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Forum Post: another school shooting today - no deaths

Posted 1 year ago on Jan. 10, 2013, 2:08 p.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

a boy took a shotgun into school & shot 1-2 maybe one student one teacher NONE DEAD

20 Comments

20 Comments


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[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28314) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Most of these shootings - at schools and at individual homes comes down to one thing - improper securing of the firearm used - when that fire arm is used by someone other than the owner.

Yes there really is no need for guns to fire rapidly 10 shots or more - just by pulling a trigger. They really should not be able to fire like more then 3 without needing to be reloaded and those 3 rounds need not be auto-matic at the pull of the trigger but could require a cocking between each round fired.

But the main problem is the fire arms being properly safely secured when not in use.

Murders will happen regardless of gun ownership.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free ... en.wikipedia.org/.../List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate See also: List of countries by intentional homicide rate by decade. List of countries by intentional homicide rate per year per 100,000 inhabitants.

I copied the above link as it does not go into homicides by type of weapon - just shows homicides by country.

Notice that the USA really is not the murder capitol of the world.

But take into account - those countries that top the list are seriously screwed in the running of their societies = SERIOUSLY SICK SOCIETIES

Note - that areas where the population is treated poorly by their governments and the businesses allowed to operate there - are the highest murder rates.

As a society fails ( and currently the USA is failing ) it's people - crime and violence rise in that society.

The cure for violence is a healthy society that looks for ways to make a healthy environment for ALL - not for the FEW.

[-] 1 points by KevinPotts (363) 1 year ago

ATTENTION Gun Debaters…Please Read This Entire Article…‘The Riddle of the Gun’ By Sam Harris
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

demand a plan:

http://www.youtube.com/user/maigcoalition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Za8SOVuGHs&list=UUu4Q7iE0z1Jw7yUjs56dvXA&index=1

alex jones – without his straight jacket!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZvMwcluEg&feature=endscreen&NR=1

WRITE CONGRESS:

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_contact_senators.htm
VP Joe Biden, Gun Panel, 1600 Pennsylvania Av, Washington DC 20006


Dear ............................:

[ _ Y.O.U.R...I.N.T.R.O...H.E.R.E_ ]

While some people may want to confiscate guns, here is a much more feasable approach. It will not solve all gun problems, but it will reduce the number of guns and will reduce the number of dangerous people who have access to guns - and isn't THAT our real goal?

Please consider advocating these four steps below to help America with our gun disasters:

My proposal - for a NATIONAL gun law for all guns & owners:
My four points are SIMPLY based on seeing a logical parallel between cars & guns.

1
all gun owners must be licensed & tested with all guns they own and pass a written test.

if you own a motor cycle, a dump truck, and a car - you are tested in each
a written gun test - to guarantee the owner's understanding of gun laws
being forced to know the law - via the test - means the police know who you are -
and you may be less likely to commit a crime

2
every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance &
be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used.

insurance should be at least as high as car insurance [ I would like at least $1,000,000 ]
you must prove your car insurance
annual back ground check to verify your suitability to own guns
every gun must be locked in a gun case or have a trigger lock

3
as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.

you are required to report if your gun is missing within 48 hours
the owner will be much less likely to leave a gun accessible to a family member or thief

4
every gun must be registered and tested & a sample fired bullet stored by the police

knowing that your gun & its bullets are so easily traced will make you think before using it

peripherally-

Gun fees should be high enough to create a very substantial gun buy-back program

Penalties must be very high in money & jail time - especially after the first offense

No citizens ( except dealers & real collectors ) need more than a small number of guns

Gun fees should be higher for more guns.

The nra fighting against this - will be balanced by the insurance companies fighting for it

But the nra may be in favor of this when the gun companies understand that a gun owner
can get paid to turn in their old gun and will be able to buy a new gun -
with an INTEGRATED lock .

If we legalize drugs, we will clear out jail cells to fill with gun law breakers and
free up police "time" for real crime investigation

I am fundamentally NOT opposed to confiscation, but we WILL get higher compliance
and lower opposition if we use high fees & buyback. Take a position of reducing guns,
like assault weapons such as semi-automatic rifles -
rather than punishing a gun nut who spent $10,000 on an armory.


Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:

Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned ; 2.97 homicides
Per 100,000: England…: 6,200 guns owned ; 0.07 homicides
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned ; 0.14 homicides
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned ; 0.51 homicides
Per 100,000: France…..: 31,000 guns owned ; 0.06 homicides
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned ; 0.08 homicides
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned ; 0.90 homicides


Clearly the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.

More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.

When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted.
There has not been an incident in Australia since then.
Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.

For 2011, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1

For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9

In 2011, there were 11,000+ gun homicides in America
In 2011, there were 35 gun deaths in England

The 1994 gun "ban" did not ban assault weapons.
It banned the MANUFACTURE of assault weapons.
That is why so many people are buying AR15s before "Obama bans guns"

[-] 0 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

While I agree with a couple of you ideas in the letter, I doubt many gun owners will register their guns. I'm not against training, and most gun owners already train to various levels. Gun training is a cottage industry. Some training is almost like military combat training.

I think the gun grabbers greatly underestimate the resolve of honest, middle class gun owners to not be punished for owing guns..

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Then it might behoove the honest middle class gunowners to start making concessions where it is obviously necessary. Doncha think?

Because the NO, NO, NO will not get it.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

How many citizens risk driving unregistered cars?
Make the registration fee for 1-2 NON-SEMI-AUTOMATICS fairly low - $100
For more, a much higher number
Owning an unregistered gun -> a manditory jail sentence

[-] 0 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

Why? What would accomplish? How would it decrease crime. I also maintain millions, maybe tens of millions will never register their guns. They will go to jail first; or maybe even fight.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I'll post it again:
Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:

Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned ; 2.97 homicides
Per 100,000: England…: 6,200 guns owned ; 0.07 homicides
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned ; 0.14 homicides
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned ; 0.51 homicides
Per 100,000: France…..: 31,000 guns owned ; 0.06 homicides
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned ; 0.08 homicides
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned ; 0.90 homicides

[-] -1 points by bigjoe (-117) 1 year ago

So you think disarming 80 million law abiding gun owners will make difference? Takng honest, law abiding citizens guns won't change a thing. Well, maybe it cause more people to get killed because they can't defend themselves

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

where did I say "disarm" ?
where did I say "taking guns" ? was the owner of the shotgun used today a "law abiding citizen" ?
I believe the OWNER should be criminally and financially liable for what this child did. Unless the child broke into a locked " gun restraint system"
How do YOU explain the multi-nation statistics that makes America the bloodiest ?


There have been 62 massacres (4+ dead) in America in the last 30 years
Do you know how many were stopped by an armed civilian ?

OF COURSE YOU KNOW
you are just afraid to tell us

[-] 0 points by ivyquinn (167) 1 year ago

All of your info is correct and this plan would be a reasonable change to our system.

However, AR15'S aren't even assault rifles. They use the same .30 cal ammo used by other one shot, one kill guns.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

The term "assault rifle" is somewhat poorly defined.
A better term is semiautomatic which means one trigger pull loads the next bullet and can easily fire 50-100 as fast as you can pull the trigger.

[-] 1 points by ivyquinn (167) 1 year ago

Exactly.

What the government is seeking is the clip. But that opens the door for guns to be banned. I personally like your plan better.

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Have you ever tried to fire 50 or a 100 rounds in a semi automatic firearm? And if you have tell me what you have experienced in doing this.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I found many sites that explained my estimate was very low.
400/minute - as fast as you can flex or finger and 900/minute with certain addons.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

You didn't answer my question - have you ever tried to fire 50 or 100 rounds in a semi automatic firearm in rapid fire.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

thank you for needling me ( you should have )
I hate it when people dont answer a simple question
no - I never have

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

I'm not needling you - there is a legitimate reason for this -

You see - if a person is not used to firing a semi automatic weapon for long periods of time to strengthen their hand and firing finger, by the time they ready around 30 rounds - some more - their hand starts to cramp up and the accuracy suffers.

So what usually happens is they stop shooting or if they continue shooting their aim is really thrown off.

That is the reason why our troops have automatic weapons with the capability to switch over to semi automatic when they need to for more accuracy.

Now as I said this does happen in most circumstances to indiviuals who do not have strong hands or aren't used to continually firing a semi automatic weapon with standard capacity magazines.

I have experienced this on several occasions because I don't shoot my semi automatic firearm very often - but when I do, I usually go through around 500 rounds per session.

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

I guess this guy - another student - part of the violent younger generation - wanted to get a last lick in before the gun bans.

And he used a "shotgun". So are we going to ban shotguns next?

We have a "sick youth society" that is very violent and needs to be delt with. If killing small children didn't stop this idiot from wanting to kill nothing will.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

All guns must be registered and LOCKED and carry liability insurance The last time I checked - the younger generation is worldwide