Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: Did the police intentionally kill Dorner?

Posted 1 year ago on Feb. 14, 2013, 2:26 a.m. EST by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The recent death of alleged killer Christopher Dorner inside a burning cabin has raised questions about whether the former LAPD police officer was intentionally killed with the use of incendiary tear gas canisters. On audio from police scanners, officers can be heard using words like "burners", a slang term used for tear gas,and "We're gonna go forward with the plan with the burner."

Even though under most circumstances the police department does a commendable job, we can't overlook the crimes it's members commit as they too step over the thin blue line into criminal behavior, even when it involves the most heinous of fugitives.

http://www.naturalnews.com/039081_LAPD_arson_Christopher_Dorner.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/video-gun-fight-between-dorner-and-lapd-2013-2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QB7kpfICNQ

62 Comments

62 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by penguento (362) 1 year ago

There's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on here. So, all you folks that think they fucked up -- what would you have done differently? After he went nuts, what would you have done that would have saved the day?

[-] 2 points by NVPHIL (664) 1 year ago

Considering they shot up 2 trucks without even checking to see if he was driving I would say they never planned on even trying to take him in alive.

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Check out video #3. The automatic fire is from the police. All aimed at one person.

[-] 1 points by grapes (2763) 1 year ago

It was the same tactic used on the Davidian compound at Waco as approved by Janet Reno. Same old. Same old legal precedent. Every law enforcement officer wanted to get back as quickly as possible by any and all means to life as usual. I wonder if the tear gas canisters now contain shaved magnesium because it worked so fast. I sure want to have some of the tear gas canister technology to start a camp fire on a rainy camping trip. The Waco incident eventually triggered Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols to bomb and collapse much of the federal building in Oklahoma City. These are just domestic "non-suspect" terrorism, not really intentional as having already been promulgated by the LAPD.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

What would you have had them do?

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

At least attempt to negotiate a peaceful surrender. Have friends and family talk to him until a sense of reality returned to his tortured mind.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

I don't think that sense of reality was coming back. He may have lost his mind but he was also very, very aware of what he was looking at if he surrendered. I doubt that he was going to allow that.

In the mean time, this guy did not just threaten to terrorize officers and their families........he did it. He was not screwing around. He was looking to play suicide by cop.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Here's a video of the couple who last saw Dorner hours before he died. His mental state is described.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fa29RFApAg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

So should we burn out any suspects who return fire on officers for their protection?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

Should you shoot at them to begin with? They are hired to do a job. Not hired to die. If I was a betting woman, I would lay my money on every officer that was out there knew that if Dorner had a shot then he would take it and that the very best that could be hoped for is that they found him before he found them.

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Every officer hired is well aware of the risks involved. They stand on the thin blue line between decency and criminality. Dorner crossed that line, but so did the police who threw the tear gas canisters into the cabin. Burning out suspects should never be an option, no matter how heinous the crime. Once we sink to the same level as criminals, is there difference between us and them?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

You are attempting to make him a martyr. He is not. That man was going to keep on killing until he died. It was premeditated. He knew what he was doing and he knew what the consequences were going to be.

Again. You don't pay these folks enough to sign up to die.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Dorner is not the point of this post. Police brutality is. The question is, did the police step over that line?

When an LAPD officer is shot or killed they respond with a different standard of force that no regular victim of crime would ever receive.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/119173789.html

[-] 1 points by penguento (362) 1 year ago

Well okay, what should they have done? What would you have done if you we're one of the people on the spot at risk of being killed?

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Send all of the hot headed trigger happy cops home and wait him out. Cut all of the utilities to the house. Start dialogue between Dorner and his friends and family. Fatigue and lack of water will have him incapacitated in a few days.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

Really?

They responded to a domestic violence call.

Really?

This is police brutality.

"The suspect was holed up in the residence after allegedly shooting LAPD canine handler Steve Jenkins (pictured, below).

The 22-year veteran of the force was shot about 2:15 a.m. Monday in the 13600 block of Dronfield Avenue in Sylmar while responding to a domestic dispute report, said LAPD Chief Charlie Beck.

The suspect is described as a Hispanic man in his 50s. Police made numerous unsuccessful attempts to make contact with him, Neiman said.

"He fired at officers several time during a 45-minute period," Neiman told the Associated Press. "He obviously couldn't care less about the lives of others."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ says it isn't. And the fact that they broke out the robot indicates that they still thought that he may have been alive.

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

The previous video shows how the police will resort to knocking down a house to get a suspect that has harmed one of their own, but not do the same for an average citizen. We can't have two separate standards for police pursuits. One for the regular people and one for the police. When an officer is shot there's a temporary loss of morality on part of the police who step over the line into criminal behavior. Knocking down someone's house is one step over, burning a house down with a person inside is many steps over. Some would call it murder.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

The previous video shows how the police will resort to knocking down a house to get a suspect that has harmed one of their own, but not do the same for an average citizen. We can't have two separate standards for police pursuits. One for the regular people and one for the police.

But, if they knocked down buildings for people like you and me then it would be dandy. K.....

When an officer is shot there's a temporary loss of morality on part of the police who step over the line into criminal behavior. Knocking down someone's house is one step over, burning a house down with a person inside is many steps over. Some would call it murder.

But, It isn't murder or attempted murder if an officer is shot. I find this interesting. It's a damn good thing that I'm not a cop. I could see that as a very short career.

I can become enraged with the video that I showed you. In fact, there are 150 things that I can become enraged about. Intentionally, willfully and consciously inflict or attempt to inflict harm to an officer and I have zero sympathy. None.

An us versus them mentality is textbook. I understand that most people think that laws apply to everyone else but not to them. I understand that cops don't meet people at their very best. No cop has ever followed me for five miles to congratulate me on my excellent use of turn signals. Ever. As an aside, it's almost a bummer because I am rather anal retentive about that.

Lemme tell you what I don't understand. It is the desire that some folks have to consistently make the cops the enemy in any and all circumstances. Especially when the arguments provided are coming from those minds that are normally engaged in well thought out and thorough discussions.The only way that this would make sense is if those someone's stand to benefit in some way from maintaining that division. I can think of two reasons, right off the bat, that some would benefit.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

"But, if they knocked down buildings for people like you and me then it would be dandy. K....."

No, they shouldn't expend any more resources or extra effort when a policeman is killed or wounded than a regular person.

"But, It isn't murder or attempted murder if an officer is shot."

Of course that's murder also. Dorner is a murderer according to the evidence I've seen. I'm not defending Dorner's actions in the least. The focus of this post is the police's brutal response, intentionally setting a house on fire with a person inside.

"Lemme tell you what I don't understand. It is the desire that some folks have to consistently make the cops the enemy in any and all circumstances."

This post concerns one police action only. I'm pro police, pro Occupy, pro free enterprise, and pro democracy, but when members from either group steps over the line, that support stops concerning those actions and condemnation begins.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

Ok, so now it is an expenditure of resources issue.

You are trying to create an issue where none exists.This is called arm chair quarterbacking. I was scanning the headlines the other day and there was an article (No lie!) that had someone that lived in the vicinity commenting how the police had been searching for him and he was right there the whole time. The implication is that the police weren't doing their jobs. It doesn't matter what they would have done or not done---they are still wrong.

There is no way in hell that I could look at these events, from the moment that Dorner fired the gun, and say that the police were wrong or committed murder or were temporarily given over to some type of criminal conduct or responded in a "brutal way". No way.

The only thing that this has accomplished is that if Dorner had a legitimate complaint then nobody is listening now. That goal is now lost. I think that it is time that people begin to seriously reconsider goals. That said, I have nothing further to add to this conversation. I can see right now that I will be unmovable on this issue.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

The issue of whether it is just to set a house on fire to extract a suspect does exist. To me and many others this crosses the line of morality. Others say any means necessary should be used, including setting a house on fire. In my eyes burning a person alive is the most vicious and cruel death possible and is not the kind of society that should be allowed to exist.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

I realized (with my last post) that my stance wouldn't change and I know that yours won't either. I feel quite strongly about it and I am quite sure you do as well and I can't hold that against you.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

Castle Sieges involved waiting the captured out

[-] -2 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

He certainly is a martyr. A martyr to the idea that people should be treated with respect, fairly and honestly. Yes he had his own demons, but it was the nazified gangstyle LAPD that drove him over the edge.

Those addicted to power, think power is all, they think justice, consideration and fairness are jokes.

[-] 2 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

He is better off dead. I only hope he took a few shots in the earlier gunfight and got to suffer for awhile before he blew his brains out.

[-] 1 points by penguento (362) 1 year ago

Are you shitting me? The dude went on a homicidal rampage. What the fuck are you talking about?

[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

And what drove him to homicide?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

If your goal is to make change then it would be much wiser to focus on that. If you choose to focus on making him a martyr then you will lose support for that and the goal is lost.

The ball is in your court. You need to decide which is more important to you: the goal or the drama.

[-] 1 points by EFishent (1) from Annapolis, MD 1 year ago

Another Black Man that ends his life unfulfilled "wasted talent" because he was angry with society and how he was treated, so to correct his claimed injustice he kills innocent people and writes a "Dear Abby" letter as if America cares about your story. You were a dead man walking after your first act of crime and all your possible valid points thrown out the window because now a seemingly educated, ex military, ex Police turned vigilante car jacker has been put out of his misery by his own hands. What kind of support did you expect, did you think Black America would bare arms and support you or protest in your favor, no! All you did was make it a more stressful atmosphere for young Black Males and old for that matter. You waited four years for this out come, this was your plan, to run and hide to the hills and be cornered like a rat in a trap? You should have used all that talent to organize, again a severe waste of talent, but next and hopefully not ever again some other unstable human will try and perfect your feeble attempt to justify the wrong doing unto them. Nobody beside the innocent victims family will remember you or the purpose of that manifest or should I say suicide letter. Fortunately for society and unfortunately for your family, your a statistic now. "Every rat has more than one hole, unless its on fire" Societal Peace for now because another "Black is History"

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

The post is about state approved police violence. If the police themselves commit murder, are they any less criminal than Dorner?

[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Wow, a real life Nazi POS.

No one will remember Christopher Dorner? I guess no one remembers John Brown either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown%27s_raid_on_Harpers_Ferry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_%28abolitionist%29

All house negroes should see Django Unchained.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I can tell you what I believe - not what I know . He murdered four prople - including the son of a retired police lawyer & his fiancee
he may have been crazy for years


they COULD have surrounded the house with armored cars & bright lites to make sure he did not escape & fill the house with NON-EXPLOSIVE tear gas

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I just assume he shot himself in the head - regardless of what the surrounding officers may have intended.

There is an old Indian saying - one about a pair of wolves that reside inside a man. One good, one evil. It is said they are constantly at war. Which one wins depends on which one is fed.

So - what I want to know is:

  • who is feeding the dogs
[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

burn the evidence

bury it at sea

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

does a bear shit in the woods?

[-] 0 points by inutileows (-18) 1 year ago

god I hope so

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Then you don't approve of a fair and impartial trial for people accused of heinous crimes?

[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Of course they did. Of course that just proved they really are thug killer kops, addicted to power not justice. Just as his firing proved. Can't have anyone fighting the man, now, can they?

It seems he originally believed in justice as the police mission. Being fired for a truthful complaint (the mentally ill homeless young man had a police boot print on his face, told his father the cops had kicked him, etc.) obviously was a rude wake up.

Unfortunately he slid into insanity. A proud, decent man driven over the edge. Insane but not a mad dog, he didn't kill his discoverers or the owners of the vehicles he hijacked -- it wasn't in him, even though it would have bought him time.

I sense a John Brown moment in time. An example of courage, insanity and ultimate failure (which Dorner knew was in the cards, though John Brown didn't) which inspired/may inspire others.

From the comments across Yahoo, AOL and everywhere else I've looked, it's apparent that the American people have turned against the cops. House slaves are always hated. The police made their choice when they obeyed orders to close down Occupy -- unAmerican, unPatriotic, anti-American values, anti the Constitution.

The promise of massa to the house negros is always: 'betray your people, betray your family, but we promise you that you will be viewed with the same respect that is given to us, the slave masters, you will practically be one of us.' It's a bad bargain, even for worms who side with power.

At the Union Square demonstration immediately after the eviction, I told the officers in the line I had to cross to get into the park, that they had just made a huge mistake in clearing Zuccotti. The American people have turned against them.

Image here: http://www.a-w-i-p.com/media/blogs/articles/10/1/A/US_america_police_state_fascism_in_motion_97_100_66.jpg?mtime=1360310048

[-] 0 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Amen it is true and all is well. This brother is fine with what takes to better place and not to be associated with the likes of these. He may have had the true heart and good intentions of what it used to be about to be peace officer. Condolences to those he left behind. You should give a shit ditto on your riddance.

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Perhaps they accidentally threw a match on the kindling :)

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

That entire house was ablaze.

In other news, CNN reports the Drones are here and they are not leaving anytime soon:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/05/us/alabama-child-hostage

[-] -3 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 1 year ago

Who gives a shit!! He's toast and he deserves everything he got and more. He was a murdering hypocritical Liberal POS!! Good riddance!!

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

It's not OK for a policeman to murder, but it's OK for a large group of policemen to murder?

[-] -1 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 1 year ago

You need to work on your analogies. That isn't really very good.

Do you even know or care that he murdered innocent people? Or is the fact that he's a Liberal wipe all that out and make it understandable and alright?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

was he a liberal? who sayz?

[-] -1 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 1 year ago

He's manifesto unmistakably indicates so.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I have a feeling that murder will never be investigated

no one deserves to die

[-] -2 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 1 year ago

You mean Hitler also?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

sure

[-] -2 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 1 year ago

You Libs are really fucked up.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

stop touching me with your liberal rod

pervert

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17440) 1 year ago

It's just GK and he's apparently rodless.

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

It wasn't an analogy. It's what happened.

[-] -3 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 1 year ago

So you don't know the answers to my questions.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Because Dorner's alleged murders were brutal does not excuse the police's more brutal murder. Whether Dorner was a liberal or conservative has absolutely no bearing on this issue.

[-] -3 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 1 year ago

How can you claim the police committed a "brutal" murder?

Were you there? You seem to care more about the welfare of the murderer then the victims of his rage.

You must be a Liberal also,...could that be why?

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Purposely setting a house on fire with a person inside is murder, no matter how powerful the authority or for what reason.

[Deleted]

[-] -3 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 1 year ago

You're making unfounded accusations. Until and if the authority's come to that conclusion you're just talking shit.

[-] -1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Dorner's crimes are unfounded accusations until they are proven in a court of law. I sincerely hope the Sherriff's actions will also be given their day in court.

[-] -1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

who is innocent? her dad was a corrupt cop. she profited off his work and never turned her back on a corrupt man. she got what was coming.

[-] 0 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 1 year ago

"she got what was coming"

You're truly just as fucking nuts as Dorner was.

[-] -1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

it's not tidy and clean but it's true.

[-] 0 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 1 year ago

" it's true"

Really? You being fucking nuts,is that what you mean?

If not,please explain how killing an innocent woman in cold blood could be construed as "she got what was coming"?