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Forum Post: Are we sure we want a revolution?

Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 6:51 p.m. EST by Patron32 (79)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Right off the bat, let me thank every individual soul who reads what I have to say. Like the movement, I am very passionate. The reason I wrote this is because I have a desire to reach out to my fellow Americans.

My question is, do we really want a revolution?

Have you ever seen Mel Gibson's film, "The Patriot"? The most chilling part of the movie is when his character joins the newly formed American Congress as they were deciding whether or not to essentially declare war on the mighty British empire. How odd that now, the ancestors of, and the inheritors of our forefathers efforts are picking up the good fight against our own government, the mighty American Corporation.

He is one of the few voices, who are not loyal to England, who wants to avoid a revolution. Why? Because it will not be a war fought in some distant foreign land, but in our cities, our apartment complexes, our schools and colleges, and our front yards. Our children, my daughter who is only four, her generation will be raised amidst...what?

I will be honest. I am 32 years old. I was a late bloomer and graduated with my BA degree in June of 2007. After 911 my superficial, consumerist, and sheltered mind lashed out. Since then, especially in the last four years since my daughter was born, I have yearned for a revolution. Countless times I have gone off in coffee shops, my living room, behind my computer, at my job, outraged at what I am watching. I am one of the 99%. My family has been a part of the 99% going all the way back to the day that movie depicted...but

It was only days after OWS began, I think Oct 5th, a revolutionary new book came out called, "American Epitaph", written by a guy named Damien. It was that novel that changed my mind. After I set it down, I looked at my daughter in shock and began to wonder if there is another way. http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/94223

Hundreds of cities and growing. Our movement is taking on a life of its own, feeding on the disillusionment, and discontent in our union.

The truth remains, the system is to broken to vote our way out of this mess. No amount of crafty signs are going to make a dent in their influence. Endless throngs of marching people will ultimately disturb nothing. Just the other day a massive arms fair happened in our country where the warmongers happily showed off and traded the new war machines and technologies. The war drums against Iran are beating again, just as the drums of the movement spread across the nation.

If we are really going to get what we are after it is going to take a revolution. A real one. The question remains, are we ready for that? Are our children? According to "American Epitaph", there is far more involved in all of this.

Thank you so much for everything you are doing. From my heart to yours, I support you. I fear for you, but I am inspired by you.




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[-] 6 points by anotherone773 (734) from Carlyle, IL 12 years ago

This can be done peacefully.The corps and politicians are scared. We are growing. Some are trying to embrace it, others are trying to discredit it.

They see us as a threat now. They will listen. Their only option is to use force and that only brings more people to our side using force against non violent protesters.

[-] 2 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

You make some good points. With this many people in this many cities confrontation is inevitable. How will the movement react?

[-] 3 points by anotherone773 (734) from Carlyle, IL 12 years ago

Always had a non violent policy. In fact, i believe protesters who encourage violence are thrown out ( of the camps). They let the police take them away using passive resistance. It is not resisting arrest. You are just making it hard on them to arrest you.

Every time the police have gotten violent it has brought us more people. They are actually encouraging the very thing they are basically trying to put down by using the police this way. Thus i believe they are now trying a different tactic( notice how the other side all stood down last night and are more willing to negotiate instead of remove by force)

They dont have enough jail cells to hold the 99% nor enough people to "arrest" that many people. Our strength is numbers. this is why everyone should remain politically neutral. No ideologies. Accept you will only get some of what you want not all of what you want out of this as far as left side or right side politics.

[-] 1 points by royalspirit (47) 12 years ago

It depends on what you are fighting for and the one you are fighting at. In some circumstances, a peaceful revolution does work while in some cases it does not and a violent uprising does. You can take a look at people's revolution that has happened in history. For instance the French revolution. Do you expect a peaceful protest will work for that? Everything became well when they beheaded their monarch. I am not saying that we have to kill but sometimes if the force of a peaceful protest is not enough, perhaps some other means will. Another example is the Chinese revolution during 1980s, an uprising of the students in the Tiananmen Square, it was a peaceful protest but it did not succeed because the evil of the Chinese government cannot be matched by just a peaceful protest. It needs something more.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Were the Civil Right's and Anti-War movements of the late 60's early 70's peaceful? If our movement does get to this degree of seriousness, do you think these days it would look worse, or perhaps better? Better in that we are not the same population we were in the late 60's.

[-] 2 points by royalspirit (47) 12 years ago

The best way is to stand by the Constitution, enforce it and obliged the government to follow it to the letter since it is the fundamental law of the land. The problem is that the Constitution as an ultimate law of the land exists only on paper and the government especially Congress has the nasty habit of violating it by passing bills that is incompatible to the Constitution and they do it right under our noses. Remember that the Constitution defines our fundamental rights. If they undermined the legal force of the Constitution then so the people are also in peril.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Awesome reply. So I can see you are a constitutionalist. We need more people like you. Let me ask you, what do you think our founding fathers, the creators of the constitution, would tell us to do with our current government? Do you think they would believe it is working as it should, if not, would kind of action would they support against it?

[-] 2 points by LincolnCA (160) 12 years ago

Our constitution clearly outlines how we are supposed to handle times like this, we are either too scared or haven't read it closely!

[-] 1 points by NuclearRadio (108) 12 years ago

If our institutions fail to abide by the laws in our Constitution, we are empowered to enforce it as the People of the United States.

[-] 0 points by deGrene (199) 12 years ago

There are some misundertandings about our founding fathers and our constitution. We have made it into a sacrosanct, monolithic demigod to which complete and utter orthodoxy is owed. The true fact of the matter is that the founding fathers would be appalled at teh fact we are using the same constitution they forged more than 200 years ago. As in most of Europe -- at the time and today -- constitutions are meant to be temporary documents. As the society changes and the needs and patterns of that society change, so must the constitution. There is not a single democratic nation in Europe, to my knowledge, that is still using the same constitution that was created at the time of their national formation.

The second falicy pertaining to The Constitution is that we understand what the founding fathers were saying. We do not -- no mre than we really understand what Shakespeare or Chaucer were saying, and for the same reason: the language of the 18th Century was entirely different than that of today. Words that meant one thing at the time have evolved and mutated to mean something entirely different now. Syntax, phrasing, even grammar is completely different. A perfect example is the prhase "all men are created equal." IN our lifetimes, we have pretty much taken for granted that it was simply a trun fo phrase and that, even if women were somehow negligently left out, it was meant to include all those of the male gendre. But this is not so. To be considred a "man" in the legal sense in the 18th Century, one had to be white, of European, (perferably British) extract, own property amounting to a certain sum, and come from a recognized lineage. All other males were considered property -- not just African slaves -- but all those who were not propertied and were not of certain status within the society were not considered men at all -- they were cahttle and refered to as such. So here we are, a couple of centuries later, trying to read this document in our form of the language and, when we run into something like that, we simply make it up or interpret it to suit our our own perspective of what it "should" mean.

If we want to even begin to understand the Consitution, we need to go about it the same way we do when studying the Dead Sea Scrolls or the New Testament or even Shakespeare and Chaucer -- we first must learn the language as it was intended to be used in situ and only then can we talk about the intent of the founding fathers.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

If the establishment is obviously willing to fund and maintain a massive global war machine/empire. Invade countries and topple governments. Etc...etc...then how is peaceful protest going to sway them? I am not insinuating I would like the antithesis, just trying to bring to light a logical fallacy that the war machine will take anything peaceful as a threat.

[-] 1 points by royalspirit (47) 12 years ago

The US government main hidden agenda is to unify the world under the one world government such as the term New World Order, Oh no its not a conpiracy theory it just happens to be part of the topic discussed by Conspiracy Theorists.

At first glance, a united world, one world government sounds good but if you look at it in another point you will see that it is an easy way to better control all people in this world. It is still better that the nations of the world are divided as independent sovereign nations.

Don't you wonder why US military has installations all around the world? Promoting democracy? Fighting terrorists? Oh c'mon, tell it to your grandma she might believe you.

[-] 1 points by pseudowilliam (21) from Brooklyn, NY 12 years ago

yes, one unified world order, of course, is the neo-liberal discourse. Its the cosmopolitan agenda (which is utterly convervation, burgeois). Kant (1795) pointed at this, from a philosphic perspective, in his essay on 'PERPETUAL PEACE' (Zum ewigen Frieden. Ein philosophischer Entwurf. (German)).

In the same way is the HUMAN RIGHTS discourse a highly obfuscated discourse. A discourse that veils the western, economic/political neo-liberal hegemony and ideology. For example, one world government means; deconstruction of economic borders (mind you, not migrations!!), tariffs, free trade, unified 'currencies'. The discourse of single world government, in short, is The Wolf in Sheep's Clothing.

Indeed, a single world order is precisely a " way to better control all people in this world". As well as, to defined clearer who are the enemies, extra-legal.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

I am not trying to minimize the point you are making, truly I am not. But i cannot control one four year old. I think that since beginning, history shows us that "control" is a very relative term. What if the people used the NWO to better organize and cooperate though?

[-] 1 points by royalspirit (47) 12 years ago

Hmm I dont think so because most of the people who are involve in promoting NWO those people in the top are those people who are also involve in one way or another in our miseries, political and economic such as the wars and besides to better organize and cooperate can be done and has been done through our current system of separate individual political sovereign nations

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Well, for me, as being at least to some degree a science fiction buff, I agree with it in that our fictional representations of Utopian future societies is that they are all one. They unified. They are a single species, a single race of people, without borders, without nationalities, without all those cerebral walls we have put up in the name of fearful consumerism. Maybe a unified human race would be ugly at first, all of our huge cultural transitions are, so isn't it a step we have to take?

[-] 1 points by anotherone773 (734) from Carlyle, IL 12 years ago

It is easy to fight another country, it is not so easy to fight your own citizens. Americans would not stand for a police state. And the military is to protect and defend the people.

Start reminding soldiers that use the constitution if you have too. Soldiers have much more honor than politicians and better morals. You think our military is going to go around shooting its own people? Good luck finding a decent size group of soldiers that will do that. Especially with how the govt treats them?

[-] 2 points by royalspirit (47) 12 years ago

Joining the military does not mean that you will be defending the country. The purpose of the U.S. military should be to defend the United States. Period. Yet, one of the greatest myths ever invented is that the current U.S. military somehow defends our freedoms. First of all, our freedoms are not in danger of being taken away by foreign countries; if they are taken away it will be by our own government. It is not a country making war on us that we need to fear, it is our government making war on the Bill of Rights. And second, how is stationing troops in 150 different regions of the world on hundreds of U.S. military bases defending our freedoms? It is not the purpose of the U.S. military to change regimes, secure the borders of other countries, or spread democracy at gunpoint. The Department of Defense should first and foremost be the Department of Homeland Security.

I know those who are in the military will hate me for this but I tell you soldiers, you know nothing but only to follow orders just like a dog. Stupid isn't it?

[-] 1 points by NuclearRadio (108) 12 years ago

Soldiers are empowered to disobey commands that contradict the Constitution.

[-] 1 points by anotherone773 (734) from Carlyle, IL 12 years ago

I agree mostly with what you said. The military should be able to project power anywhere in the world fairly quickly but it is being abused now. We should keep a few bases all over the world. One in Europe, one in Asia, one in the middle east. But the rest need to go and the troops need to come home. We pay these soldiers to defend America not run all over the world fighting wars for politicians.

I do not like our foreign policy. We interfere to much in world affairs in all the wrong ways. If i wasn't American i wouldn't like us very much.

[-] 1 points by royalspirit (47) 12 years ago

IT is because they had a a hidden agenda and they are slowly completing it. The unification of the world under one government to better control the Earth.

[-] 1 points by glenn1984 (57) 12 years ago

I they paint OWS as anarchist / communist mob they will. German troops during WWII were not evil, but they gassed their own teachers, doctors, shop keepers ... propaganda and perception.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

I think it is amazing you make this point. Thank you. One of the two main characters in http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/94223 is a young man who is swept into the national guard to help shut down phoenix AZ because the movement in that city has grown out of control. The author was brilliant in depicting how this will go down, from that characters perspective. :) Cheers

[-] 1 points by twisted (110) 12 years ago

They will only consider you a real threat when it starts to cost Wall street Money. At present you are thought of an annoyance, irritation and they will respond in that fashion.

You will know they take you seriously when the Tasers come out

[-] 2 points by anotherone773 (734) from Carlyle, IL 12 years ago

They have tried the police tactic already. It actually makes us stronger when they do. It gets plastered all over the net when they resort to violence and gives us a surge of protesters.

They now are trying other methods. The more violence they use the more people will show up. They cannot win. They cannot jail everyone eventually we will have huge numbers and getting violent will become much much more risky for the guys that are ordered to get violent. This is going to make them rethink that position.

[-] 1 points by royalspirit (47) 12 years ago

Excelent insight, you are actually right in there unless we are in China were evil actually reigns 100% all the time and they are not afraid to show force and kill civilians if that is necessary just to hold on their power.

I think they are doomed. Those crooked politicians who are in the position to protect and promote the interests of these evil corporate crooks are in jeopardy having the dilmena on how to act publicly or else they fear of being exposed of their true colors allowing those who voted for them that they were deceived.

[-] 2 points by jeepman133 (14) 12 years ago

Bingo, you hit the nail on the head. when multiple cities are forced to deal with the cost of this movement, you can be assured the feds phone will be ringing off the hook. i am sure mayors and Governors are already contacting the feds. rest assured people in high places are worried about this movement. they understand the American people are pissed off and won't allow business as usual to be conducted any longer. let's hope the leaders of this country do the right thing and address the problems they created and that violence doesn't become necessary.

[-] 2 points by changeinmotion2 (66) from Portland, ME 12 years ago

Revolt - change needs to happen - Make Corporations Responsible for Communities at large... they need to be responsible actors in this game - they need to be forced to change ...

Read Neale Walsh ... says it perfectly ... any corporation - all employee salaries are visible - each knows what each is making... cap the salary level where above this any profits get cut - percentage to the work force... percentages to management - they get paid more for a reason and are not hourly for a reason- they are paid high enough already to make the hard decisions... workers making the product, workers keeping the quality high and making management happy deserve the biggest bang... now once you have that you take another percentage and GIVE to programs - GIVE to charity ... you make your American Corporations RESPONSIBLE - put this into legislation -

CHANGE EXISTING Legislation - we need to see Banking Regs change - we need to change the SEC rules and regs... we need to change the way corporations are allowed to do business. THEY MUST be made into responsible bodies that support their communities... Make Corps Responsible to the Communities at large...

[-] 2 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Thank you so much for choosing to reach out and share. I appreciate your reply. Also, I am a huge fan of NDW. His CWG books really touched my life and influenced a big portion of my early twenties. Such a wise man, one of the greatest modern philosophers in my opinion. You should share this with more people! Cheers.

Such great ideas :)

[-] 1 points by changeinmotion2 (66) from Portland, ME 12 years ago

thank you Patron32! i am doing just that posting this where ever i can... NDW GREAT ideas and models to live by! We are heading into radical change - needs to be... i feel for obama... he got the shaft handed to him... here is another one of my posts only because i have been employed for many years and live in corp america - have fought against them only to see my tiny step be hushed... though we never really know what impact we have on another ... its been worth every battle i've ever engaged in!

"posted on another board - response appropriate: --> r u kidding? obama's number one focus has been to create CHANGE - any change at this point ... he was handed a pile o crap started in the late 80's - when AMERICAN CORPS started down sizing and sending our jobs overseas - to the likes of China, Mexico.... for cheap labor - child in many cases - just continuing the ABUSE that was already thrust upon them by their own communistic dictatorial abusive employers... we just USE them - kill jobs here and send em over there so what? So the big guns can buy more cars and homes and live like a barbie doll plastic ahole!

Hmm lets see under whose watchful administration did this all begin... NOT OBAMA's... he got da shaft!

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

You my friend are making a difference. Your posts are going out into the world freely and unmoderated, and I would like to believe will, like NDW, cause countless ripples of the good. I can see you are a supporter of Obama. There is nothing wrong with that. Keep posting, keep sharing, and never stop viewing yourself as greater than the establishment would have you.

You are more than you seem to be, while seeming to be more than you are.


[-] 1 points by paulscottwright (17) 12 years ago

conversations with god by neale donald walsch changed my life and that of many others. just with love and peace an a little bit of common sense! ha ha much love from the isle of man x x x viva la evolution x x x

[-] 2 points by twisted (110) 12 years ago

The Revolution has already begun

your choice is whether you want to win it or lose it

[-] 1 points by Idahoamerican (57) 12 years ago

There is no way that things will change without an actual revolution. Nobody wants to DO anything..they just want to yell that it's not fair..and everyone involved has different things to whine about. When we stop throwing a temper tantrum and stomping our feet expecting the government to give a damn, we will all see that unless we TAKE our country back, nothing will change. We have all seen the revolution coming for years...now it's actually got to happen. Or we should just tuck our tails and accept what we have now.

[-] 1 points by pseudowilliam (21) from Brooklyn, NY 12 years ago

Revolution may be a too abstract and generic term. We need some radial shift, change, resetting the system. (bypassing everyday/beltway, etc. politics)

For example, one revolution may be a 'CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION'. This vehicle is deeply entrenched and defined in the U.S. Constitution. THis would allow to bypass all thee branches of government and have a democratic 'non-partisan', non-beltway politics. That exactly is what the framers intended this constitutional convention to be; to bypass everyday politics (which we all know is dead in the water). This won't be easy and quick, but at least it is one concrete thought of 'revolution.'

U.s. Constitution, Article V, Convention, "The Congress,... on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;... "

[-] 1 points by Billyblastoff (33) 12 years ago

This movement, in order to have any credibility needs more legitimacy. Get organized in a democratic way and show that system to the population. We no longer have to be represented by elected people, we as individuals, could each have our say in our respective country's affairs. If the population had been asked about bailing out the banks, that would certainly not have happened. The future is bright and time has come for a better more human way to deal with our ressources.

Sorry, the rest is copy and paste, please read on.

Voters’ turnout in North America is constantly going down and people are disillusioned with the electoral process and feel it has now become a bit meaningless to vote. It is not enough for most people just to vote once every four years to elect someone that will later be corrupted or do whatever.

In order to create a better democracy, we need to be able to bypass at least some of the representative process. Modern communications is now allowing us to say what we want as individuals and we no longer need to be represented by people in parliament to take decisions for us. The role of the government should be to propose directions society could take but letting the people decide through referendums (direct democracy). This process, while alleviating corruption by removing some power to elected people, would allow some decisions that no political party would ever attempt to take because they would often be against the interests of influent lobby groups and powerful corporations.

So far, the main stomping block for e voting taking on is revolving around confidentiality (anonymity) and hacking concerns. Those issues could be addressed by having an open e voting system by which the database, although anonymous, would be open allowing voters to verify that their vote is accounted for and accurate. The users could get a random number identifying them in the database and check if that number (or key) is associated with the correct vote for the given referendum, many could be run simultaneously. The best would be to create a package using maybe Open Office as a way for the user to manipulate the database to verify his/her vote and analyze the data if desired. The difficulty in having a representative and legitimate vote is to be able to use the electoral database for the constituencies to generate the individual keys; maybe someone would have to be elected the old fashion way clearly stating this goal as a platform... Looking at what is happening in the Arab world, this might be a way to quickly implement a form of democracy in places where there is nothing yet to support it. Your movement is very fertile ground for these ideas to take roots, there are highly educated motivated people in your group that could make this a reality and elaborate a system that would account for minority rights, server setups, phone interface etc. It could also (one can dream) create a whole new world where every voice can finally be heard and be as important towards decision making as anyone else. No matter the size of the voter’s bank account or number of influential friends: we have to take the power back.

Thanks for your time.

[-] 1 points by RationalReaper (188) 12 years ago

Yes...I am sure and I am ready if it comes to that.

[-] 1 points by spritzler (12) from Boston, MA 12 years ago

Please read why revolution is not only necessary but possible, and what a good society based on equality would look like, in "Thinking about Revolution" online at www.NewDemocracyWorld.org/Thinking.pdf and related articles at www.NewDemocracyWorld.org .

Thank you.

Thank you.

[-] 1 points by deGrene (199) 12 years ago

I think you misunderstand. Revolution, whether peaceful or violent is not a matter of desire; it is a matter of necessity. Thomas Jefferson said something along the lines of Men will endure the most terrible injustices until they can bear them no more; only then will they rise up and shake them off. What he meant is that revolution of any kind is a last resort, because it is always, no matter what form it takes, messy, chaotic and frighteningly uncertain. What will happen after the revolution? Who will emerge to be in charge? What shape will the new society take? All of these things are, indeed, frightening, but they were frightening to the Jews in Hitler's Germany, and the dissidents in Stalin's Soviet Union; they were frightening to the Egyptians and the Tunisians and teh Lybians -- they still are, more so now than ever. But the fact remains that those revolutions NEEDED to happen; they were put off until there was no other recourse, and that is what is beginning to happen ehre. It can be hanled in a way that is less chaotic and less uncertain, or, if those in power do not wish to change, it can be allowed to fester, as the Birtish and French did in the 18th Century. Nevertheless, change will come.

I find it telling that the most chilling moment in The Patriot was when Gibson's character decided to join the revolution. What so many people missed in that scene and that movie was the Gibson's cahracter remained completely true to form: he acted only out of self-interest, not out of any love of freedom or hatred of tyranny; his only motivation was that his son had been taken prisoner. He held no greater Truth than his only selfish interests. That to me is directly comparably to those in Congress and those who run the Corporate States of America who have only their interests at heart and not those of the people of the nation.

Anyone who is not frightened by the prospect of upheaval and revolutionary change -- again, whether peaceful or violent -- is very likely mentally disturbed. But those who run from the need for those changes are the very enablers that allow the injustice to occur and perpetuate in the first place. It's the sheep-like mentality and the cowering before confrontation that the powerful rely on in the peasantry in order that they be "kept in line."

[-] 1 points by Busen (4) 12 years ago

Someone trying to sell his book so he can party with the 1%!

[-] 1 points by Busen (4) 12 years ago

Someone trying to sell his book so he can party with the 1%!

[-] 1 points by Busen (4) 12 years ago

Someone trying to sell his book so he can party with the 1%!

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

I can see why you would say that, but I wonder what you might say if you read it. The comment would seem very strange indeed. That would be like telling the creators of the constitution that all they really wanted was to be just like England...

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 12 years ago

See the discussion, "Thomas Jefferson is celebrating somewhere tonight," on this forum.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

I will thank you

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 12 years ago

Our revolution doesn't have to be bloody. Knowing your enemy's weakness can lead to victory without a single physical blow being dealt.

The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. Sun Tzu

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Good quote, thanks for sharing. I have been reading a book about Sun Tzu off and on for a while. What is the weakness you refer to?

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 12 years ago

The banks are so deeply in debt, that if we reinstate The Glass-Steagall Act, all the bad banks will go bankrupt.

Lear more on my article here: http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/literacy-wanted/

[-] 1 points by Abe (5) 12 years ago

Ha, found it! Good book, people should check this thing out! Share and promote your movements writers!

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

I agree, thank you, I also, like your younger brother am trying to spread the word.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

I must say I am impressed with the conversations I am having, arent you? At first I did not know what to expect lol.

[-] 1 points by ruralNC (1) from Washington, NC 12 years ago

We have to continue to try to make changes in our political and social system. I agree it must be done peacefully. I am older and I support the protest through a monetary contribution. Thank you for having the courage to try to make a difference. Namaste.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

We all do what we can. I am helping take care of a seventy eight year old woman right now, and I know the world will be a much colder world without her generation when they go. My daughter, her granddaughter means everything to us. When we sit around discussing the news, she is a news hound, her main concern is for the young. Let me say, from their heart to yours, everyone appreciates your support!

[-] 1 points by DCResident (70) 12 years ago

It looks like you're trying to sell your own book. Fake story, then link to a self-written e-book. Am I right? Be honest.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Thank you for taking the time to ask me this. I think you are trying to sense whether I am sincere or not. I can appreciate that. Let me assure you, through and through, that the story is 100% real. I wanted to go more in depth but I think people have been hearing enough war stories atm. As for the book, think of it like this.

When one of our fellow Americans in the movement, whether in Seattle or Boston, decides they are going to make a sign, they are just supporting an idea. They are trying to make that idea they believe in stand out, whether it was their idea or not. Consider what I am doing like that. I found something I truly identify with that really supports the movement, so I put it on my digital piece of cardboard. :)

Cheers friend in our nations capital. <3

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 12 years ago

Friend without a global unified voice of 100's of millions or billions demanding PEACE, the revolution will never take place.

The war drums ARE booming. This is the intention of a rigged economic collapse. It was never anything more than a pretext for WWIII. We know the system is rigged. So the collapse has been engineered. But why? War. It is what they do. It is how our economy is enforced in the first place. Violent threat is how their system is executed. They simply kill or destroy entire countries. Imprison people.

You are sensing the larger issue. This is beyond revolution. It is revelation. I truly hope people understand the seriousness of this. As a whole many people are so disconnected from the war we have supported they cannot even imagine that evil people have plotted this from the start.

People are already dying. 1 million ++ in the last 8 years. We need a larger vision. We need good people, world-wide to stand up for Peace NOW. Otherwise war will be declared in the dead of night and the opportunity for unifying the rally for Peace will be gone.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Thank you so much for sharing. You obviously have done your homework and feel passionately about seeing the bigger picture. The thing is, "They" are not some alien race, "they" are us. We must all be one. If we do not embrace those we seek to change, they will not embrace us. Keep posting and sharing, I like you.


[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 12 years ago

You are so right. They are us. We should let go of the guilt of ignorantly supporting evil. They must let go of the fear and guilt as well. It's right to take control of your moral authority. You cannot water down the truth of love and peace. Keep expressing what you know is True about Peace and Freedom. Enslaved people in every position will connect with the freedom we take to express what is right. Without fear of excluding or threatening. And yes our politicians and the people in our military need to be embraced and inspired to stand with Good people who care about life. When they see people who are standing outside the system of control, with authority, Peace and freedom, they will be drawn to that. Good people KNOW the truth when they see it being expressed. We have to believe that. You are completely spot on.

That said, i can't pretend to understand the kind of spirit that is able to order killing, mutilation, maiming of innocent people.. children. I haven't directly confronted that kind of darkness in myself or outside of myself. And i know i have to see the possibility in them to let go.. but i can't imagine what would be required in them to do that. I cannot stop expressing truth, peace and freedom because of what they may not be able to overcome in themselves. No one should. That is the war of Peace. Focus on Peace. Keep focusing on it. Keep expressing it.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

A part of me thinks that only an evolutionary step can change what you are referring to in the hearts and minds of human beings. In so many ways are act like our ancient ancestors in out in the wild cowering from the darkness. Our darkness these days is indifference. What do you think? Indifference to nature, to morality, and to one another.

I can tell you are one of the positive concerned hearts out there in the world. Just being in it makes it better for all of us, so never stop expressing that wonderful mind of yours!

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 12 years ago

Thanks friend. I see it in you. Imagine 7 billion seeing it? In a 2 post conversation we can feel real growth. We are becoming free right now by expressing what is true. This is evolution. I mean REAL evolution in the sense you are talking about. Imagine 7 billion standing in solidarity, all sharing what is real and true. Standing in freedom. No more supporting violent domination under duress or fear. Can you imagine what we truly are? Violent domination is the root of indifference.. if we believe our true nature is goodness.. then somewhere we have believed in fear. When the truth of Peace, Freedom and Love is known this world will not be recognizable. There is a real chance here. We have to imagine our physical bodies dying for this. But standing in solidarity makes it easy to overcome that fear. I am not suggesting everyone lay down and die of course! Just really looking at what is the root of our burden? fear of violent domination, death. If this fear was truly eliminated life becomes infinitely powerful. Things like accumulating money are beyond ridiculous because of the true contentment, meaning and purpose the entire world can experience together.


[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Man that is why I am trying to spread the news about http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/94223 it is a book that obviously comes from within a movement like the ones we are apart of and I think many people should check it out. I am proud to stand aside people like you.

[-] 1 points by RastafariAmerican (141) from Yonkers, NY 12 years ago

Human beings are not inherently greedy.

Human beings are a product of their environment.

Human beings reflect their environment.

The human race is suffering from a value system disorder.

We, as a society cannot seem to denote wrong from right.

This must change.

The world must evolve.

The government must evolve.

The economic system must evolve.

Love will shine. Love will illuminate the truth.

Love for all mankind. Love for all the world's inhabitants.

Peace, Love, and Unity.

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 12 years ago

Peace brother. Goodness is what is real. We are violently dominated, so out of fear we support evil. But no more. As soon as you take hold of your moral authority, without judgement, true freedom and liberty take hold.

So Peace and Love to you!

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Such a great post. "The human race is suffering from a value system disorder". Man, that truly says it all doesn't it, and consider the implications. Please share your thoughts with more people! Cheers. http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/94223

[-] 1 points by paulscottwright (17) 12 years ago

i have no fear i have only love x x x thank you very much for your support, we are the 99% but ultimately we are 100%. one love. much love and peace always from the isle of man x x x

[-] 2 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Good to hear. I support you, the movement, because like true American soldier Patriots you are supporting me, and looking out for my daughters interests as well. She is our future!


[-] 1 points by thejunkie (50) 12 years ago

You [America] have only one problem and it is not Wall Street or the Rich or the Banks or the Government or any of the institutions or individuals you now wish to blame.

Your problem which is leaving people without a home or food to eat, which is causing global destruction, war and poverty starts with yourselves. Look a little bit deeper and you will find your lifelong friend and the quality which shapes your society and culture 'Greed' and 'Ego'.

It does not take a genius to see that you are addicted to the product that comes from Banking and Wall Street. You want the Movies, Junk Food, Technology, Fashion, Travel & all other useless and equally destructive forms of 'Greed' and 'Ego', but you do not want to face it's consequences.

Just like a Heroin Junkie you blame everyone around you for your suffering, but want to continue using the Drug, so you do. Now you cry because the suffering has become so much and the Drug dealers do not seem to care. You want them to supply you with cheaper Drugs and fair distribution, claiming that this will solve the problem of your suffering, but never facing your addiction born from 'Greed and 'Ego'.

You have become numb to any form of wisdom and real intelligence, basing your life upon products and squandering, bought from the very same people you now blame. You create Hollywood movies depicting yourselves, celebrating the very things you now lack of, the Drugs that keep you going, that destroy your societies and creates suffering and yet you still not realize.

Tomorrow you will be back to producing, selling and buying useless garbage in all it's forms, celebrating it through media, social networks etc. until you reach the point of no return and your societies finally disintegrate, just like a Heroin Junkie finally reaches his end, where his body can not sustain the damage he causes through the use of the Drug.

I support you in your efforts, but do not see you succeeding without realizing that you are the ones buying the Drug, that you are the ones supporting the Drug and that you are the ones that will finally be the cause of your own destruction. Money is not sustainable and never will be, if you have not realized this yet, then you probably never will. Money will always have the same effect [War, Violence, Greed, Suffering, Destruction].

I hope you have enjoyed reading this on your newly acquired iPad, while sipping on your favorite from Starbucks, dressed in your most comfortable Levis, getting ready to indulge in a Mac Royal [Triple Cheese] with extra Chips.

Lotsa Love


[-] 2 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Thank you so much for taking the time to really think that out and get across your sincere feelings clearly. The point you make is a very potent one. I do not want to criticize, instead I would just like to share a quote with you I heard as a young man. I think it is pertinent. I do not know who said it originally or where it comes from.

"Beware of those whom you judge, for it is they whom you are destined to one day become"

[-] 1 points by LOVEPEACE (199) 12 years ago

The value of the US dollar(the world reserve currency) is enforced through violent domination. Having more money actually makes you more indebted to the violent domination.

Most people accumulate out of a longing to be free. Unknowingly the accumulation actually erodes what little freedom they may have had by forcing them to support violent domination even more. This weighs heavy on the soul. It is soul destroying. It is a difficult way to live.

Do not judge them. They suffer greatly. Yes their support of violent domination ends up causing suffering as well, but it starts with fear. See in them the one pin-point of light and inspire them to stand up for TRUE freedom. Do not point at their guilt. Inspire them to overcome it. This is how the economy of violent domination is dismantled.

[-] 1 points by paulscottwright (17) 12 years ago

unless they do x x x

[-] 1 points by jamieto (1) 12 years ago

Hi, where can I find the American Epitaph book?

[-] 1 points by tstr (4) 12 years ago

Real question to ask is, is it possible to have a revolution without a leader?


[-] 1 points by tstr (4) 12 years ago

While on this question, participate on this SHMAPR polls here: http://www.shmapr.com/heatmap/showmap/869345 and here http://www.shmapr.com/heatmap/showmap/869342

Or create a new one at http://www.shmapr.com and sign up.

[-] 1 points by Wademan (4) 12 years ago

Agree, but I think what you are feeling is the fear before the fight, we all need this we must remind our friends on top who controls who

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

It does not have to be out control. If anything it is the overarching fear inherent within modernity that has caused all this mess. What we need is cooperation, not fear. Thank you so much for reaching out, contributing, and sharing. You're awesome!

[-] 1 points by Lork (285) 12 years ago

This mentality is really what prevails in the Hobbesian part of the middle class. (Read - The Leviathan) This is why they call OWS a "bunch of warlike hippies" and such. They just don't want a repeat of the British Riots. Consequently...this is also how We the People allowed our government to be bought out by the corporations and the banksters.

We should consider this. Thank you for telling us your story.

Or it could be that the 1% are actually the 53% or whatever such crap.

[-] 1 points by Windsofchange (1044) 12 years ago

The way I look at it is that we only have a certain amount of time to act before it is too late. I embrace non-violence, so naturally I wish that this not turn into the revolutions of the past (American and French). We need to find away to shake up the 1%, in my mother's words: "Put the fear of God in their hearts." Although, I don't use that phase religiously. Hit them where it hurts. Don't do business with them any longer. We need to become more community-minded and support small businesses and community banks. Remember Corporate America is depending on our money. When Black Friday comes around--SPEND NOTHING in any of the big stores! Buy everything locally and from small businesses. We have the power to build things up and to take down. Remember, we made these corporations rich and now we can let them suffer. All the while, we will build up the small businesses. Let them have our money--not greedy, thankless Corporate America. That would be start.

We also need to deal with many of our politicians who are bought out by the corporations. I am all for a ban on lobbyists as a start. This thing we are faced with is like a five-headed hydra. We can't just chop off one head. No, we need to strike at the heart by hitting upon the truth of what is really happening out there that is robbing us. Sometimes it is not easy to pin-point. I am against this crony-capitalism, corporate welfare, corporate personhood, tax breaks and rewards given to corporations who are outsourcing out jobs and are not true job creators. Let true job creators be handsomely rewarded for keeping jobs here. Anyway, I could go on an on , but this may be where we need to start.

Thanks for your post. I enjoyed reading it.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

You are right, the one weapon we the people have at our disposal is our free will when choosing to spend money. It is those choices that have brought us here, it can be a realignment of those choices that could save us. Thank you for taking the time to share and contribute. I appreciate it, and it sounds like you have a really smart mom!

[-] 1 points by royalspirit (47) 12 years ago

Yes we need a revolution.In other countries, revolution is a common place because people have the will and courage to do so. They can stand up against their government to correct it but in America that is not always the case and never it does have a people's revolution since, giving us an impression that we Americans are naive, lazy, cowards and is not concerned at all or doesn't care or shall I say cares only for themselves?

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Good point. Thank you for reaching out to me. I think that some good social unrest would show the world that the American people are not necessarily synonymous with the American governments empire of war.

[-] 1 points by Coreupt (294) 12 years ago

The solution is the dissolution of the establishment and the institution if equality. The problem is that society is afraid of equality.

One way we can make a difference is to volunteer: Technology is the impetus for the dawning of the new era. For the first time all of humanity can instantaneously communicate on a global scale. We can control our birth rate with the use of safe effective birth control. We have the resources to feed and house the world’s population. Most all human suffering is manmade or worsened by greed and lack of empathy. Technology has also given us the ability choose our destiny. We can continue the current trajectory: depletion of resources, growing inequalities and war. Or, we can choose a new way.

The path to enlightenment, equality, and sustenance is attainable with a united movement. Part of that movement is time bank. Time bank is a network of humanity. Organized on line. Completely transparent. All inclusive. Hour in. Hour out. That’s it. No person’s hour is more or less valuable than another.

A worldwide time bank can be started now. With enough participation it can catalyze the transition from the current corrupt monetary system to a society where money is irrelevant and each person is valued. Fear and greed will paralyze this movement. Hope and imagination can propel it.

Time is the Substance from which I am made. – Jorge Luis Borges

[-] 1 points by PostDivisionByZ (18) 12 years ago

This seems like a very promising idea and I've read about similar concepts. I'm fairly certain that a number of the sustainable community efforts are at least operating this way to a certain extent. In any case, there's no reason why certain communities can't implement concepts like this in a nation that might be overall dominated by other more capitalist systems, given that America after all is supposed to be "land of the free and home of the brave". Who said home of the "brave capitalists". Why not home of brave capitalists and brave socialists???? Seriously?

[-] 1 points by Coreupt (294) 12 years ago

seriously!! Start a time bank in your area. I'm working on one in my community now.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Awesome! Thank you so much for taking the time to write that out and share your good ideas. I think many of your perceptions are interesting and refreshingly unconventional. Cheers!

[-] 1 points by MJMorrow (419) 12 years ago

I do not support a revolution, rather I support the United States of America and I am a loyal citizen of the United States. I know the family members of some of our elected officials. I know I- Bankers and I am an MBA. I am not supporting a Marxist Socialist Revolution or any revolution. I will work to help create high paying jobs, within the framework of our Government and business and banking institutions. I intend to fully cooperate with our Government, our Nation and our people, including our men and women in uniform. I believe that the United States can fix her problems, without rejecting her system of Government and way of life.

I am not a part of an Arab Spring, since this in my opinion would constitute a betrayal of our Nation, a betrayal of our system of Government, a betrayal of my duty as a Citizen and my duty as an MBA. I urge everyone to act in a lawful, responsible manner and to be constructive and productive, in our search for a plan to create high paying jobs. In short, although I disagree with a CEO or a family member of a Senator, even though I too feel betrayed some of the time, I will not be a traitor to my People, my Nation or my Government.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

I want to personally tell you that I appreciate this comment. Thank you for taking the time to write it. It was very well said, and I could truly sense your sincerity. Cheers!

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Wow I must say I am impressed and disappointed by the community on this site all at once, it must be American! <3

[-] 1 points by anonrez (237) 12 years ago

pretty sure yeah thnx

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Keep the conversation coming, this is awesome. I for one am thankful they got this site going.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

How will we define winning or losing? Have we even begun to ask ourselves that? "American Epitaph" set it all out. Laid out the complex problem in simple terms through. If it was correct, and so far it has been, then we need to begin considering what winning means right away.

[-] 1 points by IlliniCornfields (71) from Elmhurst, IL 12 years ago

First, my friend, take heart. Your daughter, my son, all the kids today need our support and courage. second don't look to Hollywood for inspiration look to everyday people. The marches have to continue in order to rid ourselves of lobbyists - they are the ones who control everything - they are the tentacles of Megacorps. Rid ourselves of them and we can influence more. If we give up because we are afraid we lose from the start...don't be afraid be courageous!

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Amen to the that, well said. I could not agree more with the way our political system works. It definitely needs to be looked at with a fine tooth comb. Just that alone, would be a massive success. I have no idea what at this point I am going to tell her in a few years.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

It was just so sobering to see in a modern work of fiction, that came out at the exact same time the movement did that really puts the choices we have set before into such perspective. Not Hollywood, not the MSM machine, not the damn History channel, but real grassroots reality. I just keep me eyes and ears open. The day I hear one or more cities have gotten ugly, it is then I will look to see what the response from the movement will be. If that book is as prolific as it seems to be, then the choices have already been made and we are in for one very interesting winter. Cheers

[-] 1 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 12 years ago

I pray it NEVER come to open armed resistance because they have almost all of the fire power. But, can they claim that that all the troops will stay loyal? Remember the old Lone Ranger joke? " What u mean WE white man?

[-] 1 points by anotherone773 (734) from Carlyle, IL 12 years ago

Actually they dont control it. The people who work form then control it. Thus all you do is get the people who are part of the 99% with all the weapons on your side plus many own their own guns. But that really isnt necessary or wanted. I dont know why people think you must use force to change things.

[-] 1 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 12 years ago

You don't really believe an #OWS type protest would have changed the NAZIS do you?

[-] 1 points by anotherone773 (734) from Carlyle, IL 12 years ago

Probably not but things are different now. It could of been stopped early on i would say in the mid 30's. Mass protest would of resulted in Hitler being ousted from power. In other words people would simply stop listening to him. You have to remember soldiers are people to. Soldier's have their own morals and beliefs. Enough protest and soldiers start to feel like they are loyal to the wrong people. that maybe they are being used by the powers that be.

[-] 1 points by seaglass (671) from Brigantine, NJ 12 years ago

Not by the mid-30's. By then he had consolidated all power in Germany and the Army had sworn a blood oath to him personally. Only killing him then might have killed the snake ( the rest of the Nazis party) and turned it in on itself. Many people tried but thugs like Hitler assume that and have very loyal personal body guards. Had the opposition united in the early 30's instead of fighting among themselves as they did, I agree they might have stood against the Nazis and taken the wind out of their sails. Maybe?

[-] 1 points by Idaltu (662) 12 years ago

I have no idea what it will take to change the system. Voting has never worked but with OWS it might be different....My opinion...I doubt it. There are really only two possible outcomes. 1. we continue as slaves to the system. 2. (you fill this in with your best guess.)..

[-] 1 points by NuclearRadio (108) 12 years ago
  1. Continue as slaves to the system
  2. Go through a transformation in social consciousness; a. where every person feels empowered to be involved in the government b. where the paradigm is compassion instead of wrath c. where responsibility for oneself and the society is paramount d. where thorough and diverse education is easily gotten and not dependent on one's upbringing e. where people are seen as having inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the unfettered pursuit of happiness f. where we question our monstrous institutions and stop them if needed g. where the C-Corporation (not S-Corporation) most likely does not exist.... h. where people feel responsible for military action because they are invested in its outcome. i. where weapons are a tool for the knowledgeable and responsible, not a cash crop for sale to 3rd world countries j. where people take a vested interest in the development and fate of other countries k. where we agree as a society to live sustainably and readily develop technology to do so l. where everyone's creed or religion is accepted and tolerated, and never used as a bid for public power.
[-] 1 points by Idaltu (662) 12 years ago

I like it! Sign me up..... I can't imagine any sane person not wanting what you suggested. I wish there was a manageable plan for getting to those goals...a list of objectives that would eventually take us to a through k... I suppose we start with the easiest first. Then progress on up through the harder ones. The exchange of Active Compassion for wrath is probably one of the tougher ones. And that is noted even here on this forum. We have got to stop the knee jerk emotional reactions.

Thanks for the list...you might consider making it into a post for others to comment...and of course we ignore trolls and those still stuck in the abyss of anger.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

"a good revolution takes places, without much bloodshed and seeds of change for our children take root in the foundations of our twenty first century society." That was my best shot off the cuff.

[-] 1 points by ribis (240) 12 years ago

Violent revolution is only justified once all other avenues of redress have been exhausted. The Founding Fathers did everything imaginable to reconcile with Britain, until they could take no more, until it was absolutely clear that they would not be recognized. They did all of that, then they built a movement on the ground, and then they held a big-R Revolution.

Maybe it's the case that OWS is that last avenue. We won't know until we try it this way. We are not at the violent step right now. Have patience, it may not be necessary.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

That is the point exactly. Do we not find ourselves in a dichotomy? The country as it is now, is unsustainable. Anyone who defends the establishment troubles me because I cannot figure out their reasoning. All I can say is, check out that book, I think its like 3 bucks or something, anyways, it can provide the incite that I am not articulate enough to do justice for.

[-] 1 points by DefendUrRights (2) 12 years ago

Life is hard. There are no easy answers. You can't demand and steal from a bank that has nothing but IOU's.

I am convinced that our open borders are one of the biggest catalysts to our budget and deficit problems.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

It is true that our nation has been under siege. America helped get globalism off the ground and has supported it militarily for a while now. Some of the backlash is the influx of the downtrodden third world immigrants America helped create and sustain.

[-] 1 points by DefendUrRights (2) 12 years ago

Life is hard. There are no easy answers. You can't demand and steal from a bank that has nothing but IOU's.

I am convinced that our open borders are one of the biggest catalysts to our budget and deficit problems.

[-] 0 points by NuclearRadio (108) 12 years ago

The Revolution is already underway. The real revolution will require blood.

[-] 2 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

Perhaps you are right. Let us hope that it is very little.

[-] 1 points by NuclearRadio (108) 12 years ago

Indeed. I am not an advocate of bloodshed.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

I like to believe that in our hearts, no Americans are, but that is the more romanticized idealist in me.

[-] -1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 12 years ago

Many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:




because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.

Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link above, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.

Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. In this, sequence is key.

Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.

The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.

Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.

So please JOIN the 2nd link, so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for by e-mail from the group in the 2nd link, and then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the strategy of the 1st link as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your Occupation & Generation.

[-] 1 points by PostDivisionByZ (18) 12 years ago

Sir... I appreciate your sentiment and am in full alignment with your goals. I also fully beleive that there are social & human rights laws that must be upheld for social stability. There is allot of complexity in your detailed list of recommendations, and I can't take time to review it at this time. However, philosophically, I like to leave challenging projects to subject matter experts, or the pros per se. Additionally, I prefer to keep things simple if possible.

So in this case, we need a powerful set of financial regulatory and investigation groups that are accountable to the people, (that seemed to be the jist of your plan). However, the consumer protection bureau and SEC should be providing these services, they just were either first non-existent then disempowered (in case of CPB) and staffed with irresponsible and perhaps even corrupt officials in case of SEC. But in any case, if the objective is to prevent similar financial shady dealings, would you agree that in essence an empowered consumer protection bureau could meet that need?

I guess in a way, this whole thing is so infuriating, because I thought that the whole point of government was to provide both short-term operational infrastrucutre and services (including protection) and long term strategic development of the citizens. Ohh... oops... I guess somewhere along the line, they must have forgotten about that???

[-] 2 points by karai2 (154) 12 years ago

Nothing is long term anymore because politicians are just positioning themselves for the next election cycle.

[-] 1 points by Patron32 (79) 12 years ago

I think that is an interesting though, thank you for sharing it. Could you perhaps expand on it a little bit?

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 12 years ago

Einstein said that we must have a higher level of thinking (or complexity) in solving today's problems than the lower level of thinking (or simplicity) that created those problems in the first place. Consequently, we all must become Subject Matter Experts (or Auditing Bank & Business Owner-Voters) -- by Occupation & Generation -- on behalf of high-level Offices like the SEC and CPB, for those Offices obviously can't end corruption without "the masses" being "watchful" on their behalf. So, I agree with you and only desire to extend the capabilities of those Offices, for although the Government does a good job at providing "short-term operational infrastructure", they fall far short on providing "long-term strategic development" of its citizens. Consequently, I hope you'll join the 2nd link so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for, at exactly the right time, by an e-mail from that group – – that is, in support of the above the bank-focused platform in the 1st link.

[-] 1 points by PostDivisionByZ (18) 12 years ago

I both like and recognize the serious WISDOM in that particular Einstein quote and what you wrote resonates with me deeply. I'll try to find the time to review your more detailed plan. Is there anyway that you could produce a more concise summary... perhaps one or two summary sentences per step?

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 12 years ago

Thanks, I hope you'll join the group in the 2nd link cited so that we can further empower ourselves, for there are always long-term alternatives to short-term problems, if we know where to find each other, right?

Yes, I've been working to produce " a more concise summary" for the last 27 years as a Marine, Certified Public Accountant, Computer Programmer, and Socioeconomic Analyst, and what you've seen in only the tip of iceberg as it concerns the full depth and breath of the 48 Tactical Investment Procedures.

For example, there are also immediately practical solutions to tackling the problem of global warming. For example, the 99%, as Home Town Banks of 65,000 Members, can divide themselves into 16,384 Vehicle Investment Groups of 4 Members, with each group of 4 Members purchasing a hybrid-diesel-hummer-limo Cab which they then put into their Town Cab Fleet of 16,384 Cabs. Why? Because this would reduce their Individual Transportation Costs by 75% (Cost of 1 Cab / 4 Members = 75% less cost per member), and yet they would have a Luxury Limo Cab available to them, out of 16,000 cabs in their Town, five minutes after calling for one, but not necessarily the specific luxury cab they own 25% of. This 75% reduction in Individual Transportation Costs -- for everyone -- reduces transportation prices by 75%, and thus money, by 75%, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, let's not forget the lessening of Mother Nature's burden with 75% less CO2 from having 75% fewer cars with no traffic jams. Furthermore, the list of simple productivity improvements like this one -- which the 99% want but the 1% don't want -- are endless. But first, the 99% must control the banks before they can control their Town (and National) design in this manner which is less costly (in terms of the worker hours to maintain it by 75% too) and yet have 75% greater luxury (such as a limo cab) at the same time. Consequently, to decentralize banking into a Direct Democracy is to lower cost 75% is to lower price 75% is to lower the existence of money by 75%, and eventually, to lower prices to near zero through automation, nanotechnology, etc, but ONLY as bank owner-voters.

However, right now I'm very busy trying to gather a group, so I have to further refine that first link later, or perhaps you can help me to reduce it.