Forum Post: Concerns about antisemitism
Posted 12 years ago on Sept. 28, 2011, 7:54 a.m. EST by rarara
(27)
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Hello and greetings of solidarity to the protesters on Wall Street!
I am writing to ask what can be done about the existence of anti-Semitic statements made by so-called supporters of the protest?
It is common for statements to be made, placing overwhelming blame and responsibility on Jews for the economic crisis.
In the Declaration of Principles, the assembly passed a resolution opposing oppression. Is it possible to make this statement more explicit, so that those who seek to use the protests for oppressive aims, will not be able to do so?
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.
With solidarity!
There is nothing anti semitic about pointing out the fact that Israel has too much power in our government, pointing out that they are carrying out a long term protracted genocide against the palestinians, pointing out that their assorted control mechanisms and games are part of the elites over all con scam against the people. However. All of those things are off topic to a protest environment and those issues are far too hot and complicated to be dealt with on the street. https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150409084095833
Gawwdoftruth Well said and thank you very much.
How did you even come to these topics -- which have nothing to do with US politics -- if you weren´t obsessed with jews.
working on the problems the humans have.
they have everything to do with US politics. US is in essence a pwn for the crown and israel and that explains pretty much everything US government does that otherwise makes no sense.
in a nuthshell !
satire, right?
rarara......I'm very sorry but this " tactic " of labelling everything as being anti-Semitism no longer works since a former Israeli minister has already " spilled the beans "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW3a1bw5XlE
i will be happy to talk qaballah with your rabis as soon as you all stop killing palestinians and robbing their land and pretending like its everybody else whos doing wrong while your knives are dripping with the blood of innocents. Until you; israel, stop your war crimes, you are every bit as bad and maybe worse than Nazi Germany. Any takers from the great thought police or paid Israeli trolls who want to go to town on this one can feel free to step up to bat here and now. Or we can all walk away from this and understand the truth. This is not about the USA foreign policy. this is an internal dispute between the citizens of the USA and its rogue government and rogue economic system. Dear Earth. USA is experiencing technical difficulties,. sorry.. we are doing all we can to get it back in order.. please help and stay on the line.
not at all. Wake up and take a real look. Israel is an evil fascist nation carrying out a slow motion genocide. It has so much power in America that no public servant dares to speak against it. It consistantly defies and breaks UN security council resolutions and can be called quite absolutely and exactly a fascist and evil rogue state which chronically breaks international laws. I'm not at all holding back here because THIS is the internet. I know the truth. These are not truths to try to share shouting on a street corner.
Stay the course. This is not about Israel. This is not about Zionism or Jews or Christians or Buddhists or Muslims. This is about the corruption and greed of the 1% that has been gambling with our very lives for TOO LONG. And that 1% is made up of many ethnic groups, and pretend to ascribe to many religions. The only God they have is Mammon. The only sacrifices the corrupt make are OUR sacrifices.
Read up kids: Neo-nazis have routinely attempted to coopt outrage against globalization and economic corruption and redirect the public's anger into demonization of Jews. Don't let infiltrators like Scout here go unopposed, otherwise you're sanctioning their rhetoric.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_anti-globalization_movement
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Extremism_72/4130_72.htm
http://contested-terrain.net/countering-the-neo-nazis-and-their-anti-capitalism/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo/message/2885
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/antiglobalisms-jewish-problem
See the problem is that people are labeled antisemites for even so much as questioning Israeli policies. If the term wasnt used so much and applied to so many people ALL THE TIME it would be easier to spot a real antisemite.
Can you give an example of this, particularly of that happening here?
I don't think it's that hard if you know the difference between antisemitism and legitimate criticism.
"Israel is committing human rights abuses." = Not antisemitism.
"Israel is filled with inhuman evil Jews." = Antisemitism.
"Jews are overrepresented in financial trades and behave in a way inconsistent with the tenets of their faith." = Not antisemitism.
"Evil greedy Jewish bankers run Washington, Wall Street and the world!" = Antisemitism.
I think this is over-simplistic. Not every form of racism, antisemitism, or sexism is expressed in such explicit terms. They are much more subtle forms. Antisemitism does not begin when one attacks Jews with expletives. It has already begun when one blames Jews for the economic crisis. And this has already occurred on this forum.
Sure, lots of Jews work in finance. Lots of other Jews think they're dicks. That's why this Jew is organizing a Shabbat solidarity potluck tonight at OWS. http://openetherpad.org/Zk7NGqTbgo
I strongly recommend that everyone read "The Past Didn't Go Anywhere: Making Resistance to Anti-Semitism Part of All Our Movements" http://pinteleyid.com/past-read.pdf
Also: Jews were forced into financial trades by antisemites who wouldn't let them hold jobs in other trades. Go read page 56 of this book http://www.amazon.com/dp/1851094393/ref=rdr_ext_tmb, the entry on "Banker, Jewish." The fact that Jews are still demonized to this day for having a hand in banking is just age old persecution running its course. Anyone who tries to justify it is guilty of antisemitism, no matter how right they think they are.
This image right here basically says, "Hey Jewish New Yorkers who aren't anti-Zionists and don't identify with the message of cutting foreign aid to Israel: This protest is not for you and you are not welcome here." http://f.cl.ly/items/2t0t0f0u2w3s2G0Q0m1O/end_aid_to_israel.jpg
I have already seen Jewish people who have gone to show solidarity posting messages on Facebook saying they don't feel welcome because there is a strong anti-Israel message connected to the demonstrations.
I am an anti-occupation activist. I totally get that Israel is committing human rights abuses and that the U.S. is helping to pay for it. However, that has nothing to do with opposing corporate personhood (which was what the message of the protests was decided to be from the mass-Facebook vote) or in holding Wall Street bankers accountable for their corruption.
If you want this to succeed as a popular movement, it means you have to tell the anti-Zionists to put their off-topic signs away or to go home. Otherwise, the Jews, the evangelicals, and anyone else who just so happens to disagree with the Ron Paul and/or the pro-Palestine crowd – incidentally the majority of Americans http://www.gallup.com/poll/126155/support-israel-near-record-high.aspx – will never join you.
Can you please give actual examples of anti-Semitic statements made by supporters of the protest ?
I'm designing an arcology based on the tree of life. anybody want to talk turkey and something interesting or is this only some sort of argument echo chamber?
I agree with Bizinuez. Focus is important here. It's not ones religious beliefs, nationality, political party, ethnic group or colour of ones' skin. It's so much bigger than that!
As we stand shoulder to shoulder in creating a dialogue that shows those who feel they are above the fray that the current situation the nation finds itself is no longer viable, tolerable or equitable--- we must all remember: It takes both the black and white keys on the piano to play our National Anthem.
Separatist mindset has no place here. We must work together to inspire one another to become bigger versions of our "best selves" standing for the higher good--opening the door that will usher in the "Change we can ALL believe in."
I think we should all be aware that, as the Occupations gain traction, the ruling class will send provocateurs and other operatives to try to derail and neutralize the movement. One of the favorite methods of provocateurs, besides inciting physical violence, is to incite or promote racial, ethnic or religious hostility. Rightist media people are waiting at the phone to get reports of these incidents and publicize them as 'proof' that the Occupation is anti-Semitic, anti-Black, anti-Christian, or whatever. Whenever you hear or see this stuff going on, don't tolerate it; call it out. It won't work if it's exposed.
Yes, you have no agency. You are not responsible for anything. Whenever anything happens that you dislike, it is because of the powerful conspiracy behind the scenes. This is dogmatic nonsense "Anarcissie". Get a grip. You don´t prove your intelligence by pointing to the obvious fact that there are state methods to interrupt social movements. This is obvious. You reveal you are living in paranoid state when you reduce everything to a cooked up conspiracy. This movement will only succeed if it expressly opposes racism in all its guises. And that´s what it sets out to do with it´s principle of opposition to oppression.
I think you should read what I wrote, actually.
I think the focus should be that the people are OWNERS, not what religion or ethnicity anyone is. We're not mad at people because they are Jewish, we are mad at people because they own and mismanage oppressive institutions. Ethnicity is irrelevant. There are plenty of people from every ethnicity that despise the Wall Street and Fed institutions too.
Exactly. The jews will try to make this a "jew" thing. The blacks will try to make this a "black" thing. It was a problem in the 60's as well. But we all know that these issues are far BEYOND race and religion. Keep to the issues and take a look at what GandhiKing and Chef have been putting together for a LIST OF DEMANDS in Washington D.C.
No "Patriot4change", it is a very small minority of the non-Jews who make it a "jew thing" when they preach anti-Semitic hate.
Nobody listens to those anti-Semitic assholes anymore. My Jewish friends and coworkers are intelligent, open-minded people. But I've noticed that every time there is a "movement" in this Country, my Jewish friends are secretly afraid that it will eventually turn into another Nazi Germany thing to persecute the Jews. I understand their fears. But nobody in this day and age is going to let that ever happen again.
The innumerable comments on this thread are not reassuring, including your own. Instead of criticizing anti-jewish statements, you accuse jews of "making it a 'jew' thing." How do you expect people to react? This is one reason why the protests don't garner as much support as they should. Because conspiracy-theory cyber lunatics swarm the website and give viewers the impression that the protest is really a crackpot gathering, rather than a social justice movement.
with all due respect and with all the effort I can to make this statement as nonconfrontational as possible, the public has every right to be outraged at the owners of the US Federal reserve and unfortunately the vast majority of this highly corrupt institution is owned by people from one particular country.
Thanks for providing exhibit 1 for a collection of anti-semitic statements: The charge that the US Federal Reserve is owned by Israelis or by Jews.
rarara, so you know, your witch hunt makes you suspect. I was there when we chased out a guy with a sign that said "Jewish Bankers", but I was also there when we included a guy who held a sign that said "Zionist Pigs".
Yes, it is a "witchhunt" for asking how the anti-oppression principle included in the Occupy Wall Street "Declaration of Principles" should be applied in cases of anti-jewish prejudice.
Like I said before, you are suspect.
I am shaking in my boots.
look into who was involved in setting up the Federal Reserve in 1913.
Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin (Rothschild and world economy) Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York Lehman Brothers Bank of New York Goldman Sachs Bank of New York Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Controlled By the Rockefeller Family Tree)
Unless Rothschild, Lazard, Sieff, Warburg, Kuhn, Loeb, Lehman, Goldman, Sachs, and Rockefeller are Norwegian or some such other unlikely nationality, I'd say that, yes, they are owned by Jews.
Actually Scout, that's an outright lie perpetuated by bona fide antisemites. http://www.adl.org/special_reports/control_of_fed/print.asp
Actually Mobuis I would have greater belief in fairies at the bottom of my garden than what the Anti-Defamation League attempts to say on this issue.
http://www.freeworldfilmworks.com/afed-bernanke3.htm
neo-nazi infiltrator. follow your leader. http://spb.fotolog.com/photo/11/23/98/mawin/1209846839_f.jpg
you or anybody can't prove whether it's an outright lie or not because it is such a highly secretive organisation and I wonder why?
Scout, did you copy and paste this from a neo-nazi website, or is this your own brilliant post?
yes
There are Christians and people of other beliefs also involved in Wallstreet crash and bailouts of 2008. So no use in just identifying just people of one faith who obviously as we know played and continue to play a large role in Wallstreet and it's activities.
If the idea that binds us is stronger than many differences, we should be fine.
I don´t understand. Are you saying forms of discrimination or racism are tolerable as long as those individuals also hate Wall Street?
If our intentions are honest, democratic and in everybody's interest then we will do well. Race, religion and other differences do not matter in a democracy.
Exactly. The jews will try to make this a "jew" thing. The blacks will try to make this a "black" thing. It was a problem in the 60's as well. But we all know that these issues are far BEYOND race and religion. Keep to the issues and take a look at what GandhiKing and Chef have been putting together for a LIST OF DEMANDS in Washington D.C.
No "Patriot4change", it is a very small minority of the non-Jews who make it a "jew thing" when they preach anti-Semitic hate.
Hear, hear!