Forum Post: Could Somebody Please Explain The Difference Between Neoliberal and Neo-Con?
Posted 11 years ago on April 12, 2013, 11:39 p.m. EST by LittleMatchGirl
(-143)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
-Because I don't think there is a difference. I think Neoliberal was just a name created by NeoCons (like so many other little riddles, in their "thinktanks") to confuse us. You know them tricksy-tricksters and the way they have with words.
OK. a) Neoliberal = Right-wing, laissez faire economic ideology, that's now being used by 'free market' fundamentalists and 'Libertopians' (Libertarian Utopians !!) to wreak economic havoc on the global 99% - as others on the thread have alluded to {+ http://occupywallst.org/forum/right-libertarianism-is-bullshit/ },
and b) Neo-Con = Much more to do with US Foreign and Military Policy as propounded by the likes of PNAC[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century ] who are really essentially 'USUK' Supremacists and Imperialists. The term 'Neo-con' was ascribed to these insidious characters because so many of them were liberal/left in their younger days, like Tony Fkn BLiar <RIP-asap!> etc.
Neo-Cons are galvanised by Leo Strauss ; Samuel Huntington's book, "Clash Of Civilisations'' et al & see an opportunity to replace 'Totalitarian Communism' with 'Islam' now as the designated 'enemy', in order to perpetuate the US-MIC & provide an open ended 'War On Terror' to justify USUK Imperialism and Resource-Grab Wars. Neo-cons totally accept Neo-Liberalism as their default economic ideology.
Both these terms are attributable to right wing ideologies - and both are a huge part of "the giant shit sandwich'' manufactured by The 0.01% Parasite Class, backed by the 1%, that we - The 99% are all having to bite - all around The Good Earth, our fragile, beautiful, shared and ONLY hommmmme ~*~
Dig your moniker btw from this pov : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_matchgirls_strike_of_1888 !!
pax et lux ; hic et ubique ; nunc et semper .... spero !!!
Well said. I concur.
Fiat Lux
No. Last time you wrote beautifully. Then you deleted it all and left. Its not worth it.
Some smart soul saved a small bit frm the evening. Don't know why LMG seems to be shy about this. She was saying something that seemed to strike a cord here.
Hmmm...would that smart soul want to post that small bit at some point?
Besides the name, what else leads you to believe its a female? I think its a male, myself. Just a hunch, though.
Reposted from a blog, which is perceptive....
This post was from LittleMatchGirl. I thought it was very good so I saved it, and I thought I’d repost it here – considering for some reason it was soon deleted:
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
“Thanks for the support, HCabret. I didn’t intend to get drawn into an imbroglio here. That wasn’t the point of my post… and I don’t want to continue one. Especially not with shooz, whom I respect, and whom I sincerely believe is doing his best here. No, that wasn’t the point of my post, and none of this is about LittleMatchGirl. Yet since you were keen enough to see through the apparent insignificance of a significant message, and courteous enough to express that, at the risk of being pilloried again, I’ll say a little more about my intent:
Freedom is a state of mind, an unwillingness to be told what to do or to believe, and orthodoxy . . . all orthodoxy, is the enemy of freedom. Only courageous skepticism can be the basis of lasting liberty. Genuine cooperation must be voluntary, and never coerced; and in the absence of our assent we must refuse cooperation. Those who would push us toward orthodoxy of thought, judged against history, would also assert themselves as the gatekeepers of that orthodoxy, thus becoming our new shepherds while we once again become sheep.
There is no solution but to face that fact. That’s how we become the leaders who can save ourselves, by facing that truth. We can put faith in nothing but our own hearts and minds and in our courage – can put faith in no concept but that of the demand for liberty itself – for to put faith in systems themselves is to abdicate personal responsibility, and in so doing assure perpetual slavery.
Only WE, fully engaged in the demand for liberty and in the realization that we must remain forever so engaged, can save ourselves. Nothing meaningful in life comes without sacrifice, least of all that most precious thing of all, freedom itself.
Never stop questioning!
There are no pat answers – there is no plan, no political agenda, no economic agenda, no theory, no savior, no easy way out. The only answer is to become the lion we are capable of being, to develop our minds and characters through self-discipline and rigorous self-analysis, to forge a heart that refuses to lie to itself, a soul unclouded by hypocrisy and denial of what it truly knows of the world, a soul willing to pay the price of dignity – knowing that in the absence of dignity life is not worth living.
These things are our weapons against tyranny, our only weapons. That has not changed, ever – and it never will. Each generation most forge that spirit anew to be worthy of the legacy of those who walked that road before. . .
We can do it if we have the will.
Thanks again for having perceived that “inconvenient truth.”
I may post again here, but what does it matter really. There’s nothing more to say. We will either do or die.”
Thanks kindly, 'gsw'. This is the one I was thinking of. Beautiful piece. I'll save it as well.
What I don't understand is why LMG has a negative Karma score. I thought LMG was possibly Thrassymaque
I don't have a clue to gender except it refers to self as LittleMatchGirl.
The section is on a blog, from one who admired it, but I don't think it was the 9 point comment, which were accumulated In a short time, about 2 hours.
But the piece was good so I'll be happy to get that and put it up, I mean as it was something good, and of interest to the group, if LMG doesn't object. I didn't save it, wish I had.
I remember LMG mentioning a wife and kids somewhere.
Ahh...good recall! Any suspicians...or the usual suspects? Heheh!
It's all smoke and mirrors.
Might be an original. Gets confusing around here.
So you guys are hanging out here for the drama of the characters, or the issues.
I always thought you two were the same dude, you don't disagree on anything.
Hahahah! I'm a dudette!
Yes you are and a ~.^'y one at that
~Odin~
That's great. It's hard to tell in cyberspace.
Anyway, maybe we should stop wasting energy trying to be purists. It's like the socialists, the workers, the family, the greens, the justice parties all have their little religious sect, but if they could unify, the message can get amplified, if we stay on message, like the republicans can. (be canned)
There is no single message gsw, except perhaps something simular to we are living in a country that corporate and banking interests take priority over people's interests
Building coalitions between different grassroot groups does not mean that we have to adapt to the other's way of doing things
We can and should keep our identiies
~Odin~
I have only just met Renneye, in the last month.
Middleaged kind of introduced us.
I might be one of the few here that didn't get another ID. Apart from a brief period where I could not even find this forum on my puter, I've not had a shadow ban or anything like that. Even though I have been a tad naughty at times. LOL.
Ok why do you guys get obsessed with VQ. We know he has a few ids. What's the big deal. He only really uses one at a time. And he hardly was effective of convincing anyone, except to not really like the winyness, which is now not so apparent.
If we want to go forward we got to trust each other more.
Most everyone's gone now anyway. You'll have your purified party of five, if we keep on this road.
VQ manufactures consent.
When losing a debate, he votes down the opponent, votes himself up, and resorts to all the nasty tricks he purportedly detests.
Anyone who needs sock puppets to bolster their fragile ego will not make it in the real world.
Plus, it gets boring seeing him flood the board with ActionAlert posts that he clearly has done nothing about physically, like writing a letter, for example.
Australians don't put up with hypocrites. And VQ is one. If there was an ignore function here, I'd be using it.
He couldn't persuade my three year old grandson to eat French fries
Thanks for the chuckles.
So you're DKA?
Cue X-files muzak.
Nope not rkg either.
DKA the letter man.
He hasnt mentioned letters For a while, but that's the spirit we need, an encourager
Cool. I like DKA.
RKG had a distinctive style. Has, I guess he's out there somewhere.
Maybe people have been conditioned so well in getting what they want, and getting it now, that this kind of movement will need continuous flak from the oligarchs to maintain a head of steam.
There's the cognitive dissonance issue that is holding a whole nation back, it seems. Words like tinfoil-hat and conspiracy-nutter and truther carry more weight than insider trading, or derivatives fraud, and white collar crime.
It's all about marketing, and we need to get the marketing side of the org both organised and operational.
It takes cohesiveness, and planning. While we come here to poke fun at eachother, It's not gonna happen, is it?
Is it?
Seems more dysfunctional than functional, but insights can develop, eventually something can click, but we will continue to be outpaced, if we don't synchronize our watches, so to speak
Prove that I manufacture consent or stop spreading your childish, unfounded, personal attacks
And engineer a comment that is on topic instead of continuing your obsession with your dishonest politics of personal destruction.
Two thousand "karma" points a week is all the evidence anyone needs.
That proves activity and popularity. Do you even know the definition of the false accusation you spew.?
And you're really Australian?
Yeppers.
I sometimes spell things in US English, because I think I'm the only Aussie left here now.
It's funny that a site that previously would not allow conspiracy theories (remember, back when there was moderation?) is now rife with conspiracy about who is whom, and who is counting?
Yea. A big bloody Mexican telenovela. Bunch of hissies gossips here
I don't know why some use more ids. I guess they bend the rules and think wtf its a revolutionary type movement, who needs confining rules.
I don't choose to make it more complicated than is necessary
I have to take your word on the telenovela thing.
I watch the odd old movie on the laptop, but I stay off the television trip.
So it's Shadz, who is English, one Aussie, and maybe ten regulars from America, and Jart drops by occasionally to post some news.
It's not surprising. Forums and BB's are going by the wayside. A board I started just for Australians, after the popular Public Debate site self-destructed, has just last week been pulled from the web. Less than a dozen regulars haunted that place for ten years.
"Less than a dozen regulars haunted that place for ten years."
OMG! That's us in our worst nightmare!"
I got kicked off that forum (though I created it) three times over the years.
Rightwingers end up dominating most bulletin boards and forums, and I'm not sure why.
I was in the process of tearing one of them a new A-hole when the place just disappeared off the web.
There was some overt racism happening, and I mentioned finding a wider audience for such commentary.
Might have scared them all off into a new IP address, so they can continue in their incestuous fashion. LOL
ten feel like subdivided into four groups. The right wingers have won?
Well there's a Monsanto march in may, the 25. That should be big
Govnt can't stop us from walking.
If we had our shit together here, we could have some t shirts and where them in public, or caps, with Ows.org
Do some marketing.
But who wants to come here and just fight, not the public.
Get actionalertman, I mean VQ on the job.
He says he's independently wealthy, and obviously has a lot of time on his hands.
Takes a day to print up some shirts.
Well maybe he inherited or earned it, got lucky,who knows.
Even if he's a 100 percent dem, and I think he maybe voted green, he can be your wingman against the 1 percent here, or do you guys prefer we don't win this?
Builder you have been here a while. It's kind of addictive, and could be kind of boring without some character and personality, which some bring more than others.
If you kicked off the dems that might be less here and then it would be like talking to a mirror.
Build a bridge and get over it
Hahah! I hear ya...I used to be pretty intuitive with the characters, but I've lost a bit of that, since I'm not on the forum as much as I used to be. He/she has gone silent again.
Don't think its an original. Seemed to know a few of the people here.
Yeah. I wonder whatever happened to RichardKentGates.
Not that LMG is anything like Richard was.
I'm off to the Kimberley soon, to do some relief work, so I might not be here for a while. Not taking the puter with me, cause I'm gonna do some backpacking on the way home.
I wondered about that too a couple weeks ago. Maybe he'll join us again. Or, maybe he's still here ;-)
Have a great hike, Builder! Hope it's a sunny Vitamin D3 kind of day for you!
It's been raining all day here.
Might be a wet Winter coming up.
So I'll head to the other side of the country, where the weather is predictably perfect at this time of the year.
And you have a great day too, Renneye.
~.^
You're flirting? I'm flattered.
Lol! I was wondering when you'd finally catch on. I've got a weak spot for back packing Aussies with knowledge of all things health. Thanks for playing, Builder!
You're welcome.
The knowledge was a necessity at the time.
Modern medicine left me in the lurch.
I wasn't far off topping myself, if certain knowledgable individuals weren't tossed in my path.
It might sound egotistical, but I do believe I have a guardian angel, and I'm not a believer in religion.
Wow...the eye neuralgia was so bad you thought about killing yourself?! Sorry to hear that, Builder. Glad it got taken care of. It wouldn't be the same here without you...and it won't while you're gone to the Kimberley either. Will I...a-hem, I mean we see you back here some time? ~.^
And yes, given the purple aura, one would have to consider we don't know what energy may be at play out there. You said 'not a believer in religion', but that's not the same as a believer in 'an entity'. I'm a non-believer...but I respect everyone's right to believe whatever they want.
If you join us again, come back with some good stories to tell us. Be safe, Builder.
You of all should know to listen to the message, not the messenger.
The neocons have think tanks, many of them. And they develop and hone a message, and pass it out to their 35,000 trained mouthpieces, and they all start saying the same message.
If only we could get united like that, is what LMG is saying. (while still never stopping in our questioning, truth-seeking) But too many want to raise unimportant questions, question peoples motives and sincerity.
It is like ShadeZZ said, we have more in common, all here, than we do with the one percent, and if we nit pick at each other, we will be like little chickens, and never get to the real issues effectively.
Over and above their "think tanks" they have the SPN, most of which are charities.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Portal:State_Policy_Network
That network is coupled with ALEC.
In the end though, both "neoliberals" and "neocons" are just the puppets of the neolibe(R)tarians.
Hinted at here by Chomsky.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/chomsky-on-libertarians/
a letter to the editor in local paper today expressing desire for a frank discussion to such issues as who is running the country:
"I think the country needs to have a serious discussion about who is running this place. It has been three years since the Citizens United decision by the Supreme Court, and money has been the driving force in the two national elections since then. The Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, Donald Trump, and the National Rifle Association pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into their election efforts to convince the rest of the country about how to vote.
Worse, we have an attorney general who has expressed no interest in prosecuting the major banks for their part in robbing the country of its resources in the housing bubble scandal of 2008 simply because they are too big to fail. This is alarmingly close to giving up on the supposed fact that we are a country where the law applies to everyone (The Rule of Law).
Major Republican Congress members simply refuse to answer when asked about the inequity of having tax loopholes for the rich, tax irresponsibility for corporations greedily accepting tax refunds when earning record profits, and the revolving door of profiteering lobbyists visiting their offices. They are blocking possible legislation to undo Citizens United, and our state Republican Party just recently blocked a vote on the issue.
We need to get serious about democracy being one person-one vote. It has never been a level playing field in my lifetime, but it is more distorted now than ever in tilting toward the concerns of the wealthy."
Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2013/04/09/of-the-rich/#storylink=cpy
What a bunch of fuckers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/alec-states-unions_b_832428.html
Wisconsin Gov. Walker claims to have campaigned on taking away the collective bargaining rights of public works. But while he did campaign on having state employees pay more for their health insurance and their pensions, he suspiciously didn't make his proposals to take away collective bargaining rights until after the election. Rather, after the election, according to Wisconsin's Capitol Times, Walker and Wisconsin Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald jetted off to an ALEC conference where they met with Governors from states where labor rights are weak such as Mississippi's Haley Barbour and Louisiana's Bobby Jindal. Commenting on the ALEC session on right-to-work legislation and other anti-union legislation, Fitzgerald commented that "he was surprised how much momentum there was around that discussion." In the infamous prank phone call in which Gov. Walker believed he was talking to David Koch, Walker bragged of being in daily contact with other Governors proposing anti-union legislation.
There seems to be no end to what they are doing and the press pretty much ignores their actions.
I like Chomsky but he's a little too brainy for the average American. But I'm sure all the info is accurate. It just needs to be put into language of the common man
This talk, is short and almost animated for Comsky. He explains it quite well.
I listened up to where he isvdiscussing libertarian socialism, which is about 4 syllables too many for average american attention span those days.
The have libertarians, conservatives, neoliberals, neoconservatives, hawks, etc, all untitled against our left, which is broken into several ununified groups.
We need to get our shit together, or we will be enduring tyranny the next 40 years till it melts down
Get united people, like neocons are Osama bin laden
Too bad. That was the best part. He explains what he calls "American libertairians" and explains it well.
I just call them neolibe(R)tarains, because they have gone global.
Yes it gets pretty good the end, where he describes how corporatism is tyranny, but worse, and we don't even have words to describe it, because they have worked to alter the meanings of words so we don't have free speech, and are worse off than in state tyranny.
Good points. We are in tyranny. Just see how were arguing over $9 an hour, in the future.
That's phukked up.
Why use one of the oligarch's boogeymen?
Did you have a good hike? Here it was cold for spring.
http://www.commonwealinstitute.org/archive/the-powell-memo-and-the-teaching-machines-of-right-wing-extremists
Part of the answer to the enduring quality of such a destructive politics can be found in the lethal combination of money, power and education that the right wing has had a stranglehold on since the early 1970's and how it has used its influence to develop an institutional infrastructure and ideological apparatus to produce its own intellectuals, disseminate ideas, and eventually control most of the commanding heights and institutions in which knowledge is produced, circulated and legitimated. This is not simply a story about the rise of mean-spirited buffoons such as Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and Michael Savage. Nor is it simply a story about the loss of language, a growing anti-intellectualism in the larger culture, or the spread of what some have called a new illiteracy endlessly being produced in popular culture. As important as these tendencies are, there is something more at stake here which points to a combination of power, money and education in the service of creating an almost lethal restriction of what can be heard, said, learned and debated in the public sphere. And one starting point for understanding this problem is what has been called the Powell Memo, released on August 23, 1971, and written by Lewis F. Powell, who would later be appointed as a member of the Supreme Court of the United States. Powell sent the memo to the US Chamber of Commerce with the title "Attack on the American Free Enterprise System."
Did I have a good hike?
Are you being facetious, perhaps?
Part of VQ's menagerie of paid hacks, perhaps?
Don't bait me. I don't bite.
Just a sincere friendly inquiry thought you were gona hike, backpack.....here it was cold but I planted strawberries on the deck.
We should all be on same team is my philosophy. Even WiillSmith was questioning me today.....
[-] -1 points by Builder (3912) 23 hours ago Yeah. I wonder whatever happened to RichardKentGates. Not that LMG is anything like Richard was. I'm off to the Kimberley soon, to do some relief work, so I might not be here for a while. Not taking the puter with me, cause I'm gonna do some backpacking on the way home. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink [-] 2 points by Renneye (2124) 23 hours ago I wondered about that too a couple weeks ago. Maybe he'll join us again. Or, maybe he's still here ;-) Have a great hike, Builder! Hope it's a sunny Vitamin D3 kind of day for you! ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink
Yeah, haven't even packed the bag yet.
Are you keen to see me off this site?
No sign of twinkle-fingers lateley, though his stinkle-fingerer alter-ego has been a heavy presence. Hang your head in lieu of all those stinkled points.
I certainly hope he doesn't do long-term damage to that stinkle-finger. Poor guy.
Don't want to see anyone off the site who should be here, including Inclusionman, who has been better since the election.
The more the merrier. I don't know who stinkled your comments. I only stinkled right wingers like STormcrow2, Kandy4, & eviltrillionaire.
You contributed many past keen insights in my recollection. I think the Ows ship is big enough for 99 percent to be on board.
I think you are upstanding, but also it is time to stop chasing vq. We know he has had multi ids. So do a lot of people. Multi ids on a forum seem pointless in my view, and it's against the rules, but that is expected on an "anarchist" site.
Anarchist my arse.
WTF does being anarchist have to do with hiding behind pseudo identities, and manufacturing consent for your lame-arsed "argument"> ????
The guy's a fruitcake. You might even be him/her, the way you're playing this card.
There it is, people. gsw is vq.
Hahahaha this place is getting more audacious.
You are some kinda paranoid wacko. LOL Leave this person alone. They are not VQkag2. I was. I use only this ID.
You just can't stand even the slightest non negative comment about me.
Pathetic joke
VQ???
(quote) lol...love the minus four on my comment....he must have roused all his screen names to downvote my comment.(unquote)
Only minus four? imangina40 must really like you.
It's testament to your effectiveness that you are being targetted. Feel valued. Or something.
"Better since the election"?
Better than before?
lol...love the minus four on my comment....he must have roused all his screen names to downvote my comment.
[Deleted]
Hahahahahah. Good one.
Nice multiplayer game.
Never to be trusted again.
It's a bright cold day in April, and the clocks are striking thirteen.
Sounds like it's not working too well for you.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/psilocybin-grows-new-brain-cells-proof-juan-r-sanc/#comment-959969
But while we are at it, tell me which one these guys are.
http://www.freep.com/article/20130414/NEWS06/304140150/Great-Lakes-oil-proposals-threaten-repeat-of-Kalamazoo-spill-environmentalists-say
Oh God . . . last comment here. I think I made my point to those who can understand it.
Linear thinking: This is a great part of the problem. When you reference the most famous first line in modern literature, written by the most famous exponent of freedom in modern history, and the most famous opponent of the kind of society we are all trying to oppose, with his myriad examples of the very kind of methods I am trying to expose here, and no one gets it . . . Here . . .?
Maybe Americans need some psilocybin. Anything to shake us from our conditioned, plodding, linear, gullible, complacent, mediocre, "thought patterns!"
There, I said it! Damn, what a relief!
You're chasing paisley ponies.
There. I said it.
Would these guys be neoliberal?
Neoconservative?
Or neolibertarian?
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130415/METRO/304150341/Battle-lines-drawn-over-Michigan-s-sand-dunes?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
[Removed]
As far as I'm concerned assholes works for any of the three.
But for the sake of being less inflammatory, I will stick to the term neolibe(R)tarian, if only because it fits so well.
PS: Yep I believe it just may be that guy, and I'm hoping he will answer my question in a direct fashion.
Although I doubt he's capable of that.
[Removed]
He does not own the quote and did not attribute it.
He actually used it to avoid answering a direct question.
Kind of Orwellian, in and of itself.
The fact remains.
He's chasing paisley ponies.
[Removed]
Isn't that what he always tried to do?
Get others to chase his paisley ponies?
I refuse. I survived the 70s.
Things haven't really changed much.
It's still a ball of confusion.
and the neolibe(R)tarians are still the puppet masters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVbCuY8mECo
"and the band played on"
-----The Temptations-----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_stroke_of_the_clock
I saw he posted at 1 PST, I just thought 13 hundred hours Sunny cold where he was, here was cloudy and cold.
Orwell http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_orwell.html
It's subliminated, unconsciousness. Tip of tounges.
Or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldous_Huxley did psychodelics
Magic mushrooms?
Kept in the dark and fed on BS>?
Glad you got that off your chest.
This is a real conspiracy, and many citizens assume the elite are just hard working do gooders.
In 1985, Michael Joyce left the Olin Foundation to assume the presidency of the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, in Milwaukee. During this time, he not only built the Bradley Foundation into the largest and most influential right-wing foundation in the country, he also forged a formidable alliance among a small group of the nation’s largest, far right-wing foundations so that their resources could be more strategically deployed in support of the developing neoconservative agenda. Included in this alliance are the Koch Foundation (either directly or through its subsidiary the Claude Lambe Foundation), the Castle Rock Foundation (Coors) and the Sarah Scaife Foundations (either directly or through its subsidiaries the Carthage Foundation and the Alleghany Foundation) which, together with Olin and Bradley, have collectively financed the rise of the neoconservative movement in this country and have done so with an impressive display tactical precision. It is a telling marker of the ideological cohesiveness and extremism of this core group of philanthropies that three of the five founding members, Joseph Coors, David Koch and Harry Bradley, were members and financial supporters of the John Birch Society. The Scaife foundations, headed by Richard Mellon Scaife, are also involved, albeit in less direct ways. In the past 20 years this core group of funders has, by many reports, built and strategically linked an impressive array of almost 500 think tanks, centers, institutes and "concerned citizens groups" both within and outside of the academy. It is particularly telling to observe the funding sources of these organizations during the first 10-15 years of their existence, when their ideological identities were being established. A small sampling of these entities include the Cato Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute, the Manhattan Institute, the Hoover Institution, the Claremont Institute, the American Council of Trustees and Alumni, Middle East Forum, Accuracy in Media, and the National Association of Scholars, as well as Horowitz's Center of the Study of Popular Culture.
Read more: http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2006/06/16/jones#ixzz2QPjrVJHT Inside Higher Ed
It is a rare quality to be able to listen to the message and not the messenger. Most of the regulars here know that I possess that quality...and I'm as far from a purist as can possibly be. In fact I hate pigeon holes of any kind, all labels.
I've risked my reputation here, by listening to the message of a messenger who is not very well liked here.
My point is simply, that I WAS listening to the message of 'LMG', and he/she took the messages away.
Thras often gets his messages removed, but he does not delete them himself, and most of them are left alone by the mods. His hope is that his messages stay and we can then decide for ourselves whether it has merit or not. His messages can be revisited if need be.
Seems like one could invest valuable time in speaking with LMG and come up with good strategies, leave the thread for a while, come back and only see half of the conversation because he/she decided to take down all his/her posts. How is anyone going to see the message if only one side of the conversation is there?
Its simply not worth the investment, when no-one will see the message.
I don't think what Shadz was saying applies to this particular circumstance.
"The neocons have think tanks . . . and they develop and hone a message . . ."
That's exactly right. And their message becomes a part of our thinking.
It's better to light one candle than curse the darkness.
Thanks gsw.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/11/a-call-to-arms-for-class-war-from-the-top-down/
Some early orwellian doublespeak The 34-page, 16-subsection memo is a comprehensive analysis of what Powell saw as an all-out war on American business from liberals, leftists, socialists and communists. He mentioned four by name — consumer advocate Ralph Nader, UC-San Diego Professor Herbert Marcuse, Yale Professor Charles Reich and Black Panther Eldridge Cleaver.
The memo details the dimensions, sources and tone of the attack; the apathy and default of business, responsibility of business executives and possible role for the Chamber of Commerce; and analyses and strategies for reaching the campus, the public, and the “neglected” political, judicial and stockholder arenas.
He ends by casting the conflict as an apocalyptic struggle for economic and individual freedom.
“As the experience of the socialist and totalitarian states demonstrates, the contraction and denial of economic freedom is followed inevitably by governmental restrictions on other cherished rights,” he wrote. “It is this message, above all others, that must be carried home to the American people.”
It just seems so obvious. We need to unite.
Atmy work there was a related issue, cohesiveness, trust, false divisions. It takes time, and is difficult, but how are we going to effect change, if we can't even change our own competitive natures, if life hangs in the balance.
This stuff is really basic, but maybe the neocons are behind our division.
Our problems are very complex, and I'm afraid will take tremendous resolve to overcome. But people have risen to the occasion before:)
Yes, and we shouldn't cripple our own teammates, (thats the traditional divide and conquer strategy) nor should they be silenced, as they may have a key to a door, or something.
Ok yes very complex problems, we are out spent, out media-Ed, out organized, marginalized, and abused. Maybe we've been forgotten.
We need some viral messages, cartoons or something that explains these problems in plain language or concepts, so the non voters get it. We need their numbers to change the power balance, especially in the south of usa
Going, going, Gone! No, the little neo-cons couldn't answer after thirty minutes. They have to put their little heads together to come up with "plausable deniability."
Hey, where's your note?
You dropped out of several conversations yourself.
I am a figment of the imagination. What I wonder is whether there is any reason to believe in other figments of the imagination - figments carved out of the nanosphere, like - Neoliberal?
Where did this word come from - does it have any real meaning - is it different in any way from Neo-conservatism?
probably invented words to confuse us.
seems like you getting racking up some impressive karma scores 2 weeks ago?
speaking on being a free spirit non-dogmatic lion hearted, it was almost like a classic poetic call to action
I deleted that post because it got sidetracked from the point, which was creative non-cooperation. I think there is much unifying work to be done in that area:)
Can you go back in archive and resurect the comment section. Much of it was not bad.
Damn it is getting windy blew me out bed, thought a tree coming down on me.
There were around 14 lines of really good text.
Sounded like a rallying call to action, to get us fired up back in the streets. There were 9 karma points on the comment.
There is a tiger in us that we have yet to meet. LOL!
Sounds like creative noncooperation is an important tool, any more you want to say on that again.
I replied above.
“If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be conducted successfully. When affairs cannot be conducted successfully, propriety will not flourish. When propriety does not flourish, punishments will not be properly meted out. When punishments are not properly meted out, the people will not know how to conduct themselves.”
http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2011/03/27/calling-things-by-their-right-names-a-lesson-from-confucius/
Thank you for seeing that. Orwell understood one thing clearly, and I think the neo-con 1% studied his works, with evil intent - and that is that if our words are poisoned we will be unable to think clearly, and if we can't think clearly we will be unable to protect ourselves from tyranny.
Neoliberal does not exist. It is a euphomism for neo-con, used by neo-cons, to smear liberal ideology.
The waters certainly are muddied.
Might be time we all occupied the language again, and demanded that so-called leaders do the same.
Congress certainly isn't, these days.
One refers to the other as a Democrat, and the other refers to the other as a Republican.
NeoLiberal are Progressive Liberals, Neo Conservatives are on the opposite end of the spectrum.
In the middle are moderate liberals and liberal moderates, they make up the majority of voters in the country, but they are fear herded into one neo corner or the other.
Bullshit.
Wiki says ...
Neoliberalism is a political philosophy whose advocates support economic liberalization, free trade and open markets, privatization, deregulation, and decreasing the size of the public sector while increasing the role of the private sector in modern society. The term was introduced in the late thirties by European liberal scholars to promote a new form of liberalism after interest in classical liberalism had declined in Europe. In the decades that followed, neoliberal theory tended to be at variance with the more laissez-faire doctrine of classical liberalism and promoted instead a market economy under the guidance and rules of a strong state, a model which came to be known as the social market economy. In the sixties, usage of the term "neoliberal" heavily declined. When the term was reintroduced in the following decades, the meaning had shifted. The term neoliberal is now normally associated with laissez-faire economic policies, and is used mainly by those who are critical of legislative market reform.[1]
I apologize then, neo-liberals are not progressives, although, in comparison to what a neo-conservative is, a neo-liberal would be a progressive.....update, I don't apologize, nor do I understand!
In other words, neo-cons.
I see "neoliberalism as being in direct oposotion to liberalism in America - almost it's opposite; and it's a term not used in American politics until recently. It is now used, I believe, to muddy the waters - to confuse liberal thought with neo-conservative thought.
It's just one of a thousand word games created by neocon "think tanks," and disseminated by mass media. We have to be very careful of this.
[Removed]
Bravo. I agree with all of that.
I'm actually wondering how many "anarchists" have a genuine grasp of the true meaning of the concept of anarchy.
Politcal descriptors in Australia are opposite those in the US of A, despite the fact that we both speak the same language. Our conservative parties are the Liberals and Nationals, who need to form a rough, backstabbing coalition, in order to stand a chance of defeating the Labor party, which has factions of the far left, but are essentially centrists these days.
Occupy English. Or, as Jules said, English mofo, do you speak it?
[Removed]
"Mofo"? Are you targeting a certain race by referring to that slang?
We don't even own liberalism . It sounds like loose moralism, or something loosey goosey.
We need a targeted strategic vocabulary and talking points, and to say them at same relative time.
Justice
Fair deal
Level playing field
the 1 percent
We need this to be forwarded to widely http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOegA8MgC2o&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Considering my screen name, I feel somewhat obliged to comment here. No, Neoliberal was not created by Neocons. It is in fact, as you say, in opposition to SOCIAL LIBERALISM. The term is well known and understood outside the US. It refers to LIBERAL ECONOMICS, aka Free Market Economics, aka Classical Economics, aka Laissez Faire Economics. In Spanish- "Neoliberlismo" is well understood throughout Central and South America. Here is good explanation.... http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=376
[Removed]
reply to ; she said; Maybe many Americans do find it confusing, but I guess that's what were here for. To educate and inform. You certainly seem to understand it very clearly now. I guess have a problem with people creating conspiracy theories that have no basis.
[Removed]
Perhaps I was a bit harsh. I generally try to be civil. However, if you followed the thread, as you apparently have, her post asked a direct question. I gave a direct answer. She then replied in a demeaning manor. I haven't observed you to be a "shrinking violet" under similar circumstances. I have never personally heard it used by conservatives at all. It has been used by those that write news posts on this website many times. If it has ever been used in any deliberate attempt by the Right to confuse, I'd like to know when and where. My guess is they would not want to be associated with any term with "liberal" in it. They seem to prefer bullshit terms like "Freemarket". PS I didn't call her a troll.
I'm afraid the term came into existence a bit before "neocon"......"The term "neoliberalism" was originally coined in 1938 by the German scholar Alexander Rüstow at the Colloque Walter Lippmann.[2][3][4] The colloquium defined the concept of neoliberalism as “the priority of the price mechanism, the free enterprise, the system of competition and a strong and impartial state.”[5]..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
Yeah, but it was never used in America in the past.
The two main contending political outlooks in America, certainly in the popular consciousness, have been conservative and liberal. When the neo-conservatives started getting a bad rep, the term neo-liberal (meaning roughly the same thing as neo-con) was spread by the the neo-con think tanks through the corporate media to confuse the whole issue.
This kind of thing has become standard practice in the Karl Rove era, and even going back to Reagan. People need, as ZenDog has said, "understand it clearly and reject it outright."
The difference would be; Neoliberal tends to be a strictly economic ideology. Neocon; tends to include social issues. I don't recall any conservatives ever using the term Neoliberal.
The confusion of neo-con with neo-liberal is a direct attack on the ability of Americans to make coherent political distinctions. Is that put clearly enough for you?
I guess you missed the part about the fact that the tern Neoliberal was around long before the term neocon was coined. I'm sorry this confuses you. I doesn't confuse me.
I'm sorry that you can't understand that it doesn't matter if it was "around" before. You just can't get it, can you? It is in the way the word is used, how, by whom, when, and why that forms the context of the question, but these complexities go over your head.
No. It doesn't go over my head. Can you point to a single instance of someone using the term(s) to confuse anyone?
Sorry, I can't wait for the gears to grind.
I'll take that as a no. You can't name a single instance.
Every instance of it's use in the context of current American Political terminology is an example!!!
WTF are you talking about?
There is only one question left here now, the great question this forum increasingly comes down to, and that is, fool or shill?
I think you're both, a fool and a shill. Notice I kept this to mostly one and two syllable words, so as not to confuse you.
[Removed]
So you don't think these terms confuse the seperate ideologies of conservative and liberal?
No. I don't. It seems to only require a very basic explanation of the definitions imo.
Considering the varied meanings representatives in government utilize oxymorons to confuse and patronize their constituents, often on news and weekend programs, such as Meet The Press or 60 Minutes. They strive to keep the populace ignorant, and dependent.
"Neoliberalism" refers to two different, but related, threads of political discourse. One is an ideology of domestic governance, and the other is a theory of international relations. It also refers to an extremely deregulated economy — this definition is most frequently used outside of the United States.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
Yeah, and we have a winner. Neoliberalism is an economic term with the connotation of laissez-faire and Neocon is a foreign policy word that means preemptive war. Both are deviations of old school conservatism and old school liberalism.
And to use both in a sentence: say a state department official is talking to an official from a third world nation, she would say if you don't let our neoliberals through your boarders to exploit your labor, we'll send in our neocons to lay your nation to waste. lol
Neocon is a foreign policy descriptive, and neoliberal is an economic policy descriptive.
reply to; Good old boy Clinton...Yes,but Clinton would not likely ever identify himself as such. The bs term was "New Democrat" if I recall. More like a Republican in a Democrat costume.
Clinton, who Obama appears to want to emulate, Clinton even spoke more for the base.
While your first paragraph contains some truth. The rationalwiki article does seem to confuse more than clarify. Maybe you have succeeded were LMG failed by finding an instance where it would seem an attempt may have been made to appropriate a term that has been around since 1938. I would agree that Clinton was a Neoliberal, but not in any unique or novel way, His sellout to big business, his approval of NAFTA, made it clear that he was a Neoliberal in the most traditional sense of the term.
Good old boy Clinton made neoliberal seem to be a good thing, for a while, he ate it up, as a new democrat, economically pro global business. As our jobs started slipping away, was that "the giant sucking sound?" Ross Perot used to speak of.
The country has just gone more right, time for pendulum to swing back.
What's next . . . quazi- neo- ultra -conservative-liberal - socialist- retro-omni-con?
Double-plus-un-good!!!
[Removed]
Or, to call it for the bullshit propaganda that it is.
And point the finger at the instigators, and ask, why the fuck are you doing that?
Yes, and to just be aware when they are fucking with your ability to think coherently.
No, I'm not happy with just being aware.
I want to nail those fuckers to the ground.
Do you honestly believe they'll stop what they're doing just because they get chastised for doing it?
I always thought neo-con was short for neoliberal conservative.
Same duck, different quack.
Agreed. The difference is that Neo-con exists as a political force, and neoliberal is just a way of tarring liberals with the same obscene ideology. It is not an accidental confusion of terms, but an Orwellian attempt to confuse our ability to distinguish the difference.
Ok they --the axis of evil have 80 think tanks, funded by multiple millionaires and billionaires, and a uniting force codified in the Powell Memo.
We can't even agree if we sholuld allow a democrat to belong in Ows without becoming an object of harassment. Seems kind of shortsighted and bigoted, On our part, and we all love to vilify scapegoats.
They get out on Faux News, and repeat the same line of crap, whatever theyre pushing, for a few weeks, or years, and it's the same people from the think tanks, like Chris Hayes tonight showed how they been going nuts that " the state wants to raise your kids" all week. Nothing but fear mongering distraction, while they don't provide news, but propoganda
Yes, there's been a concerted effort at mind control for the longest time.
It's one of my pet hates that the English language is being twisted and distorted to suit an agenda.