Forum Post: CIA whistle blower tells the truth about 9/11 and the PATRIOT ACT ! In another very similar case, FBI whistle blower reports cover up of 9/11 related intelligence reports!
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 30, 2011, 12:36 a.m. EST by ContinuationofEarth
(220)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Susan Lindauer, former CIA, cousin of the person who whispered to the president on 9/11, saying "Mr. President! The country is under attack!", tells the truth about 9/11 which took our liberties away, bankrupted the economy, and put many countries on fire by dividing people on racial and religious lines. Please hear her voice!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxJTwbHdH6k
My Post is under attack and being discredited by some. Please ignore the ugly pictures on this post. Please learn the truth and spread the truth! We need to end this madness and bring peace to the planet. People, all over the world want peace and prosperity for all. It is unacceptable that at any time in history, it is possible to manipulate people in destroying each other. It is the ruling class war on people to protect the power structures. Please hear her voice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxJTwbHdH6k
FBI whistleblower explains the difficulties whistleblowers face. She reported cover up of pre-9/11 information by the FBI.
I just love it when truths come out!!
Thank you. This is not a conspiracy theory. They couldn't kill her. They couldn't discredit her enough because of her social position. She is afraid of her life. American are afraid and things are very corrupt. Nobody investigates on behalf of people. We all know what happens to these heros who reveal the truth by risking their lives.
meanwhile free Private Bradley Manning also
Susan Lindauer was put in jail by the FBI because she knew too much. The FBI does not imprison harmless crazy women. Her brother, interviewed by the New York Times (link below) confirmed she told him about 911 before it happened. The Israeli secret service knew about it, but didn't do diddly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/29/magazine/susan-lindauer-s-mission-to-baghdad.html
"'Dr. Fuisz has said that he can confirm absolutely that no Libyan national was involved in planning or executing the bombing of Pan Am 103,''"
Meanwhile; back in the real world. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8645879/Libyan-foreign-minister-admits-Lockerbie-bombing-involvement.html
I live in the real world, it is too complicated even you consider simple office politics. In real world bullies get away with lies, sociopaths put fear in people and manipulate like hell, they win almost all the time because the heard is blind and silent. That is how these unbelievable child molestation cases of priests can only be discovered for many years later, like Irish Church cases and many other cases in Europe and America. There is systemic lying, bullying, and manipulating in society, people in power take advantage of it all the time, governments lie and cover things up all the time. It is not surprising there are many different kinds of information out there, one need to use his instincts and intelligence to uncover the truth in this real life everywhere and all the time.
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The way she chose to do so, however, was not by signing petitions or marching in demonstrations, but by engaging in the kinds of clandestine encounters that you read about in spy novels -- meeting foreign diplomats, passing along secret messages and engaging in other activities that would eventually lead to her arrest. ''I'm what they call a useful idiot,'' she said with a laugh. According to the federal charges filed against her by the United States attorney for the Southern District of New York, Lindauer repeatedly violated U.S. law beginning in 1999 by meeting with Iraqi diplomats at the Iraqi Mission to the United Nations in New York and with agents of Saddam Hussein's Iraqi Intelligence Service (I.I.S.). She was also indicted for accepting money from the Iraqis and traveling to Baghdad, where she met with Iraqi intelligence agents, in violation of federal law. ''From on or about Feb. 23, 2002, through on or about March 7, 2002,'' the indictment charged, ''Susan Lindauer, aka 'Symbol Susan,' met with several I.I.S. officers in Iraq, including at the Al-Rashid Hotel in Baghdad, and received cash payments of approximately $5,000.00.''
F*ck, no wonder. That's going to ring some alarm bells, especially after the war started and she's passing information to Iraq. She was never authorized to do this by the CIA, she is lying. She just did this anyway, and that's why she was arrested.
Nice to meet you again!
Eco Rico=Thrashy thrash= Glue con =Moles who attack our movement
Nice to meet you!
@ Scout : Yours is actually The Most Important Post here and as such, I post : http://www.bradleymanning.org/ . fiat justitia ...
I agree :)
He is an insider as well. He showed us how we create terrorist so this war can go on forever.
BUT great news for Julian Assange of Wikileaks !
5 December 2011 The UK High Court of Appeal has ruled that one of the two points raised by Julian Assange’s team is of "general public importance" and should be considered by the Supreme Court.
http://www.swedenversusassange.com/
He is a hero as well. It was all manipulation, we were creating terror by killing people on the one hand, and declaring these people as terrorist on the other work. It works , as long as there is violence and you control the media, you can always go and say "look they are violent, they hate our freedoms ..etc" I believe Muslim countries and people are the innocent side, they should be left alone to progress toward democracy which will happen eventually because Saddam and Qaddafi were secular people besides the fact that they were dictators. Many great nations built by dictators. By bombing people we make sure they don't develop economically so they will always be backward and since they are Muslims , Muslim nations will stay backward and will not develop democracy and secularism. So we can always bomb them again whenever we want if necessary. It is like chicken egg problem. We switch causes with results. It is the military industrial complex, these are artificial managed wars. Nobody hates our freedoms, they want our freedoms, and if we don't bomb them they will build similar democracies at the end.
Stop! Do not reveal the deepest secrets of your nation, or our nation.
I can't get Thrasymaque to answer this. I am posting it here. If it is a problem let me know and I will delete
Thrasymaque
Well I guess according to your babble and rationalizations one should not believe anything unless there absolute proof. Is there absolute proof that the towers could come down on their own foot print. No. Is there a valid reason that building #7 would come down at all. No. And it was not even mentioned in the 911 report.
Tell me Thrasymasque. What happened, where is the required proof of your belief? Better yet what is the source of your information? If you look at all the evidence and proof, it looks like you believe the conspiracy theory. It could not have happened as you have been told and believe. It is physically impossible. Yet you believe it!
Oh wait a minute! You use that “if the Government says it than it must be true and don’t question it” rule
I love my country but I do not trust my government nor does the rest of the world trust our government, that NEEDS to change. It is our government and if it is doing things to danger our lives in the world we need to make our government do as we want it to do. Is the dog wagging the tail or is the tail wagging the dog?
OK.
Proof there were hijackings: Radio conversations and phone calls made from the flights at the time are recorded. Proof the buildings were hit by planes: Photo's, eye witnesses and video. Proof that building 7 came down from structural damage: Firefighter eye witness reports of the structure damage. They evacuated the building previous. There's footage of the side of the building that was burning and damaged available now.
Sources: Eye witness testimony from the time, 24 hour live coverage of the events. Numerous peer reviewed essays on the structural damage, and forensic evidence recovered from the site.
Conspiracy Theory Evidence: All of the above, except for any piece that is inconsistent to the theory. All of the evidence comes from the same resources as above. Most of it is from the main stream media, much of the initial reports were incorrect but the media was trying to provide up to date information. The FBI has publicly corrected some of the errors, such as, they never found evidence of bombs.
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Stop! Do not reveal the deepest secrets of your nation, or our nation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trollface.svg
You're losing your touch. I actually would argue on your side of this issue for once, but you seem to have deliberately made the thread a nightmare to scroll through. I think I'll actually read it more closely now, since your actions indicate it may have interesting information you'd rather suppress than logically counter. You have single handedly turned a topic I'm not really interested in into an intriguing one, enough for a bed time read at least, unlike any truther could have done...LOL. I wasn't even going to check out the initial link till I saw this from you :)
If you are interested by this topic that's fine. We all have different interests and I encourage you to read whatever makes you happy. We only have one short life to live. If conspiracy theories are your thing, dive in! It's a complex world just waiting to be discovered.
I'm just testing the reliability of this website. These are tests that had to be done, and doing them on threads that aren't even supposed to be on here as per the forum rules is the way to go. These 9/11 threads are perfect for this type of testing.
Keep looking. You'll find the truth.
It is a false flag to justify war on no-threat countries.
Yes. I agree.
She will be a very big name soon.
I am not hopeful anymore. Right wing nuts want wars.
Why couldn't they kill her? They kill people all the time. The Russians poisoned some guy with Radiation and no one did anything about it,
She is a cousin of the whisperer. She is upper class. She is a smart journalist. That is why she is alive. So don't try that at home by yourself.
I could believe United 93 was shot down, that's about it. But even then... there are recorded phone calls going to family members of the victims or the recordings of the passengers attacking the cockpit.
Too many clashing conspiracies. Useless the Government just did this to see if they could pull off a giant conspiracy.. it doesn't add up.
And she is crazy, she might believe what she says, but it's documented that she is crazy. She just found another group of crazies and joined them. They let her off because she wasn't mentally fit to go to trial, and she refused to take any medication. I'm pretty sure she wasn't in prison, she was in a mental institute.
Phones don't work at 30,000 feet above sea level, so there goes your "Proof" and who made millions off of those towers coming down? BUSH! and his entire administration!
That has already been debunked.
“The FBI has not admitted that cell phone calls from high-altitude airliners on 9/11 were impossible.”
“There is no evidence that some of the reported 9/11 phone calls were faked.”
“American Airlines’ [AAL] Boeing 757s, and hence its Flight 77, had onboard phones.”
“The FBI’s report on phone calls from the 9/11 airliners did not undermine Ted Olson’s report about receiving phone calls from his wife.”
I’ve followed the same outline in this examination of Griffin’s essay, his fake calls theory in general, and related evidence. The 911Blogger post of Griffin’s CBC interview is here: David Ray Griffin on the 9/11 Cell Phone Calls: Exclusive CBC Interview. In his essay, Griffin also quotes from and responds to an essay written by jimd3100 in response to the CBC interview, ‘Fake’ Phone Calls? What The Evidence Shows.
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-02-10/critique-david-ray-griffin-s-911-fake-calls-theory
Even if the calls are highly unlikely, there is 0 evidence that the calls were faked. None, 0, zip. That theory is made up from a desperate attempt to blame the Government for 9/11
Ordinarily I might have considered going as far as acknowledging they may have turned a blind eye to a plot they were aware of... Who knew the buildings would actually fall down?
But if they actually did know something, it kind of defies reason that they managed to intercept flight 93, but not the one that crashed into the Pentagon. Who wants to blow up their own office building?
I think more likely an unusually clever group of USA hating terrorists outsmarted the system; and the system is now trying to milk the tragedy for everything its worth.
it's human response to call others crazy when they speak something that goes against our impassioned nearly set in stone world view. it's part of the 5 steps of dealing with loss.
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2006/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/
Everything she said was A. Already available on the internet and B. Contradictory to other things she said. See my 5 contradictions below. You guys are so knee-deep in this bullshit. Maybe you should stop asking yourself "Why?" and start asking "How?". For example; how much is this chick going to make on book sales from people who believe her?
On how the dreams of conspiracy theorists become real (for them):
Still waiting for that answer
Well I guess according to your babble and rationalizations one should not believe anything unless there absolute proof. Is there absolute proof that the towers could come down on their own foot print. No. Is there a valid reason that building #7 would come down at all. No. And it was not even mentioned in the 911 report.
Tell me Thrasymasque. What happened, where is the required proof of your belief? Better yet what is the source of your information? If you look at all the evidence and proof, it looks like you believe the conspiracy theory. It could not have happened as you have been told and believe. It is physically impossible. Yet you believe it!
Oh wait a minute! You use that “if the Government says it than it must be true and don’t question it” rule
That is totally understood, Sir !
Lol don't think for one second that she would still be alive if she knew something. She's just looking to make some money.
She is well connected in Washington. This time we have a stubborn one who insists to stay alive. It is not about money, she risked everything including her life. Such a fear and stress, even for one year can not be compensated by money. It is not about money. What money is good for if you have such a ruthless enemy.
Doesn't matter how well connected she is.(obviously not too well connected or she'd still work for them) If she was a problem she would just disappear or have an accident. See you talk about this shadowy cabal that planned and pulled off 9/11 and then you say this group can't kill one mentally ill person? Listen to yourself.
"Lindauer is also a second cousin of former White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card"
Not first cousin.
The mind of a conspiracy theorist explained with a cartoon:
Give me a break. What a lame excuse. If she had information and proof that the government planned 9/11 and the government knew, they would simply kill her. They surely wouldn't let her print her book. Important people have been killed before. It's much easier to explain that she is still alive because she has nothing and is just a lunatic. Your mind is diseased and your logic absent because of said disease. You need medication.
Come on don't make me beg Thrasymaque ------ respond
Well I guess according to your babble and rationalizations one should not believe anything unless there absolute proof. Is there absolute proof that the towers could come down on their own foot print. No. Is there a valid reason that building #7 would come down at all. No. And it was not even mentioned in the 911 report.
Tell me Thrasymasque. What happened, where is the required proof of your belief? Better yet what is the source of your information? If you look at all the evidence and proof, it looks like you believe the conspiracy theory. It could not have happened as you have been told and believe. It is physically impossible. Yet you believe it!
Oh wait a minute! You use that “if the Government says it than it must be true and don’t question it” rule
Go to bed! This site is PG13!
I got my eye on you son! Keep up the good detective work. Keep it in Matlock gear. Always.
Come on dude respond, you are better than this
Ask yourself this? Why do Thrasymasque and his group seem so fixated on dismissing this lady’s story. They have no valid arguments, just juvenile pictures, antics and annoying slogans. When I challenged him to prove his belief in the “official story” with facts and evidence he was too cowardly to reply, yet today he seems to be on another campaign to bury any comments that support this story
Here is the rebuttal that he couldn’t answer,
Well I guess according to your babble and rationalizations one should not believe anything unless there absolute proof. Is there absolute proof that the towers could come down on their own foot print. No. Is there a valid reason that building #7 would come down at all. No. And it was not even mentioned in the 911 report.
Tell me Thrasymasque. What happened, where is the required proof of your belief? Better yet what is the source of your information? If you look at all the evidence and proof, it looks like you believe the conspiracy theory. It could not have happened as you have been told and believe. It is physically impossible. Yet you believe it!
Oh wait a minute! You use that “if the Government says it than it must be true and don’t question it” rule
Digging the conspiracy theory even deeper. How far will you go!
Don't post ugly pictures! This site about ideas. It is known that it was supervised and orchestrated by some in government. How it works is that CIA has cells, so they can keep it secret. It is documented that many related to this dies, and many more silenced. People act out of fear. So many are quiet.
Will you reply to Thrasymaque for me. It appears his tiny balls are a limiting factor for him/her having an honest debate
Unfortunately many people can't accept even the simplest truth! Let's spread the truth, and inform people anyways!
We see eye to eye. I think it is only fitting to share our thoughts (-:
Conspiracy theories are not allowed on this site, and, furthermore, this is not an ugly poster. I fill fight your conspiracy theory nonsense till the end with my images. For every one you down vote, two more will be posted.
This is not a conspiracy theory.
Keep looking. You'll find the truth.
I declare you mentally unfit to join the discussion on this post. What you are doing is bullying.
Nice to meet you! Don't forget to go to nearest university after you see your shrink!
Dude, It is medication time
Is this all it take to make you come undone?
Well I guess according to your babble and rationalizations one should not believe anything unless there absolute proof. Is there absolute proof that the towers could come down on their own foot print. No. Is there a valid reason that building #7 would come down at all. No. And it was not even mentioned in the 911 report.
Tell me Thrasymasque. What happened, where is the required proof of your belief? Better yet what is the source of your information? If you look at all the evidence and proof, it looks like you believe the conspiracy theory. It could not have happened as you have been told and believe. It is physically impossible. Yet you believe it!
Oh wait a minute! You use that “if the Government says it than it must be true and don’t question it” rule
This is about Susan Lindauer and her voice! Whatever you are doing is not related to our post and OWS.
You're the Matlock of the now. Good detective work!
Just curious what color green is that suit
The effort that being put into dismissing this lady tells a lot about the importance in discrediting her and making her story appear that of some raving lunatic trying to make a buck
What is it that scares these people so much, what do they stand to gain or lose by debunking her story? Which by the way, they can’t do. All they got is innuendo and insinuations.
I love being RichardKuntGates ----- do you love me?
They don't need to debunker her! She bears the burden of proof, but hasn't provided any. You don't understand how science works.
Conspiracy theorists have proven without the shadow of a doubt that the evil government created Pepsi for the sole purpose of making people fat. Here is their impossible to refute evidence:
I'm proud of you son. You uncovered the truth, MatLock style!
Linda Purl sure was hot though. IMHO.
The effort that is being put into dismissing this lady tells a lot about the importance in discrediting her and making her story appear that of some raving lunatic trying to make a buck
What is it that scares these people so much, what do they stand to gain or lose by debunking her story? Which by the way, they can’t do. All they got is innuendo and insinuations.
Read down and ask yourself why some of these people are trying to suppress belief in her story. Some of these people seemed obsessed with portraying her as sick and twisted. Why does it touch a nerve? Most people watch it and move on with their lives.
Some on this forum seem to feel a compulsion to destroy her and her story
This conspiracy is pure fiction, and except for the few small details, any major contradiction has been debunked. There's no evidence for bombs, solid evidence a plane hit the Pentagon, and 95% of United 93 was discovered. They most likely could rebuild the plane and see exactly what happened, plus I'm sure they recovered the black box and could hear the cock pit.
There's no conspiracy. That's the end of it. Everything else is just pure speculation on your behalf. Everything this girl said was pure speculation as well, she had no facts to back up anything except the fact that she was arrested.
Susan Lindauer was put in jail by the FBI because she knew too much. The FBI does not imprison harmless crazy women.
Her brother, interviewed by the New York Times (link below) confirmed she told him about 911 before it happened. The Israeli secret service knew about it, but didn't do diddly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/29/magazine/susan-lindauer-s-mission-to-baghdad.html
This article does more to discredit her then support her, in spite of the vague comment he remembers her making three years later.
She should be invited to every university, she should be questioned, she should be supported. Every American should have an urge to talk to her, to know more about her. But what happens is that only few give her a voice. People are afraid to invite her.
Please don't post pictures.
The purpose behind it obviously was to control the rapidly changing world and to response to the changing balance of power in the world. Balancing China, cutting it off oil resources, controlling middle east resource countries, and many other actions came in a bundle. It was a military coup of the world politics. But it did not worked and it ruined our country, our economy, our precious liberties. It is time to find these people who are responsible for 9/11 and bring them to justice.
Yes, obviously. So obvious that we don't even need to check out the facts. Thanks to Susan Lindauer, the MENTALLY UNFIT women, we have all the answers now. Lol!
She is a hero! It is not easy to tell the truth when the machine is ready to eat you up! The people who discredit her are connected to power structure.
How do you know she is telling the truth? Why are you not demanding proof? You accept any story as the truth? Use the scientific method. What's the point of filling the gaps in the understand of 9/11 if you're going to do it without something solid.
All the proofs and references of who she is and what she's been through are well documented on her book. Instead of posting idiotic pictures which shows that you're clearly in denial why don't you verify the documents that she provided before saying that she didn't provide any proofs...
ContinuationOfEarth started this thread. He should post the proof. I shouldn't have to go around doing his job.
That's right and our plan is proceeding well.
Hey guys. Please buy my book. It reveals all the juicy secretes of 9/11, plus you'll help me get rich at the same time. I was very brave to release this. Now, the government is after me and I must hide. No wait... I don't... I'm right here in America. Ah well... just buy my book OK? BTW - Thanks for watching my video which was part of my book tour. You guys are great!
All scientists of the past challenged the dogma with books as well!
You're calling her a scientist now? Lol! Go and buy her scientific book then. Lol!
No, I am not calling her a scientist. Anybody has a right to write a book to influence humanity. That is how it works.
I'm calling you an agent supporting treason and the secrecy of mass murder with your act here.
The fat man swims at midnight,the fat man swims at midnight. Orange 7,Orange 7.
Lol! You are hilarious, and sick. Go see a shrink.
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They let her go at trial finding she was mentally unfit to stand trial, hope the books covers her meds.
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Ironic the combinations of accurate information and inaccurate information. The fact she is a cousin to the one that brought gwb the info of the second plane impact indicates she is a part of the unconscious network created to execute 9-11, but more a part of the positive, or apprehending an infiltration of government than supporting the secrecy it needs for infiltration. The family is definitly of the elite and so were all hypnotised at childhood within either secret Masonry or it's card carrying equivilant,
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/uspresidentasmasonspt4.htm
with memory control installed shortly after, and are conditionally programmed for their job reactions for the most part.
I would have to say, because she was working so hard to defend the constitution, that she is an awesome patriot and perhaps working cognitively to defeat her instruction to protect secrecy or structures utilizing it to gain power. Which will go a long way to explain her obvious levels of anxiety. Secret societies go both ways, for and against the interests of humanity. It can be mixed within one persons various actions.
She has facts AND unconscious corroboration by virtue of her programmed, hereditary role so close to sensitive information that could stop the nwo agenda of creating a mass fear state through false terrorism. Such factors can make it easy to mis diagnose intentionally to damage the standing or credibility of people that actually know things who can give advantage to citizens trying to restore constitutional government.
She has been microchipped now? And her memory is controlled by the Elite? Wow! You guys never stop. Awesome. Spread some more peanut butter on that sandwich! Let's make it super tall. What else? Is she a reptilian from the Brotherhood too? Damn, you got the truth by the balls!
It appears you would attempt cognitive dissonance along with cognitive distruption in the same post.
I'm talking about hypnosis to a depth of somnambulism at age 4 perhaps, memory control just before the age of reason, with a series of inductions through adolescense where later years, deals and obligations are created. Instincts are exploited. Here is clinical proof of the potentials of hyperamnesia. Scanned pages.
EMOTIONS & MEMORY:D. Rappaport, 1964 http://i42.tinypic.com/inz8r8.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/24ouc0l.jpg
I'm not interested in clinical proof that this is possible. I'm interested in your proof that this was done to this lady. That's very different.
Do you have a cancer! Yes, you do. I am claiming this, and I will prove it by linking to documents showing that cancer is real. Wait... That doesn't mean you have it. Doh!
See my reply below.
I've proven my point about memory control and somnambulism. I'm not proving it was done to her I'm explaining her role logically within the structure of what she brings, was prosecuted for, verifying it to a degree, and possibly how it was done.
Her mannerism and high anxiety indicate some form of trauma besides the legal issues. which prove that the conspiracy in government needed to quiet her. This is years later recall, and she is of the elite, still working to expose what she knows.
By comparison, you explain nothing and prove nothing.
You haven't proven anything. I actually have a background in Psychology, and you have, without a doubt, made up a story and agreed with yourself it was correct.
I would argue that, because of your culture and upbringing, you have a tendency to take fictionally stories that entertain you and apply that perspective into a logic that would stimulate the world around you. This creates sort of a video game, or movie, simulation in your brain while you are away from any form of entertainment. It's like a drug behaviour, related to the user of the drug experiencing euphoric feelings because of conditioning to their environment; and not the affects of the drug itself.
Drug Dependency in Humans - http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-6632.1992.tb25984.x/abstract
Instead of artificially experiencing an emotion or feeling, you can stimulate your emotions and experience a heightened form of arousal by challenging the ordinary world around you with extraordinary ideas. This gives a temporary rush of adrenaline, importance and slight paranoia when you achieve an "Ah ha!" moment. The high also lasts for a period of time when you are away from the stimulant. You can store information in your brain and access it freely while you are away. This allows you to take ordinary events that occur around you, and add a pleasurable twist that allows for stimulation throughout the day.
I would actually say that PCT, or Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists, are similar to "porn addicts" in this sense as well.
Since the advent of the Internet, the sex industry has profited from an unprecedented proximity to the home environment. Consequently, couples, families, and individuals of all ages are being impacted by pornography in new ways. Examining the systemic impact of Internet pornography, however, is relatively uncharted territory and the body of systemically-focused research is limited. A review of the research that does exist was undertaken and many negative trends were revealed. While much remains unknown about the impact of Internet pornography on marriages and families, the available data provide an informed starting point for policy makers, educators, clinicians, and researchers. - http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10720160600870711
Thanks for the explanation. It bewilders my mind that these people think any truth can come out of their simplistic interconnections of events. It's fascinating in a sense. I do agree it's a type of mind disease that generates a rush of feel-good feelings when they feel they have figured out a secret plot by their government and they share this information with only a few of their colleagues. It makes them feel special. Indeed, a bunch of pimpled face special little MatLocks cracking the deepest secrets of the government from their mom's basement.
I think it's worth a research a study to be honest. I'd like to see an MRI of brain activity to see how the mind reacts before reading a conspiracy, during and after in a lab environment.
Yes, a study would be interesting. I would not be surprised if it's very similar to religious or cult like thinking. Basically they start with two ideas 1) There is a gap in knowledge (sometimes real, sometimes assumed), 2) They have a theory with an enemy and a motive to fill the gap. Then they do everything to fit the data so that it explains their theory. It's the reverse of the scientific method where you start with observations then make a theory to explain them. For them, the most important aspect is to fill that gap. It's a God of the gaps fallacy.
I think it's a type of sickness. And, it seems to be more prevalent in America than other countries. I see a few reasons for this:
I have to add on to that as well.
I think, very specifically, a lack of education surrounding the limitations and proper usage of the internet. I think you can basically divide America into three internet generations. A. The "Series of Tubes" Baby Boomers who know very little, generally visit a small handful of websites and are not heavily involved with development. B. Generation X. They developed most of the internet, including hacks, security, coding, syntax, language, viruses, spyware, and every scam and money making scheme you can think of. This group is very knowledgeable as to the way to use, misuse and abuse the internet. They are generally the ones who will maintain any type of website that gets high traffic, purely for financial reasons. C. The younger generation, that lived in a world the internet has always existed. They don't really understand how online business works, or how people profit massively from scams, fraud and data mining.
I think A. and C. are especially vulnerable to conspiracy, because they have difficulty seeing 'the catch' to a harmless looking website.
As well, because of the baby boom, I think younger generations feel a sense of 'powerlessness' when they want some sort of change. Related to TV, and video games as well, they act on impulse rather than experience or logic. They don't realize that most people do not have the best interests or intentions for the individual.
I think the over protective culture as well truly creates a bubble or illusion that nothing wrong ever happens. And as a result, people become vulnerable to outside fantasies because they don't have first hand experience in hardship.
And I agree with the cult. Characters like Alex Jones have really taken advantage of that desire to find an answer, and by manipulated the mainstream media into part of one wicked conspiracy, it really collects the variety of different personality types and different forms of paranoia, and puts them together into one acceptable cult situation of 2012 Doomsday prophets, 9/11 truthers and Illumnati fear mongers.
You bring up an interesting argument with your idea of generations. There must be some truth to it, but I would like to know what is the average age for conspiracy theorists. We would need more studies to confirm your claims. Your idea does make a lot of sense however.
There are exceptions. Around 15 years ago when I was still 20 years of age I was working the graveyard shift as a janitor. This is when I first came into contact with conspiracy theories. I had a co-worker who was quite the smart individual, but he was completely enthralled by all these conspiracies of government secrets and Area 51 which was very big at the time. He was pure generation X just like I. I didn't know anything about conspiracy theories, but after getting home in the morning and reading the websites he pointed too, my first instinct was the look for rebuttal, debunkers, and critics. That might have been because of my university training. Not sure. When I told him the next day that the claims on his websites had been debunked, his answer was that the debunkers were paid agents by the government hired to cover the truth. I realized he wasn't so smart after all and I never stayed friends with him after the job. He was absolutely brainwashed. It was kind of sad. Here was this smart kid who could have become a great computer programmer or a scientist, but instead he let his mind get ravaged from the sickness of conspiracy theories. His logic was completely fried.
Even when I was a kid, I used to read about Aliens and Bigfoot. But I think at that point in time, with the exception of the few lone nuts, conspiracies were harmless. I think everyone suspected the US Government had the "Secret Department" that worked on bizarre experiments. And in the 60's, there were some. But it's all public information now, Clinton released all the data on UFO's. The FBI released everything that was not part of any ongoing investigations: http://vault.fbi.gov/ (Makes for some interesting reading)
I think today though, with the speed of mass communication, there are "new conspiracies" that spread like the plague. It just never ends. If you cut off an arm, they'll grow a new leg. Fox made that video about the Moonlanding hoax post-9/11, it was debunked in a day. I'm sure if you Google search "Moon Landing Hoax", the last thing that will show up is Buzz Aldrin punching the reporter in the face.
I watched a bunch of conspiracy stuff; Alex Jones, Loose Change, Zietgiest. I was always skeptical. But when I'd invite a friend over and watch it again, I just some how wasn't convinced the second time. It was always missing something, just that one piece of confirmed data that cemented the whole theory. There was never a smoking gun. Than you fact check, and find out some things are out of context, or you can't even source some of the information expect for a blog about a dead link.
I think these "new conspiracies" are almost an anti-Western social cult. It's reminiscent of Nazism.
Definitely one thing the Internet brought was the idea that sources are not as important as in a book.
You've proven absolutely nothing. All you do is pick and choose events to associate. There is no scientific method in your work. It's all based on assumptions. There's not truth that emanates from your system. You are sick. Go see a shrink. Learn about how science works. Get out of your mom's basement.
Lol! Yes, the truth! Conspiracy theorists are the funniest. When someone says something they agree with, they pounce on it instantly and say - "Ah ah! Look the truth!". When someone says something they don't agree with, they pounce on it instantly and say - "Ah ah! Look, another one who is trying to cover up the truth!". In both cases, a proper scientific investigation is nowhere to be found. Absolutely hilarious! Of course, they will come here and down vote my little investigation because they can't accept criticism. Funny lads indeed.
This women never worked for the CIA. Here's a short paragraph from Wikepedia:
Susan Lindauer was deemed MENTALLY UNFIT. lol!
Putting lame witnesses on the stand just makes you case look worse than it already is.
"They will come here and down vote my little investigation"
Well in all honesty your little investigation is just fucking stupid. You don’t know shit an instantly close your mind and then imply everybody else is stupid. Look in the mirror dipshit
My little investigation was very little. It was just checking out this lady and realizing she had no credentials, and then looking at parts of the video and realizing she was offering no proof but just talking. What's with the insults? There's no reason to insult others. This is a page of conspiracy theorists. They just fill in the gaps with whatever they imagine.
You need to wake up! Take the red pill! Defend liberty! You are brainwashed by the mainstream media. I witness it everyday that media has an agenda, and perform accordingly all the time!
I ain't takin' no goddaym red pill. It ain't happenin'.
The red/blue dichotomy has driven this nation mad, mad I say, into a state of paranoid delusion where we trust nothing and no one and yet grasp at the first explanation for anything so long as that explanation isn't buoyed by the current of the main stream.
I will be taking no pills, neither red nor blue
I need no pills for I am wide awake
and high enough already
There is a gap in your understanding. Information is missing. We don't know everything about 9/11. Thus, your reaction is to accept any solution provided to fill this hole. For you, the hole must be filled at all costs, even if the material filling it is itself riddled with unexplained problems. This lady does not fill the misunderstandingx of 9/11. She does not help, but confuses more. Instead of trying to fill the gap in your knowledge by grabbing any idea that is in front of you, you should remain highly skeptical and use the scientific method to arrive at a proper solution. If you do that, you'll quickly dismiss this lady because she brings nothing new to the table, and she doesn't have any proof to offer, only hearsay.
Your scepticism seems to seriously trump your openness to New Information ... can your reaction be 'bona fide' given your NOT (I assume) having read her book ? Nor is it as though she has an oeuvre to compare her latest work to ! I'm intrigued by your reaction to her ... ;-/
You didn't address what I said Let me simplify it
"Well in all honesty your little investigation is just fucking stupid”. (You based everything you said on Wiki or your imagination; you gave no credence to anything in her video). “You don’t know shit an instantly close your mind and then imply everybody else is stupid" (You don’t really appear to know anything about this lady and say she is mentally unfit. Base only on Wiki says, which can easily be fraud and deception.)
You were calling her names MENTALLY UNFIT. LOL! (Then you seemed bothered that somebody would call you a name) “There's no reason to insult others” you said
I just found a lot of hypocrisy and manipulation to your that post that I responded to in the first place.
You have no sound basis for dismissing what she say’s although nobody is disputing (at least openly) that see was in contact with the CIA, Iraqi agents and Libyan agents and high level US officials
All this makes you appear a little naïve and closed minded. You should at least find a little more credible evidence of her so called fraud before dismissing it. I am not saying that I believe everything she say’s based on her video, but I damn sure not dismissing it based on what you “think you know”
Your persistence makes me look far more valuable than I am and makes you look mental ill.
Old hippie fuck I need your help. Need help making a t-shirt. We need to draw a picture of Zooccotti Park with a cage around it. Here are some ideas: Draw a hippie climbing the cage like a monkey and throwing shit. Draw a hippie rolling in mud and shit like a pig. Draw a hippies fucking like dogs. Draw a picture of a hippie eating peanuts like a big fucking elephant. Draw a hippie as a lazy fucking Ape doing nothing
This post is racist.
How so? Explain. What is your conspiracy theory this time?
Why don't you go to the nearest university, find the sociology department, and ask one of the professors if your post is racist or not?
OK. In the meantime.
One day you will wake up in a world where you no longer have your liberties!
Your lady bears the burden of proof, not I. She did not present proof. Only a monologue in a video. Anybody can say anything they want. Proof is what matters. Sorry, but if you told me some Grey aliens were controlling Mr. Bush, I wouldn't believe you just because you said so. I need proof.
If Wiki can be fraud and deception, so can she be too. That's why you must demand proof. You are not. You believe her without demanding even the tinniest shred of evidence. That's extremely unscientific.
Saying someone is mentally unfit is not name calling. She was diagnosed by a doctor. If I say that someone is schizophrenic or has cancer, and I name calling. The answer is a resounding no.
There is nothing to dismantle at all. She is simply talking and could be saying whatever the hell she wants. She has provided no proof, and she is the one with the burden of proof, not I. You don't seem to understand the scientific method.
Demanding proof is not being naive or close minded. Believing this lady without demanding proof is being extremely naive. Being open-minded does not mean believing in whatever people say. I don't believe in Icke's Reptilian Brotherhood. Does that make me close minded? The answer is a resounding no.
Well I guess according to your babble and rationalizations one should not believe anything unless there absolute proof.
Is there absolute proof that the towers could come down on their own foot print. No. Is there a valid reason that building #7 would come down at all. No. And it was not even mentioned in the 911 report.
Tell me Thrasymasque. What happen, where is the required proof of your belief? Better yet what is the source of your information? If you look at all the evidence and proof, it looks like you believe the conspiracy theory. It could not have happened as you have been told and believe. It is physically impossible. Yet you believe it!
Oh wait a minute! You use that “if the Government says it than it must be true and don’t question it” rule
Thrasy, you can go on and on for years with the truthtards and they will concede NOTHING. They are mentally ill, willfully ignorant, incapable of accepting and processing information that counters their beliefs, and are a waste of time.
That said, they can be amusing and they will make you laugh out loud as often as they make you wonder just how fucking stupid a person can be, but trust me. They will never admit they were ever wrong about anything. Ever.
Ya, I know. I'm just arguing for fun. It's late night here.
These guys are so funny. They'll scrutinize whatever the government says until their face turns blue, but then they'll accept anything someone says against the government as automagically true. Hilarious.
If it makes them feel powerful because they think they are in a special position of knowledge and understand the intricacies of the world that we mere mortals cannot, then all the power to them. They do produce laughter, and that's important. It absolutely bewilders the mind to think of how these people can have such a double standard. It really is all about the logical fallacy of appeal to motive. They create the motive, and whoever profits from that motive they made is the evil tyrant. Whoever "reveals" elements of the plot is a hero, and he does not even have to provide a shred of evidence. Ah shucks! These are young pimpled faced teenagers still in high-school! You're right, I have to get back to real discussions. Enough of these conspiracy theorist nut jobs.
it is enticing to poke a stick at the mentally ill, though, isn't it?
"automagically" -- great word!
It comes from computer programming, but I like to use it instead of automatically in circumstances where it's more than just automatic, but indeed involves a type of magic; automagic.
Do you realize how easy it is to declare someone mentally unfit?
I now declare you mentally unfit!
See... Now i can tell everyone you have been declared mentally unfit. Part of my evidence is how you present cartoons as equitable to facts in a discussion. Next in the evidence is your unwillingness to accept the reality of the majority of your peers, with denial and a belief of being censored or attacked by the group that is bordering on paranoia. You also display a grandiose sense of the value of your own cognition and beliefs and disdain for others.
I hope i didnt hurt your feelings or insult you...im trying to make a point and dont actually believe you are psychotic or deranged. You are entitled to your beliefs. There are people who have the power to manipulate public records, medical records, medical or psychiatric/psychological evaluations, etc... I cant say what is true in the case of this woman, and unless you have known her personally for years, neither can you.
Watch the video, and see if she is mentally fit or not. "Mentally unfit" accusation is usually used by sociopaths to discredit their victims.
OK. We know she was a CIA agent and has all the truth. But, she was microchipped by the Elite and they are controlling her. So, perhaps they are making her say things that aren't completely true. We need to get to those of the Elite, but they live in the Hollow Earth and they have reptilian shape-shifting capabilities. Now, if we can only use the Nazi UFO's and ask Lazar to modify them with his knowledge of Element 115, maybe, just maybe we can create a surprise attack on their fortress near the Earth's core. Hmmm. I have to run checks on this idea. "Computer! Simulate attack on Earth's core with modified Nazi UFOs. Start with a medium level and slowly increase to mayhem. Go!".
Dude, I really do Not know just What a photo of that Young OWSer 'hongpong' has got to do with the price of tomatoes here or the price of potatoes there , lol !!
You're not ¼ as clever as you believe.
I hereby declare you UNFIT to "save young minds."
Don't post meaningless pictures please! Are you aware you are making fun of many philosopher and intellectuals like Marx and Zinn. You can't ignore the class wars of history and power seeking individuals who lead to wars.
I'm just making fun of conspiracy theorists, nobody else. I'm helping to save young minds. I'm on a quest for the betterment of manmind.
What's your take on rayolite's theory of the micro chip. Is she really a descendant of the Illuminati, and he she being controlled from afar?
This is not a conspiracy theory! People do great things and go to jail or die! We should support brave people.
Where is her proof? You're claiming she is microchipped from the Elite? Kill her and get the chip. It's just a crazy woman babbling in a video. Where's the proof?
Thr@sy : U protesteth so ardently that it made me watch the excellent, shocking yet strangely comforting film again and post : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Lindauer ;-)
The words in your topsy-turvy yellow triangle are usually used by The MSM & TPTB and are generally employed as an invitation NOT to think or analyse ;-(
Suppose we'll just have to read her book and its footnotes ...
Finally does your triangle above, allude also to "The Official Conspiracy Theory" (ie.The 9/11 Commission Report {which has NO mention of WTC Bldg.7}!!!) or is it reserved for anyone who may subscribe to any variation on the theme of the following 'Meme Equation' :
9/!! - NORAD + Thermite x (WTC1 + WTC2) + {WTC7 x WTF!!!} + [PentAgon - Plane + GlobalHawk / Missile] + UA93 - CSI = Coup d'Etat ... Q.E.D. !
Ho-Hmmm ... et ad iudiciummm .. x .
There's nothing worth thinking about or analyzing. It's a conspiracy by some crazy women. If I tell you I have fairies in my backyard, are you going to waste time thinking about that and analyzing? I hope not. There is nothing on this page worth looking into.
I watched the video. She does not look mentally stable. And, the video does not provide us with any evidence at all. It's just a women talking. It's useless and doesn't help us further our understanding 9/11.
Nobody accused her of being mentally unfit. A doctor diagnosed her to be mentally unfit. That's very different. Stay with the facts.
I have to agree with you, having seen 1,000's of these talking heads or their doctored videos its quite nauseating. I guess if your a fucking moron then you must trust the experts. I have a PHD in Physics and don't need anyone to explain to me about the world. I sadly feel that the majority of men/women are at a loss to understand or attempt, so they cling to these people. A best our buddy here CoE is most likely the ugly-bitch herself and his self promoting her book & videos to the OWS gullible.
Ya, conspiracy theories are a really sad mind cancer of our times. Good luck on finding Mr. Higgs wherever he's hiding.
Just for fun and I think this explains all, but FEYNMAN probably the greatest scientist in the past 50+ years said it best about 'conspiracy'.
Think deeply about what he said ...
When asked about the subject of UFO's he said "Since we have no recorded history of ever having found evidence of a UFO to date, I seriously doubt that there will be so in our immediate future".
Now think about that statement, its based on statistical evidence, if something has NEVER happened before, there's a good chance it will not happen today or tomorrow.
The first condition is to understand what happens and NOT happens. The political power's have long used 'conspiratorial bullshit' to preoccupy the masses. Fact.
If as a critical thinker YOU apply the Feynman test to your thinking, it can help you wade through the SHIT OF LIFE.
Ask? Is this thing possible? Is their evidence in the past?
I think FEYNMAN also answers our question on the subject of the ugly-bitch herself, she has no evidence, thus case closed.
I myself could write a book on 911, but I'll just give my 2 cents, the fact is a dozen guys with box cutters did take down a plane, and the USA public can't stomach the fact that for $10,000 USD a few Arab's could cost the US government $100Trillion in economic damage. Thus the conspiracy theory's were designed so that right-wing dim-wits could sleep at night still knowing that USA was #1,
I might add that the Arab's gave us Algebra and have much better minds than we give them credit, but that's another story.
I'm not saying anything about Lindauer or 9/11 specifically, but Feynman's comment about UFO's is seriously flawed. That makes as much sense as someone saying in the early 1860's, and many did, that since no one has found evidence of the existence of the legendary city of Troy, chances are no one will find it in the immediate future. As we now know, Calvert found the first evidence in 1865, followed by Schliemann in 1868. After decades (at least) of speculation Troy is now an accepted historical fact. In fact, try to use that train of logic on ANY archeologist and see what they think about it.
So even our own government labelled her a 'professional bullshitter', gosh I think we ought make this woman our OWS leader today, ... I'm giving up my moniker and heading out. The job search for our leader is done. Please contact her ASAP and tell her she has the job.
This is incredible!
Thanks for this...........:)
Ask yourself this?
Why do Thrasymasque and his group seem so fixated on dismissing this lady’s story.
They have no valid arguments, just juvenile pictures, antics and annoying slogans. When I challenged him to prove his belief in the “official story” with facts and evidence he was too cowardly to reply, yet today he seems to be on another campaign to bury any comments that support this story
Here is the rebuttal that he couldn’t answer,
Well I guess according to your babble and rationalizations one should not believe anything unless there absolute proof. Is there absolute proof that the towers could come down on their own foot print. No. Is there a valid reason that building #7 would come down at all. No. And it was not even mentioned in the 911 report.
Tell me Thrasymasque. What happened, where is the required proof of your belief? Better yet what is the source of your information? If you look at all the evidence and proof, it looks like you believe the conspiracy theory. It could not have happened as you have been told and believe. It is physically impossible. Yet you believe it!
Oh wait a minute! You use that “if the Government says it than it must be true and don’t question it” rule
I saw a short clip on T.V. , there was a woman who was a truther. In the clip she kept Obama for a couple of seconds to talk, Obama was uncomfortable and did not have time. He said something nice and went away. You are not supposed to do that to the president. There are limits. Do you this woman's plane went down after her appearance with Obama. There were many other American's in the plane as well. You never know who is who. You are right to be suspicious. But we have to live with people who have never seen the daylight.
I don't even know what a truther is
it's just a another label, another attempt to marginalize or ridicule free critical thinking
How many accounts do you have here now to vote yourself up?
Are you saying you can have multiple accounts and vote yourself up?
Have you tried this before? Are you sure it is not just another conspiracy theory?
So that's how you guys do it!
I've have been using a network of friends, I send the permalink to them, but they get annoyed with being distracted by my junk. I’ll try the multiple account thing. Thanks for the tip
BTW, how do you guys imbed the pics, Could you point me to the code?
richardgates richardkgates richardkengates richardkentgates etc.etc.
Hey what do you think about my post about Thrasymasque
Are you like your buddy that has nothing to say so you create a distraction? ------- Are you “your buddy”?
Are you bumping me down with your multiple accounts? Sounds kind of cowardly, but I really have come to expect that from the intellectually challenged.
TROLL
Forum Post: richard kent gates; troll
Forum Post: Known Trolls- RantCasey, richard gates, zendog, sister ray, etc...
Come on Nuke we all know richard is a troll. Let's talk about the post that reveals what an idiot that Thrasymasque, his pals (multiple accounts) and screwball friends are.
Come on let's address the post. I'll paste again for you.
Ask yourself this?
Why do Thrasymasque and his group seem so fixated on dismissing this lady’s story.
They have no valid arguments, just juvenile pictures, antics and annoying slogans. When I challenged him to prove his belief in the “official story” with facts and evidence he was too cowardly to reply, yet today he seems to be on another campaign to bury any comments that support this story
Here is the rebuttal that he couldn’t answer,
Well I guess according to your babble and rationalizations one should not believe anything unless there absolute proof. Is there absolute proof that the towers could come down on their own foot print. No. Is there a valid reason that building #7 would come down at all. No. And it was not even mentioned in the 911 report.
Tell me Thrasymasque. What happened, where is the required proof of your belief? Better yet what is the source of your information? If you look at all the evidence and proof, it looks like you believe the conspiracy theory. It could not have happened as you have been told and believe. It is physically impossible. Yet you believe it!
Oh wait a minute! You use that “if the Government says it than it must be true and don’t question it” rule
Could somebody explain to me why the frequently malignant troll Thrasymaque hasn't been banned yet?. . . . . .has he donated money to the site or something!? What's going on here? S'far as I can tell, he's worse than some who have been banned.
For all his worthless picture-spamming if nothing else:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/cia-whistle-blower-tells-the-truth-about-911-and-t/#comment-456264
I don't know how to ban him. He sabotages this post obviously. Rather than sharing his ideas, he is trying to make this post look like a conspiracy theory site about alien kidnappers, and things like that. His mental situation is questionable. He should learn how to behave and how to communicate from Susan Lindauer who is very intelligent and bright.
This is why we need a revolution!
Yes, I agree.
anyhow, it doesn't matter what anyone writes inside your post. your post speaks for itself. thank you for posting this. hopefully others will gain courage to come forward as well.
Thank you, hopefully!
Thank you for breaking this vital story! One note of caution howerver - this news should in no way influence our tactics of nonviolence - because these tactics are, in the end, more effective, and do not provide our opponents the very justification they would like for supressing this movement with violence. As this news spreads it will inevitably draw what we desperately now need, numbers. It is the contest for numbers that will ultimately decide the success or failing of this movement, and we are not there yet. So I say patience, await events, spread the word, and plan if necessary for a genuine mass migration to Washington DC.
Certainly, violence serves to divide people and conquer them, it inflicts fear. Violence comes from the police and lying authorities in form of harassment and humiliation, not from our movement. We are the movement of peace for all. It will take decades to replace the propaganda of capitalism and violence with truth and peace. Propaganda is so deeply buried in minds, in hearts, in academia..etc. "Clash of Civilizations" theory as well as "End of History" theory are all propaganda backed by the elite and military industrial complex. It is all lies, that is why people don't understand that once the empire is gone it will be clear that our economic system and mentality are all wrong, and do not provide productive and prosperous system. U.S. and Europe already in trouble because we are loosing the empire. It was all lies, and we will live miserable lives if we don't change this system peacefully. But the power will inflict violence and fear, and it will manipulate and blame us. They will use every tactic, manipulation and lies. That's what they do to become kings and queens.
I watched this video and it sent chills through me Is this true?? She sure sounded convincing the unmarked vans she mentioned used to wire the trade center? I can't believe this govt would kill 3,100 of it's own citizens like this if that was done on purpose we should be going to war with the CIA Of course they never proved Kennedy was killed by the CIA either though we know that's true as well
Just think about it for a while. She gives names in CIA, she accuses people of getting paid millions to keep quiet. She writes a book. She doesn't have a lawsuit after saying her CIA boss got 13 million dollars. She is still alive. Nobody in this country can do such thing without real proof in hand. She is telling the truth like Sibel Edmonds and others. There are many people in government who supported these people. Sibel Edmonds got many FBI agents behind her worried about the same thing in her press conference. MAinstream media did not bring these people to us.
yes, msm is busy with fashion, sex scandals and reading from their script
Well, it might be a group in CIA which is well connected to Bush white house. It is not our government, it is a section in government. If you consider you have this amazing military machine and you can't use it in a rapidly changing balance of power than you can go and do this if you are belong to this group who won't care about bombing Muslim countries, control oil resources and make sure dollar is global currency backed up by U.S. military power around the world. It might be a response to changing global balance. IMF said in 2015 Chinese economy catches up with U.S. , it is likely that it will be twice as big in 2025, and 10 times as big in 2050. There are also other rapidly growing nations. After Soviet collapse one group of people dreamed of such a power. Yes, to many people in geopolitics and intelligence this make perfect sense. But American public is brainwashed, people around the world, sit and talk about these issues. They know a lot, they have more leisure time to read. It is only American public who think the other way due to influence of media. I see it everyday that even our best channels like CSPAN and PBS, determine public opinion in every issue by using techniques and most of the time plain wrong information. We are an empire, one needs to look alternative news organizations on the internet in order to get informed. It is a chicken egg problem, and as long as we bomb these people there will be war, and terrorism which helps war machine to operate around the world, to change its course, to control resources...etc. In reality Muslim people and rest of the world seek peace and cooperation. If you allow people prosper they would one day change this system. Kings of this world don't want cooperative and prosperous human kind. We have all the tools to live well, and to create equal, just, liberal societies.
Uh, check the facts. She is not former CIA- not even close. She was a journalist.
She worked for CIA. She had trials, an attorney, she gives names of her CIA handlers.
Repeal the Patriot Act. Please sign both petitions:
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/repeal-patriot-act/JF1pdPKg
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/end-patriot-act/nH20qwfr
Homeland Security considers occupiers a terrorist rebellion.
Almost as scary as flat earthers.
Or
"tide goes in tides goes out, you can't explain that"
While everyone here is just talking, some of us are doing.
We are going to make the arrests Michael Moore suggested.
http://www.iaej.org
Conspiracy believers are like religious fundamentalists, they have faith and no opinion or fact can shake that faith. Evidence against their theory just shows how clever the evil conspirators are. That said I still feel obliged to point out, according to Ms. Lindauer, 9/11 was a controlled demolition and hijacking. We had a group brilliant enough to hide all the wires and pre-demolition work necessary for a controlled demolition in each tower that collapsed. They also had no moral qualm about killing over 3000 New Yorkers, exposing tens of thousands to toxic dust, just to get a war going that would kill thousands more.
This same group of immoral geniuses, when faced with one woman who “knows everything” lets her walk around and tell it all. No staged drunken accident in the home, mugging gone bad, or traffic mishap to silence her forever? Just put her on trial and then let her go after determining she’s mentally unfit. Did they hit their quota of senseless deaths and have to go to a plan B for her? Maybe they let her live and talk about the conspiracy so that no one would believe there was a conspiracy? Now diabolically clever of THEM!
It is not a conspiracy theory.
All right, you're a believer, nothing else to say about it then.
LOL
Keep pushing the truth! Spreading the truth is crucial to creating the world we want to see. We need to wake up as many people as we can to get real change. Those that don't want to wake up can stay asleep. Keep spreading the word. Here's a start..
http://youtu.be/iRyjzCa7_AE
Research. Educate. Grow Awareness.
Let's hope for the sake of humanity and Mother Nature that more courageous individuals will come forward to tell what they know. Especially with the increasing louder drumbeats for continued wars in Middle East and escalating crises here in the States.
Right wing nuts have war agenda. I am not sure anymore for anything. Nuclear war is on the table.
I walked out of the twin towers on the morning of 09/11 and a few of my friends never did... If there is any truth to this, so help me God...
Unfortunately it's not as we've been told, as hard as it is to believe. i also have friends who died that day. it took me time to get my head around it. it's painful no doubt, but i try to convert it into creating awareness so we can heal.
I hear ya...the second link has a part about 9/11 and the real reason was to gain access to the opium fields in Afghanastan, 90% of worlds supply. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
btw, i was thinking after i made the previous post to you, that maybe i was a bit cold or too direct or something, and i just wanted to say, i feel your pain too. i use to work also in the WTC. the whole thing still brings tears to my eyes. it was a magical part of my life being there around NYC, a time which i was perhaps full of naivety, but i'll always cherish it nonetheless.
Thank you for both the Zeitgeist links. I watched the Moving forward version recently. I think it's important for all to watch, if nothing else to expand ways of thinking and increase consciousness. I'll watch the Addendum. Thank you.
No worries...all good. It truely was a magical time for me as well.
"Expand ways of thinking"- that is key ! Happy Friday, all the best !
Thank you brother, same for you! God bless and See us somewhere in the sunshine... :)
Beverly Eckert lobbied and talked to Obama. She didn't believe in the official story. Her husband died in twin towers. Her plane went down after she talked to Obama. She wasn't giving up. There are many such events around 9/11.
God help us all! I believe witnesses are being hunt down and silenced. That is way few are coming out, and few stays alive. I believe it is a constructed one way war. Muslim nations are seeking liberty, peace. I believe war on terror is also constructed.
This is Simply dilusional. With all of the real challenges we face why go off to la-la land on nonsensical tangents.
www.nationalday911.org This is how you should respond to a tragic thing like sept.11th
Which whistle did she blow?
It is a term. It means she came forward to warn public and faced retaliation.
Hey, this is funny. Thrasymaque learned how to post pictures to illustrate his points!! OOOOOOOO!
He is not engaged in ideas. He acts like a child. When you tell the truth, you always come across with such people. Some people like to manipulate and accuse the truthers.
Enough of this stupid and boring conversation. We need to focus in the primary issue that caused this recession. We need the US Govt to prosecute the Wall Street yahoos, especially the RATING AGENCIES who LIED about the AAA rating of Mortgage backed securities. If the ratings were correct (D-), the money to fund these stupid loans would not exist, and corruption would not have ensued. Wall Street LIED to the WORLD about the ratings of these mortgage backed securities...and continued to loosen the underwriting standards. It turned into a FREE-FOR-ALL to write LIAR LOANS, and rake in MILLIONS! Focus on the issue, get petitions to force the House and Senate to enact regulation, or we RECALL them ALL!
good point. the big short gives great insight into the 08 mortgage collapse and curruption. as bad as the ratings agencies were, i believe that they were more or less asleep at the wheel. the real crooks were the big investment banks of golman, morgan stanley, chase, etc.. followed by government officials like paulson, geithner and the fed. lastly, AIG executives. the problem is that the entire system has failed and more curruption is becoming more visible. the question is how long will it take for people to awaken from decades of blissful ignorance.
Thanks, I plan to watch the clip.
God this lady is wacky.
I feel like I'm coming to the realization late, but the Thrasymaque = Glaucon equation is surely a no-brainer at this point.
don't try to fight them in this forum. Do it from the wiki.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/911_was_an_inside_Job
Thanks, I wanted to people hear this brave women. They just can't understand powerful and rich people, and how geopolitics and class wars work.
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what a joke this dingbat is. no proof at all, nothing new.
truthtards will cream in their pants over it, though. it's what they do.
That is truly worth seeing. They knew it was coming so they didnt act to protect us. Why? This is the kicker... Do watch!
OWS won't engage in such debates. They amount to petit-activism.
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I believe this will be a fact for future historians. This will be accepted like what happened to African Americans and Indians are accepted. They will never able to cover this one up forever.
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My posts on this page were deleted. I accused trasher of supporting treason. I had 4 notifications of replies and none of those posts are here. Censorship.
The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something you know nothing about and refuse to investigate." -Dr. Wayne Dyer --------- There is no hope for you guys and this movement. Enjoy your ignorance.
The only solution:
Ecclesia Occultus
The Hidden Church
ecclesiaoccultus.blogspot.com
The space shuttle was originally designed to have a one-in-a-million-chance-of-mishap reliability. We had two mishaps in less than 150 flights - Challenger and Columbia. Obama said that offshore drilling did not have a major mishap for decades - very TRUE indeed. Shortly thereafter, we had BP's Macondo well blowing up in the Gulf of Mexico - a major mishap after many safety and operational "shortcuts" for maximizing short-term profits. No disaster is a disaster until it becomes one. Anything will break down if one takes away enough of its vital parts. Try drilling a hole through the partition between the left and right ventricles of the human heart to speed up blood flow for "efficiency". The financial equivalent of that was the taking away of Glass-Steagall after the collapse of Long Term Capital Management hedge fund so that banks' proprietary "investment" "banking" can mix with commercial banking underwritten by the government and taxpayers. We all know about the financial asphyxiation and the near-death experience. Europe is going through something very similar right now.
We must apply rigorous scientific reasoning to analyze Susan Lindauer's claims. On the first approximation, there were INCONTROVERTIBLE evidences dating to BEFORE 9/11/2001 that elements of the U.S. government knew about and acted on the potential plot(s) to hijack airliners, that oversea bases were braced for attacks shortly before 9/11, and that the 1993 World Trade Center bombing suspects going on trial prompted the warnings about airline hijackings.
If the FBI detained Lindauer, it was probably a bureaucratic cover-up for having badly fumbled the ball passed to them. FBI members were sworn to uphold the constitution so FBI agents should have the benefit of the doubt about their sincerity. Perhaps some higher-ups at the FBI were just "sealing" up the powder keg using the PATRIOT act (Yes, life insurance is actually death insurance; pro-choice is actually pro-abortion; pro-life is actually anti-women's freedom-of-choice; PATRIOT act is just the "temporary" suspension of constitutional rights due to expire when the "war on terror" is "won" - doesn't this sound familiar enough if one knows about how oversea authoritarian governments work? The U.S. has also discovered recently a new form of citizenship - there was the national citizenship valid worldwide and the new-and-improved domestic citizenship valid only within U.S. jurisdiction, akin to the difference between gross national product and gross domestic product; what type of U.S. citizenship do you have?).
Lindauer, of course, has a financial motive laid out in plain sight to pad her claims to sell her book but I have no problem with anyone trying to sell hypotheses as long as they are labelled clearly as such. My concern, though, is that the populace may not be knowledgeable enough to distinguish between hypotheses and demonstrable facts and succumbs to the watching of videos rather than doing the arduous digging up of facts and piecing together the naked and most beautiful (for some, ugly) Truth.
Corruption in the hearth of government is also an answer. Many people in government pursue their own interest and agenda instead of the best for American people.
That problem is not in government only but endemic to other institutions, too. Its origin is (human) nature. Our mission is to create institutions that can meld parochial interests and agenda with wider common interests required for the utilitarian end of greatest good for the greatest number in the present and in the future. If we metaphorically compare (human) nature to fire, we do not complain about fire's destructive power but we seek to harness its power to build up our civilization. As we saw with civilization, the fire had to be contained (e.g., inside an internal combustion engine of a car) before it could be put to use (e.g., turning the wheels of a car). We need to build institutions that can structurally "contain" parochial (human) nature and put it to good usage. Strong regulations are therefore required to contain and channel the raw power for good ends.
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Why would OWS REMOVE MY COMMENT on this thread?
My comment pertained to whistle-blowers being routinely falsely discredited
This website is 100% CONTROLLED OPPOSITION.
Susan Lindauer never worked for the CIA. Why are you telling lies?
She also suffers from mental illness. She was found unfit to stand trial due to mental illness.
Maybe this is why OWS has so many mentally unstable people in this movement. You rely on other mentally unstable people for information.
Susan Lindauer ; '9/!! Truth' or this thread and chat have NOTHING to do with 'OWS' & to suggest that it does is spurious, mendacious and bogus !
Not a member of the CIA. Ruled mentally unfit to stand trial on two occasions.
Read more about her at http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A51972-2004Mar11
Right, THIS is who people should listen to.
it wa seriously a drama and not any thing else
There's a few inconsistencies.
She said that the US threatened to bomb Iraq, and they immediately gave them everything they wanted. At 1:04, she claims that Iraq was not concerned or felt threatened by any bombing threats, as they had been bombed before.
She tells a proper story, with mostly known information. But the thermitbomb theory does not hold up. She has no evidence, and admits that it's speculation. 3 vans from an unnamed source gave the conclusion that it was a bomb.
She said that one of the planes was shot down and the pilot was in prison. She than agreed that no wreckage was found for that flight.
She said no wreckage was found at the pentagon, but there are countless pictures showing clear damage, and first hand accounts of people cleaning up after. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1
(EDIT) She also claimed that Iraq did not support Jihadist terrorism. Which is correct. She than claims that the alleged terrorists were not Jihadists, and were often smoking, drinking and doing other none-muslim activities.
2- There's ample evidence that nano-thermite was used in some way to bring down the towers. Look it up.
3- No you're not taking her statement into context. She said that " there's many things that are "weird" about 9/11", that's what she answered to the person that spoke about the " missing wreckage". She never agreed with that person, she merely said that there were many mysterious things about 9/11...
5- Again, you're taking her statements out of context. What she said is that Iraq was exchanging intelligence with the US regarding the jihadist threat because Saddam also felt threatened by them. Later, she said that the hiajckers are known CIA assets that drank, smoked ect, which makes the "muslim jihadist theory" hard to believe. She also said at some point in the video that she believed that since US intelligence knew something was going to happen and that they were unable to stop it, they would take adavantage of the upcomming crisis. She also said that she believes that Atta was there to "guide" the operation. She's not contradicting herself.
No there isn't. There's one unproven sample/
OK. She still has no evidence.
Yes, but anyone with half-a-brain knew Iraq was never involved in 9/11. There's no evidence that the hijackers were CIA operatives.
1- Yes there is, look it up 3- It is well established that Atta is/was a CIA asset. Wether he died on 9/11 or not is not clear. I did my research, extensively, I won't do yours. Look it up.
I did, it's proven incorrect.
Source me. Researching blogs + Youtube = not research.
I've spent (actually wasted) so much time sourcing people to real evidence. My conclusions: if you don't want to face reality, you won't. No matter how much evidence is presented.
Refer to the last two sentences of my previous post, I just won't do this shit anymore...
What evidence? There's no evidence. A plane hit the building, you saw it. It was on TV for weeks. People couldn't believe it. You can't pull up any solid evidence, because you never really found any. You just convinced yourself it must be an inside job.
There's no evidence of explosives. Most of the evidence and quotes are taken out of context, selective cuts from longer quotes like "It looked like a missile..." "... the way the Plane flew into the pentagon."
BTW there is evidence for the things you claim there aren't. Debunkers have been debunked and redebunked over and over and over.
Of course planes flew into buildings, what's to believe or disbelieve about that? My point is that there is overwhelming evidence of foul play, ranging from foreknowledge by the government to actual orchestration by them, of the attacks. If you choose to believe the official fairy tale (that's what it is) then sorry i can't help you, I really wish I could but you're in denial. No matter how many proofs or testimonies I provide, I can tell you by my experience with dealing with people like you, that you still won't believe it. I am wasting my time and yours. You know as well as I do that you won't change your mind. The only thing I can tell you is that one day, you will come accross some piece of evidence that will finally convince you that 9/11 didn't happen like they told us it did, you'll finally open your mind to that scenario. What that evidence is, I don't know there's tons to chose from, but you will come accross of it. Then you'll look back and see how stupid your excuses and your present state of denial is.
Until then I am losing my time with you, you're bunkered in and you're too comfortable, I can't change your state of mind. All I have to say is research and keep an open mind...
Look, a firefighter witnesses an explosion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUJnuvH7EbE&feature=related
There's no evidence. It's all speculation and theory. It's small snipits of information taken from the main stream media, and expanded into a theory. They tested the area for explosives, and found nothing. Countless volunteers worked on the site afterwords, and they found no evidence for explosives. Everyone, in the beginning, suspected explosives and they didn't find anything.
The Government most likely had knowledge of it, but I doubt they had any involvement. Like I said, I'm sure some people invested their money on the outcome that it would happen. All the politicians obviously know it each other, because that's their job. And the Terrorist organization for sure had ties with the CIA, because well, that's the CIA's job as well.
IF some 100% solid evidence comes out that it was an inside job, than I'll believe it. But right now, there's overwhelming evidence that it wasn't. Everything is just speculation and hear-say. There would have to be countless corrupt people in thousands of industries to pull it off. A network that large would already have been exposed.
No such thing as 100% proof. Specially if you believe the official fairy tale.
Head ------>> <wall>
Eventually the wall will break though...
Unanswered Questions + Unproven theory = Conspiracy. No one bother's trying to answer any of these questions with logical explanations. Everything I say is either part of a cover up, or nit-pick for specific details that fit your version of the story. The fact that explosions could be people hitting the tops of cars, or natural gas heating, or power transformers never crosses your mind.
The video's say that "no building has come down from fire", but there's video of buildings burning and collapsing.
They say the building came down like it was demolished, but you can see images of the centre columns raising from the rubble.
The tiniest, little stupid inconstancy you can find instantly turns into a giant Government cover up. The Government isn't a group of elitists, you can go work for the Government. It's just another day in office for 99% of the staff there.
There are a lot of good questions, and most of them have very logical answers. The sound of an explosion doesn't instantly make it a bomb. The FBI having knowledge of the attack, doesn't mean they planned it out. There's no connection, it's 100% speculation and creative problem solving. If you take any of the answers proposed by theorists and challenge them, they are proven incorrect every time. The only answer that stands the test of time, is that planes were hijacked and flown into the buildings.
You are riding on 5 year old conspiracy information that has been debunked time and time again.
"Unanswered Questions + Unproven theory = Conspiracy."
I don't think you know what a conspiracy is, let me help you: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/conspiracy
"No one bother's trying to answer any of these questions with logical explanations."
No one, not even the 9/11 commission themselves LMAO...
"Everything I say is either part of a cover up, or nit-pick for specific details that fit your version of the story."
I don't have a "version of the story", all I know, and which has been proven ad infinitum, is that the official fairy tale is IMPOSSIBLE.
"The fact that explosions could be people hitting the tops of cars, or natural gas heating, or power transformers never crosses your mind."
Good, then I suppose you can prove that those were the reasons of the explosions. The commission didn't even bother adressing that question and no one has offered an explanation that is backed by evidence and explains the numerous testimonies but you, YOU CAN PROVE THAT...
"The FBI having knowledge of the attack, doesn't mean they planned it out. There's no connection, it's 100% speculation and creative problem solving. "
They said they had no prior knowledge, Bush said "no one would have even though of that scenario". So if it is established that they had prior knowledge, which there's ample evidence to suggest that, then it would have meant they lied on that and probably about most of the story...
"The tiniest, little stupid inconstancy ..."
That's how you pick apart a lie, by pointing to the inconsistencies. If enough inconsistencies about the official fairy tale remain unexplained then it would mean that the "investigation" (if you can call that farce that) was inadequate and a new one is required.
For the rest of your post, search 911GATE, verify the links ect, nothing's been debunked and frankly debunking and redebunking is useless on both sides. What needs to be done is to commission a new INDEPENDENT, WELL FUNDED investigation based on TRANSPARENCY not one which relied on bad science, was full of conflicts of interests and which "was setup to fail" as the head commissioner, Lee Hamilton said. (Yup, same guy that tried covering up Iran/contra LMAO, they wanted Henry Kissinger as head commissioner (LOL) at first but people would have seen through the BS right away it would have been too obvious I guess...)
Eventually, you'll step out of the trance like state you're in, of that I'm confident...
I can't prove anything, my friend. There's nothing that can be said with absolute certainly in this day and age. I can't prove I wasn't brain washed last year, and everyone around me is just pretending that I am who I think I am. I can't prove my name is real, or that I wasn't adopted. I can't prove that I walk down a predetermined path and make no decisions. I can't prove there is God, and I can't prove there is no God.
But I have no more reason to believe it's an inside job of planted explosives, than I do that water heaters and generators exploded. In all honesty, I would prefer to believe it was something logical and related to the specific event. I don't want to live my life in hatred and fear, arguing with every person I see because I read something on the internet that confused me and caused me to be fearful, distrusting and hateful. Is that not exactly what the terrorists set out to do? Do you not see how they won?
To be honest, I didn't hear any explosions, as I wasn't there. It's all hear-say to me. I simply have no reason to believe the Government is out to get us, and I have no reason to believe Muslim Extremists are after us all the time either. It sounds like an isolated incident. Other than being an occasional pain in my ass, or the odd well-documented incident of police abuse, I don't really care much about what the Government does. It doesn't really offend me if they are spying on me, because I am not involved in any illegal activity.
And as well, I don't honestly believe the 9/11 commission report's purpose was to mislead and lie to everyone about 9/11. Just as I don't think the Iran/Contra was known by everyone in the White House, and it sure didn't take long for the truth to come out. Everyone loves to be a whistle blower. But that isn't that far fetched, it's very simple.
The 9/11 theory just isn't that simple. It goes all over the place, there's a hundred different conspiracy explanations for one or two missing details, and no logical solutions proposed. It's either part of a conspiracy, or part of the cover up to the truth movement.
There is nothing left to investigate in my opinion. The site has been cleared, and we just have video footage and testimonial from a few isolated cases that don't sync up in detail. The only solution would be to arrest everyone whom you suspect was involved (the whole Bush Administration) and bring them to a proper court. You would have to verify that the jury had no bias or knowledge of 9/11 (which is next to impossible), and find a judge who has no relationship to anyone involved (which would also be next to impossible). Even if they did go to trial, and proved beyond a reasonable doubt that they had no prior knowledge and any mistakes in the 9/11 commission report were unintentional and later corrected (such as building 7), the conspiracy theories would continue. They don't want to end, and to many people are making money off of their existence.
How can you possible disprove that an entire elite group of people run everything and control all the major events in history? They lied about everything that has ever happened, controlled all the media and write the history books. They can orchestrate an entire days events, with thousands of Zombie staff members working for them and later murdered, or paid off in massive amounts, they can plant bombs, secretly land planes and murder all staff and passengers, create fake phone calls to specific targets, evacuating buildings and have everyone tell the media they saw a plane hit, than continue talking on news radio, television and print without mentioning a word of explosives or prior knowledge. They brain washed the entire planet to believe that a relatively small attack (compared with the millions killed in concentration camps) was the result of a group of people they admit to controlling as well, just to get into Iraq and get oil, and more money? No, sorry. There's no Mens rea in this case. It's to impossible. And if it is possible, it's so beyond my ability of comprehension and control that it's not even worth worrying or thinking about.
Who can challenge anyone who has the power to use explosives to take down 3 buildings and attack the Pentagon in shroud of a terrorist attack from hijacked planes; yet not use any real planes and have everything so well, unbelievable, unmistakably planned out that it resembled the perfect cover story without doubt, convincing millions of people living in New York who witnessed the planes fly into the towers, witness the buildings burning, watched them buckle and collapse? It's not possible that the whole world is an illusion.
It just doesn't work. You can't disprove the theory that you live in "The Matrix" and "Nothing is Real, Strawberry fields forever." You are just taking snippets of information and building the dream you wish to live in. You aren't hurting anyone but yourself, digging deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. If you really, really want to make a difference in this world, or you actually want to find the truth, than why are you talking with people who have no inside information? Why not apply for a job at the FBI, or CIA? Why not get a law degree, join a political party, run for president?
"There is a growing movement of Book Writers, Documentary Film Makers and people who buy all their products..."
Amount I've spent on those books: 0$
"Bullshit. I watched two minutes of the video, he said that FEMA sent him to the towers before they knew it was an Airliner. They thought it was a small airplane"
Perhaps you should have watched the rest (And most important part) about how he still has in his posession the videos which proves that the US government had prior knowledge... Coincidentally he is accused of killing his first wife (she commited "suicide") and is a political refugee in Argentina.
"Pakistan wiring the money was debunked as well. "
No it wasn't "debunked", the 9/11 apologist site couldn't conclude positively or negatively. No one has even looked into that further to see if there is anything...
"Are you so ignorant that you truly believe these 9/11 sites update constantly because they want to get the truth out? They're trying to make money by exploiting a bad situation."
Most of those videos are available for free. The videos are free, the data is free, the books are free (Pay S&H or just download them), I've never paid a dime about anything. As for the last one I linked you, it is only natural that he wouldn't just "give away" his book, he is exiled, needed to go public (for protection), he still has the tapes of the debris which show thermate and he is an eye witness of the before and after empty rooms in building 6 and will bneed $ for his legal battles...
Speaking about who profits from this, I'm sure you know that the companies who profited the most from this are all related to the Bush administration or to media moguls, I'm sure you know that since you accuse others of profiting...
"The media played all sorts of 9/11 truth videos, they were all debunked and people were offended and didn't want to see it anymore so they stopped. It has nothing to do with censorship. "
Consider the source: BBC and other corporate media. Dude do you really think they would have exposed their governments on such a conspiracy that would litterally change the perception of what a government is in their so called "documentaries"? No. Use your logic. Documentaries on MSM are the last ones you should trust. The big 6 media corporations are owned in some way or another by the government or are endebted to the banks (which is fused with government).
"According to the AFIP, the FBI considers the investigation into the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 as still open"
Yet they have investigated very little outside the report...
"I, for one, do not want that shit involved with some of the real issues in the country."
Ya, like the fact it has bankrupted the country, that we're involved in 2 wars and thinking about a third one, that it has given rise to the surveillance state, that they'll censor the internet because all they have to do is point to 9/11 and it will be done, that it has allowed to shift more and more power to the executive bypassing the check and balances which our form of government is founded on...
You will never change your mind even if Bush fucking said it. You just won't. The report was a joke of an investigation which began with a conclusion which was manipulated so that it didn't conclude anything else other than what the media and the government had been drilling into your head for the past years. No other conclusion was contemplated and all the data was funelled so that it concluded the exact same thing.
"This conspiracy is tired and so 2005. It's been long debunked. Let it go. "
Nothing's been debunked, the so called investigation is a farce. You might be satisfied with such a farce, I'm not. The truth is timeless, nothing to do with 2005 or 2011. They hope people forget and just let it slide, won't happen.
If everything really happened like they said they did then prove it with a real investigation where all the available evidence is examined with no preconceived notions or conclusions, something the 9/11 Report fails spectacularly. Eventually it will happen as more and more people are realizing the scam but the sooner it begins, the better the integrity of the investigation will be.
This is my last post to you, you'll find any and every excuse to not even contemplate foul play, this discussion is pointless I'm sure you'll agree. I do invite you to check the new data at 911GATE.
10+ years and no tapes? Proves nothing.
Kurt Sonnenfeld: I am convinced that my tapes reveal many more anomalies than I am capable of recognizing given my limited qualifications. I will therefore cooperate in any way that I can with serious and reliable experts in a common endeavour to expose the truth.
The tapes prove nothing. They just have some oddities that he thinks might prove something, but is not clear evidence of anything.
Colorado police department is in on the conspiracy? Evidence.
The video's and data are free, but they still make money off the website through donations and advertising. Turning on the TV is free too. That's not how you make money. They also buy and sell the domains. Are you making money off 9/11 being an inside job? No? Than I guess you're just wasting your time.
Bush was the president of the United States. No matter what he did, companies associated with Government contracts make money. They are still making money, and made money before 9/11. That doesn't mean anything.
90% of the information you source is from corporate media, with someone else talking over it. The corporate media might be owned by the same share holders, but they don't call up the reporters and tell them how to act and what to report. The Media is responsible for blowing the whistle on Iran/Contra - http://voices.yahoo.com/the-york-times-iran-contra-13052.html
So again, no evidence. Nothing proves the media is withholding information. There's no case there.
Crappy building fell over. Crappy investigation, crappy reason to invade other countries. Crappy war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Crappy job fixing the economy. Yup. That's America for you, sounds about right.
Giant well-organized inside job with thousands of people inside, and no motive? That's a delusional thought.
1- Exactly, which further opens the possibility for the inside job crew...
2- Part of the conditioning made during the days after 9/11, they picked and choosed the intelligence to fit the narrative, 26 days after 9/11 we were already in afghanistan, if any intelligence contradicted the narrative it was too late...
"And again; how is the media responsible for the cover-up if they are willing to publish this with little consequence?"
It was meant to be published.
"Also, I want examples of media personal being killed, tortured or jailed for speaking against the agenda"
I won't do the research for you as it is time consuming. This is the last time I will provide links for anything. You don't believe me? Tough luck for you because I don't say things unless I have verified it beforehand:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2IabLwLch4
There's many other examples and like I said, real whistle blowers get persecuted not made famous...
"Still, show me the video that says it's bin laden within minutes of the first attack. And prove it's not a coincidence that someone told the media it was bin Laden, and it just happened to be him"
See above: SEARCH IT YOURSELF IT'S THERE!
"The media doesn't "drill", they "sell". They don't make money from convincing people about lies, they make money from advertising. There's no propaganda department in the United States that control all media outlets. If there his, please name the person responsible and also name all the official story tellers, and who convinces the people at the media not to disagree with the minister."
Tune into FOX and then turne into MSNBC, same story two different spin. If you think that the MSM isn't a propaganda machine, you're lost...
"Again; we saw it all happen. You can't believe your eyes. Watch the video. A plane hits it, the building collapses. What do you want investigated? You're just a sceptic, regardless of what anyone says about anything."
Yes and they made sure the data was manipulated in such a way as to not differ from what the media had been drilling (yes drilling) into the public's psyche since 9/11.
"Yes and they made sure the data was manipulated in such a way as to not differ from what the media had been drilling (yes drilling) into the public's psyche since 9/11"
Bullshit. I watched two minutes of the video, he said that FEMA sent him to the towers before they knew it was an Airliner. They thought it was a small airplane. But, again, proves nothing. There was an accident and they sent him there. Than he just tells "I was told" stories. Oh look, he's holding his new book in his hand too.
"There is a growing movement of Book Writers, Documentary Film Makers and people who buy all their products..."
"Buy my journal!"
"Buy my magazine!"
Pakistan wiring the money was debunked as well. And the money really is of "Little significance", it wasn't that expensive to hijack planes with box cutters and fake bombs.
Bin Laden claims responsibility for 9/11 - http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2004/10/29/binladen_message041029.html
None of the whistle blowers stories go together. It's crap, that's why they're not on US news. None of it adds up, they all have completely different reasons for the story.
You are calling MSNBC and FOX news brainwashing, but this report is doing the same thing. It's purpose is to gain your attention and make money from the viewer. It's not trying to blow the whistle, it's just trying to gain viewership.
Are you so ignorant that you truly believe these 9/11 sites update constantly because they want to get the truth out? They're trying to make money by exploiting a bad situation. Did you not notice that everything is a conspiracy, and everything has a website?
Holy fuck! HARRP caused Japan - http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2011/03/japan-tsunami-caused-by-haarp.html Holy shit! Saddam is Alive! - http://saddamisalive.wordpress.com/
Anything else you think is ridiculous? Just Google it, and I'm sure you'll find "evidence".
Basically, any argument that proves that the conspiracy theory itself may have motives outside of the "good of the people", you instantly debunk as a straw man. And much like the drug running, there are numerous cases of conspiracies being used to take advantage of the pubic and make money, Bob Lizar is a good example. http://www.truthcontrol.com/node/bob-lazar (The Government removed his name from every year book ever published. That's scary!)
You think you outsmarted the Government and the media, but than you fell for exactly the same trap through alternate media. You are accusing me of believing a story that was made up and drilled into my head, but all you have done is 'research' and convince yourself that there's another answer, even when every thing you have said is easily dismissed, debunked or unrelated to the conspiracy.
The media played all sorts of 9/11 truth videos, they were all debunked and people were offended and didn't want to see it anymore so they stopped. It has nothing to do with censorship.
And what is with your obsession with the commission report's inaccuracy? It was just a publication to try and answer some of the questions people would have had. The case is still open with the FBI.
"According to the AFIP, the FBI considers the investigation into the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 as still open"
This conspiracy is tired and so 2005. It's been long debunked. Let it go. Or go back to your 9/11 inside job forums and talk to people who don't want to discuss, but just want someone to agree with them. You can make up all the ridiculous claims you want together. I, for one, do not want that shit involved with some of the real issues in the country.
1- There have been many exCIA whistleblowersthat have exposed the fact that the US protects certain cartels and even helps them traffic the drug. Can't remember the names of the one I have in mind but there's two famous cases. Also this: http://djd.newsvine.com/_news/2007/09/29/993329-cia-plane-crashes-in-yucatan-carrying-32-tons-of-cocaine
"Why would the US Government blow a whistle on itself and fine people when it's the one in control? "
Whistle blow on itself? WTF? Who said that? I said "A whistleblower made it public"
2-"Again, it's physically not possible to pull off a terrorist attack that large, than cover it up with a completely different terrorist attack. That can be ruled out. There's no evidence of bombs; independent research confirmed it at the time"
Which "simultaneous terrorist attack". There was one. The issue here is who funded it and how (never even adressed).
"That leaves a commission report, which has been proven incorrect, but the 'official' story hasn't changed much, just been corrected."
The commission started with a conclusion, everything in it was funelled to fit those conclusions. It wasn't "unbiased" nor transparent. The conclusion was always going to match what Bush and the MSM had been saying for the past years, there was no way that anything was going to challenge the fact that we invaded Afghanistan because Alqaida attacked on 9/11 by hijacking 4 planes crashing them in the Pentagon, WTC1-2, and the other one was brought down by the passengers. THERE WAS NO WAY THAT THE INVESTIGATION WAS GOING TO CONCLUDE ANYTHING ELSE THAN THAT, those conclusions were already established in the public psyche by the MSM and the investigation was going to support that narrative, no matter what.
It wasn't an investigation, it was a spectacle nothing more. It began by a conclusion and made the data fit the conclusions...
Again; the US is the number one consumer of Cocaine. It's very possible that CIA agents are involved in the controlled shipment of the drug. That doesn't mean those individuals are under orders and not acting alone.
The funding issue has been addressed.
"A Lloyd's insurance syndicate has begun a landmark legal case against Saudi Arabia, accusing the kingdom of indirectly funding al-Qa'ida and demanding the repayment of £136m it paid out to victims of the 9/11 attacks." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/lloyds-insurer-sues-saudi-arabia-for-funding-911-attacks-2356857.html
"William Doyle told ABC News there are "concrete facts" showing the majority of the hijackers' funding originated from Saudi Arabia. He said the government helped "shield" some of that evidence when the joint congressional committee investigating the attacks published a report in December 2002 and redacted about 28 pages."
The belief is that the Saudi's funding the majority of the attack, indirectly by supporting various charities in area. But again; the evidence still points to a terrorist attack and doesn't show the Saudi's were directly involved.
There's no reason why Bush wouldn't have attacked Saudi Arabia if they were suspected of the primary attack. They are not nuclear armed. He did go after all the charities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_charities_accused_of_ties_to_terrorism
Back to drugs, Al Qaeda now supports the drug trade as their main source of income because the Charity network was shut down.
And again; how is the media responsible for the cover-up if they are willing to publish this with little consequence?
"They had communications going out. Initially, they did not suspect Al Qaeda. They initially suspected Croatian separatists, because of the date."
Within minutes of the second plane striking the building, reporters were saying that it was Osama Bin Laden; at 11am, you had Ehud Barak on TV saying that it was muslim extremists; they were also looping fake tapes of Palestinians supposedly dancing and celebrating (I'm sure you remember that). Within minutes the propaganda machine was rolling. Within a few days, Bush was ordering the Taliban to hand over Bin Laden.
For God's sake, WE WERE IN AFGHANISTAN FOR 13 MONTHS ALREADY BEFORE THE 911 COMMISSION WAS EVEN FORMED, you think there was a remote chance that their conclusions were going to be any different than what the media had been drilling into Americans heads about how it was Al Qaida who did it?
"IThey discovered the main cause of the structural failure and ended the investigation. It would have been more-than obvious as to the cause if the 'official' story is correct, which of course proved there wasn't much to investigate. They saw what happened."
Err, Science is not obvious. NIST changed their computer models several times TO FIT THOSE CONCLUSIONS (Computer models which, btw, no one knows the parameters of LOL so it can't be replicated). How fucked up is that? Not science at all, the model was conceived to fit those conclusions LOL. At first they said it wasn't free fall, then that it was, then changed again the story. then they changed the computer models...
Dude, the investigation was far from over one year after 9/11. Complete farce!
Yeah, Clinton was trying to kill bin Laden too. http://articles.cnn.com/2006-09-24/politics/clinton.binladen_1_bin-uss-cole-afghanistan?_s=PM:POLITICS
It's almost like bin Laden was some kind of terrorist that planned on attacking the United States (And had a history of doing so), and for some reason was a big target? Gee, whiz.
Still, show me the video that says it's bin laden within minutes of the first attack. And prove it's not a coincidence that someone told the media it was bin Laden, and it just happened to be him
The media doesn't "drill", they "sell". They don't make money from convincing people about lies, they make money from advertising. There's no propaganda department in the United States that control all media outlets. If there his, please name the person responsible and also name all the official story tellers, and who convinces the people at the media not to disagree with the minister.
Also, I want examples of media personal being killed, tortured or jailed for speaking against the agenda. I need proof. Excluding the Mexican Drug Cartels.
Again; we saw it all happen. You can't believe your eyes. Watch the video. A plane hits it, the building collapses. What do you want investigated? You're just a sceptic, regardless of what anyone says about anything.
"If you don't support the Taliban burning drugs, and you don't support the US selling drugs, than what do you support?"
Haha, I DON'T CARE about Taliban burning drugs, I DON'T CARE. The fact is that drug trade is being controlled by the US. And no i don't support the fact that we are there to guard the opium trade and then hypocritically turn around and pretend we have a war on drugs... LOL
"You have this backwards. The drug trade is out of control, not under control by the CIA..."
Fast And furious, wells fargo laundering 340 billions worth of drugs from the Xinaloa cartel (when a whistleblower exposed that fact, the government gave wells fargo a 300 million dollar fine, LOL 0.1% of the amount. Ya think it was worth it for wells fargo?)
BTW I know that government is compartementalized, hence fast and furious , Iran/Contra ect. The left hand often doesn't know what the right hand is doing. If anything, that is an argument for the inside job crew...
"The American population is to blame for being the number user of cocaine in the world, where 40% of the cocaine internationally is shipped."
Who fucking cares who consumes it, we guard the production of it, what's your point?
"I did a lot of research on this."
I seriously, honestly doubt that based on your stance on the "War on Drugs"
"You brought it up"
Nope, you did by apologizing for Hamilton's behabior on the Iran/Contra deal.
"9/11 was not related to communists from Nigeria; nor was it related to drug cartels."
Says you, no investigation has ever been done to investigate that.
You keep on dismissing 911GATE but NONE of it has been debunked and most of it the was just declassified (which means the 9/11 farce had no access to it even if it wanted to, that's how much of a half arsed biased of an investigation it was). There's still much much more which is still classified...
" I DON'T CARE. The fact is that drug trade is being controlled by the US. "
Evidence? The cocaine trade is controlled by Columbian cartels, and throughout central Africa, by Al Qaeda. Mexican cartels are pushing heroine now.
You are way-way off.
Why would the US Government blow a whistle on itself and fine people when it's the one in control? Makes no sense. Those are tiny operations, and they were busted in months. That is not evidence for an inside job, but it is evidence that someone would blow the whistle almost immediately.
"Who fucking cares who consumes it..." Americans guard and protect, and Americans are the #1 consumer of it. Of course Americans are corrupted by it, it's common sense. But it's not "The Government" agenda, it's just a few bad apples on the inside. In the case of the Contra's, they made a deal to a non-restrictive drug trade while the war was in progress.
"The War on Drugs" is a financial problem. It has more to do with people needing funding to continue it, and finding something to spend the money on. If you don't spend the money, you're budget gets cut. Nothing to do with corruption. It's just bad spending based on number results, instead of psychology or healthcare.
I don't apologize for Hamilton, but it certainly doesn't surprise me. The CIA is always up to that kind of stuff, they get their hands messy. Do you think the drug traffickers were safe after the event? I doubt it.
Again, it's physically not possible to pull off a terrorist attack that large, than cover it up with a completely different terrorist attack. That can be ruled out. There's no evidence of bombs; independent research confirmed it at the time. Ruled out. There's evidence of a plane crash for both 93 and 77, they are both documented and eye witness accounts suggest it happened as written. Ruled out.
That leaves a commission report, which has been proven incorrect, but the 'official' story hasn't changed much, just been corrected.
Unfortunately, this isn't a "Gate". The CIA, FBI or Bush himself might have had knowledge of the attacks, but there's no evidence he purposely allowed them go forward, and no evidence he wanted the attacks to occur.
"Clean up of ground zero eneded may 2002; 911 commission was formed in November 2002, this is straw man. Therefore, 911 was an inside job?"
Nope, you're building the strawman. I never stated it was an inside job. My position is that the 9/11 report is a farce and inadequate, had tons of conflicts of interests, was under funded and that the investigators were denied most of the physical evidence, crucial documents and testimonies. Moreover, it was contradictory, was full of ommissions and full of contradictions. In short, "it was setup to fail" like one the "yes men" commissioners, Lee Hamilton, said.
Second, most of the claims on 9/11 myths have been thouroughly debunked by many groups including 911GATE.
Third, the debunking and debunking the debunkers is useless, 9/11 truth got trapped in that little game. The fact of the matter is that 9/11 report is a sham, has been demonstrated to be a sham and doesn't even try to inquire about the funding of that operation. RULE #1 FOLLOW THE MONEY. Well, not in that investigation LOL...
Fourth, that investigation began by a conclusion: Al Qaida did it. It was biased to that conclusion and no other conclusion was ever possible the way it was directed. It wasn't independent nor transparent.
"Selling old material to a country that recycles the material is straw man as well. That proves nothing other than China got a good deal on steal purchasing that day, and that New York State wanted the material cleaned up quickly."
Good, so you admit the steel wasn't investigated besides the hand picked small samples that were allowed beforehand... Half arsed at best!
"9/11 Commission Criticism proves nothing. Bush said he didn't want to make sensitive information public, because they were engaged in a war with the people responsible. Any other conclusion is based on opinion and circumstantial evidence. There is no official whistle blower or source that claims Bush was trying to cover up a bombing."
See point number 4: The investigation began with a conclusion and flashed that as an excuse. And the people who were supposed to make sense of it weren't even allowed to examine evidence peoperly
"Nothing has come out from Wikileaks. Nothing at all."
wikileaks is most likely filtered and controlled. Nothing damning ever comes out from certain countries. For crying out loud, Assange was made famous YEARS BEFORE HE HAD RELEASED A SINGLE CABLE. If you want real whistleblowers go to cryptome. Real whistleblowers get persecuted not made famous...
OK, so this comes down to one point. "I never stated it was an inside job. My position is that the 9/11 report is a farce and inadequate, had tons of conflicts of interests, was under funded and that the investigators were denied most of the physical evidence, crucial documents and testimonies."
OK. That makes sense. But all of your information below is, again, not true.
"In the hours following the Sept. 11 terror attacks, German intelligence agents intercepted a phone conversation between jubilant followers of Osama bin Laden that led the F.B.I. to search frantically for two more teams of suicide hijackers, according to officials in both countries."
They had communications going out. Initially, they did not suspect Al Qaeda. They initially suspected Croatian separatists, because of the date.
Open FBI cases are not public. No one would have access to that information. I believe this was leaked. They still wouldn't want Al Qaeda knowing who's phones are being tapped, or who is a suspect.
The steel was investigated. "The investigation consisted of visiting Ground Zero, a survey of the WTC site, land-fill and steel recycling centers, review of videotape records, eyewitness accounts, interviews with building design teams, and analysis using computer models. Based on this information, the team has documented a detailed report. On May 1st, 2002, the results and recommendations of the BPAT investigation into the collapse of the World Trade Centre were presented to the Science Committee of the U.S. Congress." http://www.engr.mun.ca/~csce/Page_files/events/upcoming/National_lecture_2003.html
They discovered the main cause of the structural failure and ended the investigation. It would have been more-than obvious as to the cause if the 'official' story is correct, which of course proved there wasn't much to investigate. They saw what happened.
I just don't clearly understand what question you want the commission report to answer too. I personally believe they just needed something printed that documented the incident, and quickly, but the investigation has been ongoing ever since.
"So you support the Taliban's totalitarianism? Or, if you use drugs, you support the US drug trafficking."
Give me one of my quotes when I said that.
"Everyone preaches to legalize drugs, but they are some how offended that the Government controls and monitors the drug trade instead of resorting to violence. "
Ya there's no violence in the Mexican border LOL, the Xinaloa cartel is the Govmt's protected cartel, that is the reason why there is violence... It's yet another war which is phoney and in which US banks are laundering billions of drug money right under the supervision of the Govt... Yet idiots like you believe they are actually fighting to eradicate the traffic of illicit drugs when in fact much of the CIA blackops are funded by drug money (again Iran/Contra is the flagship example). Same thing in afghanistan, the war there is to control the trade of opium not about that AlQaida fairy tale bullshit you believe in...
"They could just firebomb all the poppy fields and butcher everyone involved, but you wouldn't be very happy with that. It would make us no better than the Taliban, now would it?"
No that would erradicate the trade which is one of the reasons why they are still there in the first place! The Northern alliance was backed by the US before the Taliban took over, it was under them that the opium flourished ever since they got backed by the US vs the Soviets in 1979. Then the Taliban took over, burned the fields and we know the rest of the story...
"And back to my point: this has nothing to do with 9/11"
1- You're the one that went in that tangent with your apologistic stance for Iran/Contra
2- It has more to do then you care to even consider
3- About getting back to 9/11, I already posted all you wanted, have fun with that info (nothing's been debunked, 5 terrabytes worth). (see posts below as I can't reply to your latest posts)
4- It is useless to continue with you, you are in complete and utter denial of reality. Moreover, all you do is build strawman arguments, you are incapable to go beyond your stupid "Oh you think it's the reptilian aliens" BS. You are incapable to even see that the 9/11 report is a complete and utter farce. Eventually it will hit you though, you'll feel stupid and betrayed but that's ok...
If you don't support the Taliban burning drugs, and you don't support the US selling drugs, than what do you support?
'Ya there's no violence in the Mexican border LOL'
You have this backwards. The drug trade is out of control, not under control by the CIA. The drug trade has political power in the United States because the politicians feel threatened by them, otherwise they would clear them out. They can't. They are powerless to stop it.
"Yet idiots like you believe..." Again, you are making an assumption based on no evidence. Even if the CIA is selling drugs, they aren't the ones who are buying them. The American population is to blame for being the number user of cocaine in the world, where 40% of the cocaine internationally is shipped. Al Qaeda is all over Columbia and the Islands because of the drug money, and security they provide into Africa and up into Europe. I did a lot of research on this.
Anything the CIA is involved with is peanuts.
And you are all like "Omg! I can't believe there is corruption involved in millions of dollar of illegal drugs being shipped into the country!" The "government" isn't directly involved, but it's hard to refuse when drug cartels have a massive amount of political power in the United States and especially in Mexico. You just don't realize that, you are to concerned with your own Government having unlimited power. It's false. There are other elements involved that control certain aspects of society that the Government can't control, and is often tainted by. Religion for example.
"They allow poppy farming in Afghanistan for the farmers to make a profit. It's on record."
"You know who else is involved in drug trafficking? Al Qaeda."
LOLOLOL
When the Taliban took over in 1996, they started burning opium fileds and opium production from Afghanistan reached it's lowest ever just before we went in, in October 2001. From that point on, it augmented nearly 10 fold and produces 85-90% of the opium in the world.
And then we "fight" the war on drugs.... HAHAHAHA
Sorry man, you're not only living in lala land but you're an idiot!
So you support the Taliban's totalitarianism? Or, if you use drugs, you support the US drug trafficking.
If people didn't do drugs, or didn't ask the Government to go after people who use them, than this would be a none-issue. Everyone preaches to legalize drugs, but they are some how offended that the Government controls and monitors the drug trade instead of resorting to violence. They could just firebomb all the poppy fields and butcher everyone involved, but you wouldn't be very happy with that. It would make us no better than the Taliban, now would it?
But this isn't an act of terrorism. It's two independent organizations, the FBI (which works internally) and the CIA (which works externally) having two different agendas.
And back to my point: this has nothing to do with 9/11
"Source me. What information?"
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html
Clean up of ground zero eneded may 2002; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_site
911 commission was formed in November 2002: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission
WTC steel sold to China during the clean up: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html
Denied access to thousands of documents and testimonies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_9/11_Commission
Don't bother replying if you'll rebute with a strawman and/or BS excuse...
Clean up is debunked already: http://www.911myths.com/html/recycled_steel.html
Clean up of ground zero eneded may 2002; 911 commission was formed in November 2002, this is straw man. Therefore, 911 was an inside job?
That's not evidence, those are dates. Normally, people finish one job (the investigation) before they start another (the report), instead of trying to work on bot at the same time.
Selling old material to a country that recycles the material is straw man as well. That proves nothing other than China got a good deal on steal purchasing that day, and that New York State wanted the material cleaned up quickly.
9/11 Commission Criticism proves nothing. Bush said he didn't want to make sensitive information public, because they were engaged in a war with the people responsible. Any other conclusion is based on opinion and circumstantial evidence. There is no official whistle blower or source that claims Bush was trying to cover up a bombing.
There's no evidence there. Give me something better. Founder of Wikileaks, Julian Assange, who has released countless documents stated:
"I believe in facts about conspiracies," he says, choosing his words slowly. "Any time people with power plan in secret, they are conducting a conspiracy. So there are conspiracies everywhere. There are also crazed conspiracy theories. It's important not to confuse these two. Generally, when there's enough facts about a conspiracy we simply call this news." What about 9/11? "I'm constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud." What about the Bilderberg conference? "That is vaguely conspiratorial, in a networking sense. We have published their meeting notes."
Nothing has come out from Wikileaks. Nothing at all.
"But since you're so brainwashed by Internet bullshit, you don't care about your own countrymen and completely support Al-Qaeda."
Dude, strawmen!!!! Your last refuge...
"They might VETO the laws that allow indefinite prison sentences for suspected al qaeda members. But you think this is just a big song and dance distraction because you think they just stage all of this to 'trick' you into believing they're against it, but are actually trying to take over the world..."
huh? STRAWMEN, that's all you have...
"He's absolutely correct. You don't want to expose that type of information publicly, especially when you are trying to win the "Hearts and Minds" of the Nicaraguan public."
Yes rationalize it like you want EVEN THOUGH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DRUG TRAFFIC done by a group inside the government to finance illegal arms trade, all that (AGAIN), under the premise of liberating a country (search for Afghanistan and the fact our troops GUARD the opium trade and make sure that the poppy fields are secured, MY COUSIN WAS INVOLVED IN THAT, but I'm sure you know that and you'll come up with yet another BS of an excuse)... LOL
You see that's the kind of of wall I'm debating against, you will find any, and every, excuse to make sure you cling on to your social order. You can't face the truth even when it is in plain sight.
"And as for Bush delaying the commission report, what difference does that make?"
He denied the commission access to crucial physical evidence by delaying the investigation. Not only that, he made once the "investigation" started, to deny access to thousand of physical pieces of evidence, the Report was a farce of an investigation.
You are one strong person to keep debating the obvious with someone who just can't face it. I guess someone has to do it. I don't have the strength.
"He denied the commission access to crucial physical evidence by delaying the investigation. Not only that, he made once the "investigation" started, to deny access to thousand of physical pieces of evidence, the Report was a farce of an investigation."
Source me. What information?
Yes, we all know the Government is involved in drug trafficking. You know who else is involved in drug trafficking? Al Qaeda.
They allow poppy farming in Afghanistan for the farmers to make a profit. It's on record.
It's the only way for 'the Government', and international police, to see who is responsible for doing it. If they completely separate themselves from the trade, they will have zero knowledge or control over it. Government is involved in drug trade, therefore; they caused 9/11? There's no relationship or 'rationalization' between the two.
It's not an "excuse", it's just a "fact". This is the way it is, it's the way things happen. It's not the best option, but until people stop using drugs, it's an available option. It's not the Governments fault that the American population chooses to use drugs. Nothing you say or believe will change the social order.
But this still has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. If you don't like the methods, you can apply for a job in the CIA and come up with a better alternative.
Oh, hey look. Criticism about the FDA is starting to impact travel. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/12/01/peter-goodspeed-screening-airline-passengers-misses-the-real-terrorist-threat-u-s-military-report/
It's almost like the mainstream media isn't out to get us.
Here's another one: http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/01/politics/senate-detainee-policy/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
They might VETO the laws that allow indefinite prison sentences for suspected al qaeda members. But you think this is just a big song and dance distraction because you think they just stage all of this to 'trick' you into believing they're against it, but are actually trying to take over the world...
Oh, hey look. Someone was kidnapped in Pakistan. http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12/01/u-s-development-expert-kidnapped-by-al-qaeda-in-pakistan-terrorist-group-claims/
But since you're so brainwashed by Internet bullshit, you don't care about your own countrymen and completely support Al-Qaeda.
OMG! http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/01/technology/carrier_iq/index.htm It's all a cover up, they've been spying on us the whole time! They're going to know what stocks I watch now! Those bastards!
"Did you even read the commission report? Or are you just going off hear-say on the internet? The 9/11 commission report was the best they had, in the time period they had, with the information available. "
Yes I've read it but most importantly, I've looked at the criticism of it and it is totally justified. The commission was inadequate. It's funny that you mention a time frame because Bush delayed it as much as he could, insisted on hand picking his commissioners, once it was started he gave them a next to impossible time frame to complete it given the amplitude of the event and the complexity of the investigation, and was under funded. Also, they were denied access to thousand of documents and witnesses. So it is far of being "the best they had with the time frame they had, with the info they had"...
BTW who said that "everyone in the white house" knew about Iran/Contra? The point is that Lee Hamilton, then chairman of the House select committee investigating the Iran-contra affair, was shown ample evidence against Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush, but he did not probe their wrongdoing. Why did Hamilton choose not to investigate? In a late 1980s interview aired on PBS 'Frontline,' Hamilton said that he did not think it would have been 'good for the country' to put the public through another impeachment trial. That is the kind of gutless yes man they put in charge of the 9/11 farce when their main con, Henry Kissinger, wouldn't cut it with the public LOL...
Omission, distortions and contradictions of the 9/11 farce: http://911research.wtc7.net/post911/commission/report.html#omissions
"That is the kind of gutless yes man they put in charge of the 9/11 farce when their main con, Henry Kissinger, wouldn't cut it with the public LOL..."
He's absolutely correct. You don't want to expose that type of information publicly, especially when you are trying to win the "Hearts and Minds" of the Nicaraguan public. And guess what? The exposure came out, the Contra's lost the conflict and the country is currently ruled by a dictatorship that still rules the country to this day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaraguan_general_election,_2011
He changed the laws, and rigged the election. It's one of the poorest countries in the world. I just got back from there this winter.
And as for Bush delaying the commission report, what difference does that make? Give me a proven reason why, not an opinion. How do you know that denied witnesses would have made any difference? They could have spent a decade interviewing witnesses.
What you fail to comprehend is that I'm not building any "dream I wish to live in", I don't know what happened but the fact of the matter is that the official story is full of gaping holes and inconcistencies. In short, the official fairy tale is impossible, even more impossible than what you described in your post about elite being all powerfull. Do I believe that elites are all powerfull and such, no, and I don't care; your whole post was about building that strawman. All I care about is that it's proven scientifically, logically, circumstantially, that the official fairy tale can't be true. Who did it? I don't know and frankly it shouldn't matter at this point because we have to get the real facts about what really happened on that day before even beggining to contemplate on who the real masterminds were.
Whether you like it or not, that event got us in two wars which is bankrupting the country, created the Patriot Act and is transfering more and more power to the executive branch, all that based on an investigation that was a self admitted failure. The least that we can do is to the demand a PROPER INDEPENDENT, WELL FUNDED INVESTIGATION BASED ON TRANSPARENCY (that means the investigators having access to ALL the evidence). The best scenario is that it was Al Qaida that did it, the 9/11 commission was right after all and that those "trivial inconcistencies" details were just that "trivial" (which by the way are by no means trivial when those details defy scientific laws).
"Why not apply for a job at the FBI, or CIA? Why not get a law degree, join a political party, run for president?"
I have no interest in politics or in law enforcement (which has become "enforcing the laws of those breaking the law"), I have a career which I am happy with and your last paragraph is full of misconceptions about people that don't buy the official fairy tale, another strawman.
Like I told you earlier, we're both losing our time (mostly me, due to the stubborness of the state of mind you're in) debating this. The truth is in plain sight, people can show it to you but you still will find excuses and wll cling onto anything as long as it doesn't shater your perceived reality. That's fine, you're too comfortable right now good for you but eventually truth will smack you and you will finally pay attention to it.
BTW who said that "everyone in the white house" knew about Iran/Contra? The point is that Lee Hamilton, then chairman of the House select committee investigating the Iran-contra affair, was shown ample evidence against Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush, but he did not probe their wrongdoing. Why did Hamilton choose not to investigate? In a late 1980s interview aired on PBS 'Frontline,' Hamilton said that he did not think it would have been 'good for the country' to put the public through another impeachment trial. That is the kind of gutless yes man they put in charge of the 9/11 farce when their main con, Henry Kissinger, wouldn't cut it with the public LOL...
"The truth is in plain sight, people can show it to you but you still will find excuses and wll cling onto anything as long as it doesn't shater your perceived reality."
If there was an investigation, what evidence would have to be brought forward in order to please you? Even if they found 100 different facts about how the towers came done, and no connections to Bush, would you be happy? Most likely not.
Did you even read the commission report? Or are you just going off hear-say on the internet? The 9/11 commission report was the best they had, in the time period they had, with the information available. Updating it wouldn't make any significant difference to law or wars that have already been started.
Yes, 9/11 did drag the U.S. into two occupations. Yes, 9/11 passed the Patriot Act. But look at the purpose and intention of the attack, as per the "mastermind of the plot":
"Sheikh Mohammed said that the purpose of the attack on the Twin Towers was to 'wake the American people up.' Sheikh Mohammed said that if the target would have been strictly military or government, the American people would not focus on the atrocities that America is committing by supporting Israel against the Palestinian people and America's self-serving foreign policy that corrupts Arab governments and leads to further exploitation of the Arab/Muslim peoples."
And the result? They created paranoia and a belief that 9/11 was done by the U.S. Government and Zionist Jews, renewed focus on the Middle East and countless lives lost fighting against an invisible enemy.
The reality of the situation smacks us all the time, you just don't really notice because the evil Patriot Act keeps watch on any chatter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Blast-Hits-Nigeria-Police-Headquarters-123996399.html
Maybe it's time you stop pointing the finger at yourself and see that the 'enemy' actually exists. Terrorism is a very real threat, and it affects our comfortable day to day activities.
Don't waste your time with these people, their logic is highly flawed. They see some gap in understanding, and they fill it with anything that seems to fit. It's just like the God of the gaps fallacy when religious people fill a gap of knowledge with unproven claims. They can't stand not having all the answers, so they are willing to trick their mind into thinking that any answer is appropriate and valid. The video of this lady proves absolutely nothing, but for them this does not matter. They are too lazy to do real research. They just want to fill the gaps at all cost. With anything. Some of these guys fill in the gaps with Reptilian overlords for Pete's sake! One guy on these boards is using the idea of implanted mind controlling chips. Come one!
There is also a woman who reportedly exited through the hole in the pentagon and saw no aircraft debris, or personal effects, even though a passport of the terrorist on a plane was found in perfect condition at one of the sites. Now that is just too convenient, dont you think?
Dude, there's pictures of the plane. It didn't exit, it's made of aluminum. I just posted a link that shows a plane clearly hit the Pentagon. But one woman has you convinced? In the whole building, and all the clean up crew, all the witnesses who saw the plane fly over head, only one woman has you convinced?
Come on, man.
Dude, your photo does more for conspiracy side than not... Yes, a plane is essentially a tin can, but there is not even a mark where the wings, tail, or engine should have hit. Look for them...they are not there. The engines at least should have left a dent...wings are reinforced to support the weight and should have left marks, but they are not there....if the nose down angle took the wings to the bottom of the building, the engines should have dug trenches in the earth outside, but they are not there...
Dude. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTNRkb7AaQk
There's plane pieces everywhere. It exploded. People cleaned up the dead bodies of the passengers. The hole with no wing marks is the blow out on the back, from internal explosions in the building.
Sorry man, a plane hit it. It wasn't a missile or they would have said "It was a missile" on day one.
Sorry, but an engine is a hugely heavy and compact mass, versus the tin can of the airframe. I think the force of the engine would have been greater per square inch than the hollow body of the fuselage but the fuselage managed to pass out the back while the engines didnt even make it all the way in, and the reinforced wings leave no mark...
You want people to say you are right, but I will continue to say you could be wrong because where are the bloody wings? They did not sheer off, or there would have been evidence of them, and they did not break through the concrete. Even at the WTC you can clearly see where the wings went through the concrete and steel, so where is the hole, like the holes created at WTC, or where are the wings??
Let me know when you find them, or find the hole they created...
You would think... you think, but it didn't? it didn't work out that way.
You can see the f*cking plane! YOU CAN SEE IT! What more evidence do you want? There's little pieces of plane all over the yard, you can see the landing gear. You will continue to say people are wrong because it's easier to find people that agree with you on the internet, than it is just admit that you're wrong. There was no missile, no explosives. It was a terrorist attack.
People lost their lives in the plane, they died. There are dead people. There's 0 evidence that a missile hit, or that there was a bomb planted. None.
I want to see wings, or metal that was previously wings, or a long horizontal hole where wings went in the building, or maybe just a little damage to the facade like something struck it where the wings should have been...
Im not looking for agreement from anyone, and most assuredly not you in particular, but am simply pointing out that there is less damage and debris than there should be... People are free to make up their own minds about what that means, if anything.
"I want to see wings, or metal that was previously wings, or a long horizontal hole where wings went in the building, or maybe just a little damage to the facade like something struck it where the wings should have been"
why? because you think you should be able to see it? never mind that you know nothing about air crashes, science, engineering, physics or anything that would lead you to believe there should or should not be these things to see....you just want to see it. it's ridiculous.
the area the plane hit collapsed a short time after the crash. so the idea that you can't see the hole or wing marks is bullshit because there are no clear photos of the wall before it collapsed (too much smoke and water from firehoses), so when you look at the photos after the fire was out you aren't even looking at the wall that took the airplane strike. very few truthtards even know this simple fact. you assholes read alex jones and watch loose change, think they are legit sources of information, decide you WANT to believe in this nonsense, and then all these important facts become minor details you ignore or avoid facing. you want this to be an inside job. why?
You assume a lot about what i know or dont know to start your response. Since you begin on a error to make a point, your response has no validity.
if you expect to see a cartoon-like punch out from an aluminum airplane on a reinforced concrete building, then I do know what you do and don't know. and, on this topic, you don't know shit.
if you expect to see a hole in a wall that has collapsed, so there isn't a picture of that wall to see in the first place, then I do know that your knowledge of this event and this part of it in particular is less than shit.
and since you avoided all the details and facts and whined like a twat about my correct and logic-based assumptions about you, then I know that you are just another ignorant truthtard who is completely full of shit or too dumb to know it.
i dont know shit? You dont even know there is a picture! You are funny!!
There is no "Less than there should be", there shouldn't be any. No one should fly a plane into a building. But this is the result, this is exactly what happened. And if it happens again, the results will be similar. Look, people saw the bodies, they saw the black box, they saw the wreckage. It's all there, without a doubt. The whole conspiracy is based off a few select photo's, and disregards all the other information that clearly proves it was a plane.
I don't understand your perspective; what more evidence do you want for a plane? It exploded on impact. This is all the evidence left behind. It clearly shows there was a plane. If you don't believe it, that's simply because you don't want to believe it. That's your choice. Conspiracy is like a drug, you choose to do it. Put this belief down and walk away from it, it's a trap. There's no end, there's no explanation, it's just invalid claim after invalid claim in an endless cycle that blames everything from space lasers to religious ceremonies with Satan.
FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"
From the PM article.
Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."
Please look at photos of WTC where planes entered building, keeping in mind that there was concrete and steel, not just glass. A mass at high speed exerts force that should have left, at the least, a very distinctive mark on the facade of the building. The entire analysis of flowing metal is ridiculous given that you point out recognizable parts and state the black boxes were found intact...
You qoute a person who says the opposite of a person I mentioned, after ridiculing me for mentioning her, even though I went to the trouble to qualify her statement as a claim and not a fact. There are educated people who claim global warming is a conspired hoax, so having credentials does not necessarily make a persons testimony valid.
Where did this guy see wing marks? On the collapsed facade? Look at the photo of the building and point them out. You cant because they are not there, or you would have done so. The junction of the wing and the fuselage is heavily reinforced, as are the section of the wing that holds the engine because landing puts additional force on that part of the aircraft... It should have left a line of damage from the fuselage hole to what you say are the engine holes, but that damage is not there.
"Please look at photos of WTC where planes entered building, keeping in mind that there was concrete and steel, not just glass. A mass at high speed exerts force that should have left, at the least, a very distinctive mark on the facade of the building."
there WAS a distinct mark on the facade of the WTC. what the hell are you talking about?
or is your point that since there was one on the towers, there MUST be one on the pentagon? if so, you can't be serious.
Its the funny one again... Now you have demonstrated you cant follow a conversation, or your reading comprehansion is not so great. You crack me up, though!
Here's a perfect example of the quotes being used out of context as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1wQ2BJsgx0&feature=related
Are you really that high?
"Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. 'There was a big boom,' he said. 'Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled "Did you see that?" Nobody could believe it.'"
"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
"Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. 'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'"
"Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. 'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'"
"Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. 'There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud,' he said."
"We were the only people, we think, who saw it live," Dan Creed said. He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. "It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said. "I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," - Ahwatukee Foothill News
Gary Bauer former Presidential candidate, "I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn�t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." Massachusetts News
Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building," Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief Sean Boger said. "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." dcmilitary.com November 16, 2001
"The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific. It was obvious that some of the victims we found had no time to react. The distance the firefighters had to travel down corridors to reach the fires was a problem. With only a good 25 minutes of air in their SCBA bottles, to save air they left off their face pieces as they walked and took in a lot of smoke," Captain Defina said. Captain Defina was the shift commander [of an aircraft rescue firefighters crew.] NFPA Journal November 1, 2001
I'm not an expert in structures, but it seems obvious a plane would not create a cartoon-like outline of itself upon impact with a concrete building. The wings are obviously much less strong than the body of the plane. It seems rather natural that by the time the plane reaches deep enough for the wings to hit, the weakness of the wings plus the weakened body because of the impact would make it so that the wings basically clip off. And, in our particular case, one of the wings hit the ground as the plane was approaching.
Faithntruth is only interested in the truth as long as it is part of some kind of conspiracy theory. Even though there is 0% proof that a bomb hit, and near 100% proof that a plane hit, he still prefers to hold on the the bomb idea; not because it seems more correct, but because it feeds his imagination of a deep governmental plot. He wants that plot to exist, more than he wants the truth.
It would be interesting for him to show us photos of big objects which have created cartoon-like holes upon colliding with static concrete walls. Perhaps he could show us the photo of a car crash where we can see the outline of the car in the building? Perhaps he could test the idea on a smaller scale himself?
You have no right in assessing my interests in truth since you dont know me you have no idea of what interests me, what my beliefs are, nor why I believe what I do. You dont know my background, my knowledge base or experience, nor my talents. I spent most of my adult life working in aerospace. I do know about the structural requirements, and have seen crashed aircraft. I also have a grasp of the physics of force, as well as aircraft design.
What I do know is that you refuse a lot of evidence that it was a plane, and claim it was a bomb without any evidence whatsoever. That's very strange.
Look at this video. Your friends the truthers do not even believe planes hit the Towers. They claim it was a missile with holograms creating the wings. How ridiculous is that? Why would the government go to so much trouble? Why not just hire some terrorists and hit the buildings with planes? Why take the risk of faking it then having it leak. What about the people on board who made phone calls etc...? Give me a break. Your logic is absolutely fried my friend. You are not using the scientific method. You're caught up in your dream and no matter what evidence is presented you'll always think it was a missile. You are not interested by the truth at all. You only want to be with the in crowd of conspiracy theorists. You have a disease. You've been brainwashed like a cult follower. Shape up before it's too late.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5NNh6WnVZo&feature=related
Nice hologram by the way. Lol! You guys are nuts! Let's just have a party and do the Reptilian Dance.
I never never ever once said it was anything... I pointed out what i see as problematic. In trying to slander and belittle me, you simply expose yourself as having an agenda. You have called me names, insinuated I must believe in aliens, that I am brainwashed, attempted to associate me with those who hold fringe beliefs, and called my sanity into question. These are the tactics of one who has no nothing of value to say, yet refuses to exit the conversation. Do feel an overwhelming desire to win? To have someone say you are right? Or do you just love your own words, or perhaps feeling superior to others?
You have input nothing of value, nor have you even managed to raise my blood pressure and you show yourself to rely on the lowest form of debate, so whatever your goal here you have failed.
My agenda is to kill the disease which has infected so many people today. I never hide this agenda. This disease is known as the conspiracy theory disease. It's extremely dangerous and it destroys all logic in ones mind.
What is the purpose of this webpage then? It offers no evidence, only the video of some crazy lady. As a serious conspiracy theorist who uses the scientific method, you should be the first to condemn this posting for adding more nonsense to 9/11. You should demand the poster provide proof of his claims and the lady's claims.
You should also be condemning your fellow truthers when they talk of nonsense like holograms instead of real planes. This just hurts your case. Be scientific and criticize those who hurt your movement.
This site has rules, and one of them is no 9/11 conspiracy theory nonsense. The poster is breaking the rules, so I am here to post as many degrading pictures as I can of conspiracy theorists. If you don't like it. That's fine. Go post in a forum that welcomes your conspiracy theories. This one doesn't.
I am condemning you for low value input, low value debate tactics, and low value fall back position of citing forum rules. The moderators will delete the thread when they get around to it, so why not just ignore it? Because it seems you are really here so can slander people every opportunity you get while derailing any conversation you can. You call the lady crazy: are you in a position to make that determination? Do you have a PhD or PsyD? Even a Masters in psychology? No, you are just voicing an opinion, while speaking derisively of anyone whose opinion does not coincide with yours. And for some reason you feel you have this great authority to proclaim value judgements of others opinions. Only authoritarians feel the need to make to people think like themselves.
You are not interesting, or even amusing, and your reliance on weak tactics is tiresome.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9a/2Twin_Towers_in_fire_-_911-_Fema_picture.jpg
This video proves, without a doubt, how much bullshit the whole theory is based on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YXzjAKJQOg
It's just absolute crap, with no backing, no logic and no facts. It's literally based on lies, and it's purpose is to gain your attention and take your money.
It would have been easier for the Shadow Government to just fly a plane into the Pentagon than it would have been to blow up a bomb or a design a plane shaped missile, maybe at the same time, than spread plane pieces from a "airplane wrecking yard" all over, take pictures, than bring in "experts" who are all part of the inside job,
A shit load easier just to crash a plane into it.
Is that supposed to be a cartoon-like hole of a plane? Had I not previously known a plane hit that building, I would have never had guessed it was a plane. Remember that the plane on the Pentagon hit the ground before flying in the building. I didn't impact straight on at full speed like the planes on the towers.
The question remains. Even if you believe it was not a plane, why do you automagically believe it was a bomb? Where is your proof. You seem to be demanding an amazing amount of proof for the plane theory. Even if plane parts were discovered and eye witness reports explain that it was a plane and that other planes crashed in other buildings that day you are not satisfied with that evidence. Fine. But, then, why are you satisfied it was a bomb without one shred of evidence. This seems highly contradictory. Don't you think? At best you should say nobody knows at this point what hit the building. At best.
How do you explain the plane debris and the bodies found? You think they were planted there by the government?
So, you're saying it's nothing more than a conspiracy theory. Just assumptions with no proof. A nice science fiction story.
Her story is just inconsistent, or she was just saying "yes" to every conspiracy question she was asked. That's all. She didn't say anything that wasn't already on the internet.
Next witness please! Can I ask you a question:
Why are Americans so fond of conspiracy theories? Why do these people automatically believe anyone who agrees with them, then automatically try to discredit those who don't? Where's the scientific inquiry?
When I imagine conspiracy theory aficionados, I imagine young pimpled geeks in their mom's trailer thinking they have a very special position in the world because they believe they can understand all the intricacies and lies of the government from their old PCs. They are like amateur MatLock's. "Look mom! I just figured out why the government is lying to us." I find them hilarious! Oh! How I fear the lizard shape-shifters...
you haven't interacted with many truthers, have you? it isn't just americans. there are tons of Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, europeans and (of course) middle easterners who buy into this absurd truth movement bullshit.
Fair enough. I'm used to using Canadian forums, and this whole thing of conspiracy theories is not nearly as prominent on those sites.
I wouldn't laugh at the growing conspiracy movements, though. I would take it very seriously. Take three elements, such as a financial melt down, a new middle eastern war, and a revolt against the federal government. It won't take long before conspiracy 'theory' becomes 'fact' in every U.S. history text book. Other countries do it all the time.
Conspiracy theorists don't search for the truth. They don't use the scientific method. The only thing they find is nonsensical claims. I do take them seriously. It's a mind disease that is spreading like fire and killing the minds of young Americans.
Yes, I agree. I've gotten myself stuck in a few of them before. Alex Jones is terrible for brain washing. I think there is a certainly amount of unnecessary global uncertainty that the media is feeding off right now.
The "Alternate Media" basically takes those stories, and spins them to fit a specific conspiracy. Even RT is terrible for putting up opinion pieces that are more entertainment than reality. And I think that attitude scares investors, and the Government, which results in less risky financial transactions and tighter homeland security.
What's your favorite conspiracy theory? Tell me yours, and I'll tell you mine ;-)
I'm going to go with the Global Elite Bankers trying to break down the system in order to create one currency to be used world wide. That one is really hard to disprove.
They have the burden of proof. We don't need to disprove their claims. They haven't proved anything in the first place.
OR
Nothing compares with Nazi UFO's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_UFOs
Accounts appear from as early as 1950, likely inspired by historical German development of specialized engines such as Viktor Schauberger's "Repulsine" around the time of WWII.
That is pretty funny! Damn conspiracy theorists... Always on the ball.
Don't forget the 1962 Mars Landing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS-zfct1_BQ
There's three good unsolved mysteries that I found as well - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom_broadcast_signal_intrusion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloop
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVB-76
It's about empowerment. I think some people just suffer from chronic misinformation syndrome, where they continuously follow down the road of conspiracies with no end.
I think with this group, there's a part of them that wants to feel enlightened and mental empowered. Like a counter-culture. It justifies any mistakes they made in life, and gives them someone to push blame on. You can spend a lot of time making links between unrelated events and people, and there are some very heavy conspiracies on the internet.
Personally, I blame the internet right now. I feel like it creates a gap between human beings, rather than bringing them together. Even though we type and communicate online constantly, we lost that human interaction and we act more like machines. We only put online what we want people to see, and we hide from everything that can't be seen. I think this is partial to blame, because when you read about all the evils of Bush, Cheney and the Illumanti, you forget that they are real live human beings. You never see video of them taking a shit, or eating dinner and talking about foot ball. It just seems like they're always crawling around in secret buildings, holding secret meetings with aliens and discussing plans for world domination.
I think that in part explains why OWS failed as well. When you took all the online support for the movement, and put it into actual human beings, you could physically see how imperfect the union became.
I do agree it's a form of easy empowerment, but I don't think it has anything to do with losing contact with other humans. It's just lack of logic and a misunderstanding of the scientific method. The Internet helps spread this mind disease, but I don't think it's the cause. There is Internet everywhere in the world, but conspiracy theorists seem particularly numerous in America. I think it's a lack of proper education and and a religious problem as well. There whole research method is upside down. They start with their conclusion, then try to fit the "facts" to make it work. It's a big business for those that come up with these theories and the people who follow them are like people following a guru in a religious sect. They never question the almighty source who they consider is like God. I'm going to shape shift now and return to my secret dwelling near the Earth's core. See you around....
when you're busy being entertained 24 hours a day, who can be bothered with facts or research?
True.
Here, a photo of a conspiracy theorist preparing his server stack so he can better archive his "evidence". A real American MatLock:
Nice to meet you Glaucon!
Nice to meet you too.
I guess you fixed your PC before you go to bed.
Everybody here knows you are a terrible person!
It seems like you did. Everybody posts their ideas. Is this guy your favorite intellectual?
LMFAO very cool!
“Who is Ron.Paul?”
The movements opening line “Who is Ron.Paul?” becomes an expression of helplessness and despair at the current state of the fictionalized world. Before finding the real Ron.Paul, Johnny Public hears a number of legends of Paul. After eventually joining it's cause, we learn that all of the stories have an element of truth to them. Johnny Public named their line the “Ron.Paul Line” which surprised many people. They asked “Who is Ron.Paul?” to which they replied, “A name I’m tired of hearing.”
The Paul character has been compared to various iconic figures from literature and history. In the world itself, it is compared with Prometheus from the Greek myths. In contrast to Prometheus, who suffered for bringing a great benefit to mankind, Paul refuses to suffer and withdraws the benefit instead. Our people sees similarities to the figures of Adam’s and Jefferson to the Greek legends.
Paul is not necessarily intended to be a rounded or realistic character; he has been called “more a symbol than a person” and “two-dimensional.” The people describe Paul as “more icon than character.” Our own notes indicate that we expected liberty to have “[n]o progression” and “no inner conflict” because it was “integrated (indivisible) and perfect.”
Paul stands for the philosophy of liberty, it will be very easy to see if he turns from liberty…
Add, edit or interpret, use at your will.
Now www.Occupywallst.org censor ...
“Who is Ron Lawl?”
The movements opening line “Who is Ron Lawl?” becomes an expression of helplessness and despair at the current state of the fictionalized world. Before finding the real Ron Lawl, Johnny Public hears a number of legends of Paul. After eventually joining his cause, we learn that all of the stories have an element of truth to them. Johnny Public named their line the “Ron Lawl Line” which surprised many people. They asked “Who is Ron Lawl?” to which they replied, “A name I’m tired of hearing.” [edit] Interpretation
The Paul character has been compared to various iconic figures from literature and history. In the world itself, it is compared with Prometheus from the Greek myths. In contrast to Prometheus, who suffered for bringing a great benefit to mankind, Paul refuses to suffer and withdraws the benefit instead. Our people sees similarities to the figures of Adam’s and Jefferson to the Greek legends.
Paul is not necessarily intended to be a rounded or realistic character; he has been called “more a symbol than a person” and “two-dimensional.” The people describe Paul as “more icon than character.” Our own notes indicate that we expected liberty to have “[n]o progression” and “no inner conflict” because it was “integrated (indivisible) and perfect.”
Paul stands for the philosophy of liberty, it will be very easy to see if he turns from liberty…
LAWLS
seriously- why do some people weave together little bits of truth and false to present an undeniable conspiracy?
Its almost a personality disorder.
I wonder if these are disaffected religious _ who are desperately looking for another set of "facts" to support a different delusion.
I found most of the same info - but in addition to getting the conspiracy nuts' garbage, I went to Wikipedeia - the closest to reliable facts.
Not only is ther no statement about her working for the CIA - every other google source used the term "CIA asset". Then I Googled Palerie Plame - no site used that term!
wiki}
Conspiracy theorists don't do research, they just believe whatever other conspiracy theorists say. Hey, they have a women on video saying the "truth". That's good enough for them! Wait... she brings no evidence at all to the table...Bah... so what.
Nice to meet you T!
Yes, I believe everyone here knows Glaucon is Thrasymaque, and Thrasymaque is Glaucon. It's not a secret.
Please don't post ugly pictures! This is not conspiracy theory. It is a fact seeking journalism. Support your brave fellow citizens. Her life is already at risk.
There is no fact seeking. You believe her without looking for any evidence. She's just a nut talking in a video. Give me a break!
There are many truthers in the army, navy, government. There are million of American online seeking for the truth, speaking for the truth. This is not a conspiracy theory. You don't know anything about geopolitics or false flag operations. This is part of what governments do. Powerful people seek more money and power and they don't care if it leads to war. Working classes kill each other and clear the area for the rich to play kings.
Be aware that T works for conspiracy theorists!
Gl@ucon : You protest so ardently that it made me watch the excellent yet shocking film again and post : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Lindauer ;-)
The words in your topsy-turvy yellow triangle are usually used by The MSM & TPTB and are generally employed as an invitation NOT to think or analyse ;-(
Suppose we'll just have to read her book and its footnotes ... Finally does your triangle above also allude to "The Official Conspiracy Theory" (ie.The 9/11 Commission Report {which has NO mention of WTC Bldg.7}!!!) or is it only reserved for anyone who may subscribe to any variation on the theme of the following 'Meme Equation' :
9/!! - NORAD + Thermite x (WTC1 + WTC2) + {WTC7 x WTF!!!} + [PentAgon - Plane + GlobalHawk / Missile] + UA93 - CSI = Coup d'Etat ... Q.E.D. !
Ho-Hmmm ... et ad iudiciummm .. xx .
Hey !!! How did you know that !! And how did you get my photo ?~~{;-p
You remind me of my friend that thinks the world is going to end in 2012!
Cuban missile crisis, nuclear war was close. Cuba and America were aggressive enough, Russia called it out. It was close already in the past.
That was in the early 60s what that got to do with 2012
The point is it might end anytime, you never know! There are risks!
I would not sit around worrying that the world is going to end, and if it is what can you do. NOTHING! So there is no point in worrying.
It is not only about the possible risk, which smartest person on the planet, Stephen Hawking is worried. Without wars, without sending countries to stone age, without wasting resources for destruction, we can use labor of mankind to create better societies socially and economically. There is enough for everybody on the planet and human population would stabilize without destruction and poverty. There is too much to do.
Somewhere in the Universe.. a world WILL end.. ever think of if that way, huh?
If we survive and let future generations travel the universe, that would be awesome. They would look back and see us as worst kind of monkey kind who played with nukes and came close to destroying it all. It was going to be a lonely galaxy, but thanks to some free spirited brave people planet survived. If everybody cheated and lied for power the planet would be destroyed by now.
I'm sure at least one type of bacteria is stuck to something we sent to mars.
A world ends everyday. Just as a new one is born.
There aren't many like this one. I know we are a monkey kind but we are still very luck we exist in such a way with some kind of mind. I will not let sociopath decide our fate.
Lol! Yes, the truth! Conspiracy theorists are the funniest. When someone says something they agree with, they pounce on it instantly and say - "Ah ah! Look the truth!". When someone says something they don't agree with, they pounce on it instantly and say - "Ah ah! Look, another one who is trying to cover up the truth!". In both cases, a proper scientific investigation is nowhere to be found. Absolutely hilarious! Of course, they will come here and down vote my little investigation because they can't accept criticism. Funny lads indeed.
This women never worked for the CIA. Here's a short paragraph from Wikepedia:
Susan Lindauer was deemed MENTALLY UNFIT. lol!
Putting lame witnesses on the stand just makes you case look worse than it already is.
Whistleblowers are OFTEN falsely discredited.
Also, it appears Lindauer wanted to go to trial, this wasn't a way for her to avoid trial.
So why was she stopped? Who would benefit from her NOT taking the stand in court?
She was under indictment for 5 years without charge and then all of a sudden she was mentally unfit?
By law a trial cannot proceed if the defendant is deemed unfit. You benefit. I benefit. We all do. Trials cost a lot of money for taxpayers.
What are you talking about. She was charged from day one!
Even if you are right, this is not proof of anything. Zero proof. You just have a woman talking on camera. Where is her proof. Ziltch! She's absolutely useless for your case!
I watched the video. She looks mentally unfit, and, even if she isn't her accusations are all based on hearsay. She provides no proof. Just a nice conspiracy theory. Useless. Next witness please.
She blew her whistle after being discredited.
TM@que : Nice last line in your energetic 'subjective (dis?!)information' campaign. After your attempts at deconstruction and discreditation here, the only course of action left to serious searchers will be to read her book, called (rather ironically given your own 'ardour' here!) "Extreme Prejudice" and also to analyse her footnotes ... ad iudiciummm .. x .
You people are attacking the truth many people already know by posting bad images on the page. That is already a manipulative behavior.
There is no truth without evidence.
Yes, my goal is to manipulate the minds of the people who come here. I want to save them from becoming mentally ill like yourself. Yes, it's true, I consider conspiracy theorists as being mentally ill. The logic chip is burnt beyond repair.
If you don't want to be attacked post in a conspiracy theory forum. This place is free for all. Actually, you're not even supposed to spread your nonsense here as per the forum rules.
Every body figured out you are mentally unfit!
It's just that simple? Thanks for clearing that up!