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Forum Post: ANOTHER WAR - a view from people not funded by corporations and banks

Posted 5 years ago on Jan. 31, 2013, 1:31 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic (5827)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement


The Mali rebellion is blowback from the U.S./NATO ouster of Gaddafi from Libya; efforts to gain control of African resources (oil, uranium, etc.) and competition with China are driving miltiary policies disguised as 'War on Terrorism', say Greens

WASHINGTON, DC -- The Obama Administration is pursuing policies in Africa that threaten regional stability and innocent populations, including military intervention in Mali and establishment of the United States Africa Command (AFRICOM), said Green Party leaders.

"AFRICOM represents a continuing escalation of U.S. military presence in Africa, imposing economic dependence, political domination, and control over the continent's mineral and other resources. The U.S./NATO attack on Libya opened the door to further U.S. military actions in Africa. The African Union, which has 17,000 African troops in Somalia, is working for the U.S., under CIA direction. Meanwhile, the war in Congo continues, in which military forces on the Pentagon payroll have perpetrated the worst slaughter since World War II, while the U.S. has blocked efforts to hold the Rwandan government accountable for war crimes in the conflict," said Thomas Muhammad, co-chair of the Green Party Black Caucus (http://www.gp.org/caucuses/black/index.php) and chair of National United Black Front (http://www.nbufdallas.net) Dallas Chapter. (See "US Drones over the D.R.C.?" Ann Garrison interviews Maurice Carney, Executive Director of Friends of the Congo, KPFA, January 13, 2013, http://www.anngarrison.com/audio/us-drones-over-the-drc)

Under current plans, troops from the 1st Infantry Division will be sent to Africa to contain al-Qaeda in Mali, but also to conduct training programs, exercises, and operations in 35 countries and set the stage for future military intervention. The troops will have the capability to deploy drones in Africa, if given permission.

"The Obama Administration is using the situation in Mali as an opportunity to bring Africa under the U.S. sphere of influence -- to block Chinese influence and win control over precious resources, which include oil, petroleum, diamonds, copper, gold, iron, cobalt, uranium, bauxite, silver, certain kinds of wood, and fruit. U.S. operations are justified by the White House as an extension of the War on Terror and fight against al-Qaeda. Unfortunately, the terror is suffered by Africans who face internal conflicts that are aggravated by U.S. meddling, funding for extremists and oppressive and corrupt regimes, and in some cases air assaults on their homes," said Romi Elnagar, a member of the Green Party's International Committee (http://www.gp.org/committees/intl).

Greens noted that the U.S./NATO assault on Libya and aid for Libyan rebels empowered radical Islamic movements to threaten neighboring countries. These include the Wahabi rebels in Mali, which are supported by the corrupt Wahabist royal family of Saudi Arabia, which is allied with the U.S. Some of the north African rebel movements have thus received aid that can be traced to countries outside Africa, including the U.S.

Moderate Islamist Tuaregs, many of whom suffered reprisals because of the Libyan war and have legitimate demands for human rights and self-determination, have been caught in the middle in Mali, between extremists who have joined the rebellion and the Malian government aided by Western powers trying to quash their bid for independence. France has its own neo-colonial interests in the region, especially access to uranium in Tuareg areas for French nuclear reactors.

The Obama Administration is thus playing a dangerous and reckless game with the lives of innocent Africans, with blowback that may threaten U.S. security. (See "Mali, Wahabis and Saudis; Following the Money Trail" by Thomas C. Mountain, Black Agenda Report, January 8, 2013, http://blackagendareport.com/content/mali-wahabis-and-saudis-following-money-trail).

The Green Party of the United States opposed President Obama's military campaign in Libya, opposes intervention in Mali, and continues to promote constructive and humane engagement with African nations instead of imperial policies like AFRICOM, which was authorized by President Bush in 2007.

"The resistance to al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb -- which gained more beachheads in Africa as a result of the U.S.-led ouster of Gaddafi -- must take place in Africa, led by Africans, without U.S. interference, which will only cause greater damage," said Greg Gerritt, International Committee member and liaison to the African Greens Forum (http://www.africangreens.org).

"Instead of exercising military might, the U.S. should work with African leaders to promote self-determination and independence and reverse the devastating effects of the West's racist colonial legacy in Africa. A Green foreign policy regarding Africa would include closing of military bases, increased humanitarian assistance for developing countries, especially aid for the fights against AIDS and other diseases, trade pacts that encourage workers rights, food and agricultural security, a clean environment, and greenhouse gas emissions reductions that are parallel with reductions in the U.S., since many of the worst effects of climate changes will be felt in Africa," added Mr. Gerritt.



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[-] 2 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 5 years ago

When will politicians understand the definition of "blowback"....it's like a foreign language to them.

[-] 8 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago

There was a book with that title, Blowback, but i never read it. I know very well what it is though.

Bombing the crap out of everyone, and creating more and more enemies in the process is the justification used for our security surveillance state.

And the legitimate threat of a terrorist attack is what makes it difficult for politicians to vote against nefarious laws like the Patriot Act, and the NDAA

What would you do if a loved one was a victim of a drone, or cluster bomb attack, and that explosive was Made in The USA?

It's all really screwed up. I wish I weren't, but I am ashamed of what my country does around the world


[-] 3 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 5 years ago

It is really screwed up. I don't think most americans pay attention enough to know about any of it. Most people can't even point out on a map where Mali, Libya, Iraq or Afghanistan are in the world.

I read Blowback....really good book. There was another one written by Robert Pape called "Dying to Win"....It goes through the stats on suicide terrorism...how old they were, education, religious beliefs, motivating factors and on and on. It's crazy to look at the stats though...because in every instance around the globe where suicide terrorism exists....it exists because of foreign occupation of their lands. He shows you numbers for suicide attacks against specific countries before and after troops are deployed to different regions. Def an eye opener.

The claim that we're attacked because we're free doesn't hold up at all if you look at the stats as well. The suicide campaigns are always carried out against the specific countries that are occupying the lands...when other and arguably freer countries exist closer than the occupying country and which would be easier targets.

I will never agree with attacks against innocent people (911)...but Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-qaeda and on and on-all came into existence because of an occupying force in their country...and for some reason when you say this and tell the truth people go nuts and call you an american or Israel hater....or unpatriotic.

[-] 5 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago

I was working in NYC (on the East River) on 9/11 on what was a beautiful late summer day, and saw both buildings fall. I understood that the world that I knew had changed forever, as I suspected almost right away that it was a terrorist attack.

I waited and waited for someone in the MSM to ask; Why do these people hate us so much? I didn't hear that question asked until The David Letterman Show came back on the air (I believe about 2 weeks later), and he asked that question to an incoherent, babbling Dan Rather who was unable to answer that simple question.

When President Bush came out and said in a speech that THEY were "jealous of our freedoms," and that went totally unchallenged to my knowledge, I knew then how stupid most Americans were. And I also suspected then that, that tragedy would be used as a spring-board to carry out our quest for our Empirical goals.

It galls the hell out of me that those words in Bush's speech are echoed on a 9/11 monument in the county I live in.

As with any suppressed people, a strong brotherhood develops, (ie. Occupy Wall Street,) and the bonds of religion tighten them together. Whatever injustices that their brothers are forced to endure, it is also their pain. The injustices, and yes even the atrocities that we purvey on other people in our quest for hegemony reverberates throughout their world, in this case the Muslim/Arab world.

So for people to view this as, we are just "fighting terrorism"... without trying to understand why these people are so fucking angry at us is totally beyond me. The reasons that I see are clear 1. our carte blanche support of Israel, 2. having air-fields near their most holiest of places, Mecca and Medina, 3. Our support of very despotic leaders throughout the Middle East and North Africa who suppress their people and cause untold human misery, 4. our physical occupation of their countries, and now 5. The wars, and drone attacks which have killed countless innocent people.

The question needs to be asked again; What would you do if one of your loved ones was the victim...as in killed... by one of our Made in The USA bombs?

Unless we can quell our appetite for hegemony, we may well find ourselves going the way of the Roman Empire when it fell, as we are well on our way to going BANKRUPT both financially, but probably even more importantly morally. Many of these points are made in Chomsky's, Hegemony Or Survival.

True....Another World Is Possible, but if we do not work hard for it, it may well not be a good one.


[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 5 years ago

Well said. Occupy is working for the right new world. We are growing and have encouraged many other groups and people. Our momentum is growing, we counter the evil, stupidity in our country. We challenge all the crimes our govt perpetrates. Stay strong. You are one of our best messengers.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago

Thanks. You are a kindred spirit to the people that I know who sacrifice so much for the success of this movement, and a great addition to the forum.



[-] 1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 5 years ago

Good comment...definitely agree with you.

Michael Scheuer was head of the Bin Laden unit for the CIA for a number of years...he's got a bunch of books out....but a lot of what you just said are exact statements given to the US by Bin Laden and other terrorist organizations detailing why they continue to attack us.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago

Thanks. Up until about 30 years ago, i was so involved with family that I did not take the time to truly figure out what was Truly going on in the world. That started to change when one of my daughters had a friend in pre-school whose parents were very empathetic to the plight of the Palestinians.

You would never have guessed it with his easy-going demeanor, but he was a professor, at the university in Ramallah on the West Bank, and she was a mid-wife there. They both came from upper middle-class families (at least), one (maybe both) of their familys were diplomats and they both were raised in several countries in Europe, and here. They gave up what could have been a cushy life to follow their principles. While in VT, visiting her family, they often would go shopping at the thrift store.

Unfortunately, after seeing them in Paris a couple of years later, just before they left for Ramallah again, I have lost contact with these courageous people. I will always have profound respect for them, and be in gratitude to them for having awakened me.


[-] 0 points by DSamms (-294) 5 years ago

In this country, the violence we visit on others around the world is not visible and therefore does not exist... Many years ago, I found this out upon returning from my first overseas tour.

If it's not on TV, it must not be important enough to consider, much less worry about... Our very own One-Eyed-God.

Terrorism, in its present incarnation, and our conflict in middle Asia were "predicted" some while back (early and mid 1990s), by sages like Walter Russell Meade (a pliant academian who plagiarized broadly but was usefully resurrected) who wrote "The Clash of Civilizations", in the pages of such august journals as Foreign Affairs and Foreign Policy. If you do not think there is an organized and functional elite behind the Presidential and Congressional thrones, whose advisors sit on the Court, read Foreign Affairs for ten or twenty years...

Question is: When will the rest of the world reject American depredations?

And its corollary: Does our jack-booted American elite believe it can successfully fight the world?

And the corollary's logical conclusion: What will the American public do (follow the elite and their politicians down the rabbit hole or something else) when they finally wake up?

Working hard is all well and good, but we must work smarter... And smarter means realizing that while we must work within the Constitution and its norms, we cannot accomplish what must be done within the twin-party paradigm. It means realizing that we will have to compromise with people whose political ideas and leanings do not mirror our own. It means realizing that whatever progress we make will not come without risk. It means making it as easy as possible for anyone and everyone to protest effectively by invoking Constitutional process for their own reasons.

Another world is possible, but we must first provide a practical and effective political strategy...

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago

"....the violence that we visit on others around the world is not visible and therefore does not exist...." How true that is. Very unlike the Vietnam War which was brought into your living rooms every night, people today rarely get a glimpse of war's horrors. There are few to none boyish-like foreign correspondents like Dan Rather, or distinguished young foreign anchors like Walter Cronkite in the middle of all the devastation. Few of us see the after-effects of drone attacks that mistakenly hit wedding ceromonies, or funeral processions. Fewer yet see, or know of the effects on victims of cluster bombs and bombs laced with uranium. You have to search the web today to get a clearer picture of that. And when you do see the images which are too horrible to imagine, you just want to forget.... and check out who's on Dances With The Stars. And you don't want to think that the country that you love is responsible for this.

Your question: "When will the rest of the world reject American depradations?" - That's a good question that unless you have traveled to other countries recently, or have read a lot on the subject, it is difficult to answer accurately. I'll give it a shot based on my suspicions. First though: We are not alone in our quest for world dominance. We have allies, and it is truly a pursuit by the Western countries who will share in their hopeful hegemony, with the US being the top dog, of course. Whether these countries chose out of their own free will to join us or were coerced into it, is debatable..... maybe.

What seems evident to me is that many good people throughout the world have rejected our "depredations" a long time ago. However these people too have become victims of neoliberal policies which renders the people's will unheard.

Next question: "Does our jackbooted American elite believe it can successfully fight the world." Yes, I do believe they think that they can fight the world. With a more docile-like public that seems to have taken a thirty year plus sleeping pill handed out with the help of the MSM.....pernicious laws passed in the name of fighting terrorism.....GPS sytems that do far more than help you find your way home..... and a security-surveilance state that would have been envied by the SS....yes I believe the corrupt elite definitely now think they have carte blanche to ensure their own well-being at the expense of the rest of us.

Needless to say that I agree entirely with your view. That, "...we cannot accomplish what must be done within the twin-party paradigm,".... and..... "whatever progress we make will not come without risk.".... And that, "... we will have to compromise...."

Yes "compromise" with the kindred, courageous people who share in the belief that: Another [Better] World is Possible, but not with those who have caused all the human misery throughout the world.


[-] 2 points by east (110) 5 years ago

Good Post

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago



[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago

Thanks, sometimes the fewer the words, from the heart gets your feelings across best. Lincoln's heart-felt Gettysburg Address is the prime example of that, as photographers were not even set up before he was finished.



[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

Along with funding and arming extremist groups, they still do that. Where is the push for background checks on extremists the US government gives weapons and money to? Didn't Saddam get a lot of his weapons from the USA when they funded the Iraq-Iran War?

Still in Afghanistan fighting blowback from the 1980's, aka imperialism to extract trillions in resources.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago

"Extremist" are only labeled "extremist," when they become a hinderance for YOUR goal Imperialism, and the people who resist you are villified as being sub-human, and perfidious.

Afterall, how could we invade a country and cause untold human misery if we thought those inhabitants just wanted to have control over their own destiny. Whether they are or not, we need to make them the bogeyman so the folks back home support the efforts of the military. Today, unlike Vietnam when there was a more independent MSNM, together with a dumbing down of Americans by the corrupt corporate-owned MSM, sophisticated killing machines that kill from afar, and no draft, we are kept in the dark mostly.

However if like in Afghahistan in the '80s, the people who resist are in the way of your adversary's (the Soviets) goal of hegemony, they are then labeled noble Freedom Fighters by us, or the Mujahideen and they are romanticized.


[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

I was referring to the government funding and arming extremist regimes like the Saudi's, the Mujahideen in the 80's, the rebels in Libya, or even Saddam in the Iran-Iraq war, etc etc.

I wasn't talking about the millions of dead civilians throughout the history of these wars.

We're on the same page here.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago

Yeah, sorry I just got off on a tangent. I guess very little of my spiel was applicable to your comment, but like you said, we are on the same page.

It just bothers the shit out of me that so many people in this country are so unaware, and so easily manipulated. Truly we have lost our moral compass.


[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

Explained in an excellent chapter called Becoming What We Were Seeking to Destroy by Chris Hedges.


[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago

I was just thinking of heading to bed and reading some of Hedges' stuff. I'll watch this first though. Thanks.


[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

I'm on my 5th Hedges' book. Empire of Illusion. So far so great. He has quickly become my favorite writer.

Which book do you have?

[-] 3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago

You're a prolific reader. Right now, I'm reading Hedges' Death of The Liberal Class at your recommendation. Although I do read a lot, now it's more from web sites on different subjects mostly pertaining to our struggle. shadz always loads me up with a lot of reading too. I have seen a lot of Hedges' interviews including his 3 hour Cspan one, (which I think i rec. to you) and have read his column in Truthdig every week (or near) for well over a year now. I also watcha quite a few docs which i like because I can do other stuff. Robert Scheer has had some good columns in Truthdig too, sometimes. It's funny, but I have never been as interested in learning as I am now.

I read the links, and your post in its entirity early this morning. It's mind boggling all the crap that we are getting into in Africa. The most direct route for us to alleviate the pain we cause in so many places in the world is to regain conrol of our governement, and hence our financial system. That should include defanging the President's ability to send troops, weapons, and operatives throughout the world. Considering all the dark forces in play that benefit from all this shit, it won't be easy.


[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

That is a great book. I decided to move into the book world too. Before I was always reading online articles, news, etc... But after running into a bunch of great articles and interviews with Hedges I decided to jump into the book world. I also made it a news years resolution to read more books than the internet. Outside of Hedges' this month I've read Cornel West's and Tavis Smiley's Rich and the Rest of Us, and MLK's Where Do We Go From Here. I was inspired to read into MLK after Chris Hedges awesome chapter on how the corporate government skewed MLK's true message. And after reading Where Do We Go From Here, Hedges was 100% accurate. Cornel talks about it a little bit as well in interviews. MLK was just as much about economic equality and standing up for the poor as part of his message of equal rights. THEY usually leave that out and just talk about desegregation.

As for the president having that much power... yah it's fucked up. Where's congress's approval for the operations with Mali? They probably would have approved it anyway, since the Congress is pro-war... but... I don't even know anymore.

War is the enemy of the poor. - MLK

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 5 years ago

Good resolution. It is my goal to read more books too. MLK' official break from the Johnson administration in his famous Beyond Vietnam speech was devastating to that President. It was on MLK day 2012 at Riverside church where he gave that speech that I realized more than ever how close and inseparable that civil rights and econmic justice are.

Thanks for bogging me down with more reading. ;-)


[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

The puppets can only do what the puppet masters do. They only understand what the puppet masters make them understand.

[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

Obama is bombing Africa....unreal.

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 5 years ago

Wha . . .? Wait, but I thought Libya was all about "getting rid of that evil Gaddafi?"

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

you hear Hagel flop on Iran? He's currently pushing the status quo "be ready to strike, if we have to strike"

Who saw that coming? lol

[-] 1 points by imagine40 (383) 5 years ago

And the west takes another country.


But it's not over. The islamic religious extremists only melted away. We will be killing Malians for years to come.