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Forum Post: Capitalism and Surplus -- Richard Wolff

Posted 7 years ago on April 27, 2014, 2:10 p.m. EST by struggleforfreedom80 (6584)
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[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (23462) 7 years ago

Under capitalism, workers must produce more than the wage they are paid. Workers are never paid their true worth. From Wolff:

"You produce more than you get. And, I know this upsets particularly Americans, who watch these explanations, because we all would like to believe that we would never work for anyone who doesn't pay us what we're worth. Capitalism, however, is a system that cannot and will never do that. It will only pay you less than what your labor produces for them. And, that is where profit comes from and that is where the stockmarket is manipulated to get it's hands on that profit."

[-] 0 points by TheRoot (305) from New York, NY 7 years ago

Let the state or the community force the wage rate and you'll get what you want- stagnation for all; progress for none. We are all tribalists now, living hand to mouth. Freedom is dead; long live freedom.

[-] 7 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 7 years ago

What are you talking about? If the workers and the communities controlled the economic institutions, the value created would be distributed to the people, instead of being more and more concentrated into the hands of wealthy, non-elected business-owners.

Capitalism is tyranny; it's based on a wealthy, non-elected elite controlling and dominating the rest. Capitalism should be replaced by economic democracy.

[-] 4 points by flip (7101) 7 years ago

he is very good at stringing words together but not making any sense.

[-] 6 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 7 years ago

That's right. Last time I talked to this guy it almost seemed like he'd been cramming Ayn Rand. Rand-worshippers use a specific recipe: lots of big words and quasi-intellectual language combined with (according to themselves) self-evident propositions--which in reality are pure bullshit (f.ex. cutting taxes for billionaires=a more free society), and then mix this with a couple of truisms here and there (A=A f.ex.). Root was using the exact same techniques.

They're just advocating ultra right-wing pro-corporate ideology: shuffle tons of cash into the pockets of the wealthy, and make the rest of the population obedient and frightened wage slaves.


[-] 5 points by flip (7101) 7 years ago

as I am sure you know I think noam is the best - nobody really close. as to the root jabberwocky - seems like you nailed it. I had a number of discussions in zuccotti with ron paul devotees - similar style. they had an echo chamber thing going but none of it made sense really. a couple of times I pointed out obvious flaws in the logic and they engaged in real discussion. mostly they just continued on with their mantra. the best thing about the park was there were usually people listening who would not let them get away with the bullshit so they would fade away to find others of like minds.

[-] 4 points by flip (7101) 7 years ago

I think it is time to educate yourself to the root of it all. I would suggest reading "the invention of capitalism" by Michael perelman