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Forum Post: Bring it on TROLLS, I've had a great week !!

Posted 8 years ago on Nov. 11, 2011, 2:50 p.m. EST by debndan (1145)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Boy, oh boy, after helping defeat neocon legislation in Ohio I've come back to OWS to defeat neocon arguements

So far you guys are becoming a caricature

I've won every single arguement on this forum, you neocons and trolls know who I'm talking about.

If you don't believe it, then bring it on!!

I've had the best week in a long long time, and am flying high

bring your best arguement, get your best game on, I'm on fire!!



Read the Rules
[-] 3 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 8 years ago

My premise is that my opponent is uneducated. My first argument is that his text is full of mistakes. I'll now pass the ball to my opponent and wait for his response. I hope this will be a fair debate in which strong sound arguments will be favored over brash trolling. Now, over to you debndan.

[-] 0 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

Cannot agree more. I do use trolling techniques to draw the trolls in.

Then once in, a reasoned debate can be made.

These guys respond to bombastic speech like 'moths to a flame'. It's the reason hannity, o'rielly, and rush attract these folks in droves. Then they get there viewers/listeners to vote against their own self interest.

Turnabout is fair play. Plus we have truth on our side, along with Intellectual honesty, which is why we win in the end.

[-] 1 points by TheEqualizer (42) 8 years ago

I find it hilarious that Rush Limbaugh can even open his dumb hateful hypocrite mouth anymore after having got caught up in his prescription drug abuse scandal years ago. Not to mention his dance around laws that govern the use of your own money by requiring you to fill out paperwork to make withdrawals of $10,000 and up from the bank. I think the law about the money is absurd, but hey, like they say, IT'S THE LAW. So obey it. I guess the statement on our cash about money being for all debts public and private is a scam too, because it can only be private if it's for less than 10,000 bucks.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

while the user may open and read these unpopular post ,

the user will not be able to know what popular posts are beneath it.


the closing of unpopular posts is throwing the navigation to specific post

as the post may be hidden on a thread

due to a post above it being censured

while the user may open and read these unpopular post ,

the user will not be able to know what popular posts beneath it.


the closing of unpopular posts is throwing the navigation to specific post

as the post may be hidden on a thread

due to a post above it being censured


[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 8 years ago

I am waiting for your arguments. Shall I make a coffee.

[-] 0 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

Sorry, responding to other post as fast as rules allow( sucksalot)

Arguement is that the current crop of self proclaimed conservatives are not that AT ALL, they are corporatists, along with the neolibs. And that finally, finally us paleoconservatives are joining 'classical' liberals to stop this shit.

We are using logic and reason to repeal corporatist efforts to divide and conquer the 99%

And we are doing so by using it to first change the hearts and minds of good people, whom happen to be decieved.

We use truth, and we are winning, for the first time in a LONG LONG time, we are winning all arguements.

[-] 1 points by looselyhuman (3117) 8 years ago

I would just say that "classical" liberal has been stolen by libertarians, and means pretty much the same now as neoliberal. :( I consider myself an "old-school" liberal, for lack of a better word. Or progressive, which sucks because thats actually what we had to retreat to after the neolibcons made plain ol' "liberal" a dirty word.

Anyway, I am a descendant of Teddy and FDR, and happy to join hands with the descendants of Lincoln and Eisenhower. :)

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

whew, human, always a pleasure.

Boy after I engaged in troll baiting, my hands were full for a bit, coulda used ya a couple hours back : )

Yes, it is pretty cool that the intellectual descendants of Teddy& FDR are joined by us of Ike and lincoln.

I think it'll take our collective strength against the children of mammon & Judas.

[-] 1 points by looselyhuman (3117) 8 years ago

Sorry I missed the fun my friend.

Mammon & Judas, or Friedman and Hayek? All the same. :)

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 8 years ago

Red Herring. (off topic)

Please read the original post at the top of this thread. In it, I wrote my premise and my first argument. It is your turn to reply.

Let us engage in serious debate. Arguments should be well formed and on topic.

[-] 0 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

going as fast as I can

premise.. yes... your opponent is uneducated...his text is full of mistakes...a bit sketchy there.. who is he?

Upon reading your original post it appeared to be in agreement with me, if not please clarify with a coherant arguement.

But if I'm accused of trolling myself, well, guilty as charged sir. It's a tactic I use to provoke lively debate

And it works( see other posts)

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 8 years ago

You said you would win every discussion on these boards. I posed a challenge for you and offered a topic of discussion. My premise is that you are uneducated, and my first argument to show this is that your text is full of mistakes. Now, it is your turn to provide counter-arguments to this claim. The floor is yours.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

could the counter be contingent on choosing ones battles

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 8 years ago

He said he could win any discussion, and asked us to bring it on. It seems to me we can decide what discussion we want to bring on, no?

[-] -3 points by hahaha (-41) 8 years ago

'...their viewers' not 'there.'

[-] 1 points by ghostofjoehill (2) 8 years ago

Also, about the role of Unions in WWII, here is the historical evidence from a proper peer-reviewed publication:

^ Paul A. C. Koistinen, Arsenal of World War II: The Political Economy of American Warfare, 1940-1945 p 410(2004)

AFL and CIO VOLUNTARILY gave up all rights to strike for themselves and also constituent trade-unions during WW2.

Rockefeller and Ford were profiteering and supplying Hitler; but the poor in Unions gave up their only chance at a fair wage so that they could beat Hitler.

so as we have it soldiers were drafted; rich supported both sides to profiteer; and Unions voluntarily gave up all their rights because they believe in tearing Hitler down.

[-] 1 points by ghostofjoehill (2) 8 years ago

Hey Fellow Worker

Notice a lot of Fascists are using "your simple minded" to try and defeat your arguments.

This is a logical fallacy by attacking the person (they do not know how to deal with your argument, they have no valid points, so they attack you as "simple minded" to divert from the fact that your argument had more substance). You can see "Thrasymaque" has no philosophical, logical, or mathematical training when he says that his argument is that you are uneducated; You do not have to defend against this- he has not found one problem with your prose which he can point out so he calls you "uneducated"- fallacy by attacking the person. Then he asks you for a "fair debate"- hypocrite.

Whenever these fascists use the phrase "simple-minded" they are also making another sort of fallacy: Occam showed (Occam's razor) that given two explanations which fit the facts, the simplest one is most likely correct.

Neo-Cons are trained to twist this highly evident truth- they will say your argument is wrong because it is "simple minded" or " too simple". They (intentionally) forget that the simplest explanation is most likely correct and has more substantive predictive power than a more complicated explanation.

If anyone says that your argument is "too simple" without pointing out specific logical flaws (fallacy, non-cogency, non-soundness, non-valid) actually they are saying that your argument is most likely the correct one.

This comes up with some Scab who tries to say Unions did not win WW2 for the allies by making all of their munitions and tanks and planes and ropes and uniforms...

He says something like "I won't even argue against you because you are an idiot and your thinking is so simple minded"... This is nothing but an admission you are most likely correct by Occam's razor, along with a fallacy by attacking the person.

Neo-Cons and thier tools use these fallacies all the time, but are so mixed-up they think they are true.

Everybody: If you look up the types of logical fallacies and the rules for inductive and deductive argument it will be easy to dispel Neo-Con lies, they prefer strawman and attacking the person. Go to your local philosophy department and get them to help you out.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago


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Frankenstein said 3 minutes ago at Nov. 12, 2011, 11:55 p.m. EST (delete)

where is the forum about infectious disease @ ZP in NYC ?

[-] 1 points by BrainC (400) from Austin, TX 8 years ago

So debndan, how would you recommend someone in American become wealthy?

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

Work hard. Study hard. Save hard. And think for your self, don't let ANYONE do it for you.

Also vote OUT any corporatist who wish to concentrate power and monies in fewer and fewer hands.

Then, once you succeed, don't whine and cry about how hard you got it by paying taxes back to a system that provided the opportunities that you profit from.

Make no mistake, success for average folks is to be celebrated. Collapsing the system that provides success for average folks is NOT.

[-] 1 points by BrainC (400) from Austin, TX 8 years ago

I was just curious to see what you would say. Are you wealthy? Has this worked for you? Did this work for your parents? Did this work for your teachers?

Who do you know that has used this method and has gotten wealthy? How long did it take them? Note I said wealthy rather than successful because they have two different measuring sticks.

What if I told you this was the formula for the middle class. Possibly the upper middle class.

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

It is true that wealth and success are two different things.

These principles have brought me limited wealth, upper to middle income, but vast wealth has never been my personal goal.

These principles have worked for friends, siblings, parents and inlaws.

Some of my in-laws would be considered 1%'ers, which is fine & good. And they have followed those ways.

The problem arrises from the fact kids today do not have the same opportunities as we had when we entered the workforce. Which makes it harder for people to build wealth through those principles. The system has been corrupted by the ultra wealthy and politically powerful and / or connected.

Which is why I speak up, why I'm active, so that I can help leave behind the system the same or better then when I entered it.

[-] 1 points by Snipe (-1) 8 years ago

What do you want

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

FREEDOM for the masses, and ACCOUNTABILITY for those that broke the law, and crashed our economy

[-] 1 points by Fedup10 (228) 8 years ago

How would you fix the fiscal crisis in Italy?

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

gee, italy? here goes

1) they need to quit the euro

2) make it easier to start businesses

3) raise corporate taxes marginally, coupled with marginal expansion of new found domestic money supply, their budget balances in 3 years, but EVERYONE take a 'haircut (savings, benefits etc.)

4) they cut trade with communist china, and stop their race to the bottom

5) they maintain free trade with ONLY free nations (euro zone, america, canada etc.)

[-] -2 points by Fedup10 (228) 8 years ago

2 and 3 are correct answers, so 2 correct out of 5, is not a winning score. Italy has one thing going for it besides great wines, food, cars and beautiful women. It is a country, unlike the USA, with very little personal debt. They rarely have mortgages and never unsecured debt. So the good people of Italy are very liquid, but the government is not. So the citizens need to buy Italian bonds to help restructure the national debt.

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

Actually if, as you say, I am correct on #3 then that would mean I'm also correct on number #1 as well. If they need to expand their money supply, as you agree, then quiting the euro is a requirement to do so.

Keeping score? that makes 3 of 5 so far, onward then

No if you believe #4 is incorrect, then the logical conclusion is that free trade is good, so therefore you also implicitly endorse #5 as well.

Now seeing that you overtly state that I have 2 right, but inadvertently admit I'm right 4 times, then your rate of accuracy is 50%

So that chances are I'm also right on my 4th point, since you have already agreed to me having an 80% accuracy rate, without me explaining why.

So as to the why. If italy trades with china, it's domestic industries would either need to severly curb workers rights, or water down enviromental regulations, or manipulate their currency

In other words, race to the bottom. But, as the populous would have already sacrificed by this point, their public may find this untenable, and the social compact broken.

If I'm wrong in this, please explain why, saying something doesn't make it so, you would need to get your point across, based in fact, or get your opponent to agree as I have.

[-] -2 points by weeicemon (15) 8 years ago

I've never read someone put such thought into writing something of such drivel and nonsense. You are a clueless.

Hey I know--UNIONS. That's the ticket. Let's make Italy all unionionized, collective bargain and, no, that would cause bankruptcy like we have in America with $1 trillion of state debt due to public unions. Only idiots and hate-America socialists like those Ohio nitiwits would support that. Sorry--you were one of them? Figures.

[-] 3 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

Actually your rant makes no sense. If unions cause fiscal instability, then with unions at their lowest point in 80 years, we should be at our fiscal best. Therefor your arguement doesn't line up with facts( again)

And yes, unioization IS part of the solution

so is activism, holding banksters accountable, closing down trade with chine etc. ad infinim.

And since unions helped win wwii and the cold war, I must ask

Why do you hate Americans

Why do you hate American freedoms?

Why judas,why?

[-] 0 points by Fedup10 (228) 8 years ago

You gave up too easy!

[-] -2 points by weeicemon (15) 8 years ago

Unions won WW2 and the Cold War. Son, I'm laughing too hard because when someone writes that historical events of the magnitude of WW2/Cold War were won by, what, unions I just have no comeback. I mean you are so zombie brainwashed I'm actually frightened just responding back to you. I knew simple minds are easy to manipulate but you must be, and I do not mean to be pejorative, you must be severely mentally retarded, i.e., have a mind of mush.

Let me guess-a public school education-hey are you from WI? I hear that in WI the taxpayers pay taxes to have the socialist, hate America thug public union teachers teach a HS class on the benefits of collective bargaining-imagine that? Hmmm.

But now that you mention it unions maybe did win WW2/Cold War. They also won WW1, the North victory in the war of the states, they won for us the war of 1812, the Creek war, the Mexican-American war, the Barbary wars, the war of Texas independence and, of course the unions won for America, the American Revolutionary war. UNIONS—THEY WON EM ALL. Now if they could just help the states with that trillion dollar national state deficit they caused. Now that would be nice.



[-] -1 points by weeicemon (15) 8 years ago

buy Italian bonds at 7% rate-yeah-real secure. Hey, why don't YOU buy some Italian bonds if you're brimming with confidence? Moron. The entire EU problem has at it's core entitlements and that social democratic welfare states do not work. Your POTUS Obama, that idiot, is taking America there, but thank God he's gone in a year. And this is what OWS wants--only problem with socialism friend is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money, right? Ask the Greeks & Italians. And OWS wants what? other people's money.

[-] 0 points by Fedup10 (228) 8 years ago

If was an italian citizen i would buy the bonds as opposed to having my taxes raised or extreme cut backs. I am not a moron nor am i an Obama supporter. I agree that we are headed the way of the greeks and italians. KMA

[-] 0 points by Snipe (-1) 8 years ago

What do you want

[-] 0 points by Fedup10 (228) 8 years ago

Grandious aren't you

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

hehehe, naw, just being bombastic

It brings in the trolls, just watch hannity if you don't believe me.


[-] 0 points by Spankysmojo (849) 8 years ago

Finally some back up.

[-] 0 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

heheh. MIC CHECK. Always was around : )

[-] 0 points by Spankysmojo (849) 8 years ago

Love it. Smarter than me.

[-] 0 points by dantes443322 (148) 8 years ago

Republicans now control the House and Senate in Virginia with a great Governor. Great week for me as well.

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

it's not a battle of repub vs. dems.

It's corporists Vs. the restofus

[-] -1 points by iDaddy (52) 8 years ago

LOL... Winning at an internet argument...


Unions are gay... Walmart is great...

[-] -1 points by weeicemon (15) 8 years ago

bring on those troll for me--I want at em. All those videos those trolls show of OWS are fake and made up by the Koch brothers. Yeah, and I'm coming clean yeah OWS is behind Obama and the unions and is funded by Soros and we're in bed with all of them, but bring on the trolls if they don't like it..

I'm fit to be tied.

[-] -2 points by owschico (295) 8 years ago

I would like to state you have little to no life, considering you just said you have been on this forum all week

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

Little to no life this week, yes.

been busy with elections, work, family, forum here.

But I enjoy troll baiting.

[-] -2 points by stevo (314) 8 years ago

That's okay..we're gonna make it a "right to work state" anyway. Signature collected already for ballot issue.

[-] 0 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

What state?

[-] -2 points by hahaha (-41) 8 years ago

I don't think I can get much of anything in terms of an argument from someone who can't spell it correctly Mensa.

[-] -2 points by Rob (881) 8 years ago

so you are a leftist and do not have the ability to think to the right?

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

So you presume I'm leftist? Then suppose I can not think?

wrong, and wrong

I'm a Paleoconservative and I use reason and logic to prove neocons( and neolibs) are NOT conservatives( or liberals) as the case may be.

Once true conservatives and true liberals wake to this fact, they generally 'convert' to ousting the corporatists.

This is the 'recipe' we've used in Ohio (a republican state) to overturn neocon legislation. And the 'recipe' I've used here.

And it works.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

this reply cannot be seen if the user does not open the post it responded to

because the post this post is a response to has been trolled by 5 nay sayers

[-] 0 points by Rob (881) 8 years ago

So how will these programs be paid for? Ohio has agreed, by vote, to guarantee a nice retirement and healthcare for public workers without any contribution from those that will receive the benefit. It is nice to be liberal and spend other peoples money, unfortunately there will have to be an increase in taxes or cuts in services or a combination of both to those footing the bill.

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

programs?? what programs? The repeal of SB 5(issue 2) upholds the rights of workers to collectively bargain. It does not 'guarantee' anything.

But it DOES prevent the trampling of peoples RIGHTS.

Your arguement is typical corporatist misinformation (politically correct for bald face lies). So once the falsehood is exposed, by logic, I'm right and your fallacious.

I win again.

[-] 0 points by Rob (881) 8 years ago

When has a union ever lost it's demand for increased wages and benefits?

[-] -3 points by Karl99 (63) 8 years ago

how about this argument, liberalism is a mental disorder and you just think that you are winning all of your arguments because you are really crazy.

[-] 0 points by Allrighty (32) 8 years ago

Excellent point.

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

Two birds, one stone.

I'm not a liberal, I'm a paleoconservative( google it, if you need to)

neolibealism and neoconservativism is what is insane. The thought that corporations have the publics best interest at heart, is crazed.

They are, by definition, driven by profits, and to hell with the public.

The thought that lies can stand up to truth is crazy

The thought that our current course is sustainable is insane.

The Idea that this started with Obama is looney

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 8 years ago

I also agree with most paleoconservative ideas.

One thing that I don't understand really is the anti-corporation bias. I am a business owner and that business is incorporated so I have a hard time when people lump corporations into one basket that is bad.

[-] 1 points by debndan (1145) 8 years ago

Ah, when I say corporatists, or refer to corporations, I use a broad brush.

I have nothing against llc's or small c-corps. Heck or even large corps that are good corporate citizens.

These can, and do, provide a common good, a service, etc. That's all good and wonderful, and needs to be mimicked.

Those that I label as corporatists are those in politics that allow people in large corps to break laws, swindle investors, cheat employees, or basically be shits. They do this because multinational corps have bought them, they are corrupt.

corporations in and of themselves are neither good or evil, because they are not people. Corps are good when run by good people. They are evil, when run by evil people. corps cannot be a shield for people to break the law.