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Forum Post: Capitalism Should Give Universal Living Wage or else it is Useless

Posted 11 years ago on May 5, 2013, 11:23 p.m. EST by gsw (3410) from Woodbridge Township, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Capitalism Should Give Universal Living Wage or else it is Useless

Good 5 Minute Video on International Living Wage


On "Clean Clothes" http://www.cleanclothes.org/issues/faq/where-can-i-buy



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[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

We need a global living wage or at least a global minimum wage. I agree with this. It would eliminate a lot of exploitation all over the world.

Come on, you economists out there, surely you are smart enough to figure this one out. It might be a bit complicated but the benefits would be so worthwhile.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Unfortunately like Human Resources People - Economists work for employers - and Employers do not like the sound of higher wages - in their minds that equates to lower profits - lower profits for their pockets - so that will have a tendency to skew reports presented.

Got to get past the Blind Greed factor.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

But, fortunately, the world is full of human beings who know what they need and who know that all human beings are equal regardless of where they live or what they do for a living or how much money they have acquired or what color their skin is.

It's time to take back the exploitative factor of low wages around the world that hurt, not only those in the United States through loss of jobs, but those forced to live with those low wages through the excessive inhumane exploitation of a capitalist economic system.

[-] 3 points by Middleaged (5140) 11 years ago

We must know that up is down, right is left, economic solutions are austerity, government spending & Liberalism ends up cutting U workers wages, benefits, out sourcing, off shoring of not only bank accounts, Trust accounts, Compensation of Executive pay to trust accounts off shore.... but much more.

Current Politics and Propaganda tell us that we can't trust our minds, our reason, and our history.

The Fact is that if you live in one Zip Code... the Cable & Satellite companies will not give you International News,

Let me Repeat that. You can not expect good customer service ... if you speak a foreign language other than Spanish. And we can talk about the quality of US News which is programed for USA. Do you think BBC USA is filtered through policy before it gets to the US consumer???

Look if you are Russian or Speak Arabic... you better live in Washington DC. Why??? Well they know there are Ambassador Staff of all kinds living in Washington DC. Many people are either following International News because of there family ties... or ... they are following new ties since they are spying on these people or creating US policy to deal with these people..

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Interesting, because my online RT live comes in pretty poorly these days.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 11 years ago

Sorry, it was a rambling post. I'm sure big cities get many embassies and international news. I probably live in an area they recruit soldiers and state troopers from. Mid-west.

I guess I'm focused on secrets and transparency. And dumbing down the population.

Living wage sounds good.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

No. Your post was not rambling. It speaks to a lot of places in America and I'd like to know why my RT Live is coming in so badly, lol!

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 11 years ago

They cut RT back on PBS here... took it from prime time to late news time. I should try to find access to RT on line....

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

It's there but it's very blurry for me these days.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Absolutely - level the field. Prosperity = Healthy Living - Not scads of money.

Shift the paradigm.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Right. Reconsider what is truly important.

[-] 4 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

Shelter, clean water, sustenance, comeraderie.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Exactly. The accumulation of stuff is making us all miserable.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

And despite being more "connected" than ever before, apparentlly we've never felt more isolated nor insignificant.

I am unplugging more and more of my time, and making an effort to reconnect with the world around me. Not just the people, either. I've taken to walking twelve kms (seven miles) during sunrise each day. It's such a different existence to just functioning as a working unit. And you get to smile and greet so many people in an actual way. Refreshing.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Less is more. Keep things simple and they have more meaning.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

Yes, and more recycling. I found a lightweight down hiking jacket yesterday for less than a tenner. Brand new condition, and warm as toast. Saved a packet.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Yes, buying things used, using things until they wear out. These are all good things to do.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Exactly so.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Yep - living for money for possessions is not healthy at all - it has brought us to this place in time - a planet that is being made unlivable.

[-] 0 points by highlander21 (-46) 11 years ago

"Oh! You will think of something!" Jim Taggart - Atlas Shrugged.


[-] 1 points by ProblemSolver (79) 11 years ago

The best Universal-Currency : an hour of time.

  • An hour as an Asian factory worker.

  • An hour of a WallStreet Ceo.

  • An hour of a student.

  • An hour of a janitor.

  • An hour of a plumber.

  • An hour of a school teacher.

  • An hour of an offshore oilrigger.

  • An hour of a farmer.

  • An hour of a Doctor.

An hour of time is the same length for everyone. [ except of course Shadz67, her hot-headed, purple skinned hour is much more valuable than anyone else's.. so she thinks.]

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 11 years ago

How about a guaranteed minimum income!

Everyone, able (or willing) to work or not, should be given a sustenance income, enough money to live simply. There is no shortage of wealth, it is currently concentrated in the hands of the few. This situation is entirely counter productive. Providing the poorest people some basic money to spend feeds the economy, creating more work and jobs for more people, as well as useful utilization of our planets resources. Instead of the 1% excess and pomp, for egos sake. Hording resources and wealth should be outlawed.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3410) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 11 years ago

Great idea. Everyone (minus violent criminals) ought to have a piece of the dream, basic sustenance, shelter, medicine, some money.


[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Capitalism Should Give Universal Living Wage or else it is Useless

That "would" make for a more robust and healthy economy.

[-] 0 points by freemarket5555 (-182) 11 years ago

What do you do with people that dont like to work hard? Promising a "living wage" is sure to cause a lot of lackluster work efforts. Unfortunately, there are a lot of unmotivated people and there isnt a provision in a LW that would equalize effort with wages.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3410) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 11 years ago

Damn good question. Living Wage would be tied to job continuance.

Unmotivated would receive a major financial penalty.

On a previous Post it was handled as such....

21 Flexible living wage for all workers: (through citizens members all members of public coops in community ownership of 51 percent of all corporation operating in usa, or nationalized public coops where all citizens have a voice, ownership, and dividend credits to assure the reach a living wage and meet human needs through: oil and minerals, utilities, food, housing, education coops, whose proceeds and credits help ensure living wage and basic needs credits as human rights) see 22 and 23 below for further details on how funded.

For example ...Say we decide $75,000 is a living wage. ( or some relative equivalent if we have universal Medicare, and universal coop food, housing and energy credits to bring one close to this level, assuming the people decided cooperative of the major resources, owned by all, is a good idea and is best for whole country, the general welfare). Students would not earn full living wage in housing, but might earn more credits toward education, so it would balance out. This would be to state schools, most likely, but not exclusively). Also the $75,000 figure might be for a forty year old. A more modest living wage, say $40,000 for a twenty five year old, $25,000 for below 25 years. This to be paid for with 80 percent income tax on earnings over a 400,000 a year, and from credits we all earn as members, citizens of government coops in food, energy, housing, agriculture, education, etc. Slackers, and the are some, would be towards lower end of living wage scale, more of a maintainance wage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights


[-] 0 points by xiaolong (0) 11 years ago

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[-] 0 points by Shule (2638) 11 years ago

Why not just say Capitalism is useless?

[-] 0 points by gsw (3410) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 11 years ago

We need to proceed in steps. We need to establish people have universal human needs, which should be met, with or without crapitalism

[-] 0 points by gsw (3410) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 11 years ago

Capitalism is proving useless to many in world.

It would be greatly improved with mandatory international living wage.

Upper Wage limits on wealth should be demanded, if we can't provide international universal living wage. There should be a decent life for all if we decide that is a goal.


[-] 0 points by Shule (2638) 11 years ago

Yes that would be very nice, but that will never happen for it undermines the very heart of capitalism.

We need to get rid of capitalism, or at least the common people's belief in it.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3410) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 11 years ago

Most people in world have other values more important than money, such as family.

Children must be taught that "things" must be paid for. The system as it exists makes us debt slaves from a birth. See 2nd link, 97 Percent Owned



We need a better system. If we don't have plan for one, we should reform what we have.

We Should seek to establish universal rights of meeting human needs, which should be the general welfare, the first fouding business of US government.

[-] 0 points by Shule (2638) 11 years ago

I think it comes down to money. We need to stop using U.S. Dollars as are means to trade goods and services; at least figure out how to not use it as much.

[-] 0 points by gsw (3410) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 11 years ago

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

End poverty http://www.whypoverty.net/en/theme/inequality/

[-] -1 points by freemarket5555 (-182) 11 years ago

Dont buy foreign goods.Convince everyone to buy high end American made Union products. Voila, overseas sweat shops vanish.

[-] 0 points by eterna (-93) from Montauk, NY 11 years ago

high end? like those crappy GM union made cars?

[-] 0 points by gsw (3410) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 11 years ago

Universal Living Wage Calculator for USA http://www.universallivingwage.org/

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 11 years ago

I don't think you folks have yet to realize that there are 7 billion people in this world and to think that everyone should have a "living wage" is lunicy.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3410) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 11 years ago

Different countries would have differing living wages......

Opponents of these initiatives have stressed, variously, the difficulties in defining and measuring a living wage across the wide range of apparel producing regions, the unintended consequences that might result from higher wage levels in export-oriented apparel production (such as employment losses or capital flight), and the ethical contradictions that result from Western consumers (or governments) imposing labor standards on developing country apparel producers.4 While thorough investigation of each of these concerns is the task of a broad research program, in this paper I attempt a more modest contribution, namely a comprehensive examination of the difficulties involved in defining and measuring a living wage internationally. In the next section I briefly discuss the many ways in which the term living wage has been defined both in the United States and elsewhere. In section 3 I review the current methods utilized to conduct cross-national living standards comparisons and assess both their virtues and shortcomings. In section 4 I detail the ways in which a “living wage formula” could be constructed from local cost of living surveys or based on information contained in standard household income and expenditure surveys. I also describe the modification of current techniques for living standards measurement that I would consider optimal for defining a measuring a global living wage. In section 5 I discuss other means of conducting cross-national comparisons using more aggregate international data, and in section 6 I will conclude with an evaluation of each of these approaches, as well as a discussion of their desirability and feasibility


[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Why? Kinda shortsighted aren't ya.

[-] -3 points by lloydbraun (-12) 11 years ago

In other words...lazy ignorant liberals demand to get more money...for NOTHING. Just because...they exist.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (8708) 11 years ago

BTW, we know that in your case you are actually speaking for the 1% here, and just pretending to be a red-neck ignoramous in the hopes of convincing red-neck ignoramouses that they should believe what you want them to believe.

You're writing is more at the level of asshole than ignoramous.

Just so you know the score.

[-] 0 points by Nationwide (-93) 11 years ago

Your man Al Gore is the 1%. Go after him.

[-] -1 points by linden (-16) 11 years ago

They won't , he's their global warming /climate change con man.

[-] 2 points by gsw (3410) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 11 years ago

These people don't look lazy