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Forum Post: Connect the Dots Again

Posted 3 weeks ago on Oct. 24, 2017, 4:18 p.m. EST by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Dot 1: Payroll tax taken from the lowest paid workers in America. They pay little or no income tax(1) because the minimum deduction and dependent deductions are often greater than their incomes. The SS payroll tax is deducted at the full rate from their paychecks.

Dot 2: The Social Security Trust Fund is sufficient to keep Social Security and Medicare afloat for 20 years, until 2037. With a cut in benefits of 13% OR an increase in the payroll tax of 2% the fund is good for 75 years. Not mentioned at ssa.gov is the possibility of increasing the income ceiling ($128,700) for collection of the tax. (2)

Dot 3: Congress borrows and spends the Trust Fund on military and general spending, much of which goes into the pockets of contractors and other corporations that provide goods and services to the government. When they then pay the social security and Medicare out of revenues, they are, in reality, paying back what they borrowed and spent. This should not be seen as a Social Security or Medicare expense in the budget process. It should be seen as debt service to the Trust Fund that was borrowed and spent on other [unrelated] budget items that fattened many American investors.

Dot 4: Tax cuts do nothing to reduce deductions or increase income for most of the people who fund Social Security with the payroll tax. The payroll tax is not reduced and only taxed on the first $128,700 of income.(3) The highest income “earners” benefit hugely from the tax cut. The lowest earners benefit not at all.

Dot 5: That's when conservative politicians of both parties point to the expense of Social Security and Medicare and say it must be cut to balance the budget. What's wrong with that logic?

Dot 6: That's how the payroll taxes paid by the working poor and lower middle classes ends up in the pockets of the banksters and billionaire and CEO parasites who pay an insignificant amount if any into the Social Security Trust Fund the conservatives are stealing from US coming and going.

That's how conservatives have connected the dots for US.

(1) A little more than 43% of U.S. households -- or 70 million homes - will end up owing no federal income taxes for 2013. ... The households with zero income tax liability are not evenly distributed across income groups. The majority this year -- nearly 67% -- have incomes below $30,000.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/29/pf/taxes/who-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes/index.html

(2) As a result of changes to Social Security enacted in 1983, benefits are now expected to be payable in full on a timely basis until 2037, when the trust fund reserves are projected to become exhausted. ... immediate reduction in benefits of about 13 percent, or an immediate increase in the combined payroll tax rate from 12.4 percent to 14.4 percent, or some combination of these changes, would be sufficient to allow full payment of the scheduled benefits for the next 75 years.

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html

(3) Social Security's Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) program limits the amount of earnings subject to taxation for a given year. … We call this annual limit the contribution and benefit base. For earnings in 2018, this base is $128,700.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/cbbdet.html

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/cbb.html

81 Comments

81 Comments


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[-] 2 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

How does the proposal of printing money to fund SS convince a following to join the fight. Trump uses impossible bullshit and gets the support of perpetual fools. To suggest that printing money, a concept they've been inoculated against, is the answer is Brilliant!

SS and Medicare have morphed, in the minds of fools, from debt service to the trust fund for unrelated budget items paid in the past from the trust fund to a new budget item for SS and Medicare. That's not what it is. That is how the Trust Fund is ripped off. They simply refuse to budget SS and Medicare at the level the insurance tax on the working poor paid for. Then they give the savings and some more that they borrow to the rich as a tax cut.

Do you fiat lovers get it now or are you like a Trump supporter, who never gets anything?

The conservatives would have no vision at all if it weren't for projection of their own stupidity into others. Many who claim to be progressive have that in common with the cons who run the world.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 day ago

Connect the dots again!

The 25G cut to Medicare in the tax bill is stealing the money borrowed from the trust fund and refusing to use it for the purpose that the tax was collected from the poor. Giving it to the rich in a tax cut ....

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

The SS Ripoff is steaming at full speed. This battle can still be won.

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

give up

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

pffffttt!

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

your best response yet - simple, concise and well thought out

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

Who do you troll for? Really, who is your master? I think neither the RNC nor their ill-begotten twin, the DNC, have enough savvy to have deployed someone as profoundly foolish as you.

End of line.

[-] -1 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

this from a man who wrote - "pffffttt!" - which is only slightly more childish than this - "Dot 3: Congress borrows and spends the Trust Fund on military and general spending, much of which goes into the pockets of contractors and other corporations that provide goods and services to the government. When they then pay the social security and Medicare out of revenues, they are, in reality, paying back what they borrowed and spent. This should not be seen as a Social Security or Medicare expense in the budget process. It should be seen as debt service to the Trust Fund that was borrowed and spent on other [unrelated] budget items that fattened many American investors."

you are boring and confusing and stupid - there i said it - i was trying to remain civil but you pushed me over the edge. stupid - but being from texas you probably think you are smart. i imagine you are one of the smarter ones - like rick perry. is he a dry drunk also? probably

i notice your post has gotten a huge amount of traffic - the usual suspects - the revolution has begun and you lit the match. everyone is connecting the dots and in the streets - you frf dk. god what a far cry from zucotti park. there were dumb people there too but they were forced to remain civil and back up their argument with facts and logic - often ending up slinking away from the group discussion. what a fun time that was - did you have a site in texas - did you go?? no i imagine not. where would everyone park their pick up trucks with the gun racks?

what the hell are all you germans doing there in texas anyway - did you help steal it from mexico or did you sneak in after ww2 on the rat lines. clearly you are drinking too much of that good southern wine. is there any good southern wine??

[-] 1 points by grapes (5014) 1 week ago

Germans are probably farming in Texas where there is a huge amount of land (nearly everything is bigger, larger, and mega in Texas - so yeah, my mind dreamily drifts to 》die Würste und das goldene Bier《 ) with moomoo and much golden sunshine to accompany its low latitudes (Siberia is much bigger than Texas but without much sunshine it tends to be unproductive and depressing - Siberian Gulags struck fear into many Nazi-German soldiers). People tend to change their ways of life slowly even if they have moved very far away (e.g., from Britain to New Zealand, with their sheep). Germany was agricultural so agkaiser is likely a farmer. That means that he is very upset about what anthropogenic climate change has done to his livelihood of growing food. Yeah, Harvey must have made him a bit more nervous. I felt the same way after Irene. Oh yes, Sandy was much worse but in some sense, it was easier to deal with, due to Irene's having fore-warned of our weather exposure.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

Yes, distrust is growing at an increasing rate. "Vast Portion of t Public has absolutely no trust in government"

When enough become aware, enraged and focused on a particular issue, like the systematic ripoff of the SS Trust Fund, we can start to take our government back from the parasites that threaten our existence by their ownership and control of our economy.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33200) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

Abolish Party s and the electoral college & perhaps we can see a development of something that resembles a democracy rather than a government of by and for the wealthy few!

Consider:

No party = no gerrymandering - as how would it be done with no party districts.

Really = no party no gerrymandering Candidates 2 b made 2 run on t issues If elected & vote opposite of their campaign = forfeit office!

What 2 do with t forfeited office? Put t candidate that had t next largest # of votes in. Votes against campaign? Forfeits office = NEXT

Or & this really shld b done somehow Present t issues 2 t public & let t public vote how 2 proceed or not proceed until satisfied with offer. This is exactly why we need exceptional free education for EVERYONE!

Would still need to get money out of government/politics!

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

yeah. all requires multiple amendments to the constitution. a constitutional convention at this time could be disastrous. think about who would actually be rewriting it. It would be a lot easier to get all dissidents to focus on a single issue. the biggest plurality in the country is the lowest paid workers who pay no income tax but still pay into the SS Trust fund. they are growing restless. lets exploit that.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33200) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

1st charges filed in t Drumpf Russia probe? http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/27/politics/first-charges-mueller-investigation/index.html … If So Lets hope it is charges with real teeth in em!

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

We'll see on Monday.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33200) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

Something to look forward to - I hope.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5014) 3 weeks ago

"Out of which hole did the pee come?" After "Yes, We Can!" @1:58, the FBI goes next. New Archimedes' preschoolers want answer to that harebrained question. "επιπλέει, ευρήκα! (It floats, eureka!)"

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 3 weeks ago

what ripoff of ss trust fund. i thought it held treasuries?

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

connect the dots. they're laid out and explained in the post. if they spend the money on the tax cut then cut social security, the money that was the Trust Fund is moved to the top. It doesn't matter what SS has on paper, if it's never used to fund SS.

Again! You really need to connect the dots. READ THE POST!!!

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 3 weeks ago

i think you are making a weak argument - first this from the center on budget and policy priorities - "Despite being described by some as “funny money,” or “IOUs,” the Social Security trust funds are invested in Treasury securities that are just as sound as the U.S. government securities held by investors around the globe; investors regard those securities as being among the world’s safest investments"

you say this - "Congress borrows and spends the Trust Fund on military and general spending, much of which goes into the pockets of contractors and other corporations that provide goo"Intragovernmental Holdings. This is the portion of the federal debt owed to 230 other federal agencies. It totals $5.6 trillion, almost 30 percent of the debt."

so seems to me that the government takes in money for social security and buys treasuries with the excess (as does medicare and others) - then it uses that money to pay general obligations. same as it does when i buy a treasury bond. so your point here??

and stop being so crabby - your post is poorly thought out and confused. lastly it appears you have bought into the propaganda of the elite - very sad for someone who supports ows. the government can create all the money it needs to fund social security - obviously!

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

Who is the money for the Trust Fund collected from? Who does it end up with? It's strong, well thought out and coherent. If anyone is unwittingly supporting the elites, it's you whose [deliberate?] obtuseness fails to understand what I've written and you have? read.

So fuck off, idiot!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5014) 3 weeks ago

The whole matter of the dispute rests on the future trust to be exhibited by the investors in the "full faith and credit of the U.S." Government. If that be intact, all is well and flip will be correct. However, I doubt very much that will be the case in the future when that trust will be needed so yes, the money probably has already been stolen in plain sight. Hence, you are very likely correct, rather than flip.

You do need to keep in mind though that the credibility of the U.S. depends on having the unrivaled supreme military power (without which there would have been no petrodollar). Every dime and life spent on the military helps shore up the American way of life although we ourselves are greatly undermining the other power that we used to have in abundance through international institutions. There's hard power and there's soft power. America ceases to be great when it ceases to be good (doing "square deals" - read/listen to "The New Nationalism" speech by Teddy Roosevelt in 1910). We don't have to go at difficult tasks all alone, if we are going for the common good. Greater America will help.

Fickleness doesn't cut it so MAGA will probably fail miserably. Even "the terrible-two" toddlers ask (respectfully) the question, "Have you counted to two already?"

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

My concern is finding a way to create a focus that can columnate the working poor to support their self interest in a way that, unlike Trump and the cons, will actually bring about a positive change and really work for the victims. Right now racism and xenophobia etc are how they're kept stupid and off balance in their comprehension of the evil that has befallen US.

To me, credibility and world power, while an important issue, are irrelevant to the alleviation of impoverishment and debt slavery of Americans by Americans. Changing the subject like that is a distraction that helps to perpetuate the evil.

Lack of focus is a great part of what impedes change.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5014) 3 weeks ago

"Impoverishment and debt slavery of Americans by Americans" came about at least partly through the hordes of foreigners/illegal aliens/"highly skilled" immigrants "unavailable in the U.S." undercutting U.S. domestic employment. The subsequent rage from the squeezed people is understandable to me at least. Of course, these targets of rage are often victims, too, although less than (due to the generally worse-than-U.S. compensated jobs available in their countries of origin such as India) the squeezed out Americans, because they all wear "leashes" of one kind or another. Both sides were pitched against each other in a joust to entertain and enrich "the Lords and Ladies."

Refugees are easy whipping boys and girls as always but they are scrutinized the most vigorously and therefore mostly legal (with the U.S. living up to its human rights treaty promises and gaining soft power by taking the refugees in -- international conventions can be very important: if no one can trust the U.S., we would not even be able to surrender with a white flag because we would be shot dead instead!). They also tend to take up the lowliest jobs in our society so their impact on the better-paid-job seekers is mostly rather muted. This is why I say that the Trumpian rage against refugees is misdirected.

I agree that there are major problems elsewhere with the foreigners/illegal aliens/"highly skilled" immigrants "unavailable in the U.S." However, building "the Wall being paid for by Mexico" is definitely an act of "pissing down the leg of our trousers" due to prostate enlargement in old age. Most illegal aliens came in legally but overstayed their visas. Better visa enforcement is more desirable than spending billions of dollars building a Wall (to be paid for by Mexico [a SOVEREIGN neighbor, duh!], yeah, right, [no-can-do without using soft power and fickleness has already degraded that greatly] hahaha!) in the middle of the very deadly and formidable wilderness areas.

As the Wall, Racism and Xenophobia are also symptoms of prostate enlargement, pissing down the (wrong!) leg due to the ur--gen--cy... I dig "the urgency" of the "golden drizzle" alright.

With Archimedes' spirit after the critical anatomical review, we the curious preschoolers asked, "Out of which hole did the pee come?" Hey, Donald and Eric! It's time for "field research" to find out.

It seems that water tower maintenance needs to be deregulated for more freedom to get sick. Unprofitable hospitals and clinics as well as unemployed medical care providers (such as the highly paid doctors and nurses) need to be made profitable and employed again to increase the economic growth (as measured by the gross domestic product - recently, All-Amurricanes Harvey, Irma, and Maria, and the Khali-fornica vino furies have already done a great job and they will certainly boost growth tremendously as the rebuilding takes place - Kim Jong-un is actually the manna from Heaven that will greatly stimulate the economic growth in the aftermath, probably far exceeding his grandpa's great achievement of helping to create the economic miracle in modern Japan and making sure DPRK become stunted in the 1950s and stay dark at night for a human lifetime's air defense against.... ahhhhh, yes! The bats, the✠Redcoats✠from the H.M.S. Brexit, are coming to bomb every night! [because the U.S.S. John McCain needs convalescence from the surgery due to glioma]).

"Yeah, the boiled Brussels sprouts are so bland. Now, let's play marbles."

[-] 1 points by grapes (5014) 3 weeks ago

The U.S. is globally involved, no matter what you say or pray. Racism and xenophobia are justifiable knee-jerk reactions to the illness that befalls our people. They are misdirected but I know very well the feelings of my people because I have lived through the doubling and tripling of gasoline prices and lines of cars at gas stations.

I didn't drive so the news was just breezes blowing past my teenaged ears. Little did I know that I and my family would be completely uprooted by the reverberations. Yes, indeed, FUCK "Yalusalaam" -- the whoㄹey cuzco mental curse on ALL mankind to be "fruitful" and nutty aß Khali-fornica!

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 3 weeks ago

sorry you are wrong - the ss fund collects money from working people and puts the excess in treasury bonds. it pays out money to retirees. the social security fund holds treasuries - so do many governmental agencies and china and rich people. where is the problem? maybe i could not properly understand your argument - maybe you can explain it better and simply so that i can get it - can you? don't get mad just because you don't understand money. you keep making the same mistake and seem unable to admit or correct it. why is that?

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

The problem is the tax cuts and cuts in SS/Medicare benefits. Connect the dots!

Money is debt. Money represents wealth. Creating more money only creates more debt to exchange for the same amount of real goods. Real goods and material resources are the wealth. What the fuck are you raving about?

I suspect you don't want to connect the dots or know the truth about anything. Why is that?

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 3 weeks ago

yes cuts in social security and medicare are big problems but different from the trust fund issue you raised. political problems not financial problems.

yes money is debt but only if it is created by private banks and not when created by governments. when the fed buys treasuries it is paid interest on those bonds - and that interest is given back to the treasury dept. when the bonds mature the fed turns them in and is paid back the principle - it then gives that money back to the treasury. you need to tell me where the problem is for the population here or maybe connect the dots differently

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

seriously. how is it you so pitifully miss the point ... over and over again.

Money is not wealth! No matter who creates the money, there is no more wealth to buy with it. Wealth is material. Money is a token that represents material things.

I'm sorry you can't see what I've plainly stated about taxing the poor (SS payroll tax) and giving income tax cuts to the rich. The poor don't pay income tax therefore do not benefit. Don't you see the connection? What is so hard about that for you?

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 3 weeks ago

very good points here - nice job. money is not wealth - correct but that was not the argument. this was the original question remember - "what ripoff of ss trust fund?"

to which you replied - "if they spend the money on the tax cut then cut social security, the money that was the Trust Fund is moved to the top. It doesn't matter what SS has on paper, if it's never used to fund SS"

now you morph it into "money is not wealth" - no shit. i'm glad you finally figured that out and hopefully will stop with the money masters crap. ok so now let's talk about your issues. the poor do collect social security when they retire and it is often all they have. lets print money and raise those payments - no? then instead of tax cuts for the rich lets get the fed to buy more treasuries and give the poor a once yearly payout of say $10k. would that solve your problem? so now it is a political problem not a money problem or a SOCIAL SECURITY RIPOFF

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

How does your proposal convince a following to join the fight. Trump uses impossible bullshit and gets the support of perpetual fools. You suggest that printing money, a concept they've been inoculated against, is the answer. Brilliant!

SS and Medicare have morphed, in the minds of fools, from debt service to the trust fund for unrelated budget items paid in the past from the trust fund to a new budget item for SS and Medicare. That's not what it is. That is how the Trust Fund is ripped off. They simply refuse to budget SS and Medicare at the level the insurance tax on the working poor paid for. Then they give the savings and some more that they borrow to the rich as a tax cut.

Do you get it now or are you like a Trump supporter, who never gets anything?

The conservatives would have no vision at all if it weren't for projection of their own stupidity into others. You have that in common with the cons who run the world.

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 3 weeks ago

I am not interested in convincing people - I am interested in the truth. do you think that this convoluted thinking will convince anyone - "SS and Medicare have morphed, in the minds of fools, from debt service to the trust fund for unrelated budget items paid in the past from the trust fund to a new budget item for SS and Medicare. That's not what it is. That is how the Trust Fund is ripped off. They simply refuse to budget SS and Medicare at the level the insurance tax on the working poor paid for. Then they give the savings and some more that they borrow to the rich as a tax cut."

the trust fund in in treasuries - where china and rich saudis and American keep their money - it is safe - under funded but safe

the American people watched as the government gave the banks trillions and there was no revolution. do you think m Hudson's simple explanation of how government money works could convince them that their ss payments could be increased. I do - let's find out.

as for carry water for the 1% - you and that other dumb ass inflation hawk - hard money fool are doing that. obviously!

lastly just because you can't understand something - or maybe worse you realize you are wrong there is no reason to name call and act like a child - oh did I say dumb ass and fool - well I take it back even if it is true. obviously!

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

You're projecting again! I know you'll not understand or believe that if you did know what it meant. It's the same old shit ... Boring.

[-] -2 points by flip (7101) 3 weeks ago

I agree it is boring - you just keep at your line of thinking and convince all you can that the ss trust fund is going broke. that we have to raise the retirement age to 70 and cut benefits to those who can least afford it. we can't print money since it would create inflation that is bad - really bad! and of course we have to freak out about the DEBT!

[-] 4 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

I never said the trust fund was going broke. I never said we can't print money. I never said any of the words you must put in my mouth to convince yourself that you know what you're talking about.

The debt is not the problem. it's the money they borrow to spend on contractors and other budget items. then when it's time to use the trust fund to pay SS and Medicare the budget can't afford it. then they give a tax cut to the same parasites who got the bloated budget payouts that the trust fund was borrowed to allow. The trust fund is still there on paper but it will never be utilized at the level paid for by the tax on the working poor or for the purpose intended.

So who are you defending with your obtuse and childish distortions?

I know that's too much for you to process. I just wonder which one or two words of that you'll choose to respond to in some unresponsive and inane way? That pattern of deception and your denseness are what's boring.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5014) 3 weeks ago

Flip, I wish that you had figured out a few years ago that the "golden drizzle" was squirting out of that hole, "Olympus Mons" in the Amazonia period. It's now official, "There's gold in them Pis!" Recall the story of the very silky polyurethane.

Trying to be the loud (but not dumb) ass, I shared the information about that water with all who didn't mind getting "golden-showered." Bravo! Donald John Trump is now the most powerful and yet impotent (not completely his fault, though; it's our designed-in systemic hysteresis working amazOnioningly well!) Man in the World. Junior is not as much a loser as he thinks so no spanking is deserved.

Anyone who worships the Onions in the Cathedral of the People is blessed by the Holy Spirit. There are monthly tours (@3:04 of video) so go worship there with your significant other(s) on Valentine's Day. Aren't my first pets beautiful and magical? Like Jesus, some walk On water!

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 3 weeks ago

well you are never boring - confusing but never boring

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 weeks ago

''Building Momentum: How Grassroots Organizers Redefined and Rebuilt UK's Labour Party With Jeremy Corbyn'', by Sarah Jaffe:

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33200) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

ALL of THIS & MORE is Y a Vast Portion of t Public has absolutely no trust in government (State as well as Fed - @GOP or @DNC ) any-longer! https://twitter.com/DKAtoday/status/923270394399940608

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 3 weeks ago

I hope the fact that many Dems buy into the rationalization for stealing so much of the working poor's money to feed the rich parasites who own everything is fun for everyone, not just the cons and the DNC/RNC.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5014) 3 weeks ago

Lesson of the 2007-2011 Punctuated Crash is unlearnt by the Inbreds: https://www.yahoo.com/news/senate-gop-moves-repeal-consumer-230226193.html

The Beast is unleashed. There's no escaping the 》 Weg.《

The number of distinguishable states of any finite ensemble is finite. The diffusion law governs all transitions amongst them. A future state is a past state. "The future is but the past in the shadow." 日本国, 万歳! 金日成, 万歳! 万万歳! Amero-Euroasian Empire's stepping stone is China: Hail to our Leaders!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 2 weeks ago

you should go to some meetings and tell them they shouldn't do that.....or you could just talk up the Greens and help elect more GOP maybe you like what they do more than the Dems, I get such a kick out of people who think they can change a nation but totally give up on changing a Party...

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

the dems need a wake up call. their neo liberal agenda is too conservative to ever bring about a significant change. I will vote for Greens until the Greens' power grows or the dems wake up! This is not a discussion. I am determined. That's all folks!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 2 weeks ago

Shutting down the discussion? That tried and true conservative technique I understand why you would not want to engage in a serious discussion of wither or not we should all come together to defeat the GOP, you prefer to be divisive.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

That's right! And no words of yours or anyone's will move me from the only course that has a chance of success.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 2 weeks ago

The GOP thanks you.

Have you noticed how much like Trump you sound?

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

What don't you understand about a call to arms?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5014) 1 week ago

Don't start till there is a three-to-one advantage (and a post-bellum plan for Labia). I remember the command, "Don't shoot till you can see the white of their eyes."

Even Texass can shoot green and feel the kick through the biggest ass-shield in our Union when Mother Nature comes around in her steel-hobnailed jillboots.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 week ago

Don't worry. I'm only communicating my determination. My arms will remain concealed until at least 1/3 [not 75%] have screwed up sufficient courage to face the facts.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

In the fall of 2011 there was 80% support and OWS members were on every network all they had to do was point out that the GOP works to make the rich richer and it would have change everything.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 week ago

sadly, past opportunity is lost. like 2016 election, it's way past time to move on. fixing the blame does not fix problems. it only creates more new ones.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

Look I very well understand the Dems are not perfect what I don't understand is why anyone who cares about anything could allow a Republican to win anywhere.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 week ago

I don't know who is attracted to conservatism except liars and the fools who believe them, and, of course, the LCD of morality and scruples like billionaires and nazis. There's little hope for the Bs and Ns but if the Repugs keep winning things will get bad enough to awaken some of the more innocent fools. Not much of an upside but there it is.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5014) 1 week ago

I know, I know, an intersection of all you have mentioned -- the selfless "boy-scout" President/Swamp Hotel Owner who wants to sacrifice his own financial interests so that the descendants of the wealthy can be golden-showered (a Russian-prostitute specialty, l suppose, according to the dossier) by the death of the "death tax" to create Dynasties -- as in the 1980s, the fools must dream on for golden (fire and brimstone) gushers, before the Yellowstone supervolcano's eruption buries them with ash. He called to solicit because he's going to Calvary bearing his Cross for all of you! "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." The Great walRUS saves!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

We should move forward on a united front and continue to defeat the GOP as we did in VA yesterday.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 week ago

write on!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

So you will follow your ego and continue to allow the GOP to win, I see, well enjoy the Trump Presidency bought to you by supporters of Jill Stein everywhere...

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 week ago

It didn't take long for you to prove I got your number

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

I hope I can count on you to support our BEST chance of defeating the GOP, remember nothing is more divisive than supporting a Green and the GOP love it when you do.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 week ago

I'll support what I see as the best way to achieve the demise of the neo liberal conservatism that infects both major parties and threatens the survival of the human race and life contemporary on the Planet Earth.

I don't know who is attracted to neo-liberal conservatism except liars and the fools who believe them, and, of course, the LCD of morality and scruples like billionaires and nazis. There's little hope for the Bs and Ns but if the Repugs keep winning things will get bad enough to awaken some of the more innocent fools. Not much of an upside to the conservative wave that is drowning us but there it is.

Oh, and who made you [FrF] the arbiter of righteous action and political correctness?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

So Trump is in the WH because of your stupidity and you think "numbers" matter? WTF are you 5?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

So just like DWS you are going to decide you think should win and support them no matter how the race goes?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

Did you know there was a time when there was serious discussion on this site?

One by one people who knew how stupid it was to actually vote for fools like Stein were ran off and with them any chance of OWS actually doing anything.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

I understand how people like you help elect the GOP do you?

I don't understand how you sleep at night.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 week ago

I sleep ok. You, I'm sure, sleep in the arms of Morpheus: the dope your on is supplied by the neo liberal traitors to the human race who've coopted the dumbocratic party and sell dreams to the fools like you on the left. The fantasies you're addicted to are actually conservative nightmares.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

Enjoy the Trump presidency after all it couldn't have happened without your help.

[-] 0 points by grapes (5014) 1 week ago

Lander Trumpery has kept the body count due to the terrorists of recent foreign origin way down relative to that due to the mentally "deranged" native-borns. I feel much safer now even without the Great WalRUS anime body pillow of the body carrier Retard-i-can't USS Lander.

백두산 기상을 다 안고

온 세계 앞서 나가리

Der Weisskopfschuppen im Wind der Veränderung zur ganzen Welt

"The world is closing in

Did you ever think

That we could be so close, like brothers"

黄帝子孙抵抗人民解放军!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33200) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

I understand how you elect the GOP - you obviously don't understand.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

I worked for Bernie till he endorsed HRC then I worked for her, you on the other hand helped elect Trump.

You are stupid as shit DK!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33200) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

Like I said and you again confirmed.

I understand how you elect the GOP - you obviously don't understand.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

I have consistently held that only by killing the GOP can we move forward you on the other hand say it makes no difference you may like to feel and talk as if you dislike the GOP: but all the while you throw your vote in the trash so they can win.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33200) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

There you go with a blatant lie.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

oh did you do all you could to get HRC as many votes as possible? or did you help elect Trump?

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33200) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 week ago

U can't prove that sHillary would even have been t lesser evil. I grant u that she would have been t less publicly open about it!

[-] -2 points by flip (7101) 2 weeks ago

oh my god - "the only course that has a chance for success" - you must be kidding. you are dumber than i thought - and that is hard to be. read some history son - you will find that it is hard to predict the future. you two deserve each other - soon this site will be just the two of you - ows - wow. maybe grapes will still be around to bring some thoughtful ideas up once in a while

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 1 week ago

coward

[-] 1 points by grapes (5014) 2 weeks ago

Remember what billions upon billions of people worldwide all agree upon: there is Only one God! Trying to reconcile Freedom, Justice, and Love, we are all living in the Supreme Fascist state, a dictatorship of the Majority of One: Who is, Who was, and Who is to come.

There's simply No 'and,' 'if,' or 'but.' Jesus prayed in Gethsemane but He still had to drink the vinegar from a sponge on a stick to finish it.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 2 weeks ago

If you want to save SS you should try to defeat the GOP at the polls.

Do I need to go thorough all the differences between the Dems and the GOP when it comes to SS or are you aware?

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

The neo liberals that control the DNC, who together with conservatives guarantee our government will only support the corporations against the people, are a contamination of the left that neuters us politically. Their minimal positive influence is insufficient to save the human race from extinction by the stupidity and greed of the conservatives they serve.

It will have to get worse before a critical mass of voters regain their sanity and purge our system of the disease of neo liberalism and conservatism that is threatening our existence. If that doesn't happen in time, we will die.

I can't vote for Trump or Hillary types, or any neo liberal conservative, whether open or in some pretend left wing closet, until the left is purged of corporatist treachery.

I'll vote for Greens until things deteriorate to the inevitable end or the idiots wake up and demand a real change. It may be a close race but death is the probable winner.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5014) 2 weeks ago

There is such a thing as a good death. Life and death are just different perspectives on the same phase change, a little bit like how Bremsstrahlung, Compton scattering, and electron-positron pair production can all be viewed as the same process. There are conservation laws guaranteeing eternity in the midst of "nothing lasts forever" but for every birth a death has been assured and for every death a birth happens. They are all just correlations producing in aggregate the emergent concept of "time." Quantum theory reigns supreme in the extreme quantumly isolated realm where past, present, and future devolve into meaninglessness as time (but Not entropy) doesn't exist without any correlation. "The view" macroscopically is under the control of thoughts which GABA neurotransmitter can inhibit the associated actions. Nonchalant dying/living is therefore possible by controlling GABA concentration. All thoughts are physical.

The qualities of a good death are: https://qz.com/727042/the-11-qualities-of-a-good-death-according-to-research/

No one gets out of life alive, by definition, so we may as well have some fun living well (U.S.A.: 言論自由來自民主義勇軍槍枝{a 3€ Meow thought} asymptotically "in pursuit of happiness," which consists of clean air, clean water, clean foods, good sanitation, all in sufficient quantities, qualities, and varieties, no disease, no crime, no war, lots of conveniences[elevators: horizontal and vertical, instant coffee, tea, cake mixes, auto-heat ready-to-eat delicious meals, instantaneous and ubiquitous communication, on-time and low-cost deliveries to the home, ...], and education/entertainments).

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1883) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 weeks ago

uh ... yeah ....

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8783) from Phoenix, AZ 2 weeks ago

I understand Donald J Trump thanks you for your support.

So now it is revealed that you are the divisive force that allows the GOP to win.

When SS disappears you can stand before a mirror and tell yourself what a great job you did.

Can you think of anything more divisive than supporting the Greens?