracy and the Specter of Inverted Totalitarianism."

And trying to call the US system as fascism is not appropriate, nor helpful. While there are similarities between that of fascism and the US political system, there are too many differences to lazily slap the old label of fascism on it.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 2 years ago

Funny, the French "Revolution" winded up in a fascist dictatorship. Sounds like you are spreading fallacies.

Good link though. Adam Curtis is a great documentarian and blogger.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Fascism has a definition: fas·cism [fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA noun 1. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

"This is what fascism as an ideology was reacting against" Fascisim is an idealogy and it doesn't react to anything. It typically gets it start as an oligopoly. It did so in the run up to WW-II. It mature into a closle alliance between the defense contractors and the military and justifies the transition to full fascism when the military gets embroiled in wars of choice. Sometimes an oligarchy seizes ultimate power. Sometimes it is a general. The most likely scenario for that in the US is the GOP and the 1%. The military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Fascism is growing in Europe.

In Greece the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party went from .002% of the to 6% of the vote in the last 2 years.

Fascism is very similar to socialism which makes it very attractive to the folks making noise in the streets in Greece.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

The Golden Dawn party won't win any election with 6% of the vote. They probably aren't real Greeks. They may be Syrians masquerading as Greeks.

Golden Dawn, a far-right, anti-immigrant party whose symbol resembles a Nazi swastika, won 7% of the vote in an inconclusive May election and entered parliament for the first time, pledging to stand up for Greeks suffering in the crisis.

In an atmosphere bristling with the discordant feelings of anger and fear, the assault on Rena Dourou and Liana Kanelli, deputies with the radical Syriza and KKE communist parties, has added an explosive element to an election campaign that is already electric and has also illuminated the dark role of Golden Dawn.

Kasidiaris, the party's 31-year-old spokesman, first turned on Dourou, hurling a glass of water into her face, for daring to suggest that Golden Dawn "would take the country back 500 years" if they were elected.

He then turned his fists on Kanelli when the communist MP stood up in protest. Within minutes of the talk show's presenter, Giorgos Papadakis, intervening to break up the brawl, the MP had fled.

Across Greece's deeply divisive political landscape there was agreement that the extraordinary incident, replayed on TV channels throughout the day, had unmasked Golden Dawn for what it really is: a group of intolerant extremists who resort to violence to make their point.

Greek Golden Dawn assaults MP shocks Greece

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/07/golden-dawn-tv-assault-greece?intcmp=239 [right click]

Greek Golden Dawn Party

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/09/golden-dawn-ilias-kasidiaris-facebook [right click]

Right now there are more Muslims in Europe than Fascists. Don't worry, now. Worry later.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

All I am saying is that when people are in despair they look for an easy answer. Hitler and Mussolini rose out of the bad economies in Europe in the 1930s. They made a promise, held out a candle saying "we won't repay our war debt, we will put an end to the austerity measures of the current people in power. That is how the National Socialist Workers (NAZI) Party came into power.

In Russia it was the promise of communism that was held up as the carrot. In turn Stalin killed more people than Hitler if they stood in the way of the dream.

It is in times of stress, a bad economy that people look for someone to offer a plan to provide for them. Just as is in times of war that people are willing to give up freedom and liberty in exchange for security i.e. the Patriot Act.

[-] 1 points by macphisto (13) 2 years ago

American System is Fascist... the Eu leaders are Fascist... The global Economy is Fascist

[-] 1 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Does that prove Fascism doesn't work (for everyone)?

[-] 1 points by macphisto (13) 2 years ago

most likely it proves that Fascism is capable of making very rich people alot more richer... middle class people poor, and poor people food for worms.

[-] 0 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

Fascism and capitalism are opposites. Fascism is a totalitarian form of government just like socialism or communism. Together they killed over 200 million people. 150 million is from socialism and communism. Capitalism has killed 0. In fascism, the government basically takes over your business, hires you run it, and then sells you just enough to survive. America, despite the fact that true capitalism is not being practiced, is far from it. It's like seeing racism in the Trayvon Martin case (Zimmerman is three quarters Hispanic and a quarter Black, not at all White). In capitalism, your capital is your capital. What you earn is what you get to keep. In fascism, socialism, or communism, what you sweat and tire for is property of the state. Doesn't that seem even little unfair to you? America was founded on the principle that what you earn is yours. And I hope people like you won't take away our sacred right to private property.

[-] 2 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

Roosevelt thought the state was better positioned to manage a modern industrial economy than a small group of self-centered private interests and laissez faire capitalists. This was before the capitalists began to spend billions of dollars on lobbyists.

The New Deal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRw-OQYDe2M&feature=related [right click]

FDR New Deal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76nq7w-i3IA [right click]

By dollars paid, the U.S. Social Security program is the largest government program in the world and the single greatest expenditure in the federal budget.

Capitalists want to privatize Social Security. So far Democrats have stood between Capitalism’s fat greasy fingers and the Social Security fund.

Paul Ryan’s Hidden Agendas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8T_m3ERkH8&feature=related [right click]

[-] 0 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

Reductio ad Hitlerum

[-] -1 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

I see the Occupy movement as nascent fascist. Put brown shirts on these guys and viola you're back in the 1930's.

[-] 2 points by JackHall (401) 2 years ago

In the 1930s there was a plot by several industrial interests to overthrow the US government and install a military dictatorship comparable to the ones in Italy and Germany. The plot failed. President Roosevelt did not put the conspirators on trial for treason. He allowed them to keep their property and wealth as long as they did not interfere with his New Deal policies.

Wall St Dark Secret

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BZCfbrXKs4&list=PLAABD0339940FC76A&feature=plpp_play_all [right click]

Profiteers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slmr024JYaA&list=PL0CC9ABB9EB182016&feature=plpp_play_all [right click]