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Forum Post: Boycott Apple ? CEO paid $378 million pay package for off-shore production.

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 10, 2012, 2:19 p.m. EST by Rico (3027)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

LOS ANGELES — Tim Cook could well end up being the highest paid CEO in America in 2011, after Apple Inc. granted him a million restricted stock units last August for taking the reins shortly before co-founder Steve Jobs died.

An Associated Press review of a securities filing shows Cook’s pay package was valued at $378 million. The vast majority came in a grant of a million restricted stock units worth $376 million at the time. Half of the stock units will vest in August 2016, the other half in August 2021.

His salary and performance bonus, about $900,000 each, made up much of the rest. He also made $16,520 from company contributions to a 401(k) retirement account and company-paid life insurance premiums.

In comparison, Jobs accepted a $1 annual salary for years and owned about 5.5 million shares, worth about $2.3 billion today.

In total, Cook has about 1.36 million restricted shares that haven’t yet vested and 13,754 regular shares worth a combined $580 million, the filing showed.

Cook’s award is well above that given to Philippe Dauman, the Viacom Inc. chief executive who led the top paid CEOs of 2010 with an $84.5 million haul based on a new contract that granted him shares and stock options.

Cook’s pay package was also valued at more than all of the next nine highest paid CEOs of 2010 combined, or about $356 million.

Apple said that its compensation goal is to encourage long-term results above short-term risk-taking, and the 51-year-old former chief operating officer won’t begin to reap the actual benefits of the stock award for another four years.

But Securities and Exchange Commission rules compel companies to book a share grant’s value in the year it is granted, making Cook’s whopper of a pay package unlikely to be beat.

Cook’s share grant was already known last year. The filing disclosed that the company also decided in November to raise his base annual salary to $1.4 million and double the bonus target for paid executives to 100 percent of their annual salary.

Apple said it raised the bonus target to keep its executive pay more in line with that of other technology and entertainment peers like Google Inc. or The Walt Disney Co.

The filing was released the same day Apple shares reached a new high in midday trading, briefly hitting $427.75 before falling back to close at $421.73.

The AP formula calculates an executive’s total compensation during the last fiscal year by adding salary, bonuses, perks, above-market interest the company pays on deferred compensation and the estimated value of stock and stock options awarded during the year. The AP formula does not count changes in the present value of pension benefits. That makes the AP total slightly different in most cases from the total reported by companies to the SEC.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/apple-ceo-cook-pay-could-lead-in-2011-with-378-million-pay-package-due-to-restricted-stock/2012/01/09/gIQA5QDamP_story.html

149 Comments

149 Comments


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[-] 4 points by Rico (3027) 2 years ago

Apple makes all it's products off-shore, and their consumer loyalty borders on religious fanaticism.

Apple could easily set up a US factory used to make every one of the latest gadgets then move the prior version off-shore (sans one or two features) to service the low end price sensitive markets. This would have very little if any impact on their profits because their fans will soon take pride in having the one that says "Made In the USA" because that would be an indicator that it's the absolute best. The loyalists would gladly pay a bit more, and Apple wouldn't suffer at all.

Apple's market share is dominated by young people such as those that fuel this movement. I suggest we petition Apple to move their pilot production on-shore under threat of boycott by the 99%.

Who's with me ? Click 'like' for agree, 'dislike' for disagree, then add a comment to bump the post.

[-] 4 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Way ahead of you, I already boycott apple. But it is a good idea.

[-] 2 points by TheGreedyCapitalist (47) from Long Beach, CA 2 years ago

We should protest the 99% (ourselves) to not buy Apple products until they move back here.

Once they lose profits they will listen, I know I am a business owner.

[-] 2 points by Rico (3027) 2 years ago

Added boycott to top post

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 2 years ago

That's precisely what I'm advocating. The boycott is what puts force behind the petition.

[-] 3 points by TheGreedyCapitalist (47) from Long Beach, CA 2 years ago

It is what will put force behind this movement.

No ceo is panicing over people with signs.

They will panic when they are losing money.

The 99% pick who is made the 1% by the products and services we buy. We can change it just by a visit to the store or any other business.

[-] 1 points by 50percenter (7) 2 years ago

Agree any CEO must be hit in the pocketbook. Boycotting products is the only way. It's funny seeing some of the Occupants strapped to the gills with consumer electronics complaining about the gov't helping them with pay of the student load debt they took on. Why don't you protest at your schools to have them lower tuition? Some liberal arts student complains that they cannot get a job. The gov't needs to quit subsidizing useless degrees.

[-] 1 points by TheGreedyCapitalist (47) from Long Beach, CA 2 years ago

The real battle starts with yourself and you neighbors.

You can buy just as good products at local small businesses made by small name manufacturers. Yes it will be more expensive but your helping to redistribute wealth to other areas.

The problem is no one wants to change their standard of living. They want others to change to accomidate theirs.

I agree with you 100%.

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

I love my Apple computer. It's the only computer I would be willing to pay for at this time. There's no way I'm going to boycott Apple and use Windows or Linux instead. Sorry. I need a good computer for my everyday work.

And, really, I have no problem with capitalism. I only have a problem with money corrupting politics. Get money out of politics and let companies make as much as they want. That's all I ask for.

[-] 1 points by TheGreedyCapitalist (47) from Long Beach, CA 2 years ago

I agree, great post.

We need to gather the like minded on this forum.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

Is it me or did we agree on two things now?

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Do you like beautiful sexy women? If so, we just agreed on three things.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

And you enjoy your mac so we're up to four.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Another thing to look at is the margins of their products. They aren't commodities that operate of 1-2% margins like food. I was a COO and I brought electronic production back to the US. It cost a little more for manufacturing labor, less for transportation, and I got quicker response to my customers and higher quality.

You can't manufacture low margin products here if the costs are significantly higher. But, if high margin products aren't manufactured here what chance do we have?

Apple could be a leader in repatriating manufacturing to the US.

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

i read an analyst report that AAPL's margins are 28%. glad you brought production back, that would be a wonderful trend. currency devaluation would help.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

As China's labor rates go up, and they are, and oil goes up and it is, it gets less beneficial to manufacture in China. They are starting to outsource, to other Asian countries, and that will grow. Our Chamber of Commerce has lobbied the Chinese hard not to raise labor rates or benefits and conducts seminars teaching the benefits and techniques of outsourcing to China and elsewhere.

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

yes. funny how the labor rates go up as the cost of housing goes up--correlation 1:1.... and somehow, there remains the unwarranted pervasive belief that increasing home prices are good, not destructive... and the ridiculously priced homes of present day, so dislocated from incomes, are even better... although clearly they have sapped the future spending power of the economy. same is happening in china, except the government has now taken actions to bring their property bubble under control, for fear of looking like the US in a few years.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Some steps, to be sure but whether they are adequate remains to be seen.

Real estate was falsely promoted as a risk free investment (had never gone down, could only go up and therefore refinancing to take the equity out was just free money to spend. We are now stuck with house that are way too big, and too costly to heat cool and maintain. That isn't easily fixed. Prices shrink but houses don't. It does set up the opportunity for multiple generation occupation, grandparents, children, grandchildren. I wonder why this is so common in Europe? Maybe for the same reason. Need to share the cost with more people?

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

amazing how nobody challenged that ludicrous assumption. in the early 80s tons of developers went bankrupt as california property prices collapsed when interest rates got so high. i expect the same forces to operate as we raise rates. i personally bought a house from a woman in 1999 for 10% less than she paid twelve 12 before, so i observed first hand. in switzerland homes are so expensive, and have been for generations, that almost everyone uses 99 year mortgages--i don't know what happens when they die--but in the us that would free up cash flow if we could amortize loans over that period. the multiple generation occupation is also very common in south america, but not due to high home prices, but rather abject poverty.

[-] 3 points by UncomonSense (386) 2 years ago

If the top tax rate was 90%, he would take home about $40 million.

If the top tax rate was 90%, there wouldn't be any economic crisis and real unemployment would be a few percent instead of 23%.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

90% tax? Assuming someone worked 40 hours a week - they would be working for the government 36 of those hours, and working for themselves only 4 hours. That is ridiculous. Why would Apple even want to get an employee into that tax bracket, since all they are doing is moving 90% of that salary over to Uncle Sam. "Hey buddy, we're going to offer you a huge salary to come run our company - of course, you are actually only going to take home 10% of it." Instead of paying him $340 million a year and getting taxed down to $34 million in take home...they'd pay him much less and the government would be no better off than they are now.

[-] 5 points by UncomonSense (386) 2 years ago

$34 million - $17,000 per hour - isn't a huge salary? LOL.

In three hours the guy would take home more than the annual US median wage. No way that's enough money to attract superior talent.

[-] -2 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Assuming that the tax rate is on some sort of sliding scale - then the company should just find the minimum amount they could pay him to get him to 34 million a year - and then just keep the rest for themselves instead of giving 300 million to the government.

[-] 5 points by UncomonSense (386) 2 years ago

If corporate profit is taxed at 50% (as it was in the 1950's, when the top personal rate was 90%), they'd pay $150 million to the govt.

Try not to be so stupid.

[+] -4 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Hahahahah... You are suggesting a 90% personal tax rate, and asking me not to be so stupid. That's awesome. Thanks for the chuckle.

[-] 5 points by UncomonSense (386) 2 years ago

Top income tax rates between 1945-1980 were 70-91%.

A little education goes a long way. You should try it sometime.

[-] -1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

Thanks for the advice. I decided to educate myself on the 90% personal tax rate that actually peaked during the 50s. What I found out was that the 90% was a marginal tax which mean only a portion of the income is actually taxed at 90%. I also found out that during the 50s, at the peak of tax rates, income tax made up about 7.5% of GDP, and in the early 2000s when the top tax rate was 35% it was about 7.7% of GDP. Even when Reagan cut the top tax rate from 70% to 28%, the average tax for the top 20% of the country went from 27.3% to 25.6%. Not a huge drop.

Wow. This education stuff feels good. Now I can be both educated and pleasant...Unlike you - educated and an asshole.

[-] 2 points by UncomonSense (386) 2 years ago

The portion taxed at 90% was the top income tax rate.

Tax revenue compared to GDP is irrelevant. Tax revenue compared to federal spending is critical.

In 1950, income tax provided 40% of federal tax revenue, the same as it does today. The difference is federal revenue from corporate taxes went from 25% in 1950 to 12% today and excise taxes are down 85%. Both of these were made up by massive increases in payroll taxes, from around 10% of federal revenue in 1950 to 40% today.

This is a massive shift away from tax on business profit to tax on individual labor.

Keep working on that education, you've got a looooong way to go.

[-] -1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

The fun thing about economics...or any other numbers for that matter...is we can argue back and forth about this percentage or that rate or whatever, and they are all numbers. We can continue to find support for our positions based on statistics. I think Mark Twain had something to say about that.

I would disagree that we need to match our tax revenue to federal spending. If we do that, then we will certainly need a 90% tax rate. Tax people at a reasonable rate and curtail unnecessary spending.

When it comes to economics, I will certainly agree that I have a looooong way to go. It isn't my forte, and I'll keep working on my education. You, however, might want to try working on that other thing.

[-] -3 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

This $340 million is not his salary. It's mostly in the form of Apple shares.

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

So what? It should still be taxed at 90%.

[-] -1 points by Apercentage (81) 2 years ago

I sure as hell wouldn't invest in stock if it was taxed at 90%...

[+] -4 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

That would mean that if I bought a share for 1$, I would have to wait for that share to be worth more than 10$ before I could pull it out and make a profit. That would make no sense. You have to remember that shares are bought and sold, not just sold.

[-] 2 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

That would create even more incentive for long term profitability, he'd have to really perform to cash in. :)

Capital gains tax is waaaaaay to low... :/

[-] -2 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

No, that would only mean that people would stop investing in shares and invest in other commodities instead. The only shares possibly worth investing in would be penny stocks. Already established companies are very unlikely to grow more than ten fold.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

I bet someone qualified would be willing to replace him for 10% of the pay in this economy... ;p

but yes, probably people would stop investing, the cost of capital would become prohibitively expensive, and Apple would no longer be able to raise money for profitable new projects like the next iWhatever.

Edit: I still think Capital Gains is too low tho... maybe 90% is extreme, but it could stand to go up a bit.

[-] -2 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

If someone is willing to replace him for 10% of his pay and is able to do it, I would suggest that person apply at Apple. I'm sure Apple would be more than happy to save some money.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

Ya, but you don't get jobs like that by dropping off a resume. You need to do some serious schmoozin' at prestigious country clubs where you have plenty of space to land your Gulfstream IV on the private island.

I'm just being a bit of a pest anyway, I mean clearly the guy does not need that much money, but if Apple Shareholders don't like it they can take it out on the directors at their annual meeting.

[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Apple is tuned like a fine violin. The shareholders are joyous. Believe me, they wouldn't want Balmer at the helm. And, just to be clear, that 340$ million is mostly in shares. Cook is one of the biggest Apple share holders. That means that if he doesn't do his job well, that big amount of money could evaporate.

[-] 0 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

Ya, they want to make sure he takes an active interest in the company like Jobs did for at least 4 years or whatever. Probably a smart move tying compensation to long term profitability, even if the numbers seem ridiculous.

Still don't think any of the 7 Billion people on this planet need that much money... but from a Business perspective, offering the potential for massive profits if he can ensure long term profitability of the company, is the next best thing to having a founder with his heart in it.

[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Of course, no one needs that much money. After a certain points, millions just become numbers. Who can even spend that much? It's probably just based on some mathematical calculation. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Not to me anyhow.

[-] 0 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

False. If you bought stock for a dollar, and sold it for $1.10, your after tax profit would be $.01, assuming you were i the top tax bracket.

On stocks and other "investment" transactions there should be a sales tax, just like there is on everything else. That would help dampen short term speculation and reduce high-frequency trading (which accounts for 2/3 of market volume).

[-] -2 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

If you bought stock for a dollar, and sold it for $1.10, your after tax profit would be $.01, assuming you were i the top tax bracket.

You might be right, but I don't understand your calculation.

It seems to me that if you pay 1$ for a share then sell it at $1.10 on which you pay 90% in taxes, this would leave you with 11 cents meaning that you would have lost 89 cents in the transaction. I might be wrong, are you talking about a tax only on the profits, i.e. only on the 10 cents? In this case, I guess you mean that if your shares go down and you pull out with a lose you wouldn't pay any taxes at all?

[-] 0 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

You only pay taxes on the PROFIT, and according to your tax bracket.

[-] 0 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

hold on there. each segment of income/compensation is taxed at different rates, the first 10k a low rate 10%, next 30 higher rate of 15%, next 40k even higher rate 22% and so on. there is no such thing as a "bracket"--the top rate at which a person is taxed is their "marginal tax rate."

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

[+] -4 points by FarIeymowat (49) 2 years ago

Taxes collected as a percentage of GDP have historically never been more than 21%, ever. Even when the highest tax rates were over 90%, only 18% was collected. Why? When tax rates are that high, money is removed from the private sector and really wealthy sit it out, or move their money out of our economy, causing jobs to leave too.

[-] 3 points by UncomonSense (386) 2 years ago

Bullshit. When taxes were 90%, we paid off the debt from the Great Depression AND WWII (120% of GDP in 1945), built a nation-wide infrastructure, had a huge thriving middle class AND the longest sustained period of stable economic growth in history.

[-] -3 points by FarIeymowat (49) 2 years ago

This may be true, but as a percentage of GDP, it was basically the same then as now. A massively growing population,(baby boom), and a massive amount of people entering the workforce and a massively growing number of people paying taxes and we could grow out of our debt. not so today.

[-] 3 points by UncomonSense (386) 2 years ago

More Bullshit. Comparisons to GDP are irrelevant, and low taxes on the rich historically correlate directly to the size of the deficit.

[-] 0 points by FarIeymowat (49) 2 years ago

Now that is bullshit. Overspending by corrupt politicians is the cause of our debt. Do you run your checkbook the way the lawmakers do? If so you would be in jail.

[-] 2 points by UncomonSense (386) 2 years ago

Of course politicians are corrupt. But it's not "just" politicians.

The reward system works like this: support those who give you money (corporations and lobbyists) with legislation that benefits them financially (govt. contracts, tax breaks, etc.) and they will give you more money.

Lobbying and political contributions are illegal in France. It's called bribery.

[-] 0 points by FarIeymowat (49) 2 years ago

The French have some smarts going for them.

[-] 2 points by username2011 (59) 2 years ago

I don't really care what the CEO makes, but I do care that Apple's components are made cheaply overseas and sold at inflated prices to a cult-like customer base that is so addicted to Apple's hype and phony "coolness" that they don't even notice or care when they're being screwed. Apple does make good products, but keep an eye on your wallet, the fine print, and your personal data. These guys are not the benevolent hipsters that they pretend to be.

[-] 2 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

oh yeah....... he's worth every penny of it and tons more

I'm so sure

[-] 1 points by Apercentage (81) 2 years ago

He totally is, paying that much to a CEO of the 2nd most valuable company in the world, which is sitting on 40 Billion + dollars in cash, and their stock is projected to only increase, makes perfect sense.

Its a drop in the bucket compared to the money Apple will make durring his time at the company.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

You know the future?

[-] 1 points by Apercentage (81) 2 years ago

No i don't but, If you follow the trends for the last 5 years, the stock will go up for every speculation, and every actual refresh of any of their product lines.

Apple has been a power house in the tech industry since they got steve jobs back from Next and it seems like Tim has learned enough from him to keep the company on track.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Exactly, even a 16 year old would have a hard time derailing apple's train.

[-] 1 points by Apercentage (81) 2 years ago

So for the foreseeable future Apple's value will continue to rise, So paying their CEO that much isn't to much of a big deal. Unless apple does something stupid, and stops rolling out great, desirable products, becomes a less desirable platform to develop apps on, loses its fantastic deals with the record companies, or stops being competitive the trends will most likely continue.

And from what I've read about Tim Cook, he seems to have a pretty good idea of Steve jobs vision for the company and great ideas on his own.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Neither would be paying a ceo 1% of that amount leave them in any worse position.

[-] 1 points by Apercentage (81) 2 years ago

Well yea, but the board of directors clearly believe he is worth the 380 Million they are giving him. they made 7.3 Billion dollars 3rd quarter of 2011, The money/stock the gave out to Tim is just a drop in the bucket as far as Apple's expenses go.

Yes you can always say someone would work for less and that would be better for the company. But, thats the mentality that leads us to send jobs overseas which is part of what this post is about ;). But that idea that someone will work for less doesn't apply to top business positions. Especially with a company with a market value of 390 Billion. Paying an experienced business man, who knows Apple in and out, and was close to steve jobs, and knows how he would have steered the company from this point, 380 Million dollars is almost negligible and a good investment on Apple's part.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

That's the kind of mentality that has voters thinking it takes DC being full of attorneys, wall streeters, insurance experts and all manners of vulgarly overpaid con-men, to run (over) the people with such a well lead government.

It's amazing anyone could begin to think the USA needs say, Mitt Romney OR Obama in the Whitehouse

Any way you slice it, 300 million is ludicrous for any mere mortal man who likely has a huge staff of people who actually work while he likely busts off maybe 10 hours a week.

[-] 1 points by Apercentage (81) 2 years ago

No its a completely different mentality. Thats business influencing polotics, this is business influencing business. Who is anyone, particularly you, to say that 300 Million is to much? His risk is higher than anyone who works below him, he makes MULTI billion dollar business decisions, CEO positions often have a high turn over rate, he definitely puts in more than ten hours a week, and like I've said before its one of the most successful and most valuable companies to date.

Yes if the company was doing bad, and accepted government money, and if Tim made awful choices I'd agree, thats way to much. But that is far from reality. Its the 2nd most valued company in the world, paying there CEO 380 Million, when they make 7 billion dollars profit, a quarter makes perfect sense.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Well, it's cool if we never agree that even 100 million, for any mere mortal, is absurd.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You insulted my wife!!!!!!

You know nothing!!!

About anything!!!!

You can not make sense!!!! You are insensible!!!!!!!!!

You are a fluke of the universe!!!!!

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

I'm glad you now have a purpose! To incessantly whine!

btw... I'll gladly pin a whining star on you, ok junior?

[-] 1 points by reckoning (53) 2 years ago

The OWS people love Apple!!

they wont do nothing.

[-] 0 points by username2011 (59) 2 years ago

"Won't do nothing" is a double negative...which means the same as "Will do something." And don't forget the apostrophe.

[-] 1 points by 50percenter (7) 2 years ago

I'm just not sure why executives continue to get these huge pay packages. Anyone can reduce costs in a company (i.e., layoffs, closing facilities). But, it takes someone with real skill to invest the cash or better yet return it to the shareholders in the form of a dividend. Apple is the biggest case in point with products that pretty much sell themselves. These consumer products (i.e., smartphones and tablets) are becoming simple (but expensive) commodities. Then Tim Cook will just an overpaid rack-jobber, as Android will surpass them in market share.

[-] 1 points by 50percenter (7) 2 years ago

Part of the problem with the whole Occupy movement is that there is no one leader that has stood up and rallied enough people are any key issues. What is misunderstood is that everyone assumes a fixed economic pie? Everyone's standard of living has up, but it's just that some business peoples have gone up faster. Money begets money. If you don't agree with someone's compensation, then don't feed their pocketbook by buying their products. Quit loading your homes up with cheap Chinese crap and buy local - skip Wal-ly world and check out your local mom and pop, smaller proprietors - people who will actually thank you for your business and keep the money in the community.

[-] 1 points by AmuroRay (45) from Seattle, WA 2 years ago

Steve Jobs talked about how Apple could bring factories, it primarily education. To many Americans go to 4 year universities and no body trains for technical schools. 90% of 2010 HS Grads are in four year colleges. Here are my major points. 1.) Protectionism - see "Henry C Carey - Harmony of Interest" 2.) Education - 100s of Union Owned Technical Schools (privatize a few government community colleges sell them to AFL-CIO, UAW, among others) 3.) Deregulation- In terms of cost of managing regultory compliance. Its near impossible to run a factory in America

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4849) 2 years ago

Apple's A5 chip is now being produced by Samsung in their Austin Texas manufacturing plant. Hopefully this is a trend. Many articles on google. www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2011/12/16/apple_s_a5_chip

[-] 1 points by Joeboy32 (72) 2 years ago

"company paid-life insurance premiums"...?.

first questions is, why doesn't the news speak about these types of benefits and why aren't globally profited corporations like "Mcdonald's" and "Wal-Mart" offering similar plans like this to co-workers who have worked for these corporations for more than ten to twenty years?.

And people don't like Apple for it's products, they love the way Apple's products "look" period. The logo and designs are what helps Apple sell their products like a** and tits in Playboy.

[-] 0 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

Its a bit more than that, but yup, that is where the competitive advantage comes from. They can sell inferior hardware because of the packaging and the OS is like a carrot on a stick. They have had some great innovations too, but I'm talking mainly about the computer hardware.

I'd use one myself but I hate the speed of the mouse... :/

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

A mouse? Wow, it's been a very long time since I used one. A good trackpad is so much better.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

haha you know, I once got used to that slow ass mouse on OS 7.6.1... but then I switched back to Windows, and now it drives me crazy.

Don't worry, if the PC World thinks the hot new trend is put a new backslash key by my left pinky, and cut the left shift in half (which I always use for caps) then probably I will pick up a Mac next time. I kid you not, there is only one laptop out of the 20 I looked at which did not have a split shift key, wtf?

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Mac OS had many problems before version X. That certainly is true. A split shift key? I'm not sure what you mean? I guess I haven't seen it. Seriously though, I couldn't go back to using a mouse. Using Apple's track pad with all the gestures is just so much faster and cleaner. I also set it on tap, so I never have to click anything. I just glide my fingers, then do single, double, or triple taps. You can set up all the gestures you want up to four fingers, and they work very very well. After two days of using my new MacBook pro I went back to my old G4 without gestures and it was living hell. The only time I ever plug in a mouse is if I want to play Zuma. The track pad doesn't work well for that.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

Track pad? I think you just mighta made a sale for Mr. Cook, I'm gonna check that out.

I seriously, just bought a $250 PC Laptop, not because was cheapest (tho it was), but because some moron decided that if I need high end stuff I have to deal with undoing all of my previous typing experience; and I said, nope I like my shift there, thank you, i'll take that one.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Try out one of the new Mac laptops for a bit. It might take a 30 minutes to get used to, but when you understand the power of the track pad and how it works, you'll never plug in a mouse in a laptop again. Honestly. I'm sure all PC's will have it soon.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

I'm actually gonna take you up on that, sounds sweet; and I'm glad to hear that Apple hasn't jumped on the "lets see what happens when we turn the shift key into two buttons instead... and make sure the less useful one is closer just to be extra annoying" bandwagon. Non-issue for new learners or hunt and peck people but, for me not so cool.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

I need a machine that doesn't crash and won't be infected by a virus. Reliability and stability are my biggest concerns when buying a computer, and that's why I use Apple computers. Every time I have to do a reboot, clean a virus, defragment my hard drive, or reinstall my system is wasted time and lost money. With my Apple machine, I never have to do those things.

Having Unix is also a huge plus.

I also enjoy the look, but the feel is even more important. My Apple laptop just feels so nice under my fingers. It's like I'm getting a massage as I type this.

[-] 1 points by Joeboy32 (72) 2 years ago

the "feel" is due to the "look".

would you "feel" the same if you banged Rosie O'Donnell versus Kristen Stewart. Most likely not.

Apple makes great products, don't get me wrong, but the designs are the key factor in how relevant they maintain themselves in the computer market versus all this other stuff your talking about.

Plus, I posted this on my "Macbook". lol.

I got the "white" one that is no longer on sale and call my laptop "whiteboy".

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

the "feel" is due to the "look".

No, it's two different things. I'm talking about how the keys feel when they are pressed. I'm talking about how the trackpad feels when you are using it. It's very comfortable because a lot of research is put into it and they use nice materials for the touch.

Design doesn't just mean look. It also means usability, software issues, etc...

I agree a lot of kids us Apple products because they simply think they look cool, but a lot of people also use them because they are reliable machines that are a joy to work with. I'm in the latter category.

[-] 1 points by Joeboy32 (72) 2 years ago

okay, dude. but, just because something feels great doesn't make it reliable. And all computers in general aren't made to be perfect. if they were, a lot of businesses would lose money.

by the way, Design "is" about looks and visuals and how people can interact with them. I actually agreed with your first post and I didn't mean to come off as if, I was disagreeing with you.

Mac forever and R.I.P. Steve Jobs.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

From my daily experience, there is nothing more reliable that a modern Mac.

[-] 1 points by Joeboy32 (72) 2 years ago

agree again.

i honestly, haven't had any issues with my Mac like I did with my PC. I use to have an "HP" then I sold that and bought a "Sony Vaio". The Sony was actually working well, but I got a Macbook and gave the sony to my sister.

And Adobe Creative Suite works wonderfully on Macs.

[-] 1 points by username2011 (59) 2 years ago

Apple, while portraying itself as a "hip" "counterculture" company, has always been as mercenary and ruthless as Haliburton, Verizon, or any other huge corporation that exploits cheap, overseas labor and over-charges and/or screws customers (remember when you had to buy a whole new ipod if the battery failed? Apple only changed that policy when they were embarrassed by activist online filmmakers). At least Haliburton does not pretend to be something it is not.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

The 378mil measures some part of the US job loss here in the US to China, where Apple manufactures its products.

Don't worry, though. There are some very sophisticated economic theories and folks with impressive degrees from top schools who have determined that by taking an immediate hit of US job loss and moving those jobs to another nation with a lower standard of living we will create more jobs here in the US. Yes, you heard correctly, the US will get back more jobs in return!

Although, it will take some time for these jobs in greater numbers to return because eliminating the jobs here is a quicker and easier process than what needs to transpire for those jobs in greater numbers to return to the US. Therefore, we must be patient.

What needs to transpire for those jobs to come back is explained by those folks with impressive degrees from top schools in numerous lengthy papers containing long and complicated equations and numbers and words and phrases that the average person doesn't understand. But don’t worry, there is a lot of money spent on developing the papers and as I mentioned above they're produced by some folks with impressive degrees from top schools.

And guess what! The numbers are in and it's starting to work!

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

It was quite disgusting to hear about how much this guy is getting paid to offshore American jobs. Although finding a US made computer, smart phone, or tablet is pretty much impossible, and absurd CEO pay has become an unfortunate staple in American business. Stockholders have slowly lost power over time, and this is remarkably apparent when we look at CEO salaries. It's time for something like a border tax equity act, raise the tax rates on the wealthy, and to restore stockholder rights.

[-] 0 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

Are you kidding me? His pay package is nothing but a massive package of stocks. He is not going to screw over stockholders because he is now one of the biggest ones.

As someone who owns some Apple stock, I love this move. There are about 950 million shares of Apple stock right now. Giving him a million of them dilutes each of our shares by 0.1%. And in return we now have someone running Apple who wants nothing more than the long term price of our stock to go up.

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Try to file a derivative suit against this compensation package & see what happens? Nonetheless, I'll agree, stock packages are better than outright compensation packages (although they should be treated as regular income for tax purposes, and they're not).

[-] 1 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Also 'Made in USA' isn't necessarily the 'absolute best' as far as manufacturing in concerned. Stuff like TPS, Taguchi methods, JIT, SMED etc are all Japanese ideas. Even with cars, Germans and Japanese have been doing a far better job than us

[-] 2 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

I'd rather have an American made product that is a 9, instead of a 10, even if it cost 10% more, than an import providing jobs for non-Americans...

especially communist workers

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Jobs went that route originally, it nearly sank the company. There are not enough people like you that will by a more expensive product.

[-] 2 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

They will buy them if there are no cheap imports available.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Protective tariffs? There is a general agreement that those made the Great Depression worse. I'm not sure you could get enough politicians on board with that idea.

[-] 2 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Nothing else will bring jobs, paying a living wage, back to our country that have gone overseas other than tariffs and telling the multi-nationals to go piss up a rope. CEO's will likely have to accept far less pay as well.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

I'm not an economist, so I don't know what would work. Your position seems to be one of isolation for the country, other nations will respond with their own tariffs hurting any exports we might have. We'd have to be willing and able to go it on our own. Part of our problem is a negative balance of trade, protectionism might make that worse.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

For well over 20 years, many at the top in their fields, have been telling Americans that the outsourcing of jobs must stop, no matter what measures must be taken.

We must produce our own durable goods and food.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

There must be just as many that push free trade and the removal of barriers. I agree we should not abandon our ability to produce goods, some industry should be kept as a matter of security.

We still need to obtain things from outside our borders though and that means trade. Tariffs only make trade more difficult, Smoot-Hawley tried that and led to severe unemployment.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Yeah, well it's obvious that the outsourcing approach has failed and makes absolutely no sense.

You do realize that the US feeds a large part of the world and it is a position that is not being used for the betterment of the nation, but, only a small handful of the multi-nationalist, correct?

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Outsourcing is working out quite well for the corporations and for the nations that get the jobs. Sort of a redistribution of money, against our own interests perhaps.

You are right about food, it may become the new oil as time goes by. Increasing demand could push prices up and give more benefit to us as a nation.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

It already is and has been for a long time. How many nation's populations would have starved to death without oil?

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Well i m not xenophobic like you. And it hardly matters what price Americans want to pay, the world at large would not pay those high prices. Our products will find no markets outside of US, production will fall, workers would be laid off, one way or the other.

[-] 2 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Hypocrite and jackass atagnonist

You sound like a xenophobic posing as a patriot

[-] 1 points by smartcapitalist (127) 10 hours ago

Really? A strong America that takes back whatever services and manufacturing jobs are there in the emerging economies will help them succeed. Do you even read what you write? Countries don't play nice. They protect their self interest.

[-] 0 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 2 years ago

Great Post Rico. Its almost off topic. But kinda not, yknow?


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: M a r t y r s for M i c r o c h i p s ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

:::::::::::Hundreds Threaten Suicide At Microsoft Supplier Plant In China:::::::::::

http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2012/01/10/hundreds-threaten-suicide-at-microsoft-supplier-plant-in-china/

-January 10, 2012-

By William McGuinness

SEATTLE, Wash. (CBS Seattle) – Some 300 Chinese Foxconn employees who manufacture X-box 360 machines said they would throw themselves from their Wuhan, China, plant if demands for lost wages were not met.

China Jasmine Revolution, an activist revolutionary organization with a name borrowed from the Tunisian revolt that set off the Middle East unrest, reported that employees made their demands for a wage increase for 100 employees on Jan. 2.

Management at Foxconn — the world’s largest contract electronics manufacturer and a crucial link in the supply chains of Apple, Dell, Nintendo and Song — responded with an ultimatum. Employees could quit with one month’s compensation awarded for each year with the plant or go back to working.

Many employees quit, but Foxconn allegedly dishonored the agreement and awarded former employees nothing.

Around 300 workers returned to the plant in an uproar, and staged their protest on the plant’s roof on Jan. 4.

Wuhan’s mayor intervened through hours of negotiations, walking them back from the roof’s edge until 9 p.m. when workers agreed to return to work, according to China.com.

In an email to CBS Seattle, a Foxconn spokesperson confirmed the “workplace incident” occurred but said the workers protested because the company planned to move the workers from one business unit to another on the same campus as a result of shifts in the production line.

“The welfare of our employees is our top priority and we are committed to ensuring that all employees are treated fairly and that their rights are fully protected. The operational changes that were the basis for this incident are being carried out in accordance with all relevant laws and regulations,” the spokesperson said.

A Microsoft spokesperson wrote CBS Seattle a statement saying, “Microsoft takes working conditions in the factories that manufacture its products very seriously, and we are currently investigating this issue. We have a stringent Vendor Code of Conduct that spells out our expectations, and we monitor working conditions closely on an ongoing basis and address issues as they emerge. Microsoft is committed to the fair treatment and safety of workers employed by our vendors, and to ensuring conformance with Microsoft policy.” ­

Foxconn came under fire in 2010 when workers successfully committed suicide in a plant that manufactured components for Apple. Then, Foxconn told media that it considered every worker’s life to be valuable while some plants required workers to sign contracts stating that they wouldn’t kill themselves.

Wired magazine... http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_joelinchina/all/1 ...was granted access to the factories, which installed nets that would catch anyone attempting to jump.

Touring the Longhua plant in 2011, Terry Gou, the chairman of Foxconn parent Hon Hai Precision, said suicide rates among workers in his plants were smaller compared to the country’s and added a country’s suicide rate typically climbs when its GDP does, Forbes reported.


::::::::1 Million Workers. 90 Million iPhones. 17 Suicides. Who’s to Blame?::::::::

http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2012/01/10/hundreds-threaten-suicide-at-microsoft-supplier-plant-in-china/

-February 28, 2011-

It’s hard not to look at the nets. Every building is skirted in them. They drape every precipice, steel poles jutting out 20 feet above the sidewalk, loosely tangled like volleyball nets in winter.

The nets went up in May, after the 11th jumper in less than a year died here. They carried a message: You can throw yourself off any building you like, as long as it isn’t one of these. And they seem to have worked. Since they were installed, the suicide rate has slowed to a trickle....

(((Continue Reading this article Here))) http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_joelinchina/all/1


[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 2 years ago

And yet we continue buying, and a quick look shows that most people in this movement of the 99% sees no problem with that.

"Installing nets to catch people trying to commit suicide."

Need we say more ?

[-] 0 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I really can't get behind this. Simply based on CEO pay and offshore production. So I looked into seeing whether Apple has paid it's fair share of corporate taxes. Seem like they have (relatively speaking). There are far worse corporate tax evaders. Costing the government $100 billion/year.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by FarIeymowat (49) 2 years ago

I like my apple stuff. Why would I give a shit what the CEO makes.?

[-] 2 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

You shouldn't care what dollar figure the CEO makes. You should care, however, how that dollar figure is made. You should care that Apple takes advantage of a market with a lower standard of living to make their product and then uses the US market, which has a higher standard of living, to sell it. I'm pretty certain that sort of behavior is destructive to the US standard of living and some of that destructiveness can be measured by the dollar figure the CEO makes.

We can't expect the US standard of living to stick around very long and for the US and its economy to remain the greatest in the world, or even great for that matter, if this is what US businesses (the job creators) do.

Call me a crazy patriot, but I'm just on America's side with this issue.

[-] 1 points by Apercentage (81) 2 years ago

I'd say im quite a patriot myself but, you still have to be realistic. Could you realistically manufacture consumer electric products like the ones Apple makes for an affordable price here in the united states?

The cost of a base iphone is around $180 USD to make. Could you imagine what it would cost built by american workers? Especially since most factory workers in the US are unionized. It would drive the price of their products through the roof and people wouldn't buy them.

Even though i would love the US to have a large manufacturing base (at least we still have the big three to manufacture in great times of war) its just not realistic for consumer electrics on the scale of Apple to be manufactured here in a globalized world.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

Fair trade policy - you want to sell your product on the US market, then your product needs to have been manufactured in a place with a comparable standard of living as the US. Free trade is great, but not if it's unfair. Unfair trade is destructive to the US standard of living.

We can't expect the US standard of living to stick around very long and for the US and its economy to provide the opportunity of the "American Dream" to its citizens if US business (the job creators) takes advantage of markets with a lower standard of living to make their products and then uses the US market, which has a higher standard of living, to sell them. I'm pretty certain that sort of behavior is destructive to the US standard of living

Call me a crazy patriot, but I'm just on America's side with this issue.

[-] 0 points by FarIeymowat (49) 2 years ago

The employees in the foreign countries working for apple are probably damn happy to have the job.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

I'm a patriot. I believe we should take care of America first. It's a strong and great America that is best suited to help others be happy around the globe.

[-] 0 points by FarIeymowat (49) 2 years ago

I don't disagree. However, don't we want the emerging economies to succeed? Maybe it is their time to wax and us to wane. Economically speaking.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

I'm a patriot. I believe we should take care of America first. It's a strong and great America that is best suited to help emerging economies succeed and have their time to wax, economically speaking. I don't believe America has to wane for emerging economies to wax. I believe America and emerging economies can wax simultaneously.

[-] 1 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Really? A strong America that takes back whatever services and manufacturing jobs are there in the emerging economies will help them succeed. Do you even read what you write? Countries don't play nice. They protect their self interest.

[-] 0 points by FarIeymowat (49) 2 years ago

That is my hope as well. I would prefer jobs staying here obviously. The world is a whole lot smaller now than it was 30 years ago however.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

That's not simply my hope, I really believe it and I believe in America. I'm a patriot. I believe we should take care of America first. It's a strong and great America that is best suited to deal with a world that is a whole lot smaller now than it was 30 years ago.

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Patriotism can be used to peddle any crap I guess and justify a stand that is as hypocritical as it is untenable. Bravo

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by FarIeymowat (49) 2 years ago

Right on! I'm glad you are a patriot!

[-] -1 points by HitGirl (2263) 2 years ago

I guess the FED will just have to expand the money supply again to keep up with all these high-paid CEOs. Not to mention their investments and the derivatives market.

[-] 1 points by nkp (33) 2 years ago

that makes no sense

[-] 0 points by HitGirl (2263) 2 years ago

A 378 million dollar pay package makes no sense.

[-] 2 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

No, it does...

The 378mil measures some part of the US job loss here in the US to China, where Apple manufactures its products.

Don't worry, though. There are some very sophisticated economic theories and folks with impressive degrees from top schools who have determined that by taking an immediate hit of US job loss and moving those jobs to another nation with a lower standard of living we will create more jobs here in the US. Yes, you heard correctly, the US will get back more jobs in return!

Although, it will take some time for these jobs in greater numbers to return because eliminating the jobs here is a quicker and easier process than what needs to transpire for those jobs in greater numbers to return to the US. Therefore, we must be patient.

What needs to transpire for those jobs to come back is explained by those folks with impressive degrees from top schools in numerous lengthy papers containing long and complicated equations and numbers and words and phrases that the average person doesn't understand. But don’t worry, there is a lot of money spent on developing the papers and as I mentioned above they're produced by some folks with impressive degrees from top schools.

And guess what! The numbers are in and it's starting to work!

[-] 1 points by HitGirl (2263) 2 years ago

I hope that was your idea of dark humor.

[-] 2 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

very dark. like the dark place America is going to if its citizens don't get a clue

[-] 1 points by HitGirl (2263) 2 years ago

No doubt we have been bent over and globalized, the media has been captured and turned against us, the money has been siphoned out of the middle class and the government coffers, our elections are flooded with special interest money...We are like people with sticks fighting a modern army, yet still we are more likely to prevail than not.

[-] 2 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

I'm very optimistic, just very sad that probably the only thing that will get the majority moving is real pain

[-] 1 points by HitGirl (2263) 2 years ago

That or a sale at Walmart.

[-] 2 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

Lol

[-] 0 points by Apercentage (81) 2 years ago

a 378 million dollar pay package makes perfect sense when you're the leading man at one of the most valuable companies in the world, and your company is sitting on 40 billion dollars in cash. Makes perfect sense to me.

[-] 0 points by HitGirl (2263) 2 years ago

It made perfect sense to Apple's board members too, and that is what's wrong with having too low of a top marginal tax rate.

[-] -1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

That makes no sense at all. His big pay is from Apple shares, not the fed. If Apple were to die tomorrow, his shares would go down as well. I'm not sure what the FED has to do with any of this. You brought them out of nowhere.

[-] -1 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 2 years ago

Good for him.

[-] 2 points by Rico (3027) 2 years ago

Yes, but the young people of this movement should recognize they made this man rich, and Apple makes all their products off-shore.

[-] 2 points by TheGreedyCapitalist (47) from Long Beach, CA 2 years ago

Absolutly right. Great post.

[-] -2 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

@Rico: Sorry.I don't think Apple needs to manufacture onshore. In another post on this forum, I sort of gave a rough estimate that the costs would go up anywhere from $60 to $100 ($100 would be a very extreme case). Why? Because other than just the direct labour costs (which is $7 per iphone) they would also have to factor in the cost of real estate which is higher here, the cost of hiring American managers, imports of various raw materials from Asian countries etc. And don't forget US is not the only market for Apple. What if every country where Apple sells products start demanding local manufacturing? It would make things very costly.

Instead, let the market prevail. Let there be specialization of labor.

[-] 1 points by AmuroRay (45) from Seattle, WA 2 years ago

You should read the Steve Jobs bio

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

As a matter of fact I did. In fact, I had pre-ordered it as soon as it was available for pre-order. And not just that bio, I also read Icon, the other book about Jobs.

[-] 1 points by AmuroRay (45) from Seattle, WA 2 years ago

The Issac one was better.

Did you read what he said to Obama?

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

during that meeting along with other tech industry guys?

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

"Instead, let the market prevail."

Yes, let's have a race-to-the-bottom with our standards of living.

Because the whole point of competing economic philosophies is...

...to find the one which nets the lowest standard of living for it's participants. (or maybe it's which one nets the highest standard of living. I don't know)

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

rhetoric... duh

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

blinded by models...duh