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Forum Post: Developed Cultures Respect Women?

Posted 3 years ago on Oct. 30, 2014, 8:04 a.m. EST by elf3 (3760)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

http://drkellyflanagan.com/2014/01/15/words-from-a-father-to-his-daughter-from-the-makeup-aisle/

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MhzhhYJPFEg

From WallStreet to the Street women are being reduced to sexual objects...is this the culture woman have fought so hard to have? How far have we come? Where are we going? We are not just window dressing for a male dominated world...we are thinking beings fighting our way to survival...to be stared at, and treated as though we are dogs in a dog show....judged for our every feature or defect and outward appearance for a mate's sexual approval and our breedability...is to disregard the fact that we are intelligent beings on equal footing with men. To see this in 2014 is disheartening. We need to curb this now. Commercials and videos have as thrusting our buts and breasts around joggling them as if to win a ribbon for the most fuckable...and man children on the streets are unable to separate the WallStreet illusion that all woman are here to service their sexual thoughts and whims instead of to live with autonomy and self actualization of their brains and being. This is not equality. WallStreet is creating this culture ...do we want to perpetuate it ? Think about your daughter and the world you would want for her. It is time to bring back feminism and female equality ...women are not your sweethearts. We aren't here for your pleasure. We aren't here just to breed as government would seem to also believe...giving women who do a way to upward mobility, access to higher education, and support....where the woman who chooses to abstain from children faces lower wages, job stagnation, and an education gap. Then forced to be dominated by male bosses and co workers who reduce her to the same...window dressing in their workplace...the underlings who service them and make their coffee and are told to smile and look pretty. Or in retail where they are paid less than their male counterparts in places like WalMart. Waitresses must endure the worst being treated slightly better than hookers who must smile to earn your cash, make two dollars an hour with no benefits and have no union to represent them. It always amazes me that a garbage guy makes 70,000 to pick up trash...(more than or around the same as most nurses who have college degrees and must pay back student loans to boot).

How many men are told to smile at work on a daily basis? I guess they are allowed to display a neutral face where we must contort ours to look pleasant and kind...slightly perked and puckered...ready to smile if not already and express benevolance and approachability in our eyes and body language. Forget your tension headache or migraine or concentration on your work...it is apparently far more important to look pretty and pleasant than to do a good job. Women also need to do their part not to condone and perpetuate sexism...to stop violently competing with and bullying underlings...we need to lift and support one another. To do otherwise is giving in to the idea that underneath it all we must compete for fuckability and male judgement. And if we do need to do this succeed..then our reaction should be outrage and opposition to the culture creating the rules not degrade ourselves and adhere to it. If you are threatened by a subordinates good looks...then how far have women really come? It says a lot.

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21 Comments


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[-] 7 points by elf3 (3760) 3 years ago

Sexism translations:

Smile: look more like you want to fuck me

What's wrong?: Smile or I think you wontwant to fuck me

Woman to woman " that is a pretty shirt": I feel threatened so I'm reducing you to your clothing

Male boss"You look pretty or nice": remember I'm the boss and if you want to keep your job you should project yourself like I might get some so I can fantasize and keep my delusions of grandeur.

Sweatheart: always remember I'm in charge of you and smarter (said either by man or woman)

Woman" you are sooo skinny": reduces you down to size and implies you use your looks as a sexual advantage to get by

Men lip licking staring and glaring: I want to live someplace where woman are subservient and turned into sex slaves and prostitutes and that is the only way they can survive...also be aware they are mentally pulling out their penis for you to suck.

[-] 2 points by pigeonlady (284) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

Wow. That last paragraph is the way almost any woman in NYC get treated every day. I don't want to reiterate the agitation I posted, but you know the majority of guys doing that don't get prosecuted, all they need are a few buddies, or to use the 'she misunderstood' tactic, or say they heard about her, or she wants him, or.... Usually the police say they have to see it too or nothing will happen. Unless the guy is black and the woman white and it happens on a subway with 50 witnesses, then sometimes they go after them. The sad thing is there are nice guys, but they don't hang out and do that crap so we don't know they're there.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (22801) 3 years ago

The introduction of Christianity to the Western world during Late Antiquity has loads to do with how women are objectified today.

I highly recommend one of my very favorite history books, "Late Antiquity" by the great historian, Peter Brown.

http://www.abebooks.com/Late-Antiquity-Peter-Brown-Harvard-University/11568168500/bd?cm_mmc=gmc-_-gmc-_-PLA-_-v01

It is a short essay that explores the changes that Christianity brought to the way people viewed their own bodies and others. The more repressed sexually society became, the more objectification you ended up with.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5051) 3 years ago

Women provide the foundation for all human civilizations and hold our world together. Women must attain the place in the sun, to be loved, cherished, and respected, developed cultures or otherwise.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (3760) 3 years ago

Women are just like everyone else...if I had more physical strength and stronger bone structure I would be less fearful of a male dominated society. We can unfortunately be dominated not just for that lack of strength but because we are reduced to something less than . When we are reduced to our sexuality and fragility and more important our emotions and empathy...it gives others consent to dominate us. There is a message when sex sells the underlying message is that women are for sale. That reduces our dignity and gives consent for those who would subserviate women. The notion that women are for sale, different, or less than gives a go ahead to take advantage by physical strength or by old boys networks to keep us from being truly equal. I think the old hormonal jokes and perception that we are inherently unstable has run its course...it is perpetuated in an effort to make women less than...to keep us reliant, subserviant, and reduce us to our sexual primal function. To take us out of that would take away the notion we are here for male pleasure and to offer our orifices for service. In all that sports locker banter, male boardroom boys club chatter, husbands ball and chain lodge razzing, lies deep damaging propaganda. And that is that women are truly only good for one thing ...sexual release. The societal semen receptacle. I hear sooo much discussion of inequality and every day I endure commercials and propaganda that is so degrading to women I can't believe we have come so little in this day and age. It's not surprising we are still fighting for equal pay and for a place in the workforce. Wall Street still has us half nude climbing on cars shoveling giant hamburgers in our mouths boobs filling up the shot. Positively devoid of dignity...What is the message in that?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 3 years ago

I believe that women and men are built physically a bit different so any society needs to recognize that. For example, women should get more toilets because after most functions we see man partners hovering near women's toilets' exits because there was a traffic congestion for the women. Being different does NOT preclude fairness. It makes NO sense that women are paid so much less than men for doing exactly the same job.

Women have power, too. Sex sells so the flip side is that no sex for the businesses busts their sales. Women boycotting sexually charged tasks will effectively bust the businesses. There is also a demand side approach. Train men to be respectful towards women. Mothers can be far less enamored of their sons' sexual conquests. Let them boys know motherly wrath.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (3760) 3 years ago

I agree with yin and yang idea each sex balancing out the other same with introverts extroverts etc. Different types of people have talents to bring and are needed for society to function...wallstreet is lacking balance in every way possible...and so here is this oppressive force so out of balance ( so lacking in a balanced mix of people and the checks and balances they would bring) it is throwing the planet itself out of whack with its pollution and domination over all living things .

During teenage years people reject their parents they look to friends and to society for a balance of ideas. Because ws is preaching such out of balance notions and that propaganda has been perpetuated and idolized because it has shaped our view of success...those boys I fear are going to get indoctrinated to this view of women...this sex object' yeah I want to hit that piece' marketing that IS going to be in their face every day...consciously and subconsciously they will grow up with it all around them...sadly so will the girls regardless of what their parents teach. Whatever we do to foster and promote equality underneath that, we are also (society/ws) sabotaging them at the same time...this is a conflict and paradox that must be corrected.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 3 years ago

Western societies' sexual objectification of women is what Islamic and Hindu cultures find highly objectionable but in this globalized world, there is no place to hide so some extremists really hate us for that. I see them (Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, Islamic State, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Khorasan Group) trying to return to an earlier cultural age Before globalization by repressing women to achieve societal integrity. Actually, that was also how the Western societies used to cope with sexuality in previous ages by letting women bear the burden.

I think that we do not have to return to a prior more repressive cultural age. We can forge a new maternalistic culture to counter-balance our overly yang culture. If wars solved problems, we should have had this cultural fault zone shored up and paved over by now. I think therefore we should give all of the girls, women, and mothers the chance to lead us out of this cultural fault zone. I believe that women's liberation was a good thing but we should still strive further for matriarchal sense beyond our patriarchal nonsense.

[-] 2 points by elf3 (3760) 3 years ago

Those extremist cultures are doing the same thing ...they have reduced woman to sexual objects...same thing they just happen to frown on sexuality period where America loves it...so you just have two cultures that react in different ways to sexual objects. One covers it up, the other strips it down...at the end of the day the feeling about woman seems to say the same thing...we must be what men want us to be and somehow it all revolves around having vaginas. Covered up , unclad, under the glass ceiling, scoffed at and snickered at when we try to break the boys clubs...or in some cases even attacked, and fulfilling our motherly or household duties. Does everyone remember when the Citadel first allowed women? I have never seen such ridiculous behavior those men should have all been expelled. It was insane. Our institutions are still instilled with it. Our government...our board rooms...the fact that our society still does not pay for maternity leave and is so incredibly short. The fact that companies force women to choose between having children or giving their life to the job...still no flex time, still no work life balance. And if you don't like it there is the door. Every fortune 500 should offer free childcare as a perk. They claim all the time they do charitable works and yet treat their working poor employees ( a lot of women) like absolute shit.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 3 years ago

I agree with you that regardless of Islamo-fascism or American sexism, all patriarchal cultures degrade women and men. They all agree that if women trigger a male mating frenzy disrupting societal order, it must automatically be the women being at fault, whether due to their uncovered female hair or exposed female skin. Yes, there is indeed a biological response but there also exists a uniquely human cultural element, too. Automatically assuming men being animated by their small "walnuts" dangling between their legs rather than the huge one on top of their shoulders dehumanizes men.

Maternity leaves should be given and lengthened from what they are today in the U.S. We can make the leaves for BOTH parents rather than just the mother or mothers. Maternity and paternity are such intense experiences and challenges that I believe that all hands being at stations seems to be the best for children, men, and women alike.

In my lifetime, I have seen that women have been liberated to take many jobs outside of the home. That is a good thing but I think we have all been tricked by the corporations into thinking that having more than one paycheck improves standards of living. I do not think that to be true. Everyone is subject to the balance of supply and demand. Initially, the women's paychecks had lifted the families up financially but persistent inflation chipped away that advantage till it became mandatory for women to work outside of the home to make ends meet. I still encounter many people who say that inflation is a good thing so I guess that the U.S. liberation of women to work has given U.S. families a really good life for the last few decades.

Corporations love to increase the supply of labor. They are sourcing more from Vietnam and opening up Myanmar rather than staying with the now higher-priced Chinese labor. They did the same with women and Chinese workers in past years.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (3760) 3 years ago

Yes but stating men think with a penis doesn't prevent them from getting promoted...?

But I do agree employment is getting tougher for everyone...our wages are shrinking while costs are rising...and rising. There aren't very many options now as far as career I would say too many of us are running a treadmill. Is it any wonder people are so depressed? People need progression.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5051) 3 years ago

People tend to be most comfortable with their own kind so yes, dickheads prefer promoting dickheads, blancos prefer blancos, gringos prefer gringos, and so on. The only way out of that bind is to have someone who has had diverse experiences to come to power or influence. Obama was very promising in that regard (grew up in Indonesia and Hawaii - the most diverse and internationally tolerant of all U.S. states, had Kenyan father and Indonesian stepfather, transvestite caretaker, Ivy League education, lived and worked in Chicago - the cultural capital of Blacks, etc.) but the U.S. populace and both political parties let him down and here we are.

Actually employment as far as the number of jobs are concerned is getting easier because more LOUSY (long hours, low/no pay, and no benefits) jobs than ever before have been made available. There is no doubt that it was due to the jobs! jobs! jobs! focus of the electorate and the politicians over the years. I remember someone yelling, "I've got THREE of those!" when Bill Clinton boasted of how many jobs were created during his administration.

The U.S. was printing trillions of dollars worth of credit/money to create inflation to ward off deflation. Well, it worked! The U.S. is now the envy of the developed world in terms of its economy: growing jobs, records-setting stock prices, lowered unemployment rate, inflation beating off prices dropping, etc. This sounds as familiar as the Clinton job hogger of THREE jobs to make ends meet. I say that the U.S. way of using the printing press rather than fiscal policy to revive its economy was an inadequate but overused approach because of our DYSFUNCTIONAL political system.

It is indeed a treadmill for most people but how can Hammie get off of the treadmill? Firstly, Hammie must discover that the treadmill is going faster and faster due to its own increasing effort. It does not have to run till it drops off of the treadmill breathing its last. It just has to slow down and get off when things get too hot.

The corporate world used right-sizing on the workers so the workers can do the same to the corporations by minimizing expenditures (e.g., getting freebies from craigslist gifters, looking through grown children's possessions being thrown out, buying from thrifts stores, repurposing existing possessions, stretching service lifetimes of things by buying modularly designed products with interchangeable parts, using lots of online and Google freebies for bargain hunting, online discounts, shopping, planning, optimizing, etc.).

Keep in mind that sometimes one person's garbage is a different person's treasure so for gifting to work, there must be both gifters and takers.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

The intense and Savage Attack on Females called "Gamergate" is really incomprehensible-until you watch Sarkeesian's series of game critiques posted under the title "Feminist Frequency." The critiques and analysis of misogynistic tropes common (or inevitable) in video games are just Devastating.The clarity,reasonableness and logic of Sarkeesian's critiques-also her calmness and restraint are Remarkable.What if people fail to ignore Feminist Frequency?The Prospect must be terrifying to people who love to inhabit Virtual Worlds where women are completely trivial toys-and where there is no shame or consequence for evil crimes and abuse of Females.If people listen to what is said on the subject of misogynistic tropes in Gaming by Women,developers might make efforts to reduce hate and trivialization of Females in future Games.Hence the intense Fear,Terror and Bathos of Gamergate.Ironic but true-Feminist Frequency had a Decent chance of being ignored before all the wild, splashy online abuse,doxing and melodramatic threats.Now FF's views will go into the millions for sure.LULZ!

[-] 3 points by elf3 (3760) 3 years ago

I hate censorship but I do wonder if some of these games are desensitizing vulnerable brains to these second realities where people get to act out their fantasies and weirdo or violent behavior. I also think people really need to keep perspective on the difference between porno sluts and regular women and fantasy and reality. It's so available now type ' woman barking on all fours while doing it and there it is.' It is really problematic to me as a woman to think that men may be carrying this degrading image of women over to woman they see every day. Woman can be sexual but it is a small corner of who we are...its taking over our culture that it is ALL we are now. Porno is degrading too let's face that ...if men aren't also learning how to romance and court women and treat them like gentlemen but carrying around this slut version who is ready to open her legs and vagina at any opportune moment and loves it doggy style ...then the end results are scary. The way women like sex vs the way it is projected and presented are two different realities. Porn isn't doing much to promote women as dignified people worthy of respect. I think some men envision all women act out these sex scenes out in privacy...I imagine that women today may themselves be confused over what they should expect in both the boardroom and in bed. We just really need to remind ourselves that if we forget to foster and defend women in our society ...society will not remember to remain kind...(look at countries where they don't)

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

The point Sarkeesian is trying to highlight is abandonment of demeaning Tropes of all kinds would lead to more entertaining and satisfying games.Feminism is really about moar Humane treatment of men,women,boys,girls and infants so everybody has room to live up the the Human Potential that all of us have,whatever it might be regardless of differences such as age,gender,race,sexual orientation,physical attributes,faith-et.al.In short-we are all much moar the same than we are different so everybody-get over it & quit ripping on each other for no f'n reason.It's boring & stupid.

[-] 2 points by pigeonlady (284) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

The female portrayals in video games are odd in part because the outfits are not remotely combat ready. Their boobs will fall out, or undies show. It's to make females less intimidating to the bracket the industry appeals to. It's still objectifying. I've had weird issues lately, and as a disabled and single female, and the biggest oddity there is the fact no one thinks I should refuse to date anyone who asks. It's as if I have no rights, although it's partly for being single, partly for being disabled, partly for being disadvantaged economically. On top of that I should be quiet about undue and unwelcome advances. When I was (because the guy is undersized and screwy in the head) it was taken as a fear reaction or attraction. I just told him to take a chill pill and he was ok, but it came back to bite me in the butt. If a guy wants to get to know me he will still be badgered by his friends to try to score and forget the rest, as also happened lately. Few gentlemen around, all the good ones taken etc. BTW, I am ALWAYS approached with a pitch for oral, which I hate. That's not an enticement. Sometimes I say, 'I know I'm beautiful, tell me I'm a genius!' They don't get the hint and just keep staring at my breasts. And I'm 51. I shudder to think how the girls half my age are faring. And a BIG peeve of mine is the sexualization of kids. They don't need to wear macho or slut clothes, they are what they are. Why in a large advanced city like NYC are girls wearing frills and bare midriffs and unable to play because it's not feminine? They need the exercise too. And boys get labelled gay more than ever for the dumbest infractions. Worry about their genderal identity later and make sure their heads are on straight.

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

People are overly preoccupied with their sex lives.The messier and more complex their love affairs are,the better they like it.When I lived in NYC I was very annoyed by the way everyone had a regular partner and all types of sideshow type affairs,causing constant sloppy emotional blowouts.Total waste of time.Of course everyone would juggle multiple lovers the same way if they could.In NYC it's easy because of so many people crammed into such a small area.Where I live now the idiotic Love Affair Shitshow gets accomplished by NOBODY ever really breaking up with their X's.

[-] 2 points by pigeonlady (284) from Brooklyn, NY 3 years ago

Yo, gotta add something. I belonged to Mensa (smart people group) and wanted to go out with a Special Interest Group meeting somewhere, so I called the contact. He IMMEDIATELY offered to fix me up with a partner, and offered himself, because he was also in charge of the Polyamory Society! In fact, I couldn't get ANY info about the other thing and was so freaked out by his pitch I didn't want to be anywhere near him. The creepy truth is, the largest Mensa group here in NYC has no intellectual aspirations, fosters no real creativity (minds out of the gutter, really), and does not further society. It's just a bunch of horndogs with a larger vocabulary they don't use!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33309) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 years ago

Developed Cultures Respect Women?

No not necessarily. In fact few cultures properly respect women - and - I think more undeveloped cultures do honestly respect women more than developed cultures.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (2696) from Cornelius, OR 3 years ago

SO women, Fucking VOTE!!!!

[-] 2 points by elf3 (3760) 3 years ago

They vote more than men...and yet ? Politics isn't about rights... it is about money or controlling money. The way our elections work makes that so.

Culture needs to shift...then our policies, laws, and society will start to. It is what we are willing to tolerate...we tolerate a corrupt political system ...and so regardless of voting it continues.

So are we going to tolerate objectification of women...it starts with us ...not our government...our attitudes and beliefs and efforts shape our society. Are we going to buy what ws is selling and buying?