Forum Post: Commonalities and Tolerance
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 5, 2011, 9:48 p.m. EST by weepngwillo2
(277)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
One of the things that i have taken away from the forums at OWS, is that we need to remember that the 99% is so vastly diverse. We are not coming together because we agree on everything.....we are coming together because we have been unified by the corruption and abuse of our governmental system. we are coming together because we have tried through our individual votes, emails, protests, calls, in other words we have done all we can as individuals to show our officials that they are not and have not been acting in our best interests or being the voice of their constituents like they are bound by law to do. Do not look at your fellow Occupier and reach for the things that will bring division, of which there are so many, but look at those things that are common between you and then figure out how to share those commonalities with others that don't realize, they too are an Occupier, they too are the 99%.
We ARE the 99%!!!
We will occupy until every public office again serves the will of the many, not the few!!!
We will stand together and take our government back from the lobbyist and corporation intrusion to the democratic process!!!
We will see, in our lifetimes, a government that is really of the People, for the People and by the People!!!
these are good goals
and a good reminder
include everyone and find common ground first change what is common with many then try for what is popular with few. convene a constitutional congress just like they did the first time. Have OWS's from the whole country meet and re-write the constitution correctly and fairly and then present the new deceleration of human rights and a new bill of rights. Got all winter, have it ready by spring, now go and do
I think that is what we are working on with the 99% Declaration. I am signed up as a potential delegate for my district. I am working on being vocal from both the local and national stages. I honestly believe that this is our best shot at making the reforms necessary to keep this country free, and to make the changes the People have been crying out so long for. I think our biggest hurdle is to start people thinking outside of the box regarding the two party system we have in place. The issue is that the current parties are no longer relevent as they represent those things that are most wrong with our government.
So with this national convention, I assume it will be done in the same form as the GA's am I correct? Once that is done and the reforms you want to make are agreed upon, how do you see OWS going about achieving getting the reforms done?
I understand what you are saying about the current 2 party system... however at the moment that is what we have... and barring some coup it is what we will have when OWS gets a consensus on the reforms.... Is OWS willing to then confront Congress and get these reforms actually worked into law?
Do you see where I am coming from? Many of us can think outside of the box, but when confronted with reality we know that without either holding Congresses feet to the fire, or working within the current system the only other course we can see to obtain the reforms is replacing our current system..... Is that what OWS wants to see happen? And as this is a peaceful movement how is that going to be done? Because I am sure you realize that change isn't going to happen just because we all want it to.
From what I gather, the intention is to try to work with the legal and political structure set forth in our founding documents to achieve the reforms we are demanding, and begin to address the list of items the National Assembly finalizes in July.
Those in public office are effectively being put on official notice, that their constituencies are no longer willing to accept business as usual. That if these demands are not met within the 2012 election cycle, we are then prepared to start running for and taking over every public office in the 2014 and 2016 election cycles, all the way to the Oval Office.
This serves two purposes from where I stand. One is that it gives our elected officials the opportunity to take responsibility for their actions, remember why there position exists, and try to make the situation right. Two is that I believe that if we rush this movement to where we are trying to take offices as early as this election cycle, I think that it will be too hasty, not giving us enough time to gain the organization necessary to gain the popular vote in so many arenas.
We are talking about not just nullifying the two main parties, but possibly creating a new political arena. This kind of change is going to take time to take root in the hearts of the rest of the 99%. They have been convinced/duped into believing that their choices should be dictated to them, and that the current parties are the best solution. Changing that kind of entrenched belief system will take more than the handful of months we have between now and the 2012 election, but given time, that change IS possible.
I have little faith that the 1% will be able to curb their own habits and make the reforms we are demanding actually happen. For me the focus now should be on getting our potential delegates out in front of people, we should be having informational meetings for those that are curious, but nervous of being considered extreme and joining outright. We need to work on strengthening our organizational structure so we can be in a better position to provide assistance to those farther out in the field. We need to identify those people among us who seem to have a true understanding not just of our goals but what is at stake, and support them in using their eloquence and passion to reach out to those that are on the fence, and even to deliver messages of encouragement to boost morale within our ranks.
We must use the time the Declaration is offering wisely. We can't forget to reach out to those 99%ers that haven't woken up to the idea that the power for change lies in their own hands.
All just my opinion of course.
This is the problem I have...............
You explained yourself very well, and the step by step way you say it would be done..... Then, just when I'm thinking "Okay, now we are talking. There are steps being taken..." You blow it all sky high with the last sentence....
"All just my opinion of course"
So that tells me one of two things.... 1. You really aren't active in the OWS.... or 2. You are active in the movement but there still isn't any real "game plan"...
It seems no one in OWS can answer a very simple and straight forward question. "How is OWS planning to make these changes?"* It is extremely frustrating when there are many that may be eager to support OWS but won't until that one question is answered. And rightfully so, would you follow someone that wouldn't tell you where you were going or by which mode of transportation?
That is just the thing....I want to stand up for OWS, I want to think that their opinions and mine are shared. I have no way to measure that agreement and so I don't want to alienate someone else by saying I speak for them when they don't agree with me
If what I am saying reasonates with you take it and share it....please. The Declaration provides the vehicle, but now we have to find the driver(s). We do this by finding those people we feel best represents the ideals of the movment. I have always been told that OWS is a leaderless movement. There is no individual leader because everyone in the group is doing what they see as their best. To change this broken system.
Will it be a different movement with specific leadership? I think we need to change the perspective from which we view the question. Instead of "leadership" we need "voices" that people can trust represents the 99%. We still have to decide who those people are, and as much as I would like to believe I could be one of those voices, the truth of it must be born out by the majority.
Look I'm not asking for a "leader"..... I never even mentioned leadership... What I am asking for is an answer to a question from the whole of OWS , and that question is.l......... "HOW are we going to achieve these reforms?" A leader or even leadership isn't needed to answer that.
An opinion by someone might resonate with me but if that "opinion" isn't born out by facts and actions then it is useless. I am not going to pin my hopes and efforts on an opinion. I have read the Declaration of the OWS before, it is not a vehicle it is a statement. While it's list the grievances are good ones..... the declaration asserts nothing, except a call "Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone." The problem is that no solutions have ever been offered.
It is not a question of who is the leadership it is a question of can OWS give us and clear an concise statement of how the grievances in their Declarations are going to be addressed and resolved? As of yet no one has been able to answer that.
Sinead....thank-you so much for your words! And more....Thank-you for being a representative of the 99%.
Yes you! That's right! Little did you know, that all along, whilst you were looking for what the 99% had to say, in reality, we want YOU and EVERYONE to speak.
YOU ARE THE 99%!
More! You are an active member! You came here, you listened to another's viewpoint and you spoke. You became in that moment part of an overall collective, that is desperately trying to find solutions to a desperate world.
I understand the difficulty, in this chaos.... and I understand your questions and your points, of course!
The reason for it all is simple: There is no single reason to protest, there are simply too many to contemplate.
The solution? At this point who knows, at this point! Don't forget we are only 2 months in! That's why we were waiting for you, for you and everyone else that cares about our world......the 99%!
Btw.....lol....
This is what I say....
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf
Heres what some others have said (and where you can have yours)....
http://occupywallst.org/forum/im-here-to-listen-what-is-it-you-want-to-be-heard/#comment-464830
Heres something you could do about it.... right now....FREE! 2 SECONDS! EASY!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/something-that-you-can-do-right-now-from-where-you/
Look, as I said to a previous poster, we all know that things are not "okay" and many reforms need to be made. OWS is now only what, 10 days away from being 3 months old..... plenty of time to begin to hammer out what course of action to take to make those reforms. Perhaps I am too pragmatic but without something soon that says "THIS is what we are going to do to achieve ........" it will be hard to get many people to follow without a direction.....
Please do not take this as a statement against OWS it isn't...... I want to see them succeed..... I just need to know how OWS is going to succeed before I commit myself completely.
"Look, as I said to a previous poster, we all know that things are not "okay" and many reforms need to be made. OWS is now only what, 10 days away from being 3 months old..... plenty of time to begin to hammer out what course of action to take to make those reforms."
Check this video out...
http://www.dystopiafilm.com/
I think that's the best 'summary'....in terms of doco's, for highlighting the connectivity for the varying issues, although I do not necessarily agree with their answer....
Really that video highlights what I said before....there is no SINGLE reason that brought everyone here together, AND, EVERYONE is looking for that one single reason to be here.
Btw....I am here to push for the only thing that will solve everything....
World peace.
I think that's another issue too....because so many people have been brought here, for so many different reasons, and, all these people are passionate, pro-active people, ergo finding consensus, is difficult at best....esp when dealing with 'ultimate solutions', or 'final goals'....
"Perhaps I am too pragmatic but without something soon that says "THIS is what we are going to do to achieve ........" it will be hard to get many people to follow without a direction....."
-Many people have said this..... I do not know what to say, except, thnx for being here regardless! Would YOU support world peace, as the 'one thing'?
"Please do not take this as a statement against OWS it isn't...... I want to see them succeed..... I just need to know how OWS is going to succeed before I commit myself completely."
-I don't! And don't we all! The way to help the 99% succeed in this, or anything, is to help, just as you are (ie; inputing, pointing out concerns, etc)!.....
And I think your already commited...lol....welcome!
I am committed in as far as I will continue to support OWS in it's efforts, which I have done with donations of money to the NY OWC several times and and donations in supplies to my local OWS. However, at some point (and in the not too distant future) I, as well as others, will need to hear something concrete from OWS.
I believe most people are aware of the scope of our problems. And while we (I) support world peace and realize that if we had that things would be better... but just as we crawl before we walk, it is important to take on the smaller (if you can call the state of our country smaller, but I'm sure you know what I mean) things. As the 12 steppers say.... one day at a time.... We must solve one issue at a time, the biggest one of those "small things" is the corruption on Wall St and our Congress. That alone will open avenues making it much easier to fix other things.
I really do look forward to the day I can ask the question, Now that we know what needs to be fixed, what are we going to do to fix it? and actually get an answer.
I have a book for you.....
Enjoy....
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf
Btw....See!....we (you and I)....can't even agree on world peace, lol! This is the problem....
Thanks, I began reading that earlier..... will continue and finish it...
And yes we do agree......
Best wishes :)
So is it correct to refer to them as DGAs, District General Assemblies?
they represent the federal reserve bank a private bank! not us. Both partys are owned by the same bank that owns the fed reserve bank
Please help spread this message between anyone who will listen. If we don't find a way to unify despite our individual differences, we will not be able to keep the movement ...well...moving.
their plan divide and keep under thumb the more we group up the worse for them
There is no downside risk to holding the NGA, except if you are in the 1% of 'facilitators' at the NYCGA, the people who tore down the working group on the 99% Declaration pages off this 'official' website after the working group was endorsed by the NYCGA in public on October 15th. I'm sorry to have to keep saying this but the NYCGA casts suspicion on themselves, which could be easily dispelled by simply endorsing the 99% Declaration. Only in this way can everyone be confident in the integrity of the NYCGA.
Moreover, the endorsement would have every media outlet in the world showing up to find out what this NGA is all about. Think about it, it's the RepubliCrats worst nightmare, a watchdog WITH TEETH!
I do support OWS and the goals they have established, but I feel I must do so with one eye to the future. Not the tomorrow future or the next spring future, but the ten years from now, a hundred years from now future that I am looking towards.
As much respect as I have for the OWS movement, I can not see them achieving the vastness of their goals using only their current tactics. I also do not see why A. It seems as OWS and the Declaration are mutually exclusive, when they are not, and B why it is so hard to see them as two groups that are supporting each other to reach the same ends through different tctics.
I think we need to work had to stay goal oriented with this, and be supportive of movements that are alike in the final goal. The 99% will never agree on everything, we are too diverse and that is a good thing. We need to keep focusing on those things that we do hold in common, which I think are fairly well addressed by the Declaration.
Time is short. The NGA is 212 days away, the 2012 election less than a year away. The situation globally is looking more dire each day.
You believe that OWS and the Declaration are not mutually exclusive but the facts speak for themselves. The NYCGA endorsed the working group in public on October 15th then 'privately' removed, "excluded" the groups' pages from the "official" website. OWS believes that they ARE mutually exclusive.
If OWS was supporting the Declaration, they would simply publicly endorse it. Moreover, their failure to do so to date casts suspicion on themselves. The NYCGA is a very small percentage of the 99% movement, and is facilitated by a very small number of people, who were not ELECTED. Yet they publish 'vision statements' CLAIMING that 'we' are a leaderless / non political movement. Does "the emperor wear any clothes"?
The Revolution has a new theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P89PlNkk0eY&feature=related
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!
Well said! Thank-you!
I hope you are right.
Me too. The only thing left is to make it happen. Wishing won't work anymore, it will take direct action. The 99%Declaration goes a long day towards spelling out a long term workable strategy, one of the most well thought out and reasonable I have seen so far.
@ weepngwillo2 ... May I say you dealt with MVSN well. I, too, have had dialogue with MVSN and it has been civil. I also have observed MVSN is passionate and does not take well to a non-civil approach.
Where is this declaration?
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
They also have a group on yahoo which is where you would sign up to be a delegate, but a yahoo membership is required to access the group.
Thanks. And I'm sorry but this idea is a waste of time.
Why do you feel that way? And as a delegate you would be able to help bring it to it's final form. You could help make changes that make it more relevant to you/your constituents.
I am not looking to attack your position, just understand it and possibly share my opinion.
Because you are simply forming a third party to try to break the republicrat stranglehold on power. You won't win that way.
The framework of our government is sound, as are our foundations. It is not so much a third party, as much as it is giving people an option beyond Republican or Democrat. Changing such an ingrained belief structure as the two party system that we have been collectively, and seemingly willing, duped into believing is the best and only way is going to take a strategic and well organized effort......and time.
But IMO we as a people are too far gone for that. I truly wish you were right.
I have to keep hoping that the human spirit is not so beat down that we cannot rise up together against the abuse of our political and governmental institutions.
So do I. But in my belief until the present system's power is broken real change is not possible.
The Declaration seeks to break the cycle of corruption through banning the means of funding it. Look into it a little further...you may find more of your concerns are being addressed in a more direct and 'immediate' way than anything any of our 'politicians' have come close to doing after months of arguing and not listening to the People.