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Forum Post: Can the OWS community continue?

Posted 2 years ago on May 6, 2012, 6:55 a.m. EST by PollyAnn (6) from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

OccupyWallStreet and #ows has changed the way so many people communicate, and the way we get to know that there are so many other people out there as angry as we are (as I am) about the inequality in America. Thanks guys for letting me be a part of something so much bigger than myself! I'm worried though, that this will one day end, and people will move on to something new??

56 Comments

56 Comments


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[-] 4 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

Just keep building community wherever you go!

People are amazed how great it is to be in a community of caring people, working together on important issues that make life better for all. When everyone has a voice, and their thoughts and feelings are thoughtfully considered by the group, community becomes more real,. people care more for each other. In the top-down dominator systems we have been raised with, this euphoric experience of community is sadly repressed and belittled.

Keep building community!

[-] 2 points by PollyAnn (6) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Do you think it really is a community though? We still have organisers somewhat dictating events and protests, so how much of the top-down power is removed here? And, if it truly is a community, how do we go about sustaining and replicating it?

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

these are questions that have different answers for each individual. You choose your own level of involvement. To see more community, get more involved in your various communities,. there are many affinity groups, as we all have a wide range of interests. This is what gives people strength, the diversity of our desires.

If you want more say in event organizing,. get more involved in the organizing of events.

[-] 2 points by PollyAnn (6) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Thanks jph!

[-] 3 points by BoycottCoke (275) 2 years ago

MLK said once

"For when people get caught up with that which is right and they are willing to sacrifice for it, there is no stopping point short of victory"

I think the movement will stop one day, but not anytime soon. The reason for this is our aim should be to get to a point where there is no need for peaceful demonstration and civil disobedience, but as of right now, we are too far from that day, but it is my hope that one day there will be justice and equality for all people, and that people will be able to live their lives in freedom.

But there is a lot of work left, this is just a foundation being laid, we the ones in the field, are the ones who need to build on the knowledge acquired here. OWS can not possible reach the whole land, but those here need to act as ambassadors of this movement everywhere we go, and bring the message of justice for the masses not just the classes, to anybody who wish to listen to.

As a truck driver, I cover 17 states in the east coast and part of the midwest, this offers me a tremendous opportunity to touch (talk to) people from all walks of life and ethnicities. So those of us who have this type of reach, need to concentrate in bringing this message of solidarity with the oppressed, everywhere we go.

Even if you can only open the eyes of ONE person, you did your part already, so don't give up cause some might not want to listen, keep going and spread this message as a virus, soon there will be too many of us willing to join forces and make real changes.

Don't bite too much at one time, baby steps and soon before you know you will be running at top speed. Pick a cause and stick to it without being distracted by the distracters, injected in here with the purpose of destroying not building.

I picked mine and will not move on to another till this one is finished, that is the strength as individuals in numbers bring to this movement, if enough of us stick to ONE thing, we can make changes, but if we all stick to all things nothing will get done, and forever we will be "talking" and not "walking"

Direct action strategies will bring swift victories left and right, as a matter of fact, I have mentioned in the past, that if we took a stand against one large corporation and force our will upon it, then others will see things working, and those on the fence will come and join us, but people or most people need to see a sign to believe, let us give it to them!!

God bless you and the movement. BC

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

There is no way I am taking this post at face value

PollyAnna Joined May 6th

No information

It is immediately clear to me that this is not a concern but an insinuation, and that it plays with the revolving attack points fed to the trolls on this forum, which at the moment is an effort to divide this movement.

People must become sensitive to the tendency of these posts to hit certain themes in unison, and call it like they see it, and I'm saying it:

TROLL

[-] 1 points by PollyAnn (6) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I am aquite affronted by this remark. I have been following the progress of #ows for quite some time. As a university student I am very much part of the 99% myself. Not that I should be required to justify myself, but I'm new to online forums, and I'm not sure why anyone would post on here in order to 'divide this movement' and to troll?

I am simply in awe of the feelings of communality created via OWS.

I suggest you focus your attentions on a more worthy candidate.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Why do you question whether OWS can continue? Do you think this is a fad, like pet rocks?

Don't worry, it will continue, because human survival is at stake, and a lot of people have woken up to realize this.

[-] 1 points by PollyAnn (6) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Because I am voicing my concerns. I regret your dismissive and demeaning tone. I wish to continue my involvement on this forum and as part of this community without being assailed by fellow members. I consider your attitude to detract from the otherwise unified and supportive front of OWS.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I'm not stopping you, you've has over six months to voice your concerns. Please feel free to go on doing so. But if you come on to a forum like this after six months and post something like this, don't expect that people will simply take it at face value. If your concern is genuine that will be apparent soon enough.

[-] -3 points by veron (-39) 2 years ago

ForumSpeak: The True Meanings of "Spam", "Troll" and "Karma":

spam : Any forum posting that (a) conflicts with either the forum moderators' agenda or groupthink consensus; or (b) any other forum member disagrees with, doesn't like, fears or otherwise does not wish to see posted.

troll : Any forum member who posts "spam" as defined above.

karma : A numerical measure of forum groupthink contribution, conformity and compliance that says nothing about the virtues of the poster or the veracity of their postings.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Oh good, as confirmation we have the mantra from the innept PR firm hired to smear this forum, thanks for that. Now I'm certain I made the right call:)

[-] -2 points by veron (-39) 2 years ago

Telling the truth is no "smear", GypsyClown, and YOU are not "this forum".

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Oh, you aren't here just to smear me.

[-] -1 points by veron (-39) 2 years ago

Again, telling the truth is no "smear", GypsyClown. And yes, we know you have accomplices. We'll deal with them in good time.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

The infighting and constant worrying about the rules of the camp have been major problems at Occupy Tampa, and have been the biggest reason for quite a few very talented people leaving the group.

[-] 1 points by TheTrollSlayer (347) from Kingsport, TN 2 years ago

Need other ways to protest as well, maybe billboards, for instance, call em Info boards, just an ideal.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

we are the awakening, what is going to come along and be better? Did not the two R. P. presidential candidates predict much of this stuff and the people, including congress ignore him? Or have you not heard yet.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

There are other workers movements in the country; many like the World Workers Party also support OWS. By the way I am not endorsing the World Workers Party, only pointing out other groups, sometimes only allied with OWS but supporting the same goals, are out there.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

We must continue. Without constant pressure. politicians will cave to the 1%. We must remove corp personhood, fix the tax system to benefit workers not lazy 1%rs. and much more. It will take time but we must and will persevere

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

1%'ers aren't lazy. They work long hours to siphon off the money others have earned.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

They want fairness for working Americans. Support OWS. Vote out greed supporting poiliticians

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

I don't think the politicans can be reformed,. we should just supplant them. Create parallel systems and withhold support from the old systems till the greedy are left powerless.

I like this plan; http://www.globalsafe.org

[-] 0 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

I think that is futile. I believe the Dems can be made to serve the 99%. The republicans are too far gone.

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

Yes that is the game, the right-wing party, and the center-right party always pushing to the right,. the dems are unfocused, and for the most part corrupted as the other team. The system is systemically broken, nothing, save a full-scale re-boot, will make much difference. Vote Dem if you think they are less destructive, but don't pretend that is democracy,. . Keep pushing for a redesign of the broken systems, we must fix the root problems not just a simple regime change, again.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

To fix/reboot system- Mandatory voting for all!, money out of politics, restore rights to protest. Reform taxes to benefit workers. penalize outsourcing, reward onshoring. Support OWS. Vote out anti OWS politicians.

[-] 0 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

Forcing people to participate is not democratic at all, and will not yield good results either. (it's like water-boarding in that way.)

a system like this seems best to satisfy peoples tenancies to have a few issues of great concern to them and their community;

"A person may not care about every issue, or have time to vote on every issue, or know enough about an issue, so they can still appoint someone else who they trust and/or respect, to vote on their behalf when they don’t vote directly on a particular issue. This gives you the best of both worlds because if you are happy with the political system as it is today then you can just choose a particular politician you like as your proxy. But if you care about a particular issue that your proxy might not agree with you on, then you can still vote directly on that issue rather than using your proxy. This means that you can be as active in the democratic process as you want, but your vote will always count as you want it to." from; globalsafe.org

[-] 0 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

Mandatory voting for all.! Higher turn out scares the crap out of the 1%. It is not water boarding. That is ridiculous.! The 1% is attempting to suppress the vote with ALEC approved legislation all over the country. Voting on issues are fine perhaps through referendums. whatever get everyone voting that will go a long way to achieving what we need. Support OWS. Vote out ALEC supporting politicians.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

yes ALEC = bad. people should be prosecuted for some of this,.

However, forcing people to do anything will always result in shty results. If you make me vote will I carefully consider the consequences? why force people with no interest to vote? what is the goal of that? it is anti-democratic in my opinion. The above method will generate much better results. we all need the right to vote on the issues that concern us,. and the ability to proxy our vote if we desire it, for issues where we trust someone else's opinion, or are just not interested.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

Mandatory voting works fine in Australia. Everyone has an interest in voting whether they know it or not. Voting should be civic duty, like jury duty, or paying taxes. it is anti democratic to be against full participation! If people must vote they will take more interest. Some may throw away their vote in the booth (writing in mickey Mouse).And some will still not vote. but turnout will grow from 60% to 90 % easily!. more voters more democratic. more fear among the 1%. Lets push what the 1% fears most. mandatory voting for all! Vote out ALEC supporting politicians.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

voting for representative IS the problem. what we want is a participatory consensus democracy, not the corrupted and always corruptible representative system.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

We disagree. Voting is workable if we remove corp influence and expand participation. Everything is corruptible. I hope you don't believe your plan is uncorruptible.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

it is not 'my plan' it is human consensus,. when we remove the systems that retard consensus, and the elements of human social organisation that are corruptible, i.e. the proxies for our opinions, "representatives". Then yes, we create a system where corruption is removed. like all of life, there is no end-state here, this is just what we start and continue to work toward. We get rid of the most obvious corruption first and keep at it always,. in this way we always remove and eliminate corruption. At the very least we reduce corruption,. endlessly.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

proxy representation is only possible

if people announce who they support publicly

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

personally, I think all voting should be voluntary, public, and changeable at any time,. your support of an idea, or a program, can be changed when ever you like,. the public thing, lets people you know try to convince you to change your mind,. and makes the system more secure overall. we do have such a nice global communications systems,. lots of computer power as well,. probably a good idea to use these. all problems have solutions.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

Nothing in your description indicates it can't be corrupted. And this concept that you don't have to vote/choose strikes me as the same old system of excluding vast numbers of people. Too much trouble to vote? Is that what you suggest? Don't like it. Won't like it. Sorry.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

How does a system that facilitates individual voting for all, "exclude vast numbers of people"? We chose to vote or not. We choose to campaign, or publicly argue for our choices, not this lame 'vote once every 4 years' joke of a democracy. How do you corrupt a representative in a system with none of them?

The two-party system is a source of misdirection to confuse people into thinking they have a say, and that they have done their part,. both are untrue with the old way.

[-] 0 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

I also believe our system has serious problems. Most of all vast numbers of people are not represented. the consensus system would need to have a mandatory mechanism to ensure everyone is represented. current sys facilitates voting for all but does not mandate it. Your system is the same in that way. And so vast numbers of people will choose not to vote (just as they do now). mandatory voting for all! whatever system we use.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28483) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Continuous process improvement. Part of which is proper maintenance of the system to allow for aberrant behavior to be spotted tracked and fixed.

A system that is not properly maintained can not be effectively improved as it has too many untracked variables.

[-] 2 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

I think I can agree with that. Our system needs serious improvement. end electoral college, public campagn finance, larger house of reps to better represent cities. mandatory voting. real election monitoring. And other improvements I'm not smart enough to list. but I don't get this consensus system jph is pushing.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28483) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I believe it is another way of stating - that the people need to participate more fully in the democratic process. If they just elect someone to represent them and then pay no more attention until the next election cycle - well then - we will always be screwed by someone Else's agenda (S). The people need to stay involved and direct the process of government. Point the way and slap down BS.

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

again read this; "A person may not care about every issue, or have time to vote on every issue, or know enough about an issue, so they can still appoint someone else who they trust and/or respect, to vote on their behalf when they don’t vote directly on a particular issue. This gives you the best of both worlds because if you are happy with the political system as it is today then you can just choose a particular politician you like as your proxy. But if you care about a particular issue that your proxy might not agree with you on, then you can still vote directly on that issue rather than using your proxy. This means that you can be as active in the democratic process as you want, but your vote will always count as you want it to."

Go to http://globalsafe.org and read more about what I think is a viable plan to make this change.

The basic idea is that we will all have the power to vote on any issue, however many people will not care about many issues so they can choose whoever they like to vote as their proxy, the issues that are important we can override the proxy vote and vote personally. So tell me, why do we need corruptible representatives at all? You keep proposing to fix a system that is at it's core not fixable, it needs to be replaced not reformed. Yes, this is just my opinion. But I do not see how it is difficult to understand, what is the hang up??

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Thats because you dont go to GA's. Go and check out a few, you will see what he is talking about.

Im not a big fan of consensus, it takes forever to get anything accomplished, and this is with only 100 like minded people.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

you mean using the internet?. Ok sure. If everyone has access. I think would be great for all "voting" age citizens to register there approval/disapproval (vote) on any and all issues facing the nation I could support that. I wouldn't say it is uncorruptible. I would still want everyone to .... "express". I could see how reps could be eliminated and that might be an improvement. But we are no where near that. sorry. I think we need to improve this system 1st.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28483) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It is all part of the process - if you do not plan then you are limited.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

Sounds great. How would that work with 130 million "voting" age citizens?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28483) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well the hard part is to get the issues out into the light of day.

Then the next step is presenting an opportunity to participate.

Voting election cycles is the only norm that most people recognize.

This is the shift in paradigm that is needed.

We have 24/7/365 access to government. Electronic - phone - email etc.

Petitioning has always been the peoples voice/vote for action - this I feel is the 1st big step to fuller participation fuller owning of the democratic process fuller owning of our government.

This is a tool that exists right now that we need to make full use of.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

I can agree with more participation. but consensus at the ga's require expressing your preference (voting) I don't see how any system is uncorruptible. I want improvement in this system. incorporate elements that address involvement, continual attention. and such. I can get behind that. And I think I can get a consensus to get behind it too.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28483) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well you see that is the point that many overlook and are a bit unaware (?) of. If an action or opportunity for action is presented it will get looked at and weighed - this is the awareness that we are trying to spread after all - the action proposed or opportunity provided will get support more so as more step in and see what others are doing and why. This is a strength as well as a weakness. Strength in that it makes the movements unpredictable. Weakness in that many items do not end up getting proper attention. Consensus forms ( is expressed ) with the presenting of opportunities in which to participate - the people will express consensus by participation. This is why I try to keep to presenting issues rather then expressing an opinion.

Wow - sorry if that ended up being unclear.

[-] 0 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

Huh? So you think your plan is uncorruptible?

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

did I stutter?

[-] 0 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

No reason to be sarcastic. You didn't answer me clearly. And still haven't. I'm not gonna assume. I do not understand how your proposal will work. Are you gonna be insulting now?

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

When the public is this apathetic, there is no system that works..,..

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

Currently the people do not participate BECAUSE we see the futility of lending support to this corrupt system,. do not mistake this for general apathy, when we build a system that welcomes participation and input from all interested people we will see the true power of the people united.

The non-interest to participate in the 'pretend democracy' shows the intelligence of people, not apathy.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

No it doesnt. Go ask the people what contries we have bombed the last three years, they have no clue. Go ask the people to point out afghanistan on a map. They have no clue.

We are EXTREMELY apathetic, and thats how all this has happened.

Yes, there is a large group that doesnt vote because the sheep DEMAND more Democrats and Republicans. But its not like they are taking the big step of starting something themselves.

If this wasnt an apathetic country, we would have more choices this November. No one cares.

[-] 1 points by JenLynn (692) 2 years ago

Not any time soon, as long as the economy is down I think Occupy will hang in there and get some notice.

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