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Forum Post: Carter called it

Posted 4 years ago on July 21, 2013, 12:41 p.m. EST by StillPoor (-18)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

That's really icing on the cake. But is also affirmation that the government is no longer legit. And guess what? We didn't need an army of scared ass posers behind masks to make it happen. We only needed a few brave men to tell the truth, and place their names and faces behind it. The next forum needs to require the same from every member. A movement without integrity and accountability is just a mob of angry assholes.


I dare you to say something about my source and say you are for freedom in the same breath, go ahead, do it.



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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

This story is unreported in most US media, MSM or otherwise as Jimmy Carter's honesty no longer serves TPTB so thanx for this forum-post and link. An alternate report of the same is :

All the reports of Jimmy Carter's comments originate from Der Spiegel's report - copied here below, using Google Translate :

''NSA affair : Ex-President Carter condemned U.S. snooping'' :

The Obama administration tried to placate Europe's anger over spying programs. Not as ex-President Jimmy Carter: The Democrat attacked the U.S. intelligence sharp. The disclosure by whistleblowers Snowden was "useful."

Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter was in the wake of the NSA Spähskandals criticized the American political system. "America has no functioning democracy," Carter said Tuesday at a meeting of the "Atlantic Bridge" in Atlanta.

Previously, the Democrat had been very critical of the practices of U.S. intelligence. "I think the invasion of privacy has gone too far," Carter told CNN. "And I think that is why the secrecy was excessive." Overlooking the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden said Carter, whose revelations were long "likely to be useful because they inform the public." Carter has repeatedly warned that the United States sharply declined due to excessive restriction of civil rights, their moral authority. Last year he wrote in an article in the "New York Times", new U.S. laws "never before seen breach our privacy by the government" allowed the.

Carter was the 39th President of the United States, who ruled from 1977 until 1981. During his tenure, he tried to align U.S. foreign policy that is more about human rights - after his retirement from active politics for his humanitarian work, he received the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize .

In Atlanta, he also expressed his overall pessimistic about the global situation. There is currently no reason for him to be optimistic, Carter said, referring to the situation in Egypt, which had fallen into a military dictatorship. He also lamented the growing political divide in the United States, the excessive influence of money in U.S. election campaigns and the confusing American election rules. The ex-president whose "Carter Center" operates worldwide including election monitoring, announced skeptical whether the United States, the standard that applies when reviewing the Center of elections might be fulfilled. As a bright spot, however, Carter called the triumph of modern technology that would have caused some of the countries of the Arab Spring of democratic progress. Exactly these developments but are endangered by the NSA Spähskandal as major U.S. Internet platforms such as Google or Facebook lose credibility worldwide.

Furthermore, for a more substantive analysis, please also consider :

Finally, The Judicial Branch (eg. SCOTUS re. 'Citizens United') & The Legislative Branch are B-S too !!!

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 4 years ago

''One of the worst myths Democratic partisans love to tell themselves - and everyone else - is that the GOP refuses to support President Obama no matter what he does. Like its close cousin - the massively deceitful inside-DC grievance that the two parties refuse to cooperate on anything - it's hard to overstate how false this Democratic myth is. When it comes to foreign policy, war, assassinations, drones, surveillance, secrecy, and civil liberties, President Obama's most stalwart, enthusiastic defenders are often found among the most radical precincts of the Republican Party.

''Perhaps the most significant and enduring change will be the erosion of the trite, tired prism of partisan simplicity through which American politics has been understood over the last decade. What one sees in this debate is not Democrat v. Republican or left v. right. One sees authoritarianism v. individualism ; fealty to The National Security State v. a belief in the need to constrain and check it ; insider Washington loyalty v. outsider independence.

''That's why the only defenders of the NSA at this point are the decaying establishment leadership of both political parties whose allegiance is to the sprawling permanent power faction in Washington and the private industry that owns and controls it. They're aligned against long-time liberals, the new breed of small government conservatives, the ACLU and other civil liberties groups, many of their own members, and increasingly the American people, who have grown tired of, and immune to, the relentless fear-mongering.

''The sooner the myth of "intractable partisan warfare" is dispelled, the better. The establishment leadership of the two parties collaborate on far more than they fight. That is a basic truth that needs to be understood. As John Boehner joined with Nancy Peolsi, as Eric Cantor whipped support for the Obama White House, as Michele Bachmann and Peter King stood with Steny Hoyer to attack NSA critics as Terrorist-Lovers, yesterday was a significant step toward accomplishing that.''Excerpted from :

If anyone gives two shits about US deMOCKERYcy they'll closely read this article, explore some of the embedded corroborative links, join some dots, shudder & keep their wits sharp and uncluttered with b-s.

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by Illuminated (5) 4 years ago

The outrage and investigation tells me our democracy is very much functional, acting exactly as it should to amend problems like these.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 4 years ago


[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 4 years ago

There is this bipartisan amendment, proposed by Representative Justin Amash (Republican, Michigan), which would forbid the NSA from expending any of its funds on the bulk collection of Americans' records, including our phone records up for a vote in Congress I believe today. It will be interesting to see how that goes. That would lend precedence. That would be a start.

Suggest calling or writing your representative



[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 4 years ago

Snowden isn't a hero or a villan, he's just the messenger. Same with Carter.


[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago
[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Your precious Democrats sold your jobs down the rive a long time ago.

And yet you beg for their mercy, like a poor desperate surf, to save you from the evil GOP.

PS- The other side is doing the same thing, and they are just as blinded.

Wake up. Stop being a pawn.

U. R. Not. A. Loan.

U R Not Alone.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 4 years ago

You know, as it is, I plan to get my right to vote back--in fact that's what I'm doing in Illie (Illinois) right now--and the first vote I cast will be a throwaway vote. I'm voting Green Party. Your rhetoric helped me come to that decision. Neither party is progressing my interests, so neither party will receive my first vote. If Carter and StillPoor ( formally Richerd Gates, ) are correct, Democracy in America is a sham, I might as well vote for what I want and not against what I despise the most.


[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

"With repelicans gone "

The left has been pronouncing that to their sheep for a very very long time.

The right tells their flock of sheep the same thing.

The sheep all line up against each other while both rob you all blind and have dinner with each other.

Great plan scooby.


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Passing more lies?

Would you have a link to prove this?

Or do you just shoot lies out of your mouth without proof again?

Did you find this lie on Alex Jones, or just the link to it?

Amazingly enough you actually got your posse to vote up a LIE.

Good job.

For a GOP pawn.

For a guy on loan from prisonplanet.

You should try not buying Koch brothers products.

[-] 1 points by AlphonsoGrande (3) 4 years ago

Please wake up. You're drugged on Democrateine. Obama is not your friend. Please repeat in the mirror every morning - "Obama is not my friend."

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Neither are you, obviously.

You are infinitely worse.

You're an issue free puppet.

An absolute Pinocchio.

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

HuffPo: "Obama's move is a brazen display of contempt for the Occupy Wall Street movement's calls for jobs, economic, and environmental justice as well as human rights. These trade agreements achieve a rare trifecta of progressive punching: it's hard to imagine a single initiative that at one time could so infuriate anti-corporate activists, labor unions, and environmentalists at the very moment that these disparate movements are finally finding solidarity and support in the streets."

More Dem and Rep loving free trade deals: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-hurowitz/obama-free-trade_b_1003846.html

What was ironic about this one, is that it got passed as there was literally thousands of people protesting int eh streets.

Talk about a slap in teh face!! Right?

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Here's a vote on your beloved GATT. Blew the doors off of international finances:


[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

HEre's a vote on NAFTA in the house:


One point for Tiki!!

Proving corruption in the Democrat and Republican party is about as easy as it gets.

Would you like some more links?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

I suppose you're far too young to remember, but NAFTA was a done deal before he took office. a deal done by Reagan/Bush.

As far as GATT?

It was deal put together by your own beloved Koch brothers. If you would have listened to the Greg Pallast interview done by Lee Camp, you would have known that, but you never speak against your beloved Koch brothers, so you didn't pay any attention to it.

Now I'll ask you again to prove your lies.

You have pretty much echoed the right wing line on everything to do with Detroit and the auto industry do far, so I don't expect you to offer a word of truth.

It's not in your trick bag. That kind of thing isn't posted at prisonplanet.

Just love of libe(R)tarians.

Here's some more proof on libe(R)tarians for you to ignore.

Since ignoring things is the key to ignorance, I expect to remain as such.



[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

GATT was put together by the Koch Brothers- true.

Hordes of Democrats voted for it- True.

Hordes of Republicans voted for it- True.

Where are we in disagreement here?

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Hmmm, looks to me like more Democrats voted yea than Republicans on GATT. Dayum, how did that happen? ;-)

Shooz: "Since ignoring things is the key to ignorance, I expect to remain as such."

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

The proof is all around, and I get slammed repeatedly by a few here, one blatantly cursing up a storm at me, for simply posting the votes.

The only thing these loser politicians should be tied to is their votes, or their lack there of.

The rest is just MSM fluff.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Yea, rabid partisans have a way of being selective about the facts they deem important.

The only thing that should matter is who voted for what, I definitely agree. That wouldn't bode too well for either side. It's all a game in Washington and most people don't see it. It's too easy to rig.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

You ignored the links, as usual.

Libe(R)tarians ( Koch's and friends) are whats fucking up EVERYTHING.

Does that answer your question?

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago


It's time we all stop making excuses, stop defending corruption, and start demanding to stop getting screwed and jobs sent elsewhere.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

You still ignored the links.

So it's really you who is defending the corruption.

Just like you defend "right to work", all the while refusing to understand it's relationship to what's happening to jobs all around you.

Numbed by Alex Jones, is what you are.

Just plain numb.

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago


One comment? One comment on your Democrats shoveling your jobs right out of from under you, with the Republicans, down the river?

Just one?

There are certain things you refuse to admit. One is that voting for either is a mistake that this country has been making for a long time.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Still ignoring the links.

Yep. You are.

You've been doing it under various nameplates for over a year now.

Are you affiliated with these guys?

You sure do talk like you are.


[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Most people in the country hate Republicans and democrats and politicians alike.

Im sorry that you manage to be suckered by one of them.

Good luck.

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

It was a vote tally for the House. No one mentioned Clinton. Even though he did sign it.

Look at the votes.

Stop lying and avoiding the truth.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

I was alive and paying attention back then, it was pushed to the limit by the GOP, and at the time Reaganomics was still ascending.

You lied about everything so you have no room to call ANYONE else a liar.

I am growing so tiered of your constant insults.

Yuo have yet to stop calling others names.

You should leave, It's my belief you've been banned at least once.

I'm sure the reason was valid, based on your communication skills. You should take your insults somewhere else.

[-] 1 points by AlphonsoGrande (3) 4 years ago

Occupy is a protest against injustice. All injustice, not only injustice from the Republicans. There's no reason for you to protect the Democrats. They are a right wing party too, doing all kinds of damage just like the Republicans do. Perhaps you're paid by the Democrats, if so, I suggest you get another job. It doesn't help us when you play Obama's body guard.

This is an Occupy site. Please respect the basic premises of Occupy ideology. Remember, Occupy started while Obama was President. If he's so amazing as you claim, then there's no reason why Occupy would have started at all.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Do you have a link to prove any of that?

I'm particularly interested in where I "played Obama's body guard".

You shouldn't lie.

It's bad for you.

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Shooz, look at the votes. You can blame the Republicans all you want, but the bottom line is that the majority of Dems voted for it, and a Dem president put his name on it, and there goes all the manufacturing jobs.

If you feel insulted by my posting links to the actual votes, I'm not sure what to tell you.

"It was deal put together by your own beloved Koch brothers"

Thats an insult. My posting the links you asked for is not.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Votes tell only part of the story.

Without knowing what the lobbying interests were at the time, they become even more meaningless.

Kind of like all the bullshit put forth about Ron Paul's voting record.

I feel insulted when you insult me.

Wanna talk about the current Congress's GOP voting record??

Wanna talk about Snyder tossing the voters record to the wind here in Michigan?

I didn't think so.

This is just another libe(R)tarian ruse on your part.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Sure. Lets talk about the current free trade fiasco that was a 3-In-1 screwing of the unions and jobs DURING occupy.


Or we talk about the TPP that both are pushing through.


Which one would you like to discuss first?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Weren't you one of those that expressed a fatal fear of union co-option??


You were.

Along with your support for "right to work" laws.

So please don't lean on unions now.

You don't care for them.

You've made that clear.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

You are the one who votes for those who ship their jobs overseas, not I.

You directly screw them with your vote. Thats raw and its true.

You need to accept your role in this and break free from it.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

I once helped bring some jobs back from Mexico.

It was the Towncar axle.

How about you?

What jobs did you help bring back?

Or do you consider keeping Koch brothers jobs here to be your contribution?

Now about your HATE for unions and your support of "right to work" laws?

You need to admit your roll of hate.

[-] 1 points by JohnKoenig (2) 4 years ago

A Lincoln Towncar? What year?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

It was during the 90's, when Gov. Engler was busy trying to help his ALEC handlers destroy unions.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

I don't get to vote for corporations.

Apparently you do.

Florida is weirder than I thought.

You HATE unions.

It's raw........but it's true.

That's why you tried to change the subject, yet again.

You support destroying the very jobs that are needed.

While you continue to profit from Koch brothers products.

[-] 3 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Shooz, Im going to be very frank with you.

You're a disrupter. We've seen them, Ive personally seen them. You get paid to post, I doubt you have a shred of union experience or even care. If you did, you wouldnt be attacking me, because you would see what Ive posted than Ive done.

Your generation has fucked the entire planet. Hopefully people like you will be gone soon, and we can figure this out.

You are like a machine, and I really hope you ARE a machine, because otherwise this is just really really sad. Typical, but sad.

In closing, your karma will come around. It prob already has, hence your current inability to do anything besides attack people on the internet. Discussion are simply not your thing, nor honest debates.

You get what you deserve. Which is a big pile of shit to sit in. Get comfy.

While you sit there like a knuckle dragging fool, others are out trying to do things for the betterment of humankind.

Your anger created your situation. Now deal with it.

Good bye.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago


Just plain wow.

What an insulting, assumptive piece of commentary.

Issue and fact free as usual.

You've been chasing liberals/democrats/progressives around here since the site opened.

Chased more than a few of them away, I have no doubt.

But you won't admit it.

Now you want to field every insult you can think of, while you still support libe(R)tarians?

Knuckle dragger??


That's a Rush Limbaugh/ Ted Nugent line for liberals

You won't even admit to what you've really done and said around here.

How many nameplates?

How many puppets have you employed?

I have one.

I'm not the one angry here ( That's another accusation that came from the right wing play book). Your use of it is telling.

Libe(R)Tarains created this situation.

You just won't admit it.

BTW UAW local 228, affiliated with local 2280 ( Ford VanDyke Plant)

Ford sterling plant (1823), across 17mi from the general Dynamics plant on Mound Rd.

Just because you're a liar, doesn't mean everyone else is..

It may very well be that it's anger that created your situation.

Lying is just perpetuating it.

Please stop trying to paint it on others.



[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Union guys dont support slave trade, so I guess you are full of it again.

Keep the lies coming. You are going to get one hell of a check this week.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Yes I know that very well.


After one of your insults I told you what I did and asked you what you did.

I actually help fight it successfully for a while.

There was a bit fat nothing from you............ then insults in another thread.

Then an entire post with nothing but lying accusations and insults.

You even accused me of not being in the UAW.


Yer posse even got in the top comments.

Just because you're using a new nameplate, it doesn't negate what you've said and done in the past, including your links to the John Birch Society, Brietbart and even Alex Jones..

None of which you've ever adequately explained.

You just tried to hide under other nameplates.

How many??

You never admit that either......

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

I love how you capitalize HATE while you endorse people who are sending the jobs overseas and will eventually steal your own pension as well.

We will clean up the mess you've made, dont worry.

Enjoy your life.

Im sure you are easing into a bath, with a cigar, like some arrogant chump who doesnt care you have left your kids with the biggest disaster ever because you couldnt stand up and do it yourself. Needed the government to lead you.


At least stop refering to bailouts marches as tea rallies. Man you are one arrogant old goat.

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

"What's that got to do with your HATE for unions? What's that got to do with your proud votes for the Koch's? deflection again?"

The people you endorse did it. Thats what.

I dont hate unions. Its why I dont support Democrats or Republicans.


Why do you?

ATTACK!! Paid per post or per comment?

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 4 years ago

These trade agreements make me believe that Congress has become too yellow to legislate effectively anymore. For Congress to allow foreign companies to veto environmental and labor laws, shows that they have lost their fidelity to our nation's interests. "Previous free trade agreements have included similar provisions, and governments have already shelled out $350 million, with billions more pending in cases affecting the United States. Critics, such as Public Citizen's Todd Tucker, believe that the investor provisions in these free trade deals are even worse, and the bailouts for foreign companies could reach the billions. In addition to the monetary cost, these provisions have a chilling effect on legislation: before changing our laws, we'll now not only have to assess the effect not only on our own economy and environment, but have to consider the cost to overseas operations of foreign companies as well." As the critics believe, I too believe, Congress has violated their affirmation oath to defend the interests of our nation.

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

The people slam and ridicule, with the media, anyone who has been in trouble or lived a bit.

Hence we end up with a bunch of total losers who make Shooz look like Lincoln.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

More deflection.

You never answered the question about your use of Koch brothers products.

While you vilify everyone else.

Plus of course your refusal to show even an ounce of empathy for those disabled poor kids getting fucked over in Florida.

Just another thread you'll try and dead end?

You've already shown your HATE of unions and your support for "right to work", why deny it at this point?

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

"I don't get to vote for corporations."

Yes you do. Its all there is.

Move to Amend.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

What's that got to do with your HATE for unions?

What's that got to do with your proud votes for the Koch's?

deflection again?

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

"I don't get to vote for corporations."

Yes you do. Yes also get a chance to vote for shipping your union jobs offshore.

Good work.

[-] 1 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Someone is voting for these people:


"House Democratic leaders postponed a final vote on a sweeping GATT trade treaty until later in the week but vowed to proceed Wednesday with a make-or-break procedural vote on the measure.

"We're going to pass GATT. This is going to become law this year," said House Speaker Thomas Foley, a Washington Democrat."


Someone voted for these people:

About the only big names in this one were Levin (good thing for MI) Reid and Boxer. Someone voted for the rest of em?:


Those are facts. Those are proof the system sucks. And the 95% reelection rate election after election PROVES your way sucks.

Go ahead and deny it.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Go away frank.

You're repeating yourself like a __.

NO facts, no proof, no issues, no explanation, no empathy.

Do you find altruism and empathy part the problem frank?

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

"I don't get to vote for corporations."

Yes you do. Everyone does.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago


The libe(R)topia of voting with your dollars.

Dollars as speech.

and to hell with the voting booth.

I guess that's why you deflected the voter suppression drive of ALEC and it's (R)epelican't adherents.

How many votes for the Koch's did you give on your last house flipping job?

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Every vote is for corporations in this money system.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Wow, just wow.

Still trying to change the subject.

Well I guess it just goes to prove that you WANT the brothers Koch to run the world.

Libe(R)topia for all!!!!

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

Libertopians will save us. Teh Green Party will save us. The Justice Party will save us. The Teathuglicans............oh, no wait..........cat's out of the bag.

[-] -1 points by Moonbat (-37) 4 years ago

"You have pretty much echoed the right wing line on everything...."

And then you cite alternet and politicususa. Echo, echo, echo....

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

You're a moonbat, so I'll take your so called comment with a grain of salt.

Prove any of it wrong. I dare you.

Libe(R)tarians are what are tearing the country apart.

The lying fuck ups that they are..


[-] 0 points by Moonbat (-37) 4 years ago

Actually, it's a habit of yours that has cracked me up for years. Someone posts a link and you are all like "that's a biased source, I'm not reading that", then you follow up with links to these horribly slanted sites Ones that don't come within a mile of objective journalism. There's no self-awareness with you at all.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

I didn't say a word about his source. You are mistaken as usual.

Now, prove any of it wrong.

It's not like you presented anything other than lame right wing rhetoric.

PS. What's your favorite "source" and what do they say about Detroit?

What do they say about libe(R)tarians?


[-] -2 points by Moonbat (-37) 4 years ago

I bounce around between CNN, Fox and MSNBC and read a wide range of sites, taking everything with a grain of salt and putting it all together the best that I can to get as complete a picture as possible.

And what do they all say about Detroit and it's future? This:


[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago


That figures.

And then you make a joke about some 700,00 people.

What the fuck are you doing here anyway?



( fuck the caps lock, it stands)





[-] -2 points by Moonbat (-37) 4 years ago

Any comment on the rumor that Omni Consumer Products (OCP) may step in and bail Detroit out?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

You respond to rumors. I don't.

Do you have a link?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Life is not a joke.

---Bob Dylan---

All Along the Watchtower.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

It's "life is but a joke," not "life is not a joke."

Just sayin'.

[-] 1 points by AlphonsoGrande (3) 4 years ago

Total opposite! Lol

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

You're correct.......but......it's implied in the rest of the lyric.

That's why I didn't put it in quotes.

Just sayin'........

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

"Still playing coy."

I don't play coy. I'm being a smart ass 'cause I'm trying to piss you off.

I'm thinking there's a distinct possibility you don't even realize you have that big chip on your shoulder, shooz. Well, you do. That's why most forum members pretty much ignore you.

So you give people on an internet forum a hard time because you're not stupid enough to do it on those Detroit streets. That shit'll get you killed up there, won't it? And the cops only solve about 10% of the crimes? That sucks.

I do like that Rembrandt, though. No shit. That is one bad-ass piece of art. But all kidding aside, it looks like it would take a legal battle to get permission to auction your collection off, since it's held in some form of trust. That's good, I hope it stays put.


[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

I see your little puppet posse has been busy.

Your libe(R)tarian friends are intent on sealing a tomb over any part of Detroit they can't profitize, or sell off.

My God man it's not a joke.


But like I said......you making it one and employing a posse around here, just proves your mettle.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

What the hell are you talking about "puppet posse?"

I don't have a damn thing to do with your downvotes, shooz. You'll have to take that up with someone else. It's not my problem people downvote you because they don't like your attitude. Hell, I even upvoted one of your comments last night.

Paranoia and a chip on your shoulder. It's obvious you suffer from paranoia, shooz, it shows in your comments on your posts the forum ignores. All your talk of this mysterious "they" you keep mentioning. "They'll downvote me" and "they'll ignore this post." You seem to think there's some sort of conspiracy against you. You seem to think you and Michigan should be the center of this forum's attention and it bugs the hell out of you that you're not. Maybe if you'd lose the attitude people would have more respect for you.

You're a sad little man, shooz. A sad angry little man.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Get over yourself Mr. Munny.

You did bait me the other night. You're just too big an ass to admit it.

Of course I'm angry, but not at you.

As far as I can tell, you're just another libe(R)tarian, probably angry because Ron Paul flopped again.......worth arguing with, just because it seems that most libe(R)tarians resort to insult when they're called out on the obvious, but not worth any anger.

I'll save that for your "philosophy"..

You didn't let me down.............................:)

You definitely resorted to insult.

His son's an even BIGGER libe(R)tarian jerk, so take heart.

I'm frustrated not angry.

Frustrated by how Immoral, selfish, and just plain mean and nasty libe(R)tarianism is.

Mean people suck, that's just the way it is.

Oh, and BTW, about that art auction you're planning on?

A smart libe(R)tarian wouldn't sell one of the few things left in Detroit that are still making money.

They would only be doing to create more destruction.

Like I said, mean people suck, you just seem to like what they are doing.


[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Hmmm, where did I insult you? By calling you sad and angry? Those aren't insults, they're observations.

As is the observation that you're not too bright. Last night was the second time I told you selling that art would be the wrong thing to do, but you're quite selective in what you choose to read.

And I didn't bait you, you bated me. Reread the thread. Or here, let me explain how it went down. You listed a half dozen links for me to look at.

Later, I made the benign comment "The hour IS getting late. It's later than the masses think."

I'd say that's a true statement, since the masses seem pretty much clueless as to what's really going on in the world. Definitely not a confrontational statement at all. So what's your response?

"So then? About that talking falsely now?"

So either that statement was in reference to some false statements in your links, or somehow implying my statement was false.

So tell me, Mr. shooz, where's the falseness in this statement: "The hour IS getting late. It's later than the masses think?" If you think that's somehow inaccurate, then I guess you're implying we have all the time in the world. Here's a fun fact for you: WE DON"T.

Or where is the false statements in the links you provided? I must have missed them. It must be one or the other. So point it out and we can go on. I can play your silly bullshit all night long if I so choose. I just usually don't waste my time with it.

I responded to you so that "my posse can downvote you?" That's hilarious. It's like I told you last night, you bring that shit on yourself. Hell I've been grocery shopping the last hour and a half and it looks like you've garnered quite a few downvotes in my absence. I guess you think that was "coordinated."

And I have no political affiliations. You see Libertarians under every rock like Zen see republicans under every rock. The paranoia runs rampant.

So point out the "talking falsely" so maybe I can understand where you're coming from.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Verbose, but like your baiting, and subsequent denial. it's a lie.

Shall I start making "observations" about you, based on nothing at all??

The hour's getting late?

It's far too fucking late to put up with any more bullshit from libe(R)tarian liars.

You already stated that you're a libe(R)tarian, and now you want to deny that too?

Oh and as far as the posse comment?

One of it's members contacted me by PM and told me about it, so yep.....It's real.

So when do you plan on stopping your false talking?

Here's some stuff on the Koch's for you.

Seems like they are VERY prevalent in Missouri.


sinking wages like they do everywhere.

There can be only one reason you never noticed.



It seems they really are hiding under every evil legislative rock.


You just refuse to tell us.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

True, the whole line would have applied just as well as you're, uh, misquote. ;)

"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke."

True words, both here and the outside world in general.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

Shooz...I didn't know Dylan wrote All Along The Watchtower, as i have always associated that song with Hendrix, who did a great job on that song


[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Dylan wrote more than most people know. A lot of the signature songs for other bands in the 60s and early 70s were Dylan numbers, including Hendrix.

Ever seen Ms. Lee do Hendrix?

VooDoo Chile



[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

That was amazing, and it was not the kind of music that you would think would come out of such an instrument played by such a young woman. Thanks

Baez gives Dylan a lot of credit for being a good song writer


[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 4 years ago

The people's poet.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

He even got on Oscar, whatever that's worth.


[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

The Hendrix version is much more famous. It was originally on a Dylan album, but when Jimi released it as a single, that's what made it a big hit.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

Yeah, it is a "cool poster." I agreee as to not holding out much hope for Manning at this time, but given all the support that he has experienced throughout the world, it has to reinforce in him his belief that he did the right thing and that there still is hope for this World

And it brings to light to a lot of other people....one more example of just how perverse and rotten our government has become


[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Even if Manning's fate is a foregone conclusion, it's still worth all the protests and support. I agree, it must make him feel pretty good to see it and does spread the word that much further.

"Each one teach one."

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

Even though the forces aligned against us are immense, we cannot despair. As you implied, if not for us, for the next generation, we must PERSEVERE. We have come too far; have learned too much; we know the consequences of defeat

OK, I'll cool the comps.....for now..;-)

On a side note, i made arrangements earlier to meet some friends in Strawberry Fields for a picnic, and the Bradley Manning demonstration

"If You See Something, Say Something....Unless It's US War Crimes.... in which case you will be imprisoned indefinitely"



[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

That's a cool poster. And an important event.

But I don't hold out much hope, sadly. They'll want to set an example, especially with the Snowden affair popping up. So, he'll be going to jail but, hopefully, hopefully, the judge will give him a reduced sentence. And maybe somewhere down the road, maybe thru appeal, reduced further. But I have no idea, of course. Especially considering how bad things have got in the past few years. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

Dylan might well have been a "dick," and other than writing and singing, he did not take part actively in the anti-war, or civil rights demonstrations the way that Baez did. Still I did like his music at that time

You do not have to "get around" to have good perceptions on what is going on, as having an open mind in search of truth suffices extremely well. And errr...I've read many of your comments, and the exchanges you had with shadz while in AK, and I'm very impressed teach. I have a lot to catch up on

It's just that i think our government learned from the Vietnam War. If they wanted to continue the wars for resources...they could not have the kind of reporting that went on then.....and they could not have a draft, and a lot of American caualities. So we learned to kill far more efficiently...drones, radium and guided bombs, etc

And like in all wars, they needed to demonize people who fought back against our agression. Anybody that does is a terrorist, and any country that wants to have weapons to defend itself...cannot 'cause it's only us and our allies that can posess WMD's

It's really a sad state of affairs we are in g


[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Yes it is, my friend. A definite sad state. It almost seems too overwhelming at times, doesn't it? Like fighting a losing battle considering the forces aligned against us. But quitting isn't really an option, 'cause it ain't gonna get better on its own. And like you say, it's really for the future generations more so than you and me.

And thanks for the complement, my friend, but you're making me blush. Stop that! ;-)

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

Replying here. Bob Dylan did have a rep of being very immature, and a bit of an ass. Him and Joan Baez were romantically involved, and that did not end well

Baez though was one courageous lady in her opposition to the Vietnam War, and i have tons of respect for her. PBS did a great biography of her life in which I learned a lot that I didn'tknow about her. I might search for it

It was a real honor for me to meet her briefly during the 11-11-11 concert that she did for Occupy (the one where I'm in that clip), but unfortunately, it was not well attended, and many of the young people did not know who she was

"People are smarter and wiser now." I'm not sure that i can agree with that statement g


[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Years ago a friend of mine used to have a part-time job setting up for concerts at the stadium here and he said one of the perks of the job was getting to hang around and listen to the bands doing sound checks. Out of all the bands he set up for he said Dylan was the only one that didn't let them stay and listen. Dylan was a dick.

Joan Baez though, yeah. I like her.

People are smarter and wiser about the realities of war, I think. Not smarter in general by any stretch. It's the only reason I can think of right off that would make the government make such an about-face as far as showing coverage. But maybe they're not getting smarter, maybe they're just getting tired of it.

But you get around a lot more than me, so you probably have a better perspective about what people are really saying.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 4 years ago

Yeah, I read that when I googled it. I think Hendix version came out only six months after Dylan wrote it

I saw Dylan in northern Vermont about twenty years ago, and thought it was time for him to retire

Then a couple years ago i asked a friend's daughter in Sweden who saw him play there what she thought of him? Without hesitating, she said "he sucked."

In his prime, Dylan was great though

So here, Hendrix version of All Along The Watchtower with pictures of the horror of the Vietnam War in the background


Take note of "leatbabyseals" comment which is one of the reasons why there is not more backlash against the wars today

His comment, "Difference between Iraq/Afghanistan wars and Vietnam? The news played and showed real footage from Vietnam. Now people are locked away in jail for releasing footage of the war. Poor Bradley Manning."

I too can remember watching the nightly news as a young man, and on a regular basis seeing all the footage of the death and destruction going on in Vietnam, and also seeing the flag draped bodies returning to Dover AFB

Today as one poster here said, "Out of sight, out of mind."

The 'war machine' knew that, that kind of reporting had to be stopped


[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

I knew the Hendrix version was close to the same time Dylan put it out, but didn't know it was that close.

Personally, I never cared for Dylan. He came up with some damn good songs but I always though he was overrated. He ripped off Woody Guthrie's sound and James Dean's look. I thought it was interesting when a few years back one of the female icons of the sixties (can't remember which, Joni Mitchell maybe?) called him a fake and a plagiarist.

Luckily, I was too young to remember much about the Viet Nam War, although I did see some gruesome pictures in the mid to late '70's.

And it is striking, the difference between then and now as far as war coverage goes. People are smarter and wiser now, I think, as far as not having such a blind allegiance to the flag. I guess the government found that out during the Iraq War, maybe before.

I think Tiki said that, "out of sight, out of mind" about the drone strikes. How true.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

"That would make you the one playing a game."

How is acknowledging what you're saying "playing a game?" It was in agreement. Just making a comment. You see some kind of confrontation in my statement? Jeez.

You play this shit with Tiki all the time, shooz. I told you I'm not playing your bullshit game. Might as well not even waste your time replying.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

C'mon Mr. Munny, you were baiting me and you know it.

Right from your title line, with italics for emphasis.

and then you want to play coy?

Yes that would be you playing a game.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Ah, now I get it. I think I finally figured you out, shooz. This is entertainment to you. I can understand, it probably gets pretty lonely up there for you, you poor sap.

Hey, I read earlier Christie's was there eye-balling your art collection recently. That Van Gogh self-portrait is really something, isn't it? What you think that things worth? Gotta run $20 mill, at least. Maybe twice that.

Hey, I wonder if our art museum might be interested? That would be cool. Lord knows they have the wall space, what with that $319 million expansion they finished last year.

And do me a favor, bud. When your libraries start selling their collections, hit me up will ya? They finally opened our main library downtown after a two year renovation and they might need some of your stuff. You ought to see it down there, man, it's awesome. Kept most of the original architectural details inside. Really nice place.

You're right, that was fun. I might be back again. Not sure, it all depends how busy these PMs keep me. And it is getting late. I might not be able to hook up till tomorrow. Don't take it personal.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Still baiting me??

This is what proves your mettle.

That you actually endorse these kinds of things.

A libe(R)tarian?

That would be my guess, but I doubt you'd admit to much of anything.

Here's something informative for you.


[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

I don't really care for the Van Gogh personally. Don't really care for Impressionist works, you know. If i had my 'druthers' it'd be that Rembrandt. Now that is a beautiful piece of work.

I saw the Moyers piece. I can tell 'cause on my screen the link is purple instead of blue. But thanks.

I gave you back that twinkle someone took from you too. Did you notice? The comment was zero, I put back up to 'one' for you, just to show good faith.

No need to thank me ;-)

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Baiting, baiting and more baiting.

You must have disagreed with the video.

Still playing coy.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

The hour IS getting late. It's later than the masses think.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

So then?

About that talking falsely now?

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Oh fuck, here we go . . .

Which one you want to talk about, shooz? The cannibal lobsters eating each other because the fishermen are depleting their natural predators or the bank asshole that can't tell the difference between 509 and 514?

Or maybe you just want to rap about Michigan for a while, seeing as you think it's the center of the known universe?

I'm busy right now, shooz. I'm not gonna play your game.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

Then why did you answer at all?

That would make you the one playing a game.

[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

[-] 0 points by shooz (20799) 10 hours ago

Then why did you answer at all?

That would make you the one playing a game. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Can we quit fucking around tell this asswipe to bring the shit on or go fuck himself?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

He was baiting me so his posse could vote down my comments.

He's already admitted to being a CATO adherent.

The Libe(R)tarian co-option has been here since the beginning, but we're not supposed to notice.

[-] -2 points by dingofarango (-5) 4 years ago

No need to create division anymore. Phase I is over. The black man is now king. It's time to commence phase II.

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

[-] 1 points by shooz (20811) 21 minutes ago

My guess is, he likes talking falsely.

It's the way of the libe(R)tarians.

For all their BS about responsibility and individuality. they are the first to gang up on someone.

But they'll never admit it. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

The way of the libertarians.............found in fortune cookies.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

"misfortune" cookies, freely distributed by the brothers Koch.

Ugly, Randian philosophy is the only thing they've EVER given away.

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 4 years ago

[-] 1 points by shooz (20799) 4 minutes ago

He was baiting me so his posse could vote down my comments.

He's already admitted to being a CATO adherent.

The Libe(R)tarian co-option has been here since the beginning, but we're not supposed to notice. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

I can see that.

It's a bunch of bullshit. I about died laughing watching the dumbass shit on issues are bad and then watching a bunch of dumbasses pat her on the back. Patronizing clowns.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

My guess is, he likes talking falsely.

It's the way of the libe(R)tarians.

For all their BS about responsibility and individuality. they are the first to gang up on someone.

But they'll never admit it.

[-] -2 points by Moonbat (-37) 4 years ago

"Bitches, leave! " Clarence Boddicker

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 4 years ago

"Let us stop talking falsely now. the hour's getting late."

---Bob Dylan---



[+] -5 points by StillPoor (-18) 4 years ago

Just love how everyone on here just jumps on it like I care what any of you think. You're nameless, faceless cowards. I could give a fuck what you think. I'm simply the thorn in your side.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 4 years ago

Says the idiot with no name posting on the internet.

Fantasize much?

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Damn good point, TJ. Not even a real name on the profile page.


[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Define "everyone." WTF are you talking about? TikiJ's response was to shooz, and shadz is in agreement with you.

[+] -6 points by StillPoor (-18) 4 years ago
  1. This forum has banned all the users that used their real names, and continues to do so.

  2. Agreement and disagreement on this forum is pointless because anything the management disagrees with gets censored, agreement is the only option.

  3. "Fake name A supports fake name B and fake name C agrees with you" just seems a little silly. (Maybe I'm just old fashioned)

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago
  1. Not true since very few forum users have ever used their real names. Refresh my memory and name a couple. Christopher Brown comes immediately to mind but whether he was banned or left of his own volition is unclear. Trevor wasn't banned to my knowledge. Shadz is still here. And TikiJ has mentioned his real name on the open forum at least once recently. There is no correlation between being banned and using your real name.

  2. Also not true as anyone that follows TikiJ's lively conversations with shooz can attest, as well as GirlFriday's rants against people she has disagreements with.

  3. Doesn't even make sense. And as TikiJ pointed out, you're using a fake name right now so your whole rant seems pointless.

And why someone would link a good article about Jimmy Carter then use it to slam the forum also doesn't make sense. The way you posted it almost sounded like some sort of challenge. In short, I don't understand your motivation.

[+] -5 points by StillPoor (-18) 4 years ago

Nor do I understand the motivation behind this forum's management. Nor do I understand why you think I would buy your explanation since the remaining users worked together until they were the only ones here. All you need to do is read the threads to see them gang up on other users shortly before said user gets banned or just stops participating. Are you arguing because you think I don't know better or because you're just being consistent with plausible denial? I have been coming to this forum since the first couple of month of it's existence. This forum has been intentionally run into the ground by those who manage it.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Look 'T,' I agree with what you say about there being problems with how this forum is being run, and about how a certain few 'high-score' individuals have done as much harm as good, but damn it, man, if you don't like how things are, complaining about it certainly isn't what I would consider a 'forum improvement.' If you like coming here and participating then start posting worthy posts. If you don't like it, stay away, it's as simple as that. Complaining does absolutely no good, you know that by now. Unless you just love the attention, but that another subject entirely.

This post is a good example. Had you just left it as a post about Carter, it stood on its on right as a worthy post and shadz even agreed and added to it. That's how it's supposed to work, but you turned an okay post into another attack on the forum. That's pointless.

And I'd still like to hear you name people banned that were using there real names here. You didn't name one. How come?

But that's all the time I'll waste on this. I'm about to do something more productive. Like post a video I consider a must-see. And I don't give a fuck if only ten people see it. Doesn't matter to me. It's a damn important subject and I'll bet every one of the "last ten standing" will agree.

[-] 1 points by TheManOfAQuadrillionMonikers (1) 4 years ago

I'm surprised you think Stillpoor is me, 'T'. He's not. I never post things such as:

"You're nameless, faceless cowards. I could give a fuck what you think."

I don't believe in anger and in calling other people names. I believe in logic. And, I care what everyone thinks, that's why I don't like censorship. I like to read the opinions of everyone here, even if they go against the accepted grain.

It's not because someone else is against censorship that he's me! A lot of people don't like censorship.

My guess is that Stillpoor is PeterKropotkin. It's a guess, nothing more.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 4 years ago

Here's a portion of my conversation with Renneye in our PM's from last night:

Renneye said 13 hours ago at July 22, 2013, 2:50 a.m. EST

"I don't think 'stillpoor' is Thras, but I could be wrong."

gnomunny said 13 hours ago at July 22, 2013, 3:14 a.m. EST

"I was thinking stillpoor wasn't Mr. T either, but figured I'd throw that out there and see if he bites. His few comments don't have that Trashy feel, but he did start in with bitching about the moderation, claims to have been here since the early days, and vaguely mentions the persons responsible for ruining the forum. So far no response, though. We'll see, I guess."

It was just a long shot. But I don't think it's PK either. I've talked to him a few times in the last month and those comments don't have a PK 'feel' either. I believe it wasn't you. Must be someone else that's not too happy with the state of affairs here. Hey, it looks like you're not alone, heheh.