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Forum Post: College costs must come down, Student loans must be minimized, INCREASE PELL GRANTS!!

Posted 7 years ago on Feb. 14, 2013, 4:36 p.m. EST by repubsRtheprob (1209)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I am Not A Loan.

This must be a high priority effort. We must find new ways of cutting college costs, Increasing grants, Making college debt more affordable.





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[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

we must worship santorumism - college is not for everyone
the best educated vote D and we would not want that!

[-] 3 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 7 years ago

You hit the nail on the head. Another demographic trend that repubs have miscalculated.

It is just comical, & pathetic.

[-] 1 points by Nader (74) 7 years ago

A traditional 4-year college is not for everyone. There are things like trade schools and apprenticeships that are a lot better for some people than traditional college. One of the plumbers around town lives in a million dollar house and drives a 7-Series. He certainly did fine without college.

I think what is most important is that people acquire skills that make them marketable, regardless of whether it is college or not.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Free college in Arkansas?


Please sign the petition.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Defend education day!


Join us

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Easy solution to sequester and the vuts to education (& other job creating pgms that help the 99%)

Just repeal it.!!!!


[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

High rates for future students is unacceptable. Tell Obama


[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 7 years ago

Action Alert: Studentdebtcrises




Join and help the indentured servitude we have allowed banks to subject our young people to.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

"higher" education should be free for all who can pass enterence tests
that might include plumbing training or biotechnology.
We need citizens who can build our country

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Action alert: Tell your student debt story.


Join us in the fight make student loans fair and manageable.

[-] 0 points by Nader (74) 7 years ago

Do they only want student debt stories that end badly or would they want to here about my mostly positive experiences?

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Why don't you just give your story and see. Perhaps most will be good and they will be forced to say 'never mind'.

Truth is these days most are not good. Maybe if you listened to some you might understand.

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Support easing student loan interests


Agitate all pols to sign on.

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

Do you believe that a degree program / requirement should be only specific to the discipline or that other requirements should be included to give a better, more rounded education and foundation for the challenges one might find when entering the real world? Do you agree that most of the education you receive in school enables you to be ready for real training at a job, that it gives critical thinking and learning skills that make you valuable to a potential employer?

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Action Alert: Support our young people


Defend education day.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

What about this new story on Occupies efforts to promote free education.


Does this interest, or excite you enough to get beyond the meaningless personal attacks.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Get walmart & all corps out of school control!!


just take their taxes, we can decide how to spend it.

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

VQ Have you nothing to do but go back and dig up old conversations and then add some rah rah comment to bump the post of your other persona?

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I'm adding an update to the topic of this thread (School issues).

I figured you would be interested.

Is it possible for you to comment on the substance of the topic (schools) and not offer yet another tired, meaningless, personal attack.?

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

To understand the exploitation of our youth please watch the streaming play by conservatives & progressive college students.


[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Agitate for our leaders to impose bank abolishment of student debt for the working class.

This shows the seriousness of the problem.


That would be the best economic stimulus.

[-] 2 points by HCabret (-327) 7 years ago

Why wait?

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

No reason to!

[-] 0 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

VQ. If one can not afford the debt, one should not borrow. Do you realize what would happen if you just removed the outstanding debt? Do you have any idea where that money is from? It is from all of us. Would I get a refund on all my paid loans?

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

What would happen if we just removed outstanding debt? Tell me. Where is it from? Please educate me. And no you would not get a refund from your previous debt.

[-] 0 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

Of the approximate 1trillion in student loans, about 85% would have to be covered by the fedal government (taxpayers, "all of us"). The remainder from private lenders would have to be covered by savers, investors, pension funds, etc (again, "all of us"). We have everyone calling out that the sky is falling when the government is cutting spending by 85 billion. Imagine what would happen if suddenly the government is now short 850 billion of expected revenue?

Now I mentioned my "student loan" (paid many years ago) as a reference for all those who actually pay off their debt. How does the person feel if he just finishes worrying off his loans, working extra time etc, and suddenly everyone else is suddenly forgiven of their debt. Would they be happy or angry? Where is the fairness in that! Why would anyone even try to pay any debt, rather just wait until the debt is removed by some legislative action. So there is no reward for all those who do the right thing, but rewards for all the deadbeats? I can not support that.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Sounds like a good reason not to address the obscenity of overwhelming debt.. But it ain't!

And if a law was passed that says "no loans can be made with 29% interest (or any higher interest than 10%)" (Which we SHOULD pass)

Are we gonna say "gee many have had to pay that rate in the past, so they might be angry and it wouldn't be fair to them, I guess we can't pass it"

Sorry that is nonsensical logic.

The loans we FORCE our young people to incur is hurtful to the common good.

The effort must be made.

  • Start with the poorest borrowers,
  • cut the interest to zero,
  • apply previous interest paid to principle,
  • abolish just a portion of their debt,
  • allow for payment to be delayed,
  • provide for forgiveness through community service,
  • force banks (as punishment for crashing the world economy) to abolish any debt they hold without passing on or writing it off.
  • create a corp tax to cover a portion of the abolished debt.
  • and many other ways....

There are innumerable ways to absorb the cost. And the resulting cash in hand to the middle class will grow the economy. A great way to stimulate the economy.

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

VQ. First, your logic is off. No loans are FORCED on young people. Last time i checked, a person has to apply for a loan. The bank (or other) does not come to you and say: "you have to take this money and pay me back at a high interest rate". And who ever is paying 29% interest (credit card?) on a loan that went to college certainly graduated as dumb as they went in. Now, should there be loans with a high interest rate? Probably not, but what would be your suggested rate for a high risk borrower? I do believe that student loans should qualify for special consideration, such as very low interest rate, but with some considerations: community service or alternative options for principal reduction, some guarantee that the student will actuall pay the loan, and yes, a free period for the student to get a job, etc. I do support special consideration for the students with social-economic issues. I do not support forcing banks to just write off the debt. I do not support taxing corporations to cover the debt. I do support corporate or business partnerships in education, including more and better internship programs. Incentives or off sets, if legislated properly, would make this happen. Now the comment on those that pay and those that don't. Many do pay their loans, but what do we do to make sure that continues, rather than everyone claiming "I can't pay". Your proposing blanket debt forgiveness just because your angry at banks or whatever. You have to consider some fairness for those who act responsibly, otherwise you remove the incentive to be accountable for your actions.

A question: do you enjoy talking with yourself with repubsrtheproblem ?

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Loans ARE forced on us! We are told we must have college education in order to achieve the American dream, the cost is prohibitive and so those without the obscenely overpriced tuition are FORCED to take out loans.

And I am NOT VQ!. So you are wrong about that too. please stop calling me that.

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

No, loans are never forced. You freely enter into the contract. No one is forced to get a degree in 4 years. I went to day and night school for over 11 years. Now I will agree that some tuition is very high, but there are plenty of choices out there where the tuition costs are reasonable. One does not need a degree from an ivy school, or even elite private school to succeed. We disagree.

VQ. Inclusionman, imagine40, and repubsrtheproblem are all one and the same. Why would all of VQkag's old posts suddenly come bubbling up from the past? Answer: you have commented on them in multiple comments. Your fingerprints are all over each comment you write. It is quite easy to see from the writing style, tone, phrases, political position, word choice, etc. that all of these are the same person. You can deny it, but the truth is in your own words. Each ID has the same keyboard diarrhea.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

The whole system is setup to force us into college, the best schools are more money, and obcenely overpriced, the only way to afford it is to borrow.

The system forces us into a life of debt.

(Your continued pre occupation with non OWS issues like usernames and childish insults are pathetic. I AM inclusionman. Period. And I am NOT VQ, It is useless, meaningless to discuss that issue. I will freely discuss the issues that affect the 99% (like the posts I bump up!!) but not usernames, nor will I engage or encourage in immature bully tactic insults.)

[-] 0 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

VQ. Asking you to be honest is not an attack or bullying. What is pathetic is the lame attempt to hide behind all those IDs, bump your old posts, and converse with yourself. Everyone here knows it. You can not hide your writing style, tone, phrases, words, etc. Even your response above contains the standard VQ fingerprints. Now you can go ahead and deny and deny, but we all know what is really going on.

Now as far as discussing non OWS issues, that is calling the kettle black! LOL!

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

This whole comment is a non OWS issue.

I focus my efforts on issues that affect the 99%. VQ is an old, no longer used username. And therefore I am NOT VQ!!!!.

I am obviously inclusionman. I'm not trying to hide anything except my real name.

Are you dishonest for not giving your real name?. I don't care what name appears on a comment. I deal with the comment. And I keep MY comments to the issues that affect the 99%.

You can't discuss the issues that affect the 99% so you distract with unimportant nonsensical username issues.


This thread is about college costs. I support free college. You wanna talk about VQ because your position on college is weak and conforms to the corp 1% oligarchs plan to keep the 99% in indentured servitude.

[-] 0 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

VQ. You support everything free, I support personal responsibility and accountability. That is not a weak position. Anytime someone disagrees with you, they are automatically a 1% supporter, RW, etc. sigh, just the same old VQ response.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Well the banksters & the corp educrats support the debt slave college process our young people are subjected to.

You support that then embrace it. I support free college as a right just as.k-12 is. It WILL come as soon as we brush aside the corp shills that hold up the current process of indentured servitude..

I support making college free and a right just like

[-] 0 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 7 years ago

Have you noticed that the main source for "free college" is based on "the banksters & the corp educrats who support the debt slave college process.

That kind of thinking only comes from one source - Obama.

[-] 0 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 7 years ago

If you think in your mind that "we are told we must have a college education in order to achieve the American dream" you are out of your mind.

Didn't you have parents who taught you how to think for yourself or were you taught by the liberal school system?

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I learned from my mother and from experience that having a college degree provides better opportunities.

So you absolutely NEED a college degree to do well in America.

[-] 0 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 7 years ago

Sorry but I never received a college degree and I have been very successful through "self education" in improving my job skills.

And it didn't take 4 years of college - it took 15 to 20 years like many successful people have done not expecting to be successful after 4 years of college.

In addition to that because of improving my job skills through self education I have never been without a job - unlike a college degree where you limit yourself in your field of study.

I have many job options - so to say that "we need to go to college to be successful is bull.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

LOL. A little secret your experience does not represent thereality of our society.

Truth Is I also did not go to college and did very well in tech & exec mgmt. Retired at 41!

But our individual situations are irrelevant!! We MUST make sure our children go to college to give them the best opportunity in life.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Occupy supports the abolishment of student debt



Join us! Stop blaming the victim. Blame the criminal banksters

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Critical thinking is obviously absent and a major problem with American education (IMHO).

College education is a money making scam that MUST undergo massive reform. Many useless classes to keep cr totals/cost up, and valuable classes (eg: liberal arts) not mandatory.

Much reform is necessary, details are for for smarter people than me.

What do you think?

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

Lower education needs better concentration on the three "Rs". There is too much effort to teach too many things before the basics have been mastered. Too many students today do not have the fundamental building blocks in place in order to acquire / learn the critical skills required in today's job market.

I do not believe college is necessarily just a money making scam, yet I will agree that the costs have disproportionately risen with respect to everything else. One problem is that students are not ready for the opportunity that college gives them. They do not get the proper guidance on individual class or major choice (which adds to total cost and time). I do believe that all students should take courses that give them a well rounded education, but not at the cost. Maybe the cost structure should be changed. Minor courses at less cost, major courses at standard cost. Liberal arts courses (and others) are indeed necessary for critical thinking skills (something one realizes later in life when more mature).. You just have include the right ones that expose the student to subjects that require difficult choices based on moral and ethical issues. And all students should be required to take an ethics course.

Another issue is that some seem to believe that college education is a right. I do not agree with that. College education is a privilege that is earned. This is not to say that it should be denied by socio-economic reasons. Have you ever look at the entry and exit numbers by class year? There is large percentage that do not make it through 4 years of college, for a variety of reasons, but, IMO, mostly it is because they just were not mature, committed to or ready for the responsibility / work that a college education requires. These students, however, are the "cannon fodder" for supplying revenue to schools.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I avoid blaming the victim mostly. Students can improve their end of the effort but I lean towards the system, the teachers, the parents being mostly the blame.

I belive education is in fact a right, and an educated citizenry benefits society as a whole so all education is an investment.

I believe our students can absorb at least 2 years of bachelors degree learning within the 12 year free ed we currently privide. by simply imposing year round school and implementing new internet based education strategies. The remaining 2 years of BA should be eaily made available free with small increases in Pell grants (fr ta incr on corps).

I suppose elite private colleges will always be out of reach for the 99% but otherwise a public college ed should be free.

Of course.

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

I did omit parents (my mistake) and yes, that influence is critical, especially in the formative years. Education is a right, but not necessarily college level education. If your talking about 2 year programs, then associates programs maybe would be a way to go. But is it really enough? Large companies have college assistance programs, and maybe that would be an alternative as part of the employment contract, requiring completion of the full degree program in some time period. The higher paying jobs generally require 4 year or more degrees.

I do agree that an educated society is good for everyone, not at the expense of a complete free ride. When one is of college age, a most important part of the learning process is responsibility. The fact that the student has his own resources invested and should be less prone to risk it. One could say that lots of students mess up anyway, but then they are really just not ready to be there after all. A student should not go to college is they are not ready. They should wait unti they are.

Over Taxing corporations, etc is not a good solution. This is not a 1% vs 99% issue. Now I would support more corporate involvement in education. They understand that colleges provide them with potential resources. So they should support educational areas which benefit them, thereby benefiting the student also. College / corporate partnerships should be promoted, but not through forced taxation but by incentives. It would be more efficient instead of another governement program.

The Internet will continue to improve the ways students learn. One important point is the way a student gets credit for work ,participation and is abiding by an honor system tahtbthey are infact doing the work. I am currently evaluating the intro-calculus course the U of Penn is offering. It looks real inviting and highly recommend it to anyone interested in math. And is free.

As for a year round school, I am not sure yet about that. We all need a break, especially the young. Children need to experience any other things besides a classroom. They learn interaction with the outdoors, society, use of imagination, game playing, role playing and all the things one does growing up. But not excessive TV and video games and social media. Better to interact face to face, without helicopter parents. And you have to let them fall down in order for them learn how to get up.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Glad we agree that parents (and other adults?) must be held responsible for education failure. Children should be held accountable but not blames before the adults in the room.

I'm glad you agree education is a right. The country has of course accepted that (through12th grade) for a long time.

I'm saying time to expand that to college.

Everyone must go to college (just as everyone must go to high school).

Responsibility must be learned but not by charging for school.

I never said "over taxing corps". So we agree. Some tax is ok, and some cost cuts at the colleges is required.

We get a break on w/e, winter/spring break, year round school is required. Farming was the reason and that is over!

[-] 0 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 7 years ago

I am sure that you are aware that the vast majority of todays younger generation who want to go to college have to take remedial courese for at least one year so they can at least be able to deal with the minimum level of college learning.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago


My daughter didn't have that issue.

Got a link?

I really hate it when people talk out their ass about such things.

So prove you're not.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

The links

1.) A bunch of conse(R)ative liars ( close to 95% are liars these days), that fail to mention all the stuff that gets cut by conse(R)vatives. With a quote from that seminal liar Marco Rubio,

2.)Metlife front group, with a PDF from 06. Also doesn't mention all the conse(R)vative cuts to education over many years.

Metlife?? Really?? An insurance corporation?? You must be nuts.

3.) Texas?? REally? Texas?? Isn't that where the Texas school board suppository is? Where they LIE "right" in the textbooks?

Yep...it is.

NO mention of all those conse(R)vative cuts there either,.

4.) Oh gosh.....older folks need a refresher in a few things. Whoop.

You probably do too.

5.) I'll give you that one, as the prints so fine I can't read it well.

So you see, you really are talking out your ass.

Now how about all those (R)eplelican'ts cuts to education ocver the years?

And how about all those conse(R)vative and libe(R)tarian think tanks dedicated to destroying public education in any way they can think of??

You didn't mention those either, proving once again that you ARE talking out of your ass.

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 7 years ago

How about staying focused on the subject - stop going off on a tangent like you and most who disagree with someones dialogue do.

It makes you look really stupid. If you don't believe what I posted is true then go to the web and do your own research to prove me wrong.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

I took out all of your ass talking, point by point.

So stop talking out your ass NOW!

You see, as is often the case with die hard "right" wingers, you have brought up a subject that's already been done to death and your point of view has been proven wrong every single time.

EVERY SINGLE TIME No exceptions.

Here's something from one of those out to destroy education.

A 1%er dontcha know.


That's just one example of EVIL fucked up conse(R)vatives, the Koch's, and others have been shown to be involved too.

So please.

Would you stop talking out of your ass now?

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

UPD: on student debt crises.


Support our young people! Agitate all politicians to prevent doubling of interest.

Join Occupy on this issue!

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

We must agitate all pols to support hr1330.


Are you with us in our efforts to abolish student debt?

[-] 2 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

VQ....NO. If you borrow money, then you should repay your debt somehow. To just protest and refuse to pay is theft. No one is required to complete the course work in four years, and no one should go to a school that is priced higher than they could afford in the firstplace. We have been over this already, yet here you are, searching out old comments, shouting out slgans, etc. Get a life VQ. Spend some time with your family, go outside, try something different.

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Join with us @ Occupy. This student det crises is a result of greedy, criminal banksters, and overpriced college tuition.


Put aside your hatred & personal attacks on me, and join with Occupy.

Do you come here to divide and corrupt against the occupy goals?

Why? Are you that full of hatred. I plead with you, embrace love. It is life affirming.

[-] 2 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

I have no hatred of you VQ. I do not hate, only disagree. Disagreement is not necessarily division and clearly does not corrupt. Student debt is a lot of things, but basically is still a mutual agreement between two parties for borrowing money. Don't whine about borrowing money. No one is forced to, it is a free choice. It is free choice to go to expensive or cheaper school. It is free choice whether to compete the work in four years or go longer. When a good was purchased (in this case, education), should it not be returned if one can not pay? We have been over this already. We disagree.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Then you are at odds with Occupy!

I KNOW the criminal banksters have exploited our young people, I KNOW college costs have risen well beyond inflation.

I stand with the people & occupy on this issue. You stand with the banksters


Get on board! Join with us in this righteous fight. Put your loyalty to the bankster corp 1% aside. We need you.

Please drop the cold 'blame the victim' talking points.

[-] 3 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

VQ. You always claim that you are with the 99%, but I would say that the 99% are not necessarily always with you. Disagreement does not mean one is at odds with occupy. Does one have to have only your beliefs and opinions? No, of course not, but why should that mean they are not with occupy. And stop with the "talking points" nonsense, you violate that much more than anyone here. And because I disagree with you does not put me with the "banksters". Now that is being divisive.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Occupy supports abolishing student debt. It ain't about me or my opinion.


OCCUPY does. You do not. Therefore you are at odds with occupy.

That's just the facts not my opinion. Of course I agree with occupy, I recognize the bankster exploitation and the overprice college exploitation.

You blame the student victims. Don't twist this into something negative about me.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Join w/ OWS in support of college students


Consider this an invitation, or a bridge to the activism on the street.

If you can't attend, organize an event to coincide.

[-] 0 points by engineer4 (331) 7 years ago

Am not a Facebook person.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

You always have a reason for inaction!!

No problem. Here is the website.


Consider this an invitation, or a bridge to the activism on the street.

If you can't attend, organize an event to coincide.

Are you with us?

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 7 years ago

Supports our students! Check this out.


[-] -2 points by derain (-178) 7 years ago

you'lll never pay off a loan if you get a degree in anything that ends in " studies". did one of you miders give you the new screen name , vq?

[-] -3 points by shadows (-39) 7 years ago

Let the students support themselves.

[-] 0 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 7 years ago

We are stronger when we help each other.


[-] 0 points by elf3 (4129) 7 years ago

decrease subsidies and colleges will have to come down to meet the actual pay rates

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

We can learn from these conservative & progressive students fighting together for a change to student debt/tuition.


[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 7 years ago

Yeah that's the problem we're helping people too much.



[-] -2 points by danya8 (-98) 7 years ago

So your plan is basically....loan us MORE money...but don't charge us for it. Typical liberal. More FREE stuff... Yippee..I love FREE stuff

[-] 0 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 7 years ago

I submit college can be shortened to 2 years with year round education in all grades, I further submit those 2 years (grade 13, & 14) should free (to the people) just like pre K to 12.

The additional cost will come from cutting costs, and taxing business.

Nothing is free. But education costs should not overwhelm the individual. Spread it around the business community since they benefit most from an educated citizenry.

[+] -4 points by banya5 (-29) 7 years ago

Sure...tell the liberally dominated colleges, that their professors who make $150,000 , for working 8 months a year, and 6 hour days, to take a fucking paycut.. See how that goes over with them.