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Forum Post: constructive criticism

Posted 8 years ago on March 24, 2012, 11:53 a.m. EST by RedSkyMorning (220)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Written from my phone so sorry for poor structure.

I have seen time and time again in politics that people are better at seeing the problems but not at solving them. They feel something is accomplished by this awareness raising when nothing yet has been accomplished. OWS must create a structure and a set of accomplishable goals. I suggest we have a convention.



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[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 8 years ago

Problems are sensation, solutions are work. We are conditioned by media to be entertained by problems, then seek more entertainment. This movement has a similar aspect that you point out indirectly. It is more insidious than that. The forum has an intentional exploitation of this happening.


Do you suggest an Article V convention, or an informal convention of those supporting protest?

[-] 2 points by RedSkyMorning (220) 8 years ago

Just an informal one at first. We need to be clearer about what we are protesting about. The media will start ignoring us very soon unless they see organized actions going on. Once we have a basic agreed up list of demands we can start local chapters. This is how most grassroots groups work like say greenpeace. The local chapter handles its lobbying protests and candidate selection.

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 8 years ago

Hmmm, I've been reading a rather extensive site that has a lot of evidence of "cognitive infiltrations" and I'd have to say that greepeace is an infiltration. Basically working with sensation and never addressing the real problem with solution. They even have a fake chat.


That page goes into what greenpeace was doing back in 2004 and shows it to be fake. A way to make people think that powerful entities are doing something.

RedSkyMorning wrote "We need to be clearer about what we are protesting about."

That is critical, but moreso is how to solve the problems we protest. OWS is not even capable of discussing solution, so there's a BIG problem.

A formal determination of what solution is would be very nice. Logically it comes from the authority that the movement can create with the numbers it involves. So far there are no proposals that invoke any legal authority at all. Lots of issues, demands, problems, but no solutions.

Article V can solve all of the problems, which is why congress has been violating the law, the constitution and their oaths for 100 years. There has been a formal complaint to the AG about congressional conduct in this regard.


Obviously, if congress is doing this, it is for a reason. The reason is that when 3/4 of the states are ratifying amendments, congress, the senate and the president have no say whatsoever.

So when OWS will not discuss Article V, wonder why.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 8 years ago

nothing yet has been accomplished? why the rush? is this evidence of brainwashign, that things have to be done right away, people coming together and sharing experiences of anti-government is an accomplishment, it raises awareness to the tyrants in our govewrnment, when the time is right, like fruit ripening on a tree, the fruit of this movement will mature. easy boy, dont be in a rush, good things are worth waiting for.

[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 8 years ago

Any movement that is not always supporting change, talks about some elusive future time (when the "ground will ripen") that we should wait for, is full of shit (and any rational person should question its motives). So I hope that you do not speak for everyone in OWS (or your sentiment is not shared by most people involved with this movement).

Put it this way, building an organization at the grass roots level, influencing positive changes in our culture, etc., yes, are long range goals. But fighting for more immediate political change does not take away from these long range goals.

If you think one precludes the other, or at least one dilutes the other in some appreciable way .... then you really need to explain why you believe this (because it's not apparent on its face).

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 8 years ago

the constitution wasnt written in a day, or even a week, our society is much more complex, id expect a year or more to accomplish this thing. Its not a battle of I hope the majority dont think this way, cause it doesnt accomplish anything to tally the toll to see how many think this way yet. The work isnt finished yet.

[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 8 years ago

Right, but we shouldn't be completely resistant to some level of involvement in promoting political reform, and I think this should include thinking about political candidates. I think OWS has a real opportunity, for instance in the upcoming 2013 NYC mayoral and city council elections, to influence the outcome (at least to some degree).

[-] 1 points by Pinwheel (10) from New York, NY 8 years ago

Yes, but we now have the Internet. We no longer have to wait years to communicate goals, dreams, ideas. We can discuss, ponder, and implement in a lot faster timeline than our predecessors.


[-] 2 points by RedSkyMorning (220) 8 years ago

Why wait? It's an election year so the timing is perfect. If you get protests in all the major cities all u need is some gotomeeting software and boom we can start hashing out a platform.




[-] 0 points by ForrFreedom (49) 8 years ago

Here's a problem. OWS is acting in a hypocritical way by advocating freedom of speech and then censoring people's voices. Here's a solution. Stop censoring people's voices.