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Forum Post: Conservatives / Liberals

Posted 2 years ago on Oct. 3, 2011, 7:40 p.m. EST by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I would most like to say there aren't any liberals or conservatives in federal office today. There is only one Party in charge split into two groups. They aren't representing you. The party is called greed and they work for themselves. It's ok though let them. If you don't stand for this movement you won't get heard. This isn't about issues it's about power. We may not have money but we supply something way more important labor and a vote. We still have power we just have to use it. If we don't stick together we won't ever get a chance to argue weather or not you should use liberal or conservative ideas. You gotta fight for power first then worry about the issues. Keep uniting Occupy remember the 99%

35 Comments

35 Comments


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[-] 2 points by marsdefIAnCe (365) 2 years ago

I like your sentiment and agree completely that both parties are co-opted by money.

I disagree that you can fight for power without worrying about the issues first. There's a big elephant in the room called the (private) "Federal" Reserve that can print unlimited amounts of money. Buffett and Gates are not the richest men in the world. The real rich people own the central banks of the world and can print unlimited amounts of money for themselves. This is an easy issue for people to rally around and get mad about.

It isn't enough though. You need an economic agenda. How are you going to create jobs? What kind of infrastructure investments do we need? What regulations are helpful, and which ones hurt domestic business? These are all very important questions that need some sort of shared purpose before this thing can go anywhere.

[-] 1 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

Should come out and discuss it at a general assembly like restoring the manufacturing base

[-] 1 points by Joe300 (30) from Wolcott, VT 2 years ago

The only way I see to restore the manufacturing base is with a carbon tax. If the true cost(environmental) is tallied into the goods from china/Taiwan/Vietnam then it will finally be competitive/profitable to manufacture in the U.S. again.

Please add CARBON TAX to the list of demands. Without it the "we want reasonable jobs for reasonable wages" part won't be able to be fulfilled.

[-] 1 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

BS carbon tax al Gore crap. We need to stop letting american companies manufacture in china ... even skateboards the wood comes from north america and Canada gets shipped to china .. pressed into skateboard and shipped back ...and this is cheaper ? WTF . We should not do manufacturing business with countries that use sweatshops. American companies should stop selling us out.

[-] 1 points by Joe300 (30) from Wolcott, VT 2 years ago

If you put aside the global warming part of the argument, you have way way way too cheap oil/coal allowing it to be cheaper to transport from the US to canada to china then back for less than it costs to do it here. If oil/coal were priced for the damage it does to the environment(smog/mercury...) as well as for the dwindling supplies, it would be more expensive to ship things half way around the world then it would be to build it in the US. agree or disagree on global warming, a carbon tax prices oil more appropriately and protects American jobs.

[-] 1 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

Don't think another tax right now helps anybody right now except for this corrupt regime we are forced to live with

[-] 1 points by Joe300 (30) from Wolcott, VT 2 years ago

I see where you are coming from and agree with you on the corrupt regime part. I think that if there is a carbon tax(or any specific tax) and the money goes directly into a fund that can only be used for road/bridge construction or repair it would take some of the pressure off of the general fund and help our crumbling roads/bridges.

[-] 1 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

Like the phone tax to pay for the Spanish American war that never went away after the war ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_telephone_excise_tax I don't know where i am going to come up with money to pay more taxes I have 2 jobs my wife works and i have a child and i am living pay check to pay check. This is not living life i want to have fun and spend time with my family not work 7 days a week.

[-] 1 points by marsdefIAnCe (365) 2 years ago

Insanity. Global warming is a fraud.

If you want to re-balance trade consider something the globalists are not advocating, like tariffs. China has them to protect their domestic industry. Why shouldn't we do the same?

[-] 1 points by Joe300 (30) from Wolcott, VT 2 years ago

I'll agree to disagree with your stance on global warming, but both a carbon tax and tariffs achieve many of the same results as far as trade imbalance goes. A carbon tax goes further though to clean up the air, make clean energy more competitive, and reduce our need for foreign oil(even if you don't like the global warming argument you can't like acid rain/mercury/heavy metals raining down on you). A favorite saying is "we are all downstream". Tariffs also violate free trade agreements and WTO agreements(I personally don't care if we violate them, but they would be harder to implement).

[-] 1 points by marsdefIAnCe (365) 2 years ago

The coal plants in the USA are very clean. They do not emit anything but carbon and water vapor. China is allowed to build several per week that are dirty while regulation in the USA prevents our industry from building more than a couple per year. This is part of a bigger plan to destroy industry in the USA, which has the only armed populace in the world. You need to start connecting these dots if you want the economy fixed.

Carbon tax is BS. It's not something we can let slide and get anywhere. The carbon trading exchanges are owned and setup by the same people that run the private "Federal" Reserve. It's just another form of stealth taxation like the unlimited ability to print money taxes you through inflation.

[-] 1 points by Joe300 (30) from Wolcott, VT 2 years ago

From wikipedia: . The flue gas from combustion of the fossil fuels is discharged to the air; this contains carbon dioxide and water vapour, as well as other substances such as nitrogen, nitrogen oxides, sulfur oxides, and (in the case of coal-fired plants) fly ash, mercury and traces of other metals.

They are cleaner here, but not clean.

The big plans to destroy industry are the tax code, and cheap overseas labor.

I agree that the carbon trading exchanges are not great, but i'm not talking cap and trade. carbon tax is a tax on everything that burns fossil fuels. I agree that there should be a good direct place that the money from the tax goes(so it doesn't go to Afghanistan) like infrastructure. Clearly needs to be as transparent as possible.

Add -revised tax code to how to get our manufacturing base back.

[-] 1 points by marsdefIAnCe (365) 2 years ago

Ok, let's just cut to the chase. We already have cold fusion tech. I've met the guy that guy that got a Nobel prize for "disproving" it, which is the most absurd thing ever on its face. Science doesn't disprove things. You're worried about climate change then you need to strike a blow to the financiers of the carbon tax scheme in order to get the clean energy tech released. Can we agree on that?

[-] 1 points by Joe300 (30) from Wolcott, VT 2 years ago

sure, I'll leave it at that. Take the "scheme" out of any government or corporation and we all have a good start.

[-] 1 points by revg33k (429) from Woodstock, IL 2 years ago

This is not a comment on the rest of your post just the line "Science doesn't disprove things" this is just wrong, science takes theories tests them the tests prove or disprove the theory.

Science disproved the theory of the sun revolving around the earth Science disproved the theory of a flat earth

good science will prove and disprove things.

[-] 1 points by marsdefIAnCe (365) 2 years ago

Dude, seriously, you are retarded. Get a dictionary.

Science has two functions. Gather evidence, form theories. Disproving things is not part of the game. It's like saying PROVE THERE IS NO GOD. This is not in the domain of logical inquiry.

Indeed, the chance nature of quantum mechanics involves the possibility (albeit it very slight) that we have an appearance of Sun-centric solar system despite reality being otherwise. Naturally no one believes this as there is plenty of evidence to the contrary and the probability of this possibility is computed as negligible.

And quit trolling my posts please.

[-] 1 points by revg33k (429) from Woodstock, IL 2 years ago

Science (from Latin: scientia meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.

A scientific method seeks to explain the events of nature in a reproducible way, and to use these findings to make useful predictions. This is done partly through observation of natural phenomena, but also through experimentation that tries to simulate natural events under controlled conditions. Taken in its entirety, a scientific method allows for highly creative problem solving whilst minimizing any effects of subjective bias on the part of its users (namely the confirmation bias)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

What part of that says science does not disprove things?

you do your test the result is the result. the result will prove or disprove your hypothesis.

[-] 1 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

What if we all max out are credit cards buying gold and silver then just declare bankruptcy. Are we to big to fail ? ...

[-] 1 points by Duuuuuuude (15) 2 years ago

So if you hate the people in Congress, why is this movement trying so hard to increase the size and scope of their powers?

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

We are trying to take away there power and redistribute it amongst the 99% . Trying to fight for representation. Your comment is polarizing. Get off the 1% tit think for yourself.... Unless you are the one percent

[-] 1 points by Duuuuuuude (15) 2 years ago

I am very much not part of the 1%, but I know that giving the government more power through more regulation is only going to make these problems worse.

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

That is ok to believe I'm not going to argue with you against that. But the people in office will only vote for what makes them have more money and power. The 99 percent have to be in power before making the decision of more or less power to federal govt. We aren't heard .

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

sorry, i do know exactly what feudalism is. You trying to talk about its main features and then say that other features of feudalism are not the feudalism is silly. The dominant or single most relevant point is land ownership, certainly, but there are other features of feudalism, one of which is most certainly taxes, and to the point, by definition taxation as such begins in feudal systems. It is remarkably futile and silly to argue with me. It would be wiser to stop and take your opportunity to chat with the DJIN. capitalism is ALSO a system which has NEVER existed.

the core issues; 1. Corporate Personhood. 2. Caste Warfare; they started it. 3. Its legal to lie to the USA public. 4. They are OUR airwaves. They should be used for WETHEPEOPLE not leased by the government to corporations. Put Local colleges in charge of all the media. Arrest and seize all mass media devices and then give those devices straight out to the local colleges, including the land they sit on. We need education public media; not legalized lying and propaganda wars against the people. 5. Education reform. Everyones being kept stupid and ignorant on purpose in school and repugnicons want to argue about how to pay or punish teachers. We need child centered education reform, not a con scam to privatize education and thus score all our children for corporate zombotification. 6. Free market system. Not slave market system. Not caste market system. Not Caste warfare market system. Not rigged Casino. Not making something off of nothing and making bubbles to grease a gravy train either. Free market system. We must have one of those. Its time to have one of those. We have NEVER YET had one of those. 7. Realistic regulation of the government to regulate and control corporations so that what they do is fair and just and ethical and under control instead of a parade of unleashed godzillas turning the masses into to toe jam. 8. Real and direct representation, including no more lobbying, and including an evolutionary use of the internet with organized forums and wikis replacing the old style of congressional/ mayoral office.

"Right, but that still doesn't preclude taxation, which is in fact necessary to regulate the value of money"

nope. taxation period of any kind is merely and only a means to the end of creating a caste system. And even deeper, taxation dynamically entropizes a system, so its not only not necessary to regulate money, its the single largest entropic contributor to the system. The ONLY reason why we pay taxes is thats the feudal system; the idea that we pay anything remotely approaching the same thing or fair to what the rich pay is preposterous. The whole point of taxes is to distribute wealth from the poor to the rich. period.

gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 0 seconds ago

"the end goal product should be that every small community takes care of its own. Any federal system is a problem definition of something requiring more serious attention to solve. long term social programs managed by nation sized meta entities is a disaster not only socially and civilly but to the people who get third rate borg social services. A well functioning system does not need a welfare system, it only has a highly evolved net which catches people and only involves less than one percent of the population at any given time, not punishing but rehabing and educating folks. Until such time as that end goal is achieved, no hand outs is a paradox... you have to spend time and thus money in order to fix the problems till their fixed past needing time or money."

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Why aren't u in office???

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

aspergers syndrome. you want to run,? i can ghost write your platform? :)

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Understood we need more ideas then politicians anyway. The fixes are so simple but so difficult to get implemented.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

i'm running for chief of staff. bit early to announce yet since i have no clue whos running on my ticket for president?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

http://forums.keller2012.com/index.php i created this forum org structure. but scott keller turned out to be an idiot.

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

That's the problem with individuals leading . Power turns to easy into corruption. Don't know him but it is nicely set up.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

yep. the sub sub sub forums are veiled but there in deep. its an evolutionary model for open source processing and think tanks.

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

I'm going to have to really look into that site. Thx

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

thank you. report back to everyone. thats what our forums need to look like. soon.

[-] 1 points by RantCasey (782) from Saginaw, MI 2 years ago

Oh no I'm not saying ignore the issues just look for sumone that is actually going to represent you. Not the one %

[-] 1 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

Amen