Forum Post: Beware the fishers and trolls...
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 13, 2011, 9:23 p.m. EST by Dreadker
(36)
from Columbia, MD
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Hi all,
Regardless of whether you understand, believe or accept the infinite growth paradigm and all its ills, there is a more pressing issue at hand for the Occupy movement (I call it Occupy now because its not just OWS anymore). I'm not a spokesperson, nor an organizer, but I am a participant and an observer. My background is within the system. I joined the military with the naive view that I might be able to change the system from the inside... That was back in 1999 right before the big 2k bug madness.
I quickly learned that changing the system from the inside was actually harder than changing it from outside. When you are not part of a system, it is easier to view its parts, see its flaws and not be constrained by its rules. This is why companies hire consultants to make them more efficient... sometimes we fail to see the 'elephant in the room'.
For those interested, I worked within the intelligence community. I conducted covert operations against 'countries of interest'. I will not step any further down that route, as I will not break the rules I am bound to. Not because I agree with these rules, but because if i break them, they will cause me enough hassle that I would lose things like freedom to partake in movements like OWS, loss of internet, imprisonment etc. etc.
I find myself working as an engineer within the software development community. I'm a test engineer, meaning I break things for a living (I know - pretty cool huh!) I didn't plan for this career, nor, oddly enough, did i actually go to school for this career. I'm the sum of my experiences in the world.
One thing I have been noticing that is a boon of Occupy is the 'fishing' that is going on around internet forums and blogs surrounding Occupy. I just want to kind of warn people that most 'fishers' will splice 90% truth with 10% bullshit to try and lead people astray. Quite frankly, I could be a fisher... You wouldn't be able to tell unless you met me in person, and even then...
My point is, its easy to spot blatant trolling on the internet... they'll make some brash remark to get a response the it is completely drowning out the messages, information and discussions that should be front and foremost of this movement. Secondly, watch out for the 'fishers' (that's what i call them.. we used to call it fishing for information.. hence fishers). They will seem genuine, but something will not quite fit. They are not always easy to spot, but they'll start with a 90%/10% (or maybe even 99%/1% ironic lol) Truth/Bullshit ratio then slowly make it less and less truthful...
This is a direct attempt to undermine the movement. There are more than enough interested parties to make this movement go away, all with more than enough monetary and political clout to make it happen. Just make sure that when you're speaking, commenting and blogging that its all you, on an individual basis, with no sway... Remember why you joined on day 1, stick by that principle and just add the knowledge you've gained to that...
I'll try and get down on Saturday to Occupy Baltimore so people can put a face to my name ;-)
Dreadker
You're absolutely right. Some are also here making posts as "supporters" that make OWS look bad - hoping that journalists come here and see that as representative.
And journalists do come here, I've already spotted two articles that were word for word regurgitation of some iffy stuff that was posted here.
So yes, children, please be wise and aware and careful at all times.
It's all iffy man. This movement is in place to discredit true believers of socialism and Marx. I don't buy any of this. You're bad as the next
Thank you. Good post. From now on, flames (and trolls and fishers) cheerfully ignored.
Let's focus on getting it done!
Their all here already by the hundreds. This movement really scares the crap out of them for some reason? Hmmm, I wonder why that might be?
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
-V-
That says it all... Its tried and tested through the history of civilization...
Jefferson said the same thing, but he didn't have a mask or a movie, so nobody likes him as much, hehe. It's true - we are the boss. We just forgot.
lol agreed... I figured more people would identify with the -V- reference ;-) A lot of America's past presidents have said/done many things that were undermined in the name of 'profiteering'
Government moles, please do not mess with my pension?
Yes, trolls and underminers are already working...Not only here in New York, also in Germany where on 15.10. in Frankfurt a large occupytion of european central bank will start. And already trolls and underminers try to cause trouble within the facebook-sites supporting the frankfurt occupation.
So take care, as we do, too. occupyecb.org
thank you for the very insightful information.
I'd like to be clear as well, in that I want to stay 'apart' from the Occupy movement to a fair degree. I feel everyone is doing amazing things right now, I don't have near enough time to dedicate to justify the movement (beyond a few posts and occasional occupy visits in baltimore/DC). But I can offer advice/steering when i see blatant provocateurs trying to sabotage it ;-)
Elect 870 delegates (one man and one woman from each of the 435 congressional districts) to a National General Assembly to meet on July 4, 2012. Here is how:
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Dreadker, you are not nearly paranoid enough. Did you go to Stanford?
I really dislike it when people bash the U.S. military.
No i'm from the UK. I joined the Royal Navy then entered the Royal Marines. My wife is in the US military and is an active duty soldier, got a TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) while deployed to Iraq in 2009. So don't get all "I hate when people bash the US Military" with me. I'm a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan, my wifes a veteran of Iraq. I don't have a degree. Both of us were/are NCO's. Don't assume that everyone supporting this movement is a graduate with no job smoking weed... I quite frankly will openly bash the US Military SYSTEM but not its VETERANS. My father in-law was in Desert Storm and is still fighting for the benefits he deserves... as is my wife... There is nothing wrong with veterans... There is plenty wrong with the military...
Is there any group of people, any group of people less deserving of your wife's service to her country than the people in this movement? I can't even begin to estimate the number of hours people on this site have spent bashing their own country, bashing men who they've never met, mocking and insulting the integrity of good men and women. And yes, bashing the military. That too. If your wife is in the military, support a group that loves their country.
I do understand your resentment especially from those harmed in battle, it must be horrible to live and relive every moment, every thought searching for a reason to justify joining the army and being sent to battle. I do admire your courage and I’m thankful for what you did, I think we all do. I do feel the grief of your loves one’s commitment and long journey ahead. But in spite of all this pain and sorrow we must move on supporting each other because life remains a battle of choices and constant obstacle we all must face. War it’s a hideous place to send our children I cannot comprehend why we parents do encourage such foolish decision. We are fast becoming a culture of wounded heroes cram with hollow symbolism to honor the dead where the final trophy is a hunk metal and a piece of rag. Let’s try to do our best not to kill each other.
I draw a distinction between the military machine and those within it. Theres a lot of shit goes on during and after recruiting designed to make you 'forget your morals' shall we say. I think Occupy supporters should make this distinction also... Check out "The Ground Truth" documentary for some insight if you have no idea how the military machine works ;-)
he didnt bash, he just pointed out that he disagreed with the work he was given, and that he felt mislead as to the point of signing up in the first place, as many servicemen and women I know feel.
If you're tired of trolls, please help get the new forum rolling at http://www.TheMultitude.org .
Is it a supported forum... my instincts on any link smell like trolling/fishing without a formal second link to the movement supporting it... nice try...
I appreciate your skepticism. It was created by a group of individuals at this forum who saw how chaotic, disorganized, and toll-ridden it was. Many users have been complaining about that and we sought to help by making something better.
I can't prove our intentions to you, though I wish I could. I'd ask that you participate and let us prove it to you over time. If you're still unwilling, I understand.
I appreciate the effort for moderated chat... And will hop on board the minute that its adopted by the masses ;-) Nobody like trolls (except for a good laugh once in a while lol)
I understand if you'd rather wait for others to adopt it first, but being adopted by the masses starts with a few individuals making the leap. Most people will be waiting for the same, and it may never get off the ground that way. I hope you'll at least register and make a couple posts. Thanks for showing interest either way.
that link is not safe... its really at www.mudfall.com
oh really? in that case, here's the info:
Domain Name:THEMULTITUDE.ORG Created On:08-Oct-2011 19:25:56 UTC Last Updated On:08-Oct-2011 19:30:03 UTC Expiration Date:08-Oct-2012 19:25:56 UTC Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR) Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED Registrant ID:CR94897289 Registrant Name:Registration Private Registrant Organization:Domains by Proxy, Inc. Registrant Street1:DomainsByProxy.com Registrant Street2:15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353 Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Scottsdale Registrant State/Province:Arizona Registrant Postal Code:85260 Registrant Country:US Registrant Phone:+1.4806242599 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX:+1.4806242598 Registrant FAX Ext.: Registrant Email:THEMULTITUDE.ORG@domainsbyproxy.com Admin ID:CR94897291 Admin Name:Registration Private Admin Organization:Domains by Proxy, Inc. Admin Street1:DomainsByProxy.com Admin Street2:15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353 Admin Street3: Admin City:Scottsdale Admin State/Province:Arizona Admin Postal Code:85260 Admin Country:US Admin Phone:+1.4806242599 Admin Phone Ext.: Admin FAX:+1.4806242598 Admin FAX Ext.: Admin Email:THEMULTITUDE.ORG@domainsbyproxy.com Tech ID:CR94897290 Tech Name:Registration Private Tech Organization:Domains by Proxy, Inc. Tech Street1:DomainsByProxy.com Tech Street2:15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353 Tech Street3: Tech City:Scottsdale Tech State/Province:Arizona Tech Postal Code:85260 Tech Country:US Tech Phone:+1.4806242599 Tech Phone Ext.: Tech FAX:+1.4806242598 Tech FAX Ext.: Tech Email:THEMULTITUDE.ORG@domainsbyproxy.com Name Server:NS3477.HOSTGATOR.COM Name Server:NS3478.HOSTGATOR.COM Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: Name Server: DNSSEC:Unsigned
Yep, looks pretty brand new and under a private registrant, so it may be a hole. It's definitely not text browser friendly, heh. The IP block is owned by websitewelcome.com (I didn't visit that either). Mudfall is also registered by proxy with GoDaddy, though they use webair.com nameservers, which is interesting... sounds more organized than a one hit site, so I'm guessing it's a cheap hosting provider, or a larger site. The IP block for mudfall is also owned by WebAir, which is:
Registrant: WEBAIR INTERNET DEVELOPMENT INC 333 JERICHO TURNPIKE SUITE 200 JERICHO, NY 11753 US
Domain Name: WEBAIR.COM
Promote your business to millions of viewers for only $1 a month Learn how you can get an Enhanced Business Listing here for your domain name.
Learn more at http://www.NetworkSolutions.com/
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact: Christopher, Michael moduke96@aol.com WEBAIR INTERNET DEVELOPMENT, INC. 1025 Old Country Rd Suite 320 Westbury, NY 11590 US 516.938.4100 fax: 516.938.5100
Record expires on 24-Feb-2021. Record created on 24-Feb-1999. Database last updated on 13-Oct-2011 21:31:08 EDT.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS.WEBAIR.NET NS2.WEBAIR.NET
Meh. No major conspiracy unearthed. Just looks like a random hosting provider. Oh well. Feel free to dig more on your own, though... ;)
Notably, the IPs for mudfall and themultitude - they're totally different. I traced the two (minus a few of my hops :D):
themultitude.org:
7 ae-3-80.edge3.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.69.155.145) 65.615 ms 65.745 ms ae-4-90.edge3.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.69.155.209) 65.259 ms 8 te2-5.bbr01.tl01.nyc01.networklayer.com (4.26.34.22) 66.276 ms 69.303 ms 71.479 ms 9 ae1.bbr01.eq01.chi01.networklayer.com (173.192.18.132) 92.504 ms 10 po3.bbr01.eq01.dal01.networklayer.com (173.192.18.136) 111.200 ms 114.351 ms 116.506 ms 11 ae5.dar01.sr01.dal07.networklayer.com (173.192.18.179) 114.517 ms 118.405 ms 96.435 ms 12 po1.fcr01.sr01.dal07.networklayer.com (50.22.118.131) 100.357 ms 96.429 ms 98.258 ms 13 *
mudfall.com: 7 ae-2-70.edge3.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.69.155.81) 50.016 ms 50.763 ms 54.013 ms 8 4.68.63.158 (4.68.63.158) 63.496 ms 65.343 ms gblx-level3-te.newyork1.level3.com (4.68.111.242) 65.781 ms 9 (208.178.245.150) 64.744 ms 65.514 ms 65.866 ms 10 csn290.gsc.webair.net (173.239.0.30) 67.058 ms 69.243 ms 71.882 ms 11 csd180.gsc.webair.net (173.239.28.30) 72.356 ms 75.309 ms 75.433 ms 12 dsd120.gsc.webair.net (173.239.28.46) 53.759 ms 50.155 ms 52.511 ms
So, no, they're not the same site, from what I'm seeing. Did you mean the same person? Does one redirect to the other? I didn't visit the actual websites, except for the first, and only in a text browser...
themultitude.org's registrant info is blocked to protect the founders' identities, should anti-OWS people want to exact revenge. I'm sure you can appreciate that.
I visited mudfall and it is browser hijack. It has nothing to do with us whatsoever. I have firefox with ad blocker and noscript, so it didn't do any damage here.
I don't blame you - I would too, though of course you have to understand the resulting paranoia.
mudfall is? Hmm... what does it do? Can you capture the page and script and post the plaintext somewhere, pastebin maybe?
Maybe someone with a late night can check it out and report back. Style points for anyone who does (please don't come back to say you commited a felony, just wondering if there are any white or gray reverse engineers out there watching)
probably just javascript bullshit, though. most of it is. not very enticing.
It is js bullshit indeed. I tried it in Chrome just now and got the intended video animation -- it's a shock site that links to other shock sites. I'll leave it at that unless you really want details. I have the page source if you want it, though it's too long to post here.
sigh lame. you could post it to a pastebin link, and repost here with an explanation. what a tooly thing to post.
Here it is: http://pastebin.com/bEp1H1Ld
Oh geez, it's one of those. Well, I don't see anything overtly dangerous yet, just annoying, although I can't account for all the pretty sites it's opening. The js it's calling from 'cwgads' is just dynamically generating the embedded Flash. And heh, nice touch with the td telling under 18's to "leave now", hahaha...
Just the guy above being a smart ass. I'm going to go eat dinner. That was vaguely disappointing :)
Wow, if I want a lengthy list of porn sites, though, you know, for variety, I guess I know where I can be lazy about it, hehe...
pastebin.com (you can Google it to make sure it's legit and not another attempt to fuck with you)
I do understand it, 100%. Makes it very difficult to actually solve the problem of disorganized online communication here and get people over somewhere else. I hope you'll take the leap of faith though -- themultitude.org is genuine. I swear on a stack of bibles and my grandparents' graves :)
Hehe, can you post a pic of the stack of bibles? grin
Well, you could always bolster support and trust by dropping by a local OWS site, demonstrating the site to a live-in protester on your own laptop (or theirs if they concede to), and then ask them to repost here by video or something.
Not a bad idea, I wonder if we could actually make that happen. Regarding the ideology there is none outside of supporting OWS and having some forum rules that disallow trolling.
At least you're doing something. That's cool. Whatever your ideology, I support people speaking up, attempting to do something to make positive change. Every perspective counts, even the stinking scummy ones, and of course the ideal selfless ones too...
Ugh, that looks gross. Whatever, do it yourself - whois, whois -h whois.arin.net, traceroute, lynx.
You're an idiot douchebag.
^mudfall is a known browser hijack page, don't click it.
Also apparently beware of the CIA or Iran or whom ever. Gee you type a lot
I type what is necessary to bring awareness... you think its coincidence that an Iranian/Saudi plot emerges from the ruling administration that can lower gas prices right before an election??
No I think Iranians are really interested in killing people on a fairly regular basis. It's like their job.
Course I'd think clearer if the North Koreans would stop marching back and forth under my bed at all hours.
Makes me wonder what's making you nuts!?
Nothing - I don't buy into anything on MSM (Main Stream Media). Feel free to agree with or disagree with any agency or country you like. There are things I believe in, but I don't try to press those beliefs on anyone. I try to keep anything i post as objective as I can, presenting facts or experiences that my help another come to a conclusion... If that conclusion is to call me 'nuts' then great. They came to a conclusion. If its to agree, its no different to me than saying i'm 'nuts'. I like to say my piece, just to say it, regardless of its acceptance.
No I believe I called myself nuts and simply lumped you in with me. Touchy touchy.
I accept my nuttiness Off to Occupy South Beach Cheers
Oh i'm probably nuts lol I have PTSD from combat operations, so compared to your average joe i'm loopy lol ;-) Enjoy OSB ;-)