Forum Post: Can the movement succeed with complex demands? No demands?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 4:05 p.m. EST by tharwoo1
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So far no specific goals of this movement have been released, which for now I think is a good thing. However, soon we will need to decide on some specific goals of this movement. People need something concrete that they can stand behind, if they do not this movement will likely fizzle out and loose momentum.
Many of the potential drafts I have seen so far are very long, and very complex comprised of many different demands. I don't disagree that there are a variety of problems here that need to be addressed, but I think that if we demand too much we weaken the support of each individual thing. It's simply distribution, for example if someone said to you I WANT Y you might consider doing it after listening to them bitch at you enough but if you say I WANT ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPWXY AND Z you're not likely to listen long or take them very seriously. You guys get the point.
We need a simple, coherent demand. My personal take on this is that it should be something that addresses lobbyists, and the influence of money in our politics specifically. I think that many of the other problems we are trying to address, environment protection, unlivable wages, wealth distribution etc. stem from this one main problem. If we can take out the plutocrats influence in our politics maybe government will start to represent THE PEOPLE again.
anyway that is just one thought, anyone have other ideas? Or disagreements with my basic premise?
ultimately, you are not in a position and nobody is to brainstorm up mere demands. demands are stupid and infantile. complaints and then problem defintions and then detailed problem solutions are great. that requires time and homework to generate, not bong hits and then a brainstormed imagine yourself as emperor of the world Scrawl. this kind of thing does not help the movement, it just gives the powers that be ammo against us and prevents meaningful conversations which have depth or open source research and problem solving because you and everyone else imagines we can just skip all the steps and churn out "demands." Listen to the other people in the movement who are wisely saying NO to demands lists. I have demands, they are to the movement itself- thats where the real game is.
"Would you rather have war in this land? Do not confront me work with me...Civil unrest could very well lead to civil war... This list will prevent civil war.... Infantile, we are all infants in conciseness, which explains your poor choice of words.... You should be telling me how to make the list better not how it will never work."
? gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 0 seconds ago
no, you need to drop making lists of demands. period. until you do open source research and science centered problem solving with other people, you have nothing to say worth repeating. your brain storming in ignorance. it sounds really really awesome to you- but for many people your tone def. Making demands is itself a sign of infantilism. period. Take responsibility and start working the problems in a deep and real way. I should not have to run through this further with you. This is a ludicrous sense of direction, it is not helping the movement and its not useful or meaningful for long term strategy in fact all it is is a giant set of red rings to give the pundits a clear target.
I don't want war. how i stop the war is to work the problems in a deep way and address the war. Not make demands. I'm an adult, not a seven year old, not a hostage taker, not a terrorist. I don't make demands, i communicate evolutionary truths. If ten thousand people follow my example we can have an evolution. If you run around like a bunch of punk alpha dominant azzholes, i promise you, all of your demands will lead to nothing but scorn and alienation.
but i can expect that we will find good solid means to that end instead of self sabotaging means to that end. Change your communication strategy. These are main political issues which you find to be critical. Now ask people to join you in reasearching them and working on these problems open source. You think you have the end product. instead you have a starting point. remove the "demands" from "demands" and replace with "these are the issues i want to discuss which seem critical to me." There you go. Thats the real process. "Demands " is itself what big Bruddah wants precisely because that makes us the ones holding wall street hostage. Domestic terrorism even when called non violent is still in essence domestic terrorism. Terrorists issue demands. Evolutionary patriots form think tanks.