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With the snow threatened and recent icy, rainy weather, I'm rethinking the value of Zucotti Park camping. While this movement got its momentum by taking it to the streets, this movement is also obviously far beyond any one place.

In short, there's no shame in deciding to de-camp (maybe just for winter, maybe for good) and refocusing "street action." Subversive action, civil disobedience, GAs, people discussing issues in the park (or a public space) etc don't need to stop - they can continue at appointed times as now, throughout the day.

I think people feel they'd be "giving in" or "wimping out" -- and it is compelling and inspiring to be in the camp or watch from afar -- but really, isn't the movement bigger than being about our egos?

There's no need for people to be freezing if they do have homes/places to stay. (I'd almost argue it's insulting to the truly homeless to suffer needlessly during bad weather -- even the homeless actually seek shelter during rough weather and they could probably use the bed and hot shower protesters are not using). Someone on another forum mentioned "Occupy Couches," putting people up, etc. That's another possibility.

Just wondering if any of this interests anyone, especially those of you in the park. (I'm keeping up w/things from my apt b/c I have various personal/professional obligations.)

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[-] 2 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

send bath robes and rain coats, and man up.

or don't.

Its not even difficult to deal with the weather if you have 4 bath robes and a good rain coat on.

add a good warm blanket and some tall boots and maybe a good umbrella, and theres nothing to run away from.

rather than trying to push or pull the occupy, empower it and then let them choose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA

I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.

Merely protesting in the streets will not bring change. In fact merely protesting in the streets is in fact a means to the end of avoiding the real work of a revolution, which consists of the evolutionary solutions, answers, problem solving process, and new political alignment we create.
This forum is absolutely disorganized. It won't be read by most people and it won't and can't function as a core organizational system.
Back at the very start of this, I petitioned the admin to add multiple sub forums and a wiki. Multiple sub forums were promised but have never arrived. I think that this tells us that the intention actually of this forum is message control and containment. The entire purpose really of this forum has always been to keep us spinning in disorganization. We are hanging out on a forum that expressly exists to actually keep us confused and disorganized.
The real work of a revolution isn't going to happen on forums, it needs to happen in a much more organized fashion using collaborative software.
The assorted other details about how to collaborate, how to work open source direct democracy, how to focus in on science instead of isms, how to become hyper rational about this, are details which are essential and crucial, without which we can predict the movement to fail.
Technically speaking we are not 99 percent, we are one tenth of one percent attempting to represent the 99 percent. Our core mission must be to communicate to and with the 99 percent, and get them to join us. This forum will not accomplish that and neither will any of the other main websites.
You can follow other people out to other wikis and other websites, where they will try to get you to get involved with what they want and their program, but frankly speaking, there is no other website and no other operation out there which understands the complexities involved with meaningful organization. In short, everyones being led to get involved here there and everywhere else, scattering the movement in directions which ultimately do not gain us critical mass, criticial momentum, or critical systemic lucidity.
I have managed to get a wiki put up and have already put on that wiki evolutionary details which make it more organized than anything else. I can't do this alone. There are 10 or so wikis now out there, most of which were created in response to my pleas for a wiki, and several of which are in domains owned and operated by some corporation, (wikia, etc) And which we can thus assume will simply be closed, shut down, or deleted if they become useful to the movement.
Probably at least half of the invites you have to go participate at some other site are people who are scamming everyone to waste time and energy, distort the movement, co opt it, and etc. When you walk off into a closet ask yourself how you know that the closet isn't created by some fed, or by some republican, or by some democrat, in order to sway things in their direction.
The only meaningful strategic option we have for real change in this country is to create a new third party, and take every political office in this country.
Once that is done, we can have an article 5 convention. If we have an article 5 convention before getting rid of the oligachs, that just opens the genie from the bottle for them to abuse that process with their corruption and evil.

For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ

http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw

http://www.opensecrets.org/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/

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[-] 2 points by monjon22 (508) 13 years ago

Once the numbers of people in the park decrease to a certain extent (and the weather will make that happen) the City will force the others out. I will be very sorry when this happens. It is NOT defeat. So much has been accomplished. A conversation has been started. The occupiers are heros in my eyes. The fight will continue!!!

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[-] -1 points by roloff (244) 13 years ago

Cut and run with a little cold just like predicted. Laughable, could you imagine George Washington, saying just because were going home for winter, the war's still going on, wait for us right here British

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