Forum Post: Anyone on Unions?
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 31, 2012, 10:46 a.m. EST by kingscrossection
(1203)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I'm just wondering what OWS thinks about Unions and if there is already a posting on it feel free to direct it to me.
My personal views are that they had a place way back when no one had any rights and the working conditions were terrible and people were working 18 hours but now they serve no purpose other than to drive prices of this country up.
So if "My personal views are that they had a place way back when no one had any rights and the working conditions were terrible and people were working 18 hours but now they serve no purpose other than to drive prices of this country up. then this is the explanation for soaring energy prices? So then if unions don't negotiate wage increases for their members energy costs will stabilize? Energy costs are a MAJOR factor inflationary factor.
I would advise you to move to coal mining country and work for a non-union mine.
You will change your thinking.
LIsten I don't say they didn't have a purpose but that purpose has been served and they don't do much of anything any more.
Get a real "working" job and then get back to me.
This attitude that they have served their purpose has been pushed by entities like CATO for many years.
It's false.
yes they do they steal money from workers so the bosses can live fat. i worked at ups (teamster) in college. when we went on strike the "strike fund" had $0--when I started there the union claimed to have a $20 Billion strike fund... things that make you go hmmmmmmm.........
Why the hell would a business want a strike fund?
the teamsters union, and every other union, maintains (or claims to) a fund to pay workers when/if they go on strike. it's standard practice but at ups (teamster) it was empty when it was needed.
Is UPS a union?
yes, the employees are mandatory teamsters.
Unions are the disease of America. Don't you knee grows know that???
I'm tellin' mom, you're on the computer instead of doing your homework!!
You feel this way because you , like mule, refuse to move forward.
It's why you continue to use the CATO propaganda line.
Union YES!
Why Unions yes? What is your reasoning.
Unions protect much more than wages.
There's health and safety, benefits, contract enforcement, overtime distribution, and more.
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It's quite funny that ALL the "BOTS" here carefully avoid to speak of the 1,000,000LB Gorilla of the UNION biz today, the PUBLIC-UNION.
Private unions are dead, and have been dying since the 1960's, today they're largely gone, but while the private unions like coal-mines may have peaked in the 1930's today the public unions have skyrocketed in power and influence.
The California public employee prison union is the most power union in america, so powerful that the average guard in cali makes over $100k/year.
Yes its tough being a gendarme, hangman, or sodomist for the public prison industry, who might hurt his back, or be insulted at an OWS protest, heavens knows our cops work hard and have to put up with shit.
Who the hell protects the cops when they're sued by an OWS victim? Why the public employee cop unions use their money ( tax payer dollars ) to defend their officers from the nasty filthy private citzenry that likes to photograph cop's just doing their job spraying kids in the fact with CN/CS gas.
Yep, its tough being a cop, or any kind of member of the USA police-state and god knows that without the public employee unions, these wouldn't be the best paying jobs in america today.
cops are union also else they would be paid minumum wage.
Cop unions only exist to keep cop's out of jail when they destroy the lives of the citizenry. The cop unions in any city always hire the best and most ruthless lawyers available.
Cop Unions only exist to defend cops when then criminalize the citizens.
Forum Post: SOLUTION: Raise the minimum wage to $110,000 per year
Posted 4 hours ago on Nov. 10, 2011, 3:49 p.m. EST by DemandTheGoodLifeDotCom This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The problem in society is income inequality. So the ONLY solution that will fix it is income equality.
We produce $15 trillion in income each year which is enough to make every worker wealthy. If that income was allocated equally, for example, it is enough to pay every full time worker $135,000 per year.
That's right, the average income in the U.S. is $135k. And that is more than what 97% of all workers make. That means 97% of all workers make a below-average income. That is simply not fair and the root cause of all our problems.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/solution-raise-the-minimum-wage-to-110000-per-year/
Wow, you are an idiot.
During the '90's despite having a few rogue cops, the NYPD was the most professional police department in the tri-state area. Their marine unit was even more professional than the USCG. In contrast, the Port Authority Police was the the most unprofessional, most over-paid, and under-worked police department in a 50 mile radius.
FUCK the DEMOCRAT&REPUBLICAN party, both must be destroyed
I think if you go to any city in America and look for a 'port authority' you will find a fat, lazy, donut eating largess of humanity eating at the pig trough and voting with the democratic party.
That said the Pug's ( Repuglicans ) simply want to privatize the largess, and do with law-enforcement what AMA has done with medical, .e.g. turn it into a cash cow,...
The thing is medical needs to return to the people, and the people once again need only trust the local sheriff, who fears his neighbors.
Post civil-war USA, things can return to the simple-life, until the WASH-DC will continue to create pig-troughs to control the Nazi Empire it has created to control the people and extort their wealth. But now the entire world has said 'enough' to the USA empire and dollar will collapse and all these assholes eating at the FEDERAL/STATE trough will have to starve, ... its a good thing, ... its a human thing, and its about time.
FUCK the DEMOCRAT&REPUBLICAN party, both must be destroyed
They also extort companies for more money when they want more money.
That's patently false.
Negotiated contracts, are agreed on by both sides.
REAL extortion, was preformed by WallStreet against congress in the run up to TARP.
From them? It was pay up, or we crash the whole thing.
I would have called their bluff.
You are giving Congress too much credit here. Really, it was more like-- "Remember all of that money we gave you when you were running for Congress? Well, we are kinda in a jam, so you're going to bail us out, right?" "You'll give it back next election, right?" "Of course!!"
Now more than in a long time, Unions are needed, but unions have to change too. The big difference between when Japan was doing well, and when unions started to contract in this country was their unions knew that they had to work with the companies to put out a superior product at a competitive price. This kind of collaboration was slow to come to this country, and that fact caused a lot of back-lash against unions. The other difference between good unions and bad is the training of the workers. Companies want to concentrate on their business, not training. The good unions will often take over this burden from the company which is happy to let them do so. By taking over this burden, they increase their leverage come contract negotiation time. Companies also have to have the ability to get rid of non-productive workers.
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There was a mining union that wanted more than around $20 an hour with living expenses and medical paid for as well. The company employing them asked to take a dollar off an hour or something like that and they went apeshit. They refused to work and eventually burned down the housing they had been provided because the company refused to budge(my kind of people) Is this reasonable or not?
Kingscrossection, at this point in your life you have not the experience to form an opinion on unions other than the one you perceive via the printed word. Some here may not understand that you are speaking from less than actual experience.
You neglect to inform the reader of what state this mine is located, what type of mine it is among many other things yet ask for a response as to what is reasonable.
May I ask how many miners of any type do you personally know? What do you know of their living conditions? Or of the health risks they are exposed to?
I know miners, have been in their homes...again, what type of mine etc?
Then what was my point?
You wish me to belabor the obvious?
Please.
You attempt to make the point that your lack of experience is in no way a hindrance to the validity of your opinions. My point is that lack of experience is a hindrance to those opinions as you have nothing to base those opinions upon, excepting the opinions of others.
Attempt to use that theory in the process of obtaining a job then you will gain the experience that it is faulty reasoning.
It's very difficult to bring understanding to those who have never witnessed the reality pre-union, hopefully this difficulty will continue because the alternative is unthinkable.
No you missed the point that bacon is actually good for you contrary to some beliefs.
As I said, you missed the point. Bacon being good for you or not good for you was not the intent. Simply you can not choose to like or dislike bacon without experiencing bacon.
But it was a nice try to change the direction.
No but you can decide whether or not bacon is worth trying.
One of the things we discussed previously in a quieter format, at this point you are belaboring the point.
By the way, if your nose can't tell you if bacon is worth trying, then I think maybe you have sinus issues.
I would gladly work if I could get a job. After that I'll report back to you.
Ok, and since you are so anti union, make sure it is a nonunion job, please keep in mind that generally management is not unionized, so management positions are not on the table for this experiment.
The entire point of my reply is that you are not currently in a position to take a stance on unions, pro or con as it is your age that disallows you the experience so many of us have.
And what is wrong with reading about them and formulating an opinion?
It's like reading about bacon and deciding to never try eating a piece. Some things you can read about, gather information and form an opinion, other things need to be experienced before one is informed.
Except there is quite a bit about bacon that is good for. For example, bacon has been found to boost the intelligence of unborn children because of the fact that it contains choline. Choline is also know to protect against heart problems. As to nitrates and nitrites, if you don't overcook it then you don't get anywhere near as many. Incidentally, vitamins C,D, and E neutralize these. All found in a glass of orange juice that normally accompanies a meal with bacon. 45% of fat in bacon is mono-unsaturated. The same fat found in olive oil, oleic acid. Pigs are now being fed grain that boosts their levels of Omega-3 acids that lowers the risk of heart problems, high cholesterol, and improves circulation. Bacon fat is also being turned into a low polluting bio-diesel at TMI Foods in Northampton, England.
See, even a simple analogy and you managed to miss the point.
Oh I got the point but you missed mine
Not hardly.
You presume much. Often too much, but that is youth.
Then there was that non union mine that collapsed killing many, after being cited 100s of times by OSHA.
They all laugh at OSHA, and take chances with lives every day.
Union YES!
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"extort" is a crime.
How many union men, negotiating for what they want - give me the names and dates of those arrested, tried for extosion , convicted prisoners.
You never went to your boss's office and demanded a raise?
Virtually every "labor movement" criminal has been an anti-union goon who beat or murdered union men peacefully picketting.
its amazing how your kind can't present an argument without redefining words : liberal is commie is red is evil; war is peace; mission accomplished
all orwellian bs
you are an Rs
UNIONS HAVE NO BENEFIT TO ANYONE EXCEPT
There has never been a major fatal coal mine disaster in a unionized mine
full disclosre:
honestly, I heard this in a debate - I believe its true - I do not know its true
Unions need to be torn apart and done away with. There is no place for them in this country anymore.
But you do admit that they served a purpose?
At a point in time when there were no federal regulations on employers, yes. Now? No!
You're right. Its completely laughable
you are so off base.. its the 3 million a year management that drives up the prices.. why do you blame it on the people that make less than 50k? you think its ok for a few men to make 3 million a year. that doesn't affect prices??? no.. its managment pay and bonuses that cost.. not everyday people.. and if you dont believe it.. then why.. when workers are asked to take a 30% cut in pay to save a company,.. there is not mention of management taking a 30% cut? only talk of if you get them to agree.. you will get a 5 million dollar bonus this year thats why there has to be unions!
There is the fact that I know of an auto mechanic that gets 90% of his base pay when he isn't working. Seems like if everyone got 90% for not working then the union would have to pull in money which would drive up the prices of the products.
management gets 100% of their pay when they are not working and they make millions a year, not 50 or 60 that a mechanic makes.. which one is costing the company more??? that doesnt count though i suppose and the company jets.. lounges.. company paid trips and health clubs and so on none of that contributes to the cost of doing business.
But you see...management has to go through the dangerous, grueling, skill-intensive task of...using Excel! Obviously, you peons who are merely performing physical labor have no rights to a decent wage, because these guys can add numbers on a spreadsheet, talk to other people on a phone, and do other highly intensive, danger ridden office tasks. Sure, you can die in a cave-in, but the managers have to be fearful of the dreaded PAPER CUTS that can come from nowhere!
I agree overall. What really gets me is forcing people to join/pay dues to the union. Now, that is not right. Join a union if you want. If you don't want to, you shouldn't be penalized.
Also the fact that some get pensions 90% of their base pay for 4 years. Thats more than members in our military.
and way less then retired congress.. and you pay that ...
Not really relevant right now is it?
insofar as unions are not relevant to economic collapse, corporate bankruptcies, or political corruption then yes its just as relevant.. it has to be pointed out that the propaganda of trashing unions is just a diversion from what the real problems are
You seem to be diverting.
your argument sounds like a diversion
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Prices continue to rise faster than labor and energy. Why? Well you seem familiar with the effects of wage inflation but that isn't the only type of inflation. Credit introduces more cash into the system, diluting it and devaluing it. This is a form of inflation. So yes, unions are needed to speak up about keeping wages relative to general price inflation. If they did a better job of that, we would have more people buying goods and the economy would be fine. Now as far as someone with a high school education raking in $100,000++ annually for assembly line work and union fees that pay jacked up wages for union suits, I think we have had just about enough of that.
I do agree with you.
Ever work an assembly line?
A REAL one?
I have, and I know your comment is full of it.
yes i have. it's a harder version of working in fast food.
stupid people don't deserve money
here are some union subjects
http://occupywallst.org/forum/forum-topics/#comment-300633
Ok there was a plethora of information and I'm not sure where you stand. Some said against but it seemed to me that more said for.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/you-troll/#comment-355016
Well Your PERSONAL VIEWS are DEAD wrong!!
Righties, Republicons and their CORPORATE (1%) employers have returned us to the days when everybody knew we needed unions, equal rights, a square deal, and a level playing field.
We have lost ALL of that.
Now we have to start all over again!!!
Let's learn People!!!!
Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!
You know who Carnegie was back when we had the unions going on?
So, let me ask this.
If the folks who feel so stongly that unions are not needed, why are there complaints about "wage inequality"?
Unions solve that problem - everyone makes the same regardless of how much or how little they produce
Everyone is complaining about the "evil rich" corporations. How many of you have actually worked for a union compnay.
I can say this for sure - none of you who dispise unions have never worked union.
For if you have you will have healthcare insurance, money in the bank and a decent paying job and work a 40 hour week.
And if you work more then 40 hours you will get paid either time and one half or double time depending if it's on a weekday or weekend.
Complaining about unions and complaining about "not being paid a decent wage" is sort of "dumb" don't you think.
Now that is not to say that some things about unions could be changed such as a person being laid off making 80% of their wage. So I ask you, would you complain about it if you were receiving it?
That's my point exactly. All this talk of unions being evil or extortionist or whatever else you want to call it basically amounts to "we all got screwed and you're still getting a fair compensation package through the union. Therefore, instead of attempting to fight for collective bargaining rights so that we have a shot at regaining what you have we're going to fight you tooth and nail so that we can all be screwed together." It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
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anyone for unions? sure, the union hierarchy which lives off the forced union dues. they use the money for political power.
So corruption runs rampant? I always knew it.
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You are so correct. Unions just want your union dues so the rich leaders can drive around in limo's smoking cigars, buying hookers and whining. If unions were so great,,,, EVERYONE would have joined one. Not the case. You nearly have to put a gun to someones head to force them into a union. If you belong to a union you need a group so you have some type of backbone.
Its a whole strength in numbers. The pensions they get paid is a tad absurd.
If the strength was in numbers then they fall very very short on those numbers, hence, nobody wants to join one. They have no stength.
I would love to set up a union so i can collect the dues. plus it would be fun to ruffle the feathers of a certain industry I have in mind.
And that sir, is exactly the reason they are not good for this country anymore. If you are being sarcastic then I apologize to you.
Unions need to go and they no longer serve any purpose. They bankrupted States and are corrupt. Some say Gov Walker is doing the wrong thing but he should be given a medal for what he is doing. Would like to see someone like him become President.
and have your kids teachers making 10 bucks an hour? no thanks
I mean if someone's kid is worth 10 bucks an hour, then yes, that is what they should be paid. I would hope most people would encourage their kids to acquire some useful skills though so they can make more.
i meant that without unions... teachers would make 10 bucks an hour
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Folks got to learn to define shit here.
Private unions are good, .. coal mining, ... you know people who do real work.
But unionization of cop-shops, prisons, water-boarding freelancers, CIA torture clones, ... these guys NEVER needed to unionize, and yes they have bankrupted the States,
But it gets worse today in California the Public Employee Prison UNION is the most powerful LOBBY in the CALIF, MORE powerful than AIPAC, and that's saying some serious fucking shit.
Yes I agree private unions are good but all others need to go
Now isn't this FUNNY, you got a negative 25, and I'm negative 21, ... WHY? Somebody might ASK?
Cuz we oppose the #1 mission of project OWS, ... OWS is owned by the public employees unions, and its mission is to re-elect Obama 2012 to protect their fucking job's.
We the fucking taxpayers are fucking ourselves courtesy of some assholes in Canada running the OWS, because it would be illegal for the CIA to run this shit from US soil,
You are negative because your thinking is profoundly so.
If this was run by the CIA, you would have already been disappeared.
Or are they coming for you now???!!!!!
Hurry...............RUN and hide!
COINTELPRO: Always run both sides of the debate, ... this is how the business of America stay's in business.
What I said is that the adbuster.com boyz run from Canada because it would have been illegal for the CIA to do this shit from USA soil. It's called 'denial'.
With regards to 'disappear', IMHO the goal is protest fatigue, to convince the USA public couch potatoe that all protesters are losers, and/or idiots, and/or vandals, ... and I would say that OWS/adbusters has 100% mission success.
You got that right and if you do not agree 100% with the libs on here they curse you and give you bad feedback. This is probably about my tenth ID now and I keep on getting slammed for telling the truth
I definitely agree with you. The whole system is insane. I know of a guy that was two years out of high school making $150,000 a year working as a car builder.
There is some city unions workers in Ill, NY and many other States that are making big bucks. Some guy riding on the back of a garbage truck can make over 150,000 per year. I do not even make that much as a business owner. Unions love lazy workers because they can bleed the system even more
maybe cause waste management is a lot more necessary than your business
Is it me or is the system socialist?
It's just you, Rush, and the rest of the dittoheads.
You know, the folks that think Democracy=socialism.
Folks that can't move beyond thinking in black and white.
Please go back to BOT school, and learn a different response than RUSH this or that RUSH is boring and your BOT feedback loop needs a tune up and bad.
Whatever you say.
derp, derp.
Be afraid, be very afraid of any word with, social, in it.
seems socialist