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Forum Post: Cloward & Pevin

Posted 8 years ago on March 7, 2012, 7:37 p.m. EST by 2percent (0)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Does the current administration seem to be implementing the Cloward and Pevin strategy to take down America's current system of capitalism?

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy



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[-] 2 points by wellhungjury (296) 8 years ago

Maybe a side note to your premise, but I think that a similar strategy is being used in Obamacare. Basically, subsidizing the insurance companies with a health insurance mandate. Aside from being forced to but health insurance, when the current practice of the insurance companies trying to increase profit by denying claims, raising premiums on high risk clients and so forth, people will be more willing to accept a national healthcare system.

I admit that I probably did not explain this very well in this few of words, but I hope you get my premise.

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 8 years ago

Thanks Dell. I Like the last line. It does not matter how smart you are unless you stop and think.

[-] 2 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 8 years ago

No,the current administration is implementing the take from the middle and give it to the RICH strategy.

[-] 2 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 8 years ago

If you are going to gratuitously attack someone, at least learn how to spell their names correctly. BTW, Franny thinks all this is quite hilarious.

[-] 2 points by flamingliberal (138) 8 years ago

Just because peope want economic justice which has been denied by corporate monopolies buying our senate (which is more extreme) does not mean you have to make that sentiment seem so extreme.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

In a word....no.

[-] -2 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

Care to explain that?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

(R)epelican'ts created the situation we are in, not the libs.

[-] -2 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

Sorry can't blame Reps,a Progressive created the welfare state.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

OK, get this straight.

The existence of welfare, does not equate to a welfare state.

It's apples and oranges.

You apparently missed that whole economic crash under a (R)eplican't administration. Aided, by the libertarian CEOs that shipped manufacturing elsewhere, and cut wages, wherever possible, at a highly accelerated rate during that administration.

So yes, the current demand for welfare can be attributed to (R)epelican'ts and libertarians, for the majority of that demand.

[-] -1 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

I strongly disagree.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Disagreeing, doesn't change reality.

Life is not FLAKESnews.

[-] -3 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 8 years ago

Verily I say unto you, ZenDog, that wide is the path to Republican Hell and narrow is the trail that leads to Democrat Heaven.

Satan and I are very glad that there are many, like you, who look in the mirror every day and still remain certain that the other side is what's wrong with the nation, despite overwhelming evidence indicating both sides have worked together on an agenda whose very manifestations you slower types are just now beginning to realize.

Bless you and just know that voting D, straight down the ballot, will cure all that you see ails this nation.

Hey, your double tithing checks have been rather, well uh, absent for quite some time. Can you see about getting at least the arrearages caught up?

Your vote for the DNC means nothing without it.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Say what????

Do you speak some understandable form of English?

[-] -3 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 8 years ago

I gave your wife to Satan.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Sure ya did.

Hell didn't freeze over this year.

For real, dood. It didn't. We drove through for the heck of it. They still got good burgers though.

[-] 0 points by 2percent (0) 8 years ago

Attack someone? I asked a question about the use of this strategy. BTW, thanks for catching the spelling error. That is probably the first spelling error on this forum.

[-] 0 points by 2percent (0) 8 years ago

Any OWS people agree with this strategy to bring down the USA economy and way of life?

[-] -2 points by SatanRepublican (136) 8 years ago

How can all not see it?

The Federal Government's money collecting and redistributing machine is a huge burden on The People.

The People are taxed at all levels and many hands are seemingly required to tend to it. The People get back very little bang for their buck while handsomely paying many inefficient persons to appear as if they are serving their own people.

Really, it's not just "welfare" breaking the people, it's the huge and ever growing government machine rapidly reaching critical mass of not having enough workers to pay federal salaries and entitlements.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

I quit because my private employer was treating me poorly to get me to quit

[-] -1 points by SatanRepublican (136) 8 years ago

Maybe you should have swallowed something?

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

You almost hit on something - It is the misuse of power by the corrupt manipulating the process that is driving us down.

And so we are here to confront corruption in all its forms and all of its places.

We move forward - Together.

[-] -2 points by SatanRepublican (136) 8 years ago

Really it's simply, government is far too large and much of what it's doing could easily and efficiently be done at the state levels.

Too many hands in the pie and many of them are overly compensated and very ineffective.....

despite that, it would seem that most of OWS wants lots more government.

That will never work and there are more people against bigger government that will stand against any such "forward movement" towards such asinine desires.

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 8 years ago

Obama is left winger no doubt, but fairly incompetent and ineffectual as a leader , i don't think that he is thinking of anything other than getting re-elected now. And If re-elected, he, in my opinion, will be more of a failure in his 2nd term than he was in his 1st term.

[-] -2 points by toonces (-117) 8 years ago

I'm not sure I would consider him a failure...

Gays in the military

Government health care

War on religion

He would be even more radical should he be elected for a second term.

[-] -2 points by Carlitini99 (-167) 8 years ago

you are correct, but from the heading of this thread i don't think that he could do something as big as take down the American Capitalist system (thank God). I don't know if anyone could. The left thinks it is destiny for capitalism to fail and disappear, but instead socialism and communism that have failed.

[-] -2 points by B76RT (-357) 8 years ago

It's Cloward and PIVEN. and yes 0bama and his backers/owners ar using that strategy.

[-] -2 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

Like we need anymore evidence of Obama and his Socialist agenda:

Robert Stacy McCain, in The American Spectator gives us the following words of wisdom:

"Obama's invocation of "the American people" and their "frustrations" might permit some other conspiracy theorists to suggest -- with far better evidence -- that the protesters camped in Zuccotti Park are part of a deliberate effort by the president and his party to undermine the free enterprise system. Several conservative commentators have interpreted "Occupy Wall Street" in light of Saul Alinsky's radical maxim: "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it." Others see the anti-capitalist mobs in the context of the "Cloward Piven Strategy" to foment a crisis that would bring about a socialist revolution. This suggestion cannot be lightly dismissed. One of the architects of that 1960s-era strategy, Professor Frances Fox Piven, is an active supporter of the movement and told a public-radio interviewer: "I think we desperately need a popular uprising in the United States." Piven also denounced the financial industry at a Sept. 29 rally in New York where, in a bizarre call-and-response speech, she told the crowd: "You've heard people say they're greedy, and they are greedy. You've heard people say that they are thieves, and they are thieves. But they're also cannibals, because they are eating their own."

You can read the full story here. http://spectator.org/archives/2011/10/31/organized-ignorance


[-] -2 points by 2percent (0) 8 years ago

OWS should support the greatest politcian of our time; Barack Hussien Obama. He is on track to collapse the capitalist system from within and will be able to implement a new government. He may consider a "redistribution of wealth" system as OWS would like.

[+] -4 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

I'm not surprised we're hearing only crickets on this post,the Libs don't want to take it on. What can they say? How can they really try to mount a defense?

[-] 4 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

No defense is required to counter absurd fact-free claims.

[-] -3 points by Dell (-168) 8 years ago

I guess if your blind you need more evidence.

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

You have provided none, so I guess, yeah, I do need more evidence. Since you don't seem to know what that is, I'm not holding my breath.

[-] -2 points by Dell (-168) 8 years ago

hasn't passed a budget since entering office - he's trying to break the country wake up. But then again - isn't that what OWS wants - to fundamentally change the country? In fact - Obama never hid the fact that that is what he intended to do. He came right out and said it at his events. You should be thrilled !

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Obama said he wanted to break the country at his events? Put your tin foil hat on more tightly: you are hearing voices again. Obama DID say he wanted to fundamentally change the way things worked in Washington: he was talking about ending the btter partisanship and work in a bi-partisan fashion. Yeah, asking for reason sure would be a fundamental change, and according to you the two parties working together would break the country! ROTFLMAO.

[-] -1 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 8 years ago

He has been very partisan and it is reflective in his ridiculous state of the union speeches - I mean campaign speeches.

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

After 3 years of being blocked by partisanship at every turn, after being stonewalled by Grover Nordquist lock-step Republitards whose leadership declared its main mission was to make him fail starting the day after his inauguration, I would say that the Obama's decision to abandon trying bipartisanship was wise, if not way overdue.

[-] -2 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 8 years ago

Republicans are adhering to strong economic principles such as reducing the amount of government intrusion into private enterprises via higher taxes is detrimental. Parties can stay true to their beliefs but there is no reason to be rude and condescending about disagreements. You might hate George Bush but he was always and still is a gentleman.

You obviously don't agree with civil principles.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

You have no idea what civil principles are. Do you anyone has forgotten your racist statements? And your soft-selling of the Repulbitart position is belied by the facts. The leadership of the Republitard Party announced on the heels of the inauguration that its main mission was to make sure that Obama failed. this was before a single piece of legislation was proposed. That had nothing to do with strong economic principles, but raw partisanship alone.

I used to know a few actual republicans in my youth who really were principled men. Although I strongly disagreed with their positions, I merely concluded that they were mistaken in their beliefs, rather than questioning their integrity. Today's leadership is another matter entirely: they are vile demagogues willing to sell their mothers for a nickel. I wouldn't ride a bus with any one of them, and if I stepped on one, I would get my shoes disinfected.

Good try though.

[-] -1 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 8 years ago

This is funny. I have never called you a name or thrown a slur out to you or any one else. I said Obama is an affirmative action president and you think that is racist. Sorry Charlie, that's the truth. I actually know him and he is not a nice guy. Listen to his speeches and they are nothing but partisan. The Republican Party objected to his health care plan and his continued spending without expense cutbacks. Anybody who objects, you call racist.

Do you know Obama, I do and he is a bad person. So say what you want about what you perceive the leadership of the Republican Party to be but they are not as conniving as Obama.

By the way, am I hiding behind some screen name that makes no sense? Come out and show yourself.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Invoking affirmative action (and entirely evidence free to boot) when discussing a Black president is racist. Your not seeing that simply confirms you racism. Period.

[-] 0 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 8 years ago

Your just trying to protect him. You are saying that he had the experience to be President? He was a US senator for less than four years. He is learning on the job. And he is a mean person who will use harsh techniques to be re-elected.

His pursuit of the war in Afghanistan makes George Bush look childish. You liberals complained about torture but say nothing now as we are losing soldiers weekly and he shoots missiles into villages and takes them all out. Don't kid yourself, he is ruthless. You might hate Bush but he was never conniving and egotistical. This guy is.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

No, sir, I am telling your that using a racial slur not only insults him, it insults a race. And that is what you are too racist to understand in your tiny little rancid racist brain.

I HATE Clarence Thomas. And e was DOCUMENTED to has benefited from affirmative action. But THAT'S not what I hate about him. THAT'S not what make him stupid. It's his policies I object to. Invoking affirmative action as a way to denigrate ANYONE of color is racist, you fucking moron. Could you have invoked it as a slur against a WHITE president? Of course not. You were invoking race. So go fuck yourself.


[-] -1 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 8 years ago

The sad shame is neither side cares anything about reducing the actual amount of government, reducing the reach into certain areas, but never the actual amount of government. In fact, both sides seem bent on making it grow to the point that the USA will have to take over other countries (and allow many illegals in) just to have enough people to tax and support a nation of only government employees and their insatiable government.

[-] -1 points by Jflynn1964 (-206) 8 years ago

There is probably some truth to that as power corrupts.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

It was needed if only to show the public the depth of corruption and who was supporting it. Now would be the time to remove the gloves and kick as much ass as possible. The corrupt are out in the open.

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Yes, but the problem is that both side are being tarred with the same brush. Republican obstructionism is being put on the shoulders of the obstructed.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

Only to those with their eyes closed. More eyes are opening daily.

We move forward.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

I hope you are right. Unfortunately the ignorance of the American electorate at times seems bottomless.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 8 years ago

We are making headway or the trolls would not be so upset or vicious.

[-] -2 points by Dell (-168) 8 years ago

when I hear someone say they want to "fundamentally transform America" That's what that means. how's that hope & change working out for ya ?

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

How's that obstructionism and death panel demagoguery working for you?

[-] -2 points by Dell (-168) 8 years ago

it's working great. Wait till it's your turn to have your care denied - you will be crying how you had no idea just like the Germans after WWII playing the ignorant fool. oh - I see you like to play the race card too lol! good going.

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Race card? Oh, no, it's not racist at all to call Obama the "affirmative action" president. Affirmative action refers to white middle class people. No way is it being used as a derogatory slur about minorities or people of color.


What care will be denied, moron? How does having a meeting with an independent social worker, who tells you what ALL of your OPTIONS are in end of life care, and then fills out the paperwork so YOUR wishes will be adhered to, represent a denial of care? Because that is what all you shitheads were screaming about. Making sure YOUR wishes as a patient were followed after getting all the information you may not have known about. Rich people get that counseling now because they pay for it. This would extend that service to poor people. Yeah, sure, it's a death panel and it's all about killing grandma and the Republitard propaganda is not demagoguery at all. You stupid shit.

And I HAVE had my care denied, and it is being denied right now, and I will likely become crippled by it and possibly even die. And guess who's doing the denying? The insurance companies. Not the government. Not the doctors. The insurance companies. The affordable health care bill, when if finally takes effect in 2014, will change that. But if your corporate ass licking tea baggers and republitards prevail, me, and lots of others like me will die. AS they have been doing. 45,000 people every year BEFORE the recession, died as a result of not having access to health insurance. It is higher now, after so many millions, lost their jobs and along with it , their insurance. And any job creation program has been blocked by the asshole you support. Pricks like you enjoy watching people suffer, watching them lose their homes, their health, their food security.

So go fuck yourself up the ass with a knife.

[-] 0 points by SatanRepublican (136) 8 years ago

"me, and lots of others like me will die. "

I hate that as you make the world, from Satan's perspective, a much better place. Hang on and try to become much more miserable in the process.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Choke on the bile of your own making. Drown in the pools of it you manufacture.

[-] 0 points by SatanRepublican (136) 8 years ago

Groschengrab if you can afford it, if not, invest in hefty

[-] -2 points by SatanRepublican (136) 8 years ago


[+] -4 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

Coming from you that's a compliment.

[-] 4 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Glad you think it's a compliment that you base everything on lies.

[+] -4 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

Everything is a lie to you,except of course your propaganda.

[-] 4 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

Of course YOUR propaganda, based on nothing but hatefulness, selfishness and greed, is the truth! And this thread is a prime example.

Go home under your bridge, troll.

[-] -3 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

More manufactured outrage and OWS/Leftist talking points. No matter how much you regurgitate that bile it still doesn't make any sense or truth.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

It looks to me that the manufactured outrage of the OP is right wing shit, not leftist.

Go ahead, Read it. I still doubt you would understand a syllable.

And since you have clearly stated that you hate OWS, and this it the website for OWS............:


Go home under your dank bridge.

[-] -1 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

"And since you have clearly stated that you hate OWS,"

Please show me the link to my comment or post that stated the above lie.

I've never posted anything like that,I don't "hate" OWS.

You can't be truthful. You can only lie,I'm sure you'll just manufacture something to fit your narrative.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

You equated my "bile" with OWS. You said that OWS manufactures outrage. Those are YOUR words, right here on this very thread, three post up.. They do not speak to a love of OWS, now do they? Contempt is closer to it, not matter how distortedly and feebly and transparently you lie about it.

Yeah, you support OWS, and I've got a bridge to sell you.

Go back under your dank, slimy, bridge, troll.

[-] -3 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

"clearly stated that you hate OWS" I did not clearly state or write those words. I may disapprove of OWS,I've been clear about that but I don't "hate OWS" You're spinning and trying to put words in my mouth and it won't work. Disapproval and hatred are two different things. Your attempt at trying to paint me as some hateful person is just bullshit

I didn't specifically state "OWS manufactures outrage". YOU manufacture outrage. Is somebody reading this to you? Do you have comprehension issues? If you do,I don't care just get your shit fixed.

[-] 4 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

"manufactured outrage and OWS/Leftist talking points"

Whose manufacture outrage again? Whose talking points again?

If you "disapprove" of OWS, parsing words aside, and this is the OWS website.......



[-] -3 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

At least you've stopped the erroneous "hate OWS" lie.

That's a start.

Why does it matter to you why I'm here?

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 8 years ago

You are a fucking troll, spewing venom and lies, working as hard as your dissembling pea brain allows to harm OWS. And that why it matters.

[-] -2 points by toonces (-117) 8 years ago

When they run out of arguments that could sway the debate, they will call you names... Just consider it a win for you.

[-] -2 points by sunstar (-14) 8 years ago

Yes of course,this has been Obama and the Progressive's plan for years.

You can't "fundamentally transform" it until you break it first.

Great post,thanks.