Forum Post: By raising taxes you help corporations!
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 5, 2011, 12:20 a.m. EST by VindicatedVigilante
(176)
from Fort Worth, TX
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Three things happen when you raise taxes
1)you screw the middle class. Corporations pass on the increase in taxes by raising prices. The government just gets paid more. 2)You send jobs out of the country! 3)You squash competition.
Another thing, if you raise taxes on the Super Rich they just bank off shore (which plays into number 2). So raising taxes on the “rich” only screws those who are trying to do well. What we need to do is drop the income tax, drop the corporate tax (if not abolish the two) and have a national sales or pleasure tax. The rich enjoy there money when they spend it. Lets tax them there.
Raising income taxes assumes that the government will actually take that temporary increase in revenue and put it to good use like investing in job creating endeavors or what not. (I say temporary - because history has shown that raising taxes has never led to a steady state increase in revenue to the government. As you said, the rich folk - top 10% who contribute 70% of tax revenue -will simply move more assets offshore or simply retire). Seriously, do you not know that the Treasury/Congress/President will simply do what it always does with new money and give it to their brother-in-laws failing solar company or give it to aid Pakistan - who"ll buy missiles and fire them at our troops in Afghanistan.
the problem is: Lots of poor people with no jobs
the solution is: 1) DON'T give more money to the government 2) Let the business owners keep more of their money - by lowering their taxes. 3) End every single environmental and legal regulation that is not absolutely neccessary for human existence for the next 1000 years (you'd be surpised how many environmental laws there are in place to protect humanity in 10,000 years from now). 4) The business owners will then have plenty of new money and confidence to grow their businesses and hire new workers at high salaries. 5) Do something about China - maybe the Donald Trump Law - 25% tariff on Chinese imports until they stop manipulating their currency and let it fluctuate on the open market like everyone else.
Oh, but let's not focus on China Imports. Tax The American Companies who are shipping back the products manufactured out of this country. It's a fair penalty owed to the jobless working class.
Its easier than that... Get rid of the FDA/EPA. Implement proper customer reporting channels and to hold corporations, employees, and shareholders accountable for any damages done, whether to property, person or otherwise, to the degree of involvement. This crests a self balancing system. Legislate strict policy that impose severe fines or whatever is deemed just. Then make sure violations are properly reported to the populace, at the proper level of government. As far as China, eh maybe. I think all we need to do is lower taxes and allow competition to to do its thing.
Has anyone suggested we simply end refunds to companies that don't pay any Federal taxes? (Bank of America and GE come to mind)
Oh... and the company "must compensate?" So their execs can buy more yachts?
Thanks, Tea Partier. They've had their huge tax breaks for almost a decade and they JUST SIT ON THE MONEY and hold America hostage! Near ZERO JOB GROWTH in all that time, while they just rake it in and post record-breaking windfall profits. So BULL!
We have no growth because we have no savings. Businesses need capitol to operate and it comes from savings or loans that come from savings. We have no savings because interest rates are too low and taxes are too high. You lower taxes to foster competition and and raise interest rates to encourage savings.
No they have exploited tax holes. You are wrong.
Corporations raise their prices based on competition and demand.
LOL. You lack even the most basic understanding of microeconomics. When you increase a company's costs (by, for example, raising taxes), the company must compensate by increasing its revenues (which means raising prices). Profits are revenue minus costs, so if costs go up, revenue must go up too.
As a business owner myself, I have incurred higher costs for the last 3 years now. However if I raise my price at this time in the game I will loose customers to my competitors. The CPI is now at around 2 percent. I am having to lower my standard of living but I am grateful I still have an income. I don't make 250,000 a year but if I did I would not hesitate to pay more in taxes knowing it may help out our economy and in turn help out my business.
What you said here actually contradicts your initial statement... This demonstrates that competition drives prices down... Which is what we need.
I meant corps base their prices on competition and demand- misprint. We have competition with low wages overseas and that is working to keep us at a 2 percent. What I really want to stress is a tax on personal income and not corporate. We can deal with corporate later down the line. Keeping jobs in US is good incentive for lower corporate rate. We must use incentives because corps aren't going to throw money at the Feds.
If you lower corporate taxes then you encourage local job creation. If you lower or abolish the income tax you encourage spending and create wealth.
Corps do throw money at the Feds! That is one of our current issues. The "revolving door", political influence over the market.... etc
Way to demonize us who make over $250K.
While I make over that threshold, I also have two children in college, and two kids in a private high-school who will be going to college in a couple years. And my oldest child is having difficulty finding a job in the current climate, so I'm helping him pay for part of law school. Not to mention I have a house to pay for and a wife who is retired. We have car payments, insurance payments, gas, etc. Oh and I have to pay $100K in taxes.
I look forward to occasionally eating out at Chili's because that's all I can responsibly afford after the aforementioned expenses.
And you have the nerve to say that I should give more money to the government.
And if you make 250 a year then your not getting extra taxed until you make 250 and a penny and that 4 percent of one penny is ... I don't know not much at all. So you really don't need to worry unless your totally strapped for cash and make 500,000 a year then your just bad at balancing a budget.
I am making under that amount and am willing to pitch in. I don't want to but I see people in this country who are so fucking broke and desperate that it tears my heart out. These people worked their whole life and got laid off. We are the lucky ones. Consider the term patriot. Not sacrificing your life but sacrificing your dollar. Where would we be if no young person went to fight our wars. Coming home in a body bag does not compare with a few thousand dollars a year until we get our finances in order.
I'll gladly sacrifice a dollar (hell I'm donating way more than that as-is), but sacrificing $150,000 dollars? That's extreme.
I don' understand 150k extra? Wow! I pay 22% on 100k. I won't get taxed any more because Im squeezed already. Los Angeles is expensive. If you make over 1mil.. Say 1.1 mil get taxed on the 100k over the mil and thats an extra 4gs. Where do you get 150k? And What does "donate" mean? roads, schools, EPA, food safety, cops, firemen, defense, disease control... That's not donating that's actually PAYING for it.
Or, you can create additional jobs.
Then you lower the taxes! Get rid of the bureaucracy that consumes it - your money. Then Donate! This actually creates a surplus of savings, meaning you can give more.
Who the HELL is going to donate all that money? People don't do that. People pay taxes because they have to. It's collective. If you got a problem with the way it is spent then that's another issue.
You were just saying "I don't want to but I see people in this country who are so fucking broke and desperate that it tears my heart out."... etc Youre not going to donate? Youre not going to create more jobs? Are you really concerned with people then?
Yea I'm donating. Not thousands a year though. And no one I know will do that. Hey I gotta go- but it's been a good discussion. Keep it up.
I would. That is the issue. We have had a values shift.
Your business must have been pretty profitable to begin with, then (or else the costs you're absorbing are miniscule). The average corporation is making 5% profit. At that level, they have almost no cushion, so any cost increase will be passed on either to consumers in the form of higher prices or to employees in the form of lower wages/benefits.
It's really not about profits or at least shouldn't be. It should be about what you love to do in life. Companies and CEOs should pay their fair share regardless of what profits they make. If they want to keep raising prices based on a taxation from the Clinton era then let them be greedy.
If corporations don't make profits, they can't get investment. If they can't get investment, they go out of business --- which means all of their employees will be out of work, plus their middle class investors will lose their investments.
It's one thing for a small buisiness owner to think the way you think. But for a corporate executive to think that way would be irresponsible.
By the way, companies pay more than their "fair share." The US has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world. Of course, technically companies aren't paying that tax -- consumers and workers are.
US companies don't pay that tax because they have teams of lawyers with write offs. Corporations should then invest back into their companies making new products instead of loosing innovation to china and india. They should not be paying large salaries while loosing their grip on the market place. If they decide the latter then they should be taxed!
My god you are dumb.
Manufacturing is the key to any kind of growth. New products are the the key to sustained manufacturing. When manufacturers move facilities over seas for cheep labor then the workers at those plants have a better opportunity to create better products. Most innovative ideas come from the floor and not the office. That's why China and India are gaining so much ground. National corporations don't care where their products are made or sold, just looking at the bottom line. Unless you want to compete for 2.00 an hour we will not see anything made in this country in the future. I prefer tax incentives or penalties. A US company has an obligation to create jobs in this country. Our citizens have worked hard to build an infrastructure in which companies can flourish here. Roads, education, energy and so on.
First of all, it's not true that America isn't innovating. We're still producing many times more patents than China and India combined. Innovation isn't the reason their economies are growing.
Second of all, your line about US citizens working hard to create an environment where companies can flourish is silly. If that were true, international companies would be relocating here. They're not, because the US has a horrible business climate, featuring excessive regulation and the second-highest corporate tax rate in the world.
Hey man I just can't argue with you any more were not on the same page. Your talking about profits and I'm talking about trying to save the middle class. Corporations are not strapped for cash- they are making more now then ever with lower Bush tax cuts and lower overseas labor costs and their still not gonna hire us. Why don't we just let them not pay a dime in taxes and see if we get anywhere. Go ahead- last word...
The middle class needs jobs. By making America more business friendly, we can encourage U.S. companies (and foreign companies) to build things here and employ Americans. Increasing regulations and raising taxes will only drive companies (and jobs) away.
Are you talking corporate tax or personal tax?
Corporate tax.
Brilliant argument thar!
Lets make them pay... with a national sales tax! They get to enjoy spending money.
If you make 30,000 a year and you want to buy something nice for yourself and the sales tax rate is 25% then your screwed. If you make 300,000 then it's a not a concern Does not sound very fair to me.
By the way, lower, or no, corporate tax will lead to more competition and therefore the cost of living will go down.
It does not have to be that high. It can be 10% . The rich spend more. They have more, therefore they will contribute more. But here is the beauty if it was at 25%, they will save more. It wont screw them.
It's 9.75 in LA. If people saved more then they will consume less and were right back where we are today - high unemployment. It's a vicious cycle and who ever thought of this kind of exchange trade way of life is laughing their heads off. It will come to a point where ALL the money STAYS at the top of the pyramid and everyone else is on welfare.
Additionally this is where we would start talking about higher interest rates.
Look savings on the lower end of the spectrum creates wealth leading to the potential of business creation. Savings on the high end encourages business creation. Businesses get there capitol from 1) savings or 2) loans. You need to be able to save to loan.
You were in opposition.. I just glanced over what you said... Peter! nailed it!
no no no, taxes are not the issue
we need to stop the printing press giving 0% interest loans to the oligarchs
we need to redirect this money creation to productive industry so real americans have jobs instead of banksters having extra whores and coke
You did not discredit what I said only added to it. Taxes are an issue!
I sympathize with what you say, just trying to keep this thing focused. ALL EYES ON THE PRIVATE FED. We need focus or we get co-opted.
Big Business owners got plenty more money in tax breaks and subsidies and didn't do SH*T with it to help the American people; only themselves. And end every regulation that protects us so that NO ONE has a chance in hell against the few who have all the money? Yeah, Right! Go away, you don't belong here, A-hole.
Corporate subsidies are bad. Market manipulation is bad. Corporation growth and business creation lead to job creation. If you regulate less you encourage the two. Regulation and taxation suppress job creation send jobs out of the nation and eliminate the fostering of new corporations.. Like I just said - Implement proper customer reporting channels and to hold corporations, employees, and shareholders accountable for any damages done, whether to property, person or otherwise, to the degree of involvement. This crests a self balancing system. Legislate strict policy that impose severe fines or whatever is deemed just. Then make sure violations are properly reported to the populace, at the proper level of government.
And who will do the implementing, regulating and legislating if all those people are in the pockets of the corporations? Corporate taxation and subsidization should be tied directly to how much the corporation gives back to society and the American economy as a whole. But that can't be done until politicians are no longer beholden to big money. That system has to be completely dismantled before it can be rebuilt. Helluva mess.
We the people will do the regulating. If you hold an employee responsible for the actions of a corporation then he will ensure they are doing good business. Its this simple if you are harming other people or their property you will be accountable! There is no need to tax corporations to ensure they are working for the people. All you have to do is limit there charter. Look, if politicians hove no control over the market then there is no incentive for corporations to try to persuade them. As of now corporations are accountable to there shareholders and it becomes a legal responsibility to do whats in there best interest - lobby.