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Forum Post: austerity

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 14, 2011, 4:32 p.m. EST by velveeta (230)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The myth or lie is that somehow the apple cart has run low on apples, so we're all going to have to go without our apples for awhile. It's a lie. It's bullshit. There is an apple crop, an apple harvest, and it's huge. We've all contributed to it. But 1% of the people ran off with all the apples. Don't believe the hype. You've been swindled. Hoodwinked. Robbed.

59 Comments

59 Comments


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[-] 5 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

A CEO, a union worker and a Tea Partier are sitting at a table with a plate of cookies. The CEO reaches out and takes the entire plate and all the cookies. He then takes one cookie, throws it back on the table and says to the Tea Partier: "Keep an eye on that union guy, he wants your cookie."

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago
[-] 3 points by MJMorrow (419) 2 years ago

You understand your apples and I agree with your underlying position. S! MJ

[-] 2 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

We are getting robbed everyday ...

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

well that's because we haven't been this up set before, at least not as upset as the non violent, occupy guys are. the biggest mistake the last few generations did was to turn their back on the government. in the appsense of respect, animosity festers. it's kinda analogous to the ussr boycotting UN security consil. meeting and not vetoing the korean war.

[-] 1 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

Huh ....

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 2 years ago

The 1% didn't run off with the apples, they (and the Chinese) have collected a vast number of the TOKENs we call "money." These tokens are used to facilitate commerce and have no intrinsic value in and of them selves. We can, and we ARE, printing zillions of new tokens and redistributing them in the economy. In doing so, we reduce the value of all the tokens held by the rich and the Chinese. Inflation has long been the "average joe's" friend when he is being oppressed by the rich and debt holders.

Ironically, many in these forums want us to convert to gold in which case the rich and Chinese would have it all, and We the People would have none. This is pure silliness, and it's based on a sophomoric understanding of finance.

People who endow these tokens with excess meaning and power suffer from the same delusions as those who seek to hoard them. See my post at http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-is-money/

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 2 years ago

eurozone crisis is going to take you, me and everyone else down because of these tokens- why? because the ECB is not allowed to print money, or tokens as you call them. try printing your own money ans dee what happens

[-] 0 points by Rico (3027) 2 years ago

Yep, you got it!

Every economist I've listened to has said the Europeans could fix all this in a heartbeat if they'd unleash the ECB. Unfortunately, the EuroZone is dominated by the Germans, and they are still VERY sensitive to hyper-inflation. They seem to be FINALLY developing some sensitivity to deflation now, and even Ms Merkel has been talking about the need for a new approach. Folks are talking about issuing EuroZone bonds rather than national bonds while strengthening fiscal controls. At some point, they're going to have to become the United States of Europe, at least in a monetary and fiscal sense.

On a tangent, many here worry about our Fed "paying the banks" to hold excess reserves. I believe the Fed is doing this to make darned sure we have sufficient liquidity to weather the Euro problem. Bernanke is a student of the Depression, and he knows full well the melt-down of 2008 is not over until the ripples sent through the world settle down. Paying 3% to incentivize reserves is cheaper than having to later provide them at full value by putting more debt on the Fed's balance sheet. We here in America have a short memory span and think it's over, but it's not. I'm glad we have Bernanke at the helm; he was the right guy at the right time.

Printing money, by the way, is a good way to retire debt the debtor can no longer afford. It enables for "soft default" over time rather than an immediate "hard default" that sends shock waves through the world's financial system at the risk of another Depression.

Finally, of course you can't print your own money. The whole purpose of the central bank is to 'coin money and regulate the value thereof.' In a modern economy "value" is GDP/Tokens, so the constitutional mandate is satisfied by regulating the money supply. They obviously can't do that if people are printing their own!

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 2 years ago

when the fed has to loan dollars to european banks, and they default on those loans, who picks upbthe tab? the american taxpayer. the problem with the token situation is that the future interest payment burden on the american taxpayer is being jacked up exponentially without his/her sayso

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 2 years ago

In the Great Depression, most of our banks were solvent, they just lacked on-hand reserves and the interference in the Fed by the Hoover Administration kept them from printing money to provide liquidity ( the President's Secretary of the Treasury and Comptroller of the Current sat on the Fed's board back then... political influence removed by the Banking Act of 1935).

When we intervene via the Fed, we aren't GIVING or even LOANING anyone money. We typically buy some of their assets that we KNOW have long term value in exchange for cash so they can meet their immediate demands. These assets are placed on what's called the "Federal Reserve Balance Sheet." When things settle down, we then slowly release those assets back into the system and get our money back. We often make a profit considering that we tend to buy in times of trouble and sell once things are in better shape.

The problems you are referring to are those associated with FISCAL policy rather than MONETARY policy. The budget deficits we run via Congress actually DO represent debt payable by the taxpayer. At present, we get that debt pretty cheaply because we're the worlds reserve currency (google Bretton Woods). Though this position helps us borrow at low cost, it also means we're responsible for printing tokens (money) in proportion to global economic need rather than USA needs. This is called the 'Triffin Dillema' (google it). The world is working to transition off the dollar to the 'Bancor' issued by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) as proposed by the economists at Bretton Woods. This new instrument is now called Special Drawing Rights (SDR) rather than the 'Bancor," but it's the same thing.

As the world transitions off the dollar as reserve currency, our borrowing costs will rise just as you suggest, and we will have to start austerity measures just like many other nations today. We will also need to retire the debt we've piled up, partially due to the printing of money for global commerce, and inflation will likely be used to accomplish this in no small measure. This transition off the dollar will take a long time, but we need to start working the issues we'll face now. The Fed knows this and is probably more than a little frustrated that Congress doesn't "get it," or is so stymied by political and reelection concerns that they won't do what's needed.

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 2 years ago

wow, thanks I didn't know a lot of this will check it out!

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

It is all bullshit. This is why people are protesting all over the nation and even the world.

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[-] 1 points by dspace (47) 2 years ago

I have no problem giving Apple my money. They have great products! :P

[-] 1 points by BrainC (400) from Austin, TX 2 years ago

Did they use the apples to make apple pie? I like apple pie, and Obama keeps talking about making pie, and a big pie.

I could really go for some pie right now.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

Exactly! The world is still producing many resources, and the few are still taking way more than their share. The government has become a tool of the 1% and does not represent the interests of the many, this has gone on long enough. We fight or we keep losing more and more, and the planet keeps being decimated in the struggle of the few to take take take, more for themselves.

Enough already. Fight and perhaps die, or just keep getting screwed. You choose.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

As they continue to tell us that the economy is going to keep getting worse they are buying yachts.

[-] 0 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

just look at all the money wasted on the military in the states and in the world at large. its illogical to spend all that money on destructive endeavors when there is actually more than enough to share on this planet

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[-] 0 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

I'm not rich and I worked all my life. I'm not in debt because I'm smart. I never had to have "everything " when I was young like folks do now. I have lots of apples. And so do many of my not rich friends who work hard and play by the rules and do not go into debt. There are millions of us who are doing fine. My boss at my part time job makes $12.34 per hour, has a smartphone, a ton of the best game systems, a cool car, 10 pair of Jordon shoes, the finest golf gear and is 31 years old, lives with his Mom like a little girl and has huge debt. He just took out a loan on his tiny 401K. He has no brain. I am not the 1%. But I'm also not the 99%. Your numbers are wrong.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17621) 2 years ago

I'm happy for you, but both of your descriptions are exceptions, not the rule.

Looks like you could both use a union.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

I would join a union but they arev going away soon with evceryone going to the 401k system. In 10 years there will be no unions.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17621) 2 years ago

Wallstreet wants your 401, to loan out a thousand times over.

They'll make more off it than you will.

Unionize! Then they won't go away.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Unions are one of the reasons that everything is made in China now. Thousands of factories have closed and moved to Mexico and China because the union wage is so high. And you have to pay for their benifits. Only a small portion of Americans are in unions anymore. Unions are just about gone . Nothing you can do about it. The public sector unions are losing power because the old expensive pension system is/has gone to 401k system. The pension system costs way too much That is why every big city and state are billions in the red with their pension systems. Billions. And billions. Google it. Check out San Diego and Long Beach or LA for instance. All in the red billions.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17621) 2 years ago

GATT, is the MAIN reason jobs went to China, not unions. That move put downward pressure on wages. Notice that they stagnated from that time on.

Please stop with corporate propaganda. It's tiresome.

You most likely need one worst of all.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Really, it's not propaganda. Unions cost more. Just on the news yesterday, a large refridgerator co in a little town in Michigan is moving to Mexico. All 2000 folks in the little town losing their jobs. Governer even offered no taxes and lots of things to make them stay. Union wages and benifits just cost too much. Just another of thousands of plants going to Mexico and China. I'm not trying to be negative, it is just over for the unions. Union backed pensions are going away. Really. All large cities and States are going to them. This is no bull. It is going on in my own large city. Google cities going to 401k retirements and you will see. Unions will not be needed because you can't bargin a 401k. The old style pension is going away because there is no money and States and cities cannot print money out of thin air like the Fed. America;s pensions are billions in the red. I know my city is.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17621) 2 years ago

GATT is what made that so. You completely missed it More unionization would help ease all those things. It's wallstreet forcing that issue. Have fun letting Wallstreet gamble with your cheezy 401. Everything you said is propaganda. Put out by the propaganda mills like CATO and Heritage. Go check their web sites if you don't believe me. I have.

Wallstreet wants those pensions gone , so they can gamble more, with fewer guarantees.

If pensions are underfunded, who did that?

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Sorry, it is too late. They will all be gone soon. No matter what you and I think. Also, it's not just that the pensions were underfunded but there were too many golden handshakes. You have to know that. Like the retired sheriff down the street that gets 96% of what he was making when he was working. My own Brother retired from a big city in LA and he told me he gets an obscene retirement The unions did that. Times those folks by the millions in America. Retirement is not supposed to be full pay. You just do not get it .

[-] 2 points by shooz (17621) 2 years ago

You're the one who doesn't get it. I am retired.

You have proof of these " golden handshakes"?

I do have proof of "golden parachutes" $100,000,000+, golden parachutes.

I sorry you won't bargain for better work conditions, or benefits. That's just sad.

The unions won't be gone because of what I think. They will be gone because of the propaganda you "believe".

Did you check those web sites? Did you notice who funds them? Did consider how much they are making on GATT? That's trade policy backed by the lot of the big banks and corporations.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Yes, I have proof, I live in a huge city. One of my best friends got the golden handshake. Makes what he did while working. He braggs about it. Those days are gone . Like I said before, it does not matter what you and I think, The days of the unions are gone forever.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17621) 2 years ago

I sorry you are so weak.

My union is still around. Others too.

Union Yes!

Nice of you to ignore the rest of what I said.

Have fun with the Koch Bros..............:) They hate you.

[-] 1 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

They are robbing you everyday ... And you haven't figured it out yet ... But when TSHTF nobody is going to except your dollars

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

I'm doing ok. No worries.

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

and how is your economy doing? what is your national debt? you didn't have anything to do with that but still your country is in a deep crisis. why? that is the reason for these protests, not because some kid can't pay back his loan. i don't borrow money, i save then buy. if i can't afford it i let it slide.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

I would like a hot tub. We have wanted one for years. But we hold off because we cannot afford one. Not yet. A lot of folks would buy one anyway. A young friend of mine just bought a nice swimming pool on their credit card! $40,000!!!! That is what is wrong with America.

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

how is the american economy doing? the american national debt? how did it get that way? that is the reason for these protests.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

Yup, part of it is true. But Americans used their homes as ATM's and a huge part of it is the American homeowner. Greed. Pools, granite countertops. Trips, boats. Americans did re fi's when their ordinary homes were worth $500,000 on paper. Now they are worth $200,000. I know some of these folks. I have a work friend that got a credit card tied to her home and she would spend money like there was no end. Finally at a resturant with her family she went to pay the bill with her house money and the resturant told her that her card was frozen. She called the bank the next day and found out that her home was now worth only $200,000. She should lose her house. No one should pay for it or bail her out.

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

but we should bail out the people who speculated with other people's money.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

No, that would be wrong. When I was a pup the word "bailout" did not exist. We should not bailout anyone. If you fail, you fail and start over.

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

mandodod, please look at this video and pay special attention to how their statistics are filtered. very fascinating.

http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

when were you a pup?

[-] 0 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 2 years ago

I'm in a similar place. I always tell my kids its not what you make its what you spend. I have friends that make 6 fig. incomes and are buried in debt , because they spend 20% more then they make and borrow to do it. But ur wrong you are part of the 99% whether u like it or not. That said, maybe your one of those people that hate the poor and admire the rich. Wake up , the rich hate you and I and want to steal our savings if they can.

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 2 years ago

My friend down the street makes $175,000 a year but the spend $1500 a month at Costco on crap and live on the edge. I do not. That is what is wrong with America. I know tons of folks just like him.

[-] -1 points by Fivepercent (39) 2 years ago

Sure, borrow more money. There's no reason to stop. Why creditors will just lend us more, forever. Everyone knows that, even the Greeks. LOL.

[-] -1 points by cityrep (20) 2 years ago

Please take a class in basic economics. Rich people haven't stolen the wealth of poor people. That isn't how they got rich.

[-] 3 points by shooz (17621) 2 years ago

Get a bit more advanced and take lessons in socioeconomics and find out how they do it. It takes a lot more than the basics.

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 2 years ago

I'd like to see John Corzine in handcuffs.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17621) 2 years ago

Him and a whole lot of other CEOs.

[-] 2 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

When you take you take away form everyone else. period.

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 2 years ago

James Giddens, the court-appointed trustee liquidating the MF Global Inc broker-dealer unit, is also trying to locate the missing $600 million. Earlier this month, Giddens transferred accounts of about 17,000 MF Global commodities customers to other brokers to save them from liquidation, along with roughly $1.5 billion in collateral associated with those accounts.

So $600 Million is outright missing. What was that about the mega-rich not stealing wealth? What planet do you live on? Obviously not the one MF Global thieves and the rest of us suckers do. As for the other $1.5 Billion that MF Global "lost"... they had to transfer those accounts (there isn't any real money to transfer, that's why they can't liquidate those accounts) to other brokers. Those suckers (17,000 of them) can wait until a later date to find out they got fleeced.

You need to wake up pal, you're a fool. Hear that sucking sound? That's your future being stolen out from under you.

[-] -1 points by hahaha (-41) 2 years ago

Bullshit. Plant a tree and get more apples.

[-] -2 points by LaraLittletree (-850) from Scarsdale, NY 2 years ago

Austerity is a policy of deficit-cutting, lower spending, and a reduction in the amount of benefits and public services provided. Austerity policies are often used by governments to reduce their deficit spending."Austerity" was named the word of the year by Merriam-Webster in 2010. Austerity may benefit this country.

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 2 years ago

austerity means getting by on less, whether you choose it or it is forced on you - make no mistake, the medicine you speak of will be for us chickens, don't expect the congressmen who cut our benefits or their cronies to do anything but vote themselves raises and pass out the bonuses. That's austerity. It sucks.

[-] -2 points by MartinVanBuren (2) from Kane, PA 2 years ago

Austerity means the money goes back to the people and the 99% spend it, not the government.

[-] 3 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

What? Austerity means the government cuts back on all programs of social uplift, while trying to pay down the national debt, and all the compounded interest the bankers demand. There is no reason the private for-profit banksters should be allowed to create the money (the current system), we the people should be creating debt free and interest free money through our democratic government. Not giving 40-50 percent of every dollar spent to private for profit bankers (in the form of interest), for doing nothing.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

the government is the means of distributing the apples to the middle class, and the poor, this distribution is done through a tax code. when this is done properly the middle class grows, which entices the poor to innovate so they can become middle class, and every once in a while one of those innovations revolutionizes the world which is the evolution of the world. no?

[-] 0 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

It's not working

[-] 1 points by skizzy (445) 2 years ago

Ya if only ... The money is worthless ... And the whole world is going to blam the USA