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Forum Post: Constitutional Convention Call Gains Traction

Posted 2 years ago on Dec. 12, 2011, 3:33 p.m. EST by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Please click on the link and read this article.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11346/1196301-84.stm

45 Comments

45 Comments


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[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Article V is an interesting idea, and there are things that could use modification. That said, I don't know where this is going to go or what's going to happen with it. I think a lot of people are scared of doing it because the Constitution has pretty much become America's political bible and trying to do an Article V would be kind of like asking every church of every denomination to send people to a modern-day Council of Nicaea.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

i believe the threat of such an option might be the catalyst of change. and if nothing changes with out art. five this election cycle, ART FIVE might be a reality next time around.

[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Hopefully, that's what happens. I feel like an Article V convention constitutes a great "nuclear option;" readily available for us to threaten if things continue to deteriorate but not necessarily the best thing to actually go ahead and hold unless we're really prepared to shape the process and own the results.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 2 years ago

I'm good with what the NGA decides re ARTICLE V

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I'd like to see what happens in July 2012 as well; I've put myself down as a delegate candidate just to see what happens.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 2 years ago

Any thoughts on how to reach the 99% in your district?

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Not completely sure; my district is rather oddly shaped and seems to include quite a large and diverse swath of people. It appears to be very mixed and oddly drawn, including working-class and poor almost-urban areas in the East Bronx, Riverdale (upper middle class, wealthy, aging, largely Jewish) in the northwest part of the borough, parts of Mount Vernon and Yonkers that are urban and poor, a little strip of western Westchester County that transitions rather abruptly from working class and poor to very wealthy, and then a whole chunk of Rockland County that's largely suburban and not particularly dense.

I'm not sure how involved people in my district are with the Occupy movement and spinoffs like the 99% Declaration, and I'm not sure how to start raising awareness; any thoughts you might have to offer would be great. The other thing is that my "home" district isn't where I'm going to college, so that further complicates things; I go to college in MA's 8th district, which is a very interesting mix. I don't know the whole district very well, but like the 19th of New York it's got everything from the fairly well-to-do areas around Harvard and Davis and Porter to the partially gentrified Central Square and the mostly gentrified Kendall Square on the Cambridge side to working-class areas like Mission Hill and tougher areas like Roxbury and Dorchester; it is home to a crapton of colleges which might be helpful.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 2 years ago

I forgot to mention that The Working Group on The 99% Declaration has re-occupied this site!!! Having to start from scratch so you should join the group and get involved.

http://www.nycga.net/groups/the-99-declaration-working-group/

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 2 years ago

First you could look to the working group for any fact sheets or FAQ's. You will need to clearly understand the meaning of:

"No candidate for Delegate to the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY will be permitted to run on a party line or use any party label while running for or serving as a Delegate. No candidate or Delegate may take private money from any source except to fund his or her trip to the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY."

Then it's a matter of being creative and pounding the pavement.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I understand what you mean as far as taking private money, which I don't plan to do anyway, and I understand that taking party affiliation is unacceptable, but what exactly do you mean by the "party line?" I'm not asking to be sarcastic, but if I find that most of my views fall in line with the stated aims of one party or another does that disqualify me? What exactly would disqualify me?

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 2 years ago

The new website is ready to go but there was a problem today with the host so they're getting a new one. I got a glimpse of the site earlier today and it looks like there are FAQ's and delegate info. right now www.the99declaration.org bounces you back to the google site but it should be back up soon because all they need is servers.

I don't know the answers to your questions but I'm gonna find out.

BTW be sure to vote up the down payment for Philly when the site comes back up.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

I kinda' recognize this minor quandry you've described. How to bridge between the many different subcultures we do have.

I think if the constitution was better understood, the premise of article 5 of the US constitution would be found to be strictly inspiring, . . . if a person knows how government is supposed to operate under the law of the land.

Therein I see a chasm of difference that also appears artifically manufactured by media conditioning coupled with a dumbing down specific to American government under the constitution. A younger generation often has been taught a language set that the older is either baffled by or is outright against. In reality they both desire about the same overall effect.

Attitudes control perceptions. All parties have valid information, properly with reason, uniformly evidenced with priority in time, will find the consistency that is relative and dissolve most attitudes where upon perceptions are rendered more similar. The solutions are much clearer then.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I do see strong generational, class, and race divides, and I am generally capable of "marketing" myself in such a manner as to make the person I'm standing in front of feel reasonably comfortable at all times. I also agree with you that when you cut through one whole level of labels and buzzwords you find relatively similar views across the board. The problem is that cutting through these labels requires presenting oneself slightly differently to everyone you deal with. That can also be conceived of as fraud, and I really want to avoid having that label.

[-] 1 points by OLLAG (84) 2 years ago

I am assuming you are communist since most of your statement is...name one communist nation that is successful and is helping people.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Where exactly did you get the idea that I was a communist? Come on now, if you're going to make as broad and inflammatory a statement as that you'd better have something to back it up with.

[-] 1 points by OLLAG (84) 2 years ago

believing in permanent Class divides is communist. Also you can't expect people to believe in alternative political opinion if "comfortable" is how you describe a aggressive, but near true conversation. AKA you are

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Hardly; first of all I was referring to particular congressional districts, which contain everyone from wealthy, aging Jews to upper middle class professionals to working-class Irishmen to poor Hispanics and African-Americans. Now, if you're going to try to tell me that there isn't any racial, cultural, or class divide within that group then you're flat-out blind.

As far as making people comfortable is concerned, let me put it to you this way. I grew up working poor in the Bronx, raised by a working-class father and an upper middle class stay-at-home mom. My neighborhood was had people of all races in it, the neighborhood bordering it was inner city and predominantly black and Hisapnic, my high school was full of working-class Asian immigrants, and my mom was an upper middle class white woman from Minnesota. Having come from a background like that I know how to slip in and out of the speech patterns and mannerisms of whoever I happen to be talking to, thus putting them at ease in one sense even if they and I totally disagree on the issues.

Now please remind me how that makes me a communist.

[-] 1 points by OLLAG (84) 2 years ago

of course, why does ever OWS person blame jews? FYI most CEOs are Irish. and Hispanics are not all poor.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Where did I say I blamed the Jews for anything? All I was doing was pointing out the presence, median age, and social class of the ones living in a given congressional district. If you want to see what I have to say as far as "blaming the Jews" is concerned, just check my post history. I've complained about Likud a few times, but I've been all over the anti-Semites to the point of endorsing vandalism of their posts just to get them off of here. FYI, one of my closest friends is Jewish and I really resent the accusation that I'm an anti-semite. As far as CEOs being Irish and not all Hispanics being poor, the first statement may well be true and the second statement is definitely true, but I'd advise you to walk through Mission Hill and then try telling me that there aren't a lot of working-class Irishmen or through Roxbury and Jamaica Plain and then try telling me that the Hispanic and African-American people there aren't poor.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

I hear you and have struggled with the same perceptions at times. Then at others I realize that a temporay sacrifice of a minor truth to establish a greater is natural. Fraud is about taking something for gain without concern for the victim. This doesn't qualify. And, you can provide disclamers that prepare people.

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (13196) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

what - there have been four amendments added since, . . . 1961

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

No legal amendment has been added since 1812.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

They happen, and the really big ones often quite difficult to get through (I was thinking more of Prohibition and its subsequent repeal as well as the failed battle for the ERA because change on that level is what would be needed to fix things.) The other thing is that we've never seen an Article V convention happen before, so nobody knows exactly what this would entail or how it would be inplemented.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

The 1871 Constitution and everything after it needs to be abolished. Vaporized! Then starting with the first one, add the original 13th to cast out esquires/attorney from all public office. Run the 14th back up the flagpole to see what the people want. 16th gone.

Restore Article III Constitutional Courts.

Change "reasonable man" to "reasonable man or woman". Add whatever people deem necessary that require specific language regarding slavery.

It's doable and makes much more sense than any further attempts to contend with the DC enemy, or futile attempts to "fix" it.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Article 5 convention NOW!

Here is a message board with state by state forums. This thread has preparatory amendment strategy to enable full constitutional intent at convention.

http://articlevconvention.org/showthread.php?15-What-initial-amendments-will-improve-and-empower-the-conditions-of-a-convention

Former supreme court justice Brennen has a message board with state by state forums.

https://www.conventionusa.org/boardofadvisors.php

[-] 1 points by emoccupy (1) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

To our comrades in New York From members of Occupy San Diego

During a recent General Assembly at Occupy San Diego, some members of Occupy San Diego seriously started to think about the possibility of sending Occupy members to state assemblies and US Congress. I clearly remember back in November of last year, some members of Occupy Wall Street was seriously planning to hold a national convention to form something like an "Occupy Political Party" and send some Occupy members to US Congress and various state assemblies. Unfortunately, nothing seemed to come out of this proposal.

I understand that many, many members of Occupy Wall Street (and other Occupy movements) are reluctant to participate in the current corrupt political system. However, some of us--and I am sure some members of Occupy Wall Street and many other Occupy movements--feel that we should attack the current corrupt political system from outside (through rallies, marches, agitations and teach-ins) and inside (by sending our members to state assemblies and US Congress). We feel that we should attack the system through all available avenues rather than limiting ourselves to marches and rallies.

If you can, we would like to get in touch with members of Occupy Wall Street who are seriously thinking about Occupy movements sending their members to various state and national legislatures. I appreciate very much if you can mention this e-mail to these Occupy Wall Street members.

We would like to start a national level movement to send Occupy members to the US Congress. Although Tea Party is a pseudo-grass roots movement financed by billionaire Koch brothers, we can learn quite a bit from them. If Tea Party could send their members to the US Congress, why can't we? If we can send a large number of our members to the US Congress, we can really send chill up the spines of the 1%! If you are interested, e-mail me at emoccupy100@hotmail.com.

Your prompt response is greatly appreciated

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

True, we need a new constitution for new times, as follows:

We the peoples, in order to secure Freedom and Justice for All, do enact this Constitution for Strategic International Systems LLC (or SIS LLC) as summarized in the following Business Operations Forecast:

The customer value mission of SIS LLC is (1) to organize all customer-investors into 3,000 investment squad sites of 16 friends (or virtual specialties), and related internet investment legislatures of 50,000 friends (or virtual towns), requiring (2) a $20 weekly capital contribution for 1 year (or $1,000) to (3) create your investment club bank of 50,000 friends (or physical town) -- that is, having $50 million in initial assets -- which (4) due to the operation of today’s fractional banking system becomes (5) $500 million in new annual business loans (or $10,000 in new annual individual loans) from yourself as a new bank officer to yourself as a new business officer who (6) takes 75% employee business control as business officer-investors and 25% customer business control as bank officer-investors of (7) your specific 12 businesses (or investments) in your new bank investment account wherein (8) your investor voting power equals (9) your 1 of 12 levels of experience in (10) your 1 of 12 sectors in 1 of 50 industries in 1 of 200 occupations in 1 of 3,000 specialities which (11) votes-upon your purchasing (or investment) orders as (12) proposed by your employee-elected chain of command.

This means you will have 75% employee business control over your workplace as business officers and, as bank officers, 25% customer business control over all 12 investments (or businesses) in your new bank investment account. In turn, with this 100% town-level business control of your 3,000 workplaces, you can decrease your 12 customer consumption expenses by 75% for services, vehicles, education, retail, food, construction, technology, manufacturing, wholesale, health, justice, and banking expenses; that is, over your first 12 years of SIS LLC membership using a 75% more effective and efficient town design, and related 3,000 workplace designs (herein). Furthermore, while creating your new town & workplace design as described by this constitution, you will replace today’s communist big businesses, and related big governments, with your new small investment club banks, and related small businesses (or investments), as proposed, financed, and patronized by your 3,000 investment squad sites of 16 friends (or virtual specialties) in your internet investment legislature of 50,000 friends (or virtual town).

Why? First, because today’s executive business income (mostly from bank or financial asset income) is 33% of all income which is a huge amount of upper 1% income to split among yourselves as new bank officers having 25% customer business control, right? Second, because today’s executive business wealth is 42% of all wealth which is a huge amount of upper 1% wealth to split among yourselves as new business officers having 75% employee business control; that is, only after becoming new bank officers (above) first, right?

For example, this means if you earn $12/hour today, then you will earn $36/hour tomorrow after adding (1) your old wage income, plus (2) your 33% (more and new) interest income as a new bank officer, plus (3) your 42% (more and new) dividend & gain income as a new business officer. Together, these 4 sources of wealth & income from your specific 12 businesses (or investments) will double your net worth every 6-12 years (until retirement); that is, from the compound interest decline of today's upper 1% executives whom you will replace as the new bank & business investor-officers. So, with this power, let’s end today’s communist big businesses, and related big governments, okay? How? By helping to operate your own Business Operations Forecast (above) at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/ ; so help us help you, today!

[-] 1 points by emoccupy100 (1) 2 years ago

To our comrades in New York From members of Occupy San Diego

During a recent General Assembly at Occupy San Diego, some members of Occupy San Diego seriously started to think about the possibility of sending Occupy members to state assemblies and US Congress. I clearly remember back in November of last year, some members of Occupy Wall Street was seriously planning to hold a national convention to form something like an "Occupy Political Party" and send some Occupy members to US Congress and various state assemblies. Unfortunately, nothing seemed to come out of this proposal.

I understand that many, many members of Occupy Wall Street (and other Occupy movements) are reluctant to participate in the current corrupt political system. However, some of us--and I am sure some members of Occupy Wall Street and many other Occupy movements--feel that we should attack the current corrupt political system from outside (through rallies, marches, agitations and teach-ins) and inside (by sending our members to state assemblies and US Congress). We feel that we should attack the system through all available avenues rather than limiting ourselves to marches and rallies.

If you can, we would like to get in touch with members of Occupy Wall Street who are seriously thinking about Occupy movements sending their members to various state and national legislatures. I appreciate very much if you can mention this e-mail to these Occupy Wall Street members.

We would like to start a national level movement to send Occupy members to the US Congress. Although Tea Party is a pseudo-grass roots movement financed by billionaire Koch brothers, we can learn quite a bit from them. If Tea Party could send their members to the US Congress, why can't we? If we can send a large number of our members to the US Congress, we can really send chill up the spines of the 1%!

Your prompt response is greatly appreciated.

[-] 1 points by CobyART5 (59) 2 years ago

Article 5 Convention Now!

In getting familiar with the Article 5 Convention, I was especially drawn to the info regarding the "Greater Meaning of Free Speech" (GMFS) as an amendment to solidify the success that an Article 5 Convention would provide for us. Interesting as well, is that this is not a new concept in that it predates the Declaration of Independence.

Our freedom of speech has been dangerously chipped away at. To have the Greater Meaning of Free Speech etched back into our consciousness and our constitution for our children and our leaders to be protected, indeed encouraged to practice ~"forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love, protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."~ as the proposed amendment clarifies.

What mother would not want to ensure her child these freedoms and nurture from these core principles from the earliest stages of life. The GMFS can integrate beautifully into teaching values of positive and productive socialization by children as well as the truth to the people. How could the world's leaders go astray if taught this way, and then to know that they're constitutionally protected throughout their leadership terms, in fact bound by them to stay truthful by virtue of the people they govern having an integral role in keeping the rights of the people from ever straying off course again.

As a mom, my heart aches at how far we've been led away from these teachings. I fear that our country and our globe will not survive if we, one; do not get back to the importance of these fundamental values, and second; take the "Greater Meaning of Free Speech" and the Artcle 5 convention and secure our rights through the constitution.

http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html

http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 2 years ago

I've got a 9 yr old and an 11 yr old so I know where you're coming from. I don't know if you saw gawdoftruths comment above but it's becoming clearer that the ARTV group and the 99% Declaration group need each other so to speak. Apparently Lawrence Lessig is an ARTV expert and is also assisting with the working group on the Declaration:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/update-on-the-99-declaration-and-the-national-gene/

[-] 1 points by CobyART5 (59) 2 years ago

Article 5 Convention NOW!

Funny, I too have a 9 year old girl and 11 year old boy!
Yes, that's wonderful news that Lawrence Lessig is assisting the 99% Declaration people! Can't wait to see this materialize.

In OWS some people can do a lot and others can do a little, but it is all important. Myself, I can not get down to the physical protests, so I do what I can in getting information out. Another way I choose to bring awareness to the ART5 momentum is adding ART5 to the end of my username. Its a small thing, but goes a long way. Please consider doing this. The more people do it, the more curious others will become in reading up on this important material and stand behind it.

Hug your little bear cubs and imagine how good it would feel knowing they were constitutionally protected with the "Greater Meaning of Free Speech". The honesty in politics we all envision for our children and every generation after them.

An Article 5 Convention will give them that.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 2 years ago

See my above from Chris, this is very interesting and powerful material I'm accessing and I thank you both for taking the time to do this. The GMFS,well, I'd like to think I try to incorporate it in my life and for the benefit of the kids, even if unconsciously. My Mom taught Latin so I guess I had some advantages growing up when it came to speech and language skills. How I wound up farming for the last twenty years is a different story!

It's late here so I'll do more reading and reply soon. I sent this link to Chris too as I think it accurately reflects part of what was discussed in the GMFS. It's pretty well done I think. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/user/thejuicemedia#p/u/3/NXbCwq4ewBU

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Yes Lessig has a good grasp on the constitution and properly knows how a convention should be run. A realization I came to was that for this to work, (excerpt from article 5) "shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution,", there needs to be preparatory amendment. This message board is custom for article 5. A poll feature even on this very subject.

http://articlevconvention.org/showthread.php?15-What-initial-amendments-will-improve-and-empower-the-conditions-of-a-convention

And yes ART5 really helps by showing unconditional support defense of the constitution by using the constitution. Our first and last right.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 2 years ago

I was just reading the 'Greater Meaning of Free Speech' summary Coby sent me. Just so you know I know, you two know some amazing things that I never knew anything about, so thanks for taking the time. I' will be sure to pass it along to my kids (I never said my girl is 9, my boy 11, but they are lol). I've learned a lot in my short time here and this ARTV is amongst the most interesting. I've been hard at it with the Declaration but it looks like it's paying off, the NYCGA finally let the working group reoccupy the NYCGA website. One Little Victory. Now I'd like to explore some of the more interesting stuff I've bookmarked so I'll get back to you soon on the board and other stuff. Thanks, a lot!

Here's something that might give you a good laugh. I thought it appropriate after reading the GMOFS . It's called Rap News with Robert Foster. I'll send Coby a quick note with the link before I head to bed. Enjoy : )

http://www.youtube.com/user/thejuicemedia#p/u/3/NXbCwq4ewBU

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Article 5 convention NOW!

Wow! There are still real mothers on this planet. Thank you so much for your words there. Indeed, it would be beuatiful that children could learn principles like these, "forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love, protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.", while leaders do the same working with excellency in diplomacy outwards into the world making peace.

Then, the frustrated activist that has vital information for us all no longer has to beg or plead with media icons to share truths that might cause problems for those with a buisness of sharing in a corporate world. We can all benefit from words carrying such information when they are measured by such eternal values protecting and enhancing our survival, then evolution.

[-] 1 points by CobyART5 (59) 2 years ago

I especially like how the "Greater Meaning of Free Speech" adds the deepest value to words and speech so as to make the interpretation of the language in politics so meaningful as to leave little or no abuse of power and little or no misinterpretation of exactly what it is the people bring to the government in the way of concerns.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Hmmmm, yes interpretation. If you are a leader from America, and those you are negotiating with know those are national values, they have something to speak to, and if they do it well, not only will the US diplomat that they are approaching our values with reason, but the US citizens will too.

It seems sooooo natural that mothers would identify with those values because women have that edge with language that we hear about. Meaning that mothers can forge a new basis of expectation for family and community relating to how issues are resolved. Discussion between the parents of America will create solid ground that politicians will be expected to know and conform too.

What I like is that suddenly we realize that the knowledge needed fro survival comes from unknown places. Suddenly you listen to someone, and perhaps learn about something that has implications they don't know, but sharing them with a few people and gaining agreement gets access to national, primetime mass media for a fixed period. YES! Truth, OMG!

[-] 1 points by CobyART5 (59) 2 years ago

Article 5 convention Now!

Yes, I call on all mothers, in fact all parents of America to unite and accept nothing less than the "Greater Meaning of Free Speech" be incorporated.

This is the full quote I saw in another Article 5 post, and it bears repeating.

~" Which mother or father in this nation will ignore or pass up the real opportunity to assure their child will grow into a nation that holds high and honors understanding that can create; forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love, protecting their life, their liberty and their pursuit of happiness?"~

No sane person could argue with this.

According to the Article 5 website, there are a couple of things that need to happen in order for us parents to invoke the Greater Meaning of Free Speech. First we must revise the first amendment to include the Greater Meaning of Free Speech. This can be done by petition through state representative to invoke here;

http://algoxy.com/poly/polyims/1480.11-0003art-v.pet.form.pdf

Secondly, I agree with you in that the biggest stumbling block we have is corporate media. The complicitness of the media in undermining meaningful knowledge from getting to the masses seems to know no bounds. This wall has to be shattered if there is any hope of bringing the Greater Meaning of Free Speech. There must be a portion of all media, television, internet, and radio used for bringing important political information to the masses. It need only be a small percentage of the media so as not to interfere with corporate entities. It can be payed for using a small portion of tax dollars that I'm sure most people would not mind paying knowing that it's use is for guaranteeing their personal rights and freedoms. This needs to be done to guarantee transparency on a state and federal level.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Article 5 convention NOW!

Yes, AMAZING that American parents, (or at least mothers) already are in consensus because no mother or father is coming forward to deny that to their child. Hurry, notify them NOW! Oh, gee, no media . . . damm?^@

Ballot initiatives are appropriate for asking states to apply for an article 5.

We have a situation where congress is in violation of the constitution. It appears they have done it, knowing so or not, to enable the complete usurpation of it. In which case the needed 34 states applying should not rule. The fact that congress has been violating their oath for 100 years for what ever reason rules when the situation is as dire as ours.

These US codes are violated.

Federal law regulating oath of office by government officials is divided into four parts along with an executive order which further defines the law for purposes of enforcement. 5 U.S.C. 3331, provides the text of the actual oath of office congressional members were required to take before assuming office.

5 U.S.C. 3333 required you to sign an affidavit that you took the oath of office required by 5 U.S.C. 3331 and have not nor will violate that oath during your tenure of office as defined by the third part of the law,

5 U.S.C. 7311, which explicitly makes it a federal criminal offense for anyone employed in the United States Government to “advocate the overthrow of our constitutional form of government.”,

18 U.S.C. 1918 provides penalties for violation of oath office described in 5 U.S.C. 7311 which include: removal from office, imprisonment, and a fine.

Executive Order 10450 specifies a violation of 5 U.S.C. 7311 for any person taking the oath of office to advocate “the alteration…of the form of the government of the United States by unconstitutional means"

The definition of “advocate” is further specified in Executive Order 10450 which for purposes of enforcement supplements 5 U.S.C. 7311.

According to Executive Order 10450 (and therefore 5 U.S. 7311) any act taken by government officials who have taken the oath of office prescribed by 5 U.S.C. 3331 which alters the form of government other than by amendment, is a criminal violation of the 5 U.S.C. 7311. Such alteration without amendment is criminal violation of 5 U.S.C. 7311 and 18 U.S.C. 1918.


In 1939 the supreme court violated Executive Order 10450 specifiing a violation of 5 U.S.C. 7311

http://www.foa5c.org/file.php/1/Articles/Coleman.htm

Acts relating to campaign finance are also unconstitutional and comprise “the alteration…of the form of the government of the United States by unconstitutional means"

CONVENTION PREPARATION http://articlevconvention.org/showthread.php?15-What-initial-amendments-will-improve-and-empower-the-conditions-of-a-convention

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

How are you going to have a Constitutional Convention without a constitution?

[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Article_5_Convention

http://occupywallst.org/forum/im-quitting-unless-you-all-start-working-stay-the-/

an article 5 convention only opens the genies bottle unless we are also creating a complete political platform and running all new 99 percenter candidates to take every last political office.

but the movement has in essence already failed. Its not going to get its head out of its ass any time soon and its thus just wasting everyones time.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

The 1871 Constitution and everything after it needs to be abolished. Vaporized! Then starting with the first one, add the original 13th to cast out esquires/attorney from all public office. Run the 14th back up the flagpole to see what the people want. 16th gone.

Restore Article III Constitutional Courts.

Change "reasonable man" to "reasonable man or woman". Add whatever people deem necessary that require specific language regarding slavery.

It's doable and makes much more sense than any further attempts to contend with the DC enemy, or futile attempts to "fix" it.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

right, the 1871 version is a changed fraud version.

[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

Well, as I was always told by my mom, " 'Can't' never tried!" She also used to tell me that "Rome wasn't built in a day".

Why do you think this movement has failed? I think it enjoys great and hard-won success. In a couple of months time it's focused attention on the issue of big business' influence of governments and how that influence is causing harm to societies. Further, it's enabled many who suffered in silence to take action. When you say that the movement wastes everyone's time, I'm not sure who you mean. Those who protest? The government? Law enforcement? Democracy is messy and it requires participation. I wouldn't consider the act of drawing great attention to one of society's ills a waste of time. Thanks for your reply and have a great day. ~ Thunderclap

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Why? because it has failed to understand the difference between temporal actions and permanent actions, between symbolic actions, and lasting actions, between protesting, and right action, between protesting and solving problems. Because its never managed to get organized, thanks in large part to being run to be chaotic on purpose. Here we are at ground zero, an astroturfed forum by the one percent with the express function and purpose of making sure nothing useful ever comes out of the "movement."

There is the work to have a revolution waiting in the wings, which is not being tackled. There are assorted sites like mine with enormous merit far greater than occupying ports, which are being ignored.

Democracy is messy and it requires participation. So far, there isn't any.

So far, after finally getting a wiki up because this site wouldn't, and getting the organization done to support it, and getting issues fleshed out a bit on the wiki, I am still operating more or less alone because occupy movement can't get its head out of its ass.

Hundreds of hours of my time- wasted- apparently- because occupy can't manage to appreciate where and how and who the useful organizational and strategic information is.

In 2003 with the anti war protests i tried, i warned, i worked, i busted my ass, and nobody listened, and we are thus still at war. Same thing. Its only useful protesting if there is a revolution. so far, the movement has yet to even START the work, and in most senses the entire point of merely protesting is to run away from taking adult responsibility.

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Article_5_Convention

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY