Forum Post: Demand #1: Five (5) Year Moratorium on Foreclosures of Single-Family, Residential Homes
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 10:58 p.m. EST by Justice4All
(285)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
This is a feasible demand. It has precedence. It was done during the First Great Depression. It would help the economy and enable the housing market to heal itself to enable a recovery. Without healing, there cannot be a recovery.
What about the people who can't pay there mortgage due to job loss, then can't get a job because of corporate thinking? Do you have any idea what you have to disclose to even be considered for any job today? Your experience and education no longer matter! It starts with the application, then you say ok to a background check, credit check and of course, the ever popular pee in a cup check. Trust me, if you ever get to the pee in a cup stage, you are thankful for finally getting an opportunity. I don't think that money or rich people are the problem. The problem is everybody is scared! Companies who need people won't hire people because they are afraid. They even check out our internet social networks! Face it, in an effort to be "protected" we have given up our freedoms. Now here we sit pondering whether to "strategically foreclose" while we hope that the utility company will take half of what we owe and still keep our utilities on. This country is broken. We don't need or want hand outs or forgiveness. We want a freedom back. We don't want our grandchildren to have to be afraid.
Yes. We do. Which is why I am talking about your property rights in your home being protected. That is the role, indeed the duty, of government: to protect OUR RIGHTS!
They are not protecting our rights in the interests of protecting the income and economic interests of banks.
It is backward.
if you have a mortgage, rightly or wrongly, you do not entirely have claim to your property. This is why you do not receive the deed until the debt is paid.
"We want a freedom back. We don't want our grandchildren to have to be afraid." Exactly.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/world-wide-organization/
here here, easy good solution!
And a feasible one. It would heal the economy, provide breathing room for homeowners (many of whom who were deceived to accepting bad loans and all of whom bailed out the banks).
This would not cost the government a penny either. If they can get their derivatives bailed out and preferred loans and guarantees, we can help the homeowner.
Justice4All,
While this sounds like a "fair" thing to do, have you considered how many U.S. citizens will simply stop paying their mortgages? You'll be creating another mortgage crisis...
They cannot voluntarily stop paying their mortgages; they must demonstrate a hardship.
You can't just make up rules as you go along to answer peoples criticisms. Your initial demand did not include anything about hardship. It also doesn't seem to include condos or townhomes (residences that include multiple units and therefore multiple families). Are those people less worthy of staying in their homes?
Again, I cannot go without saying the new bankruptcy laws established back in the Fall of 2005 were clearly planned to save the banking industry for what eventually was going to happen today in the economic market. So these new laws need addressed/investigated
Yes!! They were! Wow. You know your stuff. And did you know who passed that shit? Ted Kennedy! Yes.
Well done, Sir/Madam! This person above me is very intelligent and informed, probably more than me on the subject.
Even for businesses. Small businesses lost a lot of debtor rights through the new bankruptcy laws. The banks basically can control your shit without the appointment of a receiver. Pretty nasty.
And the banks choose their own receiver. And we cannot put failed banks into receivership! They get bailed out. It is like . . . unbelievable what has happened to banking and insurance in this country, my friend.
Thanks, Justice4All. My name is Burke. Bleeding Soul is a music act I'm in. Know my stuff?....maybe more like street smart. But thanks anyways.
Maybe I should start a separate post in regards to this. I've been suggested to do so a few times by others.
Yes. Definitely! I have not heard of Bleeding Soul, but send me a link to your music if you can.
Thanks.
We're all operating under a flawed economic model. There should BE no taxes. A home shouldn't be an "investment", it is a necessity. Perhaps "add-ons" aren't, but the basic home is. People need a place to live.
Local towns/cities could purchase up all of the foreclosures from the banks, and use local economic models/currencies/etc to enable people to pay their mortgage through those local means.
We've got to break away from the "job" mentality and move quickly towards a "real work" mentality where we do what must get done and ought to get done rather than spinning wheels just so someone else can have more of everyone's money. We can do this kind of thing easily on a local basis and that ball can get started today without any blessings from Congress or the big banks.
And how do you propose local towns/cities purchase bank-owned properties? I can't wait to hear this one.
1) should be "no taxes." None? How are we going to finance our roads, fire protection, etc. The Founders had two taxes: (a) estate tax (no one called it a "death tax," and a death tax never existed then or now) and (b) customs duties.
How can municipalities purchase all foreclosed home without taxes?
section 18 of the 99% declaration addresses this with a one year moratorium
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
If we demand a year, they will say 5 months; and we have reinstatement and equity rights of redemption already for that.
1 year in this housing crisis will not work to heal the housing market. We need to fix the mortgages during the moratorium period.
What's the rationale and what's the analysis behind it. I agree to some kind of moratorium that protects both the mortgagor and the mortgagee - there will have to be qualification restrictions and conditions (i.e., minimum holding payments). A blanket 5-year moratorium is absurd! Even if the homeowner loses the house, the person will have to pay rent to someone or move in with family or friends. Mortgage free for 5 years - please, get real.
I agree with ya. Can't give everyone a break some were victims and other buyers were scamming the system also. If the person had limited intelligence and limited education to make informed then adjustments can be made in limited situations. More noften people bought property they should have no business of purchasing in the first place.
Right. The details would need to be hashed out, but the mortgagee is really just the servicer, who already made 100 percent profit by selling your mortgage---the homeowner is the mortgagor---as a security. The purchasers of the security made 100 percent profit through a bailout (negotiated by Geithner at 100 percent). And the insurers like AIG made 100 percent profit through a bailout.
CAN REGULAR PEOPLE GET ANY FUCKING HELP? FUCK!
I'm going to stop paying my mortgage so I can take advantage of this great program!
This is a great way to bankrupt some banks. You know....the ones we depend on to loan us money when we need it. Bad Idea.
Many of these banks are "bankrupt" insofar that the liabilities exceed the assets; a mortgage is an asset to a bank. But those assets are grossly overvalued, which is why a moratorium is necessary to fix these mortgage assets and liabilities for housing to stabilize to begin the healing and recovery of the economy.
We will be stuck in this bad economy until housing heals. In order for it to heal, we need a moratorium period to fix these mortgages.
I agree with you on the housing issue. No housing recovery....no economic recovery; However, I disagree on the way to solve the problem.
If the government would loosen up on the current requirements to refinance mortgages then many more homeowners could take advantage of the lower rates; Thus, giving them more money to spend. (I know what you are saying to yourself right now....this is what got us in the mess to begin with....but hear me out). Unlike a payroll tax holiday that is temporary, a reduction in the mortgage payment of a family allows them to budget for the "long term". They will use the extra cash to upgrade their home (after a good dinner and a few cocktails to celebrate). Once the economy starts to see a substantial recovery, the government would need to tighten the mortgage qualification rules to prevent another meltdown; however, by then....the economy in on a self sustaining "roll".
You know for everyone that has a house foreclosed on, someone else gets a house dirt cheap.
Not true at all. What makes you say that?
I just bought a foreclosed a house last year and I got it absolutely dirt cheap. A much larger and nicer house than I would have been able to buy just a few years ago. I am sure plenty of others are doing the same.
You cant pay the mortgage sell the home not the taxpayer job to support the mortgage.
Comments like this is exactly how the banks get middle class Americans to believe these were the people responsible for the collapse. Irresponsible homeowners who borrowed more than they could afford. The reality is that the entire system was doomed to fail and preying on them for almost a decade before it happened.
I suggest you read the rest of the thread gizmopigon.
1) The value is LOWER than the mortgage, and then that requires the bank's approval to sell. No disrespect to you, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, Sir/Madam.
2) Banks have frozen credit. You often need 30% down right now. Hardly anyone "saves" that kind of money. More, people who are pre-approved with the money will often find the lender throws a wrench into the Closing process.
3) All of these distressed properties make closings long, arduous, and very uncertain. A moratorium will bring stability and the opportunity to fix these mortgages.
We will not have an economic recovery with housing in the shape it is.
you only need the banks approval if you are doing a short sale, don't have the money to cover the difference or can't get a loan for the difference.
I have to disagree, you don't need 30% down if you have no dings on your credit. I purchased my new home with 5% down in August. I had no issues with the closing, I love my credit union.
Yes, it hurts, the bad properties need to be flushed out and not through manipulation. The market needs to heal itself and this will take time. We didn't get into this mess overnight and we won't get out overnight
1) Yes. Right. The bank has to approve for you to sell your own home. Exactly right.
2) Yes. They are requiring 30% down even for the most credit worthy borrowers. Trust me. Or do not. I do not care per se, but they are.
3) The market has not, and cannot, heal itself. It cannot. Because those mortgages were written based on presumptions that did not exist. Thus, we are stuck, saddled, burdened with excess debt. The market cannot cure all of these agreements, deficiency judgments, etc. that empower the banks with 500k notes to enforce on 140k properties!
Have you ever sold a house?
No you do not need your banks permission, you only need the money to cover the outstanding loan balance. I did not need my banks permission and I owed more than it was worth, I saved and came up with the difference and paid it.
this statement is flat out false, like I said, I purchased a home a little over a month ago with 5% down, I can show you my loan documents if you don't believe me..
You are only stuck if you want to sell your house. Even then there are several options:
-Work to pay the balance down
-Sign a note for the difference that the house didn't sell for (not easy but possible)
-Work a short sale
-Foreclosure
-Bankruptcy
Have I ever sold a house? LOL. I have been selling and buying houses since I was 21, asshole. Yes.
1) YES YOU DO. Wow.
2) I do not believe you - at all. I should just ignore you by now. Why am I going to point 3? I do not know. Indulging you, I guess.
3) No. You can do a died in lieu as well. Work to pay the balance? NO SHIT. Pardon my language, but wow. Most Americans are, and want to, work to pay the balance. Wow. Short sales are not easy and often fall apart (because of banks). Foreclosue - this is an "option" that you are offering? Dude, I should have stopped at point 1. Bankruptcy - depends on which chapter.
re>I have been selling and buying houses since I was 21 I see you want a 5 yr moratorium so you can collect rents and scam the system. You SIR are the problem.
Forgive me if I don't' believe you, you repeatedly misspell the word "Deed", it's not spelled "died".... I don't think you know what you are doing because your can't even spell the word Deed, the foundation of a real-estate transaction that gives you ownership of the property. Also your statements are false further indicating that you don't know what you are talking about. This misinformation has to stop, it is part of the reason people are loosing hope.
I just sold my house and did not need permission to sell it, I only needed the money to pay off my loan.
to show that you are wrong here is a link for the contract on our house: http://photos.imageevent.com/bikeguy/junk/Capture1.JPG Note Purchase Price is $350,000 and the Amount Financed is $332,500 That is 5%....
see, there are several options available to deal with such a situation, we don't need another.
What do you think now?
Did I mispell deed? it was a typo, but you are pretty quick to rush to conclusions (that support a mischaracterization of me, no less).
Right. Deed conveys title. Very good.
That is a counteroffer addendum to the real estate contract. That means nothing to me. Who do you think you are talking with here?
I think you are trying to (a) say my typo indicates that I do not know what a deed is (lol, good effort, but pathetic) and (b) showing a counteroffer to a real estate contract as proof that you purchased a house with 5% down.
I think you are trying to be deceptive. That is what I think.
a typo once yeah, but twice? Doubt it...
Here is a link to the GFE from the bank further proving that they financed 95% of $350,000 http://photos.imageevent.com/bikeguy/junk/Capture.JPG
Show me your facts and evidence that you can't get a loan with less than 30% down, your turn to show some facts.
THAT IS AN ESTIMATE asshole. I know what I am talking about, quit trying to deceive me (or others or whomever) or whatever you are trying to do. LOL.
God damn you are a clueless idiot. This guy is calmly showing you how clueless you are and all you can do is call him an asshole.
Thank god you don't represent any part of this movement nor educated people for that matter. Sheesh.
I provided these documents because I'm at work and don't have the final closing papers scanned into my computer as they where signed in person at the title company and I don't have a digital copy.
I have these documents because they are part of email communication with my real-estate agent and loan officer. These documents are real and legal binding agreements between the seller of the house, me and my bank. The deal is done, I live in this house right now.
I don't know why you think I would make up this elaborate story. My story has been consistent, it is consistent because it represents real events and is the truth. I don't know why it is so hard to believe that qualified people can still get loans with no issues.
why would the bank give me this estimate if they can't fulfill it?
Cat got your Tongue? Don't have a problem calling people stupid and liars but when confronted with facts you run like the weasel you are.
Here is my Settlement Statement and Deed of Trust to show you once and for all that I purchased this home with 5% down. Stop lying to people and man up when you are wrong.
http://photos.imageevent.com/bikeguy/junk/111%20Settlement.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/bikeguy/junk/11%20deed%20of%20trust.JPG
I'm closed and I have lived there for a month now...
Time for you to show your evidence instead of trying to discredit mine.
Why would you show me (a) counteroffer and an (b) estimate? Show me the actual HUD used for Closing. Show me your copy of the deed as well.
Those estimates are not worth the paper they are not printed on any more than a pre-approval means a damn thing.
Obviously you have not Closed yet. You have given me all the b.s. documents that are used prior to Closing. Be careful. All I can say.
And believe it or not I do wish you the very best in the Closing, no matter what you say here to or against me.
If you Closed with 5% down, I would be shocked. I have not heard of that in . . . years. I cannot even remember. Frankly, I do not think they can write mortgages with 5% with their insurance agreements now. But I wish you the best of luck.
Sell the home at a loss and pay off the difference over time. I just sold my home in August and lost about 35% from what I paid for it 7 years ago. It was my bad decision and I'm the one who singed the papers and signed up for the ride, I learned a lot and won't make the same mistake twice. No bailouts!
The bailouts already happened, Bro. It is just that you did not get a bailout.
1) The security was bailed out (the banks); and
2) The insurers of those securities were bailed out (AIG, e.g.).
The holders of the underlying assets from which the paper derived their value were never bailed out. The banks, and insurers, were bailed out 100 percent on the dollar. You got jack. You may have a deficiency judgment against you that can be enforced for 27 years.
You probably did this the wrong way and did not do a died in lieu, loan mod, or short sale.
Right. You should blame yourself for being so stupid. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but you are stupid. Real stupid - not the I am being mean and calling you "stupid." The real stupid.
And I paid for it out of my pocket, no short sale no Deed in lieu of foreclosure. You wouldn't know what it is since you can't spell it... but I'm the one that's stupid, hah...
I signed up for the ride and I paid for it. My responsibility. I still take honor in what I sign my name to and I won't take a handout from anyone even if everyone else is.
Sir, there is no honor in being stupid. Forgive me, but I am not going to dishonor myself and tell you that there is.
I fail to see how this makes me stupid, I agreed to a contract and I fulfilled it, I understood the papers I signed when I purchased the home and I still understand them today, better than the vast majority of the public.
Sir, you are trying to say that your victimhood has honor in it. I say what you did was stupid - period. Not trying to be mean.
You would have been better off filing for bankruptcy, and pursuing other options, then having a judgment entered against you and a deficiency judgment that will hang over your head for 27 years.
There is no "honor" in being stupid. Sorry. You have been basically screwed by your creditors in every which way - for the rest of your life.
I have no deficiency judgement, I paid the difference out of my pocket with money I saved by working extra hours...
I'm not a victim... I disagree that I would be better off with a Bankruptcy, I wanted to buy another home and I did, I'm better off now than before because I was able to get a great deal on a larger house.
"Great deal on a larger house" AFTER you have been foreclosed upon and had judgments entered against you.
I do not believe you.
Yes, the way you talk to people calling them liars and stupid says a lot about who you are as a person. I don't even need to add to it, you made the case yourself. Have a nice miserable life.
Whatever is convenient for you. You showed your real face.
You send me estimates, a trust me, incomplete HUD information, etc. and I showed my face? OK.
You are a joke Justice, that is the final HUD, look at the top of the page it clearly says "Housing and Urban Development" This is directly from my closing documents. You are again showing your ignorance and show that you really don't know how a transaction like this works.. Heck you don't even know what a Deed of Trust is. Here let me educate you on what it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_deed_%28real_estate%29
Before you start spreading false information educate yourself so you don't make yourself look silly.
You can't even admit when you have been proven wrong, sad...
Sam...give it up with this moron. Seriously.
This is not germane to this conversation.
Cat got your Tongue? Don't have a problem calling people stupid and liars but when confronted with facts you run like the weasel you are.
Here is my Settlement Statement and Deed of Trust to show you once and for all that I purchased this home with 5% down. Stop lying to people and man up when you are wrong.
http://photos.imageevent.com/bikeguy/junk/111%20Settlement.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/bikeguy/junk/11%20deed%20of%20trust.JPG
Here you go, my wife was kind enough to email me the Settlement Statement and our Deed of Trust.
http://photos.imageevent.com/bikeguy/junk/111%20Settlement.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/bikeguy/junk/11%20deed%20of%20trust.JPG
Now stop lying to people and spreading false rumors making people think things are worse than they really are. You Sir are part of the problem, not the solution.
You are a joke Justice, that is the final HUD, look at the top of the page it clearly says "Housing and Urban Development" This is directly from my closing documents. You are again showing your ignorance and show that you really don't know how a transaction like this works.. Heck you don't even know what a Deed of Trust is. Here let me educate you on what it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_deed_%28real_estate%29
Before you start spreading false information educate yourself so you don't make yourself look silly.
You can't even admit when you have been proven wrong, sad...
First, that is not the final HUD because it is incomplete.
Second, why are you using a Deed of Trust?
What are you trying to pull here? Why would the LENDER be the beneficiary? This looks like a foreclosure sale trust, not a property that you purchased.
LOL, I don't know where you are getting this info from, the bank wouldn't give me 3.25% on my new loan if I had a judgement or a foreclosure. You sir are ignorant, I don't think you are stupid I think you are lacking knowledge.
I don't see where you are getting this information for, I never said I went through a foreclosure, I specifically said I worked and saved to pay the deficiency on my last home.
I have perfect credit. I have never had a judgement or foreclosure. I don't owe any car loans, student loans or own any credit cards. This is why the bank gave me such a good interest rate and low down payment. It is possible.
Let's be clear. You have a judgment of foreclosure entered against you and a deficiency judgment? And you went and bought a new ("larger house with a better deal")? Bull shit. Total bull shit. People with outstanding credit cannot get commitments.
In other words, make demands that will benefit me personally.
I rent and own an 8-unit apartment building. My building is owner-occupied with me as the on-site manager. Title to my apartment is held by an LLC, and I have never missed a payment.
I also own a property management company that manages commercial property, and I have negotiated numerous leases with my commercial tenants that "fixes" the assumptions that were made when the leases were executed. I know how bad this economy is.
The banks refuse to fix the mortgages and want to suck as much blood and money out of people. The servicers of these notes, the original writers of the mortgages in most cases, are triple dipping. You need to study this area or work in it to understand how these banks are literally triple screwing homeowners and taxpayers.
This is about the economy. All of us. Not me. Sorry. You do not know me, and you made a very bad presumption about me.
Better than this, mitigate all foreclosures.
From what I hear, mitigation is not successful. You have volunteer attorneys who have their own practices and firms and paying clients to worry about. I am NOT knocking it. But there is a big difference between a (free) volunteer lawyer and a lawyer collecting a fee to help you and also a government-imposed moratorium.
The market cannot "correct" this own its own because banks were bailed out and have no incentive to help people;
(a) they already sold the note as a security (made 100 percent profit);
(b) the purchasers of the pooled securities were bailed out (100 percent profit); and
(c) the insurers of the pools securities were bailed out (100 percent profit).
Under the pooling and service agreements, these banks are making money by foreclosing on people. It is sick, especially after bailouts.
I can discourse at length about the subsidies, and it is sickening. The banks are profiting if they foreclose on the properties by selling the home quickly to get the liquid cash. If it's a short sale program, the government is buying the difference at 100% of the balance. If they get fit into a loan modification, the government is sending them subsidy checks for incentives. A thousand to send the letter suggesting a loan modification, another check if they fit someone into a program, a check after a year, another after five years, etc. If they foreclose and they don't get fit into a program, it's all tax deductible. That's too big to fail. In this sense, the banks don't lose. The taxpayers and the homeowners are ultimately the losers. And everyone else in the community. Basically the exact opposite of the stated purpose of the bailout.
Yes! And under the pooling and service agreements, which they often do not disclose even during court proceedings, they get MORE money by kicking your ass (with your families') out of YOUR house! I mean, it is TRULY amazing. Truly amazing.
Riiiiiiight! Oh, my God. I did not even MENTION THIS. But you clearly know what is going on. Chase will say, send us 1,500 for a mod. They wait a few months, say, "send us another 1,500 for a mod." They wait a few months, "send another 1,500 for a mod" - as they continue to foreclose AND get a fee for servicing the mortgage!! They are double dipping AGAIN! Even in the mod process. These people are insanely sick and devising crafty ways to suck ordinary people dry, even AFTER the bailouts.
I know there are a lot of caps above, but it is so insane it makes me truly sick what these banks are doing to families and the economy.
Huh, didn't think about the servicing rights. I have spoken at length with at least a dozen attorneys about the subsidies though. Read the bailout from cover to cover, etc. TARP was actually created to mitigate foreclosures. The bailout was created to mitigate foreclosures. The worst piece of shit legislation ever written. "And if there was one thing in congress that we could agree on in Congress. Democrats and Republicans, and everyone in between (sucker Americans) it's that we all hated the bailout. It was about as popular as a root canal." Obama
Remember that line from the state of the union speech? They voted 74-26 I believe, in favor.
Yes. It was. The servicers get like 1,500 to approve the mod and more money if the mod is successful after the trial period, I believe.
You know this well. Too big to fail means just that. The government has made these financial institutions into behemoths, and they guaranteed all their debt. In the bailout, they allot $700 billion, but at the same time they raised the statutory limit that the treasury can borrow from Congress to $14.9 trillion? Correct me on this if i'm wrong with the numbers. The reason why they did this, was because they knew exactly how much toxic debt these banks already had one their books. The bleeding still hasn't stopped. And while the world markets are contracting, the dollar has still lost so much to foreign currencies, and this is the cause of it all. The Foreclosure Crisis.
Right. And 40B of TARP was supposed to be used to help those in foreclosures, and my understanding is that the money was not used to help regular people and went to banks like Chase who are screwing people.
It is so extremely sick that I cannot believe they got away with it.
They have spent very little of the TARP funds because of the restraints and parameters of the programs. If you don't meet the specific criteria, you do not qualify for relief.
Right. But they have their own non-TARP (or is it non-HAMP?) modification divisions as well.
Seriously, if we could have a moratorium on foreclosures and during that process reduce principal and interest, unwind these awful debts that were already bailed out on the paper and finance side, this county could stabilize its entire economy.
Yes, and this is why the Bailout was such a bad piece of legislation. If it would have never been passed, it would have forced the banks to mitigate foreclosure without government intervention. The government's intervention has created all the problems.
Right. And the healthful banks that did not engage in the fraudulent derivatives market would have purchased the bad banks. But the power-elite banks DEMANDED!!---yes, demanded!! on their own terms---a bailout and got one.
The banks could have: 1) separated the bad portions of their operations from the healthful to avoid bailout; 2) transferred the bad portions to a trust to avoid a bailout and liquidate; 3) filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy; and 4) many additional NON BAILOUT options.
These big banks got what they wanted.
As the provision in the Dodd Frank Bill implemented by Alan Grayson and Bernie Saunders, what the accounting actually revealed is that JP Morgan Chase received $3 trillion in bailout money from the Federal Reserve. All told, it worked out to $16 trillion in loans to American banks, foreign central banks, foreign corporations in china, saudi arabia.
And TARP that was the agency that was created to help homeowners stay in their homes actually received $45 billion or $75 billion. I can't remember the exact number, but I've watched all the senate subcommittee hearings on TARP. If you break it down into money and figures we can comprehend, it's like giving us $4,500 and them getting $160,000. And they were the ones who created the fucking problems in the first place!
that's why it kills me to hear people arguing on behalf of the banks, or arguing against Occupy Wall Street. It's the exact awareness this movement is trying to teach and promote.
Right. And the economy will not enter recover until housing is stabilized.
The whole banking fraud situation with government involvement and screwing homeowners may very well---without an ounce of inflation or pretense---go down in history as the biggest fraud ever perpetrated.
Crassus, the wealthiest person in history, would set fire to people's homes and then have the fire department stand outside. You paid him a fee to put out the fire or you sold him your now devalued home.
These assholes made fucking fortunes in "paper assets" with our homes, gambled and got bailed out, and continue to double if not triple dip in the process.
Frankly, after they paid themselves record bonuses---right after the bailouts by the way---I realized how far along and steeped into corruption we are. They are so addicted to money that they will not innovate, invent, or build; they just create paper derivatives and make money on money and get bailed out when those paper assets are suddenly rejected by the market.
The market said those paper assets are worthless, so Geithner negotiated to use our money to pay 100 percent. And everyone got bailed out in the process by the people holding the underlining asset from which these pieces of paper derived their value.
Frankly, and I mean this, I do not even . . . the fraud is so enormous, and they are doing new frauds---fraudclosures---with the crisis, that it is hard to believe.
No, we will never recover from this recession. Just get used to it. Learn to tolerate it. Accept it. It's the new American way. The new American Depression.
I thought you would be interested in the electronic petition that has been created on We the People, a new feature on WhiteHouse.gov, and ask for your support. If this petition gets 5,000 signatures by October 22, 2011, the White House will review it and respond! If a petition gets enough support, the Obama Administration will issue an official response. You can view and sign the petition here: http://wh.gov/gWX
it is a wrong demand. the great depression was not about a housing bubble. this one is.
if you are heavily underwater, you need to get rid of the bad debt. it holds you back individually, as well as retards growth on the economy. there is simply no reason anyone should continue to pay for the fantasy value of their asset when they took out the loan, let alone with interest. there are 2 ways to get rid of the bad debt:
You cannot get rid of the debt through foreclosure. You will have a deficiency and they can go after ALL of your personal assets.
People, for God's sake---if you do not believe in God, then for YOUR sake---understand the power of your creditors.
that is incorrect. laws vary state by state. in many situations, you can get yourself in a better spot. you are correct however for federal student loan debt, another scam.
Right! You cannot even get rid of student loan debt through bankruptcy!
Student loan debt is the most draconian debt you have, and it is sold as an "investment," just like overvalued homes were.
The same people that got homebuyers to acquire predatory loans are getting the kids to accept predatory student loan debt.
Very (very) greedy people work in finance. I am sorry, but it is structured to screw people. Look at the terms of student loan debt. It is designed to make people debtors forever, which prevents the economy from growing because all of people's disposal income goes to finance student loan debt interest and principal.
These finance people have literally gotten people over their heads in debt and will do nothing to provide any sort of relief. Even though they repackage the debts and sell them and make a 100 percent profit by turning the debts into "securities."
look - people are greedy, or motivated by self-interest, in any environment. that is human nature and it's not going to go away. as long as they bear the burden of taking the loss on their risk, i'm pretty fine with that really. but student loan debt doesn't do this. it's not simply greedy lenders - yet again this is a problem created by the government. the government guarantees all these loans. students will take 18 or 19k for school, it's a big number and the loan will always be given out because the gov guarantees it. schools will ask for 20 the next year because the student says f it i'm getting a big loan anyway, and the gov keeps giving them the money anyway. if the student does fail to pay, he can't get rid of the debt, and a fee is also added. the original lender is paid the balance of the loan. then the collection agency (which was private but is now public) goes in to garnish wages and keep getting money. the lender and government actually make MORE money if you default. this system benefits the school, the lender, and the government. the only reason it is made possible is because of the government. it does not benefit the student and has led to education in inflation that dwarfs that of any other industry.
I agree. There are many to blame for student debt inflation. It is not just the banks, and I think that is why amnesty is necessary (cannot be discharged; the rules the banks and politicians funded by the those banks made amnesty the sole recourse for excessive debt).
This is well stated. However, the reason why the Federal Reserve keeps printing money is for the purchase of these toxic assets. The mortgage backed securities. As more people default, home values will continue to plummet, and it will continue to promote more foreclosure. I have done some study in Florida, and hyperanalyzed some of the county budgets to see the effects on the tax bases. In most counties, Ad Valerom taxation accounts for a very high percentage of the tax base, and when home values plummet, the tax revenue disappears at a very similar percentage. This is causing most counties to spend reserves now to plug holes and shortfalls. If foreclosure isn't mitigated, just wait two years from now. It's going to be bad.
The irony in all this, is that there was a crisis back in 2007. Then in 2009, there were more foreclosures then there were in the year when it was a crisis, so i don't know what you would call it. But foreclosures havent really subsided. as these homes are being sold in firesales post foreclosure, money continues to evaporate from the economy, and all this is doing is creating inflation.
the foreclosure process has gone quite slow, partially because it forces banks to write the debt off as a loss as well. i do not believe that they are able to give any more toxic junk to us via the fed. i guess where the fed is holding it, the taxpayer is just taking the loss? it seems if you simply choose to stop making payments, you can still live in your home without paying anything for a long time still. longer if you are richer/make a bigger mistake actually - say you had a 1 million dollar home that the fed didn't take - the banks is going to to have to write down a lot more for that home than the 200k one. as far as tax revenue, my understanding of the way it works in IL (and i thought most places) is that the assessed value of the home was simply used to try and distribute the tax burden fairly. even if your assessment went down, your taxes could go the same (or like ours, gone up). basically if your assessment was double what it should be, or half - but everyone else was in the same boat - then the burden would be considered as distributed fairly.
agreed, with both posters
what happens for those who have already lost their homes? what happens to them. Thousands have already foreclosed.
Millions.
Title already transferred, unfortunately. You cannot help them.
Let me know when this happens and I'll stop paying my mortgage, and so on and so on......
I am 100% behind this one. I bought my 1.5 million dollar house on the beach in Newport Beach California back in 2001, but I am no longer able to pay for it. My daughters all have ties to the community and we have really put down roots here over the last 10 years, but now I fear we may have to give all that up.
I think we should speak with a single voice to have these onerous debts lifted from the backs of we the people.
Is this a joke? You're crying to keep your 1.5 mil house? Why don't you get out of that and into something you can afford?
If I move out and rent, I lose the tax deduction, which would further impoverish me. Besides, I can afford it, barely. My interest only loan is the only thing saving my ass, but I haven't really paid down the principal at all in 10 years. I am seriously concerned that my family will suffer if I lose my job in this very shaky economy.
This is all the banks fault for pushing me into this. Believe me, If I wasn't so committed, I would definitely move. Besides, why should every day people suffer because of greedy banks?
Right. Those mortgages and promissory notes were written under presumed to exist on the time that did not: (a) inflated prices, (b) inflated appraisals, (c) inflation notions of constant appreciation, (d) inflated interest rates, and (e) other.
We must stabilize housing to fix this economy.
Very true. I got my place before the bubble on a interest only loan, but the payments are absolutely killing me.
Forgive the mortgage debt and FIX THIS ECONOMY
Absolutely.
You are, how shall I say this without being offensive....a MORON. What about those that ARE paying and have NEVER missed a mortgage payment? What do WE get from this deal? We get the privilege of continually paying out mortgage because we CAN afford it? I have a 20 yr old house with a monthly note that is less than most pay on rent, why do I not get a break? I NEVER over bought. If you are going to do this for one, you MUST do this for all, including millionaires/billionaires. Equal protection/Equal rights/Equal credit. You are just plain ignorant of the real world. I guess I should get in line and DEMAND my FREE STUFF.
Demand #2: Loan modifications for all mortgages whose principal exceeds the value of the property.
Right. You purchased a home before the brokers and lenders were engaging in predatory lending. Your property may be fine, but your economy is not.
In order for your economy to repair and recovery, housing must be stabilized first.
Aside: I think I am doing a better job of not being bothered by the "you are ignorant" and "free stuff" tripe.
What do you call not paying anything for 5 years for a place to live? That is usually referred to as "rent free". It never ceases to amaze me how people actually believe in a utopian society, it will never happen. Your plan is to punish those that make good choices and reward those that do not. Why, oh why would you think that it is remotely reasonable for me to approve of something like this. How about we do this. A house swap. Since I would like to live in a better area and have paid my bills, I transfer my existing mortgage to a new home, of my choosing, and the current occupant who cannot pay anything moves to my house? this way I benefit from getting a better home and the other people just have a place to live? that is fair, right?
Stop being so goddamn ignorant. This is not about utopia. This is not about an imaginary swap (whatever you are talking about).
It is necessary to stabilize the entire housing market, which is the sine qua non to a recovery.
My idea makes as much sense as yours. Again, why do I still have to pay my mortgage while you are wanting to give a pass to others? that is a simple question.