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Forum Post: Defense spending is expected to constitute nearly 60% of all federal discretionary spending this year.

Posted 2 years ago on May 25, 2012, 1:33 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic (5827)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

“The NDAA for 2013, H.R. 4310, authorizes a total of $642.7 billion. According to Congressional Quarterly, defense spending is expected to constitute nearly 60% of all federal discretionary spending this year. This expensive piece of legislation is a bad investment. It doubles down on war as an economic engine at a time when our domestic economy desperately needs attention."

“In addition to the $1.3 trillion we have already spent on the war in Afghanistan, H.R. 4310 authorizes an additional $88.5 billion to continue the war and the general war on terror. By continuing to authorize funds for this increasingly unpopular war, Congress is demonstrating just how woefully out of touch it is with the American public. A recent poll by the Associated Press showed that less than 25% of the American public support the war."

“Our participation in NATO comes at a great financial cost to the U.S. We contribute the majority of funds for NATO’s common budget, including 25% of the military budget. Between fiscal years 2010 and 2012 alone, we contributed more than $1.3 billion to NATO’s military budget. We also incur significant costs through the deployment of our forces in support of NATO missions. According to The Atlantic, the war in Libya cost the United States $1.1 billion."

"If you want war, prepare for war. If you want peace, prepare for peace. The NDAA prepares for War not Peace." - Dennis Kucinich

If less than 25% of the public supports the wars... why is the majority continually voting for pro-war Congress candidates and incumbents with a history of voting in favor of wars?

233 Comments

233 Comments


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[-] 5 points by Nevada1 (4789) 2 years ago

Any idea what the 800 FEMA/Halliburton prison camps cost, and what the purpose is?

[+] -5 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

$0, since they don't exist, you truthtard imbecile.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

Too much war. Too much money for war.

[-] 3 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

I hate paying for crusades.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Afghanistan is a war of imperialism. Even Petraeus said we're still there to extract trillions in resources and build the new silk road.

"and that's trillions with an S" - David Petraeus

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

The dark ones would like you to think it is all about resource, because then they have an excuse, but there are clear signs that there is an intent to remove the society from it religious origins.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

it's definitely about resources and capitalism. I would agree there is a "crusade" aspect happening as well though. Bigotry is real.

[-] 2 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

Recall scuds landing at Megiddo in the gulf war. News coverage did not use the name, only location relative to Tel Aviv. Later National Geographic mag did an article showing scuds sticking out of sand but never mentioned the gulf war.

It's unconcious!

[-] 3 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Much of our success will depend on how we frame the issues. For instance: 'Do you mind that social security, and medicare will have to be cut, but that we will continue to spend oodles of money on wars of choice?' Hmmm? We may then find that older folks who have traditionally been big supporters of defense programs aren't so enthusiastic then.

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Growth in entitlements will eat even the defense budget and still be left wanting for more. Sorry to burst in with math and stuff.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

That's OK, I don't think you did burst my bubble with "math and stuff." Take the cap off social security, and tax the rich, and corporations at a higher rate, and eliminate their loopholes, then see what kind of shape we are in. Of course we will also have to transfer our anger to the corrupt bankers.....where it rightly belongs.. who caused this severe recession.

[-] -3 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Sure, I know that's the answer liberals have for everything: Just take more. No surprise there.

So, enjoy. Watch town after town have the life sucked out of it over what the employees walk off with. Never mind that the workers live better than their employers in the middle class. Never mind what liberals used to care about as its' crowded out by employee costs. State and local governments have a giant tape worm that's killing them and people like you support it. Not very liberal, or smart, of you.

[-] 4 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

people actually spend the money they take.. thereby increasing the life of the towns.. when you let the rich take it and hoard it ,, it does nothing.. hand outs is the only way you can keep the economy running.. now that the rich have destroyed the job market. theres no other way for people to get money to spend to keep towns alive. and the 1% did this .. not the workers.. they would just keep working if allowed.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

well

yes my friend would still be sorting books at the library if their weren't cuts

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

So, they union government workers can just be the happy recipients of these righteous society healing transfer payments. LOL. Unions are sucking the air out of municipal finances across the country. Our towns are dying as what they used to do gets crowded out by benefits not even enjoyed by the people that employ them. It's wrong and liberals should know better... but they don't, not yet anyways. I guess you have yet to be convinced that simply taking "more" won't work this time.

[-] 3 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

it is not the union employees that drain the money.. it is the elected officials.. 209k for a mayor? or a city manager? the guy sweeping the streets is not the one you should be complaining about. its not the union workers that make all the money , its the treasurer, the city clerk, the comptroller.. why dont you take a stand against that instead of people who have to get up every single day and do some endlessly dull job over and over for practically nothing.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/chicago-mayor-rahm-emanuel-releases-salary-information-city/story?id=13802805#.T9vpVOQk2vQ

http://www.wickedlocal.com/newton/news/x1018067895/Letter-A-vote-for-raising-the-mayors-salary#axzz1xuyvBJjm

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

It's both. The system is rotten through-out. It's all just grinding away and displacing what government is supposed to be doing. Unions benefits, throughout the ranks, are well in excess of their employers (aka taxpayers) and crowding out the stuff liberals used to care about.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Here is an idea you will love. Cut the Defense budget to that of the combined spending of the two largest potential enemies (say China and Russia), allocate half of the balance to debt reduction and half to fixing social security and half to infrastructure and healthcare single payer reform. Healthcare costs will drop 15% in saved administration costs, 250 billion in saving from cancelled drug and medical equipment patent extensions and 250 billion in fraudulent billings. MRI's will cost $50. like in Japan and healthcare costs will drop from almost 20% of GDP to 12%. What is your real alias, the one before you changed it to Growup5, Growup4 etc.? Oh and extend the tax reductions for the middle class but not for the job exporters.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Healthcare costs will only fall under a government plan if rationing is put into place. Anytime the "free" sign gets hung out, demand goes up, not down. So, government trips up that demand by waiting times like in Canada or just saying "no" like in England. The biggest reason for single payer is just to keep the government plan from being embarrassed.

Who do you suppose is easier to defraud: 1) A private insurance that gives a shit about the money; 2) The government that doesn't give a shit because it doesn't belong to anyone? LOL. The easiest mark of all time remains the federal government.

The Post Office can't adjust to something even as fucking obvious as email, but with healthcare, it's gonna be great. LOL.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

The fact that you are wrong is being demonstrated each and every day in the top 5 countries in the world in terms of %GDP and quality of outcomes. Google "Sick Around the World."

[-] 1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

No, it isn't a fact and we're not talking about somewhere else, we're talking about here. There's nothing in the experience of American government that suggests anything you've said would be true.

Google Post Office and email. Google Canada and wait times.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

It is a fact. As long as you try to invent a unique solution in the presence of lobbyists with virtually unlimited bribery budgets you won't produce anything competitive with the rest of the world. American "exceptionalism" has us on course to be fully third world in the next decade. Healthcare, education, technology, corruption, .....

We don't need a unique solution. We need one that works. We have a guy right here who has done it for Taiwan, sans lobbyists, and that has resulted in something hugely better than we have now.

William Hsiao is a professor of economics at the Harvard School of Public Health and co-author of the 2004 book “Getting Health Reform Right.” He served as a health care adviser to the Taiwan government in the 1990s, when officials decided to reform that country’s health care system and to introduce universal coverage.

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health-care-abroad-taiwan/

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Post Office... email.

Reform isn't that hard. 1) End 50 state duplicative regulation. It shouldn't be illegal to buy a policy across state lines. It sets up perverse local markets that are too easily dominated; 2) Kick out the illegals. The more non-payers in the country, the higher costs go for everyone else; 3) Stop the mandates. Government keeps loading policies with more. The latest is $6/month birth control. Honest to God, buying birth control via buying healthcare insurance makes nothing cheaper. It shouldn't be illegal to buy a stripped down plan. I can rent a studio apartment and eat Ramon noodles, but with healthcare insurance it's Cadillac or do without. That's wrong; 4) Tort reform. Settle cases in a process and not in court; 5) End free. Obama does the opposite expecting costs not to rise. He went to law school, not school for economics. Everything should cost something so people respect the resources consumed. I read an article about a guy that made 600 ambulance calls. Why? Because he thought it was free. But it wasn't free. 6) Raise deductibles. Unleashing people on the system that don't even ask about costs is inherently inflationary. Try taking the prices off of everything in the grocery store and just send the bill to your home owners insurance company and see what happens to food inflation.

Government healthcare rations to control costs. It happens by simply denying care (in England many things simply aren't allowed) or by delaying care (Canada wears people down by waiting lists and simply not hiring enough doctors). Your dog can get an MRI faster than you can in Canada because vets aren't wrapped up in government.

Won't it be fun when hospitals become political play things like airports and bridges, etc are now? Can you imagine HCA EVER building a hospital that didn't make sense? Now, can you imagine a politician doing it? LOL.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Politics/story?id=7412160&page=1#.T-Edio5TEqY

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Nice recap of GOP talking points that don't solve the problem and continue to facilitate the ripping off of the individual who the GOP used to claim to protect. Their refutation is easily found by the Google so I won't bother restating them for you to ignore. You can't get close to the reasonable criteria I proposed this way.

[-] 1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

No, they really aren't. No one rips off the individual the way government does. There's no reason whatsoever to think government single payer healthcare would be anything different than the Post Office.

But as long as they don't effectively make free market care illegal as Canada does (to spare system embarrassment), then fine. But wait until government tells you everything's free and then you can't find a provider to give it to you.

You haven't refuted anything. Even cleaning up the border would help. Handing over things for free to people that have no business even being in the country makes things worse for those with their hand out that do.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Hey, what about mt defense proposal? I thought bthat was what you wanted to talk about? Now that I have solved healthcare for you, and defense. "Cut the Defense budget to that of the combined spending of the two largest potential enemies (say China and Russia)," which saves say, $500 billion per year and invest in things that actually make us strong, ECONOMICALLY strong because, if we don't do that Defense spending will go down like falling off a cliff. Because even if the Right is successful in starving the bottom 20% into oblivion, there still won't be as much money as we are projected to spend. Does the North Korean model really have that much appeal for you?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

You are looking through the wrong end of the tube and I can never fix that. The problem has been solved several times, not perfectly, but immeasurably better than we have done as the NUMBERS show, (Gotta admire the serious effort by the GOP the previous 8 years, they almost fixed it, almost as well as they did education. What was that? Oh, everyone left behind.) and much better than you (or me) can invent your first try.

The Harvard guy has many of the fine tuning changes identified for Taiwan. But even without them, they have us beat.

Haven't refuted anything? The burden isn't on me I identified superior systems that are working today. What do your changes do for meeting the criteria I set? Not nearly enough. That is why after advocating them for 4 years as an alternative, the GOP still has NO NUMBERS. Cut total costs, raise performance for everyone, increase satisfaction, make us competitive. How?

[-] 1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Leftists have a fantasy of a government that always says "yes". Meanie companies say "no". Just wait. Rationing via outright "no" or "yes" and you can't find a provider is what it means. That's the only way "free" doesn't bankrupt the country.

[-] 1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

We're not Taiwan.

There's no reason to think the government of the Post Office will do any better with health care. There's no reason whatsoever to think government would improve performance or increase satisfaction. Zippo.

The only way government could possibly cut cost is through rationing. That'll entail outright telling you no, or telling you less and then you being unable to find service. It's already happening in Medicaid. Eat all you want, but you find the restaurant. Medicare and to a much greater extent Medicaid already cover less than does typical private insurance. In places like Europe, their biggest cost save is in denying care by simply not providing some treatments (in particular, end of life care).

I have employees in England. NHS sucks so bad, we give them private insurance. It's also bankrupt and runs near 7% absenteeism.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Since our government has been taken over by special interests, it is a bit disingenuous, to criticize it for not working well. It has done what those in control wanted it to do: a) facilitate them in ripping off the 99%, half of whole aren't happy about it, and b) discredit itself by doing anything that doesn't serve their interests badly so that they can make the claims you are repeating.What you are saying is obviously untrue because other governments are doing it. We are not__ is totally irrelevant. If you will check, they weren't doing either, until they did it. The VA is doing it far better than private insurance is and much cheaper with higher approval of the members oof the system. Could they do it even better? Sure.Does Medicare do it better and cheaper than private insurance with higher satisfaction ? Yes. Can it be improved? Sure. There a lot of better soliuitions to choose from, if you really want a solution. But they are not as welcoming of corruption, and if that is what must be preserved at all costs, all costs is what you will keep. We take 60-80% more medication than we need for optimum health. Why? Because we advertize to end users exaggerated benefits and we bribe doctors to push drugs, that they rationalize "it won't hurt them" but they do. And for off label uses that have never been tested.

If you are going to leave all of the corruption in place, you won't get the benefit of a non corrupt system.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

my private insurance covered nothing when I had it

they would always find a reason not to pay medical expenses

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

And it's "no surprise" that the corrupt political, and financial elite brought the world to the brink of a world-wide depression, and the music hasn't stopped playing yet as we both know. We have been paying, and continue to pay for their malfeasance. That is not very conservative, or even capitalistic of you to support this dynamic, is it?

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Yeah, the student loan bubble should've be able to run even further. Housing inflation should've continued some more too and public unions should've been able to rot out our municipal finances even further before people started to notice. The party would've gone on forever without those nasty financial elite. LOL.

Better choices before a bigger hand-out. It's not asking for much.

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Who created the unrealistic housing bubble that crashed the world economy?? Ding...ding...ding!

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Why, banksters, of course. That's an excellent argument for students continue to make bad choices with debt and education and for a doubling-down of subsidy to fuel yet more tuition inflation.

Liberals viewed easy housing money as virtually a civil rights issue. Maxine Waters called subprime a wonderful innovation. Let's double-down on student loans; it's a civil right.

Your neighbors have a right to ask for better choices before you ask for yet more money. Radical, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yga7TlsA-1A

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

It is so nice and tidy when you can compartmentalize your views by concentrating on one thing, and then running with it. I wish I could do that as it would save so much time. lol Certainly you are not blaming this mess on poor people and the CRA, are you?? Weren't you here back in Sept. and Oct. when kids in their teens could have explained the whole sordid affair to you? We don't have to walk you through that again, do we?

It is projected in the next the next ten years only one in the twenty most needed jobs in this country will require a college education. Hmmm...where did all those high end jobs go?

Bailing out the bankers in a capitalist economy....conservative, huh? lol

[-] -2 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Projected by whom? Many jobs don't need the kind of degrees and the quality of education many are getting now. Many are simply mis-educated and graduate being pretty much useless. But the demand for people that are genuinely educated continues to grow and income continues to follow it.

Please, don't share your foolishness with any younger people you might know.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I share the facts that I learn. I do not parrot the conservative or liberal party line, and use their catchy little phrases to further my argument. The job careers that are missing for the educated young are spread wide and far. Our universities are some of the best in the world, and that is why there are so many foreign students enrolled in them. It is not because all of our young people have degrees in art history that we are in the precarious situation that we are in.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Sure, you wouldn't want to parrot anything you heard... banksters did it. Thats 100%, end of story. Your over-borrowed neighbors had nothing to do with it. LOL.

We do have good universities. But you might notice that you don't see many Chinese students here taking Women's Studies. LOL.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Your understanding of how the money works its way down the system is shameful at best.

They always use politicians to parade their garbage. Hence Bush's big hoopla "Ownership Society"....as in, open up your wallets, we are going to flood the planet with cheap money.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Of course it is. I need an occutard to school me. LOL.

Bankers bad, borrowers good. Hence Maxine Waters calling subprime mortgages a wonderful innovation.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Do you even know the percentage of mortgages that have gone under since the collapse?

There were borrowers who did things they shouldnt have. They pale in comparision to the derivatives unraveling from the realization that AAA isnt AAA.

I could care less about Maxine Waters. Her job is to appeal to a certain voting base. Whether she does it well is something I could care even less about.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Gosh, some borrowers did things they shouldn't have? I don't believe it!

You care about George Bush, just not Maxine Waters. I understand.

Let's make the world safer so that we can continue to have incompetent people run pension funds. It's wrong that the institutions they trade with and compete don't make things easier for them. LOL. Once we've made things safe for incompetents, let's hope it stays that way forever and ever.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

We already made things safe for the incompetents. It's called Too Big To Fail.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I could care less about Bush too. I told you he is just a mouthpiece. His job, like Maxine, is to appeal to a base.

I've heard all the Republican this and Democrat stuff for the blame of this. Its all crap.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Harvey Dent for president

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

The bankers through bribes to politicians set up this whole irresponsible system which was fueled by more stupidity. They preyed on the most unsophisticated people with with sub-prime loans, often ignoring assets in which people could have qualified for conventional loans. Then they sold $300,000 homes to people who worked at Wall Mart. No one cared as they had no skin in the game. And if that weren't enough, they repackaged these shitty mortgages and sold them as investment grade products. When they knew the house of cards was getting ready to crumble, they then bet against these MBS, but continued to promote them to unwary pension funds, etc. The bankers deserve to be in prison.

[-] 1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

What? Borrowers were stupid. Gosh, the door cracks open to the concept of personal responsibility.

Credit was demanded by people and politicians. It was debt mania as debt was seen as something that made life better. Denying someone debt was seen damn near as denying them their civil rights.

It still hasn't stopped. Variants of this story were around yesterday. Honest to God, it's STILL seen as a problem that poor credit risks are being harmed by access to too LITTLE credit.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/fed-ponders-solution-growth-credit-gap

"Unwary" pension fund managers shouldn't be pension fund managers. You can't place dummies in charge of money and expect that to turn out well. Smarten up.

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

No it was not that, "Credit was demanded by people and the politicians that caused the economic crises we are in." Rather it was an irresponsible, stupid system that was "demanded" by the bankers who were bored to tears of the mundane, yet responsible banking world. They wanted to turn this world into the wild west so that they could reap astronomical profits, and to hell with everyone else.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Borrowers represent goodness, no matter what. LOL.

[-] -2 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I never said, or insinuated that "borrowers represent goodness," did I? Some people were stupid, and others just got fleeced, as many unsophisticated borrowers were targeted by unscupulous lenders.

I did however imply that the banks opened the doors to all the irresponsible behaviour that ensued. And they profited greatly until there corrupt little contrivance fell apart leaving the rest of us holding the bag in countless ways. They, the bankers orchestrated the scheme that has caused immense human misery all over the world. It's that simple, and you know it.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Great, you're back with "prey". Explain to me, if you will, the loss of the subprime borrower.

Still, nothing about incompetent people running pension funds. Yeah, it's wrong that incompetence ever meets someone smarter. We definitely should be able to count on doing a lousy job and not having consequences. Make the world safe for stupidity, that's what I say. LOL.

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

The bankers are the sleeze-balls that enabled all the irresponsible activity to occur, and you know it. They are responible for crashing the world's economy.

[-] 0 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Whew, good things borrowers had nothing to do with it, especially the greed of those that would do anything to get in on real estate inflation. I'm relieved too that there wasn't any greed in people that so badly wanted stuff, that they'd borrow themselves senseless to have it.

Should pension funds be "unwary"? Do you think it's a good idea to have "unwary" people running pension funds and then simply depending on much smarter people not running them over? Sure, that part of the system was fine, it was just the bad people that were smarter. What world do you live in?

Anyone entrusted to manage money, especially at the institutional level, should know that every CDS contract has two sides to the trade. For someone to go long housing risk in CDS, THERE HAD TO BE SOMEONE GOING SHORT. You're completely missing what happened to not be aware that the real problem was insufficiently competent people running some very large accounts. No, no, that's fine, just make sure everyone places nice-nice with the short-bus crowd. It doesn't work that way Markets are fast pitch baseball. Better bring your glove, slugger.

At least you had the sense not to double-down on your ridiculous "preyed on the most unsophisticated" statement.

[-] -2 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

One more time, none of the subsequent irresponsible behavior would have been able to transpire if it were not for the bankers greed in setting up this system where they made a windfall. No one had anything to lose for making bad loans, very unlike the system that was in place prior to all this. The ratings agencies who gave out the investment grade ratings on these shitty mortgage backed securities were in cahoots with the bankers due to a perverse compensation method. The higher the grade the more business, and hence money they got from the banks. And yes the mortgage lenders did PREY on the most unsophisticated borrowers.

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Preyed on them? Many of them got into houses with no money down. If the market had continued to go up, they'd have made money after paying fees. The analogy is that many of these people got very cheap call options of real estate struck maybe 5%-10% out of the money (if you know what a call option is). They're hardly victims. When they defaulted, they typically simply entered a free rent period while the foreclosure process worked it's way through. Reality is, the subprime crowd did a smart thing. They won if housing went up and walked without consequence when it didn't.

Please, tell me specifically what a subprime borrower with nothing down lost. I'd love to know. They are, after all, victims.

But the problem wasn't just that. It was widespread greed for housing gains and a casualness about being in debt. It also wasn't just housing. People borrowed the shit of everything they could. It was a reckless era of easy money and very willing borrowers.

[-] -2 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

The whole world-wide economy lost big time because of this unrealistic system that was set up by the corrupt bankers, and their cohorts. None of the subseqent stupidity would have been able to take place if it were not for the greedy bankers who set this no lose (for them) self-enriching fucked up system of doing banking.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

How many crashes has capitalism had?

[-] -1 points by Growup5 (-84) 2 years ago

Many. Nothing's perfect, but it remains the best system for creating a good standard of living and not quashing freedom.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

We forgive capitalism. We forgive banksters. We punish students. In most dictionaries, this is the definition of scapegoat.

[-] -1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"I have forgiven Jesus."

-Morrisey

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Sounds like a personal problem.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the stock market?

the fed?

the bank loaners? higher prices means greater return in interest

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Right...you win a beautiful Amana oven! And they all had the up-side potential while we had the down-side.

[-] 3 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

This of course does not include the budgets for the increasingly militarized State and Local Police units.

Notice how the cops wear black and not blue anymore?

Also... we produce 40% of the arms on the planet. Think about that for a moment.

The US has also supported more dictatorships than communist Russia. Many of these dictators were put into power after ousting democratically elected governments (remember Iran?).

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

"Iran is the prize in the center." - Cheney portrayed in W by Oliver Stone.

[-] 3 points by bklynsboy (834) 2 years ago

Endless war and interventions bleeds us and destroys everything in America except weapons industries. Bin Laden's goal succeeds.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Yes we are going the way of the Roman Empire when it fell due to trying to hold on to, and exapand itself. We are bankrupting ourselves both morally, and financially in the process.

[-] 2 points by bklynsboy (834) 2 years ago

We are following the same path that bankrupted and destroyed the USSR.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Yes, I agree we are bankrupting ourselves financially, and morally. Bill Moyers did an interview with a former Lt. Colonel, now a professor on Moyers and Co., and Cspan did a three hour interview with Chris Hedges (both googleable and highly recommended by me) called Brace Yourself th American Empire is.... Both of these together made me realize, more than ever that we are on a destructive path. We have the chance to be an important player in the world, but it will not be the same as it was. The sooner we realize that, the better off we will be.

[-] 2 points by bklynsboy (834) 2 years ago

The sole reason is windfall profits from war.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

The bigger picture is our corrupt system which lets that occur.

[-] 2 points by bklynsboy (834) 2 years ago

Congress, both parties and the pres are bought off except ron paul.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I agree with the first part of your assessment entirely, and I do think that Paul has some good things to say. But I would replace him with Kucinich, or Sanders. Overall though both parties, and almost all the people that inhabit them stink big time.

[-] 2 points by bklynsboy (834) 2 years ago

completely agree! War for profits, America crumbles.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Good....we've reached consensus! OWS would be proud of us. Lol

[-] 3 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 2 years ago

Sources please.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Kucinich sources Congressiona Quarterly and the Associated Press. Kucinich is a member of the House of Representatives so he is a source himself when it comes to actions in congress. You could also google HR 4310 and read sections 1221 and 1222 for policy toward Iran.

I read his press releases here - http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentQuery.aspx?DocumentTypeID=461:496:499:500:501:502:518:651:1130:1336

[-] 3 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 2 years ago

Thank you.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

When the GOP was promoting the privatizing of the military, everybody thought we would all be able to buy as much military as we wanted. For example, I want about 20% of my private payments to the government to be spent to buy military.

Instead they took my money and spent 60% of it on private mercenaries, private oil services companies like Halliburton, and private intelligence/ personal protection firms mike Blackwater (Xe).

I think I'll sue them for breach of contract, fraud, malfeasance, and misapproriation of funds. What do you think?

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

the military is still being privatized.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Of course it is.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I think the government is fully corrupt.

Civilians were murdered to protect KBR convoys in Iraq. KBR is still getting contracts despite their history of human trafficking, overcharging, and other forms of corruption.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

No, there are two, three, maybe more that are still honest. The neocons are to defense as the NRA is to guns.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

60% is too much! What if we spent that much on our own country instead of blowing up others and then paying for their "nation building" ?

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

A very relevant pie-chart : http://www.warresisters.org/sites/default/files/FY2012piechart-color.pdf .

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Romney Plans To Grow Military Spending While Cutting Revenue", by Eli Clifton : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31640.htm . ad iudicium !

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

That's happening now too.

Military spending growing... revenue decreasing.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"The Great Transformation : From the Welfare State to the Imperial Police State", by James Petras : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31873.htm ;

"America's Runaway Military Spending", by Lawrence S. Wittner : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26183.htm &

"World’s Sole Military Superpower’s 2 Million-Troop, $1 Trillion Wars", by Rick Rozoff : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24298.htm .

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I read the third one.

"Boeing, Raytheon and General Electric won’t be kept waiting."

Cool link

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

IF "cool" = frightening too, then yep, cool. lol !!!

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Also 'fyi' : "Africom is Spreading its Activity Throughout the Continent" :

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

To be fair, a lot of that money does get spent here at home. The defense industry and military employs millions of Americans and they are typically fairly good jobs. Many are even union jobs. Spending a lot of money on defense is not necessarily a bad thing, it is when the money is being spent on offensive measures that it becomes a problem.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

it is when wars are costing trillions and is killing civilians abroad.

the offensive is indeed the problem.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Victory need no defense Freedom WE

[-] -2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

light rail might be a good transition for military steal factories

[-] 2 points by junglemonkeez (208) 2 years ago

America should be afraid and have the largest military. It has wronged the most and should likewise fear the most.

I imagine there are many who wish to do to the U.S. what it has done to them. That is just common sence.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Seems that includes Mother Nature just trying to compensate with the damages to innocents Stop ALL War Freedom causes no harm and at only 10% of wages pays for Justice

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

The World is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real, because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round, and it has thrills and chills and is very brightly colored, and it's very loud. And it's fun, for a while.

Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they've begun to question, 'Is this real, or is this just a ride?', and other people have remembered, and they've come back to us and they say 'Hey, don't worry. Don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride.' and we KILL THOSE PEOPLE.

"Shut him up! We have alot invested in this ride! SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account, and my family. This just has to be real."

It's just a ride.

But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that. You ever noticed that? And let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter, because ... It's just a ride.

And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings of money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear wants you to put bigger locks on your door, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead see all of us as one.

Here's what we can do to change the world right now, to a better ride:

Take all that money we spent on weapons and defense each year and instead spend it feeding, clothing, and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and WE CAN EXPLORE SPACE, TOGETHER, BOTH INNER AND OUTER, forever ... in peace.--------Bill Hicks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

I second and live to make it so Lovin' you This shall be and the rest shall be left behind FREEDOM

[-] 1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

Disgusting

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Preparing for war with Iran nuclear submarine hits a boat - http://rt.com/news/uss-jacksonville-hormuz-periscope-fishing-boat-809/

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

That's a good question, I think they vote that way because they really either don't have a clue what their rep does, or they just vote on party lines, or maybe they have other pet issues they care about more?

Republicans and democrats are great at playing on social fears to get votes and continue their warmongering agenda as a "necessary evil." People need to wake up and stop voting for these clowns altogether.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

tv media and money in politics. People are easily duped by tv.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

yea really... I don't have a t.v., but now that you mention it I'm visiting my parents today and I turned on CNN quickly just to see what was up... and wow, they don't call that thing an idiot box for nothing. :p

.. I don't see how that can even be called news, its like a bad soap opera..

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It's called Infotainment, with a big focus on the 'tainment.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

They report politician talking points like they're facts. It's fucked.

[-] 1 points by grimblecrumble (63) 2 years ago

Listened to a talk on NPR a while back about the Pentagon's plans for the future. They are planning for constant war and security services (blackwater, etc) becoming our chief export.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

International Development Solutions is the most current name change of Black Water that I'm aware of.

[-] 1 points by grimblecrumble (63) 2 years ago

Somewhat of a moot point given the War Powers Act circumventing congressional approval for declaration of war. By 90 days in we're already hopelessly committed and from that point on it's too easy to paint any opposition as unpatriotic. Rescinding the WPA (or at least severely reducing the time frame) might avoid us getting into wars in the first place.

[-] 1 points by Misaki (893) 2 years ago

I read that the Pentagon spends something like 1/3 of its budget on health care.

Give other countries, like Afghanistan, jobs instead of bombs!

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Yeah and Defense spending is going to be 60% of federal discretionary spending.

I always thought Martin Luther King's plan based on his "I have a dream" speech worked much better than bombs and sanctions. Seriously, black people were treated horribly for the longest time. And instead of them just deciding to kill all the white people they decided to work together for peace. It took time but look at where our country is at now. Peace works. People just need to believe.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

So then when we are out of Washington DC making laws in our free country the people will automatically pay 60% less taxes! Cool see how fast change happens!

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Let's not use double speak here. Call it what it really is, war spending.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Simple, because they aren't voting for political leaders, they are voting for theologians. If it sounds irrational, thats because it is. The right votes for a christian version of Iran, a theocracy that is forbidden by the first amendment so they have to hide behind things they know to be false. Secondly, racism. Racism is also an unacceptable platform so it is embedded deep within talking points. You are witnessing the power of hate my friend. People with hate in their hearts will sell the skin right off their own back if they think it will satisfy their inner demons. The right knows this and this is the demographic they are surfing into power on. People that can't even cope with algebra trying to convince you that making rich people richer is good for the working class? Are they so eager to live under the thumb of others, or is it more likely they are working under the Good-Ol-Boy unspoken agreement? This is what makes it so inconceivable that Obama has just jumped right on board with all of this. They have a name for this exact type of sucking up.

[-] 0 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

Congress is made up of very rich people.You know the kind that do not fight the wars just profit off them.You know the one percent that givesback to America Zero of anything.But they always talk like patriots.just never act like it.To them America is only a machine to make them money.When that stops for them they abandon ship.

[-] 0 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

You idiots. Entitlement spending is 60% of the budget. Defense is less than a quarter of that. ObamaCare is over $500 billion a year. The annual deficit during Bush was $200 billion and now it is far over $1.2 trillion! Just cut entitlement spending entirely and let people take care of themselves. They have for thousands of years.

There is only one thing that you must absolutely be the best at is war. Second best won't win the war. And Obama is exactly a strong leader like Churchill or Reagan who would stand up to our enemies. Iran, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and all the other various terrorist groups want to kill us. Russia already proved they are willingly to attack when they invaded Georgia.

The Navy implosion is going to leave us defenseless by 2050. The Air Force's arsenal is being degraded not upgraded. They're replacing the F-22, the most advanced fighter to be built, is being disbanded and replaced by a fifth-generation fighter. Not only that, but Obama sold out our European allies and decided to get rid the missile defense system in late development. And with Iran reaching nuclear capability, that system will be necessary. Defense is the one of the few necessary things in the budget. And as % of GDP, we are only eighth in defense spending.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

Nuts.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

uno mas

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

outrageous

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[-] -1 points by RealityTime (-224) 2 years ago

If you want war, drop your defenses.

[-] 1 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

Thank you! This is exactly what Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia, China, North Korea, Hamas, Hezbollah, A.Q.I.P., Al Qaeda, the Taliban, L.R.A., and all those other evil, freedom-hating people are waiting for. You cannot be second best in war. Second best doesn't win the battle. Entitlement spending is over 60% of the budget. The whole War on Terror cost about $1 trillion over a decade. ObamaCare is $500 billion a year!

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Weird.... because every year our defense budget increases... we seem to be getting more war.

[-] 0 points by RealityTime (-224) 2 years ago

You're wrong, we're getting less war.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

How many countries have we bombed in the past few years?

Also keep in mind that the US pays for 25% of NATO's budget.

[-] -1 points by RealityTime (-224) 2 years ago

Not that many. Conflict has been steadily falling with the U.S. managing global security.

We invaded Iraq, rid them of a ruthless dictator, and gave them a change at freedom if they're capable of taking it. I know leftists were upset by that. We invaded Afghanistan after their leadership conspired with those that killed 3,000 Americans on 9-11. Those Taliban were great though. Liberals can't wait until we leave and resume burning down schools and murdering people that teach girls. We're also attacked our enemies in Pakistan and Yemen. Again, I know, liberals are upset because 7th muslim tyranny beats American tyranny. I suppose too Libya where we shamefully helped them topple another murdering dictator. We're just bad. LOL.

Loons like you are the product of being so well protected that you start to think the protector is the bad guy.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Not just liberals. A lot of Ron Paul conservatives agree the wars need to end.

We're not the world police. We can't choose sides in civil wars. We can act in defense... also I supported going to Afghanistan to take out the Taliban and Osama.... but what's being done there does not fit with what our initial goal was.

I think bombing all these countries and putting sanctions on them with the UN only puts our country at a greater risk for terrorist attacks.

The wars have expanded to Pakistan, Libya, Yemen, and soon maybe Syria or Iran.

Iraq was not a threat to the US. Libya was not a threat to the US.

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

The USGS has found over $1 Trillion dollars in precious metals and rare earth elements in Afghanistan:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?pagewanted=all

[-] 0 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

These wars were already there decades before we came there. Terrorism is sponsored by Syria and Iran so they don't have to worry about car bombings in their country. They just tell the terrorists to car bomb the schools we built in Afghanistan.

[-] -1 points by RealityTime (-224) 2 years ago

A lot of the people thought the nation could just hide too during the 30s. They continue to be wrong.

Appeasement doesn't work. Our enemies hate us anyways. Appeasement just delays inevitable conflict. It's better to confront our enemies as they are. Conflict may spread, but pretending there isn't conflict is just a naive way of delaying things.

By supporting the dictator's toppling, a dictator that already had killed Americans, we gave the people a chance at a better life at almost no cost to us.

Iraq was part of a bigger problem. They'd been a periodic threat to us and even attempted to assassinate one of our presidents. Iraq was a risk to create a model of a better, dictator-free, form of government amid a very backward and violent culture that extends well outside Iraq's borders. Showing them something better put all the dictatorships at risk. The Left, of course, declared defeat at the exact height of the insurgency's power. Nice one!

American power has brought conflict to its low point in human history. Just a little fact for an America hating liberal to choke on.

[-] 0 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

We really should be elsewhere. Like Uganda, Sierra Leone, and another fifteen countries. Terrorist groups, militants, and corrupt dictators have killed millions of innocent already. When Britain tried to do something, liberals applauded them but when we considered helping them in saving millions of innocent lives, those same liberals did everything in their power to stop. And they unfortunately did and millions are dead because of them.

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[+] -12 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

bomb foreign nations

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

We could ride the bombs down like Chill Wills in Doctor Strangelove. Or, better yet, we should require all pro-war politicians to do just that. Maybe RealityTime will volunteer since he's so hell-bent on destruction.

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[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Make those politicians who support the wars go out and stay on the front lines and take point on patrol, send their corporate arms making buddies with em.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Paint bullseyes on all their chests. They've made too many Americans into cannon fodder already. It's their turn.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Give em glittery decorations on their helmets.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Yeah, with little propellors on top.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

LOL - they can pretend they are wearing ivy league beanies.

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[-] -1 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

McCain was tortured in the line of duty and still wanted to continue the War on Terror. He understood what the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and the 200 other terrorist groups do to people. Because people did those same unspeakable acts to him. I just have one question for you. Are you willing to serve your nation or are you just going to condemn the heroes who fight for your rights?

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

McCain was known as a 'talker'.

[-] -2 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

Would you talk if they removed your ability to move your arms above your shoulders and ripped out your fingernails? Are you just going to talk trash about people who were tortured serving their country or are you just too much of a coward to actually fight for your nation? Are you really going to let others die for your right to insult their memories? I am disgusted with you. Go to hell for all I care.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

you sound hysterical

[-] -1 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

So you think spitting on our heroes graves is just a big joke? Do you just don't care that they gave the ultimate sacrifice so you had the right not to care? You're an ungrateful, parasitic, bitching, useless, selfish, sniveling coward.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

The military allows people that are almost as dumb as you in, but not quite as dumb.

[-] -1 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

It's funny how you never attack our arguments but you only make lies about the person who proved you wrong.

[-] -1 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

Hahaha, I have a perfect GPA and a genius IQ. You know OWS doesn't have a minimum IQ but the military does.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

I'm sure your genius IQ will keep you out of the military. Good for you.

[-] -1 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

Funny, I come from a military family. I'm waiting to turn 18 so I can do ROTC.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

John McCain and the USA should never have been in Vietnam.

Our men and women of the military should not be in the middle east.

I support them just not those who sent them.

So eat shit Non-sense2345.

I was wondering when you shit heads would try to play the UN-American card. Fuck you.

Americas enemy's today are domestic - listen to an American hero address the subject.

This is the all time best speech ever. I also put it out on twitter. If people want a blast of reality straight out of government - then they need to hear this speech. Bernie Sanders in full rant.

http://link.upworthy.com/4fcfcb2462047742c9927ebbi92r.48p/T9iCqi0W1Y4m0TA2C5066

[-] 0 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

Do honestly have any idea what the NVA and VC did to the innocent civilians of Vietnam? Do you have idea of the genocide that took place? Or do you just not care enough about the lives of innocent Vietnamese? When you go out and fight alongside those brave men and women and sit in your basement and talk about how evil they are for fighting for you, I might just have a little respect for you. But since you are an ungrateful coward, I think you don't deserve the freedom they died for until you understand exactly how far away Mogadishu is.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I grew up during those days - I watched the war on TV - I studied the issues as they happened in school. I also studied about the French who were there before us ( USA ). I missed the draft by a couple of months. Yeah - I am familiar with Vietnam. Where is your hue and cry for the Cambodians and the killing fields the Khmer Ruge Pol Pot?

We should not have been in Vietnam - we should have offered sanctuary to their people - teachers and business and governmental people. But we should never have been there as the war was never fought to be won - in the 1st place.

[-] 1 points by CommonSense2345 (-5) 2 years ago

It's funny how the left works. We go to Iraq to get rid of Saddam Hussein who killed a lot of people and we get condemned for saving lives. Same with Vietnam. If we try to go to Uganda or Sierra Leone or Cambodia or Pakistan, you call us warmongers. But if we don't go, then we are cold and heartless. There is just no pleasing you, is there?

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

That is a silly statement especially considering the left is not as orthodoxical as the right. Sure the right are always saying the same thing about every issue, they speak and act with one brain. Where as the left is sporadic in belief, you may get some liberals to speak out against wars for resources while others are more concerned with human rights issues, the right are a united front. It's kinda funny, the party of rugged individualism is more communal in thought than the left. At least those who are liberal have minds of their own and are more inclined to side step talking points.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

17 you say? You have much to learn. Genius IQ ? Well anything is possible I knew a math genius when I worked at CDC - he did computer math verification = he verified that the computers actually came up with the right answer to a problem that was given them to solve. He did the work in his head and often times had the answer before the computers did. This guy flooded his car out in the parking lot one day - you could smell the gas - but this guy opened the hood took off the air cleaner cover lit a match to look down the throat of the carb - manually pumped the gas and singed off his eye lashes eye brows and singed the hair off the front of his head.

I was happy how we stepped in with Libya and blew up the military vehicles that were slaughtering the civilian population - no boots on the ground no civilian casualties due to our action. The civilians were then allowed to finish defending themselves.

I think we should do the same in Syria and anywhere else it is needed as long as the targets are clear and can be taken cleanly.

Don't try to twist my words or try to tell me what I am thinking. Live learn measure and weigh. Life is not black and white.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Hell if their children are of military age send them along too. So they don't get lonely send their spouse along as well - but no fraternization while on assignment - you need to stay alert and watch out for the eminey. Sides you fuck around out there and the real troops might just not care to be near you.

[-] -2 points by RealityTime (-224) 2 years ago

Deter foreign nations. But appeasing and retreating just makes it worse later.

[+] -5 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

ban the bomb

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Did you really get down voted for saying that?

Why is banning the bomb a problem now?

Ban the all the bombs and the land mines too.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Did you see his previous comment?

[-] 4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Matt is one of the strongest anti-war posters here.

He was being sarcastic.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Oooooh. Time to take a coffee break. Thanks.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

It's OK. The forum has gotten pretty crazy since the bot runners have decided to hijack it.

I hope that's not what OWS has become.

It would be a real shame.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I have been here long enough to have figured that he was being sarcastic. I just had a lapse. Anyway, i voted him back up.

[+] -5 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

yep

but it's really about positioning

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

How about, ban hand guns.

Will that be bot attacked too?

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Apparently - you were voted down to zero when I stopped by.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Cowards with bots be like that.

Pure 100%, anti 99% cowards.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What I think is funny is the sock puppet thinks I care about the karma score. Blind marching sock puppets.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

They're just jealous.

Jealous little cowards like thrassy.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You think that's it?

It has no friends and would like to be popular but does not know how to do it.

So it strikes out at those it perceives as being popular?

Thereby also getting the attention it wants - negative though it may be - and then it votes for it's own comments to feed the fantasy?

WoW - how messed up is that?

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

It's as messed up as a thrassy bot.

Perhaps it is the troll formerly known as OWSleader.

It act's like it wants to be that.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You mean like they pick on those that they are jealous of?

People who are standing up for their fellow man?

Because they are not strong enough in themselves to do the same?


[-] 1 points by shooz (7263) 1 minute ago

It's shame is what it is.

Shameful cowardly behavior.

I've noticed that they did not attack obvious OWS attackers.

Nor the "right" wingers that posted here today,or any other day. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

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[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You mean it's his way or the Highway?

Good thing no one is going along with that!!!!!!

As I think he gets lost in his direction from moment to moment.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

It's a shame is what it is.

Shameful cowardly behavior.

I've noticed that they did not attack obvious OWS attackers.

Nor the "right" wingers that posted here today,or any other day.

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[+] -5 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

search engine will categorize it

[-] 0 points by RealityTime (-224) 2 years ago

Sure, that sounds possible. Let's disarm and just see what happens. If bad things happen, oh well, that's peace for ya.

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

How about we put everything into perspective instead of focusing on only one thing. Seems to me that "Defense Speinding" is only a fraction of overall spending:

Here is a link that explains it all:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes only a fraction of overall spending = 6/10


[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-172) 1 day ago

How about we put everything into perspective instead of focusing on only one thing. Seems to me that "Defense Speinding" is only a fraction of overall spending

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Things would be a lot different if congress had shares in medicare and the scholastic system, rather than the military industrial complex, and haliburton/blackwater.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Ummm - not so sure they don't - I mean in for profit insurance and education - that is.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

If you think about it, spending that much on defense, when nobody is really threatening you, there must be someone making a shitload of cash on the deal/s.

Raytheon, Boeing, et al.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You bet Halliburton and the current black-water as well - only I would not call it defense spending - something more along the lines of securing foreign resources spending - I think.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yes, there must be an active threat to call it defense spending.

I think all but the slowest have wised up to the conjured arab islamist hoodoo.

Saudis are funding both sides, and heavily investing in the US.

Last I heard, the Mujahedin (al qaeda) are back on the payroll.

Strange days, indeed; most peculiar momma.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I mean consider how easy they were to enlist to go into Syria - nope they have never been off of the payroll.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Gives "rent-a-crowd" a kind of new slant.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - and many applications - look at all of the BS in Africa - look at the usual suspects that are involved - hell alkidya hanging out / staging from Pakistan - ya think ol BenLaden was a little surprised by his early morning visit?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

No body, no evidence.

I heard he was visited on his death bed in a Saudi hospital a decade or so before that op.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Hell - he may have just been relocated - was not much of a reaction over there to his supposed death.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

The gov there was pretending that they were responsible for the drone strikes.

Money talks, and bullshit walks. We might never know what really happened.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is all a mess of money and set-ups. And it is happening large scale all over the place. Shock Doctrine ( like inside job - in it's own way ) gives you a look at some of the machinations that are used.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I don't think they were ever off of the payroll. Sad fucking days - very sad.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yes, I suspect that you're right.

Was watching a video about the 7/7 subway attacks in London, and how a guy made a video showing that it was a black flag op.

He was arrested, and when the judge watched his video, he was released without charge. His video, of course, got pulled, and now there's hundreds of "debunked" vids clouding any evidence.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Shock Doctrine.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Okay, I'm gonna watch it again.

Thanks, and goodnite/morning/evening to you, DKA.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

G-Day - and later on.

[+] -4 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

All this spending on war while 1 in 7 Americans are on food stamps, 22% of our children live in poverty, 49 million have no health insurance, and on and on. Priorities messed up much?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

and they pay hired contractors more than the troops too.

[+] -4 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

Exactly. And, the former officers go and work for these contractors after they retire from the military. What a scheme.

[+] -4 points by beautifulworld (21572) 2 years ago

I just read this, but it's nowhere in MSM. U.S. drone strike hits mosque and kills 10 people in prayer:

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/national/25-May-2012/us-drone-strike-hits-mosque-10-killed

[+] -4 points by beautifulworld (21572) 2 years ago

Fear and greed, that's what drives this. There are a lot of people making big money off of these wars and a small number support the wars simply out of fear.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Wall Street makes money on the wars. All those military contracts going out to private corps.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Eisenhower warned us of the military industrial complex three months into his Presidency, and then again in his farewell speech.

[+] -5 points by beautifulworld (21572) 2 years ago

Exactly. Greed is driving this probably more than fear. They use the fear-mongering to get the American people on their side.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

It turns out they don't even need our support to continue the neocon war legacy. They just continue it anyway.

[+] -5 points by beautifulworld (21572) 2 years ago

True that!

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[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yeah - I Mean - WTF??????????????????

Is this our new industry?

Is this how we are going to stimulate the economy?

Is our GDP going to become our children being sent off to raid other countries?

Is this what the war on women is about? Get them to stay at home and then have children for the war machine?

Is this why our educational system is failing? Because we want to raise cannon fodder?

Is this the new world corporations have envisioned for us?

A world of smoking ruins and toxic water land and air?

WTF????????????????????

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Oh well They shall be left behind We do know what is happening and that description is as far away as can be WE shall be of Peace and Freedom cause no harm for 10% of you earnings is the cost of Justice in free land.

[-] 0 points by bklynsboy (834) 2 years ago

This is the Soviet path: endless money to the military while everything else crumbles. Afghanistan broke them too.

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Can not anyone look at history and see the downfall of policies and practices that starve their society? That do not promote fellowship? That do not promote health?

Time and long past time for the world to wake up and pay attention.

[-] 1 points by bklynsboy (834) 2 years ago

Those that don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Such stupidity!

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

A very well known and often spoken truth. And Yet? So here we are fighting corruption greed and crime.

Because a truth is well known does not mean that people are paying any attention to it or it's meaning.

We continue the fight.

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[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Those are all very good questions.

I've heard a conspiracy theory that THEY want to make more people more poor... because the poor make up the majority of the boots on the ground.

Why do they always send the poor? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUzd9KyIDrM&ob=av2n

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

The fact that poor minority kids made up a diproportionate number of those drafted into the Vietnam War is what caused MLK to break his support for the Johnson administration. His famous Beyond Vietnam speech was made at Riverside Church in upper Manhattan. There was a beautiful gathering there this past MLK day, after a candle-light march which OWS participated in.

[-] -2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Our country needs another voice as powerful as Martin Luther King's.

[-] -1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

My Dad would have agreed with you too, as he was in DC for MLK's March on Washington in 1963. I very proudly wore the Equal Rights in '63 button he brought home from there that night at Riverside Church. It was on a beautiful scarf that one of my daughters made for me. Many people asked about it, and I was glad to tell them how my Dad left the comfort, and ignorance of white America to take a stand for what he believed was just.

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Because the poor have no power - the poor have no one to stand up for them.

Because the poor are desperate to find a way out of poverty and so will risk all in that effort.

Some ( many ) see military service as the only chance they have.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Oh but they do and I shall. You have only begun to hear from me.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I suppose for future PE in schools we will see them introduce mixed martial arts training.

Is that what all of the coverage of blood sports is about these days?

Wind up the youth and get em hungry for the taste of blood.

Yes this world is going straight to hell - IF WE can not get a hold of the process and stop it and change course to healthy pursuits.

[-] 1 points by jimmycrackerson (940) from Blackfoot, ID 2 years ago

I would have loved doing martial arts in PE class. Instead of running around in circles for an hour while the teacher sat in his office "checking his e-mail"

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

MMA is an awesome skill and is great exercise.

I'm a huge UFC fan and I've trained in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Judo, and Muay Thai for a couple years... and I'm an advocate for peace!

Self defense is a very important skill and so is learning never to abuse the skill.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

I did some kind of Kung-Fu for about 3 years. Can't remember the name. It was not commercial and the instructor was against MMA. It was pretty crazy doing somersaults on a marble floor.

[-] 0 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

I trained 10th Planet jj till I tore my rotator cuff.

[-] -1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

It's a great form of exercise and a great skill. I trained at McDoyle's for Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai. I messed up my shoulder in Judo in college. It really sucked. I had to drop out of training for a year and never got back into it.

My favorite move in jiu jitsu was always the guillotine choke.

[-] 0 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

My shoulder is ok now I just cant afford it, starving student.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I agree - I also studied for some years - mixed open and closed hand fighting styles. Also for self defense. I think it is excellent training for the mind and body - if you have the right teacher and are helped to develop your frame of mind to support defense and not aggression. Every child should be taught how to defend them self. But with the military industrial corporate society we are entering into I would not see it as a good sign if it was introduced to curriculum at this point in time.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I'm wondering when they'll make a sequel to Propaganda Act of Valor. Maybe after the government decides to attack Iran. HR 4310 already steps everything up a notch in 2013. Including visible military preparations along Iran.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

We are in a world of hurt if we can not stop this cycle of war from continuing.

I know I will catch hell for it - but - read the book of revelations in the Bible - then take a good look at what is going on in the world.

Draw your own conclusions.

I have.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

it all reminds me of this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faFuaYA-daw

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You might like a movie that is available on Hulu now. Called Ip Man.

It is supposed to take place during WWII when the Japanese invaded China. The Guy the story is about is supposed to have been Bruce Lee's teacher. Subtitles but is OK.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Star-ship Troopers. Yeah not to bad for a take off of the book. The original book not the rewrite for the movie was very good.

People are led to believe ( raised to believe ) that there is no alternative that there will always be war. It is a self fulfilling prophecy. Believe it must be so and it is because you believe.

Going on that thought - are the end of days going to be a self fulfilling prophesy? Or can we change course?

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

In the movie End of Days with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Arnold wins and saves the day.

I don't believe in anything the bible says. If I did I would also have to believe in the King James version or other holy books from religions.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25086) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Who say's that you need choose one over another? How do you I or anyone else know that the Bible is the only inspired writing?

Take a read through revelations and read anything else that grabs your interest this is in part of keeping an open mind and weighing information.

Don't follow - don't volunteer to be a leader - be your own man.