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Forum Post: DJIA: Reagan +238%, Clinton +325%, Bush -22%, Obama +154% (3years)

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 27, 2012, 8:09 a.m. EST by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Here’s the dates, numbers used, 01/23/1981 (940), 1/20/1989 (2235), 01/23/1993 (3257), 01/19/2001 (10587), 01/23/2009 (8281), 01/26/2012 (12735), no coment just wanted to introduce some facts.

84 Comments

84 Comments


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[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Existential Blues

context is missing

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Sometimes truth is best said simply.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

It's not American Pie, but it's good, reminds me of Tom Lehrer.

http://www.last.fm/listen/artist/Tom%2BLehrer/similarartists

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Do you guys think I should update this as the year goes on?

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

Yes

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you I was thinking no one cared, seems the trolls have nothing to say.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Often times a troll will not speak in the hopes that an issue will just fade away. It is when an issue shows to be picking-up interest and comments that they will decide to attack. Attacking makes them visible.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

True, it's interesting to see who feels that it is needed to attack simple data and math.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That is why they are trying the silent vote down tactic now. It is less revealing of the character that they are playing at. The action is obvious in collapsed threads. Some get collapsed for good reason - Because the are from a shit spewer, others because they have interesting content. But if the post and the comments remain alive then they get more actively involved.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Exactly if they are unable to get people to ignore the truth, then they attempt to discredit the truth. For instance here we have data anyone can get from Yahoo, and some 4th grade math and they say I’m using "statistical manipulation" to deceive. They so fear any truth at all.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Belittling - put downs - discrediting attempts. All things that the corrupt will do or try to do to protect their status. Real hard facts are pure poison to them. So they would prefer it if they might just be overlooked. But they can't help but try to do something when good information is brought out into the light of day to be looked at - most especially on a forum promoting movement against corruption.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You are getting at what I am really hoping for here. I actually believe in the power of truth, so all I want to do is remind people of some simple stuff, so they don’t lose their way when people who stand to lose a lot of power, if truth is know, through up billboards to distract them, and to get them to pull off into tourist traps and become slaves to commerce, thus keeping them out of the free natural beauty that surrounds us.

This sounds like a metaphor, but it is not, I grew up in Gatlinburg.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This is the most important thing we can do "HERE" while also providing opportunities for direct action to take part in from right "HERE".

Shine the light on truth. Truth in actions and truth in values.

We move forward in education and the promotion of awareness.

Shine the light.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

so true, the actions and pictures of the actions shared here are so important to everything

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thoughts and beliefs for a better world. Information and technology available now. Issues and concerns. We reach out - we find unity.

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

They won't argue against facts, but they will make a million contraception threads to try to bury this.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

And whose web do they weave? Stick around; this is not my first rodeo.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Now that we're above 13,000 should I redo this?

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

You do love statistical manipulation, and also love to leave out the effects of recessions......nice propaganda

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Went over some of your lies below, don't have time for all of them.

[-] -1 points by Dell (-168) 2 years ago

how are those energy prices, wheat prices, coffee prices, etc?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thanks for reminding me there’s good money to made in commodities too.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Good morning, please show me did I get the wrong numbers did I do my math wrong, or did I just forget to include your excusses, the man with a thousand excusses is here.

[-] 0 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

nah...you leave out the effects of recessions, and the parties in, and changes in congressional control.......

you leave out the market factors which effect stock trades, and capital gains rates which also effect trading numbers

for example, under Clinton, during the first two years, when democrats held control of the congress the Dow was only up 6% from 3754 to 4003

then from 1995-2007 during republican control of congress it was up over 300% from 4003 to 12556

following Democrat assumption of congressional control in 2007 until 2011 it went from 12556 to 11787 a loss of 10%

then after the Republicans took over the House it rose to today's number of 12992 a 10% gain....

I know these numbers are hard for you to accept and you'll come up with some spin to deny them, but as you like to say "facts are facts"

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

the Dow was 3257 on 01/23/1993 when Clinton took office you say 3754 that's a near 15% error, you are lieing about your numbers too people should know you lie about everything it seems making the two year gain near 20%

[-] -1 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

ah, you are correct, that number was for December of that year...it seems the nyse link skipped January of 1993 for some reason

link: http://www.nyse.tv/dow-jones-industrial-average-history-djia.htm

It was 3310 at the close, on Jan 20, 1993....the day Clinton took office...... 3838 at the close, on Jan 03, 1995....when the Republicans took control of congress.... a 16% rise...to correct my original figures....

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=^DJI&a=00&b=20&c=1993&d=00&e=20&f=2001&g=m&z=66&y=66

it rose the same percentage amount in 9 months after the republicans took over congress as it had in the two years of Clinton/Democrats

and then rose another 20% the following 12 months....

the result is still the same, if not quite as stark in contrast........it still rose higher, more quickly, under Republican leadership in congress than it did under democrat leadership......

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

All I’m saying is that history shows that Democratic Presidents are good for the market, bottom line numbers don’t lie, as much as you would like them to.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You if you were to admit that my math is honest and my numbers correct it might be worth addressing some of your points, but since I know that you start off with lies. What's the point?

Again you lie by calling me a lair, if you admit your lies I would be happy to devastate your points, which would be easy to do in an honest conversation.

[-] -1 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

I am not disputing the numbers or the math...I am disputing the validity of using the numbers as you used them, it's a manipulation of the facts and not demonstrative of the actual rise and fall under the two parties....

[-] 4 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

So you use a Dow number that is wrong by 500 points (to your favor) then acuss me of malipulation for persenting simple 4th grade math using the most honest numbers available, that's pretty much all you guys got left, confuse people.

[-] -2 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

no, I made a simple mistake.......not a manipulation, which is corrected.....

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

And yet your accusation of "manipulation" still stands, in spite of your mistake I did not accuse you of manipulation, just lying which you continue to do in your own twisted way.

[-] -2 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

your's wasn't a "mistake".....it was purposeful mis-direction and manipulation

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You mistake simple math with honest numbers, with malipulation, but you wouldn't know anything about that, being a lair and all.

[-] -1 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

hahaha...what are you? 13?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

If I "manipulate" this good at 13 imagine what's to come?

You can't make up your mind am I a brilliant master manipulator or a simple fool.

It's hell on you guys when faced with truth, isn't it?

[-] -2 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

"master manipulator"???? I never said anything about you being a master at it, it is actually quite puerile and callow......

I can't decide if you're simply lying because the facts don't back up your assertions, or lying because you don't know the facts, or if you're simply stupid, and parroting something you read on Alternet, Thinkprogress, or Mother Jones......

It's probably some combination leaning towards the least effort and calories burned....

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Again you lie by accusing me of being a lair, something you have NEVER proven, yet you seem to lie quite bit, sometimes by "accident".

so slammer = lair

yep I got it

[-] -2 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

I am the den or resting place of a wild animal, or: a secluded or hidden place?

Hmmm?, OK

:-/

and, withholding information, or cherry-picking and manipulating information to appear differently than it actually is, is lying......

So...yep, you are a "LIAR" don't you take spelling in your elementary school?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Man, you really are a master at being a liar, manipulater and an absolute creep. I don't know why FRF even bothers to respond to this BS?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Ok I'll pretend you want to be serious for just a minute, you and I both know that in 1993 a number of great American heroes sacrificed their seats in Congress to vote for an Omnibus Bill that cut growth in spending and raised income taxes on those making over $250,000 per year (it also had a small gas tax increase that everybody paid).

After that for the next 8 years President Clinton vetoed every effort by the Republican party to bust that plan.

Which they failed to do.

The plan which passed without a single Republican vote led to no increase in total Federal Debt for 15 months starting three months into Clinton’s last year.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

While your at it tell me why the Iraq war lasted longer than WWII.

[-] -1 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

actually the Iraq war only lasted about 10 months from the invasion to the capture of Saddam Hussein, the occupation lasted much longer.....but the "war" was relatively over in a very short time.....I'm not sure if you understand history but we still have occupying forces in Germany, in and and on the Islands around Japan today...so perhaps your assessment is a little flawed, as usual...

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

That remains me back then the military didn't mind a banner saying "Mission Accomplished" while troops were fighting; now we can't have a parade?

I think some officers think they know better than the American people, that's always dangerous with a standing army, we definitely need to cut back there, right?

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

The most democratic standing army is an armed citizenry as in Switzerland.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and we got more guns,,,time to start laying off generals..

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

For a really democratic military force enlisted personnel should have collective bargaining rights.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

yeah by "military" in this case I mean "generals" and some of them do seem to forget their oath from time to time

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

What oath? To protect the Constitution? Ultimately the problem is, that itself is a pretty reactionary document,

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Yeah from other places I know you and I differ on the Constitution, I like it better than what "they" might replace it with, you seem to have more issues with it, best as I can tell,

What I'm saying here is that generals should support the civilian authority or resign. Our generals’ feel like it's OK to shoot their mouths off in disrespectful ways to reporters, and I think the other top brass should not stand for it.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

I definitely support the Bill of Rights, but the fact is, that was added as an afterthought. Were it up to me and I were to draft a new one I'd put the Bill of Right up front, right after the Preamble, I'd also add the due process stuff from the 14th ammendment into a new bill of rights along with specifically deliniated rights for people of color, women, youth, etc.

Then, really the most important thing would be to dispense completely with the commerce clause. The problem with that is that nearly everything else hangs on it as is described in the Federalist, but more on that below. In place of the commerce clause I would insert a human rights clause as the theoretical and ethical basis for the document.

Then I'd get rid of bicameralism. It's really anti-democratic an frankly meant to be. The "founders," those slave holders and Boston bankers, lawyers and insurance men of whom you are so fond, were very open and up front about the anti-democratic and democratic aspects of the constitution and only begrudgingly supported the democratic aspects as a necessary sop to throw to the masses. All this is well documented by these very "founding fathers" in the Federalist, They make about the best possible case for their profoundly anti-democratic views. It's really hard not to buy into it. The most obvious anti-democratic aspects of bicameralism are the lack of proportional representation in the Senate and the long Senate terms, which distances Senators from their constituents. There's more, but I can't go into it here.

Then I'd completely dispense with an independent executive and have the executive chosen out of Congress by Congress, which is technically called a parliamentary system. Among other things it would completely get rid of grid lock.

Were I to reintroduce bicameralism the second house would be based in the work place with special provisions for the representation of the unemployed, retirees, the disabled, youth, etc. Were that the case then I'd have the executive chosen out of a joint session.

These are fun fantasies. To me the most important thing about them is not that they could ever really come to pass but that they help us to see the reality. The Constitution did not come down from Sinai with Moses. It is a human invention of particular human beings with particular class prejudices and particular class interests who constructed it at a particular moment in history to correspond to the interests of their class at that time. It is true that they tended unselfconsciously to see it as a universal document, which is not unusual for revolutionary classes in a revolutionary period and a revolutionary setting. In such circumstances the revolutionary class tends to see itself as representative of all humanity for all time.

But the point is, it is unlikely that the Constitution will last for ever and it is worthwhile thinking about how it might be replaced by something better or at least something that our class in our time believes is better rather than something worse.

I suspect that right now the most likely reason and way the Constitution would be displaced would be because of some Constitutional crisis (on obvious crisis might be increasing civil unrest based on the Court's absolute commitment to the commerce clause, though it's hard to think of what the specifics of such a crisis might be). Then a Constitutional Convention might be called and just as the first Constitutional Convention exceeded its mandate by basically discarding the Articles of Confederation (its mandate had been to revise them) and constructing and entirely new document, a new Constitutional Convention might do exactly the same thing. This, by the way, is why most people I know on the left now would oppose a Constitutional Convention now. The mood of the nation is really so conservative, especially on social issues, that a new Constitution today would undoubtedly end up being even less democratic than the one we have today, but that might not always be the case.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Hey man in princalple we mostly agree so I just don't want to go point by point is that OK?,

you will see my post over there, mostly I just don't trust what would have to be done to accomplish large changes.

Now there is one thing I suggest, the Bill of Rights was more of a pre requirement than after thought, it was agreed to up front.

[-] 0 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

The Bill of Rights was most definitely NOT "agreed to up front." If that had been the case it would have been part of the body of the document rather than formulated as a series of amendments.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

There would have been no ratification without an agreement to pass the "Bill of Rights".

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Tell that to the people who died last year. How many died in Germany?

You guys are always trying to confuse.

[-] 0 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

there were more military casualties under the Clinton administration with no wars than have been killed in Iraq or Afghanistan combined, each year.....feel free to check the DOD

more troops die in accidents than in battle, EVERY year....

here are the numbers from 1980 on:

1980 2,392

1981 2,380

1982 2,319

1983 2,465

1984 1,999

1985 2,252

1986 1,984

1987 1,983

1988 1,819

1989 1,636

1990 1,507

1991 1,787

1992 1,293

1993 1,213

1994 1,075

1995 1,040

1996 974

1997 817

1998 827

1999 796

2000 758

2001 891

2002 999

2003 1,410 534*

2004 1,887 900*

2005 919*

2006 920*

  • Figures are Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom fatalities only
[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Ok so all this of irrelevant crap is supposed to convince everyone that being stationed in Iraq last year was pretty much like being stationed in Germany.

Have you check this with any actual service people?

Are there any out there who would like to weigh in?

“slammer” says doing duty in Iraq is the same as doing duty in Germany, I don’t think it is, but I was not either place in 2010 I might be wrong.

[-] -1 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

no, that is your spin, I never compared the actual duty, only the level of casualties.......

While it may be that there are more concentrated casualties in the conflict area's, the overall level of military casualties are NOT that much higher because of the operations than in "peacetime" levels of the past...

You really like to tell lies and manipulate the truth, don't you?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Here's where you compare Iraq with being in Germany, people can judge for themselves.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (1491) 2 days ago While your at it tell me why the Iraq war lasted longer than WWII.

↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink [-] 0 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (46) 1 day ago actually the Iraq war only lasted about 10 months from the invasion to the capture of Saddam Hussein, the occupation lasted much longer.....but the "war" was relatively over in a very short time.....I'm not sure if you understand history but we still have occupying forces in Germany, in and and on the Islands around Japan today...so perhaps your assessment is a little flawed, as usual...

↥like ↧dislike reply permalink

[-] -2 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

I think I figured it out....

You might not be lying, you might simply be stupid...well, at the very least your reading comprehension skills are a bit lacking....

If you read that comment, you claimed the Iraq war lasted longer than WW2 because we were still in Iraq, and I commented that we were also still in Germany and the Pacific, and since I forgot...Korea

I did not make a comparison of the type of service that was required in the different assignments, only the length of time of occupation.....

I am sure you haven't served a day and cannot comment with any practical knowledge of life in the military....so I think you should just drop this before you look and sound even more foolish than you already have....

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

BTW all four sent teams for me, the Army and Marines just shook their heads and said we got nothin' tough enough for you, I went with Navy, little know fact the Navy kicks ass.

[-] -1 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

navy kicks ass? they do something with ass, but it ain't kicking it......

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Oh how funny, guess we know what you think of those that serve.

[-] -2 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

no....it's called inter-service rivalry......

Grunts, Squids, Zoomies and Jarheads all bust each others balls....if you'd served you'd know this

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

NO I said we were at war in Iraq and you claimed we were at war in Germany in the same way since we occupied both, which of course is a misleading and pointless statement, something that is your stock and trade, the problem you have with me is I actually understand your crap.

[-] -2 points by slammersworldwillnotbecensored (-184) 2 years ago

the "war" with Iraq ending with regime change and the capture of Saddam.....after that it was/is random incidents with insurgents, and nation building/occupation..... NOT a "war"

we still "occupy" Korea, The Pacific Islands, Germany, and Japan as well.....and there are "incidents" in those countries as well......not very many now, as it's been a number of decades since the mass fighting ended......But, to say the "war" with Iraq lasted longer than WW2 is false and misleading.....

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Tell that to the people who have been there the past few years, like I said.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

oh yeah your excusses, I forgot those, Republicans got to have their excusses, cuase everything they do goes to crap.

[-] -1 points by onepercentguy (294) 2 years ago

agreed. the numbers are near worthless when they aren't priced to earnings. people who dont understand the market will simply look at the dow reapproching its high and think the markets are overpriced when in reality, they are still historically undervalued by about 10-15% when priced to earnings.

a long way higher to go for obama, really

im up about 6k this morning on the great job numbers teehee

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

When you sell the stock the profits spend just fine, imagine that.

[-] 0 points by onepercentguy (294) 2 years ago

yeah. i plan on buying a prius with my qualcomm profits.

thanks bernanke.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

"It's money that I love..." R. Newman

[-] 1 points by onepercentguy (294) 2 years ago

nah. i dont love money but i dont feel guilty about making so much of it either. or spending it. its nice.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

“Money can’t buy you love,

but it can buy a sixteen year old girl,

and half pound of cocaine,

and big long limousine,

on a hot September night,

now that may not be love...but it’s alright.” R. Newman

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Facts? You brought facts? Well, of course, all we hear are the sounds of crickets.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6883) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Truth is something they have a lot of difficulty with, everything they want to do depends on people not hearing it, so they fill the space repeating things that never happen like tax cuts balancing budgets, but they just say it over and over till people give up or get confused, I like to keep it simple.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Excellent job, too.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep trolls are fact-challenged. It is pure poison to them.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Yes, they are and it makes this a fantastic thread. :D

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Much agreement.

;)

Right now their most notable presence is in the silent down voting.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Yeah, I'm watching that. :D

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It is actually their most effective tactic. Silence of the comments.

Sly devils.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

It can't be that effective. We have been on to them for months.
Now, we are just playing peek-a-boo. :D

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

LOL - peek-a-boo - your funny - I like that in an intelligent individual.

People are noticing - so - it's like their most polite of nasty ads - for the movements against corruption.

Laughing