Forum Post: Are there any demands yet?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 31, 2011, 9:33 a.m. EST by seeker
(242)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Just curious.
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This is an experiment in Direct Democracy by anarchists. It has been effective in attracting alot of attention. This movement has managed take advantage of every social/political/economic frustration to gain attention.
However, Direct Democracy in a park will not translate to the government of a country that is the greatest country on earth and leader of the free world.
Our Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, gave us a Representative Republic. No way is a group of anarchists going to improve on what our Founding Fathers gave to us.
I suppose the 98.99% should give proper credit to the anarchists for launching this experiment. It has helped us to discuss and speak out about many legitimate frustrations and problems in our country.
However, no OWS GA will ever take up the legitimate demands of the majority (ie: campaign finance reform, financial reform, corporate personhood) with the purpose of affecting change through government. Because this is not their goal. Their goal is to use the majorities legitimate frustration to gain support for one thing: Direct Democracy.
I believe that 99.99% of people will reject Direct Democracy beyond the park. It is up to the 98.99% to move our legitimate issues with government out of the park. To work with government and through government to enact the positive changes that we want for our country.
yes
Shouldn't this movement be in WASHINGTON???? I could accept it more if it were where it should be. Washington dictates everything and everyone...including Wall Street.
I would argue that Goldman, JPMorgan and the other private banks that make up the Fed all based around wall street who own the media and corporations that own much of the worlds resources dictates policy to Washington.
That said without changing the system Washington is where change can be made.
Maybe but WASHINGTON sets the rules, so to speak.They make the regulations which unfortunately is against the average citizen
Read newspaper, there are many demands ongoing.
End War, free(or afordable) education,free healthcare, end de FED, end the relation betwen politycs and money... and much more...
Demands? Like in when one kidnaps? What the heck?
I think the idea behind OWS is an undirected attempt at gathering people that are dissatissfied with the way the government and business are currently working together. The only goal Ive ever seen mentioned to date anywhere for OWS that I would actually believe would best be described as "Limiting Money's Influence on our Governing Body, to return the goverment to a state that looks out for everybody's interests".
As far as Demands, someone posted one awhile ago, but I think it was a hoax, not sure, it involved a demand for a new works program, and its WAY too early in the game IMHO to be demanding that sort of thing..... Until then, near as I can tell (plz correct me if Im wrong), OWS is an expression of unhappiness at the current system.....
The idea that the Occupy movement is ever going to focus on an 'official' set of demands is something that confused and distracted me for a long time as well. That won't happen, because that isn't what they're trying to do.
I would like to think they are trying to expose the corruption, crimes and injustices of the current system and find a way forward for another. But when you read forum rules it rules out the alternative media and promotes censorship.
I should of asked what is it they are trying to do?
They're trying to create a model society, to demonstrate their utopian vision for how the whole country should run. An all-inclusive direct-democracy. They're not trying to affect the political system as it exists, because nihilism is the dominant ideology in the movement, and the nihilists don't believe that the current political system will ever represent them. So they're not interested in voting, and they're not interested in electing their own candidates to represent their concerns like the Tea Party did.
IMHO, considering the fact that the NYC and LA occupations have both fractured into two separate hostile factions ( http://www.theawl.com/2011/10/the-night-occupy-los-angeles-tore-itself-in-two and http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/occupy-wall-street-central-a-rift-growing-east-west-sides-plaza-article-1.969320?localLinksEnabled=false ) and considering the ongoing efforts to subjugate the "freeloaders", and considering that they invested half a million dollars on Wall Street, they're not doing a very good job of demonstrating a model society that we should all emulate. They seem to actually be emulating the society that we already have.
A direct democracy sounds good..Has electing people to represent us ever worked???
Nihilism is what the current system is..Just look at the wars and debt.
It is arguable also that "freeloading" is what the bankers do.
Nihilism is the perfect antidote to idealism. For every idealistic protester who is focused on effecting political change, there is a nihilist protester who is convinced that participating in the current political system is futile. They cancel each other out like matter and anti-matter. End result: nothing changes. Total ineffectiveness.
One of the basic functions of our representative system is that our elected officials are responsible for framing the issues that are important, and drafting legislation. In a true direct democracy, the masses would be responsible for focusing on the most important issues. As a demonstration of the feasibility of that idea, this movement has been an abject failure, as demonstrated by the fact that it's been a month and a half and the movement has not even come close to focusing on specific positions on specific issues. To me, the movement is an illustration of the fallacy of the idea of mob rule. If everybody is in charge and there are no leaders, then absolutely nothing gets accomplished.
What has confused me is figuring out what it is that yo are trying to do.
I showed up here originally as a potential supporter, and I explained my point of view here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/vote-or-else-this-will-all-be-a-pointless-exercise/ I now see the error in my thinking. The point of the movement isn't to accomplish political changes that make government more responsive to the concerns of the 99%.
I also was trying to recruit for high-skill, high-pay, entry-level jobs in a high-demand industry with extremely low unemployment. I thought that this pool of over-educated, under-employed young people with MacBook Pros and iPads and iPhones would be perfect for the mobile app and web development jobs that I have available. I also see the error in my ways on that one now, and I have given up on that.
What has confused me is figuring out what it is that yo are trying to do.
Eliminate the debt,a manufactured number from fake money printed with a click of a mouse..no goods or service required..Try for treason anyone connected to the wholesale robbery of our Treasury..Impeach Congress,the Supreme Court,Arrest The Bankers..Try them for treason,for bankruptng the world with cdos and endless debt..End the Federal Reserve and the IRS..Seize the assets of all Traitors incuding House of Rothschild,Rockefeller and Bush..Seize their assets and distribute to all people,the ones these transnationals stole it from
I would go with that.. And include impeach all war criminals and war profiteers and seize their assets.