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Forum Post: Civil War in Wisconsin

Posted 5 years ago on June 5, 2012, 9:52 a.m. EST by votasaurus (62)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Families are turning against each other today as people hit the polls em masse to vote in the recall election. Unfortunately, too many people are still brainwashed into thinking that unions are a problem, instead of an ideal that we should strive to achieve everywhere.

What have unions done for us? Minimum wage, less child labor, 40-hour work weeks, overtime, lunch breaks, and more have been given to the 99% thanks to union-fought battles. Do you want to go to work for 12 hours a day in dangerous environments, with no breaks and a pittance for pay? Do you want to work like the Chinese? Unions don't think so. They're fighting for YOUR rights everyday.

A lot of "conservatives" try to frame this argument as a referendum on some perceived excessive wages. The truth is that unions have the power, through "collective bargaining" to demand that they are paid living wages for the critical work that they do for Wisconsin's government. If you are against unions, then you are against firefighters, policemen, social workers, and other people that directly affect your day-to-day life getting a fair wage. Do you really think you will feel safe if your local police force is paid minimum wage? What kind of people do you think will apply to be firefighters is the job only paid $8 per hour? Would YOU risk your life for a shitty wage like that?

We should all support unions, because they represent what happens when the 99% wins and is treated fairly in the workplace. People aren't fired for discriminatory reasons, are paid a fair wage, and get the benefits that they deserve. The 1% politicians HATE to see anyone from the lower classes receive a fair wage, even though the 99% steel workers work way harder than any stock broker sitting in front of a PC all day does.

Today is the day to go out and declare "I support the 99%." Go to the polls and VOTE OUT Scott Walker. Vote NO to greed! Vote YES for workers' rights! Vote TO to the 1% policy!



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[-] 5 points by bensdad (8977) 5 years ago

Oh my God!
Don't you know that we are not allowed to support a candidate who supports us.
david & charles told me that we are supposed to sit and argue or march with signs
especially against puppets

[+] -4 points by CaptainTony (-145) 5 years ago

For whom shall you cast your vote, Grasshopper?

  • Bushbamney (and maintain the status quo)

  • Third Party (and maintain the status quo)

  • Nobody (and maintain the status quo)

[-] -3 points by Freemantake (-21) 5 years ago

Go Gov Walker

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33471) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Yes - to court and perhaps prison - but definitely do go.

[-] -3 points by CaptainTony (-145) 5 years ago

"There go the people. I must follow them, for I am their leader!"--DKAtoday

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33471) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Cap'n where's Teneille?

Trashy? or ButtBrucie?

I'm guessin ButtBrucie.

[-] -3 points by CaptainTony (-145) 5 years ago

Not sure where you're going with all this. Are you?

[-] -2 points by CaptainTony (-145) 5 years ago

If you win, Koch money will continue to buy American elections and politicians.

If you lose, Koch money will continue to buy American elections and politicians.

Think about that...

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 5 years ago

You can kvetch or you can do

Virtually everything we want hinges on disarming our opponent –
by stopping the flood of bribes into our government.

Join the NYC OWS
Corporations are not People and Money is not Speech Working Group

This is the first REAL step to REAL change .

government OF the people BY the people FOR the people

Join the NYC OWS Corporations Are Not People and Money Is Not Speech Working Group
………….( even if you are not near NYC )

http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com no signup or password check out our comprehensive analysis of
the 17 existing proposed amendments
and our detailed historical timeline of corporate personhood


We can continue,

as a movement of demands
as a movement of declarations
as a movement of marches


Are you ready
.....................FOR ACTION ?
Are you ready
.....................TO DO SOMETHING REAL ?
Are you ready
......................TO JOIN 83% OF YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS ?

We must not
DEMAND that we WANT THEM.to give to US
We must

Because of the Supreme Court's decision,
we cannot accomplish anything significant, without FIRST -

Overturning Citizens United !!!
Ending Corporate Personhood !!!

83% of Americans already agree on it
as stated in the ABC/Washington Post poll


In the the PFAW Poll -

85% of voters say that corporations have too much influence over the political system today.
77% think Congress should support an amendment to limit the amount corporations can spend on elections.
74% say that they would be more likely to vote for a candidate for Congress who pledged to support a Constitutional Amendment limiting corporate spending in elections.


Section 1 {A corporation is not a person and can be regulated}
The rights protected by the Constitution of the United States are the rights of natural persons { human beings } only. Artificial entities, such as corporations, limited liability companies, and other entities, established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state shall have no rights under this Constitution and are subject to regulation by the People, through Federal, State, or local law. The privileges of artificial entities shall be determined by the People, through Federal, State, or local law, and shall not be construed to be inherent or inalienable.

Section 2 { Money is not speech }
Federal, State and local government shall regulate, limit, or prohibit contributions and expenditures, including a candidate’s own contributions and expenditures, and may restrict all financing to “public financing” for the purpose of influencing in any way the election of any candidate for public office or any ballot measure. As above, all foreign contributions are forbidden.

Section 3 { Transparency & Disclosure }
Federal, State and local government shall require that any permissible contributions and expenditures be publicly disclosed less than 60 days after the transaction and before the election.

Section 4 { Voter Suppression }
Federal, State and local government shall not require any new forms of id for voting, beyond what was needed to register for previously registered voters. College photo-id ( including for out-of-state students ) must be acceptable. Federal, State and local government shall permit early voting for at least the 6 days before the election day.

Section 5 { Election Day & Registration }
Federal, State and local government may make election day a holiday. Federal, State and local government must allow simultaneous registration and voting on election day.

Section 6 { Eliminate the Electoral College – one man one vote } The electoral college is abolished and the President and Vice-President will be elected by popular vote. .

Section 7 { Eliminate the Filibuster } Unless specified in the Constitution , all voting in the House and Senate shall be based on a simple majority.

Section 8 Nothing contained in this amendment shall be construed to abridge the freedom of the press .

{NOTE: sections 4, 5, 6, 7 are not required to overturn CU – just my wish list }


Our primary goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decision Citizens United (2010) , that enables unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we only have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.


THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)

If they could tie the left and right into a success - WHY CAN'T WE ??????????


83% of Americans ( and 76% of the Rs ) have already opposed CU in
the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
This Amendment { sections 1+2 }is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process. 4
OWS and the FORUM pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country.
All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition.
None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans !
Pursuing this goal – is exactly what Americans want.
What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state our demands! Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for any of them?
83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. And 76% of the Rs did too.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions.

Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.


I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP, the TP, the anti-SOPA – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power and political pressure to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one task that the MAJORITY want.

There are at least seventeen different Constitutional Amendments in the works.
Help us support these moves to get the money out of our political system.

Join the NYC OWS Corporations are not People and Money is not Speech Working Group
http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com http://www.nycga.net/groups/restore-democracy

regular meetings Wednesdays 5:30-7:30PM @ 60 Wall St – The Attrium

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[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Seems the World at large knows more about what's at stake ion Wisconsin, than a whole lot of posters around here.

Seems Walker is not much of hero by any sane means.


[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8732) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

thanks for the post, if Walker loses it will be a defeat for big money for sure

[-] 2 points by BetsyRoss2 (125) 5 years ago

Today is the day to vote FOR the 99%! Vote NO to Walker!

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 5 years ago

any one who votes against the unions is voting for the 1%. are that that many stupid uneducated people alive? that actually think any money saved from union pay will go anywhere except into the pockets of the politicians and the ceo's? certainly not back into the economy as it does when used as wages.

[-] 3 points by BetsyRoss2 (125) 5 years ago

Sadly, too many people just regurgitate what Fox News tells them, instead of doing their own research...

[-] -3 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 5 years ago

To try and relate the current union thugs to the work done by those unions of the past is ludicrous. Worker protections are enshrined in federal law, to say we're going back to 12 hours for Chinese wages is silly if not stupid. Unions were replaced by OSHA, NLRB, EPA and the Labor Dept. Now they are nothing more than thieves.

How many average WI voters make 81,000 dollars including health for life and a fat retirement (average public sector worker in WI). Fuck them.

It they'll tie worker compensation, health and retirement to the American private sector average then more power to them. If not, fuck them again.

[+] -4 points by Freemantake (-21) 5 years ago

F the unions, they are the disease of America. Walker will prevail