Forum Post: AT&T wants workers to pay
Posted 12 years ago on March 7, 2012, 2:08 p.m. EST by GirlFriday
(17435)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
AT&T recently lost $4 billion in a failed attempt to merge with T-Mobile. The company wants to push those costs onto workers by reducing benefits and threatening layoffs--even though AT&T is still enormously profitable.
"It's [AT&T CEO] Randall Stevenson's $4 billion mistake, not ours," said Clifford Kay, echoing the signs held by the protesters. Kay said that health insurance for his family might go from $160 a month to over $400 if the company gets its way in negotiations. "They're trying to get out of it," he said.
http://socialistworker.org/2012/03/05/att-wants-workers-to-pay
I´m so looking forward to the time when workers and communities get together, and throw the CEOs and executives out and start running the workplaces by themselves.
Occupy your workplace!
yours s sff
So management can get employees to pay for the costs of their fuck ups and then also lay claim to all the profits when they do something right?
And people ask why OWS protests against people in management.
Actually, the government denied the merger after signalling that they would approve it. ATT doesn't make 4 billion in commitments without knowing they will be successful. Check with the Obama administration about fucking that deal up.
So going back to one Phone Company would be cool with you?
Where's the free enterprise with that?
It seems to me that the cell phone companies are quickly becoming an unregulated monopoly.
I think it would be more efficient for the government to operate all cell towers and provide service for about $10/mo for everybody, and we bought our phones, which of course would be much cheaper.
Why shouldn’t America act it actually wants to be competitive with the rest of the world.
You would let government employees operate the massive back office required to keep 150 million cell phones straight? You have more faith in government competence than I do. :) Imagine the DMV on steroids. :)
What exact difference in competition would there be if ATT bought T Mobile? ATT customers would receive 4G faster than they will now but pricing has been stable between ATT and Verizon for years and they are the only ones that matter, let the rest of them be absorbed.
You commies always think if the government would just take over all these for profit services you would get the same level of performance for 15% of the cost. The reality is it would benefit the government to provide less service and charge the same or more money for it.
You will get to live this experience when Obamacare kicks in and millions of 30 somethings are suddenly paying 300 a month for something they wouldn't have purchased if they weren't forced to. It will be fucking hilarious. :)
In the case of Medicaid we get better service for less than 15% cost. We trust the government with nuclear weapons, so you think we shouldn't do that? The government built the post office,( it's private basically now except for the rules the GOP write to try and kill it) and it runs the largest most efficient back office in the world.
You monarchists are always trying to stick all of America into a trust fund for your King. Still pining old King George are you?
Does it ever bother you guys that most of what you say simply isn't true? Medicaid is rife with fraud and excessive cost, as is Medicare. Paperwork and the bureaucracy to run it adds 20% to those costs.
You do know the USPS can't pay it's bills don't you? It is the poster agency for government inefficiency. Does reality ever darken your doorway?
So your saying paying 30% to private is better, the private where the first response is to deny everything because it's cheaper to run the paper work than pay the claims.
How many people pull millions per year out of Medicaid for themselves? None.
Yet plenty do in the private sector, what kind of "truth" are you talking about one approved by the GOP? The only reason the USPO is having any trouble at all is the GOP forces them to fund their pension for 75 years, if that's such a good idea let's make everybody do it, of course you know all this already.
Rep Davis, Tom [VA-11] Danny Davis [D-IL7] John McHugh [R-NY23] Henry Waxman [D-CA30]
Those were the sponsors of that bill you are referring to facts....it was a bi-partisan bill passed with a voice vote. That is very clear from the sponsorship....
What is also clear is that there is no record for you to back up your claim that it was a GOP bill...but you will keep repeating it won't you?
Your points haven't changed my response is below.
It is amazing to me that you actually think that you will convince people that the D's and the R's felt pretty much the same about the public option, I mean really how stupid do you think people are?
Rep Davis, Tom [VA-11] Danny Davis [D-IL7] John McHugh [R-NY23] Henry Waxman [D-CA30]
That was in response to your claim that the GOP bears the whole responsibility for the legislation which required them (the Post Office) to prefund their pensions etc....simply not true. The sponsors of that 2006 bill were equally divided between the two parties - and since there is no record of the voice vote, there is no way to determine how the votes went according to party.
As for the health care reform process:
The (Healthcare) bill that’s coming through the House, with or without the public option, isn’t good for America. — Rep. John Adler (D-NJ)
Bluntly put, this is the political reality: First, the battle for public opinion has been lost. Comprehensive health care has been lost. If it fails, as appears possible, Democrats will face the brunt of the electorate’s reaction. If it passes, however, Democrats will face a far greater calamitous reaction at the polls. Wishing, praying or pretending will not change these outcomes. — Patrick H. Caddell & Douglas E. Schoen
One day after the Senate Finance Committee approved a measure without a “public option,” the question on Capitol Hill was how President Obama could reconcile the deep divisions within his party on the issue. ....With Democrats split, an array of compromises are being floated — including the nonprofit cooperatives in the Finance Committee bill and the latest idea to capture some Democrats’ fancy, leaving the public option to the states. But economists say few would fulfill Mr. Obama’s stated goal of injecting “choice and competition” into the http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/15/health/policy/15public.html
I'm sure I can find a lot more sources to prove that the Democrats were divided about the Public Option.
There is plenty of efforts today led by D's to remove the requirement from the post office and being blocked by the GOP leader.
The R's were much less divided if at all, they were uniformly against it that's my point.
Why don't you source some of the "efforts" instead of continuing to try to convince others that the GOP bears all responsibility for anything you happen to dislike and the poor Dems are unable to do anything to over come them....including when they had both houses of congress!
If anyone is actually interested in doing a bit of reading on all of the reasons that the post office is in financial trouble, here's good place to start...
http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/usps
Its doubtful though that anyone here will take the time to read up on the entire issue - it is so much easier to read the blogs and so on that point the finger of blame to the GOP.......
Ahh you can always trust the CATO institute.
Tell you what you source anything that the GOP has done that you support, as it seems your only purpose is to obtain votes for them. All you ever do is make the point that the D's are not perfect, nobody ever said they were. What I have said is that the GOP is useless and without any reason for any of them to be in office. All that you have provided just makes that point, by showing how the dems have real debates to find what is best while the GOP just fight for the rich at every point.
[-] 2 points by factsrfun (1941) 2 days ago
Fact per your own post all the GOP voted against the public option, how dense can you be?
Fact most democrats voted for the public option.
Fact if they had not counted the GOP votes we would have a public option.
Fact voting for a Republican is the same as treason.
The Nation: Democrats Vote Down Public Option by John Nichols September 30, 2009
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113335110
The bill failed when five "moderate" Democrats voted against the bill, against their party, against their president, and essentially against their own best interests."
http://www.examiner.com/congress-in-national/will-public-option-pass-you-bet#ixzz1pmXdwkJb
Public Option Health Care Reform Voted Down By Democratic Congress… Anyone Else See The Problem With That Headline? Published by Andrew Dat on October 9, 2009
http://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2009/10/09/public-option-health-care-reform-voted-down-by-democratic-congress-anyone-else-see-the-problem-with-that-headline/
FACT - You are beating a dead horse.
Let's see five out of how many?
You do have a dead horse there, but you did do a good job of showing how the GOP with a few dems killed the public option.
by factsrfun (1755) 9 hours ago...So you present as a "fact" that the GOP palyed NO role in defeating the public option?
Your purpose here is to lie and distort, that is clear as day.
LOL. Keep trying.
I repeat, my purpose is to make sure that facts are not distorted. You wrote that the GOP is responsible for the fact that there is no public option in health care.
Facts are that without the division in the Democrat party - who held both houses of congress and didn't need one GOP vote to pass a bill with a public option - one could have been achieved.
It is your "opinion" that the GOP is useless. It is not a "fact".
And add this.........It is a fact that the GOP did not need to vote for or against any Public Option - because the Democrats could not come up with one that their own Party could agree upon - therefore, there was no Public Option in the final bill that the Democrats crafted.
Fact per your own post all the GOP voted against the public option, how dense can you be?
Fact most democrats voted for the public option.
Fact if they had not counted the GOP votes we would have a public option.
Fact voting for a Republican is the same as treason.
No, my purpose is to make sure that facts are not distorted. You wrote that the GOP is responsible for the fact that there is no public option in health care.
Facts are that without the division in the Democrat party - who held both houses of congress and didn't need one vote to pass a bill with a public option - one could have been achieved.
It is your "opinion" that the GOP is useless. It is not a "fact".
So you present as a "fact" that the GOP palyed NO role in defeating the public option?
Your purpose here is to lie and distort, that is clear as day.
The very best part of Obamacare is that you will actually get to experience the effects in your lifetime. You'll long for the days when a for profit insurance company had to compete for your business by actually offering better coverage than the next guy. The government doesn't have to give you anything they don't want to pay for...and they won't. Who will you complain to?
If a for profit insurance company actually fails to pay for the coverage you both agreed to they can be sued, you can't sue the government. When you are lying there dying because kidney transplants are actuarialy denied because of your age group (55) and you aren't worth spending the money on I have a feeling your last words will be; "those fucking Republicans". :)
If it fails on a grand scale maybe we can be as good as the French and get single payer that is what works best all over the world.
I don’t deign that the GOP did a great job of making Health Care Reform weaker by not including a public option, they knew the private sector could never really compete with a government run system, even if that system got no extra government funding other than the same payments the private sector would receive. The public option would have removed almost all of the problems they bring up now, and I think we should put it back into the plan with the very first change.
There we go twisting the facts again "facts"....
Obamacare passed the Senate on December 24, 2009, by a vote of 60–39 with all Democrats and two Independents voting for, and all Republicans voting against. It passed the House of Representatives on March 21, 2010, by a vote of 219–212, with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against the bill.
The Democrats had the majority in both houses of congress - they didn't need one vote from the Republicans to pass that law. The Democrats were divided on the Public Option...
Democrats Divided Over Reid Proposal for Public Option
"Senate Democrats voiced deep disagreements on Tuesday over the idea of a government-run health insurance plan, suggesting that the decision by the majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, to include a public plan in major health care legislation had failed, at least initially, to unite his caucus. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/health/policy/28health.html
I DO like your name...because "FACTS" are fun....
I got it this is Ried's bill for public option, I'm having trobule finding Boner's bill for the public option could you tell me when he introduced it?
OK here's your chance just list ALL the GOP that voted for public option at any time if it was ever more than 50% you got a point.
Again, I don't need to list what the Republicans did. The Democrats had the majority in BOTH houses of congress and did not need ONE Republican vote to pass it. And in the Senate, they passed it without one Republican vote. And in the House, 32 Democrats joined 175 Republicans in no votes.
The Dems themselves destroyed the Public Option and none of your misleading tactics can change that fact.
So let's see ~200 to 32 yep without the Republicans we would have a public option, thank you for the proof.
Nice try....! Without Democrats themselves being divided on the issue of a public option, yes, we would have a public option (and without needing ONE Republican vote to have gotten it).
When compared to each other some of the D’s look bad, but when compared to the R’s almost all the D’s look golden.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/going-it-alone-on-health-care-dems-face-tug-of-war-over-public-option.php
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/09/nation/la-na-health-senate9-2009dec09
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/24/public-option-headed-for_n_299232.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/24/blue-dog-opposition-to-pu_n_298637.html
If only the GOP had, no votes then we would have the Bill the D's wanted and we deserved.
Here's the details:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/thomas
Nice try.....once again when it is pointed out to you that one of your statements is not factual, instead of modifying the statement to more accurately reflect reality, you continue to hold onto the non-factual unrealistic statement by deflection.
1) You stated that the GOP defeated the Public Option. There is ample evidence that the Democrats themselves defeated the Public Option...
With Democrats split, .....The most robust public plan, favored by liberals and included in two of the House bills, would tie reimbursement rates for health care providers to those paid by Medicare, reducing the nation’s overall health care bill by $110 billion over 10 years, according to estimates the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has provided to lawmakers. The third bill contains an idea being pushed by centrist Democrats to negotiate reimbursement rates with providers, saving roughly $25 billion over 10 years, the budget office estimates say.
As House Democratic leaders try to meld those approaches, liberals like Representative Jan Schakowsky, Democrat of Illinois, said they saw support building for the stronger public option because it saves more money. “It’s the best cost-containment measure we can get,” she said.
But centrists like Representative Jim Cooper, Democrat of Tennessee, who teaches health policy at Vanderbilt University, call the Medicare plan unworkable. Mr. Cooper said Medicare reimburses at such low rates that few doctors would sign on for such a plan.
And the idea of tying reimbursement to Medicare is unlikely to pass the Senate. There, the health committee has approved a negotiated-rates public option, while the Finance Committee voted to set aside money to encourage the creation of private insurance cooperatives. The bill bars existing insurance companies from forming co-ops.
The budget office’s analysis of the finance panel’s bill concluded that co-ops would have “very little effect” on the number of insured or on federal costs because “they seem unlikely to establish a significant market presence in many areas of the country.”
Now Mr. Reid must merge the two Senate bills. He has said he likes Ms. Snowe’s trigger proposal — “a pretty doggone good idea,” he called it in a recent conference call with Nevada voters.
But last week a new twist on the public option took hold in the Senate. Senator Thomas R. Carper, Democrat of Delaware, proposed leaving the decision on whether to establish a public plan up to the states. The plan is not fully fleshed out, Mr. Carper said in an interview, saying he simply wanted to “serve as a catalyst to others to think outside the box.”
Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, jumped on the idea; he and Mr. Carper are talking about how to create a national government insurance plan that would let states opt in or out. “All the naysayers weren’t looking at what is happening on the ground,” Mr. Schumer said, “which is that moderate members are open to a public option.”http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/15/health/policy/15public.html
Your attempt to deflect this into something other than a discussion regarding your claim that the GOP defeated the Public Option has failed.
So your point is that as many in the GOP voted for the public option as did Dems, that's just a lie from the get go and you know it.
not really a nice try sort of lame
Oh so we are in agreement that the finial bill would have been much better if there had been no Republicans in congress. I welcome you to the fight to defeat Republicans so that we can fix the HeathCare bill and get that public option we both want.
Yes there are 20 blue dog dems out of about 220 that didn’t want the public option and without them the Ds couldn’t beat the Rs which were all opposed at least we agree we do need to get rid of the Rs.
BTW in case anybody reading doesn't already know that you are just an agent of the 1%.
Obamacare was passed by a Congress who had the majority in BOTH HOUSES; the bill could and did pass without one Senate Republican voting for it.
The Republicans had nothing to do with the fact that the Public Option was not in the final bill - that bill was a Democrat sponsored bill.
Keep on trying to place the full responsibility for the lack of a public option on the GOP....reasonable people will understand that it didn't pass because even the President realized that the country was not ready for one. He discussed this fact on more than one of his speeches during his campaign for President.
You really need to learn to separate your "opinion" from facts.
Did anybody say they all wanted it, pay attention, there were 20 blue dogs out of what around 225 or so?
If the country didn't want it why are you so afraid of pepole remembering that it was the GOP that fought against it.
You are really trying to confuse folks aren't you? Or is it that you simply cannot read and comprehend anything that doesn't fit your predetermined way of thinking?
I have never said that any Republican voted FOR the public option. In fact, they all voted AGAINST the entire health care bill...but you know that don't you?
Here factsrfun, are the facts. Obamacare was passed by a Congress who had the majority in BOTH HOUSES; the bill could and did pass without one Senate Republican voting for it. Depending on which bill or amendment was being voted on, at the most one or two Republicans were bribed through promised pork to add a vote so that the politicians could claim "bi-partisanship" in the passage.
The Public Option was argued between liberal democrats and moderate (blue dog) democrats and was not included in the final bills for passage. This was NOT to get Republican votes - because they knew they 1) didn't need them to pass anything and 2) wouldn't get them anyway.
Oh so we are in agreement that the finial bill would have been much better if there had been no Republicans in congress. I welcome you to the fight to defeat Republicans so that we can fix the HeathCare bill and get that public option we both want.
Yes there are 20 blue dog dems out of about 220 that didn’t want the public option and without them the Ds couldn’t beat the Rs which were all opposed at least we agree we do need to get rid of the Rs.
BTW in case anybody reading doesn't already know that you are just an agent of the 1%.
What makes you think the government didn't get the exact bill they wanted? They will drive private insurers out of business giving them control of healthcare without the stupid expense of what you like to call single payer.
They will have complete control of the healthcare process and they will have millions upon millions of young people paying in who normally would have waited 20 years. Obamacare is a complete win win for government, more money and control of how and when you die.
You think of government as a good thing and they think of you as a profit center. Once you pass out of the earning class you are a liability and Obamacare is structured to help you to your final reward as quickly as is seemly. Heart/lung transplants will be a thing of the past (except for the elite), new medicines won't be developed because there is no incentive to develop them.
You really think the Democrats are really trying to get single payer for you? You're insane. Look at who has the golden medical care and big retirements and guaranteed job security, unions and government employees do. Maybe you are one of those two protected classes, maybe that's why you spend so much time trying to keep the wool over the eyes of your fellow lefties but if you aren't one of those two groups you are indeed a useful idiot for the political elite.
Government is a broad term, I know that some wanted a public opition but it was strongly opposed by the GOP.
Democrats Divided Over Reid Proposal for Public Option
"Senate Democrats voiced deep disagreements on Tuesday over the idea of a government-run health insurance plan, suggesting that the decision by the majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, to include a public plan in major health care legislation had failed, at least initially, to unite his caucus. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/health/policy/28health.html
A review here clearly shows the overwhelming support for the public option among democrats.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/going-it-alone-on-health-care-dems-face-tug-of-war-over-public-option.php
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/09/nation/la-na-health-senate9-2009dec09
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/24/public-option-headed-for_n_299232.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/24/blue-dog-opposition-to-pu_n_298637.html
Here you can find actual bills introduced, and if you have the time you can see how the GOP blocked it at every turn.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/thomas
No I never said they were united I said if it were up to them we would have it, in other words a majority og dems either did or stated they would have supported it. i never said they were united. In order to have any point at all you would have to show where as many GOP supported it as dems, if your point is that the public optition was good and we should have got it, but it didn't matter which party you suport because they were both against it, show where the GOP woul;d have given it to us. Without the GOP we would have gotten it because most dems wanted it.
You can't give up can you? IF the Dems all wanted it and could have agreed on the version of it they could put in the bill, they would have done so. AND, it would have passed both houses of congress and been signed by the President. They didn't need to have Republican support (except that they wanted at least one vote so they could present it as a "bi-partisan" bill).
Let's remember what you wrote and what I initially replied....you stated as a "fact" that the GOP defeated any public option. The "fact" is that the Dems didn't have it in the final bill - not because of the GOP but because they couldn't decide on how they wanted the public option to be written and executed.
It is your opinion that "without the GOP we would have gotten it because most dems wanted it", it is not fact.
Did anybody say they all wanted it, pay attention, there were 20 blue dogs out of what around 225 or so?
[-] 1 points by factsrfun (1662) 2 days ago
You continue to fail; to list all the material where members of the GOP were fighting for the public option.
I don't need to do that ....despite the fact that you are once again trying to confuse the issue...YOU wrote that the Democrats were united on the Public Option and that the GOP caused it to fail. I have posted numerous articles detailing the fight between the Democrats - liberal and moderate(Blue Dog).
The "fail" is on you.
No I never said they were united I said if it were up to them we would have it, in other words a majority og dems either did or stated they would have supported it. i never said they were united. In order to have any point at all you would have to show where as many GOP supported it as dems, if your point is that the public optition was good and we should have got it, but it didn't matter which party you suport because they were both against it, show where the GOP woul;d have given it to us. Without the GOP we would have gotten it because most dems wanted it.
With Democrats split, .....The most robust public plan, favored by liberals and included in two of the House bills, would tie reimbursement rates for health care providers to those paid by Medicare, reducing the nation’s overall health care bill by $110 billion over 10 years, according to estimates the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has provided to lawmakers. The third bill contains an idea being pushed by centrist Democrats to negotiate reimbursement rates with providers, saving roughly $25 billion over 10 years, the budget office estimates say.
As House Democratic leaders try to meld those approaches, liberals like Representative Jan Schakowsky, Democrat of Illinois, said they saw support building for the stronger public option because it saves more money. “It’s the best cost-containment measure we can get,” she said.
But centrists like Representative Jim Cooper, Democrat of Tennessee, who teaches health policy at Vanderbilt University, call the Medicare plan unworkable. Mr. Cooper said Medicare reimburses at such low rates that few doctors would sign on for such a plan.
And the idea of tying reimbursement to Medicare is unlikely to pass the Senate. There, the health committee has approved a negotiated-rates public option, while the Finance Committee voted to set aside money to encourage the creation of private insurance cooperatives. The bill bars existing insurance companies from forming co-ops.
The budget office’s analysis of the finance panel’s bill concluded that co-ops would have “very little effect” on the number of insured or on federal costs because “they seem unlikely to establish a significant market presence in many areas of the country.”
Now Mr. Reid must merge the two Senate bills. He has said he likes Ms. Snowe’s trigger proposal — “a pretty doggone good idea,” he called it in a recent conference call with Nevada voters.
But last week a new twist on the public option took hold in the Senate. Senator Thomas R. Carper, Democrat of Delaware, proposed leaving the decision on whether to establish a public plan up to the states. The plan is not fully fleshed out, Mr. Carper said in an interview, saying he simply wanted to “serve as a catalyst to others to think outside the box.”
Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, jumped on the idea; he and Mr. Carper are talking about how to create a national government insurance plan that would let states opt in or out. “All the naysayers weren’t looking at what is happening on the ground,” Mr. Schumer said, “which is that moderate members are open to a public option.
”http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/15/health/policy/15public.html
Liberal Democrats are not giving up. Senator Tom Harkin, Democrat of Iowa, said the president and Senate Democratic leaders had not made a serious effort to round up votes for a public option. If they did, he said, it could pass. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/health/policy/13plan.html
The Senate Finance Committee voted down Rockefeller’s public option amendment, 15 to 8. All Republicans, plus Democrats Kent Conrad, Blanche Lincoln, Bill Nelson and Chairman Max Baucus voted against it. UPDATE: Democrat Thomas Carper also voted against the amendment.
The committee also voted down Schumer’s public option amendment, 13 to 10. All Republicans, plus {Democrats} Conrad, Lincoln and Baucus voted against it.
Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2009/09/29/pubic-option-debate-in-the-senate-finance-committee/#ixzz1p0peN7gI
Yourt first sentencve is incompelete should be "with dems split and GOP firmly opposed to the public option" funny how leaving out important stuff changes everything.
You continue to fail; to list all the material where members of the GOP were fighting for the public option.
I checked yout your links...
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/going-it-alone-on-health-care-dems-face-tug-of-war-over-public-option.php - Discusses the Democrats needing to come up with cohesive plan amongst themselves regarding the Public Option - indicating the division among that party - who didn't need one GOP vote to pass health care reform....
http://swampland.time.com/2009/09/29/pubic-option-debate-in-the-senate-finance-committee/
Quote - Under the compromise developed by a group of conservative and liberal Democrats, the Senate legislation would no longer include a new government-run insurance program, or "public option," for Americans who do not get coverage through their employers. End Quote
Quote - The tentative deal faces an uncertain fate in the full 60-member Democratic caucus, which will have to remain largely united if Democrats are to overcome a GOP-led filibuster and pass a bill before Christmas. Democrats hold 58 seats, and the Senate's two independents caucus with them. End Quote
Quote: While several Senate Democrats have said they oppose it, no Senate Democrat has yet said publicly that he or she would oppose any bill that included a public option.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/24/blue-dog-opposition-to-pu_n_298637.html
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was the catalyst for the Blue Dog self-reflection when she floated the idea that roughly 20 Blue Dogs could support a public option.
"There was some suggestion that there were 20," Herseth Sandlin said. "There clearly are not. From the numbers that I have seen, although not everyone has submitted the surveys, even if they had and they all said yes it wouldn't be 20. Right now it's less than a dozen." Eng Quote
All confirming the point that the Democrats - who (I'll remind you again) had the majority in both houses of Congress - were divided on the public option. You stated that the GOP blocked the Public Option in the final health care bill - not factually true.
Why do you continue to lie? GOP opposition is immaterial, Obamacare was a Democrat construction from start to finish. It is your baby and it will be one of the many things that will help rid the country our radical community organizer.
If only the GOP had, no votes then we would have the Bill the D's wanted and we deserved.
Here's the details:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/thomas
So with control of the house, senate and presidency it's still the Republicans fault you couldn't give everybody Medicare? You got the exact bill the Democrats wanted, more money and power for government.
Did you ever think for a moment what cap and trade actually would have accomplished? Did it address c02 production? No, but it did give more money and power to government...see a pattern?
We've been hearing for a decade that global warming is the most serious issue ever faced by humanity and we have no time to waste in reversing the production of c02, if we don't the seas will rise and crops will fail.
Now that cap and trade has been shot down, what, exactly, is our government's plan to address this most devastating disaster in human history, that's right we have no plan. When it became evident they couldn't screw more money and power from this "disaster" they lost interest.
I have no idea why people like you have absolute faith in the general goodness of government when every solution they come up with devolves more money and power to government. It's what they do. Do you honestly think they plan to give it to you?
They've got you out here blaming business for a recession that was caused by government policy as formulated by the elite who laugh at you daily. Who are this mysterious elite? Look at government, media, education and their cash donkey, business. Every time you read of a politician going to work for a hedge fund or taking a job in the media or taking a chair at an ivy league university you are observing the elite in action.
Your problem isn't business, business is a whipping boy for the elite that's why they have you out here making a fool of yourself whining about the banks instead coming after them.
The run of the mill liberal these days is almost incredibly obtuse, no thought process at all. If you could only get clarity for a moment and see what fools your masters make of you.
Yes, unfortunately there were more than 40 GOP members of the Senate, we might be able to fix that with your help this November.
"Obamacare" was based entirely on the plan written by the Heritage Foundation. It is where Romney got his plan from, too.
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Does it make you feel better to lie to yourself? The obamination that was passed by the democrat house and senate had no relation to any known health care proposal other than using the same name.
You have a tendency to declare shit absolutely fact free. The template for the health care bill was written years ago by the Heritage Foundation. It is well documented. It is almost identical to the law passed in Massachusetts by then governor Mitt Romney. Your ignorance of it does not make it less true, but making declarations based on your ignorance alone makes you look exactly as stupid as you are.
Do you really think those corporations are so stupid, they didn't see this coming?
They knew the public teet was running dry all the while they were increasing co-pays, and limiting coverage.
They've just kept it up as long as they can.
It's no longer a viable business model, and they know it.
http://wendellpotter.com/2012/03/the-end-of-health-insurance-as-we-know-it/
Wow, that's amazing. An entire four paragraph post completely devoid of any truth or sense.
Wow, an example free post by a lefty!
Example? Every sentence of yours is an example. Not one of them was without distortions and outright falsehood. Every single sentence was an assertion without evidence, opinion substituting for fact.
So, you still can't refute it.
Refute what? Your raw opinions? Your unsubstantiated rants?
No it doesn't bother them to mislead with what they write. ...note the claim that the GOP is trying to kill it - yet...the prefunding of retirement and pension accounts (which is a large part of the problems) made law in 2006 was sponsored by:
Rep Davis, Tom [VA-11] Danny Davis [D-IL7] John McHugh [R-NY23] Henry Waxman [D-CA30]
That's a pretty darn bipartisan sponsorship now isn't it? Unfortunately, it was passed by a voice vote and so there is no record of how the parties actually voted for it. Yet, you can find blog after blog stating that the GOP pushed through that law during a "lame duck session" of Congress....
If anyone is actually interested in doing a bit of reading on all of the reasons that the post office is in financial trouble, here's good place to start...
http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/usps
Its doubtful though that anyone here will take the time to read up on the entire issue - it is so much easier to read the blogs and so on that point the finger of blame to the GOP.......
Still no excuse for them to pass the costs onto the employees. The management made a decision and it cost them money.
Now if this merger had gone through and AT and T had made money... would they be passing those benefits onto their employees? I dont think so.
They should not be reaching into employee benefits. They should be cutting their own salaries and their bonuses.
I know they like to chant "Oh... we make the big decisions and do hard work and create profits... and therefore deserve everything we get..." but what about when they screw up? Even if they had the expectation of success, it does not mean they can pass the cost of failure onto anyone else.
Well of course they want workers to pay. The management are rife with blithering idiots and pushing off mistakes is the nature of this capitalist society. This is a form of exploitation inherent to society.
You certainly can't expect CEO's to accept responsibility for their mistakes; the U.S. government hasn't demanded any such thing of them. Look at all the banking executives who walked and have made even bigger bonuses at the expense of the ninety-nine percent.
As far as the spurious argument that the government stopped the merger with hints of non-approval; a prudent CEO would have expected difficulty on that front. To not expect some government resistance to such a merger would indicate the CEO and board were not really fit to hold their positions. ATT is expecting the rank-and-file to pay for executive blunders.
That's typical of corporate mentality and the general unterintelligence displayed by right-wing hacks.
Don't you love the responsibility meme?
The new American culture: get away with it if you can.
I will shun them if they do not go on strike.
Amen
are they union? if not.. too freaking bad for them.. better to take teh workers money than file bankruptcy and take it from taxpayers
I finally got out of these profit driven now companies - the owner of my company has a different mind-set willing to work hard, treat workers right, press on until the hard work and efforts pay off by laying the seeds and not over-fertilizing and killing them. Corporations are shooting themselves in the foot every day - and eventually the entire country even the wealthy will be suffering for it. Employees are consumers - they buy your products. Someone has to employ them so they can then buy - the economy is a circle it is pay it forward. Pay them you pay yourselves. I don't get it; Billions of advertising dollars spent to advertise to people who's pay has not risen in 10 years plus, who have lost their jobs and can't afford things, and who have no way to buy the things advertised. Here is a thought - try collectively putting the ad money into the employees instead. I can't tell you how many companies I've worked for that treated me badly - I told as many people as I could about their crappy attitudes to their customers. Good employers make me want to work harder - make me feel grateful - I give them free advertising - tell as many people as I can to buy from them. How many employees do you have left AT&T ? Are they very fond of your company - or are they telling everyone and their brother to avoid you? What about your business practices are they ethical - 'cause word gets around. Try investing in your employees instead of advertising - they are your future profit margins especially if other companies follow the lead. PS other workers empathize with mis-treated workers - they hate you for it. Next time I buy from AT&T - how about never! Also, I wrote to my government to nix the merger because I hate your business ethics and because I so did not want to do business with your like. Wow your policies have really helped you out. People see beyond advertising - they are not as dumb as you give them credit for.
You are absolutely right. I agree. I think they need to get this: Billions of advertising dollars spent to advertise to people who's pay has not risen in 10 years plus, who have lost their jobs and can't afford things, and who have no way to buy the things advertised.
They are running out of people to screw.
This kind of greed will backfire.
They shouldn't strike, they should leave.
meow meow meow meow.
Good link!!!! http://www.dontvoteobama.net/
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It will just be pushed to the consumer like all taxes and other expenses
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At least ATT still offers medical. Thousands of companies are stopping medical and forcing employees into the Obamacare insurance exchanges starting in 2014. Obamacare was a huge gift to companies, by 2015 there won't be company offered medical, you'll all be in Obamacare and paying that 400 per month for one size fits all.
That sounds like good news. Those fired workers wont be working for a corporation any more. Good news for them. Cant hate and love corporations at the same time. I would assume.
So, when the corporation makes a mistake, it is A-OK to make the employees pay the price. Got it! Good job, you!
No,,, I'm just going along with OWS. HATE corporations. These people are LUCKY they got fired. They wont have to work for a corporation. I assumed this was very good news. Right????
And what do you think of the notion of forcing costs on employees for the mistakes of management?
I dont like it at all. Just another reason to be happy that they were fired. The corporation wont be able to push them around anymore. OWS should be happy that people arent under the thumb of a mean ole corporation. They are much better off. Correct? We do hate corporations,,, right?
Hm... you're right. This corporation doesn't deserve their talents and it does free them from being pushed around by such incompetent management. Yes, they are better off working elsewhere. I only hate certain corporations (such as bailout whores), not all.
OWS does not hate corporations. They hate corporatists. They also are not fond of monopolies.
I like Monoploies. I owned Park Place and never landed on Go To Jail. I became a millionaire. I was very happy to be rich. I looked down at the little people around me.
So, tell me Free, how do you rectify within your self, what you do? I mean, you know that you use underhanded dirty tactics. How do you live with yourself?
As you notice, Friday, I'm actually a pretty fun loving person. I like a good joke. Most of all,,, I like my way of life. I dont like to force people to do things my way. The only time I get involved is when people want to TAKE something from me that I have worked for. I dont mind giving what I think is the responsible thing or amount. But once you give a dog a treat,,, the dog,,, every time,,,, will come back for more,, again and again and again. The dog never stops until you pull a Dog Whisper thing and tell it to SNAP OUT OF IT. That is what I do. Back home they call me the "OWS Whispererererer" Train the OWS dogs to step back and get what it works for. I love perspective.
So, when you and the rest of your pack laid that little line of me sitting in the dark typing, how long did it take you to realize that I wasn't at home?
Well, you cant be home all the time. As a Dog Whisperer, I do know that the pack runs around behind the bitch dog in heat. Welcome home Friday.
I believe that I deserve an answer.
Goodness Gracious!
Ya don't, bitchdawg
blue moon- sha na na- flip wilson
Goodness gracious!
Oh, but I do, little Koch whore.
Goodness gracious!
You find it ethical to go to my house?
This is how you ran off the others, isn't it?
Goodness gracious!
Hey shit for brains if they find you. They have all the evidence they need. Don't bother trying to clean up your mess. It aint gonna happen unless you can rape the server.
BTW - with all of this on record?
You had better pray to God that nothing bad EVER happens to her.
Do you understand - what just happened here?
What are you talking about idiot?
"They" (DKA, GK, and GirlFriday) have all decided you are a public enemy to.
LOL. I noticed the trick they pulled ealier. We were discussing ATT firing people and suddenly,,,,, she starts making statements about not being home. Just out of the blue she make up a story,,, then DKA comes to the rescue. It is a game they play to try to get people to leave this site. Wont work. I would bet I'm 500, 1,000 1,500 miles away from any of them and they got this fake story going. I know their game,,,,,, Wont work. As long as OWS wants to steal my money out of my pocket I will be on here keeping them away from it.
Eh, everybody's going nuts tonight. There's a whole army of angry flamers, and that Holy Trilogy is the worst offender.
Free discussion indeed.
Dream on. Because right now? You are not having a nightmare. This is reality smackin you upside the head. You can delete and edit your Comments BUT you can not edit the server log. So go ahead and play dumb. But it is all over except for your crying.
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Not to worry Dick Head the whole thing is in the server log.
[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (3512) 4 hours ago
So, when you and the rest of your pack laid that little line of me sitting in the dark typing, how long did it take you to realize that I wasn't at home? ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink [-] 0 points by FreeDiscussion5 (21) 4 hours ago
Well, you cant be home all the time. As a Dog Whisperer, I do know that the pack runs around behind the bitch dog in heat. Welcome home Friday. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
21 Comments [-] 1 points by DKAtoday (4236) from Coon Rapids, MN 44 minutes ago Yep. Management makes the error. The employee pays for it. Has a familiar ring to it. Don't you think? Folks? Corporate tactics on the micro scale as compared to Corporate tactics on the macro scale = The economic meltdown. Same playbook - Different Scale - That's All. No responsibility. No Accountability. Someone else can pay for the error. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 1 points by JesusDemocrat (0) 1 hour ago I will shun them if they do not go on strike. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 0 points by FreeDiscussion5 (21) 1 hour ago That sounds like good news. Those fired workers wont be working for a corporation any more. Good news for them. Cant hate and love corporations at the same time. I would assume. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (3512) 1 hour ago So, when the corporation makes a mistake, it is A-OK to make the employees pay the price. Got it! Good job, you! ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink
[-] 0 points by FreeDiscussion5 (21) 57 minutes ago No,,, I'm just going along with OWS. HATE corporations. These people are LUCKY they got fired. They wont have to work for a corporation. I assumed this was very good news. Right???? ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (3512) 56 minutes ago OWS does not hate corporations. They hate corporatists. They also are not fond of monopolies. ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink
[-] 2 points by FreeDiscussion5 (21) 53 minutes ago I like Monoploies. I owned Park Place and never landed on Go To Jail. I became a millionaire. I was very happy to be rich. I looked down at the little people around me. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (3512) 51 minutes ago So, tell me Free, how do you rectify within your self, what you do? I mean, you know that you use underhanded dirty tactics. How do you live with yourself? ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink
[-] 2 points by FreeDiscussion5 (21) 45 minutes ago As you notice, Friday, I'm actually a pretty fun loving person. I like a good joke. Most of all,,, I like my way of life. I dont like to force people to do things my way. The only time I get involved is when people want to TAKE something from me that I have worked for. I dont mind giving what I think is the responsible thing or amount. But once you give a dog a treat,,, the dog,,, every time,,,, will come back for more,, again and again and again. The dog never stops until you pull a Dog Whisper thing and tell it to SNAP OUT OF IT. That is what I do. Back home they call me the "OWS Whispererererer" Train the OWS dogs to step back and get what it works for. I love perspective. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (3512) 40 minutes ago So, when you and the rest of your pack laid that little line of me sitting in the dark typing, how long did it take you to realize that I wasn't at home? ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink
[-] 1 points by FreeDiscussion5 (21) 37 minutes ago Well, you cant be home all the time. As a Dog Whisperer, I do know that the pack runs around behind the bitch dog in heat. Welcome home Friday. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (3512) 26 minutes ago I believe that I deserve an answer. ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink
[-] 0 points by GreatBallsOfFire (9) 25 minutes ago Goodness Gracious! Ya don't, bitchdawg ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (3512) 21 minutes ago Oh, but I do, little Koch whore. ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink
[-] 0 points by GreatBallsOfFire (9) 20 minutes ago Goodness gracious! ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (3512) 35 minutes ago You find it ethical to go to my house? This is how you ran off the others, isn't it? ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink
[-] 0 points by GreatBallsOfFire (9) 28 minutes ago Goodness gracious! ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (4236) from Coon Rapids, MN 24 minutes ago Fucking AssHole. You should have a Karmic experience. You should experience 1st hand the shit you spew. That could be towards your own personal Awakening. SFB. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 1 points by GreatBallsOfFire (9) 23 minutes ago Goodness Gracious, that's like a death threat! ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (4236) from Coon Rapids, MN 17 minutes ago Is it? Is saying someone should experience the shit they spew at someone else WRONG? Are you stating that you believe that asshole is threatening her life? But that is OK with you? Maybe you and your butt buddy should get together and protect each other from any bad karma back splash. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 0 points by GreatBallsOfFire (9) 17 minutes ago Goodness gracious! ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (3512) 1 minute ago I'm not at home currently. I haven't been there in several weeks. Just thought you should know that.
↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink [-] 0 points by GreatBallsOfFire (9) 1 minute ago Goodness Gracious! You must really want the penis! ↥like ↧dislike permalink
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-iceman-cometh/#comment-668628 [-] 1 points by ThaRapist (17) 21 minutes ago Read up on my sexy talk with GirlFriday. She's hot when she's whining like a little bitch. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (3512) 4 minutes ago I'm right here, sugar. You can talk to me directly. ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink
[-] 1 points by ThaRapist (17) 2 minutes ago There's my favorite piece of meat! Which hole do you want it in this time? All of them? Should I poke a few more?
that's not very nice.
Nice try. Wont work. She changed the subject from the ATT issue to not being home as a tactic. Your tactics wont work. Those of us that are trolls to defeat the OWS from taking our money wont work. We want to keep our money worse that you want to steal it from us. I have just as much right to protest against you as you do to protest in the streets or on a website. ((( While your at it,,, and you have the server log,,,, post where I said anything about sitting in the dark typing and not being home?????? I would really like to see that post)))) You DOOOOO have that post,,,,,, I would assume,,, cause I never said that.... Post it if you have it. WAITING!!!!
Pay attention. I know you must be stressing right now but come-on man-up.
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (4236) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 hour ago
Sorry butt muncher. No can do. It is not my forum. It is not my server. So play your deniability games. But remember this if they come after you and I hope they do. They will have the record.
So shrug it off and play it cool for the audience, if it makes you feel better. It shouldn't but go ahead. Terroristic threaten-er of women. Go ahead and laugh.
Sweat PIG-BOY. ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink [-] 0 points by FreeDiscussion5 (21) 10 minutes ago
Still waiting for YOU to post what YOU said YOU had. Just post if you got it. Since I never said it,,,, you cant post it. What you did do was create another member and YOU posted some nasty comments and juxtaposed it with some of MY comments. Nice tactic,, but it didnt work. You failed to post that. Come on,,, post those comments. "It's IN THE SERVER LOG" . Go back and find them and then post it. YOU,,, calling ME the pig????? Interesting. ↥like ↧dislike permalink
Sorry butt muncher. No can do. It is not my forum. It is not my server. So play your deniability games. But remember this if they come after you and I hope they do. They will have the record.
So shrug it off and play it cool for the audience, if it makes you feel better. It shouldn't but go ahead. Terroristic threaten-er of women. Go ahead and laugh.
Sweat PIG-BOY.
Still waiting for YOU to post what YOU said YOU had. Just post if you got it. Since I never said it,,,, you cant post it. What you did do was create another member and YOU posted some nasty comments and juxtaposed it with some of MY comments. Nice tactic,, but it didnt work. You failed to post that. Come on,,, post those comments. "It's IN THE SERVER LOG" . Go back and find them and then post it. YOU,,, calling ME the pig????? Interesting.
Fucking AssHole. You should have a Karmic experience. You should experience 1st hand the shit you spew.
That could be towards your own personal Awakening.
SFB.
Man,,, cool off. I dont want her,, you can have the dog bitch.
Not to worry. You being a domestic terrorist committing hate crimes, you won't be bothering anyone let alone any women.
If you are talking about GirlFriday,, you said domestic terrorist and I think you meant to say,,, domesticated, terrorist. Like,,, domesticated dog. But you can have her.
How many people have you used intimidation tactics on?
I dont work for AT&T. I didnt fire them. I would think you would be happy ATT fired them. You hate corporations. They got fired, you should be happy they dont work for them anymore. You OWS people need to make up your mind. Either you hate corporations or you love them. Make up your mind.
Laugh it up funny boy. You will need to store up some good memories for those long dark days in lock-up.
Goodness Gracious, that's like a death threat!
Then just as a heads up, I won't be home until next week.
Goodness Gracious!
I'm not at home currently. I haven't been there in several weeks. Just thought you should know that.
Goodness Gracious! You must really want the penis!
Is it?
Is saying someone should experience the shit they spew at someone else WRONG?
Are you stating that you believe that asshole is threatening her life?
But that is OK with you?
Maybe you and your butt buddy should get together and protect each other from any bad karma back splash.
Goodness gracious!
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Yep. Management makes the error.
The employee pays for it.
Has a familiar ring to it.
Don't you think?
Folks?
Corporate tactics on the micro scale as compared to Corporate tactics on the macro scale = The economic meltdown.
Same playbook - Different Scale - That's All.
No responsibility.
No Accountability.
Someone else can pay for the error.
THEN WHY DON'T THEY do something about it?
Why don't you?
Oh? They aren't doing something about it? He isn't doing something about it? It sure looks like he is trying to raise awareness about this abuse on employees. Why don't you be something other than a waste of breath?
Well now that you are aware, go hold their hands and beat up the upper management.
Will do!
You act as if he is not going to do something about it too. Look at yourself, desperately grasping for straws in order to protect the scumbag upper management.
No, I hate all and everyone equally!
The workers will never amount to anything other than whining peons if they don't shut the company down and take control over the situation.
How'd you like a swift kick in the ass?
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Who's they? We, Occupy members, are doing something about it. We call it the Occupy revolution.
exactly lazy managers want another hand out
What? Are you sleeping? You should pay better attention in class. That is how you earn an education. Not by asking dumb questions for someone else to try to educate you.
Thank you for playing.
Please come again.
SatanRepublican
hissssssssssssssssssssssssss......
Do not be dragged down by the democrats. All is well with the bi-party governance of America Inc.
Find democrats and beguile them with truth as they will convince themselves that truths are only lies. If you cannot convert them, and don't bother as they automatically fall right into place and do our bidding for us. Private Messages
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Joined March 7, 2012
Goodness Gracious!