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Forum Post: direct democracy through reform

Posted 10 years ago on June 2, 2013, 5:09 p.m. EST by ronimacarroni (1089)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I think we ought to introduce direct democracy to our government. That way we'll know representatives really represent us. Politicians could do internet polls to see and vote exactly on what their constituents want. That way we'll know that the government is our ally and not our enemy. We ought to convince either the green party or democrats to support this initiative. What do you guys think?

29 Comments

29 Comments


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[-] 3 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 10 years ago

I think we need to use a form of direct democracy, but we also need to change the game of politics. Stop voting for parties and voting. As OTP knows, elections are pure bullshit and the whole system is rigged and planned for decades to come.

Picture this: http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-govern-a-modern-nation/

It incorporates the most logical and effective form of direct democracy. I really don't see how direct democracy can work with the current system because it's designed to ignore the people.

[-] 0 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 10 years ago

That doesn't sound like direct democracy. That sounds like China.

[-] 3 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 10 years ago

You don't know shit about what you just read then, or China for that matter. China, please, son, explain.

[-] -1 points by DocTalkALot (-5) 10 years ago

That does sound a lot like China or Singapore. It certainly is not direct-democracy. What you forget is once you put a person in power, he has control of the country and the army. So, even if the people decide he's not doing his job, it can be difficult to remove him. Your ideas are a recipe for disaster. I suggest you read up on political theory, specifically anarchy and direct democracy.

[-] 3 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 10 years ago

Sorry, you don't get it. Read again, slower without skipping sections. Read the other comments in the thread. Then ask me a question about it. Because you're way way off. Way way way off.

[-] -1 points by DocTalkALot (-5) 10 years ago

Not sure what you mean. Occupy's goal always was to dismantle the government completely and replace it with direct democracy - "general assemblies on each street corner.". Who's talking about direct democracy playing inside the current system? We already have that from time to time, it's called a referendum. It's obvious that if you want to people to really lead their lives and politics you need to take down the representative republic before replacing it with direct democracy. Representatives and direct democracy are antithetical.

[-] 2 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 10 years ago

I disagree about antithetical, as anything can exist in multiple variations. I'll take a hit for this one though, but I personally don't think your version of direct democracy would work in the real world, even if a nation did ascend into anarchy. It appears too complicated and inefficient. At least that's how most people see it. With the mindset of the majority of people whose minds are occupied by the MSM, I don't see the transition happening. Just curious, did you create a new account just to tell me that?

[-] -1 points by DocTalkALot (-5) 10 years ago

Just curious, did you create a new account just to tell me that?

Lol! No. I created it to interact with serious intellectuals here. I just replied to your posting to help you find the right track. A good will gesture.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoex

[-] 2 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 10 years ago

That looks really interesting, thanks for the link. Your comments seem confused and consistently contradictory though. Just a selfless, good-gesture tip.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

It can easily be included or made the sole subject of an affidavit. http://occupywallst.org/forum/free-democracy-amendment/

The problem isn't getting politicians to support it. The problem is getting voters to support it. The politicians will do it if the voters demand it as a condition for voting for them. The politicians won't do it if the voters are just going to vote for them anyway.

[-] 1 points by jacopo (5) 10 years ago

An Italian group of developer, all volunteer have produced an online decisional platform for e-democracy I am the internationalization manager and would like to invite to test the platform. We have the platform in english and we need tester to check if is working fine please visit www.airesis.eu and www.airesis.it

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

I support outlawing greed & religious intolerance -
and many other IMPOSSIBLE goals

I prefer to work for the POSSIBLE
HJR29 is a good start
OWS site: http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com

[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 10 years ago

Its not impossible at all. I already said how it could be done. We elect a representative who'd do internet polls for his decision making. I mentioned the democrat or green party, but I'm leaning more towards the green party.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

there is no "democrat" party
how many greens have been elected to national office?

just because you say it is POSSIBLE does not make it POSSIBLE

I apologize if I sound harsh, but I've been in OWS since 2011 and I have seen thousands of hours wasted on impossible goals by people who refuse to compromise with the POSSIBLE.

[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 10 years ago

well the green party doesn't sound accept campaign contributions from corporations. I think we'll just have to do the impossible and vote in a third party. It is among the more possible of the impossible goals.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 10 years ago

You're on the right track kid. Both parties should be put out of business

Despite Bensdad being here since "2011", he has little idea what Occupy is about

Sometimes when he gets a little 'tipsy' (I suspect), him & his puppets start battologizing... mixing in a little Isalmaphobia to his extremely peculiar blend of supposed Occupy, pro dem, xenophobic, partisan politics...

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

single issue voting is for the simple minded -
pro-gun or anti-choice or anti-corporate

when has a green party president stopped fracking or created a job?
NEVER

when has a constitutional amendment been proposed in congress to end corporate personhood or end money is speech?
OVER 20 TIMES

how many voters have been polled to support that?
2,000,000

how many local resolutions have been passed to support that? 1,000+

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 10 years ago

That amendment that the two Dems proposed was created by Greens, fyi.

https://movetoamend.org/

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1197) 10 years ago

Can you help me understand which goals are impossible? I don't want to waste any time on something that's impossible.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

My impossible goals: outlaw greed & bigotry

IMHO- direct democracy is not a goal - it is a method to get to a goal.

my goals would be to sever crapitalism from democracy, JOBS, tax the rich and corporations, cut the military, cut privatization, etc.

my method is already proposed in congress HJR29
OWS site: http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1197) 10 years ago

I agree with all of your goals. The impossible goals of outlawing greed and bigotry would be taken care of if we committed to Establish Justice for all.

Direct democracy is both a method and a goal. Our current methods of government, (based on bribery), should be replaced with a better, and more fair, system of government. Our current methods of government will not allow proposals in congress to accomplish the things needed. The ultimate goal is democracy, and currently we don't have it.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

proposing to stop bribery has been introduced to congress at least 20 times
see HJR29

direct democracy never has

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1197) 10 years ago

Reforming bribery is an absurd concept. Bribery should be abolished completely. Maybe that explains why proposing to stop bribery 20 times gives us the result that we have now.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

first rule of bribery

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 years ago

Bribery has rules??

I didn't know.

What are the rest of those rules?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 10 years ago

I support Direct Democracy....

and there are many many other supporters here also, see ;

http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=direct+democracy

[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 10 years ago

Alright see that's what I'm talking about. We could all vote and see how and how much of the tax money is being spent through the internet.

[-] -1 points by DocTalkALot (-5) 10 years ago

I wonder if their software is open-source and usable by other countries? It should be easy enough to implement. One would just need to start a political party based on this principle, then members of the Occupy community and others who care about direct democracy could vote them into power.