Forum Post: Communism Now!
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 7, 2011, 12:33 p.m. EST by CommunismNow
(11)
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Support Obama so he can fulfill his Great Ambition. Fundamentally changing a free American Republic based on capitalism, freedom of speech, the rule of law, equal opportunities with unequal results into a full fledged Communist Nation!
No longer shall we be subjugated to having the highest standard of living. No longer shall we have the best economy in the world. No longer shall the people have the rights they were raised with. No longer shall we have any rights other than what our beloved dictator government deems we are worthy of.
No more I say! Raise your fists against the evil rich who pay not only their fair share of the taxes, but yours too. Who pay for the poor's share of the tax burdens created by fellow socialists by the Democrats. Who shall create jobs in our country once we have dismantled the U.S.A.? Good point...Hmm. Where will all the money go once we steal it from those who earned it? Damn it!
Ya know what? This whole protest is startin' to stink to high heaven. Corporations make everything we use, need, or desire. Look at this great computer, and your cell phone...that's a swank iPod you got there and I really envy your wealth because you got one of those neat iPads, gaming system, or totally rad car. Well shit! Guess we can blame ourselves for not making the best of our own gifts, talents, and opportunities...OR...BLAME CANADA!...(and the evil rich Democrats/Socialists party leaders/Communists Movement - Obama and gang)
You obviously don't know shit about Communism if you think the Democrats, or Obama are Socialists. They may take ideas from us, but they do not represent us.
Why not?
The second people question capitalism they are communists. Could you imagine how shitty Americans would be at communism. The government says do what we tell you. Americans say if I dont listen to my parents why do I have to listen to you?
Then we'd wind up in the gulag.
It is not capitalism that we are against -- it is the laisser faire wild west capitalism that needs to go.
There are very few communists in this movement. Most are anti-communist. They just want to get a fair wage for their labours. Our jobs are going overseas to a genuine communist oligarchy that kills union organizers. I don't think we should be supporting such people -- we should make what we use. The U.S.A and the U.K. were dismantled my the upper class not by communists.
Glad to see you've drunk the cool aid. The ignorance of your comments reflect the Fox News view of the world. No real thought, no legitimate understanding of the issues, no real solutions. Government has a legitimate role but not enriching friends and relatives at the expense of the populace. Shouting free market slogans while failing to acknowledge that we have created the opposite is nonsense.
Communism is a political policy with a socialist economy. Democracy (in this country) is a political policy with a capitalist economy. Lets combine the best elements of the two: A democratic country with a socialist economy??? Have a look at Denmark and their socio-economic policies...
Nice idea.
But i think that soon people will come to communism. Because in my opinion, communism better then capitalism.
Then why did the Russians, Chinese, & now Cuba turn to capitalism?
Yeah, right on man!
You can call it communism; you can call it democracy; you can call it freedom; you can call it 'the pursuit of happiness -- I don't care. As long as it's not what we have now, which is anti-democratic, corrupt, unfair, egoistic, inhuman, and simply not working for the vast majority of the world's population.
You can try to scare people away by whining about communism and socialism as something worse than what we have now, but it's not going to work anymore. Most people have had enough of your tricks and sleight of hands. We can see through it all. When you called it communism, all you did was replace the black boot of capitalism with the red boot of Communism with a capital 'c'. When you called it socialism you bailed out big banks while you let millions lose their homes and jobs without batting an eye. And then you gave us Obama, and tried to give us hope in the system because at least we had the democratic right to choose a president every 4 years, right?
And then he turned out to be a false hope as well. He was bought and sold by your money long ago -- otherwise he'd never been able to make is so far, would he? No; people you really think are dangerous are shot and killed, as history has shown time and time again.
Enough of this crap! This is the first time in modern history that the new generation is going to be worse off than the previous ones. You've screwed up. You weren't able to manage the millions and billions you took from the sweat of our brow with decency and responsibly, the greed was too much for you to control. You're done. You have outplayed your historical role, and these Occupy movements are the first flashes of people becoming aware of it.
And what will come after you, you self-proclaimed masters of the world who can't even master the greed that is in your own hearts? We will come after you, we the people. We will institute governments without allowing your dirty hands to soil the levels of power with money. We will ensure that our representatives are recalled immediately when they do not do what we elected them to do. We will make sure that democracy does not only apply to politics, which is corrupted and perverted in a million ways by our money and the influence that gives to you, but also to the economy.
You have no right to fire workers who have built up a great company, just because you have a piece of paper in your hands that says you own that company. FUCK YOU and that piece of paper. The workers built that company, not you. We should democratically decide how the company functions, not you. And you certainly should not be allowed to suck off our work to buy Private Jets, yachts and all kinds of other disgusting luxuries which you parade around on television before our eyes, in a vulgar attempt to distract us and tantalize our fantasies with hopes of one day attaining the same lifestyle, possibly.
Is that communism? Is that socialism? Is that democracy? Is that freedom? I don't care what you call it; it's common sense, it's decent, it's people taking their lives and futures into their own hands, and making sure a tiny minority isn't allowed to control the rest of us. That's what it is. Call it whatever the fuck you want, we don't care anymore. You can't scare us anymore with your hollow rhetoric.
☭ Only socialism can save USA. Only socialism.
That's what we've got and what making Europe go broke. Got any other ideas?
Why the hell in America do you think that the only alternative to capitalism is communism ? This time is far behind us. Let's think ahead.
You know what word is the most OUTDATED word in our society? COMMUNISM. That fact is, some of the most SUCCESSFUL societies in the world are Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Germany, Austria and the list goes on. Did you know that Canada currently has the LOWEST Unemployment and the HIGHEST GDP of all nations. Did you know that South Korea is the 2nd most profitable economy in the World-- and they maintain a Nationalist/Isolationist society? How do I know this? I have not only studied these economies... I have lived and worked in ALL of them. The fact remains, the United States could benefit from adopting many different aspects of other successful countries/societies around the world. And, yes, that includes some of the positive aspects that YOU call Socialism. The U.S. barely escaped bankruptcy in August. Now, they have barely escaped bankruptcy this October. So doesn't it stand to reason that it is time to make some MAJOR changes? And, NO my friend, that does not have anything to do with promoting the outdated form of government that you call COMMUNISM.
America was never going to go bankrupt in August or October. It was a scare tactic used by Obama to force people to do as they were told. So, what are you specifically proposing as MAJOR changes in America?
You are probably, right. All the talk of "terrorism" and "economic crisis"... in addition to the stock market going up and down 200 points every other day... it's all just a confusion tactic to keep Americans from noticing the truth. What do they call it, "spin"? I am for ending the Federal Reserve. And I am for telling all Congressmen and Senators that it is time for them to go home. We don't need them anymore. We need to end the Democratic Party and the Republican Party and start over. They have proven themselves USELESS. I have stated this openly in my blog nomorerepublicansnomoredemocrats.blogspot.com.
Did you know that USSR had not any unemployed? Reaaly. When you graduated from the University, goverment offers job to you.
Also you have free medicine, free education, free hight education, free apartaments... Really, you just need to work and GOVERMENT WILL GIVE TO YOU FREE APARTAMENTS BY FREE!
I've visited Moscow and China both. Although I mentioned earlier that the word COMMUNIST is actually an out-dated term, I believe these countries have evolved into what I call a Socialist-Free Enterprise System. They have companies/corporations and the the People engage in purchasing goods and services of their own choosing. In Shanghai, for example, there are just as many shopping malls and coffee shops as there are in New York City. So, what we have here is a new evolution, from an old Communism, that is now outperforming the United States of America in the eyes of its own People. So, your point is well taken.
Communism is just simply not a system that will EVER work with humans...
There is one place that communism/socialism works - in families. I think that's why young people are so susceptible to this garbage. The nanny state just picks up where mommy & daddy left off, and undermines any attempt at autonomy or self reliance.
Yeah but it could work with robots.
lol.
Trying to set a maximum wage is par with communism. So those supporting it want us to be more communist.
Supporting a maximum wage is not the same as communism.
So government regulations on wages isn't the same? Actually, it is quite frankly. It would be opening up other ways to control money. Say if we were in some kind of money crisis, the government could step in and lower wages for a time if they could "prove" it would "help" our economy. That's checkmate.
Well currently we're "checkmate" with the worst form of capitalism, so even if a backdoor to communism were opened, it wouldn't be much more than a horizontal move.
Yeah sociology is completely wrong, money is the only motivator for people. Forget all the studies proving otherwise.
What do you call the mouse shadow on the second moon?
About government systems:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/systems-judgments-labels-and-how-they-affect-our-l/
all forms of government get corrupted in the same way no matter what the idealist philosophy... there is no system that will remain perfect... greedy control freaks will not change under a different system... it is up to the rest of us to stand up for ourselves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVL05HqFqIY
Would you be will to have 49% of your companies owned directly by the individual employees that work within them? That would grow the middle class and increase demand. make labor unions obsolete. It would also align the interest or nearly everyone against big government high tax socialism. Bank could issue loan to the individual employees. 4.9% of stock per year to be sold the transition would take 10 years. The federal reserve created 3 trillion recently and loaned it to banks. the bank are not loaning it out. Here is a suggestion for this newly created money that will actually stimulate the economy and lead to a true ownership society.
lol, no.
Lets see, changing economical tyranny on part of the Corporations for economical tyranny on part of a centralized government that decides to divide the cake.
How about: None of the above.
We do not need to change our economical system. We need to change the way that is rigged. Let the banks fail, just as any citizen. Remove the FED and tax the imports. Tax properties that are not being used to twice of the properties that are being used. That will force the banks to sell them or rent them. Instead of holding to them to keep the price artificially high. Too big to fail? Too big to exist. Banks make their own decisions and have no problem when kicking a family out of their house. Why then should they be bail out?
"Millions of workers are unemployed, underemployed, or insecure in their jobs, even during economic upswings and periods of 'recovery' from recessions. Most workers experience long years of stagnant and declining real wages, while health and education costs soar. Many workers are forced to work second and third jobs to make ends meet. Most workers now average four different occupations during their lifetime, many involuntarily moved from job to job and career to career. Often, retirement-age workers are forced to continue working just to provide health care for themselves and their families. Millions of people continuously live below the poverty level; many suffer homelessness and hunger. Public and private programs to alleviate poverty and hunger do not reach everyone, and are inadequate even for those they do reach. With capitalist globalization, jobs move from place to place as capitalists export factories and even entire industries to other countries in a relentless search for the lowest wages." The Communist Party of the United States of America
Don't we want everyone to share in everything? Once we are rid of the corporations we can all make our own clothes, grow our own food and walk or bycycle everywhere. We can form a co-op to run the Internet and we won't need burn things to make electricity, we'll just do without it. We can take care of all that ourselves. Wtihout the stinking pigs we can all settle any disputes ourselves. It's f*ing heaven man.
You're joking right? How will you power the internet without electricity? How will hundreds of millions of people basically raised in a modern society suddenly learn to feed themselves when they have no idea how hard life really is in the "utopia" you desire? If this flash mob is to serve as a model of self-governance that would mean no leaders, no structure to society, just chaos and no decisions ever being made. The whole cannot ignore the one. Therefore there can be no harmony in an absolute democracy.
It's all about wall street greed and not about overthrowing society. Freedom is not limitless. There are practical and moral lines, basic needs and interest of others and of our communities which you can not just simply discard out of self interest; for they are not just 'game rules': We do not live in a virtual world, we are real people, and there are real children living on the streets, dying out there, in the US, for no justifiable or other reason but the shere lack of proper health care and good housing. Life is not a movie or soap or competetion. It's all too real, and the thing now is, it's draining the light and lifeblood out of peoples hearts. It is also about corporate interest having gained way too much influence over politics through the media they own, through the donations they throw at candidates, which for them is profitable business to get their tax breaks, the majority can't ever compete with. Because they simply have not the money to spare, they need it for food and many are about to lose their homes if not already evicted. And these are pensioners as well, that worked long and hard all their lives. And it is also the amassed wealth which is clodding up the financial system, this is a classic economical problem, and the solution is not redistibution, but making core changes to let money once again do it's primary function: as a trade asset, a means to exchange goods for services, labour for food, etc.. It seems now it is a primitive means to measure status, the gameshow of power, to take as much of it out of rotation, to serve one self at the expence of family, society and community. Finaly, in this way, the financial system of 'making money with money' which is was never intended for, is impossible to maintain.
"Freedom is not limitless" Sounds like your afraid friend.
No I'm not, Karl. I'm full of hope. I am not a acting the victim's part here. I am very powerful because I do not depend on false values.
...and you have a mentat named Piter De Vries.
People don't 'have' people. But what's a mentat anyway? You mean the tv guy?
Rich people have people. They're always saying "Have your people call my people."
This is the most wealthy country on earth. There is poverty. There is sadness. Jeffrey lives in Wisconsin and is rich. Tabitha lives in the Bronx and is poor. Jeffrey has never met Tabitha. It is not Jeffrey's fault that Tabitha is poor, and Jeffrey is under no obligation to Tabitha.
Maybe they could get together through Facebook?
sorry, no, we will not support communism, and we are not interested in your trolling.
This is completely incorrect. We are not supporting communism. We are not trying to completely tear down the government system we have in place that would be insane. We simply need to take an unbiased approach to educate ourselves as voters and analyze why our country is in the mess that its in. Why did the economy fail? It wasn't just because corporations have lots of money. However I am sick of big business crushing the middle class. It needs to stop. Let us take this protest as an opportunity to educate ourselves so we can wisely take the next step in fixing our country regardless of whether you are democrat or republican or independent. If you just don't give a fuck then don't vote this next election.
The economy is broken? So we're screwed over like Greece? And who spends more money than the $200 billion dollars we take in each month? Who has more debt to his name and failed policies since 2008 than the previous two presidents?
Give ya a hint...It rhymes with 'bama.
The plain and simple reason we are in the mess that we are in is because of who you vote for. This has been going on for years! You people continue to vote for morons like Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Weiner, Durban, and then you complain? Carter? Kennedy (Ted), Hillary? Clinton? Schumer and you complain? Big business is not crushing the middle class the govt is.
Bush, Bush, Reagan, Nixon... it's almost as if every president since the founding fathers was a moron tool of the corporations.
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs." - Thomas Jefferson
Don't worry, we're not coming for your stash. (It's obvious you have been smoking too much.) http://sibob.org/wordpress/
Communism is not the way.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/708507790/protest-to-prosperity-occupy-wall-street-pamphlet
Could be if we just called it Democracy.
sorry you are misinformed. corporations dont make anything we use. individuals do. educate yourself. learn to create.
Better tr0llz please!!!!1231!
Did you know that USSR had not any unemployed? Really. When you graduated from the University, goverment offers job to you.
Also you have free medicine, free education, free hight education, free apartaments... Really, you just need to work and GOVERMENT WILL GIVE TO YOU FREE APARTAMENTS BY FREE!
Did you know that communist countries own their people like slaves? Cradle to grave you are always the property of the regime. No personal rights or freedoms. No ownership of anything. Everyone is brainwashed to serve the public and the public will serve them in kind. The government tells you where work is needed. They tell you what you will do and where you will do it. They move people out of homes and into other homes when it suits their needs or wants. People to them are just pieces in their great machine. That is the sort of life you want? Then move there because the old communist Russia is on the comeback. They'll be taking over the world any day now.
Things in life that are free: Air, day and night, weather, and now your self-worth.
Hey go spend some time in China and see if you really want a Communist state! This protest or even this blog could only happen in a free Democracy and we need to cherish this freedom!
China have red flag, but China have not communism.
China have now capitalism. Republicans bought China. That why China flag red kemo sabe.
Then again...if we lived under communism, you'd be in jail or a coal mine by now. Those commies really have quite a track record with dissenters
No. The number of prisoners in the U.S. much more than in the USSR. And it's fact.
None of this prisons is like the Gulag, and no one is imprisoned in the US without due process, or is a political prisoner.
You wanna say, that USA have not political prisoners?
Imprisoning terrorists committing acts of war without uniform or flag is not the same as imprisoning a nations own citizens for words spoken in dissent. Even those In Guantanimo are not starved or forced into slave labor.
SOLYNDRAGATE: Huge Email Dump Implicates Obama And Rahm In Bankruptcy Scandal
http://www.businessinsider.com/solyndra-email-dump-implicates-obama-rahm-emanuel-treasury-illegal-bankruptcy-fundraiser-2011-10
Um, Norway has the highest standard of living.
And their immigration lines are huge! That's why I got a plan to tunnel in from Sweden. I gotta have some of that Gravlax.
Esposito, I love it. You have no idea how I have been trying to sneak into Norway to get some of that standard of living.
Trollallujah! :D
Trollist! Besides I'm a Goblin thank you.
Couldn't have said it better myself. This is a troll thread.
Your sarcasm aside, I find it disingenuous that you think we have the highest standard of living and the best economy in the world. If that were true, how come the middle class is fast disappearing? How come all of these people are so disenfranchised and angry? How many people do you know that have been foreclosed on? Personally I have at least 6 or 7 good friends who have lost their houses, through no fault of their own (i.e., they lost their job, which was their lifeline). I'm originally from Michigan, and I can tell you - it's an economic wasteland.
Stop obscuring the real issue - corporatism. I agree with you that we should not be 'taxing the rich', but if you are serious about change, sarcasm is not helpfl.
mgiddin1. Regarding the foreclosures. So let me understand this....so, a lender lends money so that someone can purchase a home. The borrower runs into tough times and tells the lender..."hey, I lost my job, and I can't make my payments anymore". So the lender says..........hey, I understand, just don't worry about that, you just don't have to pay that money back.
Come on, get an ounce of intelligence. Where is the lender supposed to get the money to replace the money that they just lost by forgiving a loan? Lenders are NOT social agencies. Get it?
They're not? What about Fannie and Freddy? Easy, we'll just strap the losses on the backs of foreseeable generations of the U.S. taxpayer.
And furthermore, allow corporations to ship manufacturing jobs overseas (e.g., Government Motors) then bail them out on our dime, and have them make a product noone wants (the Volt). Brilliant.
When you ship all these jobs overseas, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the middle class is going to lose their homes. Do you know how many jobs were lost when Fisher Body closed down in Lansing, Michigan? More than 40,000. Do you know why Flint, Michigan was recently ranked as the most violent city in the country? It used to be a middle class GM town until their plant shut down, too.
This isn't about people whining and crying, being lazy, or just being irresponsible.
When you make it a policy of the government to secure loans for anyone to get a house (including the irresponsible, the jobless - through 'liar loans') who pays for it? The taxpayers, and the middle class who was doing the right thing - trying to hang on to their jobs, feed their kids, and pay their bills.
We didn't allow them to ship jobs overseas, we drove them to ship jobs overseas or they would go out of business. Over regulation, so called "free" tread agreements and high taxes. If you allow free trade with Mexico which has few environmental and worker safety laws how is a US manufacture going to compete. NAFTA has to be repealed. If clean air and clean water are important than we must impose environmental and safety parity tariffs on all countries that don't have similar laws to level the playing field.
NAFTA was no thanks to Clinton, BTW.
If things are manufactured overseas, then the costs for importing them (i.e., tariffs) should be higher.
Also - let me get this straight - so, we took over GM after they had closed a ton of plants in the U.S., bailed them out, and they proceeded to build a huge plant in China? We're not allowing these guys to ship jobs overseas? What??
Actually, via the new labor contracts just signed they are bringing new jobs to the US at the second tier wages. Also paying bonuses as opposed to raising wages. A more flexible pay program to try to maintain wage parity with competitors. Also via these same negotiations Ford is doing the same things and they didn't receive a bailout. Maybe inflationary costs affecting China might bode well for American labor.
China is kind of funny, if you want to sell your product in China they make you manufacture it there. No factory no sale. So why doesn't our government do the same thing. If they want to sell there cheap DVD players over here we should make them build their factory here, simple as that. Oh, we never should have bailed out GM. We should have let GM go bankrupt. That does not mean that they go out of business. The only thing the bailout did for GM was to keep the union workers from taking the haircut they would have had to take in bankruptcy. That bailout was by, for and about saving the unions.
Saving GM didn't just save the unions, it saved suppliers and the ancillary businesses that the employees of those firms support. This is directly or indirectly 1.5 – 3 million jobs. Anything from assembly, procurement of resources, to the local grocery stores that service these people. The boon from spending multiplication, especially of middle income jobs that tend to spend a significant percent of their income versus saving, can be reversed and cause deflationary multiplication. Also the provision for allowing union jobs to hire at $15.50 an hour versus the traditional 20 -30s is significant for creating parity between labor costs and employing in the US again. Yes, saving GM fosters Moral Hazard but the domino effect could have brought on a Depression greater than the previous one.
"Yes, saving GM fosters Moral Hazard but the domino effect could have brought on a Depression greater than the previous one."
In a word Bulls--t. What makes you think that GM filling a true bankruptcy would have meant closing the doors and selling everything in sight? They would have reorganized and forced the unions to take a true haircut. But what did happen is the unions gave up very little, they are still over paid and under worked, and the same management team that ran GM into the ground is still running the company. And what if they did close down and sell off, so what. That is what is supposed to happen when a company is poorly run. Then when they sell off other, well managed companies come in buy up the assets and make better use of them. How do we know that BMW or Hyundai wouldn't have come in and bought the GM plants and started producing their own cars. As far as I'm concerned too big to fail is too big to exist.
Timing is everything. In a normal financial and economic scenario: I would agree Chapter 11 would have been the route of choice, if they failed they failed. In a financial crisis, the availability to credit is hindered, potentially putting a company that would have been available for chapter 11 into 7. Generally, I would agree that too big to fail is too big to exist. I think we can agree that putting GM, Chrysler into 7 firing their workers and forcing suppliers into 7 bankruptcy because of the above financial conditions would have caused a greater economic problem than was needed at the time. The potential loss of 1.5 to 3 million jobs on top of losses at the time during the recession would have had grave consequences. Most people will say the market will correct it, but no one ever talks about how long that will take. A market correction isn't instantaneous and if a great depression would have occurred, it is uncertain how long it would have taken to recover from. Imagine more foreclosures, more bank failures because we decided we didn't want to save these guys.
In a TRUE free market system the failure of GM, even as big as it is, would have caused only a little hicup in the market as a whole. In our totally f--k'd up and rigged system that call is much harder to make. You may not agree but IMHO if we do not do something drastic in the very near future (12-18 months) we are going to go through the worst times that this nation has ever known. If we somehow find the political will to make some very tough choices to do the right thing to fix this mess we will still have to go through some bad times but it should be short lived.
I can't say I agree with the speed of correcting mechanisms because no gov't for some reason ever wants to try this theory. (Price and Wage stickiness also cause this to be a problem as well). Your right about tough choices but because everyone wasn't paying attention during the good times we allowed the situation to come to this. The culpability is pervasive but really us, ordinary citizens weren't vanguards of our interests. As long we were making money we didn't ask questions until the buck stopped per se.
I think because protectionism or isolationism became a dirty word.
Look either our elected representatives are incompetent, or this is intentional.
You are sending a very mixed message. You start out by saying "stop obscuring the real issue-corporatism". That is what I was responding to. But later you talk sense when you say "when you make it a policy of the government to secure loans for anyone..." Yes, it was the federal government that was the root cause of this mess. I get angry when people say it is "corporatism", when it was not. I'm glad you see how the feds started this. And I agree they were the root cause. I just wish you wouldn't smear the private sector with what government did. Chris Dodd, Barney Frank and their ilk are the ones who bought millions of votes with easy mortgages. They defended what they did right up to the Fannie and Freddie bankruptcies.
Well, perhaps I should clarify. Corporatism is a huge problem, but who is the real culprit? I agree with you that it is the federal government. We have the biggest, most powerful centralized government in the human history, yet we keep going to it for solutions. Things keep getting worse, yet I hear people say, "We can reform those agencies! We need to take care of everyone!" It seems to be a rehash of the same failed socialist policies, over and over. And how come no one is shouting about ending these wars? Because whereas the corporations are profiting from the wars, who is their biggest buyer? What are we exporting? War? Where are the peaceniks now? Hell, I consider myself to be a peacenik, but that's because I can see what a failure war is, and how it is destroying our country.
Yes, sometimes I do send a mixed message. It's difficult to tease out because the whole system is broken. The reason why I think it is important to keep corporatism as one of the focus issues is because so many on this forum keep saying that capitalism is the problem. The only time we had true capitalism was probably during colonial times. Pundits like Michael Moore are lying when they say capitalism is the culprit. I don't see him giving his profits back from his movies.
I believe you and I are closer than we thought. However, I disagree with your link of corporatism and the wars. Only a very few companies depend on the war effort for revenue. The vast majority of businesses get no revenue, but yet have to survive in an economy that is supporting the war effort instead of buying their products. Even the accusation of Halliburton be in bed with the federal government was bogus. If the real culprit is the federal government, then take your aim at the government.
It may be a few companies, but those companies are powerful, nevertheless. How about Northrup-Grumman? They employ plenty of folks in my neighborhood. And never forget that the banks profit off of both sides of any war. It has always been so, and it always will be.
We are at war with 7 countries! It is a failure, yet we are piling in more and more.
Come on, this "corporate America is profiting off the wars" is a hoax. Of course the supplies of goods and services make money. They should. But the percent total corporate revenues that come from the DOD is small. Nothing to build into some gigantic conspiracy. And Northrup-Grumman employs a lot of people in your neighborhood? If you don't like them, then send those jobs to this neighborhood. And Northrup isn't even a huge company, 72nd in the Fortune 500. And, are you saying the banks perpetuate war for profit? Really? Geez.
Here's a call to investors to throw their money behind military contractors for profit: http://www.investingdaily.com/id/17191/how-to-profit-from-the-war-in-afghanistan-military-contractors-.html
First of all, I think you should be careful reading a website with a name so deceptively close to a legitimate publication...."Investing Daily" is NOT "Investors Business Daily".
That article, which I'm kind of embarrassed to have read, doesn't change how small DOD revenues are to corporate America. Also, I will suggest that no one takes investing advice from a website with such hyped up writing. I smell the distinct odor of snake oil.
Knowledg, the private sector is not without sin. Yeah they got pushed into lowering standards but they also took advantage of the situation by securitizing all those bad loans into CDO's and MBS's that they knew were used dog food and selling them with as "AAA" investments with the collusion of the rating agency's. Every big bank did it and they are now getting sued because of it. Some, hopefully all, of the big five will be bankrupted because of it.
And Barny Frank, Chris Dodd and all the rest go merrily along with their lucrative lives.
A certain amount of levity does no harm. Some people are frustrated with the apparent endless recession, immense loss of jobs, Obama's never failing effort to keep the American people in the dumps (keeping them unemployed, sabotaging their morale, making sure they are haevily reliant on welfare programs, etc), and constantly pitting one group of people against another group of people. Class warfare is no better than the race baiting also used to pit one group of people against another group of people. The Government that we currently have is not what America had on its founding. It is no longer reigned in by our national constitution. It behaves like a brat. Whines, fusses, and throws a tantrum to get its own way. Then takes the platinum credit card to spend money like it were toilet paper...which essentially turns our money into the same thing. Wads of paper to wipe the shit off your ass.
I see no good that can come of this so-called grassroots protest against people who have money. Why is it so wrong for someone to earn money, or save it, or create the jobs we depend on for the most part? People who lost their homes...Many people were allowed to take out loans they could never afford. So it is no wonder that the problem caused by the Democrats, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae would finally implode and take millions of people down with them.
Why is the middle class fast disappearing? First define what is the middle class. Are they getting wealthier or poorer? How much money does a person need to be classified as poor, "middle class", or "wealthy"? The disenfranchised are usually college students who spent their lives be educated in public schools. They then went on to colleges or universities that continue to spoon feed them socialist, marxist, and communist ideals. It is no wonder these people are marching in the streets and creating a ruckus over a hot button issue. I lost my job too. I made a better life for myself afterward. It gave me the freedom to change my circumstances for the better. So because 6 or 7 of your friends have lost their homes because they lost their jobs that is why you are protesting the American way of life?
Okay.
Obama is part of the machine, but he is not the bogeyman you make him out to be. The so-called liberals, communists, leftists, - get it through your head that they are the Pepsi version to the right-wing Coke corporate branding machine.
The left-right paradigm is perpetuated for the purpose of dividing people, making them fight over issues that are not real, and for making them think they have a choice.
Yes the politicans take advantage of the left vs right thing but... The left vs right thing is very real. Or should I say the freedom vs socialism thing is very real.
To quote Bsfootprint from "The Market-ticker" forum "How can I possibly align myself with someone (or a mob) who loudly demands free education, free health care, expanded social welfare, universal forgiveness of debt, ad nauseum? From the libertarian/free marketer's viewpoint (and in reality), such desires can only be satisfied by taking other people's property by force."
As a libertarian I always have to come down on the side of more freedom. Which includes, the freedom to keep that for which you worked.
Damn right, excuse my language. I don't want free government education (i.e., indoctrination), I don't want healthcare, because it's really sick care. For health care, you have to grow your own as much as you can, and eat real food.
I can never understand why liberals have so much faith in the government. I have almost zero faith in the government. I'd rather do it myself. I have chickens, I grow food, I can, I'm going to homeschool my kids when the time comes. I want the government 'the hell off my prop-tee!"
mgiddin1 +1
: ) and yes, I have guns.
So who is Seven-Up?
The communists.
We did it to ourselves. We bought into consumer lifestyle. We bought more house than we needed because of easy credit (no money down, low teaser rate) and we believed the lie that the value of our homes would always go up. So, we took out HELOC's and spent like no tomorrow. So when our home value did fall we were underwater and couldn't even sell it to get out from under.
The government was even worse. To get reelected they promised us more and more "free" shit. And instead of raising taxes to pay for all the free shit (which would have gotten them unelected) they just borrowed the money from China. Then the tree huggers made us pass laws for clean air and clean water that added to the expense of starting and keeping factories open. Then they started "free" trade and shipped even more manufacturing jobs overseas, remember that giant sucking sound. Now here we are trillions in debt and no jobs standing around with our thumbs up our ass wondering what happened. We committed suicide.
Yes, I agree. If we were getting ourselves in over our heads with easy credit and predatory loans, the government was borrowing on steroids.
The only way is to reboot for the debt. True default. None of this refinancing crap by international criminal banks. We give up the 'full faith and credit' of the U.S. government, at least for a few years. Iceland did it (yes, yes- - I know they're a tiny country and don't have the reserve currency).
Defaulting on the debt means no one will lend us any more money which means that we will have to live within our means. Which in turn means that we will have a much smaller government or much higher taxes.
If you have looked at any of the projection graphs for the debt versus revenue, the truth is they can't raise taxes high enough to ever pay for the debt. Something like 30% of our payments are on INTEREST alone. What will happen when Bernanke can't keep a lid on interest rates - which will skyrocket once the countries holding U.S. $ figure out that we're never going to pay it back, and they have a viable exit strategy (e.g., SDR's, the Bancor, ??) The graphs aren't in a straight line - they are actually exponential, and that is assuming we stay at a steady rate of growth. That's why I believe people who say this is truly generational warfare, because if they collected the amount of taxes needed, the economy would come to a grinding halt (not just ours, the whole globe), and there wouldn't be enough production to pay it off, EVER. If we take the higher taxes route, we impoverish our children for generations to come.
Sometimes I think the government is well aware of this - and this huge military buildup and run-up of the debt is like the movie Leaving Las Vegas - on one final drunken binge until it's all over. There are a growing number of people who think this is intentional financial implosion so that Americans will beg for a North American Union, paving the way for a New World Order. Sigh.
The only answer is much smaller government. We are broke! We have made too many promises! We have bought cheap trinkets from China for too long without producing anything worthwhile in return!
Dismantle the machine! Tear it to the ground! The war machine, the government machine, the fake money machine! It's killing us, and the world to boot! Sorry, I get carried away...
I agree with you 100%. Every person in the OWS movement needs to read your post. Have you ever visited the Market Ticker Blog by Karl Denninger?
Thank you. No, I read the Daily Crux, Weiss Financial Report, ZeroHedge.com, and several others. I think a lot of the arguments here are misinformed in terms of real finance. If you have ever had money in the stock market (as a little guy) and have read the writing on the wall, then pretty much you'd better brace for impact. The financial news out of sites that are telling the truth is NOT good. I'm watching the situation in Europe very closely, because part of me thinks that once Germany pulls the plug, the Euro falls, and that is the domino that will cause the destruction of our whole house of cards in a matter of weeks. Not everyone in the financial sector agrees with that viewpoint, but like I said, the ones telling the truth believe it, and they're not trying to blow smoke up people's behinds, like the government is and mainstream financial news sites. I think most people don't understand how close we are to a complete breakdown in our currency and the system; they don't understand economics because it's not taught correctly, we have created so many intentionally complex instruments (e.g. derivatives), and also because in many ways we have been so advantaged for so many years owing to the dollar being the reserve currency, but ofcourse on debt and leveraging.
Again I agree with you 100% I guess great minds think alike. Yes, most people in this country have no clue how close we are to the the brink of the worst times that this country has ever known. I don't know if we have already passed the point of no return or not but either way it's going to be a bumpy ride for the next 5 to 10 years. If we have passed the point of no return than life as most Americans have come to know it will never be the same. Life will go on but everything will be much more local and I can even see the break up of this country into three or more smaller pieces.
Yes, I agree. I read articles on SHTFplan but most of my news is from Activist Post, which I think is the best general altnews site.
I don't trust anybody anymore.
BTW, I posted that post in its own thread under "why taxes are NOT the answer"
Did you ever think the real reason for the middle class disappearing? Alien abductions. Watch the X-Files. It's all there.
No, that's the cows out west. Then by the time they get dropped out of the sky again, their blood is drained and their bodies have weird cuts on them.
wrong argument. capitalism vs communism is sooooo last century. this is a new movement. don't be afraid.
as for corporations? they don't need you to stick up for them. we buy their products and that should be enough. corporations do not need to be worshiped as gods.
Neil, you touched on our most important vote - spending dollars. Elections are no more than 'sElections', aided by rigged electronic voting machines.
One way for us to hit corporations is by hitting their pocketbook - buy local, take your money out of BofA, put it in a credit union, support local farms and CSA's, stop going to Walmart.
Spend your money where you like? Vote with your wallet? Have you been listening to Libertarians like Clark Howard?
Living in Maryland I know all about rigged elections and I would have to agree with the rest of your statement.
No kidding - I went to the 'election judge' training for Baltimore City elections in 2010 - what a joke. I bowed out from being a judge because I saw it was nothing more than us setting up these Diebold machines, which came from the city's 'election board', where they had been 'set up and programmed'. Hmmm. After seeing a demo in which a guy was able to take a flash drive and literally hack into one of those very machines within seconds, I thought - what a crock! Our elections are a total scam.
How do you buy local when most goods are produced in communist or socialist countries like China? Towels, clothes, sheets, utensils, plates & bowls, furniture, electronics, building materials (for homes, businesses, and our roads network), etc. Boycotting big box stores that sell these items isn't the only solution. You should also write letters, not emails, to the companies whose business practices you disagree with. Explain to them why you are not buying from them. With enough physical letters and actual loss of sales they might be willing to support our own countrymen like in the good old days....if there was such a thing.
Because we've outsourced almost all manufacturing, I agree with you - it is damn near impossible. In some areas of commerce though (e.g, food) we can still vote with dollars. Also you can buy off smaller companies on the internet, which undercuts the corporations, but then they're not local... Admittedly, it is only part of the solution.
What skills do the protesters possess? Are they able to set up their own services and businesses that can establish a revolution by example? Not relying on Big Brother (government) to solve all their problems? For all the people that are whining about how they got stuck with a big college bill, or those who dislike how people and companies handle their money, especially in light of millions of Americans out-of-work and/or their homes...why not take the time to work together to create the services, goods, and practice what they preach? If they can show that communism is a self-sustaining system of self-governance then more people might be encouraged to live and trade among them. It would have to be a community set apart from America though. Perhaps a man-made or natural island they can purchase or lease.
Doesn't history show that socialism and communism fails to live up to its ideals? It failed the Russians big time, the Chinese are enslaved.
Not even Apple?
Then why are you protesting corporations? You just stuck up for them yourself. You buy their products. They use the money from the sale of their products to run their companies, pay their employees, make more goods or services we want, need, or desire, invest in new products and services, give away their monies to their local communities through a variety of programs and/or charities, and have the nerve to turn a profit or keep what is left for themselves?! Outrageous right?
They take advantage of our: Publicly funded roads Publicly funded police forces Publicly funded military Publicly funded politicians Publicly funded school systems that their employees went through Publicly funded water supplies that they take advantage of
I can go on... but the point is, if they want to use nothing that is publicly subsidized... they can go buy their own roads, military, police, schools, and then try to convince people to go through that system instead...
But hey, I have a decent job and went through the public education system... what do I know?
How many politicians have made millions of dollars from public pay?
Outside of the president, not too many.
Many of them become wealthy after fulfilling particular promises to corporations. A few of the good ones remain good until they get old and realize... they need money when they get into retirement... so they lose interest in the people.
I never did hear what president Obama did with the 100+ million dollars he got from his 2008 campaign. Do you know if he pocketed it or did he spread it around like he has been doing with taxpayer monies?
Honestly not a fan of Obama. Too weak for me.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/expend.php?cid=N00009638
There you go.
Who do you favor most for the next presidential election?
I wish there were more choices out there. All I hear about are the Republicans versus Obama.
Ron Paul!!!
Honestly... Never a republican... and if Obama runs... I'll just do a write in.
Don't mean to start anything just want to know how you feel about Ron Paul.
Ron Paul. Very honest. I like that. But... he is still too conservative.
Honestly, I would appreciate someone who would screw us over and think is doing the right thing as opposed to someone who says one thing and does something else.
Sadly... Ron Paul is a rare breed.
Too conservative, in what way?
Is your write-in choice a secret? nudge nudge
I'll probably just vote for a random friend who qualifies XD --- May be a throw away but I don't really care. Its better to exercise my vote than to not.
I might just write in, "Neither. New Elections."
I don't buy into the notion that people can throw their vote away. Nor do I let others do my thinking for me. I try to listen to or learn about different perspectives and then make up my own mind.
Sometimes, not always, all the options suck so you need a clean slate.
The only way to reset everything to a clean slate is to surrender America back to the natives who were brutally murdered and kicked off their own land. All the rest of y'all gots to go. I can stay of course, I'm Creek.
As a anglo saxon white blooded American, I have to gracefully disagree. You folks have been assimilated during a darker time in our history. :P
Who are "they" when you say "they" take advantage of these things?
Them.
You mean "them" from the movie about aliens posing as humans that can only be seen with special dark sunglasses? That was a pretty cool film. So we should be wary of aliens right? Not just the ones that enter America illegally?
Keep it down before 'they' hear you.