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Forum Post: Can Occupy Wall Street be more than talk, teach-ins and tents? LA Times:

Posted 2 years ago on April 20, 2012, 5:57 a.m. EST by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Can Occupy Wall Street be more than talk, teach-ins and tents? Occupy Wall Street wandering in the wilderness

David Horsey/Los Angeles Times (April 5, 2012)

Chicago on May Day will be one place to look for answers. Plans were laid through the winter to gather 50,000 protesters in the city on that day to confront the simultaneous summits of NATO and the G8. There’s one big glitch in the program though; the Obama administration has moved the G8 summit – the gathering of diplomats and financial wizards from the leading industrialized nations – to Camp David, Md.

For an army of activists whose core critique is aimed at the corruption and greed of bankers, financiers and their political patrons, the G8 meeting was a perfect foil. NATO generals and diplomats seem a little off target.

Still, the OWS folks are nothing if not creative and they will come up with something. The question is whether it will be relevant. Last fall, at the height of the protests that began in New York’s Zuccotti Park and sprang up in city after city, all the way to Oakland, Occupy Wall Street seized the attention of the nation and, for the first time in a couple of years, shifted the terms of debate from the tea party's obsession with big, bad government to the 99-to-1 split of wealth in the country.

Even last fall, however, there were doubts that the occupy movement would have a lasting influence on American politics and economics. It wasn’t just obtuse commentators from Fox News and CNN with their jokes about pot-smoking hippies who were skeptical; it was also serious political thinkers. Liberal icon Barney Frank, the gay, lefty congressman from Massachusetts, said at the time that unless the occupiers organized to have a direct effect on electoral politics, all their earnest idealism would do little to change the corrupt symbiosis between Wall Street and Congress.

Defenders of the OWS way of doing things insisted the media and the old-line politicians were clueless old fogies who did not appreciate the power of a leaderless, decentralized, process-driven, social-networked movement. In an online commentary written for CNN in October, media theorist Douglas Rushkoff said the critics were missing the point entirely.

“What upsets banking's defenders and politicians alike is the refusal of this movement to state its terms or set its goals in the traditional language of campaigns,” Rushkoff wrote. “That's because, unlike a political campaign designed to get some person in office and then close up shop (as in the election of Obama), this is not a movement with a traditional narrative arc. As the product of the decentralized networked-era culture, it is less about victory than sustainability. It is not about one-pointedness, but inclusion and groping toward consensus. It is not like a book; it is like the Internet.”

Rushkoff compared the incomprehension of OWS’s detractors to the bewilderment of Arab dictators confronted by protesters in the streets of the Middle East. Others have made the same analogy, especially with the thousands of young people who occupied Cairo’s Tahrir Square until Hosni Mubarak gave up power.

The comparison seems apt, but it may give more weight to Frank’s argument than to Rushkoff’s defense. Yes, the protesters in Cairo drove out the man at the top, but the generals who were Mubarak’s base of power remain in charge. The protesters were too disorganized to compete successfully in Egypt’s recent elections; victory went to those who did have an organization: the Muslim Brotherhood. If and when the generals cede control, it will be to the Islamists, not to the democratic dreamers in the streets.

The people in the Occupy Wall Street movement have shown they can take over a park, pitch a tent, run a teach-in and give everyone time to talk. They are still far from proving they can change a country.

That's as fair as MSM can be without getting fired!

Occupy, we need to deliver. No pressure. THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD IS WAITING!!!

THE ANSWER is YES!

40 Comments

40 Comments


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[-] 1 points by niphtrique (323) from Sneek, FR 2 years ago

Occupy has no real plan. Maybe that is the problem. You need something that will work and start small. Something like this:

http://www.naturalmoney.org/example.html

Protesting will not end the power of Wall Street. Only a successful experiment that demonstrates that Wall Street is not needed will.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

POwer of the PEOPLE is supreme!

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Great post. What nobody seems to be counting on is that the movement can be both of these things. It can be the leaderless, decentralized effort to reshape thought regarding what is possible, and an organized movement within the political spectrum. The combination will prove very difficult for the international oligarchy to defeat.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

It's the only way these movements have ever succeeded.

Can yo help me with the anarchists? If they are not Cons, they are really stupid.

Hope all saw the Frontline last night!!

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I agree that it's the only way these movements have ever succeeded, and that many are confronting us with a false and failing dichotomy.

Yes, I saw the first episode, and thought it was good. I have a feeling it's going to get a LOT" better" as they enter the Bush Years.

[-] -1 points by vvvpr (0) 2 years ago

By "within the political spectrum" you mean the corporate fascist controlled false choice two-party Demopublican facade, don't you?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Why don't you just admit you are paid to sow division between all the actual believers in this movement? It would do your soul good. And please stop doging every one of my comments.

[-] -2 points by vvvpr (0) 2 years ago

Why won't you admit you are a Democratic party operative - like Skeletor100 over at Reddit Politics - and your primary directive here is to sucker OWS protesters back into our corrupt and failed two-party system?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Man, you're a glutton for punishment!

Firstly, using bold type, in a pathetic effort to be intimidating, is just juvenile. Secondly, I've been with this movement since the begining. Thirdly, I'm not a plant, you are; you are here to seed division. Fourthly, I've asked you a half a dozen times to tell me how this movement will go forward if the Republicans win the election, and you have yet to explain your view on that. And finally, if you keep dogging my every comment, as I've asked you not to do twice now, I'll get you banned, Viper.

[-] -2 points by vvvpr (0) 2 years ago

Getting me banned should be easy enough, as I'd wager some if not all of the moderators of this forum are in cahoots with the Democratic Party just like you are:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupywallstpr-tweets-as-much-from-democratic-part/

But getting unbanned will be just as easy... And why can't you get it through your head that opposing the Democrats is not the same as supporting the Republicans? D and R are two sides of the same corporate coin. I despise the Republicans as much as I despise lying posers like YOU...

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Yes, I'm sure you've been banned here a dozen times, but that's just because everybody except you here is a poser. LOL!!!

[-] -1 points by vvvpr (0) 2 years ago

I have the cojones to attack my opponents - which are the global corporate fascist elite, their Democratic and Republican puppets in Washington, and their operatives like you - in the open. I don't send them cowardly private messages like this one you just sent to me:

GypsyKing said 37 minutes ago at April 22, 2012, 7:17 a.m. EST (delete)

If you are real, and not just a Republican plant, then I'm going to tell you that you are going after the wrong guy. I'm with this movement all the way. My support of the Democrats is purely tactical, to prevent them from bringing out the rifles after a Republican victory.

But if you are a paid agent of the 1%, I will dig that out of you and humilliate you here over and over again, no matter what username you cook up.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8653) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Good morning jiffy, this may or may not be on subject, but have you ever considered how the mind works? It’s this awesome thing with every cell just doing it’s thing, and when you go inside the cell it’s a bunch more even smaller things just dong their thing and somehow, “dark Side of the Moon” comes out and , DAMN how’d somebody do that?

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Awesome day in PDX, today.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8653) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

PHX? It was, finally breaking a hunderd

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

PDX? I'm sorry, I don't understand.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

That's the abbreviation for PORTLAND, Or-E-Gone. PDX. Not Portland, Maine.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Ah, I see, thanks... Good Day to you again, by the way.

[-] -1 points by vvvpr (0) 2 years ago

Finally. Something we can agree on...

[-] 1 points by gregstafford999 (17) 2 years ago

Hello,

This seems an appropriate thread for two emails I just sent out this morning, as I agree with the sentiment expressed. Love me, Hate me, its 8 years past time to pick a leader we can all support.. and then give support an entirely NEW meaning in order to Repair our Republic.

and, incidentally.. as I can prove at my site, the Occupy Movement started near Boston not in New York..

~Greg

-----Original Message----- From: Greg Stafford stafford4@aol.com To: g+44cqdek000zg3pfeoqi002q57ri7jrz001m1h42mpr521n46 g+44cqdek000zg3pfeoqi002q57ri7jrz001m1h42mpr521n46@groups.facebook.com; occupyellensburg occupyellensburg@groups.facebook.com Sent: Fri, Apr 20, 2012 11:42 am Subject: Re: [Occupy Ellensburg] We, the 99%, can help change the world... I...

Hi Denise,

Occupy needs a Lead Facilitator at the very least. Someone to collect everyone's opinions and desires from all local facilitators and forge a consensus.

Someone willing to take the heat for deciding what is first, second and just requests for anarchy.

Something that isn't happening on a national scale now.

The simple truth is that my work of the past 8 years launched the Occupy Movement. With many friends in the Anonymous movement, brought into being from the realizations in my work.. (along with WikiLeaks, which you'll see is effective because it has a "face"), people were finally brought into the street this past Autumn.

I warned everyone that the movement would fizzle if we couldn't settle on a Leader.. but a majority of Anonymous members decided that they were having too much "fun" to acknowledge any leadership beyond their own.. and so here we are.. with no one that the current Presidential administration can reliably DEAL with.. for a prioritized list of demands OR Accountability for whether or not they LISTEN to us.

Not sure what Anonymous still hopes to gain, or not lose.., by stalling the movement like this.. but the membership needs to stop and think about this claim that its "dangerous" to claim to BE a Leader..

If you'll look over my work, you'll see that I put my name and address on my calls for a cessation to Offshoring Jobs and broadcasting LIES (not "incorrect" statements) to the Public, EIGHT YEARS ago.. and I'm still here.

What everyone IS afraid of, more than losing life or limb, is an angry employer.. so its necessary to look at HOW ideas are moved forward in the media.. and where they came from.

The Obama administration adopted our demand (from the "Occupy Demands" Page, as their OWN since we still have no way to demand recognition for our work, beyond generally "moving the conversation forward") to FINE the Banks for their part in bursting the Housing Bubble.. and Use that money to pay down the Principal on all Mortgages "under water" and/or threat.. as a first step toward restoring consumer confidence.

But look for yourself at the site, make your judgments concerning credibility and integrity in this American Media environment which has far too little of either.. and decide what you want to do.

We need someone to stand up and be the FACE. Doesn't have to be me, just someone everyone can trust.

Thanks for reading.

Greg Stafford www.FreshEyesForOldProblems.com

-----Original Message----- From: Denise Belisle notification+kr4ma22aqb5a@facebookmail.com To: Occupy Ellensburg occupyellensburg@groups.facebook.com Sent: Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:50 pm Subject: [Occupy Ellensburg] We, the 99%, can help change the world... I...

Denise Belisle posted in Occupy Ellensburg We, the 99%, can help change the world... I...
Denise Belisle 10:50pm Apr 19 We, the 99%, can help change the world... I invite you to visit this site. Since you want to help shift global consciousness to cooperation and enduring peace, live in harmony with nature, provide energetic support to those in need, afraid, lonely, challenged, and hold your own inner life steady for your family and communities, please join your heart and intentions with others for our planet and all of the creatures living here with us. http://www.globalcarerooms.org/rooms/login/begoodtoourearth ============================================= Denise,

Forgot to mention. We have plans underway to eliminate Money from Politics, but the surest and quickest method is to make Money IRRELEVANT.. FROM THEN ON.. by creating an Independent Voters Organization.

Voters Recall Service.. Union, "Block" Cooperative.. I've set the $3 donation items at the web site to reflect each so people could "vote" on the label they like best.

But until Members of Congress (and really, all pols at every level) FEEL that they can be Hauled OUT of Office in ANY Month.. they are functionally Required.. to pay more attention to what their Campaign Donors for the NEXT Campaign wants.. rather than any desire to do What's Right.

And that's without factoring in how HELPFUL such Organizations could be into the Future.. Democracies are ruled by those who Show UP as you know. (S)he with the most reliable voters WINS.

I've started a campaign to do this, but there's room for LOTS of competition by those willing to DO the job. And such organizations can come and go depending on the will of the people.. but once we START this dynamic.. it becomes a "Tradition" for Modern Democracies into the far future.. the Internet making everything more Convenient.. from indepth Discussion of Issues and Solutions to disseminating Information on How to participate easily in a Recall action.

And don't get me started on how many Judges need to be Impeached for nonperformance in our Judiciary.. let alone Police Chiefs that create environments where prejudice and bigotry can flourish.

The changes we want are going to take years or even decades.. we need paid, professional, full time Staff. Activists are going to burn out and take their "institutional" knowledge away with them..

Here's a tweet I've been using, but the public is so untrusting that I'm not getting any traction at all and could use some help..

Thanks for reading Greg Stafford www.FreshEyesForOldProblems.com =================================== @Voice_of_OCCUPY A Voter's Recall Service makes $ in Politics IRRELEVANT. Next Election no longer MATTERS then.. ($3) http://bit.ly/zb1ZAj

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

We need more Denises out there!

Denise, you made up for that awful Marsha!

You have my support!

[-] 1 points by vodkarocksmovie (37) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

It's interesting that the movement has been started by adbusters, rather than a political entity. It's going to be hard to channel the occupywallst movement, some of which has been linked with the rise of culture jamming such as Yes Men, Vermin Supreme (At the Jalopy Theater in Brooklyn next Tue incidentally!), Reverend Billy. There is a feeling of enough already in the air, time to turn it into concrete steps.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

We all can channel the awesome power of Public Attention, right Madona?

The "feeling" has been simmering for a long time, boiling has been sighted.

Let's use the power of progress.

[-] 1 points by BoycottCoke (275) 2 years ago

We can CHANGE not just the country but the ENTIRE WORLD. Centralized targeting is what is needed for peaceful direct style action, instead of being all over the place, I believe that by targeting one corrupt entity until it collapses, without letting up, so they can regroup, we, ALL of US, can start to see the changes we need. A bully will continue to bully you, until he understands you can hit back, just as hard if not harder than he can. PLEASE keep this in mind, our resolve MUST be, that when a boycott is called after a target, we all must stick together and sacrifice (even if you love the product that particular target produces) until the desired result is attained. Once OWS destroys a corrupt Corporation, all the others will begin to see the light and this OWS, will better serve the world as a beacon of light in the midst of so much darkness. Occupy Atlanta already started, they joined forces with the folks at Killer Coke and they are going after my nemesis, Coca Cola with whom, as you might already know, I and a group of others are engaged in a battle, with the aim of exposing all the corruption and civil and human rights violations they continue to commit. I proposed we all here join all three entities involved in this fight, since all three are fighting against a common target ( Coca Cola ), these three again are Occupy Atlanta, The Folks at Killercoke.org and us The Coke 16, I ask that OWS get involved in direct action in bringing one of the most corrupt international companies worldwide, Coca Cola. Plan of Non-Violent Attack: 1- Support Occupy Atlanta==> Join their site and find out how you can help spread their message against Coca Cola 2-Support Killercoke.org===> Visit their page http://Killercoke.org and find out from them how you can help them spread their message, go to the rallies even, if possible. 3-Support The Coke 16====> Visit and LIKE their page on http://Facebook.com/Thecoke16. Even if you do not have a facebook account (remember, a revolution takes sacrifice), create one, I never had one myself, yet I understood that even that I needed to sacrifice, so I joined facebook to support at that level. Help spread the message of all three of them on facebook ( with over 600 million users, that is an easy way to spread ideas quickly, we just can't turn a blind eye to that fact) we need to hurt them in their pride. Coca Cola brags how they have over 40 million "Likes" on their facebook page, let's show them how we can generate 80 million on The Coke 16 page, easily without breaking a sweat. Again, we can do ALL this virtually instantly, but it has to start with one person, YOU. Let's bring change, let's let all Corporations know we have the power to change or destroy them in an effective non-violent way. There is absolutely no need for any form of physical violence to directly affect them, all we have to do is withdraw our economic support from them, and letting them know why by following the plan laid out in this post. In the courts, The Coke 16 will take care of exposing the corruption and once that is done, and the world has the real facts, then they will follow also. Yes, The whole ----G world is WAITING, now OWS, the question is are we going to do this? or are they going to keep waiting for another to come and do it? If anybody has any questions whatsoever, please send me a private message. If you are not too sure what to do, send me a private message and we can discuss different methods according to your ability to support this. Keep in mind that this imposes no financial burden, and it is guaranteed to yield results in a VERY short amount of time, so we can move to another target. Those of you who have contacted me before about the OWSthinktank.org website, send me a message so I can add you to it, I'll explain the rest privately. Call to action ladies and gentlemen, and this call of actions does not require you to risk going to jail ( even though we should all be ready for that at this point ), and the results will be tremendous. The whole world is waiting, make our move. Let us lead the battle instead of following, and let's turn America into the place it was meant to be, the fountain of liberty and justice for all mankind. WE CAN DO IT, stick to the plan!! Let's roll... God bless you all BC

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Love you man, and love your manifesto!!!

But use paragraph breaks to give a mind and eye a rest, please?? We want everybody to read this.

[-] 1 points by BoycottCoke (275) 2 years ago

We can CHANGE not just the country but the ENTIRE WORLD.

Centralized targeting is what is needed for peaceful direct style action, instead of being all over the place. I believe that by targeting one corrupt entity until it collapses without letting up, so they can regroup, we (ALL of US) can start to see the changes we need.

A bully will continue to bully you, until he understands you can hit back, just as hard if not harder than he can.

PLEASE keep this in mind, our resolve MUST be, that when a boycott is called after a target, we all must stick together and sacrifice (even if you love the product that particular target produces) until the desired result is attained. Once OWS destroys a corrupt Corporation, all the others will begin to see the light, and OWS, will do a better job serving the world as a beacon of light in the midst of so much darkness.

Occupy Atlanta already started, they joined forces with the folks at “Killer Coke” and they are going after my nemesis, Coca Cola, against whom, as you might already know, I and a group of others are engaged in a battle, our aim bring the exposure of all the corruption, civil and human rights violations they continue to commit.

I proposed we all here join all three entities involved in this fight, since all three are fighting against a common target ( Coca Cola ), these three again are Occupy Atlanta, The Folks at Killercoke.org and us The Coke 16, I ask that OWS get involved in direct action in bringing one of the most corrupt international companies worldwide, Coca Cola.

Plan of Non-Violent Attack:

1- Support Occupy Atlanta==> Join their site and find out how you can help spread their message against Coca Cola 2-Support Killercoke.org===> Visit their page http://Killercoke.org and find out from them how you can help them spread their message, go to the rallies even, if possible. 3-Support The Coke 16====> Visit and hit “LIKE at their page at http://facebook.com/Thecoke16.

Even if you do not have a facebook account (remember, a revolution takes sacrifice), create one, I never had one myself, yet I understood that creating a facebook account is a needed sacrifice if we want to win this revolution.

Help spread the message of all three entities (Occupy Atlanta, Killercoke.org and http://facebook.com/Thecoke16 ) on facebook ( with over 600 million users, that is an easy way to spread ideas quickly, we just can't turn a blind eye to that fact) we need to hurt them in their pride. Coca Cola brags how they have over 40 million "Likes" on their facebook page, let's show them how we can generate 80 million on The Coke 16 page, easily without breaking a sweat.

Again, we can do ALL this virtually instantly, but it has to start with one person, YOU!!!

. Let's bring change, let's let all Corporations know we have the power to change or destroy them in an effective non-violent way.

There is absolutely no need for any form of physical violence to directly affect them, all we have to do is withdraw our economic support from them, and letting them know why, by following the plan laid out in this post.

In the courts, The Coke 16 will take care of exposing the corruption and once that is done, and the world has the real facts, then they ( The rest of the world )will follow also. Yes, The whole ----G world is WAITING. Now OWS, the real questions left to answer are: Are we going to do this? or are they ( The world )going to keep waiting for another to come and do it?

If anybody has any questions whatsoever, please send me a private message or If you are not too sure what to do still, send me a private message and we can discuss different methods according to your ability to get involved and support this call to action.

Keep in mind that this imposes no financial burden to you whatsoever and it requires no traveling, you can be a part of this from the convenience of your own home, and it is guaranteed to yield results in a VERY short amount of time, so we can move to another target.

Those of you who have contacted me before in the past few weeks about the OWSthinktank.org website, send me a message so I can add you to it, I'll explain the rest privately. Call to action ladies and gentlemen, and this call to action does not require you to risk going to jail ( even though we should all be ready for that at this point ), and the results will be tremendous. The whole world is waiting, for us make our move. Let us lead the battle instead of following, and let's turn America into the place it was meant to be, the fountain of liberty and justice for all mankind. WE CAN DO IT, stick to the plan!! Let's roll..


UPDATE: The physical threats already started....Some things never change.


God bless you all BC

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by Misaki (893) 2 years ago

The people in the Occupy Wall Street movement have shown they can take over a park, pitch a tent, run a teach-in and give everyone time to talk. They are still far from proving they can change a country.

If you are poor, it's because you want to be or because you're stupid. Anyone seriously interested in OWS's ideals should use the chance to prove that they are not stupid by supporting a change to make them no longer poor.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I Love It: If you are Poor, Blame Yo Seffff!!!! Herman, we missed you!!

[-] -1 points by MarshaCoakley (-1) from Valley Stream, NY 2 years ago

Tune in to any random NHL playoff game tonight or any night up to and long past May Day.

THAT'S what a crowd looks like. THAT'S what amped up looks like.

And they PAID to be there. Top dollar. Night after night. All just 1%ers right?

Of course you could get off your lazy ass, go down to the stadium and meet them for a "teach-in" as they exit.

But my guess is your bullshit dosen't go down any better with drunken hockey fans than anyone else not already in the "movement". It's a lot easier to get together with fellow "activists" and self-congratulate over nothing.

BTW, hockey isn't even that popular overall. Interrupt a football game to find out how unpopular you REALLY are

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

What's your point--that sports events draw large crowds? The gladiatorial contests in Rome drew enormous crowds; that only proves how rulers can divert the attention of the masses with little more than useless folly like Survivor or some other silly "reality" show.

As far as self-congratulation, for what? Very few people in OWS or similar groups believe the struggle for independence is anywhere near accomplished; it is only beginning. One of the first accomplishments may be to wean some of the sports suckers away from their pastime into something more constructive.

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Well, that was really ugly!

I used to love that name, now you've ruined it.

I'll bet your a big Ted Nugent NRA, George Zimmerman supporter, too.

Marsha, what happened to YOU!?! You're RUINED!!!

Sad, disgusting, ignorant and obstinate! This is the real reason the world hates us!!

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

She's brand new. She still has her new-car smell. Check her page.

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

What I smell is toxic... oh yeah! New study found the new car smell (off-gasses) are toxic!

Thank god for "Denise" included in another reply, DENISE ROCKS!!!

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

New car smells toxic? Probably causes brain damage. Hmmm, . . .

We have the industry 'persuading' us to buy a new car every few years. Add to that how many hours the average American spends in their vehicles nowadays and it's reasonable to deduce that the average American spends an inordinate amount of time breathing said toxin. Hmmm, indeed.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I have been trying to start an after-market auto-recon Biz for years, Safe Cars (C). Wanna go into Biz? Got any $$?

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Good plan. No cash. And what sucks nowadays is, depending on your demographic, the SBA is not an option.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

It would be a hilarious joke of obvious absurdity if it wasn't such a damning reality.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Yeah. I had a definite WTF moment when I heard some of the stories.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Check the "impeach obama" thread for an edit on my reply.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Your credibility is zero Marsha. You joined a mere few hours ago and immediately started showing absolutely no understanding of OWS. Hang around a while, LEARN something, then post.

Or fuck off.