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Forum Post: Did it just dawn on you what the Tea Party is?

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 15, 2012, 11:35 p.m. EST by mediaauditr (-88)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I've been a proud Tea Party member since Feb 2009, emboldened daily by those of you who joke about it as would an immature child, running red face behind their Mom's legs when embarrassment strikes. After years of explaining to friends and family about what the Tea Party stands for, a simple explanation just dawned on me...

The Tea Party is made up of those American's who are mature enough to see the mathematical fact that our country is approaching an economic collapse. Led by both party's, republicans and democrats, we no longer have leadership with the country's best interests.

We are living through a Kleptocracy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy a form of political and government corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense of the wider population

Our path leads us to a Greek default. Today Greece just cut 1 out of 5 government workers, in a futile attempt to save their failing country. http://preview.tinyurl.com/6qykxzl

This week we see half of American's (dems) support the current administration and his increased spending. Those of you who believe that our current government (both sides) are concerned about your families are naive. You think taxing the rich is the answer. It's mathematically impossible for taxing the rich to fix the problems we have.

When did it dawn on you what the Tea Party stands for?

211 Comments

211 Comments


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[-] 4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

The Tea Baggers are a complete fake, fraud, AstroTurf.

Maybe you didn't get the memo, but from what I saw of you clowns (and we saw a lot because the Con media covered Baggers even if two of you showed up at Wal-Mart) you can't spell so you probably can't read, you idiots are done.

And Baggers are Cons in clown suits with pockets full of corndogs and Big Gulps of Mountain Dew in each hand. You clowns haven't a clue what the hell you're doing and you made Republicons like Boner the Weeper of the house double his liquor bill. That was fun to watch.

Baggers were fabricated and funded by Dick Armey and the Koch Bros, who chartered the buses, bought the permits and paid off the cops.

Baggers are as phony as the crowds Con operatives put together for RayGun and Bush photo opportunities.

And you numb-nutted dildos complain about Liberal Democratic Spending???

The REAL question is: What Con HASN'T raised the debt? And ruined the economy? Hoover to W!!!!???? Who do you think you're conning?

Since fucking RayGun (who turned us from a creditor nation into a debtor nation) our debt has exploded. Conned!

If the Con "AGENDA" was so great, we'd all be wealthy. Instead of the criminal "redistribution" of our wealth to the top 1%. Conned!

After 30+ years of being plagued by the Con Agenda, if we didn't have the safety nets FDR and the "LIBERAL AGENDA" put in place we'd be in The GREATEST Con Depression Ever! And probably another civil war.

Con Agenda! Con Media! Con Depression! We've been Conned!!

America has a Con PROBLEM!

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!

Image and Vote! Image and Vote! "We the 1%" NOT What They Wrote!!

[-] 1 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

Be careful, the teabaggers represent fascism, and it is real, and not as so objectionable as one might think.. These people love America and don't like what it has become, or where the mainstream of society is going....

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Very objectionable and very phony! Dick Armey and Koch Bros' retarded child.

[-] 0 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

I have a real question for you, do you think the president would have gotten elected if his wife was white? How about all the freemason shit in music an television today what example are they setting for our youth?

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Only if she was a Teabagger.

[-] 0 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

Thats only for the president come on salior...

[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

if anyone represents fascism it's barry and his administration

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17442) 2 years ago

Another great post!!

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

http://www.alternet.org/story/154252/the_republican_brain%3A_why_even_educated_conservatives_deny_science_--_and_reality?page=entire

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!

Image and Vote! Image and Vote! "We the 1%" NOT What They Wrote!!

[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

not only are you wrong about the tea party, you revel in your stupidity.

[-] 1 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

Im not so sure im totally wrong. And im border line genuis thanks. so many folk on this forum have secret names and have no home... Who you with, where you from...

[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

who am i with? what does that mean? i am a taxpaying american citizen

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Here's a doc we all should see, but as far as I know it's only playing in NY for a limited time

http://www.heist-themovie.com/index.html

Act Now!

The producers of "Heist: Who Stole the American Dream?" are putting together distribution plans to make the movie available to the widest possible audience. By acting now, you can help us get it into theaters nationwide.

How can you help?

Stay in touch with us by joining our newsletter list to the right, liking us on Facebook, and following us and retweeting @HeistDoc on Twitter. Share our website and social media links with your friends, family and colleagues.
Call your local movie theater and request that they screen "'Heist!" Audience demand brought "An Inconvenient Truth" into theaters. Together we can do this.
Donate whatever you can afford to our Outreach and Distribution fund. Every dollar counts! You can make a tax deductible donation to the right.

We sincerely thank you for your interest and support.

Frances Causey, Donald Goldmacher, and the entire "Heist" team

Take Action

There are two ways to think about affecting change in the U.S. – national political reform and local action. How can we do this?

Stay Informed and Speak Up. Find alternative media sources that provide fair and unbiased reporting. Follow analysts, journalists and bloggers whose viewpoint you respect. Educate yourself about the issues in Heist and follow policy developments that impact our economy, quality of life and the health of our environment.
When you see things you don't like, speak up! Call and write the President, your Senator, and your U.S. Representative. Find out who your city councilperson is and develop a relationship with her/him by weighing in on local politics in your area – become a squeaky wheel. Above all, join with others, for there is power in numbers.
Read and sign Rebuild the Dream's Contract for the American Dream.
Join Showdown in America's movement to reclaim the American financial system
Share your story about the importance of Social Security with Strengthen Social Security, who will pass it along to Congress.

http://www.heist-themovie.com/index.html

[-] -3 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Squidmark, I haven't seen this much nonsense spewed since you pooped 2 pepperoni Lean Pockets in your sleeping bag last night.

What does Con mean to you? Does that save you time from having to type out conservative? You have a lot of hate in your little tummy Squidee.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21304) 2 years ago

Taxing the rich would help. Why are you guys against that? Ending the wars would help. Why are you guys against that?

[-] 1 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

The 1% do not pay 40% of income taxes! Don't believe what you hear!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21304) 2 years ago

I believe it is something like 37%, but you're close.

[-] 0 points by asauti (-113) from Port Orchard, WA 2 years ago

Intelligent business/corporations have ways to pay little to no income taxes. The government can increase the percentages of what they are supposed to pay, but it won't matter. There are many ways to write-off profit.

[-] 2 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

It is those ways to circumvent paying taxes which are far more in need of change than the actual tax rates.

[-] -1 points by toonces (-117) 2 years ago

Why are you against lowering taxes on the less than wealthy?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21304) 2 years ago

Where did I say that? I'm not.

[-] -1 points by toonces (-117) 2 years ago

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (4110) 5 days ago

Taxing the rich would help. Why are you guys against that? Ending the wars would help. Why are you guys against that?

You want to raise taxes on people, not lower taxes on a lot more people.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21304) 2 years ago

Toonces, raising taxes collects revenue. Lowering taxes does not. One way to lower the deficit it to collect revenue, no?

[-] -1 points by toonces (-117) 2 years ago

Starve the government beast. Government is evil. You are either with us or against us.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21304) 2 years ago

No. I'm not with you on that one. I don't think the government is evil. It's been bought and paid for by the wealthy and corporations at the moment, but it's not evil. It can work very well for the majority of people if allowed to.

[-] -1 points by FreeDiscussion4 (70) 2 years ago

Can you post the "official" tax returns of the rich so we can see what your talking about? I have not seen an "official" tax return to make a judgement about how much they do or dont pay. Your claim suggests you have access to personal IRS tax returns. Show us a few.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21304) 2 years ago

That is silly. If the Bush tax cuts and the Bush wars were eliminated I wonder what the deficit would look like?

[-] 0 points by ZenWhoreDog (5) 2 years ago

BW, If we confiscated (or taxed at 100%) all income over $1 million dollars and withdrew from Afghanistan tomorrow, we would still not balance the budget. Just balance a ONE YEAR budget. That doesn't even address paying down the existing $14+ trilliom debt that needs to be paid down.

   Dumbocrats 
       Are
   Dun (ces)
[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Seeing the words "ZenWhoreDog" and "Dumbocrats" is pretty sad. But you're a good illustration of what I keep trying to point out about how counter productive the "Repelican" slurs are. Obviously this "Dumbocrat" slur is a direct response to ZenDog going around demonizing Republicans. Ostracizing half of the 99% is not the smartest way to seek consensus and strive toward unity. The mere existence of the ZenWhoreDog sock puppet illustrates that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In politics, as in physics.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

as I understand

the republican demonize the democrats (claiming it could be much worse)

while the democrats allow the system to perpetuate

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

ok

the republicans call the democrats socialist and communist

while the democrats bend over backward to give money to exclusive private control

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

If the 99% insists on dividing itself between red and blue and focusing on infighting, then they'll never make any gains. The 1% will continue to dominate while the 99% continue to bicker among themselves. Occupy is supposed to be about transcending that kind of weakness. Right?

[-] 0 points by ZenWhoreDog (5) 2 years ago

Thank you, thank you, thank you TechJ. At least YOU get 'me'.

  Dumborcrats
      Are
  Dun (ces)
[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21304) 2 years ago

Yes, but if the Bush tax cuts were never put into play and we never fought either the Iraq war or the war in Afghanistan where would we be? And, I don't care for your name too much.

[-] -3 points by ZenWhoreDog (5) 2 years ago

If all the Bush sins had never been committed, our economy would be about where it is, albeit, our debt would be lower. The casino mentality, sub prime lending, etc etc caused our current situation, not Bushy.

    Dumbocrats
         Are
    Dum (ces)
[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21304) 2 years ago

I'd have to defer this to someone like nucleus. I'm just not sure of the numbers, but I think the Bush tax cuts combined with the cost of the wars has been an enormous contributor to the current deficit.

[-] -2 points by ZenWhoreDog (5) 2 years ago

I understand. Would not expect you to defer to me since you dislike my screen name! lol

The Bush tax cuts ON THE WEALTHY have not been a good thing. Frankly, I was shocked over the Buffet and Romney numbers since I don't dabble in tax issues in that high of cotton. I guess I assumed there was a 3rd bracket on capital gains/divs and I also thought the alternative minimum tax was meant to prevent this travesty.

From a personal point of view, I pd no taxes for the first time since my burger-flippin high school days last yr on my $12k income last yr due to the Bush tax cuts....it felt strange, but it was in keeping with current tax rules.

It is wrong, but still wouldn't balance the budget. That was kinda our discussion point. I think this needs to be fixed regardless of the drop in the bucket it results in. It's not fair, and every dollar counts.

 Dumbocrats
      Are
 Dun (ces)
[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21304) 2 years ago

That's good. We agree in part then, but I still think nucleus may have the numbers on exactly where we'd be if the Bush tax cuts were never implemented and if we never went to war. Him or monetizingdiscontent (or something like that). LOL!

[-] -1 points by ZenWhoreDog (5) 2 years ago

I'll be looking for some links if anyone else replies with hard facts. I googled a little but couldn't find numbers to address our discussion easily. I am shooting from the gut (not hip) based on some things I HAVE read.

    Dumbocrats
         Are
    Dum (ces)
[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21304) 2 years ago

Okay. Maybe someone else will reply with some good numbers. I know they're out there.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

sure dude , send me your email address and i'll send you what you need

[Removed]

[-] 4 points by strivehappy (31) 2 years ago

it is really sad when I see people carrying water for mainstream Dems or Repubs. If the general election were between D.Kucinich and R.Paul, then people like me wouldn't be so cynical... since you can't lose with them either way. Those two have more integrity than the rest put together.

[-] 0 points by Dell (-168) 2 years ago

We deserve what we get. Who votes these losers into power? We do. Who tolerates a congressman or senator spending 30 - 40 years in office? We do. Why should we need term limits?We should be active enough to throw them out after 2 or three terms. We get what we deserve.

[-] 0 points by craigdangit (326) 2 years ago

Right on.

[-] 4 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Well, I'm pretty sure OWS is basically saying the same thing, albeit from a somewhat different angle. OWS may have a diverse message, but there is one consistent theme, our government sucks, both republicans and democrats. They're bought and paid for, seek only self-enrichment, and we all understand that very well. The tea party seems like it's dying out (maybe I'm wrong), but if it does die out, you should consider supporting OWS. I think OWS has a greater chance of success, because for one thing they haven't made the mistake of aligning themselves with a political party (as the tea party did), and they have plenty of "young blood" (whereas the tea party, not so much).

[-] 0 points by Breadwinner (33) 2 years ago

You say that both reps and dems suck yet you can go on almost any thread on this site and it is all about bashing reps and glorifying dems. That argument shouldn't even exist in this forum and the fact that it does is a clear indication that this movement has its own political bias and nothing will change. If you align yourself with either party, than you are accepting the same old same old.

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

I do want us to reach out to conservatives more effectively, and I think we will as time goes on. Right now conservatives are hearing our positions minus the sort of detailed qualification that's really necessary to properly analyze the merit of these views. As time goes on, the discussion will become fuller and more detailed. We will start to address the nuances (and the more abstract and complex questions), the distinctions between different social settings, we’ll begin to connect the dots better, recognize that our deeply held beliefs really aren't that different from the views held by conservatives (and vice versa), etc. etc. However, this is the sort of thing that cannot happen overnight. In the beginning, people tend to react to events based on their preexisting disposition and beliefs (in a more knee jerk way). Eventually, we'll move past the emotionalism, and dig into the substance.

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Here's the thing.

I do admit to the things dems do that I don't agree with.

I have yet to meet an (R), that admits to anything that that party has done wrong. they'll blame Carter before admitting Bush did anything wrong.

[-] 0 points by Breadwinner (33) 2 years ago

My point being that if you are for either than you have lost because you are accepting the current way of doing buisness.

[-] 2 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

There's your problem. You think government is a business.

You think the only thing that matters, happens in Washington.

Teabaggers raised my State taxes, and set up a law making it legal for kids to bully other kids, if they have a religious reason to do so.

Oh, there's a very real difference alright.

Very real.

Teabaggers are just (R)s only worse.

[-] 1 points by Breadwinner (33) 2 years ago

Again, what did the Libs do to California? Same thing, they stopped the flow of water to farmers (60% of the counties produce) to save a minnow? Screw the people, save the fish? They are equally guilty in different ways but either way is against what OWS is suppose to be about.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Whose idea was it that most of the water from Colorado is owned by California and Arizona? Does Colorado get to own most of the broccoli? Nope!

[-] 0 points by Breadwinner (33) 2 years ago

I hear ya. It is sad that other states have to take care of the most bankrupt state in the country. Even worse is that the reason they continue to drive there own state into the ground is because they know that the other states will have to take care of them.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Just wait until the San Andraes fault breaks into a gallop. See who gets to sweep up?

[-] 1 points by Breadwinner (33) 2 years ago

lol, at least no one will have to worry about who is going to pay for California's energy bills any more.

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

What's that got to do with anything I said?

I'm not talking ecology here. that's whole different subject.

I'm talking TAXES. Ain't teabaggers suppose to be opposed to those?

I'm talking bulling little kids. I guess you don't like those either.

So why did you come here?

[-] 0 points by Breadwinner (33) 2 years ago

Because it is the same thing. It has nothing to do with ecology, it has everything to do with less production of produce thus driving the price of food up for the rest of the country to save some stupid fish that no one knows about anyway.

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Let's see in your mind fish=taxes.

Legally bullying little kids, doesn't even get a bleep on your radar.

Would you considered yourself a dominionist?

[-] 0 points by Breadwinner (33) 2 years ago

I'm beginning to see what everyone else is saying about your posts. You can't equate the raise in price of a major food source in our country to taxes?

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

I'm the talk of the town.....:D!!

Yipee!!!!!

I'm talkin' I get taxed to offset yet another corporate tax break, and you want to bitch about fish???

You bring me fish??

I'm talkin' little kids getting bullied, but only for religious reasons, and you talk about fish??? .

Fish?

Are you nuts?

[-] 0 points by Breadwinner (33) 2 years ago

It's a complete waist of time to try to have a real conversation with you. You are the reason this movement is weak. If you can't draw similarities between the impact of raising taxes and raising food prices it's not worth talking to you.

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

It's an EPA issue, not a tax issue.

Teabaggers raised my taxes, not fish.

[-] -1 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

The two movements arise from a similar dissatisfaction such as, loss of faith in the government, the usurping of the peoples voice by the corporate lobby, the bleak financial conditions and future prospects. There is a difference to the approach to solving these problems. The left leans towards socialism, and the right towards fascism... I personally believe we the 99% need a new 3rd party in congress, and serious campaign finance reforms.

[-] -2 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Well said, I agree with your reply, although I take exception with you saying the right leans towards fascism. Today's conservative (TP) is nothing like the Italians in the 20's. And if you read a bit about fascism, you'll discover that fascism was born out ideals taken equally from the left and the right.

I'd say our current 1-party system with the Obama admin as the head is much more fascist than the TP's around the country who want to minimize this rapidly expanding government. Wouldn't you agree?

[-] 0 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

conservative or liberal? I'm leaning more towards liberty, progress and change, just my opinion.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Fiscally, I'm as conservative as a nun in the missionary position, socially, I'm all over the place. Pro abortion, pro gun rights, pro gay marriage. As long as your not harming anyone, do what you want.

Progress and change? Let me ask you this. Can you attain the progress you speak of without additional government regulations? What are a couple progressive issues you care about that don't require government regulation or law to enact?

So many of today's progressive issues actually digress our society. It takes us a step backwards. Example...Weakening our military in the name of progress....

Ask any military man who has served in front line combat, they'll tell you it's a bad idea to have women serving on the front lines with a bunch of men. Not only because women are not as strong physically, but also for troop moral. A group of 15 men are less cohesive if there are a few women present. Also, the enemy we are fighting in the middle east do not think of women as equal humans. Female soldiers would be mutilated if captured, horrific acts carried out as a result of they way our enemy views women, much worse than what our male soldiers would receive.

In the name of progress, our military has given permission to have women serve in front line combat, weakening our troops.

[-] 0 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

I hear you, I don't want women in the infantry either bro, spec ops- pilots ok. As a christian Im not really for abortion except in cases of rape, but Im definitely for contraception. Im for allot of the republican ideas as well as democratic ones. I agree with the Tea party in allot of ways. Has congress been bought out by special interests yes, are most of the people in America upset with the bank bail out yes. Are most people upset about our dependence on foriegn oil, yes. Do we think the richest 1% should pay taxes yes. Im also in favor of allot of other conservative ideas, gun rights, family vaules, integrity, leadership by example etc. But Im a liberal independent. I believe in freedom, social responsibilty, unions, legalization of marijuana, and family values most of all. To which Id like to say the power is in the hands of our women... God help them to be loving and humble.

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 2 years ago

"Has congress been bought out by special interests yes,"

Good start. From what I'm readin' here.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/goodbye-first-amendmen-trespass-bill-will-make-pro/

the only people discussing this sensibly are in threads about amendment.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/reform-constitutional-amendments/

[-] 0 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

I agree with everything you say. When you mention social responsibility however, do you mean social responsibility instilled on society through government rules and regulations? That's where I take issue. Social responsibility used to come from our church's and belief that there's a higher power judging us. The golden rule... do unto others... these days though, the government has done a great job of all but erasing that moral code, replacing it with a tax and regulation code. That's where I question the word progress. So much of what democratic values are do not progress our country. Multi-generational welfare is the most destructive thing you could do to a family.

[-] 0 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

Is welfare bad yes, people with no families is why there is welfare really... What do we do with that segment of society? I think the worst thing for families is divorce and child support... It allows women to leverage their children for profit, in the short term, versus strengthening the family over the long run. I have seen in my lifetime that children of married folks have more opportunity than those of divorced ones. Of the mongrelized poor only the brightest,most diligent students with little or no family loyalties make something of themselves. The perfect corporate employees...

[-] -3 points by jerseydevil (-11) 2 years ago

" they haven't made the mistake of aligning themselves with a political party"

Bullshit,the vast majority of OWS participants are Democrats/Leftists/Liberal/Socialists/Marxists and so on.

Obama is the OWS candidate. Not admitting to this is just plain disingenuous,the proof is all over this Forum. So why don't you start over again,this time be honest about it.

By the way the Tea Party is NOT dying out and yes,you are wrong yet again.

[-] 5 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

So which is it "Democrats/Leftists/Liberal/Socialists/Marxists"? the democrats and Obama specifically are not leftist (Obama is an avowed corporatist!), hardly liberal, definitely not socialist, and nowhere near marxist!!

You just throw all these non-compatible names together and claim they all are somehow working together, and out to get you, and the 'real' america? Get a clue.

Many OWS supporters do not support the two party system at all, in my view most don't

[-] 3 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Ummm, there's seizure medication that can treat those convulsions :)

[-] 0 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

Obviously you haven't read any of my posts. I consider Obama a traitor. I didn't vote for him.

[-] -1 points by jerseydevil (-11) 2 years ago

I replied to francismjenkins not LetsGetReal. So you forgot to log back into francismjenkins before you replied to my post huh?

Cool,Obama is a traitor that's something we can both agree on. However my point still stands,OWS participants are mostly Democrats/Leftists/Liberal/Socialists/Marxists and so on.

[-] 2 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

Nah, Francis and me are not the same person. We tend to agree on a lot of things though, except religion.

I agree that most, but not all, OWS's I have met are at that end of the spectrum as you say. There are a fair number of libertarians as well. Conservatives, not so much. I think that is unfortunate.

I would say that there is no formal political alignment however, which is a good thing. Many of us have vigorously opposed the attempts of MoveOn to co-opt OWS because we feared that it would keep conservatives away, and understandably so.

[+] -5 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

You are correct !!!!

[+] -6 points by owsleader2013 (-1) 2 years ago

OWS only exists for 2 reasons.

1.) Re-Elect Obama 2012

2.) SEIU - Grow the public employee prison unions, .... create more CONVICTS grow the prison business.

[-] 3 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Bottom line?

Teabaggers are (R)epelican'ts.

Every single one of them.

Hopefully, that just dawned on you.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

What is Repelicant? I see that word so much on here. First time I encounter that word is here, and it's in every other post. The new catchphrase for you fools, who are listening to the band as the Titanic sinks.

Is it a play on the word can't? Or is it a play on the word repel? Do republicans repel you? Is that what you're trying to say?

Please enlighten me.

[-] 2 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

In a nut shell, (R)epelican'ts are what became of the Republican Party sometime after Nixon uttered the words, "I am not a crook".

He was. (R)epelican'ts still think he wasn't.

Yes, yes and yes.

How many alleged teabaggers are on a ballot without an (R) after their names?

[-] 0 points by Breadwinner (33) 2 years ago

The same question could be asked: How many liberals are on the ballet without a (D) after their names?

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

You realize, that made no sense at all?

No, I don't suppose you do, you are after all, new here.

[-] 0 points by Breadwinner (33) 2 years ago

It makes perfect sense. You selected a division of the rep party and asked how many of them do not have an R after their name on a ballot. I cherry picked a division of the dem party and did the same.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

So a Repelican't is a republican who believes Nixon was not a crook?

[-] 2 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Indeed, that's one way to look at it.

Care to answer my question now?

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

I'm trying to make sense of your question. Are you asking:

How many tea party member who are not republicans are on voting ballots? Are you asking about any state or federal voting ballot in 2010? Or for the upcoming elections in 2012?

[-] 2 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Comprehension problems? It's not like you had to scroll or anything.

Answer it any which way you like.

[-] 0 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

35 of them on the ballot.

[-] 2 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

What's in the little ( ) after their names?

[-] -1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

He (she?) played the same exact 'question' game with me for the last few days. Shooz is a very combative liberal who is obsessed with demonizing Republicans.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Thanks tech. Seems like shooz has snorted too many bath salts. I can't hardly make sense of what he's asking. His question is like asking how many stars are in the sky. It's an impossible question to answer, because it's incomplete.

[-] 1 points by hamalmang (722) from Lebanon, PA 2 years ago

Zero. Stars are in outer space. That was easy. I had no problem understanding shooz's question. Basically it was about if the tea party candidates are so against the establishment and the corrupt political system why does almost every single one of them have an (R) after their name. They don't run as independents because they are just using the populism of the tea party to strengthen a fading Republican party.

[-] -2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Why do you still insist on polluting this forum with your partisanship? Is this Occupy Republicans? Can't you look past your voter registration card to see the bigger picture?

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Excuse me?? My partisanship?

As an admitted member of the party who shall not be named, why don't tell me about all the good things that came out as a result of 8 years of the Bush administration?

They must certainly be legendary, although I seem to have missed them.

Today's members of that party are hell bent on continuing those very same policies.

For extra points (since no else has explained it), please do tell why it was a good thing for Bush to kick the USPS in balls on the way out the door, even though the the Worlds economy was crashing all around us.

It would seem, it's YOU who needs to see the BIGGER picture, as missed a lot of pertinent details.

Also please explain how comments from the candidates running under the banner of the party who shall not named are not only completely divisive, but also completely off point?

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

You objected to the "partisan" label, and then you immediately went into a partisan tirade. I didn't vote for Bush so I'm not going to defend him. You're obviously not interested in anything other than the red-versus-blue battle that you're fighting in your mind. I'm here looking for common ground. Talking about political parties at all is a distraction from the bigger picture. But it seems to be all that you want to talk about.

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Pretty good avoid answering the questions.

In fact, it was pretty good at avoiding the truth.

I'm amazed at how many members of the party who shall not be named, reuse to admit they voted for him. Makes me wonder who they did vote for, twice.

Sometimes, in order to find common ground, it's important to know what ground you're standing on.

So tell me then, if you didn't vote for Bush, why do still support the party that wants to continue his policies?

Your increasingly enigmatic responses are becoming divisive in and of themselves.

You refusal to offer clear answers to almost any question, even more so.

If you won't admit to where you are standing, finding common ground becomes impossible.

Why would you do that?

[-] 0 points by Breadwinner (33) 2 years ago

I voted for him. Who the hell would have wanted Al Gore or John Kerry? I also voted for Bill Clinton.

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Oh, good. Perhaps then, you can answer the unanswered questions.

What good policy came out of those 8 years, and why did he kick the dog(USPS) on the way out the door?

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

I'm ignoring your questions that are aimed at framing the issues around partisan bickering. I'm trying to resist that, because I'm seeking common ground. Not voting for Bush and opposing the Iraq war are things that you and I probably agree on. But you're so unbelievably focused on how much you hate Republicans that you managed to turn that into another dart. You really need to find the strength to look past cheering for your own team, to find ways to build bridges to the other side. Because really we're both on the same side. I could point out that Obama (who I did vote for) is continuing Bush policies, but what is the point of Occupy if we're going to sit around waving red and blue flags and telling each other that the other side is wrong? We should be trying to find things that we agree about, so that we can fight together as the 99%. Not fight against each other as the left side of the 99% versus the right side.

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Still repeating yourself?

Still refusing to answer any question at all?

Still refusing to understand how common ground can be found by defining the ground disparate opinions are based on?

Still refusing to admit the "war" you site was started by the party who shall not be named? As though that has no bearing on the issue you brought up?

I'm sorry. It does.

You yourself have been guilty of the divisiveness you are accusing me of in many of the threads, you yourself started.

You claim you are seeking common ground, yet you refuse to describe the ground you are standing on.

You make it blurrier with every post, every repetition.

So please explain to us, why you are still a member of the party who shall not be named, even though you claim you don't vote for them.

I will now offer you some new common ground.

Unions support Occupy, and Occupy supports unions.

It's important to all of us, that you too throw your support to increased unionization.

Won't you please join us on that piece of common ground?

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

Labor unions are a wedge issue that the 99% don't all agree on. If Occupy were to focus on labor unions as a core issue then they would alienate half of the 99%, and therefore fail to represent the 99%.

I'm a Republican because I'm an entrepreneur. To answer your question.

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Very divisive of you, to claim it as a wedge issue.

It's a very real national issue, and core to Occupy.

If you can't accept this small piece of common ground, then I see little hope for you.

What in the World does being an entrepreneur have to do with your "choice" of being a member of the party who shall not be named?

Just another stab at divisiveness on your part?

[-] -1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

That doesn't even make any sense. I get that you hate Republicans, and therefore you're enjoying being combative with me just for kicks. I understand. You're venting your prejudices like a racist talking about minorities. I understand.

But bringing up issues that you know that people don't agree on is "divisive". For example, there are people on both sides of the abortion debate. Any time anybody brings up abortion, that's divisive. Because you know for certain that no matter which side you're on, there will be a lot of people on the other side.

Labor unions are the same. Many Americans will agree with issues like eliminating super PACs, or limiting the power of lobbyists. But only a fraction of Americans will agree about supporting labor unions, or fighting against labor unions, or supporting abortion, or opposing abortion.

You're focused on those wedge issues that divide the 99% instead of focusing on issues that unite the 99%. By doing that, you're working toward the interests of the 1%. While we squabble over the things that divide us, they win. As long as we continue to fail to unite, we lose.

[-] 2 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

The anti-union movement is a wedge issue, wholly created by the party who shall not be named.

It's one of the oldest divisive issues in their book.

Why do refuse to admit it's so? That refusal is divisive in and of itself.

All I see from you is a refusal to accept common ground, on any but the narrowest of issues. Yet I don't see you starting threads in endorsement of those narrow issues.

Remember that sign from the early days of Occupy?

The one that said it's not one thing, it's everything.

The common ground that needs to be reached is much broader than the narrow one you are willing to admit.

On top of that, you have still not been willing to describe the ground, you are standing on.

I find that divisive, along with your refusal to clearly answer any questions at all.

Why are you so enigmatic?.

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

I'm not enigmatic, I'm just not interested in engaging with partisan bickering with you.

Labor unions are a wedge issue and I described exactly why in the previous post. If an issue divides Americans into two broad groups, like abortion or environmental regulations or labor unions, then it's a wedge issue. Because bringing it up can only serve to alienate people on one side or the other.

There are, on the other hand, unifying issues that we could focus on. Occupy is supposedly all about consensus-building. So focusing on the things that divide us is not that.

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

I'm about to stop taking you seriously.

You have over and over refused to admit certain truths.

You have refused to clearly answer any questions posed to you.

You have refused to attack anti-OWS and anti-Democratic thread with any of the gusto you have reserved for me.

You have refused to admit the divisiveness in the threads you have started.

I'm losing patience with your continued repetition, and refusal to find broader common ground. Or even admit that it exists.

I find it downright derisive and divisive.

Why are you being this way?

[-] 0 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

Tech J n Shooz, leadership means not pointing the finger, showing who's fault it is matters little, whats important is to be solution oriented. As an intelligent, middle-aged white, straight, christian male, I find it alarmingly good, that tea party people and OWS people are so pissed about the same things... There is a great dissatisfaction with whats going on in our society, and economy.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Shooz, Have you ever been told you talk in circles? Tech has made it very clear where he stands, yet you keep trying to argue. He's clearly avoiding an argument to try and talk some sense to you. You don't recognize it, but it's as though you are on a ledge, Tech is yelling for you to come down. Third Eye Blind begins playing 'Step off from that ledge my friend...' Tech is screaming the song lyrics to you as you plummet to your death.

You're a bully shooz. An obese clueless bully who turns this forum into a sad place for members like Tech who are striving for positive change in our country. I pity you. I will meditate and say a prayer for you at my bedside tonight.

[-] 2 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Excuse me?

If you are going to insult me, you should be more direct.

That was just silly and convoluted, though I wonder why Junkie isn't calling you out for your obvious divisiveness.

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

You cannot reason with crazy people. While there are issues we all agree on, like citizens united, the right seems to think that joining us in an issue is going to make them go to hell. They come here and name call, and frankly i am not going to stand by and be called a socialist anarchist facist anti american traitor by bunch of people who voted for george bush twice! Then there are libertarians who come here to recruit, annoying everyone with there fed hysteria, and ignoring that their favorite guy is running as a republican, and is just another socially conservative anti woman, anti immigrant, anti black, nutter.

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

I'm a Republican, and I seem to be one of the only people here who is trying to get people to focus on common-ground issues that could win a broad base of support. You're demonizing a hypothetical evil Republican while you're talking to an ACTUAL Republican who is seeking consensus.

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

Pleased to meet you! I agree there is common ground, but seriously, how successful have you been in persuading your fellow republicans to join us in at least an item by item protest? Be honest... im betting not too many. It might be they simply dont want to empower a group they see as antithecal to their beliefs, but you cant deny the name calling...

I lived it at work for 12 years, being outnumbered 80 to 3 in my work group. I do not jump to conclusions. While there was good natured banter prior to the war in iraq, it became a living hell afterward...add to that obamas election, and i am talking seriuosly offensive racism on top of openly hostile behavior, with even managers participating.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 2 years ago

I have not attempted to convince ANYBODY to join an Occupy protest. Republican or Democrat or other. Why would I? Any time that I take the time to participate here, I see a lot of un-focused partisan bickering. Plenty of Republican agree with some of Occupy's core ideas, like getting money out of politics. Eliminating Super PACs. Reducing the influence of lobbyists. We should be seeking common ground, not bickering over whether red or blue is better like sports team fanatics.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

On behalf of you Tech, I wrote this to Snooze above...

Shooz, Have you ever been told you talk in circles? Tech has made it very clear where he stands, yet you keep trying to argue. He's clearly avoiding an argument to try and talk some sense to you. You don't recognize it, but it's as though you are on a ledge, Tech is yelling for you to come down. Third Eye Blind begins playing 'Step off from that ledge my friend...' Tech is screaming the song lyrics to you as you plummet to your death.

You're a bully shooz. An obese clueless bully who turns this forum into a sad place for members like Tech who are striving for positive change in our country. I pity you. I will meditate and say a prayer for you at my bedside tonight.

[-] 3 points by MichaelBlack17 (40) 2 years ago

Born on the 8th floor of the Chicago Mercentile Exchange (the home of the 1%): The originators of birth certificates against a black president's existence, of death panels against a black president making the first baby steps toward decent health care in the world's richest nation, "You lie" (spoken by a child of the Confederacy which, by the way, was factually incorrect) publicly to a sitting black president, anti-Muslim, homophobic, taking away basic civil liberties from Mexican Americans (under the guise of "illegal immigration" in places it hardly exists), socialist/fascist in the same breath accompanied by the filthiest of demonstration pictures -- pure filth at every turn, spewing your religion of hate at every living being.

[-] 2 points by MichaelBlack17 (40) 2 years ago

The Tea Party wing of the Republican Party is, simply, American neo-fascism cloaked in the flag and the Cross. Germany had two chances to rid itself of its brand of fascism -- the Communists and the elected Social Democrats (the governing party, at the time). The two chose, instead, to fight, and even assassinate, each other -- making the fascists' jobs of weakening the government and of assassinations that much easier. With help from the rightist elements of the military and police, and (of course) from industrialists, the fascists accomplished the impossible, the unthinkable -- namely, the Chancellorship and control of the Legislature (Reichstag). In the US, the industrialists have much better control of their chosen Republican Party members (unlike the German industrialists, who found themselves playing only the co-staring role, behind the controlling government. But, the similarities are pretty striking -- completely similar, if the Tea Folks, actually, took control of their corporate masters.

[-] 2 points by Denofearth (41) 2 years ago

I was convinced of what the Tea Party stands for when some of their members found decided to stand just beyond the line outside voting places with loaded weapons. I came to understand further what they are about when they held a rally in my home town where every speaker ( with no exceptions ) felt the need to declare that " That f**ing ngger ain't my president " And finally I became absolutely convinced when I was discussing Medicare with a gaggle of Tea Partiers who were riding around on their rascals ( obtained for free through medicare ) and heard them dare to say that medicare needed to be abolished ( just not while they are still breathing ) Tea Party is a party of racist, gun toting hypocrites looking to establish a fascist regime in good ol' America

[-] -1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

"I was convinced of what the Tea Party stands for when some of their members found decided to stand just beyond the line outside voting places with loaded weapons."

Wrong. At one RALLY, a few people carried guns in support of the second amendment. They did NOT bring them to "voting places". You might just be confusing this with when the Black Panthers posted men with sticks outside voting places....

Since you are wrong about the first fact, I find myself skeptical of your second claim that EVERY speaker used the exact same phrase about our President. Do you have video or audio of this?

And even more skeptical that you had a conversation with "Tea Partiers on rascals" who wanted Medicare abolished.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

What town? What rally? If this is true, I'd love to see some evidence. Certainly there would have been some footage of this. Tens of thousands of rally's around the country for years, not ONE piece of video footage of any racist comments, besides the democrat plants put in 1 out of a 1000 rally's to stir the pot.

What's so sad is you don't know why you make up these lies. I'd say a bit too much Chris Matthews, chased by Rachel Maddow, along with that new creature that looks like Rachel Maddow, but is a man.

I feel so sorry for your family. :-\

[-] 3 points by Denofearth (41) 2 years ago

I reside in the ultra conservative prison capitol of the world Fremont County Colorado 14 prisons in one county including the Supermax where the vilest of the vile are sent. As for footage, the footage of Tea Partiers carrying guns outside polling places was covered by all the reputable news sources ( can't tell you where they were because with that kind of coverage I thought it was common knowledge) and if you never heard a Tea Partier exclaim passionately their racist views, then you didn't ask the right questions.

[-] -2 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

We had tea partyer's carrying guns outside too. And I'm in California of all places. They were all licensed, and/or carried permits. Cooperating and friendly with the police. Ohh, you like the idea of only criminals having weapons don't you? That's smart.

Oh, and the local media outlets carried the stories too, it was no big deal. Deep down, were you hoping for some of those law abiding citizens to start shooting?

So in this news footage you speak of, were the TP'ers threatening anyone with their guns? Was anybody besides you worried? Send a link to the footage, I would like to see it.

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

I don't like the idea of jerks, walking around with loaded weapons.

Any of them.

Where's Wyatt Earp when you need him.

[-] 2 points by Denofearth (41) 2 years ago

Oh and just to set the record straight, not a fan of Maddow or Mathews. Just because the Tea Party here is more extreme than you like in no way makes it less real.

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

I think it just dawned on me that this thread really is about what the Tea Party WAS. Tea Party is over mediaaude. Your a straggler, misplaced, and finding yourself in your last grasp Of Tea Party Patriotism. What a great and worthy warrior you are. When this year is over, your bag party will be rendered obsolete. Your angry ill informed beliefs will no longer be relevant to anything.

Party on, dude!

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Are you writing from the perspective of a limp dick surfer with cavity ridden leather genital bags?

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

And now, mediaauditr, you have just shown what the Tea Party was about in your last post. Angry rants and insults. You lose any battle before it even starts with this attitude. In my personal experience, you act just like the rest of them do. Many in this forum, your pals, write posts like you.

You are an prime example of how respect took a back seat to the ends justifies the means.

[-] 0 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

Wait....you might just be talking about the "ends justifying the means" tactics of OWS - or at least some segments of it like those out in California? You know, the ones who are breaking windows etc....

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

Every person is their own island. One bad apple doesn't make all the apples bad

: )

[-] -2 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Angry rants and insults? Ohh, so now you're taking the high road? Quick transition from the post above mine.

Puzzlin, with posts like yours above, no one can take what you say seriously. You say the Tea Party will be rendered obsolete? Why would it become obsolete at the end of the year? When you say obsolete, what do you mean? Not as effective in the voting process?

Every time I'm on here, I try imagining how many members on here are paid by MoveOn.org, or one of the unions. Astounding the numbers may be. Continue your water carrying for the democrats, perhaps they'll throw you some welfare money.

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

SO just what has been the accomplishments of the TP since your a defender of it?

I really look forward to this answer since it will likely be devoid of any facts. But take a swing anyway. We already know your opinions are your facts. So stab away!!!

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

Since taxing the rich cant solve any problems, why dont we just GIVE them all of our money and let them use the poor for kindling?


I wish I had the numbers but I dont.
Every year: How much would our economy improve if
we taxed capital gains like income ?
we had an absolute minimum corporate tax of 25%?
we added a tax surcharge of 20% to all income over $1,000,000?
if we never had government contract that were cost plus or changeable price?
any company that does business in America of any kind must pay tax on all of its income?


you tp people seem to draw parallels between RP & DK-
what would they each do about medicare?
what would they each do about medicaid?
what would they each do about social security?
what would they each do about abortion laws?
what would they each do about public works projects?
what would they each do about states rights?
what would they each do about EPA?
what would they each do about FAA?
what would they each do about civil rights?
what would they each do about government regulations on banks?
what would they each do about government regulations on corporations?

[-] 0 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

What would they each do about Medicare? Well, let's see what the Democrats have done since 2008.

1) They have instituted cuts of $500 billion to the program that are contained within the new health care laws. Sources: "Updated Health Care Charts". Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. November 19, 2009. and "Health Reform, Point by Point - Bills Compared". The Wall Street Journal. March 22, 2010. Retrieved 2010-04-07.

2) In his 2013 budget, President Obama has proposed cutting an additional $250 billion out of Medicare and $65 billion out of Medicaid over the next 10 years. The Budget also would cut payments to long-term care hospitals and to nursing homes, in addition to "freezing" for the third year in a row certain services critical to seniors. The budgets for nutrition services such as Meals on Wheels, caregiver supports, respite care, and aging network services would all be held at 2012 levels. Funding for aging and disability resource centers would be cut by more than one-third.

3) A recent TSCL survey found that nearly half of senior citizens are receiving lower Social Security checks in 2011 after Medicare premiums are deducted; of these, one in four are receiving at least $50 less per month, and one in nine are receiving at least $100 less per month. The new forecasts suggest that next year seniors should again expect to see their benefit drop by a similar, if not even larger, amount. The majority of seniors will see drops in their Social Security benefits after Medicare premiums are deducted according to The Senior Citizens League: http://www.disabled-world.com/disability/social-security/usa/decreasing-benefits.php#ixzz1nJeMxTpn

In addition to already affecting those seniors receiving benefits today (through both proposed budgetary cuts and the cuts already in the new law, "ObamaCare" establishes an Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB). This special 15-member panel, to be appointed by the president with Senate confirmation for 6-year terms beginning in 2013, is intended specifically to reduce the rate of future per-capita spending on Medicare. While legislation states IPAB proposals cannot specifically ration medical care, IPAB can issue recommendations pertaining to Medicare payments to providers and suppliers which could not help but have the same effect. And the law states that they can make these cuts without congressional oversight.

Now, just what is it that Republicans have proposed? The Ryan Plan is the only "real" plan out there that can be looked at in the same way that "ObamaCare" and the proposed budget can be looked at....

Ryan's plan calls for instituting a new program beginning no earlier than January 2021 affecting only those aged 55 and younger - not those about to enter into benefit eligibility or those already there.

See next post..........

[-] 0 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

Part A and Part B trust funds are combined to create one unified trust fund. The new Medicare Program and the existing program continue to be financed by trust fund revenues, Medicare payroll taxes, and general revenue contributions as done now.

By January 2021, insurance companies must establish competing healthcare coverage plans with specified benefits and limitations. Some would provide only high-deductible catastrophic coverage. Others could provide more liberalized coverage. Medicare would establish categories of generalized coverage. All plans which met specified requirements would become "Medicare certified" and eligible for premium payment cost sharing.

Each patient would select from the approved list a plan best matching his or her expected healthcare needs for the coming year. Medicare would reimburse the health plan a fixed amount of money for each enrollee for premium payment support. If the Medicare-provided assistance exceeded the premium required for the selected plan, that excess would be credited to a "Medical Savings Account" (MSA) for the beneficiary's future use.

Ryan currently estimates the reimbursement amount at an average $11,000 -- with further adjustment determined by income level. Higher-income patients would receive less premium assistance. Beneficiaries with annual incomes below $80,000 ($160,000 for couples) would receive full standard payment amounts; beneficiaries with annual incomes between $80,000 and $200,000 ($160,000 to $400,000 for couples) would receive 50 percent of the standard; and beneficiaries with incomes above $200,000 ($400,000 for couples) would receive 30 percent.

After enrollment in a plan, all beneficiaries could, at their option, undergo an annual health "risk adjustment" examination. Results of this exam would be submitted to Medicare and become eligible for a higher risk-adjusted premium payment.

To further assist those individuals with incomes near or below the poverty level, Ryan proposes additional payments above just premium support. While any enrollee, regardless of income level, would be able to set up a tax-free MSA if desired, the new Medicare Program would specifically establish and fund an MSA for low-income beneficiaries to help them with deductible payments required for care procedures. The amount paid to those below the government-established poverty level would be equal to the deductible for the average Medicare high-deductible health plan. Those with incomes at or 50 percent above the poverty level would receive 75 percent of the full deposit.

Recognizing that Americans are becoming healthier than ever before and living much longer, Ryan further proposes that a phase-in of the start of the new Medicare program would, after 2021, be raised in a slow incremental fashion from the current age 65 to 69 years 6 months.

As proposed, the Ryan Medicare plan resembles the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). In the FEHBP model the government provides a set financial contribution each year. Employees and retirees have a variety of options, including catastrophic coverage plans with high deductibles, health maintenance organizations, and high-end plans with many choices of doctors and other providers. Everyone has a choice of at least 10 fee-for-service plans, but the exact number varies by where an enrollee lives.

The Ryan plan also resembles the health insurance model developed over the years in Germany. Under the German system, seniors choose insurance coverage from among a list of approved, competing nongovernmental "sickness funds" (Krankenkassen). Those insurers, in turn, pay for healthcare provided by private physicians and hospitals with beneficiaries and the government each paying a share of healthcare premiums.

A comparison with the German system reveals Germany achieves satisfactory healthcare at about one-half the per capita cost presently experienced in the United States, but also highlights similarities and differences between the two approaches

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/06/ok_just_what_is_the_ryan_medicare_plan.html

[-] 0 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

Since Ryan's plan has not begun to be implemented it is difficult to understand where unintended consequences may be realized from it - unlike Obamacare which has already affected Senior benefits and has had at least one planned program change scrapped because the application of it was not what was anticipated.

Democrats are very good at saying they will not "cut medicare" yet, that is exactly what they do and propose to do.

[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

don't confuse the ows people with facts. it's not good for them

[-] 2 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

what is the relationship between the koch bros. and the tea party?

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Your guess is as good as mine. Never heard of them, never seen them. Might as well be the Mario Bros.

Coke Bros... Cool name, that's all I know.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17442) 2 years ago

Don't forget to read this one here as well: http://occupywallst.org/forum/koch-brother-brags-about-helping-walker/

You are all about getting the money out of politics, amiright?

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

We will get money out of politics when we go to Public Financing of Campaigns and not until then.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17442) 2 years ago

You read the article, right?

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

http://www.progressive.org/koch_brother_brags_about_helping_walker.htm Page not found The requested page could not be found.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17442) 2 years ago

http://www.progressive.org/koch_brother_brags_about_helping_walker.html This time it’s for real. David Koch, who was impersonated by a phony phonecaller in a conversation with Scott Walker, is standing by the Wisconsin governor.

"We're helping him, as we should. We've gotten pretty good at this over the years," he told the Palm Beach Post over the weekend. "We've spent a lot of money in Wisconsin. We're going to spend more."

According to the Wisconsin Democracy Project, the Koch-funded Americans for Prosperity, along with another group, spent $1.1 million on three TV ads for Walker in the fall and spent an additional $700,000 earlier this month on another ad buy.

Koch, the fourth wealthiest man in America along with his brother, bluntly explained his rationale:

“What Scott Walker is doing with the public unions in Wisconsin is critically important. He's an impressive guy and he's very courageous," Koch says after a benefit dinner of salmon and white wine. "If the unions win the recall, there will be no stopping union power."

His comments echoed the made-up ones his impersonator, Ian Murphy, used in the infamous prank call last year.

After Walker said he was ratcheting up the heat and laying off more public sector workers, Murphy, claiming to be Koch, said: “Beautiful, beautiful. Gotta crush that union.”


Hijacking Recall 2012 Americans for Prosperity

Posted: December 29, 2011 Updated: February 17, 2012

Americans for Prosperity was created in 2003 to back conservative issue like small government and lower taxes. The group refuses to disclose how much it spends on outside electioneering activities in Wisconsin and elsewhere, but the Democracy Campaign estimates Americans for Prosperity has doled out $825,000 on negative ads, mailings and other activities in Wisconsin elections since 2006. Most of the group's spending - an estimated $800,000 - occurred during the first round of recall elections involving nine state senators in the summer of 2011.

The group was founded by billionaire brothers David and Charles Koch, owners of Koch Industries and Wisconsin corporations like Georgia-Pacific. Luke Hilgemann is the current director of the Wisconsin chapter of Americans for Prosperity. Hilgemann was chief of staff to Republican Assembly Majority Leader Scott Suder of Abbottsford. The group's first state director, Mark Block, is a longtime Wisconsin political operative and former Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain's campaign manager. Block was campaign manager in the late 1990s for former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Jon Wilcox and ended up paying a $15,000 fine, the largest fine in state history for violating state election laws, and was banned for three years from working on Wisconsin political campaigns.

Americans for Prosperity resumed its negative electioneering activities in Wisconsin in late 2011 amid a second round of recall efforts against Republican Governor Scott Walker and four GOP state senators. During the last several weeks of 2011, Americans for Prosperity and the Madison-based MacIver Institute, another organization that backs conservative issues, spent a reported $1.1 million on three television ads - here, here and here via WisPolitics.com - in the Milwaukee, Green Bay, Wausau and La Crosse TV markets urging viewers not to sign recall petitions during the 60-day period they were being circulated.

The two groups reportedly spent an additional $700,000 in early February to rebroadcast one of its earlier ads - here - from 2011 that defended Walker's economic policies without naming him, including his successful effort to slash public employee collective bargaining rights. Americans for Prosperity and MacIver also sponsored a new 60-second ad and a shorter 30-second version of it in mid-February that featured a series of brief interviews with people identified as a small business owner, state employee and police officers among others who claimed Wisconsin's last state budget cut the deficit without raising taxes and laying off workers.

Last active election: 2011 http://www.wisdc.org/afp2012.php

[-] 0 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

http://www.corson.org/archives/soros/soros1.htm

"The Shadow Party is the real power driving the Democrat machine. It is a network of radicals dedicated to transforming our constitutional republic into a socialist hive. The leader of these radicals is ... George Soros. He has essentially privatized the Democratic Party, bringing it under his personal control. The Shadow Party is the instrument through which he exerts that control.... It works by siphoning off hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign contributions that would have gone to the Democratic Party in normal times, and putting those contributions at the personal disposal of Mr. Soros. He then uses that money to buy influence and loyalty where he sees fit. In 2003, Soros set up a network of privately-owned groups which acts as a shadow or mirror image of the Party. It performs all the functions we would normally expect the real Democratic Party to perform, such as shaping the Party platform, fielding candidates, running campaigns, and so forth.  However, it performs these functions under the private supervision of Mr. Soros and his associates. The Shadow Party derives its power from its ability to raise huge sums of money. By controlling the Democrat purse strings, the Shadow Party can make or break any Democrat candidate by deciding whether or not to fund him. During the 2004 election cycle, the Shadow Party raised more than $300 million for Democrat candidates, prompting one of its operatives, MoveOn PAC director Eli Pariser, to declare, 'Now it's our party. We bought it, we own it.…'"

In a November 11, 2003 interview with Laura Blumenfeld of the Washington Post, Soros described how he had jump-started the Shadow Party during the summer of 2002 by summoning a team of political strategists, activists, and Democrat donors to his Southampton beach house in Long Island. The attendees included: Morton H. Halperin (Director of Soros' Open Society Institute); John Podesta (Democrat strategist and former Bill Clinton chief of staff); Jeremy Rosner (Democrat strategist and pollster, and ex-foreign policy speechwriter for Bill Clinton); Robert Boorstin (Democrat strategist and pollster); Carl Pope (America Coming Together co-founder, Democrat strategist, and Sierra Club Executive Director); Steve Rosenthal (Labor leader, CEO of America Coming Together, and former advisor to Clinton Labor Secretary Robert Reich); Peter Lewis (major Democrat donor and insurance entrepreneur); Rob Glaser (major Democrat donor and Silicon Valley pioneer); Ellen Malcolm (co-founder and President of America Coming Together and founder of Emily's List); Rob McKay (major Democrat donor); and Lewis and Dorothy Cullman (major Democrat donors).

At that meeting, Soros laid out his plan to unseat incumbent President George W. Bush.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17442) 2 years ago

ALEC Model Bill Behind Push To Require Climate Denial Instruction In Schools

cgibson | 26 January 2012 | 7:20 PM

http://www.polluterwatch.com/blog/alec-model-bill-behind-push-require-climate-denial-instruction-schools

ALEC Exposed website

Written by Steve Horn, crossposted from DeSmogBlog.

On January 16, the Los Angeles Times revealed that anti-science bills have been popping up over the past several years in statehouses across the U.S., mandating the teaching of climate change denial or "skepticism" as a credible "theoretical alternative" to human caused climate change came.

The L.A. Times' Neela Banerjee explained,

"Texas and Louisiana have introduced education standards that require educators to teach climate change denial as a valid scientific position. South Dakota and Utah passed resolutions denying climate change. Tennessee and Oklahoma also have introduced legislation to give climate change skeptics a place in the classroom." What the excellent Times coverage missed is that key language in these anti-science bills all eminated from a single source: the American Legislative Exchange Council, or ALEC.

ALEC Exposed: No, Not Alec Baldwin In summer 2011, "ALEC Exposed," a project of the Center for Media and Democracy (CMD)*, taught those alarmed about the power that corporations wield in the American political sphere an important lesson: when bills with a similar DNA pop up in various statehouses nationwide, it's no coincidence.

Explaining the nature and origins of the project, CMD wrote, "[CMD] unveiled a trove of over 800 'model' bills and resolutions secretly voted on by corporations and politicians through the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). These bills reveal the corporate collaboration reshaping our democracy, state by state."

CMD continued, "Before our publication of this trove of bills, it has been difficult to trace the numerous controversial and extreme provisions popping up in legislatures across the country directly to ALEC and its corporate underwriters."

CMD explained that ALEC conducts its operations in the most shadowy of manners (emphases mine):

"Through ALEC, behind closed doors, corporations hand state legislators the changes to the law they desire that directly benefit their bottom line. Along with legislators, corporations have membership in ALEC. Corporations sit on all nine ALEC task forces and vote with legislators to approve 'model' bills…Corporations fund almost all of ALEC's operations. Participating legislators, overwhelmingly conservative Republicans, then bring those proposals home and introduce them in statehouses across the land as their own brilliant ideas and important public policy innovations—without disclosing that corporations crafted and voted on the bills." So, what is the name of the "model bill" this time around?

The Trojan Horse: The "Environmental Literacy Improvement Act" The Trojan Horse in this case is an Orwellian titled model bill, the "Environmental Literacy Improvement Act."[PDF]

The bill was adopted by ALEC's Natural Resources Task Force, today known as the Energy, Environment and Agriculture Task Force, at ALEC's Spring Task Force Summit on May 5, 2000 — it was then approved by the full ALEC Board of Directors in June of 2000.

The bill's opening clause reads [PDF], "The purpose of this act is to enhance and improve the environmental literacy of students and citizens in the state by requiring that all environmental education programs and activities conducted by schools, universities, and agencies shall…"

Among other things, the bill stipulates that schools, universities and agencies should,

"Provide a range of perspectives presented in a balanced manner." "Provide instruction in critical thinking so that students will be able to fairly and objectively evaluate scientific and economic controversies." "Be presented in language appropriate for education rather than for propagandizing." "Encourage students to explore different perspectives and form their own opinions." "Encourage an atmosphere of respect for different opinions and open-mindedness to new ideas." "Not be designed to change student behavior, attitudes or values." "Not include instruction in political action skills nor encourage political action activities." How does this language compare with legislation passed or proposed in various states? A review is in order.

ALEC Bills: From Model to Reality The "Environmental Literacy Improvement Act," or at minimum, the crucial language found within it, has been proposed in seven states, and passed in three states, Louisiana in 2008, Texas in 2009 and South Dakota in 2010.

Louisiana

In 2008, the Louisiana state legislature introduced and eventually passed S.B. 733, the Louisiana Science and Education Act. The bill was originally sponsored by four members of the Senate, three of whom are current dues paying members of ALEC: Sen. Ben Wayne Nevers, Sr. (D-12); Sen. Neil Riser (R-32); and Sen. Francis Thompson (D-34).

The three ALEC members received a total of $9,514 from the oil and gas industry in the 2008 and 2010 election cycles in campaign money combined, and the four of them together received $13,814 in campaign cash from the oil and gas industry, according to the National Institute on Money in State Politics' FollowTheMoney.org.

ALEC Model vs. S.B. 733

The Louisiana bill calls for, "an environment within public elementary and secondary schools that promotes critical thinking skills, logical analysis, and open and objective discussion of scientific theories being studied including…global warming…" The bill also calls for "instructional materials to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review scientific theories in an objective manner."

This bill mirrors the provisions of the ALEC bill which say that teachers should "provide instruction in critical thinking so that students will be able to fairly and objectively evaluate scientific…controversies," and mandates that "balanced and objective environmental education materials and programs will…be used."

South Dakota

In 2010, the South Dakota Legislative Assembly passed House Concurrent Resolution 1009, a non-binding resolution introduced by 33 members of the House of Representatives and 6 members of the Senate, 39 in total, and 12 of whom are current members of ALEC. The bill calls for "balanced teaching of global warming in the public schools of South Dakota."

The 12 members of ALEC who sponsored HCR 1009 received $1,900 from the oil and gas industry in the 2008 and 2010 election cycles combined, according to FollowTheMoney.org.

The bill mirrors the provision of the ALEC bill that call for the providing of "a range of perspectives presented in a balanced manner."

Kentucky

In 2010, the Kentucky state legislature proposed H.B. 397, the Kentucky Science Education and Intellectual Freedom Act, a bill that eventually failed to pass.

The bill was co-sponsored by two members of the Kentucky House of Representatives who were not members of ALEC, but one of whom, Tim Moore (R-26), took $3,000 from the oil and gas industry in the 2008 and 2010 campaign cycles combined, according to the National Institute on Money in State Politics.

ALEC Model vs. HB 397

Two key provisions of the H.B. 397 "encourage local district teachers and administrators to foster an environment promoting objective discussion of the advantages and disadvantages of scientific theories" and "allow teachers to use, as permitted by the local board of education, materials in addition to state-approved texts and instructional materials for discussion of scientific theories including…global warming…"

This bill mirrors major provisions of the ALEC model bill that say teachers should "provide instruction in critical thinking so that students will be able to fairly and objectively evaluate scientific…controversies," and mandates that "balanced and objective environmental education materials and programs will…be used."

New Mexico

In 2011, ALEC member, Rep. Thomas A. Anderson, introduced H.B. 302. In the 2008 and 2010 campaign cycles, he raised $2,650, according to the National Institute on Money in State Politics' campaign finance database.

ALEC Model vs. H.B. 302

H.B. 302 says that schools shall "not prohibit any teacher, when a controversial scientific topic is being taught in accordance with adopted standards and curricula, from informing students about relevant scientific information regarding either the scientific strengths or scientific weaknesses pertaining to that topic." One "controversial scientific topic" listed is the "causes of climate change."

This bill mirrors the provisions of the ALEC model bill which call for teaching "a range of perspectives presented in a balanced manner," teaching "different perspectives" to allow for students to "form their own opinions," and creating an "atmosphere of respect for different opinions and open-mindedness to new ideas."

Tennessee

Tennessee's House bill, H.B. 368, essentially a replica of the ALEC model bill, overwhelmly passed the House in April 2011, but its Senate-version cousin, S.B. 893, failed to pass. As the Los Angeles Times article makes clear, efforts to push the bill through are far from over.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17442) 2 years ago

Key clauses of that bill read,

"[T]eachers shall be permitted to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories covered in the course being taught." "[P]ublic elementary and secondary schools…[should]…respond appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about controversial issues." These excerpts match, almost to a "T," bullet points one, three and four of the ALEC model bill.

Nine of the 24 co-sponsors of the H.B. 368 are ALEC members, according to CMD's ALEC Members database.

In addition, these nine ALEC member co-sponsors received $8,695 in campaign contributions from the oil and gas industry combined in the 2008 and 2010 campaign cycles, according to FollowTheMoney.org. The other 15 sponsors of the bill, while not members of ALEC, received $10,400 in their campaign cofffers in the 2008 and 2010 campaign cycles combined.

S.B. 893, on the other hand, was sponsored by Sen. Bo Watson (R-11), a recipient of $1,800 in oil and gas industry money in the 2008 and 2010 election cycles combined.

Translation: between the 25 of them, on top of a model bill handed to them by corporate oil and gas industry lobbyists, they were also furnished with $20,895 in campaign cash by these industries with the expectation to do their legislative bidding.

Oklahoma

Titled, the “Scientific Education and Academic Freedom Act,” H.B. 1551 is also essentially a copycat of Tennessee's version of the ALEC model bill — it failed to pass. A Senate version of that bill, S.B. 320, was also proposed in 2009, but failed to pass through committee.

Key clauses of that bill read (emphases mine),

"[T]eachers shall be permitted to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories pertinent to the course being taught." "[N]o student in any public school or institution shall be penalized in any way because the student may subscribe to a particular position on scientific theories." Notice how the first bullet is exactly the same in both the Tennessee and Oklahoma bills — also notice how similar bullet number two is in both language and substance in both states' bills.

Rep. Sally Kern (R-84), sponsor of H.B. 1551, is a member of ALEC, according to CMD. She received $12,335 from the oil and gas industry in the 2008 and 2010 election cycles, in total, according to FollowTheMoney.org. Sen. Randy Brogdon (R-34), sponsor of S.B. 320, while not a member of ALEC, received $22,967 from the oil and gas industry while running and losing for Governor of Oklahoma in 2010, according to FollowTheMoney.org.

On the whole, sponsors and co-sponsors from the six states in which the ALEC bill was proposed were recipients of $44,409 in campaign money from the oil and gas industry, a miniscule down payment for some of the most lucrative corporations known in the history of mankind.

Texas Texas, in this case, is a bit of a wild card. Rather than a bill proposed by a state legislature, in 2009, the Texas School Board passed an amendent calling for the "balanced" teaching of climate change, meaning both science and "skepticism."

The Austin Statesman explained,

"The State Board of Education…adopted standards on the teaching of global warming that appear to both question its existence and prod students to explore its implications. Standards are used to guide textbook makers and teachers. Language…instructed students to 'analyze and evaluate different views on the existence of global warming,'"… This provision mirrors and is likely inspired by the ALEC model bill provision on global warming, which suggested science teachers should "Provide a range of perspectives presented in a balanced manner."

A Bill In the Corporate Polluter's Interest The money paper trail for this ALEC model bill runs deep, to put it bluntly.

When the ALEC model bill was adopted in 2000 by ALEC's Natural Resources Task Force, the head of that committee was Sandy Liddy Bourne, who after that stint, became Director of Legislation and Policy for ALEC. She is now with the Heartland Institute as vice-president for policy strategy. In Sandy Liddy Bourne's bio on the Heartland website, she boasts that "Under her leadership, 20 percent of ALEC model bills were enacted by one state or more, up from 11 percent."

SourceWatch states that Liddy Bourne "…is the daughter of former Nixon aide and convicted Watergate criminal G. Gordon Liddy, who spent more than 52 months in prison for his part in the Watergate burglary…[and her] speech at the Heartland Institute's 2008 International Conference on Climate Change was titled, 'The Kyoto Legacy; The Progeny of a Carbon Cartel in the States."

The Heartland Institute was formerly heavily funded by ExxonMobil and Koch Industries, just like ALEC was at the time that Liddy Bourne's committee devised the "Environmental Literacy Improvement Act." These two corporations are infamous for their funding of climate change "skeptic" think tanks and front groups.

Today, the corporate polluter members of ALEC's Energy, Environment and Agriculture Task Force include representatives from American Electric Power, the Fraser Institute, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, the Institute for Energy Research, the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, the Heartland Institute, and the American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity, to name several.

Getting Them While They're Young: A Cynical Maneuver In the United States, the politics of big-money backed disinformation campaigns have trumped climate science, and serves as the raison d'être for DeSmogBlog. Polluters with a financial interest in continuing to conduct business without any accountability for their global warming pollution have purposely sowed the seeds of confusion on an issue seen as completely uncontroversial among scientists.

Maneuvering to dupe schoolchildren is about as cynical as it gets. Neuroscience explains that young brains are like sponges, ready to soak in knowledge (and disinformation, for that matter), and thus, youth are an ideal target for the "merchants of doubt."

The corporations behind the writing and dissemination of this ALEC model bill, who are among the largest polluters in the world, would benefit handsomly from a legislative mandate to sow the seeds of confusion on climate science among schoolchildren.

Alas, at the very least, the identity of the Trojan Horse has been revealed: it's name is ALEC.

*Sorry Alec Baldwin, this isn't about you, please resume your Words With Friends. This ALEC is far more scandalous.

**Full Disclosure: At the time of the ALEC Exposed project's public release in mid-2011, Steve Horn was an employee of Center for Media and Democracy.

RELATED COMPANIES: American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity , American Electric Power, Americans for Prosperity, Chevron, Duke Energy, ExxonMobil, Koch Industries, Peabody Energy, Royal Dutch Shell, Southern Company KNOWN ASSOCIATES: Charles Koch, David Koch, Stephen Miller TAGS: ALEC, alec baldwin, ALEC Exposed, American Electric Power, American Legislative Exchange Council, cato institute, center for media and democracy, Climate Science Climate Change, competitive enterprise institute, desmogblog, ExxonMobil, Front Group, heartland institute, institute for energy research, Kentucky, koch industries, LA Times, lobbying, Los Angeles Times, louisiana, mackinac center, neela banerjee, New Mexico, oklahoma, sandy liddy bourne, South Dakota, steve horn, Tennessee, texas

http://www.polluterwatch.com/blog/alec-model-bill-behind-push-require-climate-denial-instruction-schools

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34858) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Shout it to the World!

The truth shall set you free!

[-] -1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

ALEC's mission statement describes the organization's purpose as the advancement of free-market principles, limited government, federalism, and individual liberty.

The Center for American Progress is a progressive[ public policy research and advocacy organization. Its website states that the organization is "dedicated to improving the lives of Americans through progressive ideas and action."Center for American Progress Action Fund

Formerly known simply as the American Progress Action Fund, the Center for American Progress Action Fund is a "sister advocacy organization" and is organizationally and financially separate from the Center for American Progress, although they share many staff and a physical address. Whereas the Center for American Progress is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the fund is a 501(c)(4), allowing it to devote more funds to lobbying.[16] In 2003, George Soros promised to financially support the organization by donating up to three million dollars.[17]

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17442) 2 years ago

Just so we are clear. You brought me information from Corsons.org.

Information regarding the Corsons: John and Janice Corson are both natives of the Hampton Roads Virginia area. Their life's interests are varied.

John hails from Newport News, Janice from Chesapeake. Although educated in colleges and graduates schools with degrees in Biblical Literature and Theology, John continued to continue his schooling with studies in sociology, cultural issues, political science and economics.

Janice attended Tidewater Community College and studied music. She has also been educated in the field of agricultural science and horticulture through the Cooperative Extension Service of Virginia Tech University and is a certified Master Gardener. Her interest in landscape architecture and gardening goes back to her childhood, having helped her parents in their vegetable garden. She expanded her love for this hobby by becoming a specialist with roses, flowerbeds and vegetable gardens. She has been a contributor to newsletters and local newspapers as a gardener tipster.

John's background was in radio broadcasting, having worked in this field for over fifteen years. His real-life calling was to the ministry. He served as a pastor for Christian and Baptist churches for over 24 years. He has made a hobby as a political pundit. He is a member of the American Conservative Union and the Federalist Society.

1980 was a transformative year for the Corsons. It was the year of Ronald Reagan's election to the White House and also a year in which they were living in Maryland on less than $8000 a year. John made the conscientious decision to work as many jobs as necessary so as not to live off of taxpayers and be dependent on the government. They, then declared themselves to be Reagan conservatives. It is to the memory of Ronald Reagan that they dedicate this website.


And then let's have a look see at that David Harowitz who cowrote that book: http://mediamatters.org/research/201010110011

Really?????????????????????

Are you kidding me?

ALEC is currently involved in legislation that is privatizing prisons. And the best that you can bring is a little bit on Center for American Progress? REALLY????

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

And what is the Center for American Progress involved in? Or dig a bit deeper, what is the history of George Sorros?

And Media Matters? You mean the tax exempt organization that seeks to hire private investigators to dig up "dirt" on the employees of Fox News - even the ones who do the grunt work in order to destroy them? The ones who have attempted to bring back the "black listing" of the McCarthy era?

http://news.yahoo.com/media-matters-memo-called-hiring-private-investigators-look-035120386.html

"“Simply put,” Frisch wrote, “the progressive movement is in need of an enemy. George W. Bush is gone. We really don’t have John McCain to kick around any more. Filling the lack of leadership on the right, Fox News has emerged as the central enemy and antagonist of the Obama administration, our Congressional majorities and the progressive movement as a whole.”

“We must take Fox News head-on in a well funded, presidential-style campaign to discredit and embarrass the network, making it illegitimate in the eyes of news consumers.”

http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/media-matters-memos-reveal-a-circus-of-conspiracy-collusion-with-msm-and-david-brocks-meltdowns/

"Founded by Brock in 2004 as a liberal counterweight to “conservative misinformation” in the press, Media Matters has in less than a decade become a powerful player in Democratic politics. The group operates in regular coordination with the highest levels of the Obama White House, as well as with members of Congress and progressive groups around the country. Brock, who collected over $250,000 in salary from Media Matters in 2010, has himself become a major fundraiser on the left. According to an internal memo obtained by TheDC, Media Matters intends to spend nearly $20 million in 2012 to influence news coverage."

Shall we continue this? Or will you admit that "dirt" can be found on both sides of this and that all of them are spinning the truth? I mean, isn't one of the claims you all make is that you KNOW you are being "lied" to by the media and the establishment of the 1%?

[-] -2 points by newman (-58) 2 years ago

blah blah blah cut and paste loser

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

perhaps the link below will help to inform you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html

[-] -3 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

How shocking! A negative story about the tea party coming from liberal, Broadway critic Frank Rich. Would you really expect a glowing review of the TP from a vocal supporter of Obama and the democrats?

You have to look at the media source before believing it. He makes his living carrying water for our 1 party system. Can't you see that? Why can't you see that?

[-] 2 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

is there a link between the tp and the koch bros.?

[-] 0 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

rayl, there is a link between them in the same way there is a link between George Sorros (convicted of weakening and collapsing at least one national economy and accused of "breaking the bank of England") and OWS.

George Sorros funds organizations that are funding/supporting certain aspects of OWS.

The Koch brothers fund organizations that have funded/supported certain aspects of the Tea Party.

[-] -2 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

There's as much of a link to the tp and Koch bros as there is between Clear Channel Radio and the Texas republican who put SOPA/PIPA in a bill.

There's as much of a link to the TP and Koch bros as there is between Goldman Sachs and Obama who has received more money from GS than any other politician. Opensecrets.org

The TP did not become because of koch bros money. Tens of thousands sprung up across the country within a few months. There was no money involved.

[-] 2 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

Why do you say that it is mathematically impossible for taxing the rich to fix the problems we have. Which problems do you mean? If it is about the national debt, well if 1% of the people own 40% of the wealth, seems they could pay off the national debt today and still have change left over.

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

Not according to the non-partisan Tax Foundation.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/27547.html

"So taking half of the yearly income from every person making between one and ten million dollars would only decrease the nation's debt by 1%. Even taking every last penny from every individual making more than $10 million per year would only reduce the nation's deficit by 12 percent and the debt by 2 percent. There's simply not enough wealth in the community of the rich to erase this country's problems by waving some magic tax wand.

Finally, to put everything in perspective, think about what would need to be done to erase the federal deficit this year: After everyone making more than $200,000/year has paid taxes, the IRS would need to take every single penny of disposable income they have left. Such an act would raise approximately $1.53 trillion. It may be economically ruinous, but at least this proposal would actually solve the problem."

[-] 0 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

Who do we really owe this money too?, can we just not pay China?

[-] 2 points by NewlyEconGradurate (4) 2 years ago

I believe in taxing the rich, not so much by raising tax rate, but by simplifying the tax code and fixing the loopholes so the rich actually pays the amount they were legally intended to pay. The rampant tax evasions and frauds need to be addressed if we want to talk about who should pay what meaningfully.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

The people that go around calling the tea party a bunch of racists and post pics of the KKK are no different than the clowns that call OWS a bunch of dirty hippy commies. It's ignorant to do both.

I find it very easy to disagree with a lot about the tea party, but resorting to name calling and avoiding facts is ridiculous. You can find a video of a commie and a hippy in OWS and I can find a video of a racist in the tea party. Does not mean that represents the whole group. So to make such a claim is absurd.

What are your thoughts about the Koch brothers and American's for Prosperity?

At first I liked the tea party, with it's origins, protesting the bailouts. But then it seemed to take a wicked turn and got hijacked by the GOP and it got too religious as well. And when it opposed universal healthcare in a ridiculous manner, oppose it all you want, I just found the rhetoric to be ridiculous, that was the icing on the cake.

The tea party needs to denounce the GOP and I would have no problem with them.

I wish the tea party stood for what you're saying, but to me it does not seem that way. Either that or they are constantly duped by the people they elect.

Austerity measures are not the way to go. Different paths should be taken.

What are your thoughts on the Federal Reserve and credit rating institutions that threaten our nations sovereignty? Obviously you are aware of the credit rating effect on Greece and you are probably aware of the people's reactions to such drastic cuts.

What if I were to tell you that you and I could both get our way? Have you heard of Dennis Kucnich's HR 2990, the NEED Act? This bill would allow us to support a full employment economy and restore constitutional authority over the monetary system and cut the debt and we would not need "foreign aid" from China. This would also allow us to reduce income taxes.

Dennis is known for speaking out against both sides of the political spectrum. My favorite Dennis quote:: "Is this the US congress or the board of director's meeting for Goldman Sachs?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YimTs6Q_xD0

Dennis opposes the wars, the federal reserve, the patriot act, and anything else that violates our liberties... but he also wants to help the people in our nation and make it prosper.

HR 2990:: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h112-2990

Fed creates 7.7 trillion from nothing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1dkZShYP78

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

The tea party was republicans who were so freaked out at a black president and dems having a majority they suffered a group brain stroke. They were humiliated by having supported bush for two terms, and their reps in congress shut them out as they pursued their own personal agendas to gain wealth. Their inability to understand political ideologies has them in constant fear, as well as their fear of becoming a minority. They refuse to consider any information as true unless it came from rush or fox news.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Look up the actual start of the tea party protests.

[-] -3 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

The Koch bros. mean nothing to me, nor 99% of the TP. Might as well be the Mario Bros. I've been a member of 2 Tea Party Patriot groups in my area of Northern California since they began. Since the very first meetings, the Koch bros. were NEVER brought up even once, nor were any directives outside of our meetings, nor any funding from outside sources. All internal donations from our neighbors. Perhaps the Koch bros. donated a large amount of money to various groups, but that had nothing to do with over 80 elected officials being thrown out in the 2010 elections. This was achieved by tens of thousands of small Tea Party's mobilizing at the polls.

Also, where did the misconception start that the TP has a social agenda, such as pushing religion? Abortion, condoms, religion, it's not talked about at Tea Party's. Maybe individual members talk about it to each other, but meeting minutes don't include; Religion talk, birth control, gays in the military. I'm sorry to break the news to you, there's NO SOCIAL AGENDA. It's 100% about ridding the government of corruption. However slow of a process that will be.

I don't believe the Federal Reserve acts in the free markets best interests, although I haven't seen a comparable system explained well either.

And I like Dennis and what he says in these quotes.

Doesn't it make you sad when you see so many members here at OWS forum carry water for the dems? And the repubs too. I read posts like yours and a glimmer of hope emerges, but when I head back to the main page and see the scrolling numbskulls bashing one side or the other, my hope fades.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

Yes, it makes me sad to see anyone supporting either of the corrupt parties. It may be that the misconceptions about the Tea Party are Dem talking points. I think we actually have some important common interests and I think nothing would scare the corrupt politicians more than seeing an Occupy/Tea Party alliance. How can we do that?

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

That's what I've been saying since my first post on here. The way to do it is OWS needs specific goals. Every tea party in the country follows 3 core beliefs; Limited Government, adhering to the constitution, and letting the free market thrive with responsible government oversight. That's it. There is NOTHING else. It's been that way from the beginning. OWS should have one or two goals, and stop talking about anything else. If the one goal was to get money out of politics, or reinstate Glass-Stegall. I'm not sure what, but I believe that's what needs to happen

[-] 1 points by RedSkyMorning (220) 2 years ago

I worked on a campaign for the Tea Party. They are good people with good intentions. As a grassroots movement, and we will suffer this too!!!, they lack the ability to properly vet candidates. The candidate that gained the most support was an ex-banker from a bailed out New York bank! He was very handsome, but one of his major platforms was to fight banking reforms. So be careful. The 1% can easily capture these movements, no matter how pure your intentions. But I welcome Tea Party member to our movement to add ideas.

[-] 1 points by Umair (24) 2 years ago

You're right. We do need to control our spending. We shouldn't support those who have the ability to take care of themselves for long. We should provide free sterilizations to those that want it because it saves everybody money in the long-run. You can't argue with that fact. Second we need to drastically cut military spending over the next 10-years. The estate tax needs to be 55% unless a person's wealth is given to charitable causes. This passing on the wealth is how the feudal system worked. So we don't need to raise the taxes on the income someone makes, but having a minimum tax for those making a $1 million or more isn't absurd by any measure. If someone making 5% of that could be paying nearly the same rate, there is something statistically wrong there. You do realize that don't you?

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

This Higgens fellow has the teabaggers number.

Wankers, whipping up fear........:)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101713520

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

It is interesting to see what a tea party member sees as his/her ideology. From the outside, the tea party appears to have a hatred of obama based on the color of his skin. It also is responsible for the election of social conservatives who have done nothing but attack homosexuals, women, immigrants, the poor, and African Americans. They are anti regulaion, which would have helped the situation that caused the economic collapse, and anti union, which is just another way of saying, "I have mine, so f--k my neighbors". They rallied around Sarah Palin, who is a hateful, spiteful, glory hound, money grubbing, quitter. They think anyone who is not one of them is an anti american traitor. They tend to name call, especially socialist, or facist, but seem to be too uneducated to know the difference. Keep your tea, I like coffee...

[-] 1 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

You can look at it like this, we are on the verge of economic and environmental collapse, We at OWS realize something is terribly wrong and wish to stop it or change things... The tea bagger's figure fuck it nobody will listen or change anyways, so fuck it every man for himself, head up hill, north, and pass the ammo... Optimist - Pessimist reminds me of that song "its the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine..."

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

Astute observation!

[-] 0 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

TY, in the search for knowledge and enlightenment one seeks the truth, to ease the suffering of others, and to deny ones base desires.

[-] -2 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Your so blind to your own racism. It's truly sad. Do you know that it's racist to judge a person by the color of their skin? Why do you judge Obama by the color of his skin? Why do so many libs/dems constantly bring up Obama's color?

Why are you so racist? What happened to you poor child, that threw you so far off course from reality?

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

Are you high? The first sentence states this is the beliefs of the tea party based upon their observable behaviors. I am white with a very slight bias against whites. Probably because I am surrounded by white racist republicans, and republicans turned tea partiers...

[-] -2 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

How can you speak of tea party beliefs when you hate them so much? You have no first hand experience what it's like to believe as a tea party tea member does. Your only experiences are the warped views you see on MSNBC.

The first sentence of your posts discusses Obama's skin color. That's where it stops with you. You see Obama's skin color. The Tea Party doesn't. True TP members see his failed policies.

I really try not to suffer fools like you this often, but I gotta tell you Faith, it's getting so hard to find anyone reasonable on here, that I have to stoop down into the gutter some days.

[-] 1 points by Faithntruth (997) 2 years ago

You are high. As I said, I know what I know from personal experience locally, as well as seeing reports from around the country that demonstrated behavioral consistency with my personal observations.

Since you clearly can't read, I will not respond to again. Goodbye.

[-] 1 points by shooz (18019) 2 years ago

Teabaggers raised my taxes. that's all I need to know about that bunch of (R)epelican't liars.

Plus they HATE the constitution, and democracy, and anything else that get in the way of their agenda to hand the country over to the Kochs.

I have faith in the simple fact that they are lying jerks.

Looks like you could use a bit of that faith yourself.

[-] 1 points by GildasSapiens (266) 2 years ago

Wow! It DID just dawn on me what the Tea Party is:

Romney Campaign Memo: The Koch Brothers Are The ‘Financial Engine Of The Tea Party’ http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/11/03/360433/romney-koch-tea-party/

The Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Party http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?pagewanted=all

Tea Party movement: Billionaire Koch brothers who helped it grow http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/13/tea-party-billionaire-koch-brothers

...it's a front for the worst plutocrats & oligarchs among the 1%, & it stands for kleptocracy & enslavement of the 99%!

[-] -3 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

You're quoting liberal, democratic sources! You are so far beyond help and reasoning, it's not worth the time explaining to you how the media works.

[-] 4 points by GildasSapiens (266) 2 years ago

"You're quoting liberal, democratic sources" - cos, of course, conservative, anti-democratic sources are really keen to publicize this - NOT!

Here are a few more democratic sources, for people who love democracy, & hate the 1%'s campaign to destroy it & steal all wealth & power for themselves:

The Tea Party Movement: Who's In Charge? http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/04/the-tea-party-movement-whos-in-charge/13041/

"Tea Party" @ Sourcewatch http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tea_Party

Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/Peter-Fenn/2011/02/02/tea-party-funding-koch-brothers-emerge-from-anonymity

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 2 years ago

mediaauditr-- "We are living through a Kleptocracy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy a form of political and government corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense of the wider population"

Did it ever occur to you that it is actually a lot worse than that for some of the weathiest and some of government? That there is an agenda that includes what you say, but endeavors to appear as you say because the truth is so much worse.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

I tend to agree with what you're saying. You're getting too caught up in semantics. I'd say the definition of kleptocracy encompasses our problem quite well. It's 'down to earth' enough that it doesn't sound like a ridiculous conspiracy theory, yet it can 'as worse' as you can imagine it to be.

But yes, it occurs to me everyday that it's much worse than some of the wealthiest and some government

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 2 years ago

I think you are beginning to see the position I'm taking. Avarice is much less damming than conducting things like 9-11 for instance, although lots of complicity could be gained by enabling avarice, and those complicit need not know the master plan.

I do not refute that we are being ruled by a Kleptocracy, but I assert it is much worse and that is being carefully obscured and hidden.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

I see your position. Would subscribe to this theory about our government?

We have had a one party system. Both sides bicker, snide an sneer at each other in public, but behind closed doors both have the same goal. To maintain the delicate charade that they really care which party is in power. As long as we are blind to their corruption, they obtain more personal wealth.

Throwing out ALL incumbents in November is the only way to send a message that the people are done with the corruption. Even if we toss out a few good ones with the bad, we must achieve 100%, to send the message that the people have a voice.

We also need a 3rd party national voting registrar, conducted by a jury of our peers to verify the government run polls. Every voter must also cast his/her vote on a website run by an independent 'jury' of people picked from each state. This is critical. The company that calculates our voting results resides in Spain for Christ sake. Voting fraud run by our government could be rampant. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3489877.stm

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 2 years ago

The company that counts our votes is in Spain!!

mediaauditr, that is right on. Good structure, just no clear plan for gaining the authority to do it. This is something everyone should know, mind boggling

This is critical. The company that calculates our voting results resides in Spain for Christ sake. Voting fraud run by our government could be rampant.

Have you checked out the Article V group? They have something to deal with that.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Thanks red. I'll look into the Article V. I'm just happy someone else on here see's that mass corruption that is taking place within our government. The EPA1's, zen dogs and others on here don't have a fucking clue whats going on

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 2 years ago

I've been tracking down links here and sussing out the Article V groups. This forum has the only comprehensive planning.

http://articlevconvention.org

The threads about preparation for an Article V really do make a lot of sense even if we weren't doing Article V. A new line of thinking appears to be coming from there about "constittuional intent". Apparently the people are the only ones that can provide it.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

How long did it take you guys to figure out we were headed for an economic collapse? You don't need any math to see the massive debt we have. You don't need to know any math to understand how (Spending more money that the government doesn't actually own).

[-] 0 points by DevilDog420 (133) from Saratoga Springs, NY 2 years ago

True economic collapse is imminent. But the scary thing is that the rich, and captains of industry have not moved in the direction best for the country, but in the direction of lining their multinational pockets. More debt not good, more profits for the rich not good, We are on the edge of a cliff... People need to repent and change there ways before.... well we'll see? wont we, God save our children.

[-] 1 points by forourfutures (393) 2 years ago

There is a need to focus on preservation of the Constitution. Just because our government has not been constitutional for 140 years, doesn't mean we can give up on it and expect our children to have anything, even freedom.

I've found the most common sense proposals using the constitution, Article V, to force the US government to change, to get it back to what we need Here.

http://articlevconvention.org.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Not so much the math I figured out, but in finding the words to describe my beliefs to my friends/family in a non threatening way.

[-] 1 points by randart (498) 2 years ago

And just what would your solution be? You can talk all you want about how much the world is going to hell but remember that you are driving on roads built by "the government" unless you go in circles in a parking lot.

So, proud Tea Party guy, what are the solutions? I really want tot know what your vision would be for our future. Tell it loud from the mountain, tells us all where YOU will take the rest of us into the future.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

When the November ballot comes, instead of discussing the most effective way to conduct a human megaphone, every thread on here should be about WHO would make a responsible representative. And if they are all equally corrupt, then vote out ALL incumbents to send the message that you are tired of the current batch of corrupt officials, and you're going to keep voting them out until they put the country's interests first.

That's what made the TP so effective, and affected change in 2010 that hasn't been seen in over 3 decades. Neighbors got together and discussed representatives.

[-] 1 points by randart (498) 2 years ago

The real fact is that EVERYONE who finds their way to entanglement within this power structure fails. Keep voting the incumbents out and we end up with a group of people who run this massive country with no experience. That coupled with a narrow view of what might really be going on could spell even greater disaster than what we have now.

NO TAXES! a rally cry commonly held up by some to gather numbers and fill their ranks. Fine, but who will maintain infrastructure and keep the security viable?

I recently watched one of the Tea Party folks who was voted into office, sorry I can't remember his name, and he was laughing at his constituents when being asked about some of his votes. It all looked to me like a case of "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." to me.

[-] 0 points by Concerned (455) 2 years ago

Who says "NO TAXES"?

I've heard "No NEW Taxes" and "Taxed Enough Already" in response to what? TARP and the Stimulus.

Funny, but the only place I ever read "NO TAXES" is when a liberal or progressive tries to spin what the Tea Party and the GOP (as separate entities just as OWS is allegedly separate from the DNC) are saying.

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

I'd rather have people who had no political experience, but some common sense, over people who are "career politicians." Nevertheless, that particular experiment has not been tried. Maybe we should see how something like that plays out?

Find a hometown hero. A hard-working, average Joe with above-average intelligence. Get him or her to run for office, and see what happens. I doubt that we really need a bunch of lawyers and PhDs in office when some common sense will do.

[-] 1 points by strivehappy (31) 2 years ago

OP, I absolutely agree with your assessment of the Tea Party. Let's remember how and when the Tea Party started before the media bastardized it and that brought along a lot of other undesirable 'right wingers' that were more about social conservatism and religion.

If you want to know the origins of the Tea Party back in 2007, look no further than this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?260559-How-the-Tea-Party-movement-came-to-be&highlight=tea+party

That's right, Ron Paul supporters! So if any one claims to be 'Tea Party' yet disagrees with RP, they're seriously confused.

And let's not forget, the man who sparked Occupy also called for accountability of the Fed.

[-] 0 points by whelanator (0) 2 years ago

Occupy wall street, Tea Party, or just generally disgruntled American - we are all saying the same thing; The government are puppets controlled by interests other than our own and the 99% are getting screwed. If all of us spent half as much time working towards our common interest as we did trying to distinguish our selves we might have a chance to change the current situation. I can understand why the OWS movement is better off not supporting a political candidate (the tea party lost a lot of credibility by allowing itself to be hijacked by republicans) but OWS supporters would be crazy not to support Ron Paul.

[-] -1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Thank you whelan! You read into my post exactly as I had hoped. My goal is to show OWS folks on here who hate the TP for whatever reason, that there is no difference. Both party's have the same goal, to end the corruption in government.

[-] 0 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 2 years ago

You are making a lot of assumptions or even accusations about a very diverse group of people here who are constantly even disagreeing among themselves.

Most people here will agree with many of your points about what is wrong with America today, but see the Tea Party as mostly co-opted by the Republicans. If that's not true in your own case, then good for you.

And personally, I don't think that taxing the rich is the answer, as to how we should finance the rebuilding of our economy. Once all the fake money and insolvent firms are eliminated through Glass Steagall, I believe a National Bank should be opened once again to provide credit for economic development projects.

These projects would create more jobs and more business which would increase tax revenue without increasing the tax rate on individuals. If done right, they would improve the productivity of our economy as a whole, paying themselves off, and then some.

[-] -2 points by owsleader2013 (-1) 2 years ago

An OWS was co-opted back in Oct 2011 by the SEIU and DNC, ... so what? Does that make the OWS or TEA less relevant to pissed off citizens?

Let's get real the OWS is for the young, and the TEA is for the old, both groups are pissed.

But both groups are being played like a fiddle, as TEA and OWS are ran by the DHS/CIA.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

"It's mathematically impossible for taxing the rich to fix the problems we have."

NO it is not

[-] -1 points by survivor919 (-2) 2 years ago

I think this pretty much says it all even though I know most wont admit to it

http://www.flickr.com/photos/57856066@N02/6911791877/

[-] -1 points by forourfutures (393) 2 years ago

I really like this thread. It has such a pragmatic and accurate overview of the Tea Party and OWS, just in the effort to focus OWS!

Humbly I present that the Tea Party was really aware of the situation years before OWS was thought of, but the Tea Party was, as far as I can remember, steered away from the solution, Article V.

Sadly, as always, awareness of a problem, is not solution to it.

Can we really believe at this late date that there are people that believe there is notproblem? Or, that part of a solution to a significant problem is very likely also a solution to another equal or lessor?

[+] -4 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Thank you Foro, this has been my goal since day 1 of joining this forum. To fuse OWS and the TP together.

Unfortunately I've hit a lot of stumbling blocks. There are so many die-hard constituents on here, mostly dems, but cons too, who won't shut up about partisan BS. If you are a member of a TP and/or OWS, and do not believe both sides are equally corrupt, then you shouldn't call yourself a member.

The week OWS took form, I was glued to my internet streams and television. I was hoping for OWS to come out with some great goals and ideas. And they did. And my fellow tea partyer's didn't know what to think, remaining observant. Then 3 or 4 days in, MSNBC began contrasting it to the Tea Party, in a negative light. Then did FOX, and then a week later, many prominent dems began supporting it. All the while, the message was: this is anti-tea party.

There's no reason OWS and TP should not share the exact same goal. To end our current government corruption. There will always be corruption, but not to the level we see now.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17442) 2 years ago

This is why you are willing to go up against ALEC and the Koch brothers? http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/feb-29-occupy-protests-against-american-legislativ/

It is quite odd. You are never on those threads..............

I wonder why.

[-] -2 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

I'm never on those threads because the only time I've ever heard the name Koch bros. is when I'm flipping through the channels and land on MSNBC. I can tell you I've never even googled the koch bros to see what they look like?

Are they blood related brothers? Do they look alike?

[-] -2 points by FreeDiscussion4 (70) 2 years ago

Smaller mother government that will force grownups to wipe their own butts. Less taxes. Fewer services provided.

[-] -3 points by newman (-58) 2 years ago

Tea Party rocks