Forum Post: Black Friday: Game over
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 25, 2011, 2:33 a.m. EST by Deceivedbyyou
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Sad to say it, but you just lost your whole war in 1 day. Watching black Friday unfold on YouTube, it is painfully obvious that of those you refer to as the 99%, 90% absolutely LOVE big corporations like Walmart and Best Buy. Hold all the rallies you want, but your 99% will be running to Walmart the second they open another box of $2.99 bath towels.
2666 Occupy communities across the globe... One just sprung up in my hometown. :) .. by the way, Walmart has 8500 stores in 15 countries.
Yeah, we have a lot of work to do, but I won't say the game is over, and anyway it's not a game. It's as serious as your life and the future of human life on the planet.
No, its most definitely a game. Until you understand that you're a part of it and learn the rules, you can't win.
The rules are: There are no rules..Do whatever you like, especially on Wall Street and watch what doesn't happen.
There are rules but you can get away with breaking them. You have to play to beat them.
The trouble with that is real people are getting hurt in this "game"...What happens when everyone breaks the rules?
Well, the system isn't necessarily broken because of breaking rules. I would say this crisis is so big because of the wrong rules.
Broken rules can actually help people. Manipulating markets is a felony but people who aren't in on it can profit from it.
Hey ...The system is broken, if we think about the idea of individual freedom and liberty for real people (and not corporate virtual entities), as paramount, the system is real broken.
The system is broken in other ways also, one being the takeover of government by the banking elite...
The system is very broken because it's quite obvious that our representative are bought off by the banks.
The rules being broken cannot help anyone accept the person who preys on others, who either don't know, or don't have time to be as involved...
I don't want people profiting off the misery of others...Do something of value, make something of value...You'll profit.
It's really a shame, this Chicago school type of thinking.. It will destroy this country.
No, its most definitely a game. Until you understand that you're a part of it and learn the rules, you can't win.
It is not only not a game. We are certainly playing by the rules and trying to execise our First amendment right to assemble.
Concur
“I would rather fail in a cause that will ultimately triumph than to triumph in a cause that will ultimately fail”
Woodrow T. Wilson
It's going to take some time for people to realize that the so-called freedom that they cherish..Is based on them being in debt...In this country you are mostly free to become a slave.
Dream on. The loss of a battle is not the loss of a war. It is almost impossible to get Americans to take the economy of their country more seriously than cheaper underwear.
Also, the boycott on Walmart was a last-minute idea -- not carried out with anywhere enough thoroughness in advance to be likely of success. It was spurred by the announcement of several companies in their rampant greed that Black Friday would not start on Thursday. (But this is the same year in which Home Depot and Lowe's Hardware put out their Christmas directions BEFORE HALLOWEEN. It gets worse every year. Pretty soon Christmas really will be in July.
The Occupy Wall Street movement is daily showing politicians that civil unrest is getting greater because of their completely incompetent actions.
--Knave Dave http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-now-unoccupied-but-stronger/
Were boxed in. We are spending what ever we would during the year- in one day. Were existing with the least amount of consumption most of the year while we check prices and hope of a big savings. Unfortunately, it looks pretty barbaric when 200 million people jam just a few retailers within a couple of hours. I hope this economy turns around because I think were much better then this. Buy American.
It will catch on eventually or maybe Walmart will catch on , before the consumer does. Their days are numbered, if they don't change their image!
I live in Mesa, Az and the local WalMart was not busy and most people were buying groceries today on Black Friday.
If I bought my poster board and sharpies at Walmart to make my OWS signs , am I a bad person?
Black Friday is the only day Americans are able to blow cash on Made in China products. It's sad that most Americans cannot afford Slave-Made in China Products at retail price.
If manufacturing jobs were to come back to America, which they are not, current retail-prices would seem like Doorbusters compared to American Made products.
Apple Ipads are made in china
i see alot of ipads at OWS
damn hippocrates dont even know what they are protesting about.
and i dont know why you say black friday is the only day people can buy things made in china.. walmart for one, is open atleast 360 days a year
I don't get your point.
I get his point. He is calling the protesters out on their hypocrisy. They complain about products made in China and big corporations but you see apple products in the hands of many of the protesters. Apple is the richest corporation in the world and their products are made in China. Are you perhaps refusing to see his point because of the obvious double standards? Rage against the machine unless of course it benefits you in some way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml-V1HNQ1Ak
Americans love deals! It is the American way!!!! You cannot change that folks. Besides the superbowl is coming, you need a big flat screen? Duh!
Unfortunately, this appears to be true. At least with my list of facebook friends. It is very discouraging to be posting truth after truth on facebook only to get little or no responses. Pleading with people to shop local or not shop at all on Black Friday only to find out that the retail industry had a huge increase in sales over last year. In my activity feed they talk about football football football. It is so discouraging. What needs to happen before everyone wakes the up? I keep hoping that I can wake at least ONE person up from their slumber - one of these days...
Americans on the whole are a happy bunch. Remember, most folks have jobs. Check out the gridlock in So Cal every morning. Also, this is football season and Christmas season. People love to shop. We could go to the Mom and Pop and small stores but man, it costs way more. And in these times the prices are so much better at places like Wal Mart and Costco than the small stores. You can buy your food and a TV in one place! People love that. I have a friend who told me his religion was Costco! He was kidding but there was some truth to it. Americans want the deal. That is how we work.
The biggest problem may have been that people like me didn't know about this stand. Only after I went grocery shopping and came home to online, did I realize I went against the movement... I should have joined this siter officially yesterday.
I just read in our paper that it was the best black friday ever.
Reason is the "99%" that are the "pro" in protest,"movers" in the movement,"the people on the streets" is only actually "1%" of the "99%" across the country. Besides the 98% of that 1% of the 99% do not even know the real reason they are protesting.They are doing it just to do it and think they are part of something.
“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." (Thomas Jefferson)”
The question I have for all patriots from both the right and left is not how we should organize what we consider the best form of government, but rather how do we actually take back control our present government?
Thomas Jefferson recognized that ‘lethargy’ would herald the loss of our freedom, but there was simply no way for him to see that ‘consumer addiction’ would maintain that ‘lethargy’. While it is obvious that members of the global elite such as those represented on Wall Street are clearly willing to risk an entire global economic meltdown to satisfy their addiction to ‘monetary wealth’ it is equally obvious that it could not be done without the complicity of those addicted to consumerism.
There is plenty of blame to go around for all of us. Today is Black Friday. Did you resist the temptation to purchase? It is not only the act of consumerism that is the problem but also the method of purchase: credit and debit cards.
We can do the ‘blame game’ till hell freezes over, but that will not get our government back. If we take the words of Thomas Jefferson at a literal level we are talking about armed insurrection, a battle that the common man cannot win. However, insurrection is simply “organized opposition to authority”. Eventually a tactical insurrection using non-violent methods can win back our government. It requires a united front of both the left and right. We have plenty examples of this type of insurrection that actually worked, such as the The Indigo revolt in Bengal in 1859 or the more famous insurrection of India against the British.
We can get our government back, but we have to unite. Ignore the labels we use to categorize our self and others. Look for a united front in achieving objectives, such as moratoriums on purchase or purchase in cash only. Its a start.
A Really Sick Society
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/at-wal-mart-in-porter-ranch-mom-i-was-just-pepper-sprayed.html
Shoppers who had come to the Wal-Mart in Porter Ranch on Thursday night for the much-advertised Black Friday sale got more than they bargained for when a woman used pepper spray to gain an advantage. Anna Recalde’s teenage children were hit with the spray. At one point, she said, she smelled her 16-year-old son and asked him, "What is that?" "Mom," he replied, "I was just pepper-sprayed." Recalde’s 13-year-old daughter, Samantha, said she saw a woman wearing a black hoodie make a sweeping motion of her hand with a bottle of pepper spray, sending it into the air near customers. "She said, ‘Back!’ " Samantha said. "I was just trying to close my eyes." The girl said she was punched in the face by another customer as she tried to grab a crock pot for her grandmother, leaving her with a swollen cheek. Her mother said store employees were trying to keep the sale organized but that shoppers became too aggressive. "There was fighting inside," said Anna Recalde, who had not shopped on Black Friday before. "This is my first time and the last time."
They didn't get like that in 2 months and it'lll take longer than 2 months for it to dawn on them that things need to change & it is okay not to run out like lemmings on Black Friday.
I've talked to several women I know who said they were boycotting Black Friday and I was a little surprised by it since they aren't "radicals" by any means.
The message slowly gets through.
Not to mention religious people who are offended at the commercialism built around the birth of their lord and saviour.
OWS should host a screening of "A Charlie Brown Christmas" in Zucotti Park this year.
SHEER GENIUS!!!
please somebody get this going!!!!
Memorable quotes for It's a Wonderful Life (1946) More at IMDbPro »
George Bailey: Just a minute... just a minute. Now, hold on, Mr. Potter. You're right when you say my father was no businessman. I know that. Why he ever started this cheap, penny-ante Building and Loan, I'll never know. But neither you nor anyone else can say anything against his character, because his whole life was... why, in the 25 years since he and his brother, Uncle Billy, started this thing, he never once thought of himself. Isn't that right, Uncle Billy? He didn't save enough money to send Harry away to college, let alone me. But he did help a few people get out of your slums, Mr. Potter, and what's wrong with that? Why... here, you're all businessmen here. Doesn't it make them better citizens? Doesn't it make them better customers? You... you said... what'd you say a minute ago? They had to wait and save their money before they even ought to think of a decent home. Wait? Wait for what? Until their children grow up and leave them? Until they're so old and broken down that they... Do you know how long it takes a working man to save $5,000? Just remember this, Mr. Potter, that this rabble you're talking about... they do most of the working and paying and living and dying in this community. Well, is it too much to have them work and pay and live and die in a couple of decent rooms and a bath? Anyway, my father didn't think so. People were human beings to him. But to you, a warped, frustrated old man, they're cattle. Well in my book, my father died a much richer man than you'll ever be! Share this quote George Bailey: [yelling at Uncle Billy] Where's that money, you silly stupid old fool? Where's that money? Do you realize what this means? It means bankruptcy and scandal and prison! That's what it means! One of us is going to jail... well, it's not gonna be me! Share this quote Nick: [ringing the cash register repeatedly] Get me. I'm givin' out wings! Share this quote Mr. Potter: [to George Bailey] Look at you. You used to be so cocky. You were going to go out and conquer the world. You once called me "a warped, frustrated, old man!" What are you but a warped, frustrated young man? A miserable little clerk crawling in here on your hands and knees and begging for help. No securities, no stocks, no bonds. Nothin' but a miserable little $500 equity in a life insurance policy. [Potter chuckles]
Oh, hell yes. It's A Wonderful Life is the OWS storyline, to a tee.
I'm gonna post it here and now.
Have you ever considered that perhaps Walmart and Best Buy is all they can afford? People have families, you can't expect them not to shop on a day when they can expect discounts. Bloomberg.com just reported that there was "extreme couponing" from buyers. Again its the lawmakers who've enacted NAFTA and repealed Glass-Steagall that you should focus on, not the companies who are benefitting from the deregulation. Its Washington's job to reign them in.
. . .it's a slow education!:
"Everybody going down on themselves, No pardon-me's or fair-thee-wells in the end, no...."
It'll take some time to wean folks of the idea of things-over-people, that's for damn sure. That's the insidious, fascistic logic of consumerism; so many are sold on the belief that it has something to do with personal freedom. So far from the reality of the matter. Our Inalienable Right to shop 'til we drop, may be our last remaining right (other than the right to remain silent) under that current ideology.
...Freedom comes only to those who no longer ask of life that it shall yield them any of those personal goods that are subject to the mutations of time." - Bertrand Russell
Why do you assume that those who went shopping for their $2.99 box of bath towels value things-over-people? Its like blaming the working poor for having needs and wants no matter how meagre. Like holding them accountable for buying Hamburger Helper because of the abuses of General Mills. You do realize that the much of the middle and upper-middle class never set foot in a Walmart because they can afford better quality goods. Walmart is successful because they sell things as cheaply as possible.
My friend, don't mistake me for the author of this original post; I was only making a generalized response to Deceivedbyyou's post.
I don't necessarily agree with the examples he gave, nor the tone of your response, which seem to suggest Black Friday shopping is all about economically-disadvantaged people setting out to get practical items at a discount. Yes, I know you mean well, but there is nothing people need from a store like Best Buy, and nothing that they couldn't find at a better price elsewhere. With very few exceptions, same goes for Walmart: the low advertized prices that get you in the door are an illusion. Most things there aren't marked that low. It's for suckers.
In my experience, BF shoppers are not there for practical, bona fide necessity. Of course.... there are Always exceptions. . . .
Well that's interesting because Walmart is famous for cheap discount goods. Its the reason why they put so many small business out to pasture, by being able to deliver the cheaper goods than was being produced here in the US. From a recent article:
"If you want cheap, big corporate retailers like Walmart is the place to shop, not your local corner store. The demand for cheap goods and services means a few things. For starters, the likes of WalMart can deliver lower cost goods because it has an exceptional delivery system. Greater efficiency = lower costs. Big corporate retailers also buy in massive bulk which permits greater discounts. And of course, they import most of their goods from countries that can produce at a lower cost. Importing from China, South Asia, and India, permits WalMart to take advantage of the lower standard of living and thus lower labor costs. Lower labor costs means cheaper goods and the savings get passed down to the American consumer. Those savings, however, are a double edge sword. The consumers want to save, the greater the pressure to find cheaper goods, and the greater the pressure for manufacturers of said goods to lower costs. The greatest cost to any outfit is of course wages. So lower wages = lower products for you at the till. But the cost of lower wages in a global economy usually means no wages. Put another way, it means a loss of domestic jobs to cheaper foreign competitors. "http://www.discusseconomics.com/macroeconomics/has-demand-for-cheap-goods-killed-californian-manufacturing-sector/
The article goes on to tell how its reduced manufacturing employment in California. Its a vicious circle, NAFTA allowed corporations to have their goods made elsewhere thus avoiding paying the higher price for american labor and manufacturing not to mention taxes and what they offered was cheap consumer goods. Americans now hardly make anything and import much of everything, americans have also lost their jobs and have watched their incomes fall instead of increasing, well in a scenario like that of course most people stop consuming as much as they normally would but when they do consume they go to a place where they can get the cheapest goods, which in many cases is Walmart. Walmart in some areas of the country has caused even supermarkets to shut down as they offer everything from tv's, to clothes to food items. In short there are many towns where all you really have is a Walmart. And as for Walmart catering to the working class one article explains
"Wal-Mart's biggest challenge will be to convince people who think they are too good to shop in its stores that its discounts are too good to pass up. The problem is that to many middle class consumers, "low prices" means "low quality." They only want to shop at the chain when that is all they can afford. When they are more financially secure, they leave Wal-Mart behind. http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/04/09/will-wal-marts-price-cuts-boost-sales/?icid=sphere_copyright
Again its the working class who shop at Walmart PRECISELY because it offers the cheapest goods. And no I don't think black friday is all about the economically disadvantaged, I'm simply saying you cannot expect people during a recession not to go shopping on the one day that they are guaranteed discounts and even then they are using their coupons.
When those that saw the money, Figured out How to get even Richer, They underminded the Mandate for "Tariffs" on imports", When the Tariffs were reomoved, It allowed and continues to allow the Flooding in of foriegn made goods. If no one ever researches this historical fact, you will never undue what is being done. period.
The Tariff is what made America the Industrial Giant it was in the past....This Began to change Historically as a FACT. when they did away with obeying Our Consitution. You either change America back to what it once was, by putting in place what once was, Or you make matters worse, without a real working model of Government to go by...A standing Military for over 50 years, Who is paying for this? Tariffs? Why get them to pay a Tariff when you can invade them and steal their resources? or Buy them out under the same premise. The Tariff is the Key. Unless you can get Congress to ban corporations which will never happen due to the fact it is also operating as a corporation....Title 28 3002 (15) a. all that will happen is more Socialism pushing this country further down a dark road....I have seen people and heard people Praising the doctrines of Karl Marx, Pushing for Communism...In America? I couldn't believe these are Americans wanting to steal from others just so they can have material things They Didn't earn...
The Tariff is the Key to major issues of why there R No Jobs here.
The interest in socialism and communism is coming out of a sense that capitalism failed for working and middle class people. I don't believe that either model would take hold in the US simply because it has a history of being ideologically opposed to these systems, as I have said before Europe has a better understanding of these models and doesn't fear it which is why they can have communist parties and not feel threatened. The average american isn't radical and opposes radical change, what americans want are minor structural changes or as you point out return to what was but I think it too late to go back. I think the progression of the system into a corrupt corporate state which usurps the political process once open to the american people is a sign of irreparable degradation. Now we only speak of the constitution and american values in terms of dogma and propaganda, the reality behind it is no longer present.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." -- Thomas Jefferson in 1802 in a letter to then Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin "Paper money has had the effect in your state that it will ever have, to ruin commerce, oppress the honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and injustice." -- George Washington, in a letter to J. Bowen, Rhode Island, Jan. 9, 1787 "The monetary managers are fond of telling us that they have substituted 'responsible money management' for the gold standard. But there is no historic record of responsible paper money management ... The record taken as a whole is one of hyperinflation, devaluation and monetary chaos. -- Henry Hazlitt "We are in danger of being overwhelmed with irredeemable paper; more paper, representing not gold nor silver; no sir, representing nothing but broken promises, bad faith, bankrupt corporations, cheated creditors, and a ruined people. -- Daniel Webster “ we conclude that the [Federal] Reserve Banks are not federal ... but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations ... without day to day direction from the federal government.." -- 9th Circuit Court in Lewis vs. United States, June 24, 1982” "Historically, the United States has been a hard money country. Only [since 1913] has the United States operated on a fiat money system. During this period, paper money has depreciated over 87%. During the preceding 140 year period, the hard currency of the United States had actually maintained its value. Wholesale prices in 1913 ... were the same as in 1787." -- Kenneth Gerbino, former chairman of the American Economic Council "About all a Federal Reserve note can legally do is wipe out one debt and replace it with itself, another debt, a note that promises nothing. If anything's been paid, the payment occurs only in the minds of the parties ...." -- Tupper Saucy, author of "The Miracle On Main Street" "By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose ... If, however, a government refrains from regulations and allows matters to take their course, essential commodities soon attain a level of price out of the reach of all but the rich, the worthlessness of the money becomes apparent, and the fraud upon the public can be concealed no longer." -- John Maynard Keynes, economist and author of "The Economic Consequences Of The Peace" (1920) "In 1833, a small group of Socialists met in London, announcing their intentions of converting the British economic system from capitalism to socialism. This group chose the name "Fabian Society". One of the leading members of the Fabian Society, author George Bernard Shaw, perhaps summed it up best when he said, quote: "... Socialism means equality of income or nothing ... under socialism you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you like it or not. If it were discovered that you had not character enough to be worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner; but whilst you were permitted to live you would have to live well." -- Edgar Wallace Robinson in his 1980 booklet titled "Rolling Thunder" "We cannot expect the Americans to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of Socialism, until they suddenly awake to find they have Communism." -- Nikita Kruschev, Premiere of the former Soviet Union, 3-1/2 months before his first visit to the United States. "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism", they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." -- Norman Thomas, for many years the U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate "America is like a healthy body and its resistance is three-fold: its patriotism, its morality and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within." -- Joseph Stalin, former dictator of the Soviet Union "We will first take Eastern Europe, then the masses of Asia. We will surround the United States, which will be the last bastion of Capitalism. We will not have to attack. It will fall like overripe fruit into our hands." -- Lenin
Now that they control the market in so many areas, they can jack up the price since there's no competition left (in rural areas, that is, not where I live, where there are many cheaper options.) That's the game they play.
And they still lure many into the stores with come-on deals, but most of there prices are a little above average what I see elsewhere.
By the way, I don't support OBF; I don't think it's effective right now to "educate" the public in such a sneering way. But habits like Black Friday are a sickness and need to be rectified sooner not later.
I think a continuous decline in wealth will do just that, not because people will suddenly be turned off of Walmart as much as they will not have the money to spend, that in effect creates an even faster decline in the economy. It won't however curtail the wealth or spending habits among the rich and well to do. The inevitable demise of the US economy will ensure the working class hold on to their $2.99 bath towels for a long time.
Lol. I worked for one of the richest companies in the world for a while and one of its top execs still shopped at Wal-mart. I'm guessing he wanted to save all his money to swim in inside a giant vault. You know, like Scrooge McDuck.
Ha! Hoarding his wealth. Well if you look at the post above yours there is an excerpt from an article that says the middle-class try and avoid Walmart because it implies 'low quality'. The keeping up with the joneses type of thing, meanwhile the poor cannot afford such airs.
Every customer counts, but why is Walmart focusing on the 3 remaining middle-class citizens? Ha. In all seriousness I hope those that aren't backed into the bottom-line-prices corner turn to their local craftsman and artisans (at least for the goods concerned there). This company and its execs were pretty crafts at circumventing quality. They bought out companies and switched names and service departments on the customer so fast, they weren't sure who they were dealing with. Positioning false competition by buying and gutting companies while maintaining brand names is becoming quite popular.
Well what is happening is interesting because the corporations that were busy trying to exhaust the average consumer of their money are going to suffer when consumers are forced to cut back on spending. I'm wondering if they will try and find overseas markets but as you know if China decided to stop suppressing the Yuan and increased wages their new middle-class will start consuming goods but it won't be american goods because americans were silly enough to dismantle their manufacturing base. I mean the best thing that could happen is for people to turn to craftsman and artisans but handmade goods are generally expensive because of all the labor involved. It will be interesting to see what happens to Walmart in the future, the Chinese entertain them for the moment because they help put their large population to work but eventually they will learn from the South Koreans and produce high quality goods for themselves. Wonder where Walmart will head off to then. I would think Africa but even the Chinese are ahead on that. And its not as if they can take over the European market because austerity measures and the widening economic crises is going to mean Europeans buying less. Worse case scenario is that americans become the new third world worker.
All good points. I wonder if this all is really just wildfire, drain-em-while-we-can frenzy or if there is a bigger scheme here. I don't want to delve to deep into conspiracy theory, but with the billions of dollars available for the best minds available, I find it hard to believe they aren't prepared for the next step. Are the government and large corporations counting on the people drawing the line and standing against them? I guess trampling a revolt would be the quickest way to excuse the US citizens into a third world situation.
No no no, I wonder the same thing myself. There's a lot of this that comes across as intentional. I look at the new surveillance apparatus being installed and the TSA's getting americans accustomed to intrusive measures, the patriot act and all of the increased government powers. I think they know that the lid is going to pop and they are preparing for it. The transfer of all wealth to the top tier was done stealthily, these are people we don't see, they live in a different world we are unaware of. Its only recently have Americans become aware that they are losing so much economic ground and the middle-class is struggling to remain where they are. There is an interesting but terrifying documentary I had seen not to long ago called "The American Ruling Class". Its supposed to be a kind of 'funny' documentary but instead its not which is why its terrifying, its more like a message from the ruling class to everyone else, they are very very self-aware. They mock those who engage in the common good without selfishly carving out ones place in the top tier of society. The message is 'join us if you can' because its better here than out there and you should see who is interviewed in this. For a 'low budget' mocking joke they manage to get Laurence Summers to do an interview and then they would run off and interview Howard Zinn. Then they would get someone from the Trilateral Commission, head of NYTimes to discuss how they print what government wants them to say and then they would sing a little ditty and then interview, Walter Conkrite and James A Baker. I really suggest you take the time and make sure you watch the whole thing. Its very very strange. It even begins with a quote from Robert Browning "Just for a handful of silver he left us, Just for a riband to stick in his coat". And the main person hosting the documentary is a decidedly well known member of the 1%. Like I said very disturbing and strange. The idea being espoused is that one should join the ruling class because they are the ones who own the country, they are fully aware that democracy is a sham. In other words neo-feudalism has been here for a long time it just wasn't as transparent and the serfs were unaware of it.
Thanks for the response redteddy. Are you saying you think the government was blinded by the significance of the wealth transfer until it got this bad (starry-eyed and lost in lobbyist bribery) and that they are now just doing damage control (with the expansion of big brother)? Is the government's seeming disregard for its citizens just fumbling around trying to deal with superior manipulation?
The documentary sounds bizarre and I'll definitely try to get my hands on it. In the meantime I'm going to do my homework online. Thanks for at least easing my sick (nightmare with your elementary school librarian's face grafted onto a giant centipede sick) feeling that the uprising of the people is just another anticipated move on the board.
Worse. I'm saying that government is nothing more than another arm (puppet if you like) of the ruling class. The transfer of wealth was happening incrementally, like the boiling of a frog and government was a part of that transfer. Why else would Clinton repeal the Glass-Steagall Act when he was warned by his own regulatory agency that it would endanger the wealth of the american people? The expansion of big brother is a form of damage control in the sense that they were anticipating rebellion. One of the quotes in the documentary has the host standing in front of the Council of Foreign Relations saying that the members who were loyal to financial interests of oligarchs only see people as barely human if they make at least $500,000 a year. Go do your homework and hopefully we'll have another chat soon.
I agree with you here. They don't even seem to try to cover up anymore so conspiracy seems outdated. They occasionally toss out pathetic lies and expect us to eat it up. The incremental transfer has given them time to militarize the police and prepare for the fallout. Let's hope that the people still have enough power to hold on the edge with the manipulators trying to step on our fingers.
I think the public can hold on but they have to be more aware of what is happening and I think that's happening slowly but surely. We have to get over the notion that these things cannot happen in America, that its the home of the free and all the rest of the dogma. They do sometimes lie or believe their lies but sometimes they just sit up and tell the truth like when Alan Greenspan sat on the Macneil Lehrer news hour and claimed that government cannot regulate the Federal Reserve. He was asked what should be the proper relationship between the fed and the president of the United States and he said "The fed is an independent agency which means that there is no government agency which can over-rule actions that we take and so long as that is in place and there is no evidence that congress or the administration or anybody else request us to do things other than what we think is appropriate, then what the relationships are don't really matter".
In other words they cannot be regulated by rule of law or by the american people and their representative government. Yet the government is dependent on them, which means that they work for them and not the other way around. You can see the interview for yourself though the comment comes close to the end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol3mEe8TH7w
What's funny about it is that the journalist doesn't bat an eye when the comment is made. Before when anyone called said the Feds were not a government agency but a cabal of bankers it was considered paranoid woo woo stuff, now a fed chairman can sit down and say it openly. Like I said its mainstream america who is trying to play catch up on not only what is really going on but with what happened.
I hope you are right that the public can hold on. People do seem to be realizing the importance of what's happening with the leadership of our country. The US has put out expert propaganda to fuel the idea that we can ignore the warning signs because these things can't happen here. I'm proud to see people educating themselves and checking their sources. I'm very thankful for the Internet as well. It has really served to connect people and disseminate necessary intelligence. The masses are playing catch up and I hope there is time for it.
It seems the situation with the Federal Reserve and our government's dependence on it is quite ominous. I watched the video and Greenspan makes it pretty clear that the government can't do much more than advise the Fed on what they deem appropriate. Scary stuff, but we can't ignore it any longer. Thanks again for the conversation and info.
They have to hold on, there is no choice. I do think we will all flounder for some time before there is a serious reaction, we may even find ourselves with less freedoms than we have now, but at some point somethings got to give and when it does the reaction will be massive.
You should look at the video again, Greenspan isn't saying that the government can't do much but advise the Fed, he is saying that as long as the administration or congress doesn't REQUEST anything that they themselves, meaning the Feds, deem inappropriate there is no problem in relationship. That means that the government cannot request say a raise in interest rates, if the Fed deems it otherwise. In short they supply us with the money because they print it. Why the federal government isn't printing its own Green Backs is a long story but the momentary truth is that the US government has no control over the Federal Reserve which is made up of private banks. Go back and listen to it again and you will see what I mean.
I watched the video again and payed as much attention to his tone and body language as I did his words. Perhaps the relationship is narrower and more subservient than "adviser" on the part of the US government. Being able to request only within the scope of what the Fed wants sure doesn't give much room for dissent.
I'd say we are definitely are in the floundering stage now, but it seems like word of mouth is slowly spreading. More people that had no interest in politics or economics are now realizing they must. Sadly, there is a good chance we will end up with less freedoms and things will get worse before they get better. They have done their job well and the state of the American citizen is rather obfuscated. It's time to swim up to the glass and look at the vast world outside the fishbowl.
@divineright: " It's time to swim up to the glass and look at the vast world outside the fishbowl."
I love that quote. Thank you for that quote.
I brought 3 guns at walmart today. Heck yes. I am prepared for the global collapse. Get those cheap goods that the .01 percent billionaire hedge managers push on us; do it before all the liquidity dries up. Welcome to the next great depression bought to you by bloomberg et al. Europe is collapsing. The US markets posted their worst week of Thanksgiving ever since 1942. The banks are sitting on trillions in toxic assers -- off the books of course. China's econonmy is impoldibg. The USS carrier George H. Bush (how fitting) is parked just outside of Syria. Be scared. All this courtesy of unregulated deratives trading while the banks blame the govt.'s they control. The sun will still rise, but tough times ahead. I say stock up on those cheap plasma tv's at walmart while u still can. Ha... get some.
Of course the US media drones dont report on anything but kim kardashian; so you have to watch the BBC
ah yes but wait till the food stamp money runs out for 45 million people and they have none to spend on" boxes of $2.99 bath towels" ? I think it's hilarious the lengths that this government will go to give an appearance of " normality " ha ha ha
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Sir, civil disobedience led by Gandhi took years till it got its victory. They were consistent and patient. People largely didn't follow at the beginning. Leaders suffered jails and persecution. British were skilled to fix paid false leaders. Gradually only honest people reached to the top. Some important leaders like Ajit Roy and Jawaharlal Nehru negotiated their own Marxism ideas in favour of the honest leadership of Gandhi.